Tertúlia MANGAZÍN - Mars i les temàtiques que tracta
Josep Manga
Mangazín
Tertúlia MANGAZÍN - Mars i les temàtiques que tracta
Esteu sentint un tema que m'ha semblat simplement molt idoni,
You are listening to a song that has seemed very suitable to me.
ja que ens parla d'una mort d'estiu, espontani, jove,
since it speaks to us of a summer death, spontaneous, young,
amb totes les pors que comporta pels implicats.
with all the fears it entails for those involved.
I és que avui parlem de Mars, una sèrie que ens transporta més de 20 anys enrere,
And today we're talking about Mars, a series that takes us back more than 20 years.
tractant desitjos, anells, aficions i problemes ben actuals.
dealing with wishes, rings, hobbies, and very current problems.
Amb les ulleres de sol, servir-me d'escut covard,
With sunglasses, serving as a coward's shield,
repasso els malucs de totes les noies que veig travessant la plaça.
I check out the hips of all the girls I see crossing the square.
Enamorat de la mirada fugissera d'una estranya,
In love with the fleeting glance of a stranger,
incisat pensant que potser mai més la tindré,
incised thinking that perhaps I will never have it again,
i vaig cantant, fuixet pel carrer com un babau.
I walk singing, softly down the street like a fool.
Aquesta cançó que tinc al cap és que m'he llevat i s'ha enganxat com les llaganyes.
This song that I have in my head is that I woke up and it stuck to me like glue.
Vaig cantant, fuixet pel carrer com un nen gran.
I walk singing softly down the street like a big child.
Bon dia, Laura Tartuliana, ja amb molta experiència en aquest podcast.
Good morning, Laura Tartuliana, already with a lot of experience in this podcast.
Culpa meva que no fem més episodis, també ho he de dir,
It's my fault that we don't make more episodes, I have to say that as well.
perquè ella sempre està aquí.
because she is always here.
Hola, molt bé, molt contenta d'estar aquí una altra vegada.
Hello, very well, very happy to be here once again.
Ja en parlarem, però ha estat curiós el fet que parlem d'aquesta obra,
We'll talk about it, but it's been interesting that we're talking about this work,
perquè ens l'hem llegit una mica a l'hora, no?
because we have read it a bit on time, right?
Sí, sí, sí.
Yes, yes, yes.
De fet, tu la tenies, no te l'havies començat a llegir,
In fact, you had it, you hadn't started reading it.
me la vas recomanar tu mateix.
you recommended it to me yourself.
Sí, que me l'havia començat a llegir el primer volum, ja està, només.
Yes, I had started reading the first volume, that's it, just that.
Tenia quatre volums i només el primer.
I had four volumes and only the first one.
Que me la vas recomanar.
That you recommended it to me.
Jo tenia moltes ganes de llegir alguna cosa així, tipus drama d'institut,
I was really eager to read something like this, a type of high school drama.
i ja està, o sigui, és que va ser veure...
And that's it, I mean, it was just seeing...
Fui a llegir una mica el primer tomo,
I went to read a bit of the first volume,
i vaig dir, vinga, per davant, i me la vaig llegir jo abans que tu, sí, sí.
I said, come on, in front, and I read it before you did, yes, yes.
Sí, estic molt content de parlar d'aquesta obra,
Yes, I am very happy to talk about this work,
una obra que, tal com passa darrerament,
a work that, as happens lately,
he completat per poder-ne parlar al podcast.
I have completed it in order to talk about it on the podcast.
Això no vol dir que no hi hagi un interès en oir,
This does not mean that there is no interest in hearing,
sinó que és més aviat una excusa per acabar de llegir.
but rather it's more of an excuse to finish reading.
L'altre dia en parlàvem, de fet, que sóc del tipus d'aquella persona
The other day we were talking about it, in fact, that I am the type of that person.
que li encarten els inicis, no?, començar a llegir.
that they like the beginnings, right? starting to read.
Per exemple, vol dir que avui em va passar el mateix, el podcast passat.
For example, it means that today the same thing happened to me, in the last podcast.
M'encanta començar, però les continuacions, és a dir,
I love to start, but the continuations, that is,
completar l'obra, no sóc del tipus de persona
complete the work, I am not the type of person
que només pugui centrar-se en una obra sola,
that can only focus on a single work,
i en canvi tu ets al revés.
and instead, you are the opposite.
Esclar, és que jo no... O sigui, a veure, jo si començo una obra...
Of course, it's just that I don't... I mean, let's see, if I start a work...
És com començar llibres i deixar-los per la meitat i no acabar-se.
It's like starting books and leaving them unfinished.
No, no pot ser. O començar una pel·li, parar-la i dir
No, it can't be. Or start a movie, pause it and say.
que no sé mai com ha acabat aquesta pel·li.
I never know how this movie ends.
No, o sigui, clar, em va sorprendre, això.
No, I mean, of course, it surprised me, that.
Sí, perquè és com, bueno, sé una mica quin és el rotllo de l'obra,
Yes, because it's like, well, I know a little bit about the whole deal of the play,
sé per on va, i llavors dic, ja la continuaré.
I know where it goes, and then I say, I'll continue it.
Ja la continuaré, vaig a començar amb aquesta nova obra, a veure de què va.
I will continue it later, I'm going to start with this new work, let's see what it's about.
Ara vull començar aquesta altra, que m'acabo de comprar,
Now I want to start this other one that I just bought.
o que tinc aquí, que m'han parlat bé i tal.
or what I have here, that they have spoken well to me and such.
Això em porta, per exemple, a llegir els finals de les sèries que he comprat
This brings me, for example, to read the endings of the series I have bought.
una mica després que ho facin persones a qui jo mateix els he deixat aquests còmics.
A little later, after people to whom I myself have lent these comics do it.
Clar, perquè quan fas això, o sigui, per exemple, en març,
Sure, because when you do this, I mean, for example, in March,
et vas rellegir el primer tomo.
you reread the first volume.
Sí, sí, sí.
Yes, yes, yes.
I amb Golden Camus també, te la vas tornar a llençar.
And with Golden Camus too, you threw it away again.
Sí, sí, sí.
Yes, yes, yes.
Jo sóc molt de rellegir.
I really enjoy rereading.
I una altra vegada, perquè si no, no sé de què va, la veritat.
And another time, because if not, I don't know what it's about, to be honest.
Ja, ja, home, normal, vull dir, passaria també.
Yes, yes, well, normal, I mean, that would happen too.
Perquè poden passar anys perfectament fins que m'hi torni a posar, llavors.
Because it can take years perfectly until I get back to it, then.
Això ha passat en març, va passar en Golden Camus,
This happened in March, it happened in Golden Camus,
i actualment està passant en Videogel Eye.
And it is currently happening in Videogel Eye.
Sí, exacte, que també me l'estàs deixant.
Yes, exactly, you are also leaving it for me.
Una sèrie que fa, jo diria que potser tres anys ben bons,
A series that I would say has been around for maybe three good years,
que la vaig comprar de segona mà i encara no me l'he acabat de llegir.
that I bought it second-hand and I still haven't finished reading it.
O sigui, està allà, m'encanta, però clar, una cosa és que m'agradi,
So, it's there, I love it, but of course, one thing is that I like it,
l'altra que l'hagi acabat de llegir, sencera.
the other one that I have just read, entirely.
Són dues coses diferents, com podeu entendre.
They are two different things, as you can understand.
O sigui, però no hi ha cap sèrie que tu comencis i diguis
So, there's no series that you start and say?
és que estic ultraenganxat, l'he d'acabar.
It's that I'm ultra-hooked, I have to finish it.
Potser és que no t'enganxa prou la sèrie que comences i dius, bé...
Maybe it's that the series you start doesn't grab you enough and you say, well...
No, jo crec que no és per això.
No, I don't think it's because of that.
És difícil d'analitzar, però en tot cas sí que és veritat que em passa
It is difficult to analyze, but in any case, it is true that it happens to me.
que si és molt repetitiva, per exemple, això em passa amb obres de Rumiko Takahashi,
that if it is very repetitive, for example, this happens to me with works by Rumiko Takahashi,
per exemple, en Ranma, l'amo, Indy Asha...
for example, Ranma, the master, Indy Asha...
Sí, sí, que avança molt a poc a poc.
Yes, yes, it is progressing very slowly.
Si avança molt a poc a poc, és difícil que m'hi acabi de posar.
If it progresses very slowly, it's difficult for me to get fully into it.
Avui parlem de març, parlem de...
Today we talk about March, we talk about...
d'obres de romans.
of works of novels.
Volia treure el tema de Video Get Lied també perquè és una obra també de romans,
I also wanted to bring up the topic of Video Get Lied because it is also a work of novels.
és a dir, que és bastant diferent de l'obra que comentarem avui.
That is to say, it is quite different from the work we will discuss today.
I sí que et volia preguntar això, què t'està semblant Video Get Lied?
And I did want to ask you this, what do you think of Video Get Lied?
És una obra, això, molt diferent, amb un to radicalment diferent.
It is a work, this, very different, with a radically different tone.
Clar, a veure, comparat amb març, és que març és polodrama.
Sure, let's see, compared to March, it's just that March is polodrama.
Video Get Lied és una barreja entre...
Video Get Lied is a mix between...
Sí, va d'adolescents hormonats que tenen els seus drames,
Yes, it's about hormone-driven teenagers who have their dramas.
però no són els drames del nivell de març.
but they are not the dramas of the level of March.
Per mi Video Get Lied, o sigui, jo...
For me, Video Get Lied, that is, I...
que és del mateix autor, és com la meva història d'institut preferida,
which is by the same author, is like my favorite high school story,
perquè a més me la vaig llegir a l'institut i em va flipar.
because I also read it in high school and it blew my mind.
I no sé per què no havia llegit abans Video Get Lied, perquè és del mateix autor,
And I don't know why I hadn't read Video Get Lied before, because it's by the same author.
i crec que potser vaig llegir l'argument i vaig pensar
I think that maybe I read the plot and thought.
eh, ja no és d'institut, què és això d'una tia que surt a dins d'un vídeo,
Hey, it's not high school anymore, what is this about a girl appearing in a video?
què serà, futurista?
