09 - Victoria Szpunberg i Nao Albet
Sala Beckett
ÀREA 44/45
09 - Victoria Szpunberg i Nao Albet
Benvingudes i benvinguts a Àrea 44-45,
Welcome to Area 44-45,
el podcast de la revista Pausa de la Sala Bequet.
the podcast of the Pausa magazine from the Bequet Room.
A l'episodi d'avui posem l'accent a l'escriptura teatral,
In today's episode, we focus on playwriting.
que segurament és on s'articula la majoria del teatre
that is surely where most of the theater is articulated
que podem veure actualment.
that we can see currently.
I és per aquest motiu que hem reunit a dues persones
And it is for this reason that we have brought together two people.
que porten temps escrivint per l'escena.
they have been writing for the stage for a long time.
Avui ens visiten la Victòria Spumberg,
Today we are visited by Victòria Spumberg.
que és dramaturga, directora d'escena i docent,
who is a playwright, stage director, and educator,
i ha escrit obres com La marca preferida de les germanes Clausman,
and has written works such as The Preferred Mark of the Clausman Sisters,
Boys Don't Cry o La font de la joventut,
Boys Don't Cry or The Fountain of Youth,
i ha dirigit obres de les quals també n'ha estat de la dramaturga,
and has directed works of which she has also been the playwright,
com La màquina de parlar, El meu avi no va a Cuba,
like The Talking Machine, My grandfather doesn't go to Cuba,
o un nou text que estàs treballant actualment, que estàs assajant,
or a new text that you are currently working on, that you are rehearsing,
que es diu El pes d'un cos, que podrem veure
it is called The weight of a body, which we will be able to see
al Teatre Nacional de Catalunya el mes de maig.
at the National Theatre of Catalonia in May.
I també ens visita el Nao Albet, que és director, dramaturg, actor i músic,
Nao Albet, who is a director, playwright, actor, and musician, also visits us.
i que hem vist créixer a la mà del Marcel Borràs,
and that we have seen grow at the hands of Marcel Borràs,
a qui li enviem una forta abraçada.
who we send a strong hug to.
I ells dos han escrit i dirigit obres com La monja enterrada en vida,
They both have written and directed works such as The Nun Buried Alive,
Los skaters, Atraco Pariza y muerte en Agbanaspach,
The skaters, heist in Pariza and death in Agbanaspach,
Mamón y Falzstaff, La muerte de las musas.
Mamón and Falstaff, The Death of the Muses.
Els noms són punyeteros, eh, cabrons?
Names are tricky, huh, bastards?
I el Nao, a part, l'hem pogut veure actuar amb directors com el Jan Lauers,
And Nao, on the other hand, we have been able to see him perform with directors like Jan Lauers.
l'Àlex Rigola, la Carme Portacelli o el Jordi Oriol, entre molts d'altres.
Alex Rigola, Carme Portacelli, or Jordi Oriol, among many others.
Primer de tot, us vull agrair que hagueu vingut avui
First of all, I want to thank you for coming today.
per poder actuar amb nosaltres.
to be able to act with us.
I també per poder activar aquesta àrea del cervell, la 44-45,
And also to be able to activate this area of the brain, the 44-45,
que és la que ens dona l'habilitat de poder parlar.
that is what gives us the ability to speak.
Moltes gràcies per ser aquí amb nosaltres.
Thank you very much for being here with us.
Gràcies a tu.
Thank you.
I m'agradaria començar aquesta conversa
I would like to start this conversation.
per entendre una mica quina és la manera d'escriure teatre
to understand a little about the way to write theater
que teniu cadascú de vosaltres,
what each of you have,
que crec que són formes d'escriptura
that I believe are forms of writing
on es poden veure diferències en termes gairebé de producció,
where differences can be seen in almost terms of production,
com per exemple tu, Nao, no?
like you, Nao, right?
Mentre que tu, Victòria, escrius sola
While you, Victòria, write alone.
o, per exemple, la majoria dels textos de la Victòria
or, for example, the majority of the texts of the Victòria
els dirigeix una altra persona,
they are directed by another person,
mentre que vosaltres, Nao i Marcel, no només els dirigiu,
while you, Nao and Marcel, not only lead them,
sinó que també els actueu.
but also that you act them out.
Per tant, quin és el procés més habitual
Therefore, what is the most common process?
que segueix la vostra escriptura
that follows your writing
des que apareix la llavor del projecte
since the seed of the project appears
fins que teniu el text acabat?
Until you have the text finished?
En quina es fa aquesta estructura
In which is this structure made?
si és que existeix com un denominador comú
if it exists as a common denominator
entre tots els textos?
among all the texts?
Començo jo?
Shall I start?
Sí, tant.
Yes, both.
Endavant, endavant.
Go ahead, go ahead.
Jo diria que en el nostre cas
I would say that in our case
no tenim una metodologia concreta.
we do not have a specific methodology.
Sempre és una cosa més intuïtiva.
It is always something more intuitive.
Sí que des d'aquesta intuïció
Yes, from this intuition
sí que es repeteix, crec, una màxima
yes, I believe a maxim is repeated
que és lúdica, diria jo.
which is playful, I would say.
Sempre busquem una espècie com de joc,
We always look for a kind of game.
una espècie com de gaudi
a kind of joy
en jugar, en actuar,
in playing, in acting,
en explicar aquestes històries.
in explaining these stories.
Sobretot, tot neix una mica
Above all, everything is born a little.
de passar-nos-ho bé.
to have a good time.
Tot neix com un hobby.
Everything starts as a hobby.
Quan érem adolescents,
When we were teenagers,
ens agradava el teatre
we liked the theater
i vam començar dient
and we started by saying
que a nosaltres no ens donaran mai
that they will never give us
un paper de mafiós
a gangster role
perquè tenim 14 anys.
because we are 14 years old.
Per tant, ens l'hem d'escriure a nosaltres.
Therefore, we have to write it to ourselves.
Escriurem uns mafiosos que tenen 14 anys.
We will write about some gangsters who are 14 years old.
I a partir d'aquí,
And from here on,
era una espècie de joc.
It was a kind of game.
Era dir que em ve de gust actuar.
It means that I feel like acting.
M'ho escric jo mateix.
I’ll write it myself.
I d'alguna manera, tot i que amb els anys
And somehow, even though with the years
segurament cada cop ens tornem
surely every time we become again
una mica més carrinclons
a little more old-fashioned
i el cul també el tenim més apretat,
and we also have our buttocks tighter,
però tot i així intentem no perdre
but even so we try not to lose
aquesta espècie de llibertat,
this kind of freedom,
o sigui, això ho fem per passar-nos-ho bé
I mean, we do this to have fun.
i per jugar.
and to play.
I una mica crec que és una màxima
And a little I believe it is a maxim.
que intentem que es mantingui, saps?
that we try to keep it, you know?
Que estigui allà.
Let it be there.
Diria jo, no sé, en el teu cas.
I would say, I don't know, in your case.
Victòria, tu.
Victory, you.
No ho sé, jo ara que hi parlava de l'adolescència
I don't know, I was just talking about adolescence.
a vegades penso que jo l'adolescència
Sometimes I think that I adolescence.
era una traumada, una persona molt
she was traumatized, a very
asocial i amb problemes
asocial and with problems
i que d'aquí ve tot.
And this is where it all comes from.
Jo voldria ser com el Nau
I would like to be like Nau.
i el Marcel, m'hauria encantat
And Marcel, I would have loved it.
quan era adolescent també ser com ells.
when I was a teenager I wanted to be like them too.
Amb l'edat
With age
estic aprenent a jugar més
I am learning to play more.
i tal, però en el meu cas
and so on, but in my case
l'escriptura ve de...
the writing comes from...
Jo crec que d'un...
I think that from a...
Potser dir-ho no des d'una transcendència,
Perhaps saying it not from a transcendence,
però sí que ve d'un dolor
but it does come from a pain
anímic, per què no?
mood, why not?
O sigui, no...
So, no...
És com que ens fa cosa parlar
It feels awkward for us to talk.
de l'escriptura com un...
of writing as a...
una fugida
a getaway
de la ferida, no?
from the wound, right?
Com una resistència de...
As a resistance of...
de voler viure en una habitació
to want to live in a room
que és teva
what is yours
i tenir por a sortir-ne, no?
And being afraid to go out, right?
Bueno, jo també vaig
Well, I'm going too.
estudiar d'actriu,
to study acting,
de ballarina i tal,
of ballerina and such,
però l'escriptura és el que més té a veure
but writing is what has the most to do with it
potser amb el meu tarannà, que és
perhaps with my temperament, which is
més introspectiu i és on m'he trobat
more introspective and it's where I've found myself
més lliure. Sí que m'agafo a
more free. Yes, I take it to
el mateix que diu el Nau per mi.
the same as Nau says for me.
És una utopia, la llibertat.
Freedom is a utopia.
Mai som lliures, però
We are never free, but
aquesta utopia produeix
this utopia produces
un goig addictiu
an addictive joy
i aquest goig
and this joy
jo el reconec a l'escriptura.
I recognize him by his handwriting.
Bueno, ara
Well, now
estic més saludable,
I am healthier,
diguéssim,
let's say,
anímica i mentalment, llavors dirigeixo
emotionally and mentally, then I direct
també i m'agrada molt,
I like it a lot too.
però em trobo més còmode
but I feel more comfortable
sola, escrivint,
alone, writing,
parlant amb altres, però que
talking with others, but that
són parts de mi mateixa,
they are parts of myself,
penso. I, per exemple,
I think. And, for example,
quan comenceu a escriure,
when you start writing,
sabreu si el text podrà ser representat
you will know if the text can be performed
o no? És una cosa de dir, vinga,
Or not? It's a matter of saying, come on,
comencem a escriure, ja veurem si...
let's start writing, we'll see if...
Normalment neix d'algun projecte
It usually comes from some project.
de dir, vale, això serà escenificat.
to say, okay, this will be staged.
A mi em costa molt escriure si no tinc
I find it very hard to write if I don't have.
un deadline o si sé que haig d'escriure
a deadline or if I know that I have to write
per alguna cosa. De fet,
for some reason. In fact,
m'agradaria
I would like.
fins i tot obligar-me més
even forcing me more
perquè ho trobo a faltar, perquè
because I miss it, because
em passa també que hi ha èpoques que puc estar
It also happens to me that there are times I can be
un any sense escriure.
a year without writing.
Clar. O sigui, que ve més marcat, diguéssim.
Sure. So, it comes more pronounced, let's say.
Ve marcat de si haig d'estrenar alguna cosa
I am marked by whether I need to wear something new.
i llavors dic, vale, que haig d'estrenar una cosa
And then I say, okay, that I need to wear something new.
que anirà sobre aquest tema que hem decidit, per tant,
that will go on this topic that we have decided, therefore,
vinga, va, m'hi poso i llavors
come on, okay, I’ll get to it and then
me sento sobre el paper, no? Vull dir, sobre el paper,
I sit on the paper, right? I mean, on the paper,
me sento davant del paper i allà
I sit in front of the paper and there
començo a vomitar
I'm starting to vomit.
el que sé que necessito tenir
what I know I need to have
per d'aquí a quins temps, no?
For how long from now, right?
Si no, em costa més, a mi, sí.
If not, it's harder for me, yes.
I a tu, Victòria, per exemple,
And you, Victòria, for example,
tu tens més com a rutina, com a hàbit?
Do you have more as a routine, as a habit?
No, rutina, no.
No, routine, no.
És una obsessió, més que una disciplina.