What will it be, futurist?
I no sé si diria que m'està agradant més inclús que ells, eh? No ho sé.
I don't know if I would say I'm enjoying it even more than them, you know? I don't know.
De fet, si no recordo malament, Video Get Lied va arribar abans que ells,
In fact, if I remember correctly, Video Get Lied arrived before them,
a publicar-se.
to be published.
Sí, sí, es nota, es nota perquè...
Yes, yes, it's noticeable, it's noticeable because...
Es nota en tot, en el dibuix i en la forma de narrar la història,
It shows in everything, in the drawing and in the way of telling the story.
que és molt similar, però Video Get Lied és com més me renota, saps?
which is very similar, but Video Get Lied resonates with me more, you know?
Hi ha com més...
There are more...
Sí, sí.
Yes, yes.
Bueno, s'accepta en altres coses que potser per una revista com la Jam en el moment
Well, it is accepted in other things that perhaps for a magazine like Jam at the moment.
doncs potser no s'haurien acceptat.
then perhaps they would not have been accepted.
Però bé.
But well.
Podríem dir que no, però...
We could say no, but...
Sí, exacte. Però bé.
Yes, exactly. But well.
No ens allarguem més, que això d'avui és un simple monogràfic estigüent
Let’s not prolong this any further, as today’s event is simply a thematic special.
d'una sèrie que és en març, un nom molt ben trobat pel seu significat,
of a series that is in March, a name very well found for its meaning,
però fatal pel seu, deixeu-m'ho dir.
but terrible for his, let me say it.
I a l'últim manga difícil de localitzar Google
And the last manga is difficult to locate on Google.
podria posar exemples de Parasite, de Subaru, de Rainbow, d'Arte i molts altres,
I could give examples of Parasite, Subaru, Rainbow, Arte and many others,
perquè març, així tal com són, es pot referir al mes de març,
because March, just as it is, can refer to the month of March,
mentre que escrita d'anglès podem estar parlant del déu de la guerra Mart,
while written in English we might be talking about the god of war Mars,
del planeta Mart.
from planet Mars.
I de moltíssimes altres coses, no faig conya,
And about many other things, I'm not joking,
que si aneu a la Wikipedia, a la part aquesta de desambiguació,
that if you go to Wikipedia, to this disambiguation part,
us trobareu una empresa, una barra de xocolata,
you will find a company, a chocolate bar,
poblacions que es diuen així arreu del món,
populations that are called that all around the world,
també personatges de cèl·lula,
also cell characters,
sèries, pel·lícules, títols de pel·lícules i sèries,
series, movies, movie and series titles,
cantants, grups de música, en fi...
singers, music bands, in short...
Jo m'ho he buscat abans, per refrescar el nom de personatges,
I looked it up earlier to refresh the names of the characters.
i m'ha sortit d'una sèrie de policies o alguna cosa així,
I've come out of a series of police or something like that.
i crec que és japonesa, no me'n recordo, però ha sigut com que és...
I think she is Japanese, I don't remember, but it's been like...
Sí, sí, o sigui, has de buscar específicament març, manga...
Yes, yes, I mean, you have to specifically look for March, manga...
Març, manga, sí, al final m'ho he buscat així...
March, sleeve, yes, in the end I asked for it like this...
Fins i tot Fuyumi Shouryo, amb el nom de l'autora,
Even Fuyumi Shouryo, with the author's name,
és una conya, però sí que és veritat que hi ha noms que són més fàcils de trobar de sèries de manga.
It's a joke, but it is true that there are names that are easier to find from manga series.
Del que parlem avui és del març manga, amb una M al principi, una A, una R i una S al final,
What we are talking about today is manga March, with an M at the beginning, an A, an R, and an S at the end.
una obra escrita i dibuixada per Fuyumi Shouryo entre els anys 96 i 2000,
a work written and drawn by Fuyumi Shouryo between the years 96 and 2000,
a la revista Besat Sufren, de l'editorial Kodansha,
in the magazine Besat Sufren, from the Kodansha publishing house,
un drama i un romanç psicològic que potser durant la nostra adolescència va passar pràcticament desapercebut,
a drama and a psychological romance that perhaps went almost unnoticed during our adolescence,
però que gràcies a les edicions que se n'estan fent en diferents països se'n continua parlant,
but thanks to the editions that are being made in different countries, it is still being talked about,
i de fet força bé,
and in fact quite well,
no he vist ningú que hagi dit que no li ha agradat ni tan sols una mica.
I haven't seen anyone say that they didn't like it even a little bit.
Però el que no vam poder fer a la nostra adolescència, que és llegir març,
But what we couldn't do in our adolescence, which is read March,
ho hem fet ara, seguint la dinàmica de quan anàvem a l'institut.
We did it now, following the dynamic of when we were in high school.
Com sempre al principi explicarem una mica de què va aquesta sèrie,
As always, at the beginning we will explain a bit about what this series is about,
anirem introduint alguns temes, però per parlar-ne bé haurem de fer espòilers,
we will introduce some topics, but to discuss them well we will have to provide spoilers,
així que us avisarem quan ja decidim no fer-nos.
So we will let you know when we decide not to do it.
De moment doncs us podem dir que tenim davant un parell de protagonistes que són la Kira i el Rei,
For now, we can tell you that we have a couple of protagonists in front of us, Kira and the King.
són dos estudiants de primer de batxillerat japonès, és a dir, tenen uns 15-16 anys,
They are two first-year Japanese high school students, that is to say, they are about 15-16 years old.
la Kira sembla que és la típica noia introvertida, tímida, que no té gaire relació amb els seus companys de classe,
Kira seems to be the typical introverted, shy girl who doesn't have much interaction with her classmates.
i al contrari tenim el Rei, el típic infant terrible, guapo, edgy, popular...
And on the contrary, we have the King, the typical terrible child, handsome, edgy, popular...
Sí, malote...
Yes, tough guy...
Exacte. Rebel en un sentit naïf, podríem dir, que godeix tenint una vida despreocupada
Exactly. A rebel in a naïve sense, we could say, who enjoys having a carefree life.
tant pels estudis com per les seves relacions sexuals amb diferents noies.
both for his studies and for his sexual relationships with different girls.
Sí, és com el Popu, que té la moto, que és guapíssim, que està arribant de rega...
Yes, it's like Popu, who has the bike, who is very handsome, who is arriving from watering...
Que fa campana quan li peta...
It rings the bell when it suits him...
Sí, que tot li dóna igual...
Yes, he doesn't care about anything...
Sí, sí, seria una mica això.
Yes, yes, that would be a bit of that.
I la Kira, per cert, és una apassionada de l'art i el dibuix,
And Kira, by the way, is passionate about art and drawing.
mentre que al Rei li encanten les curses de motos, o sigui, molt relacionat tot.
while the King loves motorcycle races, that is, everything is very related.
Aquí hi ha, però, molta més profunditat, molta més teca,
Here, however, there is much more depth, much more substance,
si no, probablement no faríem aquest programa.
If not, we probably wouldn't be doing this program.
Per mi és com una mena de mescla entre Paredes Kiss, Marmalade Boy i Banana Fish,
For me, it's like a mix between Paredes Kiss, Marmalade Boy, and Banana Fish.
que qui hagi llegit les tres obres entendrà una mica per on vaig,
whoever has read the three works will understand a bit where I am going.
és a dir, una mica de romans, però també una mica de filosofia vital, no?
That is to say, a bit of the Romans, but also a bit of vital philosophy, right?
Cap a on va la teva vida, també problemes amb la llei, també,
Where is your life heading, also problems with the law, also.
i altres coses de les que en parlarem.
and other things that we will talk about.
A tu quina sensació et va donar quan vas començar a llegir-la?
What feeling did it give you when you started reading it?
O sigui, quina...
So, which...
Clar, a mi em va recordar molt a Nana, Paredes Kiss, sí, les obres de la Yathawa,
Of course, it reminded me a lot of Nana, Paredes Kiss, yes, the works of Yathawa.
perquè, per exemple, a Paredes Kiss també tens la... els noms no els recordo,
because, for example, in Paredes Kiss you also have the... I can't remember the names,
recordo el nom del George, que és el noi, que també és així com el Popu,
I remember the name of George, who is the boy, who is also like Popu.
també és com el Ote, és molt característic...
it's also like the Ote, it's very characteristic...
Sí.
Yes.
Té un cotxe...
He has a car...
Sí, sí.
Yes, yes.
Saps? És així com, va, deixa'm estar, no sé què.
You know? It's like this, come on, just leave me alone, I don't know what.
I ella és com... no és tan sumisa com la Kira, no és tan tranquil·la ni tan pacífica,
She is like... she is not as submissive as Kira, she is not as calm or as peaceful.
però sí que té aquest puntet de... no? I després va agafant més caràcter, ella.
but it does have that little point of... right? And then she gradually takes on more character.
Llavors aquí ja vaig dir, vale, s'assembla bastant, m'hi recordo.
Then here I said, okay, it looks quite similar, I remember it.
Però tractant temes molt més profuns, o sigui, en aquest sentit ja se'n va més cap a Nana, una miqueta.
But dealing with much deeper themes, that is to say, in this sense it leans more towards Nana, a little bit.
Temes ja... bueno, més complexes, més dramàtics, que, bueno, no farem espòilers,
Themes already... well, more complex, more dramatic, which we won't spoil.
perquè ja els farem d'aquí una estona.
because we will do them in a little while.
Ja els farem d'aquí una estona.
We'll do them in a little while.
Però vaja, que si us agraden històries d'institut amb un punt així de drama i històries romàntiques,
But come on, if you like high school stories with a bit of drama and romantic tales,
jo les recomano. I sobretot si és això, si els agrada Paradisquís...
I recommend them. And especially if that's the case, if they like Paradisquís...
També inclús a la Yowatase, una miqueta, però sense el punt de comèdia, perquè no té tant de punt de comèdia.
Also including Yowatase a bit, but without the comedic element, because it doesn't have as much of a comedic touch.
Clar, no té comèdia.
Of course, it's not a comedy.
Però algunes parts de la Yowatase...
But some parts of the Yowatase...
Jo també pensava en Hana Yoridango, no me lo digas con flores,
I was also thinking about Hana Yoridango, don't tell me with flowers.
una sèrie que és tan famosa de la Yuko Kamio, que ha tingut adaptacions fins i tot a live action,
a series that is so famous by Yuko Kamio, which has had adaptations even in live action,
que hi ha drames i tot això.
that there are dramas and all that.
Sobretot pel dibuix i per determinades coses que passen, no?
Especially for the drawing and for certain things that happen, right?
Però vaja, sí, podem trobar com referències a diferents coses o coses que hem llegit ens poden recordar això.
But well, yes, we can find references to different things or things we have read can remind us of this.
Però perquè hem llegit moltes coses abans que això.
But because we have read many things before this.
Clar, aquesta és una sèrie que potser nosaltres, per l'edat que tenim,
Sure, this is a series that perhaps we, given our age,
potser hauríem pogut llegir als anys 90 i que no va ser així perquè no estava disponible, no?
Perhaps we could have read in the 90s and it wasn't so because it wasn't available, right?
I...
I...
Clar, que si hem llegit en aquell moment ens hauria donat una sensació diferent, segurament.
Of course, if we had read it at that moment it would have given us a different feeling, for sure.
Ens hauríem pensat potser que és una cosa més nova o que ens hauria donat una sensació potser més d'innovació
We might have thought that it is something newer or that it would have given us a feeling of perhaps more innovation.
i hi ha coses que potser ens recorden ara, com que hem llegit tantes coses,
and there are things that perhaps remind us now, like that we have read so many things,
que ens recorden altres sèries, no només de manga, sinó en general a obres de cultura.
that remind us of other series, not only manga, but in general of works of culture.
Home, a mi sí que em sembla que no és tan similar a les altres perquè és això,
Home, I do think it is not as similar to the others because it is this,
els temes que tracta, a banda de ser una història d'amor, de...
the themes it addresses, besides being a love story, about...
Estem destinats a estar junts, saps?
We are meant to be together, you know?
Mm-hm.
Mm-hm.
A banda d'això, tracta temes que, per l'època, trobo que no era gaire habitual que es tractessin.
Besides that, it addresses topics that, for the time, I find were not very commonly discussed.
Ja. De la manera que ho tracta, a més a més.
Yes. The way he/she handles it, moreover.
Clar, hi ha un tema que sí que és un tema molt recurrent, no?, al Japó, però hi ha un altre que no.
Of course, there is one topic that is indeed a very recurring theme, right? In Japan, but there is another one that is not.
Igual si l'haguéssim llegit a l'època que va sortir, jo potser no m'hauria agradat tant perquè no m'hauria sentit molt identificada.
Even if I had read it at the time it was released, I might not have liked it as much because I wouldn't have felt very identified.
No sé com explicar-ho.
I don't know how to explain it.
Ja.
Yes.
Si, per exemple, a mi...
Yes, for example, to me...
Hi ha coses que són molt d'adults, potser, potser.
There are things that are very adult, perhaps, perhaps.
Sí. Hi ha coses que són una miqueta rellòs, hòstia, amb 15-16 anys t'està passant això.
Yes. There are things that are a bit rough, damn, at 15-16 years old this is happening to you.
No sé jo.
I don't know.
Ja.
Yes.
Llavors, sí que jo la recomanaria ara, si ets un adult ja, doncs, tens recorregut, perquè la pots llegir amb una perspectiva diferent,
So, yes, I would recommend it now, if you are already an adult, because you can read it with a different perspective.
però potser a gent més jove, jo li recomano a tothom, però...
but perhaps to younger people, I recommend it to everyone, but...
Però que es viu de manera diferent.
But it is lived in a different way.
Exacte. O sigui, si estàs passant per un moment així una miqueta xunguelo, doncs potser...
Exactly. So, if you're going through a bit of a rough patch, then maybe...
Potser no és la millor.
Perhaps it is not the best.
És una miqueta rellò, ja som-hi, punt, punt, no?
It's a little bit clock, let's go, point, point, right?
Bueno, jo no diria tant, jo no diria tant, però sí que és veritat que...
Well, I wouldn't say that much, I wouldn't say that much, but it is true that...
És més...
It is more...
Sí que hi ha coses que potser, si has viscut algunes de les coses tu en primera persona, o un amic, o un familiar...
Yes, there are things that maybe, if you have experienced some of those things yourself, or a friend, or a family member...
Clar, o...
Of course, or...
Llavors, depèn de com t'ho prenguis, pot afectar-te, però bueno, tampoc, no diria que és una cosa que et deprimeixi.
So, it depends on how you take it, it can affect you, but well, I wouldn’t say it's something that depresses you.
Bueno, és que jo crec que ho podem, jo crec que sigui spoiler dir que tracta de temes com el suïcidi...
Well, I think we can, I think it's a spoiler to say that it deals with topics like suicide...
Sí, ara ho parlarem.
Yes, we will talk about it now.
Abusos sexuals, i coses així.
Sexual abuse, and things like that.
Sí, sí.
Yes, yes.
Doncs això, que ja sabeu que sí que és una història d'institut romàntica molt bonica, però hi ha aquests temes delicats pel mig, i si sou persones aprensives...
Well, that's it, you know it's a very beautiful romantic high school story, but there are these delicate topics in between, and if you are sensitive people...
o que preferiu ara mateix no llegir res relacionat amb temes així, doncs no la llegiu, espereu-vos més endavant.
Or you would prefer not to read anything related to such topics right now, so don't read it, wait a little longer.
Bé, en tot cas, la manera de conèixer la Kira i el rei és precisament a través de l'art.
Well, in any case, the way to get to know Kira and the king is precisely through art.
A la primera pàgina del manga se'ns mostra un quadre pintat per la Kira, un rei mig nu, ens evoca tota mena de sensacions,
On the first page of the manga, we see a painting by Kira, a half-naked king, which evokes all kinds of sensations.
que a mesura que llegim més capítols prendran un significat més concret.
that as we read more chapters they will take on a more concrete meaning.
La història, pròpiament, però, comença així.
The story, properly speaking, begins like this.
Comença amb la coincidència en una mena de parc de la Kira i el rei. Aquesta és la primera trobada, podríem dir.
It starts with the coincidence in a sort of park between Kira and the king. This is the first meeting, we could say.
Ell busca un centre de salut, li pregunta les direccions, i ella, timida, li lliura un paper amb les indicacions per arribar-hi.
He is looking for a health center, asks her for directions, and she, shy, hands him a piece of paper with the instructions to get there.
Al darrere del paper hi ha el dibuix que la Kira estava pintant, i aquest dibuix li capta l'atenció del rei.
Behind the paper is the drawing that Kira was painting, and this drawing catches the king's attention.
És una mena de referència al quadre del Bes o del Pató, una pintura austríaca que ha datat al principi del segle XX.
It is a kind of reference to the painting of the Kiss or the Pató, an Austrian painting dated to the early 20th century.
Està buscant i sembla que sí que s'hi assemble bastant.
He is looking and it seems that it does resemble quite a bit.
Al centre de salut, uns amics amb els que es troba el rei parlen d'ell com una persona que li diverteix posar la seva vida en risc.
At the health center, some friends with whom the king meets talk about him as a person who enjoys putting his life at risk.
I només té 16 anys? Què l'haurà fet ser així?
And he is only 16 years old? What could have made him like this?
Doncs, amigues i amics, us esperen 8 volums de tot un rerefons que anireu descobrint sobre aquest passat del rei i de per què els protagonistes són d'aquesta manera.
Well, friends, you can expect 8 volumes of a whole background that you will discover about this past of the king and why the protagonists are like this.
Al primer capítol encara veiem com els dos protagonistes acaben assaient junts.
In the first chapter, we still see how the two protagonists end up rehearsing together.
El primer capítol encara veiem com els dos protagonistes acaben assaient junts.
In the first chapter, we still see how the two protagonists end up rehearsing together.
la resta de la classe és nula
the rest of the class is null
passa que un dia, quan era
It happens that one day, when it was
a l'aula de Belles Arts, la Kira
in the Fine Arts classroom, Kira
pateix un intent d'agressió sexual per part
suffers an attempt of sexual assault by
del seu professor. El destí vol que
from his teacher. Destiny wants that
en aquell instant el rei entri
At that moment, the king enters.
per la porta i en veure que està
through the door and seeing that it is
succeint, amenaça el professor perquè
succeeds, threatens the teacher because
se'n vagi. En tot això, el rei veu
he leaves. In all this, the king sees
que la Kira estava dibuixant una estàtua
that Kira was drawing a statue
del déu de la guerra
of the god of war
Mar, assumint la responsabilitat de ser
Sea, assuming the responsibility of being
una de les pàgines més icòniques de l'obra
one of the most iconic pages of the work
el rei agafa i li fa un petó a l'estàtua
the king takes it and kisses the statue
més tard el rei, que valora
later the king, who values
el talent artístic de la Kira, li retorna
Kira's artistic talent returns to her.
el dibuix que li va donar per accident
the drawing he accidentally gave her
uns dies abans i la Kira ho refusa
a few days earlier and Kira refuses it
i ell a canvi promet que la protegirà
and he promises in return that he will protect her.
i que estarà a la seva disposició
and will be at your disposal
pel que necessiti. Així, sense
for what I need. Thus, without
cap vergonya, la Kira li demana que
no shame, Kira asks him to
deixi que el pinti fent de model
let him paint me posing as a model
no cal dir que a partir de llavors començarà
It goes without saying that from then on it will start.
una relació cada vegada més íntima
an increasingly intimate relationship
entre tots dos. Això és tot el que
between both of them. That's all that
podem explicar, crec, sense fer espòilers
we can explain, I think, without giving spoilers
sí que és veritat que després es veuen
it is true that afterwards they see each other
escenes de bullying cap a la Kira
scenes of bullying towards Kira
el conflicte entre el rei
the conflict between the king
i el professor, però vaja, és important
And the professor, well, it's important.