It is an obsession, more than a discipline.
Jo crec que l'únic que tinc és que
I believe that the only thing I have is that
sóc una persona molt obsessiva, però no sé
I am a very obsessive person, but I don't know.
fer res, en realitat. Vull dir, no,
do nothing, really. I mean, no,
que no, si tu em dius, saps escriure,
that no, if you tell me, you know how to write,
jo sóc filla d'un gran
I am the daughter of a great man.
poeta i sé el que
poet and I know what
vol dir escriure bé, el meu pare
it means to write well, my father
escrivia com els àngels, és que
she wrote like angels, it's that
una passada, jo no em reconec
incredible, I don't recognize myself
en aquesta, diguéssim,
in this, let's say,
disciplina
discipline
literària, no?
literary, right?
Perquè també el teatre
Because of the theater too.
no és exactament literatura, llavors,
it's not exactly literature, then,
això de l'escriptura
this about writing
en el teatre és una escriptura oral,
in the theater it is an oral writing,
en realitat, llavors, tampoc jo faig
In reality, then, neither do I.
aquesta disciplina que tenen els novel·listes
this discipline that novelists have
que cada dia
that every day
escriure, no, però sí que és
Write, no, but yes it is.
una obsessió i que
an obsession and what
m'hi reconec
I recognize myself in it.
a gust, escrivint.
at ease, writing.
No ho faig cada dia, no.
I don't do it every day, no.
I cada cop ho faig més, perquè ara
And I do it more and more often, because now
sí que vaig molt ocupat, bueno,
yes, I am very busy, well,
tinc molta feina, el temps ja
I have a lot of work, the time already.
no té, diguéssim,
it doesn't have, let's say,
no tenim el temps que almenys jo tenia
we don't have the time that at least I had
quan vaig començar a escriure,
when I started to write,
llavors, escric més pensant
then, I write more thinking
en actors o en imatges,
in actors or in images,
sí, sí, sí.
yes, yes, yes.
A mi sí que em passa, per exemple, que sí que
It does happen to me, for example, that yes that
a l'hora de composar música sí que em neix
when it comes to composing music, it does come to me
una mica, sense jo voler-ho,
a little, without me wanting it,
la cosa em demana treure
the thing asks me to take out
aquelles emocions o treure aquells
those emotions or to take those
pensaments i ho tradueixo més
thoughts and I translate it more
fàcilment, amb la música
easily, with the music
i amb lírics, amb lletres de cançons
and with lyrics, with song lyrics
o amb melodies o amb coses així
or with melodies or with things like that
que no en paraula,
that is not in word,
que no en text o en monòlegs interiors
that not in text or in interior monologues
o coses així, que no pensant en una forma més
or things like that, not thinking of a way more
teatral, sinó més
theatrical, but more
musicat. La música
musicat. The music
té una qüestió més
has one more question
abstracta, no?, que et permet això, expressar millor
abstract, right?, that allows you to express better
un estat d'ànim
a state of mind
concret. I, per exemple,
concrete. I, for example,
vosaltres us documenteu
you document yourselves
molt abans de començar un procés d'escriptura
long before starting a writing process
o no?
or not?
A mi m'agrada,
I like it.
bueno, no m'interessa
well, I'm not interested
molt el teatre documental,
a lot of documentary theatre,
ni penso que, jo no soc historiadora
I don't think so, I am not a historian.
ni tinc, bueno, un compromís
I don't have, well, a commitment.
amb la veritat històrica,
with historical truth,
no, jo m'agrada molt pensar en la imaginació,
No, I really like to think about imagination.
jo penso que
I think that
el teatre és un convit
the theater is an invitation
a la imaginació, llavors,
to the imagination, then,
però sí que com m'agrada molt
but yes, I like it a lot
estudiar, llegir, doncs
study, read, then
ho aprofito, i el que no
I take advantage of it, and what I don't.
m'agrada és que hi hagi com una relació
What I like is that there is like a relationship.
de causa
of cause
i efecte, no?, com vaig
And indeed, right? How am I doing?
a estudiar això, llavors faré aquesta tesi,
to study this, then I will do this thesis,
no, jo llegeixo molt,
no, I read a lot,
m'escric moltes notes
I write myself many notes.
i tal, i després ho volco
And so, and then I'll pour it out.
tal i com surt, en realitat.
just as it is, actually.
També treballo molt des de la intuïció.
I also work a lot from intuition.
Val.
Okay.
Jo crec que una mica diferent, perquè
I think it's a bit different because
jo sí que d'alguna manera sé
I do know in some way.
el que,
what,
vull, i llavors
I want, and then
dic, vale, què fa falta? A mi m'agrada molt
I say, okay, what’s needed? I really like it a lot.
del que hem trobat al Marcel, del nostre
from what we found on Marcel, from our
llenguatge, és que
language, is that
m'agrada que és bastant multidisciplinar,
I like that it is quite multidisciplinary,
no?, i no només en les
no?, and not only in the
disciplines artístiques de
artistic disciplines of
no només en les disciplines artístiques
not only in the artistic disciplines
de l'escena, que podrien ser
of the scene, which could be
això, la dansa, la música,
this, the dance, the music,
el teatre, els síntomes, sinó també dintre de l'escriptura,
the theatre, the symptoms, but also within writing,
no?, de si de cop agafem una cosa
No? As if we suddenly take something.
i diem, vale, aquí hem de fer una narració
And we say, okay, here we have to make a narration.
literària, que soni a
literary, that sounds like
no sé quantos, aquí vull fer una cosa
I don't know how many, here I want to do something.
documental, aquí vull fer una cosa més
documentary, here I want to do something more
poètica, aquí vull fer una cosa més
poetic, here I want to do something more
guionitzat, no?, teatral,
scripted, right?, theatrical,
de diàleg entre dues persones,
of dialogue between two people,
i en cada cas intentem
and in each case we try
doncs nodrir-nos
then feed us
de tot el que això representa,
of everything that this represents,
no?, si hem de fer un documental, diem
No? If we have to make a documentary, let's say.
doncs vinga, sí, hem d'anar
Alright then, yes, we have to go.
a llegir-nos tot sobre aquest tema
to read everything about this topic
perquè realment es noti que ens hem
because it really shows that we have
documentat a saco i que tal.
documented a lot and how about that.
Si vull escriure alguna cosa més
If I want to write something else
poètica, doncs llavors faré el mateix, intentaré
poetic, so then I will do the same, I will try
com llegir-me tot el que...
how to read me everything that...
A mi hi ha una frase que m'agrada que és
There is a phrase I like which is
en anglès, we get inspiration from copy,
in English, we get inspiration from copy,
agafem la inspiració a través de la còpia.
We take inspiration through copying.
Crec que és lícit, vam fer una obra
I believe it is legitimate, we did a work.
que es deia Falster, que d'alguna manera
that was called Falster, that somehow
reflexionava sobre tots aquests temes de l'ogenuí,
I was reflecting on all these themes of the ogenuí,
la còpia, la referència,
the copy, the reference,
bla, bla, bla, i una de les
bla, bla, bla, and one of the
conclusions vàlides que jo entrec d'aquell
valid conclusions that I draw from that
espectacle és això, és que sovint
This is a spectacle, it is that often.
la inspiració pot partir de la còpia
Inspiration can stem from imitation.
i ja deixarà de ser còpia en un moment donat
and will cease to be a copy at a given moment
perquè està clar que al final el que escriu ets tu
because it is clear that in the end, it is you who writes
i per tant arribaràs a un altre
and therefore you will reach another
lloc on ha arribat la teva referència, no?, el teu
place where your reference has arrived, right?, yours
referent. Però en canvi
reference. But on the other hand
sí que és interessant perquè d'alguna manera
yes, it is interesting because in some way
bueno, et...
Well, you...
Dona una estructura,
It gives structure,
una pauta, no? Exacte, et dona una
a guideline, right? Exactly, it gives you one.
pauta, no?, i no et perds en els marges,
pattern, right?, and you don't get lost in the margins,
no te'n vas, no tens el full en blanc
You're not leaving, you don't have a blank sheet.
sinó que dius, no, ja sé que vull fer un
but you say, no, I already know that I want to do a
poema, per tant, ja sé
poem, therefore, I already know
quina estructura vull que tingui, vull que soni
what structure do I want it to have, I want it to sound
d'aquesta manera, vull aquesta temàtica, tal i qual,
In this way, I want this theme, just like that.
i a partir d'aquí llavors
and from here then
escric. I una mica amb el tema
I write. And a little about the topic.
de documentar-se també, si sé que és una obra
to document oneself as well, if I know it's a work
on vull que
where I want you to
hi hagi elements
there are elements
biogràfics o que hi hagi
biographical or what there is
referències temporals
temporal references
molt concretes, no sé què, doncs llavors intentaré
very specific, I don't know what, so then I will try
saber-ne tot el possible abans de posar-m'hi,
to know everything possible before getting into it,
saps? Clar. Llavors,
you know? Sure. So,
com hem dit al principi,
as we said at the beginning,
Victòria, hi ha obres
Victory, there are works.
que dirigeixes tu i d'altres
that you and others lead
que les dirigeix una altra
that is directed by another
persona, no?, de fet la Glòria Balanyà
person, right?, in fact, Glòria Balanyà
ha estat una habitual en les teves
it has been a regular in your
direccions, i m'agradaria
directions, and I would like
saber quina diferència hi ha entre
to know what the difference is between
entre
between
una escriptura, no?, pensada per ser
a writing, right?, meant to be
autodirigida, i una que saps
self-directed, and one that you know
que dirigirà una altra persona.
that will be directed by another person.
Ah, no sé.
Ah, I don't know.
No sé. No, és que
I don't know. No, it's just that
jo me...
I...
Bueno, ara crec que vull dirigir-les
Well, now I think I want to lead them.
jo, a part... Bueno, fa
me, apart from... Well, it’s been
un temps que les vull dirigir
A time that I want to direct them.
jo perquè...
I because...
No sé, perquè no les...
I don’t know, because I don’t...
Durant una època vaig deixar de
For a while, I stopped doing
dirigir, i...
direct, and...
Però no, la veritat que no sé
But no, the truth is I don't know.
de per què, no sé per què.
I don't know why.
Suposo que és més
I suppose it is more.
còmode, en realitat. Per mi, escriure
comfortable, actually. For me, writing
és molt més còmode que dirigir.
It's much more comfortable than directing.
Perquè dirigir suposa
Because directing means
una fita
a milestone
social, has de
social, you have to
cada dia anar a trobar-te amb els
every day go to meet you with the
actors, fer-los creure
actors, make them believe
que ho tens...
that you have it...
No, no, no,
No, no, no.
a mi m'encanten els actors
I love actors.
i les actrius, però cada dia has d'anar
and the actresses, but every day you have to go
allà a dir-los que tot va bé. O sigui, a mi
there to tell them that everything is fine. I mean, to me
em costa organitzar un sopar.
I find it hard to organize a dinner.
Imagina't anar cada dia a...
Imagine going every day to...
O sigui, ho trobo... Però, en realitat,
That is to say, I find it... But, actually,
si no em faig la pel·lícula, és a dir,
if I don't get carried away with my imagination, that is,
si no m'agobio prèviament,
if I don't stress myself out beforehand,
darrerament m'estic trobant
lately I am finding myself
molt còmode i m'agrada.
very comfortable and I like it.