diria que no m'he deixat res
I would say that I haven't left anything behind.
no sé què en penses. No, és important
I don't know what you think about it. No, it's important.
està molt ben resumit al principi, de fet
it's very well summarized at the beginning, in fact
l'escena aquesta d'ell fent-li un petó a l'estàtua
the scene of him kissing the statue
em vas dir que era una cosa molt icònica de la sèrie
You told me it was a very iconic thing from the series.
sí, sí, sí
yes, yes, yes
de fet fa poc es va fer viral també
In fact, it recently went viral as well.
aquesta imatge
this image
o sigui, no acabes de veure
that is, you still don't see
el significat que té darrere
the meaning that lies behind
simplement és com si se'ns estigués
it's just as if we were being
presentant el personatge, dient que
introducing the character, saying that
ell és com el
he is like him
com el déu de la guerra, no?
like the god of war, right?
jo ho vaig interpretar així, com, vale, este será un liante
I interpreted it like this, like, okay, this will be a mess.
increíble, o sigui, les que farà
Incredible, I mean, the ones she will make.
i enganxa bastant al principi per això
and it sticks quite a lot at the beginning because of that
perquè dius, bueno, a veure què
because you say, well, let's see what
com és, no?
how is it, right?
que ha explicat així és com molt xorra
what he explained is very silly like this
és com molt, ai, doncs justament
it's like a lot, oh, well just exactly
han coincidit i l'he demanat
they have met and I have asked him/her
la direcció de no sé què, l'he notat el dibuix
the direction of I don’t know what, I’ve noticed the drawing
darrere i casualment
behind and casually
entre ells, però bueno, és que aquestes ordres
among them, but well, it's just that these orders
són així, o sigui, és el que enganxa
they are like this, that is to say, it's what hooks you
sí, o sigui, el destí
yes, or rather, fate
està clar que forma part, diguéssim
it's clear that it belongs, let's say
l'ADN de l'equip d'obres
the DNA of the works team
i que a més tinguin personalitats
and that they also have personalities
tan diferents que són completament
so different that they are completely
oposants, però
opponents, but
d'una forma inexplicable
in an inexplicable way
s'atreuen al destí de fet que
they are attributed to destiny fact that
per algun motiu estiguin obsessionats
for some reason they are obsessed
l'un amb l'altre
each other
però de totes maneres jo sí que voldria dir sobre
but anyway, I would like to say about
l'estil narratiu, que és que
the narrative style, which is that
m'ha semblat molt àgil, o sigui
I found it very agile, that is to say.
si agafem una obra shoujo
if we take a shoujo work
o més igual de qualsevol demografia
or more equal of any demographic
dels anys 90, a mi m'encanten
I love the 90s.
aquestes obres, però sí que és veritat que
these works, but it is true that
1. hi ha moltíssim text
There is a lot of text.
molt més text que el que tenen les vangues actuals
much more text than what the current banks have
i a més a més hi ha un estil
and furthermore there is a style
molt de vinyeta, vinyeta, vinyeta
a lot of comic strip, comic strip, comic strip
saps? vull dir, no hi ha com un trencament
You know? I mean, there's no such thing as a break.
de com l'estètica
of how aesthetics
de... estic generalitzant
I am generalizing.
evidentment, sempre hi ha obres que ho trenquen, no?
obviously, there are always works that break it, right?
però vull dir que en la mateixa pàgina
but I want to say that on the same page
hi hagi com una vinyeta diagonal
there should be a diagonal vignette
o que et doni la sensació de moviment
or that gives you the feeling of movement
també, no? per exemple el tema
also, right? for example, the topic
de les curses de motos
of motorcycle races
a mi em feia molta mandra aquesta part
I found this part very tedious.
sí, feia mandra, però alhora deies
yes, it was a drag, but at the same time you said
és que està molt ben dibuixat
it's very well drawn
sí, sí, o sigui
yes, yes, that is to say
o sigui, per començar a banda
that is to say, to start aside
té una sensació de dinamisme, de velocitat
it has a feeling of dynamism, of speed
saps? vull dir
Do you know? I mean.
que l'art per si sol
that art by itself
t'estava explicant coses i que no necessitava
I was explaining things to you that you didn't need.
fotre-te un totxo de 10 notes, per exemple
to give you a score of 10 notes, for example
per explicar-te 30 coses
to explain 30 things to you
això és veritat que hi ha moments
this is true that there are moments
on el dibuix fa molt, transmet moltíssim
where the drawing does a lot, it conveys a lot
d'alguns moments d'angústia
of some moments of anguish
d'algun personatge, que no necessites
of some character that you don't need
que hi hagi text pel mig, ja ho estàs entenent
that there is text in the middle, you are already understanding it
que és el que passa, i això és una cosa que m'ha agradat molt
what is happening, and this is something that I really liked
de com dibuixa
of how to draw
de com està fet el dibuix
how the drawing is made
perquè estèticament m'agrada molt com és
because aesthetically I really like how it is
sí, a mi també
yes, me too
transmet molt
transmits a lot
hem de dir que avui en aquest podcast, com hem dit abans
we have to say that today in this podcast, as we mentioned before
parlarem de temes com ara l'abús infantil
we will talk about topics such as child abuse
del suïcidi, del bullying
of suicide, of bullying
de la representació LGBTI
of LGBTI representation
de comportaments sociòpates
of sociopathic behaviors
d'actituds de dependència emocional
of emotional dependence attitudes
fins i tot d'assassinats
even of murders
però clar, nosaltres no els evitarem tots aquests temes
but of course, we will not avoid all these issues
podríem fer veure que això és un espocón
we could pretend that this is a spook
del rei intentant ser
of the king trying to be
el millor pilot de motos
the best motorcycle rider
i que l'obra va d'això, però no va d'això
And that the work is about this, but it is not about this.
i tampoc va només dels romans
and it is not only about the Romans either.
entre els dos, sinó que va
between the two, but it goes
de moltes altres coses, podríem dir
of many other things, we could say
jo diria fins i tot que això, que el tema aquest
I would even say that this, that this topic
de les motos es tracta una mica més
it's a bit more about motorcycles.
de passar, potser l'element
of passing, perhaps the element
central, o un dels elements centrals
central, or one of the central elements
és aquest sentiment de nostàlgia
it is this feeling of nostalgia
o de buscar el propi camí
or to find one's own way
després que la vida els hagi
after life has them
maltractat moltíssim aquests dos personatges
very badly mistreated these two characters
de manera injusta, perquè
unjustly, because
al final no deixen de ser dos nens
in the end they are just two children
16 anys al principi de l'obra, o sigui
16 years at the beginning of the play, that is
és injust que hagin viscut algunes de les coses
It is unfair that they have lived through some of the things.
que es parlen, o que les estiguin
that they speak, or that they are being spoken.
visquent en aquell moment, i de sobte
living at that moment, and suddenly
llegint, sembla que el que ens volia
reading, it seems that what he wanted for us
explicar és que tant de bo
to explain is that I wish it were true
totes aquestes coses dolentes no haguessin passat
all these bad things wouldn't have happened
però alhora també, gràcies a que han passat
but at the same time, thanks to what has happened
aquestes coses dolentes, al final s'han conegut
these bad things have eventually been revealed
els dos protagonistes
the two protagonists
llavors no saps ben bé
then you don't really know
bueno, no sé què dir-te, si és conseqüència de les coses
Well, I don't know what to tell you, if it's a consequence of things.
dolentes que els hi passen
bad things that happen to them
per què ha de ser el rei
why must it be the king
vull dir, hi ha un altre noi que també
I mean, there is another us that also
sí
yes
aquí entrarem una mica en espòilers
here we will enter a bit into spoilers
però és com, per què ha de ser el rei
but it's like, why does it have to be the king
perquè a més, ella des del primer
because besides, she since the first
tomo ja t'estan dient com que
I already tell you as they are saying.
ella sempre ha tingut com una fixació cap a ell
She has always had a fixation on him.
però mai s'ha sentit com amb
but it has never felt like with
prou valentia com per parlar-li
enough courage to speak to him/her
o això recordo jo
or that's what I remember
sí, però també diu que no li agraden
yes, but he/she also says that he/she doesn't like them
els nois que no tenen cap mena de profunditat
the boys who have no depth whatsoever
ah sí, és veritat, al principi
ah yes, it’s true, at the beginning
diu com que no li agrada
he says he doesn't like it
però en realitat no, sí que li agrada
but actually no, yes he/she does like it
al principi es pensa que és un
At first, it is thought that it is a
noi com tota la resta
boy like the rest
li agrada sortir, li agrada
he likes to go out, he likes it
fer maldats, diguéssim, i ja està, simplement això
to do naughty things, let's say, and that's it, just that
i a mesura que es van coneixent
and as they get to know each other
sí que és veritat que diu, jo pensava que tu eres
yes, it is true that he says, I thought you were
d'una manera, i gràcies a saber
in one way, and thanks to knowing
tot el teu passat i tota la teva
all your past and all your
situació personal, he vist que eres d'una altra manera
personal situation, I have seen that you are different
però això que dius
but what you say
sí, però abans ja d'això de saber tot el
Yes, but before that knowing everything...
passat del rei, ella ja està com molt
past the king, she is already like very
pillada d'ell, sense cap mena de motiu
caught by him, without any reason at all
diu, vull estar sempre amb tu
he says, I want to be always with you
però si pràcticament no el coneixes
but if you hardly know him
sí, sí
yes, yes
i ell sí que puc entendre més
and he can understand more
que les conseqüències del seu passat el portin
that the consequences of his past lead him
cap a ella, per diferents coses
towards her, for different reasons
per diferents coses que ara no diré
for different reasons that I won't mention now
però d'ella cap a ell sí que em costa més
but from her to him is what I find harder
entendre per la situació d'ella
understand her situation
i sobretot que ella no
and above all that she does not
o sigui, li fan molt de fàstic
In other words, they disgust him/her a lot.