I també perquè
And also because
aquí hi ha una qüestió
here is a question
a Catalunya, bueno, i a Espanya,
in Catalonia, well, and in Spain,
diria que, ostres, la feina
I would say that, wow, the work.
de l'autor, remuneradament,
from the author, remuneratively,
no està
it's not there
tan considerada com la del
as regarded as that of
director, que és una qüestió molt prosaica,
director, which is a very prosaic matter,
però, bueno, la poso sobre la taula.
But, well, I put it on the table.
És a dir, un director,
That is to say, a director,
obre quatre o cinc vegades més
open four or five times more
que un autor.
that an author.
Alhora que l'autor és qui posa
At the same time, the author is the one who sets.
el nom i qui després
the name and who later
on cau el pes
where the weight falls
de la crítica, generalment,
from the criticism, generally,
llavors hi ha una cosa estranya
then there is a strange thing
amb això. Llavors, per mi,
with this. Then, for me,
darrerament, també penso
lately, I also think
que el text s'acaba a l'escena
that the text ends at the scene
i que m'agrada sentir-ho
and I like to hear it
més com un continu, que ho començo
more like a continuous thing, that I'm starting it
a escriure i s'acaba escènicament.
to write and ends dramatically.
Sí que és cert que durant una època
Yes, it is true that for a period of time
vaig preferir que ho dirigís,
I preferred that he/she directed it,
que ho dirigís una altra persona,
that it be directed by another person,
però
but
també està canviant la idea
it is also changing the idea
aquesta de l'autor que escriu a casa
this one from the author who writes at home
seva. Bueno, jo mai ho sé si és millor
yours. Well, I never know if it's better.
o pitjor, perquè hi ha una idea
or worse, because there is an idea
de l'autor del segle XIX que escriu
from the 19th-century author who writes
a casa seva i que deixa el text i que després
at their home and leaving the text and then
el text l'agafa algú. Això està com
the text is taken by someone. This is like
aparentment molt superat,
apparently very overcome,
però, per una altra banda,
but, on the other hand,
no està mal que algú, amb cert
it's not bad that someone, with certainty
resguard, a casa seva es miri
warranty, look at home
els materials, perquè vivim
the materials, because we live
una època tan veloç i tan...
a time so swift and so...
contaminada i tan interrompuda
contaminated and so interrupted
que no està mal que algú agafi
it's not bad for someone to take
el text i des de casa seva
the text and from his/her home
s'ho miri amb certa
take it with a grain of salt
atenció, no?
Attention, right?
Però pot ser la mateixa persona,
But it could be the same person,
per què no? Però això no t'ha...
Why not? But this hasn't...
O sigui, el fet de saber que anaves a escriure
So, the fact that you knew you were going to write
perquè ho dirigís una altra persona no t'ha
because it was directed by someone else it hasn't
modificat, per exemple, l'escriptura?
modified, for example, the writing?
O sigui, en el moment en què saps que t'ho dirigeixes,
So, at the moment when you know that you are addressing it to yourself,
això modifica d'alguna
this modifies in some way
manera o creus que el procés...
way or do you think the process...
Quan t'ho dirigeix algú altre, sembla que estaràs
When someone else directs you, it seems that you will be.
més tranquil i després t'aumeixes,
more calm and then you soothe yourself,
augmenta molt la paranoia, perquè
it greatly increases paranoia, because
la persona que t'ho està dirigint
the person who is directing it to you
evidentment
obviously
no ets tu i de vegades
it's not you and sometimes
ho veu d'una manera que
he sees it in a way that
tu no t'ho pots creure, que ho estigui
you can't believe it, that it is happening
veient d'aquella manera.
seeing that way.
A mi m'han dirigit coses a fora,
I have been directed to things outside,
el que passa és que quan canvia l'idioma
What happens is that when the language changes
llavors tens com certa llicència
then you have a kind of license
i distància, i dius, bueno, això està
And in distance, you say, well, this is
en un altre idioma, jo què sé. Però quan
In another language, I don't know. But when
t'ho dirigeixen, i també m'han
they direct it at you, and they have also directed it at me
dirigit a Madrid o així, llavors hi ha
headed to Madrid or so, then there is
com certa distància. Quan t'ho dirigeixen,
with a certain distance. When it is directed at you,
aquí, que és la teva ciutat,
here, which is your city,
és local, és tot molt pròxim,
it's local, it's all very close,
bueno, o tens molta
well, either you have a lot
sort o el procés...
sort or the process...
Ho pateixes.
You suffer it.
Sí, sí, ho pateixes,
Yes, yes, you suffer it,
perquè hi ets i no hi ets.
because you are there and you are not there.
Clar, d'alguna manera hi ha algú que no es pot
Of course, in some way there is someone who cannot.
tocar, que la responsabilitat
to touch, that the responsibility
es trasllada de cop i volta.
it happens all of a sudden.
I jo me n'adono que vaig començar a fer
And I realize that I started to do
les acotacions en majúscula.
the notes in uppercase.
Que això era com una... Dic, què foto fent
That this was like a... I mean, what a photo to take.
les acotacions? Home, és que no fan les
The annotations? Well, they don't do the...
acotacions, no? I per què la acotació?
annotations, right? And why the annotation?
No té el valor que té la rèplica.
It does not have the value that the replica has.
Bueno, en fi...
Well, anyway...
I, per exemple,
And, for example,
Nau, tu, a les obres que escriviu
Nau, you, in the works that you write.
amb el Marcel, com també
with Marcel, as well
he dit abans, les interpreteu
I said before, you interpret them.
i dirigiu vosaltres mateixos.
and direct yourselves.
Per tant, quina diferència hi hauria
Therefore, what difference would there be?
entre una escriptura pensada per ser
between a writing intended to be
autointerpretada, com
self-interpreted, as
actor, o una escriptura pensada
actor, or a thought-out script
perquè l'interpreti una altra persona?
Why should it be interpreted by someone else?
Saps?
You know?
És bona aquesta pregunta, perquè en el nostre cas,
This is a good question because in our case,
per exemple, el Marcel i jo
for example, Marcel and I
hem acabat tenint una marca, almenys aquí
we ended up having a brand, at least here
a Barcelona, la gent que ens coneix,
in Barcelona, the people who know us,
que ja ens venen a veure a nosaltres.
that they are already coming to see us.
Venen a veure una obra que està escrita per nosaltres, però també
They come to see a play that is written by us, but also
que nosaltres, d'alguna manera, hi actuarem
that we will, in some way, act on it
i acabarem sent el centre.
And we will end up being the center.
I ens hem convertit en aquesta espècie
And we have become this species.
de parella còmica que no vam
of a comic couple that we didn't
pretendre en cap moment, però que...
to intend at any moment, but that...
I tot i que no tenim una gran
And even though we don't have a great
comicitat, sí que hi ha alguna cosa dels rols
comicity, yes there is something about the roles
que tenim en l'escenari
what we have on stage
que surten de manera intuitiva
that come out intuitively
o com sol, no? Però...
or like the sun, right? But...
Que s'ha convertit en una cosa que, a priori,
That has become something that, at first glance,
no buscàvem i que està allà i...
we weren't looking for it and it's there and...
I ho acabem tenint en compte. A l'hora,
We end up taking it into account. At the time,
doncs sí, hem acabat fent aquestes
well yes, we ended up doing these
espècies d'autoficcions on el
species of autofictions where the
Marcel i jo som part de la trama,
Marcel and I are part of the plot,
una cosa que va néixer
one thing that was born
amb Atraco,
with Heist,
Paliza y Muerte, que després vam
Beating and Death, which we later did
acabar retomant, d'alguna manera,
end up resuming, in some way,
amb Lamont i després amb Falstaff.
with Lamont and then with Falstaff.
Sí, sí.
Yes, yes.
I en els skaters, també, i en
And in the skaters, too, and in
totes les peces que vam estar en el centre.
All the pieces that we were in the center.
La monja enterrada en vida. Sempre hi ha dos
The nun buried alive. There are always two.
personatges masculins de la nostra edat,
male characters of our age,
que són uns alter-egos nostres.
that are some of our alter egos.
Sí, sí, totalment. I a l'hora d'escriure
Yes, yes, totally. And when it comes to writing.
això ho tenim molt en compte, clar. Sabem que nosaltres
we take this into account very much, of course. We know that we
volem ser el centre. Clar.
we want to be the center. Of course.
També perquè, com et deia abans, tot neix de
Also because, as I was saying before, everything originates from
nosaltres escriure'ns el nostre material,
we write our material to each other,
per dir, volem fer teatre, volem que ens donin aquests papers
To say, we want to do theater, we want them to give us these roles.
que no ens donaran mai, per tant, anem a escriure'ns
that they will never give us, so let’s write to each other
les nostres obres per poder-les protagonitzar.
our works to be able to star in them.
I a partir d'aquí,
And from here,
tot ha acabat, d'alguna manera,
everything has ended, in some way,
girant sobre aquest mateix eix,
turning around this very axis,
de dir, nosaltres estarem al centre i
to say, we will be at the center and
ens passaran algunes aventures, algunes
we will experience some adventures, some
reflexions, a vegades també ens n'hem acabat...
reflections, sometimes we have also ended up...
cansant una mica del tema d'aventures
tiring a bit of the adventure theme
de tipi zape, i acabem
like zape type, and we finish
pretenent reflexionar més sobre
pretending to reflect more on
d'altres coses, o que es passin altres històries
of other things, or that other stories happen
que són més transcendents i no tant
which are more transcendent and not so much
d'aventures o de...
of adventures or of...
Això és molt interessant,
This is very interesting,
perquè jo tinc
because I have
una relació molt contradictòria
a very contradictory relationship
amb el centre i la perifèria, i de vegades
with the center and the periphery, and sometimes
ara el senti i pensa, clar, hi ha moments
Now he feels and thinks, of course, there are moments.
on un vol estar al centre, però sempre
where there should be a center, but always
està al centre, és com una
it's in the center, it's like a
gran responsabilitat, i és veritat,
great responsibility, and it is true,
quan tu em deies, per què de vegades
when you told me, why sometimes
vols que algú t'ho dirigeixi,
do you want someone to direct it for you,
és perquè necessites, com anar
it's because you need, as to go
molt a la perifèria, a mi m'agraden molt
very much on the periphery, I really like them
també les perifèries, d'anar a respirar
also the peripheries, to go breathe
i dir, bueno, jo no estic aquí
And say, well, I'm not here.
al centre de la festa, perquè estàs
in the center of the party, because you are
sempre... Què hi ha al centre de la
always... What is in the center of the
festa? Sempre hi ha al centre de la festa,
party? There's always a center of the party.
vull dir, és una... Però a la vegada és inevitable,
I mean, it’s a... But at the same time, it’s inevitable,
no?, també. Home, si ets tan
No? Me too. Well, if you're such...
guapo com tu, sí, però jo tinc més...
Handsome like you, yes, but I have more...
No, no, però fins i tot a l'hora que...
No, no, but even at the time that...
Fins i tot quan dius, vaig a escriure alguna cosa que no
Even when you say, I'm going to write something that doesn't.
vagi sobre mi, que vagi d'una altra...
let it be about me, let it be about someone else...
Sí, sempre hi ha... Però sempre estàs tu allà.
Yes, there is always... But you are always there.
Sempre estàs tu, i això és una...
You are always there, and that is a...
Els teus personatges parlen d'alguna manera
Your characters speak in some way.
des de tu, per molt
from you, no matter how much
que ho vulguis evitar, no? Sí,
that you want to avoid it, right? Yes,
de fet, l'autoficció és més antiga
In fact, autofiction is older.
que... És tan antiga com la literatura.
that... It is as old as literature.