tots els homes en general
all men in general
en canvi amb ell, potser a la part
on the other hand with him, perhaps in the part
d'espoilers, profunditzem més
of spoilers, let's go deeper
jo crec que és això, l'obra
I believe that is it, the work.
està centrada en el destí
is focused on the destination
les coses passen per algun motiu
Things happen for a reason.
estàvem destinats a estar junts, en fi
we were meant to be together, after all
també volia dir que
I also wanted to say that
el rei utilitza les motos
the king uses motorcycles
com a tub d'escapament de la seva vida
like an exhaust pipe of his life
i els seus traumes, podríem dir
and their traumas, we could say
que després els parlarem d'aquí
that we will talk to them about it later
quins són aquests motos que han fet
What are these bikes that they have made?
aquests traumes, però hi ha un moment
these traumas, but there is a moment
en què això ho perd, això no consideraria
in what this loses it, I would not consider this
que és un espòiler, només dir que
what is a spoiler, just to say that
hi ha moltes vegades que sembla
there are many times that it seems
com si hagi de ser un esdeveniment
as if it has to be an event
canònic a la vida de tots els adolescents
canonical to the life of all adolescents
en què tenen una afició
what hobby do they have
i aquesta afició, com que estan
and this hobby, as they are
creixent i estan fent-se adults
growing and becoming adults
i han d'assumir certes responsabilitats
and they must assume certain responsibilities
doncs a les han de deixar aquestes aficions
so they must be allowed these interests
o aquest somni
or this dream
que necessites canviar
what you need to change
no sé si tu en això
I don't know if you in this.
en veure el rei una mica
seeing the king a little
haver de renunciar
to have to give up
momentàniament a aquest somni de les motos
momentarily to this motorcycle dream
t'hi vas sentir una mica reflectida, potser
did you feel a bit reflected in it, perhaps
és que jo crec que aquesta obra té com molts moments
I think that this work has many moments.
en què tothom ens hi podem sentir
in which we can all feel represented
reflectits, encara que no ens agranyin
reflected, even if we don't like them
les motos, en aquest cas
the motorcycles, in this case
però sí que ens pot recordar com en alguna situació personal
but it can remind us of some personal situation
de dir...
to say...
Sí, a veure, jo trobo que fa una mica referència
Yes, let's see, I find that it refers a little bit.
a aquest tipus de professions que quan ets més jove
to this type of professions that when you are younger
penses, m'agradaria dedicar-me
you think, I would like to dedicate myself
a ser músic
to be a musician
Vull ser futbolista, no?
I want to be a footballer, right?
Clar, tot el teu entorn et diu, però això és molt difícil
Of course, your whole environment tells you, but this is very difficult.
no aniràs a cap lloc
you will not go anywhere
i acabes
and you finish
havent d'abandonar una miqueta aquest somni
having to abandon this dream a little bit
per dedicar-te a algú
to dedicate yourself to someone
que és més fàcil que tinguis sortida
that it is easier for you to have an exit
i que et puguis dedicar
and that you can dedicate yourself
o sigui, que puguis guanyar la vida
that you can make a living
fa referència a això, perquè és veritat que sí que
it refers to this, because it is true that yes
molta gent de jove, a menys que tu tinguis molt clar
a lot of young people, unless you have it very clear
vull ser abogat, vull ser metge
I want to be a lawyer, I want to be a doctor.
la gent que tira cap a
the people who lean towards
rames més artístiques
more artistic branches
doncs sí que ho tenen més complicat
well, yes they have it more complicated
per això
for this reason
Sí, per exemple, ara que diem branques artístiques
Yes, for example, now that we say artistic branches.
en el cas de la Kira
in the case of Kira
vols dedicar a pintar
do you want to dedicate yourself to painting
i diu, no, no, jo vull ajudar la meva mare
And she says, no, no, I want to help my mother.
i tal
and so on
Clar, no podria anar a la Universitat de Belles Arts
Of course, I couldn't go to the University of Fine Arts.
perquè
because
econòmicament a casa
economically at home
i el rei igual
and the king as well
vull dir, ser pilot professional de motos
I mean, to be a professional motorcycle racer.
Sí, sí, és un futur incert
Yes, yes, it is an uncertain future.
et pots jugar la vida, etc
you can play your life, etc
és una professió complicada
it is a complicated profession
també tinc la sensació que són nois
I also have the feeling that they are boys.
de 16 anys
16 years old
i que sembla que estiguin creixent molt ràpid
And it seems that they are growing very fast.
o sigui, que estan assumint com moltes responsabilitats
In other words, they are taking on a lot of responsibilities.
en parlarem
we will talk about it
però van tenint convivències
but they are having cohabitations
en aquest temps en què dura l'obra
during this time that the work lasts
que els nens veien créixer
that the children saw grow
com a adolescents
as teenagers
que sembla que al final siguin gairebé adults
that it seems that in the end they are almost adults
que tinguin ja 30 anys
that they are already 30 years old
en acabar l'obra
upon finishing the work
i no tenen 30 anys
and they are not 30 years old
però sí que creixen molt ràpid
but they do grow very fast
Sí, jo també ho penso
Yes, I think so too.
de cop hi ha com un salt allà molt bèstia
suddenly there's like a big leap there
que dius
What are you saying?
però si sou tres joves
but if you are three young people
però clar, és que és això
but of course, it is just this
per les circumstàncies de les dues
for the circumstances of both
la seva vida familiar
his/her family life
té una justificació
has a justification
de per què està passant allò
of why that is happening
però no és allò normal
but that is not normal
vull dir, clar
I mean, of course.
això també és un altre tema
this is also another topic
si vols llegir l'obra
if you want to read the work
esperant que reflexi la realitat
hoping that it reflects reality
doncs no la llegeixes així
Well, don’t read it like that.
perquè no t'agradarà
because you won't like it
perquè diràs
because you will say
això no passa a la realitat
this doesn't happen in reality
i és una obra que no té anime
And it is a work that has no soul.
com hem dit abans
as we said before
també dedica per les sensacions
also dedicated for the sensations
que em donava el rei
that the king gave me
no podia parar de sentir la veu en castellà
I couldn't stop hearing the voice in Spanish.
del lliu de Marmelade Boy
from the book of Marmelade Boy
da igual lo mucho que te quiera
it doesn't matter how much I love you
o lo mucho que nos queramos
or how much we love each other
lo nuestro no puede ser
What we have cannot be.
y a lo que nos queda
and to what remains for us
es una cosa que no se puede leer
It is something that cannot be read.
y que no se puede ver
and that cannot be seen
o que no se puede ver
or what cannot be seen
y que no se puede ver
and that cannot be seen
Debemos separarnos, porque tú y yo somos hermanos.
We must part, because you and I are brothers.
Però sí que Marx compta amb un parell d'adaptacions de live-action
But Marx does have a couple of live-action adaptations.
i en aquestes dues dècades el manga ha venut més de 5 milions de còpies
In these two decades, manga has sold over 5 million copies.
i s'ha pogut llegir en diferents llengües, com l'italià, com l'anglès, el francès,
and it has been able to be read in different languages, such as Italian, English, French,
entre d'altres. No està disponible en català, però sí en castellà,
among others. It is not available in Catalan, but it is in Spanish.
que és la versió que hem pogut llegir nosaltres.
that is the version we have been able to read.
Què t'ha semblat a tu aquesta edició?
What did you think of this edition?
Abans de començar amb l'apartat d'espoilers i que potser la gent ja pugui marxar
Before starting with the spoiler section and that perhaps people can leave.
si és que vol llegir l'obra, després de tot el que hem comentat,
if you want to read the work, after all we have discussed,
què t'ha semblat aquesta edició?
What did you think of this edition?
Volums dobles, com dic, originalment eren 15 volums,
Double volumes, as I said, originally were 15 volumes.
més un volum extra que era Marx Gaiden, mida A5 i això, eh?
plus an extra volume that was Marx Gaiden, size A5 and that, eh?
Una edició grandeta, podríem dir.
A rather large edition, we could say.
A veure si l'edició està bé.
Let's see if the editing is good.
Sí que estèticament no és la gran cosa, per com és així de gran,
Aesthetically, it is not much to look at, considering how big it is.
però, bueno, trobo que de tamany està bé.
but, well, I think the size is fine.
Penso que si hagués sigut més gran ja s'hauria fet una miqueta massa pesat
I think that if it had been longer, it would have become a bit too tedious.
cada volum per llegir-lo. Jo penso que està perfecte.
each volume to read it. I think it’s perfect.
Bueno, van agafar l'edició japonesa i la van traslladar aquí
Well, they took the Japanese edition and moved it here.
amb un volum una mica més gran del que és l'edició japonesa,
with a volume slightly larger than that of the Japanese edition,
si no, tinc mal entès. I ja està.
If not, I have misunderstood. And that's it.
I tampoc té més. És una obra que no s'havia dictat mai aquí,
I don't have more either. It's a work that had never been dictated here.
per tant, la primera vegada que la tenim és
therefore, the first time we have it is
en aquest format, que jo també penso que potser frena els adolescents,
in this format, which I also think might hold back teenagers,
perquè al final t'has de gastar 18 euros per cada volum,
because in the end you have to spend 18 euros for each volume,
i potser als adolescents els hi frena, això, no?
And maybe this holds back adolescents, doesn’t it?
Però també és veritat que la majoria de la gent que la comprem
But it is also true that most of the people who buy it
és gent que tenim ja més de 20 llargs,
they are people who have been around for more than 20 years.
per no dir 30, per no dir algun més.
not to say 30, not to say some more.
Però bé, ara, a partir d'aquí sí que començarem a parlar d'espoilers,
But well, now, from here on we will start talking about spoilers,
d'acord? Si algú vol deixar-vos taca fins aquí,
Okay? If someone wants to leave you a stain up to here,
nosaltres crec que hem parlat a grans trets de què és el que us podreu trobar,
I believe we have broadly discussed what you can expect to find.
però també us agradaria comentar una mica què ens ha semblat,
but you would also like to comment a bit on what we thought,
com ha anat evolucionant l'obra a mesura que l'hem anat llegint.