El que passa és que ara s'ha convertit
What happens is that now it has become
en un gènere que és una tendència, però en
in a genre that is a trend, but in
realitat tot és autoficció.
reality all is autofiction.
Jo estic d'acord. Sí, sí. I recuperant
I agree. Yes, yes. And recovering.
una mica la pregunta d'abans,
a little bit like the question from before,
seria... No, no, tranqui, tranqui. No, no, està perfecte.
It would be... No, no, don't worry, don't worry. No, no, it's perfect.
Però seria...
But it would be...
Clar, per exemple, quan tens la monja enterrada
Of course, for example, when you have the nun buried.
en vida, no?, amb un poble o pes allà fent-te
In life, right?, with a village or weight there making you.
de...
from...
del personatge, que no me'n recordo...
of the character, I don't remember...
Albert, oi? Doncs,
Albert, right? Well,
de cop i volta...
suddenly...
Clar, a l'escriure per tu
Sure, when writing for you
o escriure pel Pol,
or write for Pol,
quines variants hi ha?
What variants are there?
Hi ha algú... Hi ha d'haver alguna diferència
There is someone... There must be some difference.
entre tu saber com interpretaràs...
between you knowing how you will interpret...
En canvi, l'altre és...
On the other hand, the other is...
No ho deu saber, no?, com reaccionar
He/She must not know, right?, how to react.
l'altre davant d'un text. Tu ja saps
the other in front of a text. You already know
com interpretaràs aquest text
how will you interpret this text
d'alguna manera. Sí que és veritat que
in some way. It is true that
en general, en general,
in general, in general,
escrivim sabent
we write knowing
quins ho interpreten.
which interpret it.
D'acord. D'acord? Llavors, sí que és
Okay. Okay? Then, yes it is.
veritat que és diferent escriure-s'ho per un mateix o pel
Isn't it true that it's different to write it for oneself or for someone else?
Marcel mateix, que ens coneixem tant
Marcel himself, who we know so well.
i que sabem com sonarà o quins rols
and that we know how it will sound or what roles
som capaços d'agafar i bla, bla, bla.
we are capable of taking and bla, bla, bla.
Però després, per l'altra banda,
But then, on the other hand,
si més o menys tens un càsting al cap,
if you more or less have an audition in mind,
com deies tu, Victòria, abans, no?, que escrius
As you said, Victòria, before, right?, that you write.
sabent que això m'agradaria que m'ho fes fulanito.
Knowing that I would like fulanito to do this for me.
I llavors ja ho escrius dient
And then you write it saying
aquest sap fer molt bé, per exemple, això,
this can do very well, for example, this,
no?, i ja discric això perquè li funcioni
No?, and I'm already writing this so it works for him.
bé o, en canvi, intento evitar això altre que
well or, on the other hand, I try to avoid this other thing that
sé que potser aquest actor va més coix
I know that perhaps this actor limps more.
d'això o no l'he vist mai fer això i, per tant,
I've never seen this done, and therefore,
no m'arrisco a proposar-li o
I don't dare to propose it to you or
ho deixo més tan baix i ja ho trobaré
I'll leave it lower and I'll find it later.
en els assajos. També la nostra
in the rehearsals. Also our
escriptura és molt...
writing is very...
té un procés de creació
it has a creation process
en la sala d'assaj, també.
in the rehearsal room, too.
Intentem tenir tota una feina
Let's try to have a whole job.
feta per no enganxar-nos als dits perquè,
made so we don't get stuck on our fingers because,
malauradament, en els processos...
unfortunately, in the processes...
Els timings són els que són i no podem
The timings are what they are and we cannot.
estar assajant durant mesos i mesos.
been rehearsing for months and months.
Per tant, tenim tot ben preparat
Therefore, we have everything well prepared.
el calaix per si de cas, però també
the drawer just in case, but also
ens agrada deixar llocs on dir, vale, aquesta escena
We like to leave places where we can say, okay, this scene.
intuïm per on va
we sense where it's going
però no l'acabem d'escriure perquè a veure què ens
but we don't finish writing it because let's see what we
donen els actors. A veure si de cop fem unes impros
the actors are giving. Let's see if we suddenly do some improvisations.
i surt un material boníssim que no havíem pensat
And a very good material comes out that we hadn't thought of.
sobre que a aquest personatge, en el fons, el que li passa
about what happens to this character, ultimately.
és que no sé què, que no se'ns havia
It's just that I don't know what, that we hadn't...
conegut i l'actor ens ha donat això i
known and the actor has given us this and
de cop comença a sortir allà molt material.
Suddenly, a lot of material starts to come out there.
Sí, d'alguna manera les improvisacions formen
Yes, in a way improvisations make up.
part del vostre... Sí, i ens agrada molt nodrir-nos
Part of your... Yes, and we really enjoy nourishing ourselves.
d'això. I sempre
of this. And always
intentem que, d'alguna manera, els nostres
we try to ensure that, in some way, our
processos, els actors,
processes, the actors,
són actors barra performers
they are actors slash performers
barra creadors, no?
creator bar, right?
I que, d'alguna manera, al final, el material
And that, in some way, in the end, the material
que acaba sortint
that ends up coming out
parteix d'ells, una mica, saps?
It starts with them, a little, you know?
I ara la següent
And now the next one.
pregunta que tinc és com pels
The question I have is how for.
dos, o sigui, perquè tinc la
two, I mean, because I have the
sensació, com a mínim, aquesta és la meva percepció
sensation, at least, this is my perception
sobre l'exercici d'escriure,
about the exercise of writing,
que quan s'escriu una obra,
that when a work is written,
també s'escriu com
it is also written as
un univers en la ment de l'autor,
a universe in the mind of the author,
en com són els personatges, que d'una
how the characters are, that in one
manera és el que estem parlant ara, no?
That's what we are talking about now, right?
Com parlen o com s'expressen.
How they speak or how they express themselves.
Per tant, quina és aquesta
Therefore, what is this?
relació entre
relationship between
allò que heu imaginat mentre escrivieu
all that you have imagined while writing
el text, no?, i la realitat que us trobeu
the text, right?, and the reality you encounter
a la sala d'assaig, no?
in the rehearsal room, right?
Per exemple, mentre escriviu, no?,
For example, while you are writing, right?
suposo que imagineu que
I suppose you can imagine that
una frase serà dita d'una determinada
a phrase will be said in a certain way
manera. De fet, podríem dir que segurament
way. In fact, we could say that probably
la visualitzeu, però quan acabeu a la sala
do you visualize it, but when you finish in the room
d'assaig, no?, l'actor o l'actriu
of rehearsal, right?, the actor or the actress
us proposa una idea diferent,
it proposes a different idea,
que és el que estàvem parlant ara, no?,
What is it that we were talking about now, right?
que tu reps el que l'actor et dona,
that you receive what the actor gives you,
però no estava dins el vostre
but it was not inside yours
imaginari. Per tant, com us relacioneu
imaginary. Therefore, how do you relate to it?
entre aquestes diferències de
between these differences of
quan escrius i quan t'ho trobes
when you write and when you find it
a la sala d'assaig, no? I creieu
In the rehearsal room, right? And you believe?
que l'equip pot acabar
that the team can finish
de modular l'escriptura, d'alguna
to modular the writing, of some
manera? I tant.
Way? Of course.
Bueno, hi ha una cosa meravellosa
Well, there is a wonderful thing.
que és quan escrius. Jo escric molt també
what it is when you write. I write a lot too
de vegades molt com inconscient.
sometimes very much like unconscious.
Hi ha moltes parts que de vegades
There are many parts that sometimes
no acabo d'entendre i dic, bueno, ja
I don't quite understand and I say, well, okay.
ho entendrà algú. O si ho dirigeix
Will someone understand it? Or if he directs it.
o el públic, bueno, tens un material
or the public, well, you have material
que dius, ostres, si ara em trobo l'actor
What do you say, wow, if I run into the actor now?
i l'actriu que tot, per què, per què, moro?
And the actress that everything, why, why, do I die?
Però si trobes actors i actrius que
But if you find actors and actresses who
de vegades hi són, no?, i que són més
Sometimes they are there, right?, and there are more.
lliures i no t'ho pregunten, vas tirant.
free and they don't ask you, you keep going.
I de vegades l'actor i l'actriu
And sometimes the actor and the actress.
diu la paraula que et retorna
say the word that returns to you
el que tu vas sentir
what you felt
quan ho vas escriure i no te'n recordaves.
when you wrote it and you didn't remember.
I això és brutal,
And this is brutal,
no? Però m'ha passat amb alguns
No? But it has happened to me with some.
actors o actrius que ho diuen
actors or actresses who say it
d'una manera que, ostres, és com tornar
In a way that, wow, it's like going back.
a l'experiència, a la primera
to the experience, to the first
experiència, que és una sensació
experience, which is a sensation
i és molt xulo. Després,
and it's very cool. Afterwards,
clar, l'equip, en general,
of course, the team, in general,
mola reunir-te de gent,
it's great to meet people,
gent intel·ligent, i més intel·ligent
intelligent people, and more intelligent
que un mateix, que n'hi ha molta gent
that one oneself, that there are many people
intel·ligent, llavors, que et resolguin
intelligent, then, let them resolve it for you
coses que tu no has pogut resoldre.
things that you have not been able to resolve.
Jo hi confio molt, amb això, i amb actors
I trust it a lot, with this, and with actors.
i actrius que tenen molta intuïció.
And actresses who have a lot of intuition.
Hi ha una qüestió, aquí,
There is a question, here,
a Catalunya, la metodologia
in Catalonia, the methodology
d'actors i actrius
of actors and actresses
generalment no és
generally it is not
la que té el Nau i el Marcel.
the one with Nau and Marcel.
És a dir, la formació d'actors
That is to say, the training of actors.
i actrius, en general, són actors
And actresses, in general, are actors.
i actrius. Ara està canviant,
and actresses. It is now changing,
però de text, que el que fan és
but of text, what they do is
vendre's un text amb una metodologia, una formació
sell a text with a methodology, a training
més convencional.
more conventional.
I a mi el que m'ha passat durant molt de temps
And what has happened to me for a long time
és que sentia que els meus textos
it's just that I felt that my texts
xocaven amb aquesta metodologia
they clashed with this methodology
o formació. No ho sé,
or training. I don't know,
perquè potser no soc
because maybe I am not
del tot d'aquí, té una
completely from here, it has a
qüestió d'idiosincràsia cultural,
matter of cultural idiosyncrasy,
però això m'ha passat molts cops,
but this has happened to me many times,
que he sentit que l'actor ho deia
that I heard the actor say it
des d'un lloc que té a veure
from a place that has to do
amb la formació actoral
with acting training
que no ve del lloc on ha sorgit
that does not come from the place where it has emerged
el text.
the text.
Es va fent.
It's coming along.
Sí, sí, totalment.
Yes, yes, totally.
I en el teu cas, Nau,
And in your case, Nau,
com et relaciones amb aquestes diferències?
How do you relate to these differences?
Està clar que l'equip té molt a dir
It is clear that the team has a lot to say.
i molt a veure. En els nostres espectacles
and much to see. In our shows
també ens intentem
we also try
ajuntar
to join
amb artistes que ens interpelen,
with artists who challenge us,
que tenen
that have
criteris semblants als nostres,
criteria similar to ours,
però a la vegada diferents, perquè sumin.
but at the same time different, so that they add up.
I el mateix amb els actors
And the same with the actors.
i les actrius.
and the actresses.
I està clar que acaben modulant el text,
And it's clear that they ultimately modify the text.
d'una manera o d'una altra.
one way or another.
Jo crec que si el text que has escrit
I believe that if the text you have written
ho has d'explicar molt,
you have to explain it a lot,
és que algú ho has escrit malament.
It’s just that someone has written it incorrectly.
A priori m'agrada pensar
At first, I like to think.
que l'actor
that the actor
o l'actriu
or the actress
ha de poder tirar milles, d'alguna manera.
He must be able to throw miles, somehow.
Ha de poder intuir cap on va el text.
One must be able to sense where the text is going.
Si és tan críptic
If it is so cryptic
o és tan hermètic
or is so hermetic
o està tan mal escrit
or it's so poorly written
que necessita preguntar-te
that needs to ask you
molt sovint cap on va
very often goes nowhere
cap on va.
nowhere to go.
O tu ho has d'explicar molt
Or you have to explain it very well.
perquè veus que està molt perdut.
because you see that he is very lost.
Llavors jo crec que té a veure més
Then I think it has more to do with
amb que el text aquest no pica bé,
with the fact that this text doesn't fit well,
no està ben resolt,
it is not well resolved,
no s'entenen les imatges
the images are not understood
o el que tu vulguis explicar.
or whatever you want to explain.
I en canvi, de seguida,
And instead, right away,
quan veus un actor i una actriu
when you see an actor and an actress
que tiren sols, també et reforça
that throw suns, also strengthens you
de dir, veus? Aquest text està guai,
You see? This text is cool.
aquest text està funcionant.
this text is functioning.
No he hagut d'explicar res i sona bé.
I haven't had to explain anything and it sounds good.
I no sona com me l'havia imaginat,
And it doesn't sound like I had imagined it.
l'està fent sonar d'una altra manera,
he is making it sound different,
però m'arriba igual.
But it reaches me just the same.
Llavors és com dius, va, bien, vamos bien amb això.
Then it's like you say, come on, good, we're doing well with this.
Gràcies.
Thank you.
És interessant, quasi que no
It’s interesting, almost not.
coincideixen com jo m'ho havia imaginat,
they coincide with how I had imagined it,
sinó que hi ha alguna cosa que va més enllà
but there is something that goes beyond
i és el que flueix d'alguna manera,
and it is what flows in some way,
està viu aquell text.
that text is alive.
Però cuidado que de vegades,
But be careful because sometimes,
jo estic totalment d'acord amb el que diu,
I totally agree with what he/she says.
però de vegades allò críptic està sobrevalorat.
but sometimes that crypticness is overrated.
És a dir, hi ha tota una escriptura
That is to say, there is a whole writing.
que jo connecto molt
that I connect a lot
amb una escriptura de la imaginació.
with a writing of the imagination.
Jo parteixo d'imatges,
I start from images,
no parteixo d'una cosa,
I don't start from one thing,
d'un vers o d'una qüestió més literària,
of a verse or a more literary question,
jo parteixo absolutament d'imatges.
I absolutely start from images.
Però hi ha tota una tradició de text
But there is a whole tradition of text.
que té a veure amb l'estratègia,
that has to do with the strategy,
de l'estratègia del personatge.
of the character's strategy.
I parlo de textos que treballen molt el subtext,
I am talking about texts that work a lot with subtext,
llavors aquí pots trobar molta cosa críptica,
then here you can find a lot of cryptic things,
tota aquesta idea que l'actor et pregunta.
the whole idea that the actor asks you.
D'on vinc?
Where do I come from?
Quin és el meu obstacle?
What is my obstacle?
Hi ha tota una formació així,
There is a whole training like this,
que potser no sou els actors que vosaltres treballeu,
that perhaps you are not the actors you work with,
però jo me n'he trobat actors que...
but I have come across actors who...
Quin és la meva...
What is my...
No dic impuls, que això encara,
I'm not saying impulse, not yet.
però per què faig això?
but why am I doing this?
Bueno, la paraula no sempre té un per què.
Well, the word doesn't always have a reason.
Parlem per fugir, parlem per sobreviure,
We talk to escape, we talk to survive,
parlem per, jo què sé,
let's talk for, I don't know,
per rebre, donar, enamorar-nos...
to receive, to give, to fall in love...
No sempre parlem perquè volem aconseguir una cosa,
We don't always talk because we want to achieve something,
però hi ha tot un teatre que treballa la paraula
but there is a whole theater that works with words
com una estratègia que darrere hi ha tot un subtext i un...
with a strategy that has a whole subtext behind it and a...
Sí, sí, totalment.
Yes, yes, absolutely.
Sí, jo crec que també per això,
Yes, I think that’s also why,
almenys en el teatre,
at least in the theater,
i mira que el Marcel i jo al final som molt de text,
and look that Marcel and I in the end are very much about text,
les nostres obres parlen molt, els nostres personatges,
our works speak a lot, our characters,
però, tot i així,
but, even so,
després aboguem un teatre on la paraula no està en el centre,
then we advocate for a theater where words are not at the center,
o pretenem que no està en el centre, saps?
or we pretend that it's not at the center, you know?
Aquesta idea de...
This idea of...
Jo no en tinc ni idea perquè no ho he estudiat,
I have no idea because I haven't studied it.
però em sembla que se li diu teatre postdramàtic,
but it seems to me that it is called postdramatic theatre,
que és el que decideix...
what is it that decides...
És el que fas tu, no?
It's what you do, isn't it?
Em sembla que ho intento.
I think I'll give it a try.
Quan expliquen teatre postdramàtic diuen...
When they explain postdramatic theatre they say...
Posen el nombre.
They put the name.
Com a exemple.
As an example.
I el Marcel Borràs.
And Marcel Borràs.
Pot ser.
It could be.
De dir, la paraula no cal que estigui en el centre, saps?
To say, the word doesn't need to be in the center, you know?
Se li pot posar la llum, la escenografia, el vídeo...
You can add the light, the scenery, the video...
Que m'expliquin una història igual, si vols, eh?
Let them tell me a story just like that, if you want, huh?
Continuem dintre del marc de lo narratiu,
We continue within the framework of the narrative,
però sense que sigui la paraula el fil conductor.
but without the word being the common thread.
Totalment.
Totally.
I això és algo que crec que, almenys avui dia,
And this is something that I believe, at least these days,
tot el que estem mamant de tot arreu,
everything we are sucking from everywhere,
tanta la sobreinformació,
both the overinformation,
anar al teatre i que no sigui la paraula
to go to the theater and it not be the word
el que està en el centre,
what is in the center,
sinó que passin altres coses,
but that other things happen,
crec que pot ser molt enriquidor i...
I think it can be very enriching and...
Totalment.
Totally.
Hi ha una...
There is a...
Així com...
Just as...
Avançant amb les temàtiques,
Moving forward with the themes,
hi ha una cosa que em sembla molt fascinant de tu,
there is one thing that seems very fascinating about you,
Nau i Marcel,
Nau and Marcel,
i és la vostra quasi condició prematura
and it is your almost premature condition
a l'hora d'escriure i crear espectacles, no?
When it comes to writing and creating shows, right?
La vostra primera producció va ser,
Your first production was,
si no m'equivoco,
if I'm not mistaken,
l'Estreiten Kon Freiten,
the Struggle with Freiten,
el 2007.
the 2007.
És a dir, que tu tenies 16 anys
That is to say, you were 16 years old.
i vas estrenar al teatre lliure amb 16 anys.
You made your debut at the Teatre Lliure at 16 years old.
Clar, això em sembla molt prematur.
Sure, that seems very premature to me.
Llavors...
Then...
És molt bèstia, no?
It's very beastly, isn't it?
A mi també m'ho sembla.
I think so too.
És molt heavy.
It's very intense.
Ara ho veig una mica...
Now I see it a little...
Però d'actor o de...?
But as an actor or as...?
De tot, de director.
Of everything, of the director.
No, d'escriptor i director.
No, as a writer and director.
Uau!
Wow!
Uns 16 anys.
About 16 years.
La vam escriure amb 15
We wrote it at 15.
i la vam estrenar amb 16.
and we premiered it at 16.
Clar, és una broma.
Of course, it's a joke.
Sí, sí.
Yes, yes.
Llavors, quines...
So, which...
Aquesta pregunta potser és difícil,
This question may be difficult,
però quines diferències hi ha
but what differences are there
entre aquesta primera obra
between this first work
que vau escriure amb el Marcel
what you wrote with Marcel
i l'última que heu reescrit, suposo,
and the last one you have rewritten, I suppose,
la Traco Paliza, no?
the Traco Beating, right?
Sí.
Yes.
Què creieu que queda de les primeres presses
What do you think remains of the first prints?
i què creieu que heu deixat enrere?
And what do you think you have left behind?
Com...
How...
Intentar fer una radiografia així.
Try to take an X-ray like this.
Ja.
Already.
Bé, una mica té a veure amb el que apuntava
Well, it has a bit to do with what I pointed out.
al principi de la conversa,
at the beginning of the conversation,
que és que tot neix d'aquesta idea
that everything arises from this idea
de passar-nos-ho bé i de jugar
to have a good time and to play
i d'escriure'ns les idees que volíem representar i tal.
and to write us the ideas that we wanted to represent and so on.
I d'alguna manera això estem intentant no perdre-ho,
And in some way we are trying not to lose it.
tot i que és una mica inevitable,
although it is somewhat inevitable,
perquè cada cop agafes més consciència del públic,
because you become more aware of the audience each time,
també...
also...
Bueno, agafes més consciència del pes que tens
Well, you become more aware of the weight you have.
dintre de l'escena,
within the scene,
dintre de l'escena professional nostra, saps?
within our professional scene, you know?
També perquè estem més en el centre.
Also because we are more in the center.
Potser en aquell, clar, estàvem tant als marges,
Perhaps in that one, of course, we were so on the fringes,
ens vam pagar una cosa irrisòria
they paid us a ridiculous amount
per fer aquest espectacle, saps?
To put on this show, you know?
I llavors no hi havia cap por.
And then there was no fear at all.
Ens podíem fotre un hòstia que ningú ens vindria a dir
We could take a hit and no one would come to tell us.
home, però no podeu fer-ho, això.
man, but you can't do this.
Saps?
You know?
Ningú ens vindria a cantar a les quaranta.
No one would come to sing to us at forty.
En canvi ara hi ha un punt que, clar,
On the other hand, there is a point that, of course,
estàs estrenant a la sala gran del Teatro María Guerrero i tal,
you are premiering in the main hall of the María Guerrero Theatre and such,
i també estàs amb el cul més apretat perquè dius,
and you are also with your butt more clenched because you say,
bueno, hi haurà tot un...
well, there will be a whole...
Hi ha més en joc, totalment.
There is more at stake, totally.
Sí, hi ha tota una part de la crítica que vindrà a veure'm,
Yes, there is a whole part of the critics that will come to see me,
hi ha tota una part del show business
there is a whole part of the show business
que també vindrà a veure'm amb l'UPA,
who will also come to see me with the UPA,
i llavors també vas més en peus de plom, suposo.
And then you also proceed more cautiously, I suppose.
Tot i que la nostra batalla constant és intentar evitar això, saps?
Although our constant battle is to try to avoid this, you know?
Intentar mantenir aquesta llibertat que teníem quan teníem 15 anys,
Trying to maintain that freedom we had when we were 15 years old,
i dèiem, va, fem jaques a l'escenari,
And we said, come on, let's make jokes on stage,
ens mengem un peix viu, ens mengem un peix a l'escenari,
we eat a live fish, we eat a fish on stage,
va, va, no hi ha collons, sí, sí, venga, tio, va.