How the work has evolved as we have been reading it.
Un dels primers treballs que volia comentar és el tema del suïcidi, no?
One of the first topics I wanted to discuss is the issue of suicide, right?
No és habitual que en un manga es parli tan obertament d'aquest tema,
It is not common for a manga to openly discuss this topic.
potser se'n parla precisament per donar esperances als lectors, no?
Perhaps it's talked about precisely to give hope to readers, isn't it?
Com fan moltes obres, dient que no val la pena matar-se
As they do many works, saying that it is not worth the effort to kill yourself.
quan les coses no van com vols, però se'n parla.
when things don't go as you want, but they are discussed.
Per mi és una manera totalment oposada, per exemple,
For me, it is a completely opposite way, for example,
a una sèrie que va ser molt criticada, que no és un manga,
to a series that was highly criticized, which is not a manga,
que és 13 Rises Why, de Netflix,
What is 13 Rises Why, from Netflix?
aquella sèrie que reseguia les 13 raons
that series that followed the 13 reasons
per les quals un adolescent havia decidit treure's la vida.
for which a teenager had decided to take their life.
No sé si te'n recordes, d'aquesta sèrie.
I don't know if you remember this series.
Sí, sí, la recorde.
Yes, yes, I remember her.
Va ser bastant comentada, diferents temporades,
It was quite commented on, different seasons,
ho van allargar tant com van voler.
They dragged it out as long as they wanted.
Bueno, és que per mi només valia la pena la primera temporada.
Well, for me, only the first season was worth it.
Sí, tot i que és això, en acabar de veure-la
Yes, although it is this, after finishing watching it.
tenies la sensació que romantitzava una mica el suïcidi, no?
You had the feeling that I was romanticizing suicide a bit, didn't you?
Vull dir que et tenies la sensació que et donava idees
I mean that you had the feeling that it gave you ideas.
per, si volies matar-te, doncs fer-ho de manera atractiva, no?
But if you wanted to kill yourself, then do it in an attractive way, right?
Que poguessis deixar una empremta després de matar-te, tu.
That you could leave a mark after killing yourself, you.
Volia parlar d'això del suïcidi perquè el rei té un germà,
I wanted to talk about this issue of suicide because the king has a brother,
que és el Sei, un germà bessó,
what is Sei, a twin brother,
que uns anys enrere va decidir llançar-se des del terrat a l'institut
that a few years ago decided to jump off the roof at the school
No sé com vas viure la història del Sei,
I don't know how you experienced the story of Sei,
se'ns va explicant en trossets, no?
It is being explained to us in bits, isn't it?
Sí que és veritat, que se'ns explica sencera,
Yes, it is true that we are told the whole story.
podríem dir, cap al final, no?
we could say, towards the end, right?
Sabem totes les coses més cap al final,
We know all things better towards the end,
però sí que se'ns va explicant mica en mica
but we are being explained little by little
que era un noi, que era l'oposat també del Sei,
that he was a boy, who was also the opposite of Sei,
era una mica més tranquil·let, calmat...
it was a little calmer, relaxed...
Que li agradava dibuixar...
That he liked to draw...
Li agradava dibuixar...
He liked to draw...
Casualment igual que la nòvia del rei, la Kira...
Coincidentally just like the king's girlfriend, Kira...
A veure...
Let's see...
Jo la primera vegada que es parla sobre el tema de que es va suïcidar,
The first time I heard about the topic of him committing suicide,
perquè al principi t'ho diuen així com molt de passada,
because at first they tell you this somewhat casually,
però és un tema que el rei no vol parlar.
but it is a topic that the king does not want to talk about.
El rei pot haver sigut el responsable, no?
The king could have been responsible, right?
O bé, ell mateix diu si vaig ser jo el que el va llançar,
Or else, he himself says if it was me who threw him.
com si no hagués sigut un suïcidi, com si hagués sigut un homicidi.
as if it had not been a suicide, as if it had been a homicide.
Després surten altres personatges que també s'involucren,
Then other characters come out who also get involved,
una noia que estava per allà amb ells a l'institut,
a girl who was there with them at the institute,
que no recordo el nom, no?
I don't remember the name, do I?
Però que també se fa ella com responsable de que se suïcidés,
But she also takes responsibility for his suicide,
que era la nòvia del Sei.
who was Sei's girlfriend.
Però que el deixa per anar-se'n amb el rei,
But he leaves it to go with the king,
i doncs és com es va suïcidar per això, perquè el va abandonar.
And so he committed suicide because of this, because she abandoned him.
I bueno, doncs és això, és que no saps...
And well, that's it, you just don't know...
Fins al final no saps realment els motius del perquè se suïcida.
Until the end, you don't really know the reasons why he/she commits suicide.
I a més és que t'entres dels motius del perquè se suïcida
And also, do you understand the reasons why people commit suicide?
com d'una forma així també molt de rebote.
As in such a way, also very indirectly.
Molt de passada.
Very briefly.
Sí, perquè la Kira...
Yes, because Kira...
Que això és el final, bàsicament.
This is basically the end.
La Kira descobreix la carta aquella amagada dins d'un quadre,
Kira discovers the letter hidden inside a painting.
que dius, si no l'arriba a descobrir la Kira...
what do you say, if Kira hadn't discovered it...
Ni cosa.
No thing.
Clar, o sigui, si la intenció...
Sure, I mean, if the intention...
Perquè al final el propòsit del suïcidi és com afectar el rei, no?
Because in the end the purpose of suicide is to affect the king, right?
Sí.
Yes.
Que li provoqui, doncs això, una cicatriu de per vida.
May it cause him, then, a scar for life.
I que al final el rei també l'acabi acompanyant, diguéssim.
And that in the end the king also ends up accompanying him, let's say.
Clar.
Of course.
O sigui, la carta diríem que és pel rei.
So, we would say that the letter is for the king.
Sí, sí.
Yes, yes.
Però si tu l'amagues...
But if you hide it...
Clar, és d'aquestes coses que jo entenc que per trama ho han de fer així, no?
Of course, it's one of those things that I understand they have to do this way for the plot, right?
Perquè si no, no tindria gràcia.
Because otherwise, it wouldn't be fun.
És per donar-li més...
It's to give it more...
Bueno, i perquè el rei ha perdonat-se i al final és molt intens.
Well, and because the king has forgiven himself and in the end, it is very intense.
Molt de donar-hi voltes a tot.
A lot of going around in circles about everything.
Com tracten el tema del Sei, sí que tinc la sensació que, tot i que ens expliquen tot en principi,
Regarding how they handle the Sei issue, I do have the feeling that, although they explain everything to us at first,
tot el que es pot saber, és que és veritat que és difícil arribar a entendre per què se suïcida.
All that can be known is that it is true that it is difficult to understand why someone commits suicide.
O sigui, simplement ell diu que ell pateix molt i que, bueno, al final necessita matar-se.
So, he simply says that he suffers a lot and that, well, in the end he needs to kill himself.
És que jo crec que al final és més, no tant els motius de per què se suïcida, sinó les conseqüències en el rei.
I believe that in the end it's more about the consequences for the king than the reasons why he commits suicide.
O sigui, com afecta...
So, how does it affect...
Exacte.
Exactly.
Aquell punt a la resta de la seva vida.
That point in the rest of his life.
Exacte.
Exact.
Sí.
Yes.
Sí que el rei al principi es pensa que és perquè li va dir que...
Yes, the king at first thinks it's because he told him that...
Sí.
Yes.
...el seu pare no era el seu pare de veritat.
...his father was not his real father.
Sí.
Yes.
Però no és tant això, perquè ell ja ho sabia.
But it's not so much that, because he already knew it.
Clar.
Of course.
El Sei ja sabia que el seu pare no era el pare de veritat.
The Sixth already knew that his father was not his real father.
Però això el rei no ho sap.
But the king does not know this.
És que també és important que la mare del rei, el Sei, es suïcida, també.
It is also important that the king's mother, the Sei, commits suicide, too.
Sí.
Yes.
Llavors, clar, això no es veu, que jo recordi, no es veu, però probablement va tenir algun impacte en el Sei que la mare se suïcidés.
Well, of course, this is not seen, as far as I remember, it is not seen, but it probably had some impact on the fact that my mother committed suicide.
Sí.
Yes.
Perquè no troben...
Because they don't find...
Sí que es veu, sí.
Yes, it can be seen, yes.
Hi ha un moment en què els dos germans veuen la mare penjant-se.
There is a moment when the two brothers see their mother hanging herself.
Sí.
Yes.
Amb la corda.
With the rope.
I pel trauma infantil, diguéssim, no?, en el moment en què ells potser fins i tot no entenen per què està penjant.
And for the childhood trauma, let's say, right?, at the moment when they may not even understand why it is hanging.
Clar.
Sure.
Ells obliden totalment aquesta situació i el rei hi ha un moment en què ho recorda tot quan entra a la habitació de la mare.
They totally forget this situation, and the king remembers everything for a moment when he enters the mother's room.
Sí, jo ho recordo, però el Sei...
Yes, I remember it, but the Sei...
Els dos estan allà.
Both of them are there.
Clar, no sabem fins a quin punt el Sei, quan va decidir suïcidar-se, també estava relacionat amb la mort de la seva mare.
Of course, we do not know to what extent Sei, when he decided to commit suicide, was also related to the death of his mother.
Llavors...
Then...
Potser la manera de ser el Sei era més semblant a la mare.
Perhaps Sei's way of being was more similar to that of the mother.
Sí.
Yes.
I la manera de ser el rei era més semblant al pare.
And the way of being the king was more similar to the father.
Perquè el pare, això tampoc ho hem comentat, però el pare conduïa, era pilot, no de motos sinó de cotxes, de curses, i també es va matar.
Because the father, we haven't talked about this either, but the father drove, he was a driver, not of motorcycles but of race cars, and he also died.
Però en tot cas sí que és veritat que tenen una família així molt de... que a tothom li passen coses, no?
But in any case, it is true that they have a family like that, a lot of... that everyone goes through things, right?
Excepte el pare... fals, podríem dir, que sí que té èxit a la seva carrera, no?, i tal, i té una empresa.
Except for the father... false, we could say, who is indeed successful in his career, right?, and so on, and has a company.
Clar, és que és una mica, o sigui, la mare i el pare, que estan junts, no tenen el rei i el Sei, és la mare que es lia amb el germà del pare...
Of course, it's just that it's a bit, I mean, the mother and the father, who are together, don't have the king and the Sei, it's the mother who got involved with the father's brother...
i es queda embarassada.
and she gets pregnant.
Total, que té els fills amb l'altre, amb el germà del seu marit, i els fills són el rei i el Sei.
In total, she has children with the other, with her husband's brother, and the children are the king and the Sei.
Clar, la mare, arrel de que es mori el pare biològic del rei i el Sei, diguéssim que allò l'hi afecta molt, psicològicament.
Of course, the mother, after the biological father of the king passed away and the Sei, let's say that it affects him a lot, psychologically.
Sí.
Yes.
I a partir d'allà, doncs, bueno, acaba tenint comportaments estranys, que no són saludables cap als nens, perquè intenta asfixiar el rei,
And from there, well, he ends up exhibiting strange behaviors that are not healthy for the children because he tries to suffocate the king.
i al final ella s'acaba traient la vida, perquè la internen, la internen, arrel de que intenta asfixiar el rei, la internen en un centre psiquiàtric.
And in the end, she ends up taking her own life because they commit her, they commit her after she tries to suffocate the king; they admit her to a psychiatric facility.
Sí.
Yes.
I, doncs bé, això, quan li donen l'alta, doncs, se treu la vida.
And well, this, when they discharge him, well, he takes his own life.
Jo crec que està tot relacionat, no?, una mica, això que passa amb la mare, potser ja el Sei, arrel d'això, el ser petit, li afecta,
I believe it's all related, isn't it? A little bit, what happens with the mother, perhaps Sei, as a result of this, being small, it affects him.
perquè el rei no té aquests comportaments com aquest monstre a dins, no?, que diu al Sei,
because the king doesn’t have these behaviors like this monster inside, right?, that he says to Sei,
tinc aquest monstre a dins, i necessito com desfer-me d'aquest monstre abans que ell me destrueixi a mi,
I have this monster inside me, and I need to get rid of this monster before it destroys me.
doncs, prefereixo treure'm la vida.
Well, I prefer to take my own life.
Jo crec que és això, que és una persona molt introvertida, que no sap expressar bé el que li està passant,
I think that is it, that he/she is a very introverted person, who does not know how to express well what is happening to him/her.
Però també és molt manipulador, eh?, és que és un personatge que em fa pena perquè jo crec que podria tenir més xitxa, o sigui...
But he is also very manipulative, you know? It's just that he is a character that makes me feel sorry because I think he could have more substance, I mean...
Sí.
Yes.
Estaria bé que sortís més, però que al final gira molt entorn d'ell, perquè al final és rei-Sei tota l'estona.
It would be good if he went out more, but in the end, he revolves a lot around himself, because in the end, he is king—he's like that all the time.
Sí.
Yes.
Que, de fet, ja t'ho vaig comentar jo, que jo tenia la teoria que potser el rei era el Sei, saps?, que...
That, in fact, I already mentioned to you that I had the theory that maybe the king was the Sei, you know?, that...
Sí, que en realitat era el mateix persona.
Yes, it was actually the same person.
Clar, que el rei, o sigui, deia que era el Sei el que s'havia associat, però era ell mateix el Sei, no?,
Of course, the king, I mean, said that it was Sei who had associated, but it was he himself who was Sei, right?
que com que havia volgut convertir-se en el seu germà, perquè li agradava molt la forma del seu germà, doncs, bueno,
since he had wanted to become his brother, because he really liked the way his brother looked, well,
que potser hi havia alguna mena de plot twist així, però al final no és així.
that maybe there was some kind of plot twist like that, but in the end it is not.
Sí.
Yes.
M'hauria agradat, eh?, també que fos algú així, de dir, ostres, que ella descobrís que en realitat, com són germans bessons, ident,
I would have liked it, you know?, for it to be someone like that, to say, wow, that she discovers that in reality, since they are twin siblings, identical.
bueno, ident, que s'assemblen molt, doncs que hi hagués allí un...
Well, ident, they look very similar, so there was a...
Clar, però sí que és veritat que t'ensenyen el triangle morogos amb aquella, la seva amiga, no?,
Sure, but it is true that they show you the morogos triangle with that one, their friend, right?
durant l'institut, i al final, vull dir, per molt que li busquis, li vulguis buscar aquesta sensació de que potser som la mateixa persona
during high school, and in the end, I mean, no matter how much you look for it, you want to look for that feeling that maybe we are the same person
i que és una persona bipolar, no?, al final, doncs, hi ha gent que es converteix.
And that they are a bipolar person, right? In the end, there are people who change.
Clar, no, a veure, era molt difícil que fos... o sigui, que això fos així, com deia jo la meva teoria, però bueno.
Of course, no, let's see, it was very difficult for it to be... I mean, for this to be like this, as I said my theory, but well.
Voldríem aprofitar aquí, ja que parlem d'aquest tema del suïcidi, per referir-nos a la feina que fem tant tu com jo actualment,
We would like to take the opportunity here, since we are discussing the topic of suicide, to refer to the work that both you and I are currently doing,
que és treballar al 112, el telèfon d'emergències.
what it is like to work at 112, the emergency phone.
Al 112 hi truca gent amb tot tipus de demandes, i algunes poden anar també en aquest sentit.
At 112, people call with all sorts of requests, and some may also fall into this category.
Et sembla que en parlem una mica, evidentment, per motius de confidencialitat,
It seems to me that we talk about it a bit, obviously, for reasons of confidentiality,
no ens referirem a localitzacions, ni farem descripcions de les persones, evidentment,
we will not refer to locations, nor will we make descriptions of people, obviously,
però sí que trobo que és una manera bastant interessant per dir, tant amb aquest manga com en general, amb la nostra feina,
but I do find it quite an interesting way to say, both with this manga and in general, with our work,
per dir que el suïcidi és una cosa que és més present del que ens pensem en aquesta societat, podríem dir, no?,
To say that suicide is something that is more present than we think in this society, we could say, right?
que hi ha més casos dels que ens pensem, que no en parlem perquè lògicament no volem que la gent tingui ganes de fer-ho, no?
There are more cases than we think, and we don't talk about it because, logically, we don't want people to want to do it, right?
Bueno, jo crec que no en parlem perquè és un tema que és bastant tabú.
Well, I think we don't talk about it because it's a topic that is quite taboo.
Sí, és tabú.
Yes, it is a taboo.
És com que fa cosa parlar de la mort.
It's somewhat uncomfortable to talk about death.
Sí.
Yes.
No passa res per parlar de la mort, vull dir, que tu en algun moment se t'hagi passat pel cap, i si morís què passaria?
It's okay to talk about death, I mean, have you ever thought about what would happen if you died?
No passa res. No estàs boig, no estàs pensant una cosa superincoherent.
It's okay. You're not crazy, you're not thinking something super incoherent.
És normal pensar en la mort, i pensar en el suïcidi en algun moment que tu hagis tingut.
It is normal to think about death and to think about suicide at some point you may have had.
O és una situació molt complicada de la teva vida que potser ho veus ara i dius,
Or it is a very complicated situation in your life that you might see now and say,
doncs això era una tonteria, per què jo tenia aquests pensaments? Bueno, vull dir...
well, that was a silly thing, why did I have those thoughts? Well, I mean...
Aquella sensació de que ningú em trobarà a faltar, o aquella sensació de què passaria si em morís, realment deixaria de patir, no?
That feeling that no one will miss me, or that feeling of what would happen if I died, I would really stop suffering, right?
Aquesta situació que estic vivint ara mateix.
This situation that I am experiencing right now.
Clar, sí. Jo penso que és un tema que s'hauria de normalitzar més, i parlar-ne més, que no passa res,
Of course, yes. I think it's a topic that should be normalized more and talked about more, that there's nothing wrong with it.
que tu en algun moment tinguis algun vaixell i t'hagi passat alguna idea tonta pel cap, que ja saps que no ho faràs.
that at some point you have a ship and some silly idea has crossed your mind, which you already know you won't do.
Tothom, en alguna vegada, doncs, haurà estat...
Everyone, at some point, will have been...
ha estat tenint aquesta idea pel cap, no?, i ho penses, però no de forma seriosa.
You've been having this idea in your head, right?, and you think about it, but not seriously.
Que no ha de ser una vergonya, tampoc, no ens hem de sentir malament per dir,
It shouldn't be an embarrassment either, we shouldn't feel bad for saying,
ostres, tio, en aquest moment estava... m'he sentit tan malament que vaig pensar que em llançaria per la finestra.
Wow, dude, at that moment I was... I felt so bad that I thought I would throw myself out the window.
Òbviament, no ho faràs. Però...
Obviously, you won't do it. But...
Valorant que la vida té un valor, no?, perquè, per exemple, el taonista de Mars, el rei, li dóna poc valor a la vida al principi, no?
Valorant that life has value, right? Because, for example, the wasp player from Mars, the king, gives little value to life at the beginning, doesn't he?
T'hi agraden molt les curses de motos, precisament perquè li és igual si en algun moment es pugui matar,
You really like motorbike races, precisely because it doesn't matter to you if you could die at some point.
és igual què passarà, no passarà res.
It doesn't matter what will happen, nothing will happen.
Simplement et mates i ja està, no?
You just kill yourself and that's it, right?
Al principi pensa això, després ja canvia.
At first, he thinks this, then he changes.
Però sí que donant-li el valor just que té a la vida, no?, sent conscients que aquestes situacions passen.
But yes, by giving life the proper value it has, right?, being aware that these situations happen.
Són veïns nostres, o són gent que coneixem fins i tot, o gent que...