Come on, come on, there’s no way, yes, yes, come on, man, let's go.
Neix d'aquí, de la gambarrada, també, del joc, tal, tal.
It comes from here, from the mess, also, from the game, like, like.
I això, bueno, amb Atraco, Pariza y Muerte,
And that, well, with Heist, Pariza, and Death,
tot i que tenim 30 i és una mica, ja,
even though we are 30 and it's a little, well,
que ens quedem una mica los Enfants Terribles, ja, de pacotilla,
that we remain a bit the Enfants Terribles, yes, of little value,
però sí que intentem mantenir aquesta idea de joc i de...
but we do try to maintain this idea of play and...
Clar, clar, clar. Totalment.
Sure, sure, sure. Totally.
I què creus?
And what do you think?
Que cap on tirarà, no?
Which head will you throw, right?
O què creus d'aquells adolescents de 16 anys,
Or what do you think of those 16-year-old adolescents?
ara que ja esteu 30, crescuts, on creus que han hagut els canvis, no?
Now that you are already 30, grown up, where do you think the changes have been, right?
On creus que, de la gambarrada, potser dels jaques del 2007, cap on...
Do you think that, from the mess, maybe from the Jaques of 2007, towards where...
Home, jo crec que, per exemple,
Man, I think that, for example,
algo que es perdura d'allà és el no deixar indiferent
Something that endures from there is not leaving anyone indifferent.
o incomodar una mica l'espectador, no?
or to discomfort the viewer a little, right?
Això ens continua atraient bastant.
This still attracts us quite a lot.
Com a espectadors, sobretot quan anem al teatre
As spectators, especially when we go to the theater.
i algú ens fa estar incòmode a la cadira, ens atrau.
And if someone makes us uncomfortable in the chair, they attract us.
I també quan som capaços de generar-ho, no?
And also when we are capable of generating it, right?
I crec que d'alguna manera això intentarem mantenir-ho.
I believe that somehow we will try to keep this.
Que potser les formes es transformen
That perhaps the forms transform.
i passa per fer una cosa més performàtica
and it happens to do something more performative
i passa per fer una cosa més... o políticament incorrecta.
and it becomes something more... or politically incorrect.
Clar, hi ha tota una part de...
Of course, there is a whole part of...
També la maduresa, saps?
Also maturity, you know?
També al final, amb 15 anys,
Also at the end, at 15 years old,
hi havia molts pals que no tocaven.
There were many sticks that didn't touch.
És que 15 anys...
It's just that 15 years...
A nivell d'ideologia no ens importava la política.
At an ideological level, we did not care about politics.
Clar.
Of course.
A mi personalment em continua important poc,
Personally, it still matters little to me,
el Marcel més,
Marcel the most,
però ens interpel·la, si més no, saps?
but it questions us, at the very least, you know?
Estem en una societat on ara, amb 30 anys,
We are in a society where now, at 30 years old,
sí que ens interessa la política, almenys.
Yes, we are interested in politics, at least.
Clar, clar.
Sure, sure.
I llavors, a l'hora d'escriure, inevitablement,
And then, when it comes time to write, inevitably,
també tenim un discurs ideològic a darrere,
we also have an ideological discourse behind it,
que defensem o que, al final, qualsevol acció és política.
that we defend or that, in the end, any action is political.
Per tant, si tens aquest pensament, doncs sí.
Therefore, if you have this thought, then yes.
En aquell moment no ho teníem
At that moment we didn't have it.
i ara, d'alguna manera, inevitablement està allà.
And now, somehow, it is inevitably there.
I com aquesta, crec que podríem trobar moltes capes
And like this one, I think we could find many layers.
que amb la maduresa han aparegut
that with maturity have appeared
i que no podem fer veure que no hi són.
and we cannot pretend that they are not there.
Totalment.
Totally.
I tu, Victòria, en aquest sentit,
And you, Victòria, in this regard,
quines diferències creus que hi ha, no?
What differences do you think there are, right?
Entre la primera obra que...
Between the first work that...
1998, la primera, i...
1998, the first one, and...
Estic pensant que soc molt gran, però...
I'm thinking that I'm very old, but...
No?
No?
No...
No...
No, jo, al contrari,
No, I, on the contrary,
jo m'ho prenia amb molta transcendència,
I took it very seriously,
quan era molt joveneta.
when I was very young.
O sigui, realment, el sento a ell i...
I mean, really, I feel him and...
Faig la diferència, sí, sí.
I make the difference, yes, yes.
Sí, sí.
Yes, yes.
Molt idealista, molt.
Very idealistic, very.
Jo pensava que havia de fer una cosa molt...
I thought I had to do something very...
Sí.
Yes.
I m'interessava molt la política, quan tenia 15 anys.
I was very interested in politics when I was 15 years old.
I 16, molt. Sí, molt.
I 16, a lot. Yes, a lot.
I...
I...
No, no, començo d'un lloc molt diferent.
No, no, I start from a very different place.
Vinc d'un altre lloc que no ells, no?
I come from another place that is not them, right?
La meva història és...
My story is...
M'ha passat molt, la meva història,
A lot has happened to me, my story,
d'on vinc, de...
where I come from, from...
Pots explicar-ho com...
Can you explain it as...
Bueno, d'una família que ha patit un exili molt dur,
Well, from a family that has suffered a very harsh exile,
una família molt desestructurada, molt...
a very dysfunctional family, very...
Com sempre, jo sempre he sentit que...
As always, I have always felt that...
que vivia molt en la meva imaginació,
that lived much in my imagination,
que ha sigut una manera de...
that has been a way of...
fugir de la realitat.
escape from reality.
No m'agradava la realitat.
I didn't like reality.
La meva realitat ni la... no m'agradava.
My reality neither... I didn't like.
Ja ho tenia...
I already had it...
O sigui, aquesta cosa fosca, de molt joveneta,
That is to say, this dark thing, from a very young age,
m'adonava que no m'agradava la meva realitat,
I realized that I didn't like my reality,
ni el que ens havia tocat viure, ni la mal... ni tot.
neither what we had to live, nor the bad... nor everything.
Llavors, jo recordo molt estar estirada a la meva habitació
Then, I remember a lot being lying down in my room.
imaginant històries, que pensava, això ho escriuré, ho faré,
imagining stories, that I thought, I will write this, I will do it,
des de molt...
for a long time...
Imaginant obres de teatre o de...
Imagining works of theater or...
Des de molt, molt joveneta.
Since very, very young.
Llavors, l'escriptura, primer, és com una qüestió molt...
Then, writing, first, is like a very...
Sí, no diria èpica, però...
Yes, I wouldn't call it epic, but...
però molt ambiciosa, a l'inici.
but very ambitious, at the beginning.
Ara ho soc molt menys perquè...
Now I am much less because...
Bé, també he pensat...
Well, I've also thought...
Tu m'has preguntat per què no vas dirigir.
You asked me why you didn't direct.
Bé, perquè vaig ser mare, és veritat, un temps,
Well, because I became a mother, it’s true, for a while,
i llavors no vaig dirigir.
And then I didn't address.
Però ara m'ho prenc més, amb més llibertat,
But now I take it more, with more freedom,
que no...
that not...
que no abans.
that not before.
Crec que quan vaig començar tenia com moltes fites, no?
I think that when I started I had many goals, right?
Que jo mateixa me les feia, però...
That I made them myself, but...
Per exemple, hi ha algun tema recurrent, no?
For example, is there a recurring theme, right?
Per exemple, la...
For example, the...
No sé si el teu pare, potser,
I don't know if your father, perhaps,
és un tema que en les teves obres
it is a theme that appears in your works
d'alguna manera va apareixent...
somehow it keeps appearing...
La obra...
The work...
Les obres no són temàtiques, jo penso.
The works are not thematic, I think.
No. Totalment.
No. Totally.
O sigui, mai el teatre o l'art no parla de temes.
That is, theater or art never talks about themes.
El que parla de temes són els manifestos,
What speaks about issues are the manifestos,
bueno, altres coses, fins i tot...
well, other things, even...
S'acosta més als temes.
It gets closer to the themes.
La filosofia, que no...
Philosophy, which does not...
L'art és...
Art is...
Parteix d'altres llocs més misteriosos.
It departs from other more mysterious places.
Per mi són...
For me they are...
Té a veure amb un coneixement que va per una altra línia,
It has to do with a knowledge that goes in another direction,
que és molt més...
that is much more...
Que té a veure amb allò que no entenem, no?
What does it have to do with what we don't understand, right?
De la vida.
Of life.
Jo sempre he estat més ocupada
I have always been busier.
de les coses que crec que no entenia
of the things that I believe I did not understand
que no de les que entenia.
that I didn't understand.
I això és com una curiositat, un impuls, no?
And this is like a curiosity, an impulse, right?
Que...
That...
Però dels temes, no sé quins són els meus temes.
But as for the topics, I don't know what my topics are.
Això és interessant.
This is interesting.
Perquè això ho diuen més els estudiosos o crítics, no?
Because this is said more by scholars or critics, right?
Però... Clar.
But... Of course.
I... Llavors...
I... Then...
Victòria, tu l'any 2000 vas estar convidada
Victoria, you were invited in the year 2000.
a un dels obradors dramatúrgics més potents d'Occident,
to one of the most powerful dramaturgical workshops in the West,
la Royal Club Seattle.
the Royal Club Seattle.
Ens podries explicar una mica com va ser aquesta experiència
Could you explain a bit how this experience was?
allà a la Royal?
there at the Royal?
Molt xulo, vaig conèixer el Mark Ravenhill,
Very cool, I met Mark Ravenhill.
el Harold Pinter vaig conèixer.
I met Harold Pinter.
Sí, va ser molt interessant.
Yes, it was very interesting.
El Harold Pinter, bueno, va venir,
Harold Pinter, well, came.
érem un grup d'escriptors,
we were a group of writers,
bueno, això, te triaven,
well, that, they chose you,
jo vaig enviar una obra i vaig ser escollida,
I submitted a work and I was chosen,
vaig tenir molta sort i vaig anar com a representant,
I was very lucky and went as a representative,
bueno, catalana o espanyola, no ho sé.
Well, Catalan or Spanish, I don't know.
I hi havia el Parabidino d'Itàlia,
And there was the Parabidino of Italy,
hi havia gent molt guai d'autors de tot arreu,
there were really cool people from authors all over.
jo era molt jove, per això.
I was very young, that's why.
I bueno, estàvem allà al teatre del Royal Club,
And well, we were there at the Royal Club theatre,
va venir el Harold Pinter, que va venir amb ulleres de sol,
Harold Pinter came, wearing sunglasses.
i es va seure allà davant i ens va començar a parlar de...
and he sat down in front of us and started talking to us about...
Bueno, va ser molt incòmoda,
Well, it was very uncomfortable,
perquè hi havia una...
because there was a...
Bueno, és llarg, això, eh?
Well, it's long, this, huh?
Bueno...
Well...
Bueno, aquesta anècdota va per llarg, eh?
Well, this anecdote is going to take a while, isn't it?
No, no, és que ara dic,
No, no, it's just that now I say,
això que deies del jardí on m'he fotut,
this that you said about the garden where I’ve gotten myself into,
o sigui, no sé si us ve de gust.
So, I don’t know if you feel like it.
Sí, sí, potser has vist...
Yes, yes, perhaps you have seen...
Jo vull saber l'anècdota del Harold Pinter amb ulleres de sol,
I want to know the anecdote about Harold Pinter with sunglasses.
comença bé, o sigui...
it starts well, I mean...
No, no, és que hi havia un autor serbi
No, no, it was just that there was a Serbian author.
i un autor de Bòsnia, d'acord?
and an author from Bosnia, okay?
Llavors, durant tot el Royal Club,
Then, during the entire Royal Club,
els dies que estàvem allà, clar,
the days we were there, of course,
l'ídol era el bosni, no?
The idol was the bosni, right?
I el serbi era un tio que estava rapat
And the Serbian was a guy who was bald.
i que cada cop s'estava apartant més del grup
and that he was increasingly distancing himself from the group
perquè tothom el mirava...
because everyone was looking at him...
Era l'any 2000, tothom el mirava com...
It was the year 2000, everyone looked at him like...
Bueno, llavors, el tio de Bòsnia va...
Well, then, the guy from Bosnia goes...
Tots havíem de fer una presentació
We all had to do a presentation.
en relació a quin era el nostre lloc d'origen.
in relation to what our place of origin was.
I el tio de Bòsnia va començar,
And the guy from Bosnia started,
doncs, jo no tinc passaport, no tinc papers,
well, I don't have a passport, I don't have papers,
la meva família ha estat...
my family has been...
Bueno, un drama molt fort.
Well, a very intense drama.
Llavors, clar, tothom...
Then, of course, everyone...
Ell era com la víctima,
He was like the victim,
però la persona admirada, també, no?
but the admired person, too, right?
Dins d'un grup de gent progressista, d'esquerra...
Within a group of progressive, left-wing people...
I el serbi era l'estigma, claríssimament, eh?
And the Serb was the stigma, clearly, right?
Això es va anar produint.
This started to happen.
I, a més, el serbi era com molt fort,
And besides, the Serbian was very strong,
amb el cabell rapat, era un tio que generava...
with his hair cropped short, he was a guy who generated...
Bueno, arriba Harold Pinter amb ulleres de sol,
Well, here comes Harold Pinter with sunglasses,
arriba amb una senyora gran,
she arrives with an elderly lady,
la senyora gran s'asseu amb nosaltres,
the old lady sits with us,
ell s'asseu davant amb ulleres de sol
He sits in front with sunglasses on.
i comença a fer un discurs quasi pro-serbi, eh?
"And he starts giving a speech almost pro-Serbian, huh?"
Va ser molt heavy.
It was very intense.
Bueno, com el Peter Hanke, una mica...
Well, like Peter Hanke, a bit...
El Peter Hanke amb la Susan Sontag
Peter Hanke with Susan Sontag
van tenir aquesta discussió,
they had this discussion,
que el Peter Hanke era una mica pro-serbi.
that Peter Hanke was a bit pro-Serbian.
Bueno, el Harold Pinter era ambigü,
Well, Harold Pinter was ambiguous,
però va fer un discurs molt incòmode
but he gave a very awkward speech
on el noi serbi de darrere de tot
where the Serbian boy at the back is
va començar a créixer,
it started to grow,
perquè, clar, era aquest senyor
because, of course, it was this gentleman
que era el nostre ídol, el Harold Pinter,
who was our idol, Harold Pinter,
el Harold Pinter comença a parlar així,
Harold Pinter starts to speak like this,
i el noi vostre...
and your boy...
Bueno, va ser molt incòmode
Well, it was very uncomfortable.
i quan va acabar que tot el seu discurs va ser polític,
and when it ended that all his speech was political,
el Harold Pinter, amb les ulleres de sol, va acabar
Harold Pinter, with sunglasses, finished.
i el noi de Brasil li diu
and the boy from Brazil says to him
bueno, a part de tot aquest discurs que has fet,
well, apart from all this speech you've made,
creu-se en alguna cosa,
believe in something,
hi ha alguna cosa que t'agradi,
Is there something you like?
perquè era un discurs molt pessimista.
because it was a very pessimistic speech.
Es treu les ulleres i diu
He takes off his glasses and says.
ella és el meu amor, la senyora,
she is my love, the lady,
i la va assenyalar la senyora gran.
and the old lady pointed at her.
I va ser tan bonic,
It was so beautiful,
o sigui, imagineu-vos,
that is, imagine,
una hora fent un discurs molt fosc, polític,
an hour giving a very dark, political speech,
que a tots ens estava incomodant,
that was making us all uncomfortable,
i es treu les ulleres i li diu al senyor...
and he takes off his glasses and says to the gentleman...
El tio de Brasil, jo vaig pensar,
The guy from Brazil, I thought,
aquest cumba l'enviarà a la merda, perquè diu
this guy will send him to hell, because he says
hi ha alguna cosa en aquest món que et faci feliç,
is there anything in this world that makes you happy,
que et motivi, alguna cosa optimista,
that motivates you, something optimistic,
i el tio es va treure les ulleres i va dir ella.
And the guy took off his glasses and said to her.
I va assenyalar la senyora que era la seva dona.
He pointed out the lady who was his wife.
Final feliç.
Happy ending.
Final, va ser molt bonic, bueno.
In the end, it was very beautiful, well.
Hòstia, Déu-n'hi-do, Déu-n'hi-do.
Wow, that’s impressive, really impressive.
Sí, sí, va ser molt bonic,
Yes, yes, it was very beautiful,
i després vam conèixer el Mark Ravenhill,
and then we met Mark Ravenhill,
va ser, bueno, molt...
it was, well, very...
Una experiència que ja és...
An experience that is already...
Va estar guai, sí, sí.
It was cool, yes, yes.
I llavors, Nau, tu aquest any,
And then, Nau, you this year,
o sigui, ja hem sortit a Londres,
that is, we have already left for London,
tu has estat amb, no són de Londres,
you have been with, they are not from London,
però has estat fent Billy, Billy Violets, no?
But you've been doing Billy, Billy Violets, right?
Dirigida pel Jan Lauers.
Directed by Jan Lauers.
Com ha estat aquesta experiència,
How has this experience been,
juntament amb un dels referents de teatre europeu,
together with one of the references of European theater,
com és la Knit Company?
How is the Knit Company?
Ens podries explicar una mica, per una banda,
Could you explain a little, on one hand,
la teva experiència com a intèrpret,
your experience as an interpreter,
i després també el procés d'escriptura
and then also the writing process
que vau seguir en el procés.
that you followed in the process.
Sí, és molt interessant, la veritat.
Yes, it's very interesting, truly.
Doncs mira, jo vaig conèixer el Jan
Well, you see, I met Jan.
fent un curs de la Bienal de Venècia,
taking a course at the Venice Biennale,
que dirigia el Rigola fa uns anys,
that Rigola was directing a few years ago,
que muntava aquests workshops
that organized these workshops
amb directors internacionals i tal,
with international directors and such,
i em vaig apuntar, una mica,
and I signed up, a little,
una mica cegues,
a little blind,
jo havia vist un espectacle del Lauers
I had seen a show by the Lauers.
que m'havia agradat, però només un,
that I had liked, but only one,
i era com, bueno, va, sí.
And it was like, well, okay, yes.
Vaig a provar amb aquest tio,
I'm going to try with this guy.
que vaig intuir que m'agradava.
that I sensed I liked.
I, efectivament, ens vam entendre molt bé,
I, indeed, we understood each other very well.
tant que l'últim dia de curs ell em va dir,
so that on the last day of class he told me,
algun dia farem alguna cosa junts.
One day we will do something together.
I vaig dir, tio, quan vulguis, estic available.
I said, dude, whenever you want, I'm available.
I llavors, efectivament, al cap d'uns anys,
And then, indeed, after a few years,
perquè les seves agendes són,
because their agendas are,
que ell ja ho té tancat tot fins al 2025, ara,
that he already has everything closed until 2025, now,
però al cap d'uns anys em va trucar,
but after a few years he called me,
i em va dir que muntàvem aquest espectacle,
and he told me that we were putting on this show,
coproducció amb Espanya, i Bèlgica, i tal, i quants.
co-production with Spain, and Belgium, and such, and how many.
El text és molt interessant,
The text is very interesting,
perquè és una adaptació libèrrima de Shakespeare,
because it is a very free adaptation of Shakespeare,
de les tragèdies de Shakespeare,
of Shakespeare's tragedies,
feta pel seu fill, que és dramaturg i poeta,
made by her son, who is a playwright and poet,
el fill no de Shakespeare, sinó el de Lauers.
the son not of Shakespeare, but of Lauers.
Gràcies per la clara.
Thank you for the clear one.
Gràcies, gràcies.
Thank you, thank you.
I és molt interessant, perquè el que fa
And it is very interesting because what it does
és deconstruir, absolutament,
it is to deconstruct, absolutely,
no sé si veu, tenc l'ocasió de veure-la,
I don't know if you see her, I have the opportunity to see her.
Jo no la vaig poder veure.
I couldn't see her.
Deconstruir el...
Deconstruct the...
d'alguna manera els highlights
somehow the highlights
de les tragèdies de Shakespeare,
of the tragedies of Shakespeare,
des d'una cosa molt poètica,
from something very poetic,
molt centrat en la fonètica, gairebé,
very focused on phonetics, almost,
en el so de la paraula, hi ha molta repetició,
In the sound of the word, there is much repetition,
i una mica va al moll de l'os de les escenes,
and a little goes to the crux of the matter in the scenes,
posant la dona en el centre,
putting the woman at the center,
i posant una mica en entreditxo
and putting it a little in doubt
si hem de venerar tant a Shakespeare,
if we have to revere Shakespeare so much,
perquè en el fons era un misògen i un capullo,
because deep down he was a misogynist and a jerk,
cosa que no apunta malament,
something that doesn't look bad,
i és interessant la lectura,
and the reading is interesting,
i a part, des d'una poètica,
and apart, from a poetic perspective,
també bastant... bastant interessant,
also quite... quite interesting,
no sé si... bona o dolenta això hi ha cadascú,
I don't know if... good or bad, that's for everyone to decide.
o sigui, també em costa molt jutjar-ho des de dintre,
I mean, it's also very difficult for me to judge it from the inside.
i perquè, a més, un text molt complicat
and because, moreover, a very complicated text
d'aprendre'ns de memòria, perquè té molta repetició,
to memorize us, because it has a lot of repetition,
i moltes... no era fàcil,
and many... it wasn't easy,
però, en canvi, amb imatges molt potents, no?
but, on the other hand, with very powerful images, right?
I... i després el procés,
I... and then the process,
també molt, molt gustós, perquè allà, bueno,
also very, very tasty, because there, well,
estan subvencionats fins les cejas,
they are subsidized up to their eyebrows,
i això els dona molta tranquil·litat a l'hora de crear.
And this gives them a lot of peace of mind when it comes to creating.
Justament el que dèiem abans, que aquí
Just what we said before, that here
els processos de creació són molt curts,
the creation processes are very short,
i més val portar-ho tot ben preparat de casa,
and it's better to take everything well prepared from home,
perquè saps que ràpid, ràpid hauré d'anar a solucionar,
because you know that quickly, quickly I will have to go and fix it,
i aixecar l'obra, a veure si puc començar a fer passes,
and lift the work, to see if I can start making steps,
perquè no ens pilli el toro,
so that the bull doesn't catch us,
i en canvi allà és tot el contrari.
And on the contrary, there it is the complete opposite.
Allà tenen mesos i mesos d'assajos, de prova,
There they have months and months of rehearsals, of testing,
i llavors es respira una energia diferent a la sala d'assaig,
and then a different energy is felt in the rehearsal room,
i això és el que a mi em va interessar més.
And that is what interested me the most.
No només per part del director,
Not only from the director,
que també, i que és molt guai,
that too, and it’s really cool,
veure algú que no pateix,
to see someone who does not suffer,
sinó que va allà, i abans de començar diu
but he goes there, and before starting he says
avui potser tirem tot aquest assaig a la bessura,
today maybe we'll throw all this rehearsal in the trash,
però estarem provant una idea que he tingut,
but we will be trying an idea that I have had,
que em ve de gust, que bla, bla, bla,
that I feel like, that blah, blah, blah,
i et comencen a engatusar, i estàs allà provant
and they start to entice you, and you are there trying
algo que saps que potser no en sortirà res de bo.
Something that you know might not turn out well.
I això és algo que aquí
And this is something that here
hauríem de lluitar per tenir.
we should fight to have.
Perquè de mesos d'assaig, quan vau fer?
Because of months of rehearsal, when did you do it?
Vam fer separat, setmanes separades,
We did it separately, weeks apart,
però van ser gairebé uns quatre mesos.
but it was almost four months.
I a tu t'ho van poder pagar?
And could they pay you for it?
Clar, clar, a més ens van pagar
Of course, of course, they also paid us.
els actors espanyols, Airbnb's,
the Spanish actors, Airbnb's,
i llet d'avió, i tot amunt i avall.
and airplane milk, and everything up and down.
Clar, és que jo penso que l'Argentina és així,
Of course, I think that Argentina is like this,
però l'Argentina és així, s'estan un any fent un obra,
but Argentina is like that, they spend a year doing a work,
però no cobren ningú.
but they don't charge anyone.
No, no, allà estaven ben pagats,
No, no, they were well paid there.
però és que per la cultura nosaltres
but it is that for culture we
jo no em sé els tant percents,
I don't know the percentages.
no arribem als dos percents,
we don't reach two percent,
i ells en canvi tenen més diners.
And they on the other hand have more money.
Sí, mira, l'altre dia la Margarida Truguet
Yes, look, the other day Margarida Truguet
en el programa ens ho deia,
the program told us so,
que tot el pressupost,
that the whole budget,
bé, feia com l'equiparació de l'òpera de París,
well, it was like the equivalence of the Paris opera,
equival a tot el pressupost
equates to the entire budget
de cultura de Catalunya.
of the culture of Catalonia.
Veus? Sí, sí.
You see? Yes, yes.
És així de bèstia, sí, sí.
It is that brutal, yes, yes.
Per tant, jo el procés el vaig disfrutar molt.
Therefore, I enjoyed the process a lot.
Al cap i a la fi va ser de dir
Ultimately, it was to be said.
uau, ojalà, ojalà
wow, I wish, I wish
a Catalunya es pogués viure així
In Catalonia, one could live like this.
del teatre, saps?
from the theatre, you know?
Perquè no només milloraria
Because it would not only improve.
el nostre benestar,
our well-being,
el dels artistes,
the one of the artists,
sinó que també milloraria
but it would also improve
la qualitat de les obres.
the quality of the works.
La qualitat de la cultura seria més alta.
The quality of culture would be higher.
Totalment. Però bueno, arribarà potser algun dia.
Totally. But well, maybe it will happen one day.
A veure. Ojalà.
Let's see. Hopefully.
Doncs res,
Well then,
m'agradaria acabar també d'alguna manera
I would also like to finish in some way.
que, així,
that, thus,
que em poguéssiu citar, sé que és una pregunta
that you could quote me, I know it's a question
també així com difícil, però
also difficult, but
aquelles formes d'escriure autors,
those ways of writing authors,
autores que us acompanyen sempre
authors that accompany you always
o que siguin com referents als que
or that they serve as references to those who
sempre aneu a parar, no?
you always end up in a spot, don't you?
Teniu alguns d'aquests referents?
Do you have any of these references?
Jo sí que els tinc, malauradament.
I do have them, unfortunately.
O sigui, hi ha un punt que em fa
That is, there is a point that makes me...
vergonya perquè
shame because
m'agradaria, fins i tot m'agradaria
I would like, in fact I would even like.
semblar-me a ell, a vegades.
to seem like him, sometimes.
O a ella. Són dos referents molt forts
Or to her. They are two very strong references.
que, a més, són, d'alguna manera, els
that, moreover, are, in some way, the
motors amb els quals vaig començar a escriure.
engines with which I started writing.
Jo vaig treballar amb el Rodrigo
I worked with Rodrigo.
García quan tenia...
García when he was...
Jo tenia 12 o 13 anys.
I was 12 or 13 years old.
Dos anys, no? Perquè sí, amb 7 anys.
Two years, right? Because yes, at 7 years old.
Hòstia, que traumàtic,
Holy shit, how traumatic!
amb dos anys, amb el Rodrigo García. No, tenia 3...
At two years old, with Rodrigo García. No, I was 3...
13 o algo així.
13 or something like that.
I vaig... I, a més, era una obra
I was... And, moreover, it was a work.
molt trash i tal, però jo encantat de la vida.
very trash and such, but I'm really happy with life.
Jo també, clar, de petit era un gamberro i tal,
Me too, of course, when I was little I was a troublemaker and all that.
i Rodrigo García, no, fotrant
and Rodrigo García, no, messing around
d'hòsties a l'escenari mentre et menges
"Of punches on stage while you eat."
un Frankfurt de no sé què, tirant
a Frankfurt of I don't know what, throwing
ketchup per sobre, i jo, sí, sí, venga, d'on hi ha que ir?
Ketchup on top, and me, yes, yes, come on, where do we have to go?
Sí, jo ho he vist, això. A mi m'encantava.
Yes, I saw it. I loved it.
Això era un espectacle, que es deia, compré una pala
This was a spectacle, as they said, I bought a shovel.
en Ikea per acabar-m'hi tumba, que es va fer aquí al Mercat de les Flors,
at Ikea to finish lying down, which was done here at the Mercat de les Flors,
però jo al Mercat de les Flors no ho vaig fer perquè
but I didn't do it at the Mercat de les Flors because
l'actor que tenien, clar, era menor d'edat,
the actor they had, of course, was underage,
doncs quan feien bolos
so when they were doing gigs
en places on havien d'estar més de dos
in places where there had to be more than two
setmanes, havien d'agafar un cover
weeks, they had to get a cover
pel nen i érem dos nens que ens ho partíem.
for the child and we were two children who shared it.
Llavors, per exemple, a França vam estar fent-ho els dos
Then, for example, in France we were both doing it.
durant un mes i pico i...
for a little over a month and...
I tinc un record molt guai d'allò, però a part,
I have a very cool memory of that, but apart from that,
jo vaig acabar aquell espectacle
I finished that show.
i vaig començar a escriure.
I started to write.
Vaig dir, buà, m'ha encantat com escriu aquest tio,
I said, wow, I love how this guy writes,
i vaig començar a intentar escriure
I started trying to write.
com escrivia el Rodrigo i tal.
how Rodrigo used to write and such.
I amb el Marcel, d'alguna
And with Marcel, somehow.
manera, sempre és un de les coses...
way, it is always one of the things...
Un referent. Un referent.
A reference. A reference.
Ens agrada molt llegir-lo, ens agrada molt
We really enjoy reading it, we like it a lot.
també com dirigeix. És un tipus de teatre
also how it directs. It's a type of theater
molt concret que tampoc és el que acabem fent nosaltres.
very specific that is not what we end up doing either.
Però està allà com a motor i com a referent.
But it is there as a driving force and as a reference.
Però que sí que és un referent importantíssim.
But it is indeed a very important reference.
I l'Angélica
And Angélica.
és, clar, d'alguna manera
Yes, of course, in some way.
són el padre y la madre, per mi,
they are the father and the mother, for me,
del teatre contemporani.
of contemporary theatre.
D'un tipus de teatre contemporani,
Of a type of contemporary theater,
però que és el que a mi m'ha enganxat més, perquè
but what has caught my attention the most, because
també et podria parlar d'autors
I could also talk to you about authors.
anglesos, de
English, of
Chopin & Fokin, amb quinze anys llegeixo,
Chopin & Fokin, at fifteen I read,
el Matt Ravenhill o aquest tipus d'autors.
Matt Ravenhill or this type of authors.
D'In Your Face, que són tota aquesta onada
"From In Your Face, what this whole wave is about."
d'anglesos i tal, i també em va marcar.
of English and such, and it also marked me.
Però després, a posteriori,
But then, afterwards,
m'adono que no em va marcar la meitat com
I realize that it didn't mark me halfway as
m'han marcat aquests altres.
they have marked these others for me.
I tu, Victòria, podries dir-ne alguns?
And you, Victòria, could you name a few?
Mira, jo tinc influència també,
Look, I have influence too.
si parlem de la influència directa
if we talk about direct influence
d'autors, d'autors argentins, perquè
of authors, of Argentine authors, because
són els que més he llegit a l'Espregel
they are the ones I have read the most at the Espregel
Vural, Federico León, m'agrada moltíssim.
Vural, Federico León, I like him very much.
Molts autors,
Many authors,
el Ricardo Bartís
the Ricardo Bartís
com a director, també vaig estar...
as a director, I also was...
Bueno, hi ha molta gent argentina que m'agrada.
Well, there are many Argentine people that I like.
També m'agraden molt anglesos,
I also really like English people.
la Caril Churchill m'agrada molt, però
I like Caril Churchill very much, but
jo llegeixo molt poc.
I read very little.
O sigui, llegeixo també molta
That is, I also read a lot.
literatura. No sé, ara estava
literature. I don't know, now I was
pensant, qui m'ha influenciat de veritat?
Thinking, who has truly influenced me?
Doncs igual els escriptors místics,
Well, perhaps the mystical writers,
que és el que a mi m'agrada més llegir,
what I like to read the most,
o no sé si és ben bé el teatre
or I don't know if it's really the theater
el que més influeix.
the most influential.
Totalment.
Totally.
Justament acabes agafant referents
You just ended up taking references.
de tot arreu, i tant de la literatura
from everywhere, and so much from literature
per suposat que cada cop
of course every time
m'agrada més, però també
I like it more, but also.
el cine, diria, saps?
The cinema, I would say, you know?
A mi se'ns nota mogollón, que m'agrada
You can really tell that I like it.
mogollón també de Tarantinos,
a ton of Tarantinos,
Scorseses, Brian de Palma,
Scorsese, Brian de Palma,
i tot aquest cine de gànsters
and all this gangster cinema
dels 90's. Totalment.
From the 90s. Totally.
Doncs res,
Well, nothing,
acabem doncs amb aquests referents,
let's therefore end with these references,
i com sempre, donar-vos
and as always, give you
les gràcies per venir, i que
thank you for coming, and that
també donar gràcies al Ferran Dordal,
also thank Ferran Dordal,
que és el director de la revista Pausa.
who is the director of the magazine Pausa.
Gràcies al Ferran Dordal! Gràcies al Ferran Dordal!
Thanks to Ferran Dordal! Thanks to Ferran Dordal!
Gràcies Ferran!
Thank you, Ferran!
I a la Sílvia de l'Anyó, i a tot l'equip de
And to Sílvia de l'Anyó, and to the whole team of
Beckett, que sempre ens ajuden a que
Beckett, who always helps us to that
tot això tiri endavant. Gràcies Sílvia de l'Anyó!
I hope all this goes ahead. Thank you Sílvia de l'Anyó!
Sílvia, te queremos!
Sílvia, we love you!
Doncs res, això és
Well, that's it.
Àrea 44-45, i
Area 44-45, and
ens veiem ben aviat.
We'll see each other quite soon.
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