They are our neighbors, or they are people we know even, or people that...
amb les qui hem estudiat a l'universitat o a l'escola o a l'institut, vull dir, són gent real.
with those we studied at university or school or high school, I mean, they are real people.
Jo recordo, per exemple, la primera trucada que vaig rebre d'aquest tipus de suïcidi,
I remember, for example, the first call I received about this type of suicide,
que era un home, no diria en quina localitat, però sí que era un home que em volia retransmetre les seves últimes paraules,
that he was a man, I wouldn't say in which locality, but it was a man who wanted to transmit to me his last words,
abans de morir, no?
before dying, right?
I em va deixar molt xocat perquè jo feia poc que havia entrat a treballar al 112
It left me very shocked because I had only recently started working at 112.
i no havia parlat mai amb ningú que tingués la intenció real de suïcidar-se, no?
I had never spoken to anyone who had the real intention of committing suicide, right?
Altres vegades et poden trucar perquè, mira, és que tinc pensaments i tal, m'agradaria parlar amb alguna persona...
Other times they might call you because, look, I have thoughts and such, I would like to talk to someone...
D'acord, una cosa és tindre pensaments i l'altra és dir, vull parlar amb tu, per exemple,
Okay, one thing is to have thoughts and another is to say, I want to talk to you, for example.
que mira, doncs m'has agafat, que el telèfon que em cau bé ara mateix és el 112,
Well, you got me, because the phone number I like right now is 112.
vull parlar amb algú, la conversa queda gravada i t'ho explico.
I want to talk to someone, the conversation will be recorded and I'll explain it to you.
Sí.
Yes.
Però la decisió ja està presa, no et diré on sóc, no vull parlar amb cap metge, no tal,
But the decision is already made, I won't tell you where I am, I don't want to talk to any doctor, no way.
simplement vull parlar amb tu i dir-te això, no?
I just want to talk to you and tell you this, right?
I et quedes amb una sensació molt estranya de que no pots fer res per aquella persona,
You are left with a very strange feeling that you can't do anything for that person.
no saps quines són les circumstàncies amb les quals ha viscut perquè decideixi treure's la vida
You don't know what the circumstances are that led them to decide to take their own life.
i són trucades complicades, són trucades complicades de gestionar emocionalment per cada persona que està treballant allà.
They are complicated calls, they are complicated calls to manage emotionally for each person working there.
Clar, perquè és un tema que espanta molt i, a veure, és un tema molt important,
Of course, because it’s a topic that frightens a lot and, well, it’s a very important topic,
però el problema, crec jo, és aquest, que com que és un tema que espanta molt
But the problem, I believe, is this: that since it's a topic that scares a lot.
i es tendeix a evitar parlar d'això, no sabem gestionar-ho.
And there is a tendency to avoid talking about it, we do not know how to manage it.
No sabem gestionar-ho.
We don't know how to manage it.
Llavors, clar, nosaltres com a gestors també, o al final t'hi habitues, o...
Then, of course, as managers, you either get used to it, or...
Sí, perquè...
Yes, because...
Doncs t'afecta emocionalment.
Well, it affects you emotionally.
Has parlat amb molta gent, no?, al final.
You've talked to a lot of people, haven't you, in the end?
Clar, per això també vull dir que, quan més es normalitzi, millor, que no es treu la importància, el tema.
Of course, that's why I also want to say that the more normalized it becomes, the better, as it does not diminish the importance of the topic.
Clar, que és un tema molt delicat i no és fàcil parlar-ne, d'això.
Of course, it's a very delicate topic and it's not easy to talk about it.
Però clar, que si a tothom no li fes tanta por parlar d'això, seria com més fàcil comunicar-ho i gestionar-ho.
But of course, if everyone weren't so afraid to talk about it, it would be easier to communicate and manage.
I sí, sí, clar, o sigui, jo també he tingut alguna trucada,
And yes, yes, of course, I mean, I have also had some calls.
clar, al principi t'esveres, sempre, perquè no estàs habituat a que t'entrin trucades així.
Sure, at first you get startled, always, because you're not used to receiving calls like that.
Clar, o sigui, cada trucada relacionada amb això...
Sure, I mean, every call related to this...
És un cop, no?
It's a blow, isn't it?
Sí que et deixa una mica aixafadot després, no?
It does leave you a bit crushed afterwards, doesn't it?
Però tot també depèn de les circumstàncies.
But everything also depends on the circumstances.
Aquí dius tu, és molt diferent que et truqui una persona tranquil·la, que t'està explicant les coses calmada i serena,
Here you say, it's very different for a calm person to call you, who is explaining things to you calmly and serenely.
que, per exemple, a mi, alguna trucada que m'ha pogut entrar d'alguna persona plorant, molt angoixada,
that, for example, to me, some call I might have received from someone crying, very distressed,
perquè estava sola en aquell moment i li feia molta por.
because she was alone at that moment and it scared her a lot.
El que podria fer-se a si mateixa.
What she could do to herself.
Aleshores, clar, tu intentes gestionar-ho també parlant d'una forma molt calmada, molt empàtica,
So, of course, you try to manage it by also speaking in a very calm, very empathetic way.
i ajudar-la el més ràpid possible, no?
And help her as quickly as possible, right?
Jo, quan són trucades així, intento no anar en presa, saps?
I, when there are calls like that, try not to rush, you know?
Preguntar-li les coses calmadament i que senti que l'estem ajudant.
Ask him things calmly and let him feel that we are helping him.
Però sí, sí, o sigui, són trucades complicades i, bueno, ja per no parlar d'algun...
But yes, yes, I mean, they are complicated calls and, well, not to mention some...
d'algun suïcidi consumat.
of some completed suicide.
Exacte, o sigui, hi ha gent que truca perquè vol anunciar que ho vol fer o que...
Exactly, I mean, there are people who call because they want to announce that they want to do it or that...
que té aquesta intenció i pot parlar o no amb un professional sanitari,
who has this intention and may or may not speak with a healthcare professional,
però hi ha gent que ho ha fet, o sigui, que et truca per dir-te que hi ha una persona que s'ha suïcidat.
but there are people who have done it, I mean, they call you to tell you that there is a person who has committed suicide.
Sí, sí, jo d'això en tinc una també, que no entraré molt en detalls,
Yes, yes, I have one of those too, but I won't go into too much detail.
però bàsicament era, doncs, un familiar que s'havia trobat un altre familiar que s'havia penjat.
but basically it was, well, a relative who had found another relative who had hanged themselves.
Clar, doncs, bé, el mateix que deia abans.
Of course, well, just the same as I was saying before.
Jo sé d'altres gestors que han tingut trucades així i són trucades que recordes de per vida, o sigui,
I know of other managers who have had calls like that, and they are calls you remember for a lifetime, so...
allò recordaràs sempre, és una cosa que et marcarà ja perquè és una cosa molt fort.
You will always remember it; it's something that will mark you because it is something very strong.
Molt fort i que no en parles habitualment.
Very strong and that you don't usually talk about.
Esclar, i clar, que t'estiguin dient, m'acabo de trobar aquesta persona,
Of course, and clearly, if they are telling you, I just ran into this person,
i clar, que t'ho poden estar dient també tranquil·lament, eh?,
And of course, they could be telling you that calmly too, right?
o t'ho poden estar dient cridant, plorant, és difícil aguantar que t'estiguin...
or they might be telling you by shouting, crying, it's hard to endure being...
perquè de forma inevitable tu també penses en els teus familiars, les persones que t'estimes,
because inevitably you also think of your relatives, the people you love,
i com que potser dius, ostres, si a mi em passés això, què faria, no?
And since you might say, wow, if this happened to me, what would I do, right?
És que ha de ser tan dur trobar-se un familiar que s'ha tret la vida.
It is so hard to find a relative who has taken their own life.
Llavors, doncs, això, què afecta? Afecta a nivell emocional i, bueno, no és fàcil.
So, then, what does this affect? It affects us at an emotional level and, well, it's not easy.
A raó d'això, diguéssim, fa poc va sortir un titular a la premsa en què es parlava de les baixes,
For this reason, let's say, a headline recently appeared in the press discussing the layoffs,
de les nombroses baixes que hi ha al 112,
of the numerous casualties that there are at 112,
arrel de les dificultats per cobrir algunes places dins de l'empresa, no?
due to the difficulties in filling some positions within the company, right?
I l'empresa, la reacció que va tindre, no?, va ser que ens vigilarem
And the company, the reaction it had, right?, was that we would keep an eye on each other.
si les baixes són reals o no són reals.
whether the declines are real or not real.
Que han contractat una empresa externa que el que fa és assegurar-se
They have hired an external company that ensures.
de si realment tu estàs de baixa per motius... reals.
whether you are really on sick leave for... real reasons.
O tens alguna malaltia o el que sigui.
Either you have some illness or whatever.
O estàs de vacances a la platja prenent-te uns mojitos.
Either you're on vacation at the beach enjoying some mojitos.
Exacte. I ja us podeu imaginar que amb aquesta mena de situacions
Exactly. And you can already imagine that with this kind of situation
que no són d'un dia cada cinquanta, sinó que són diàries...
that are not once every fifty days, but are daily...
De nits la gent sempre està com més alterada.
At night, people are always a bit more agitated.
Més... no, menys col·laborativa.
More... no, less collaborative.
Però són trucades més complicades.
But they are more complicated calls.
És més fàcil que t'entrin trucades d'aquest tipus.
It's easier for you to receive calls of this type.
I això t'afecta anàmicament, això, psicològicament.
And this affects you emotionally, this, psychologically.
Doncs acabes tenint menys ganes d'anar a treballar, no?, lògicament.
So you end up having less desire to go to work, right? Logically.
Clar, i això també és una cosa que li sorprèn molt a la gent
Of course, and this is also something that surprises people a lot.
perquè tu quan entres a treballar no et fan cap mena de formació
because when you start working they don't provide you with any training
a nivell riscos psicològics.
at the level of psychological risks.
De, pot entrar aquest tipus de trucada,
Yes, this type of call can enter.
anem a fer, jo què sé, un roleplay d'aquest tipus de trucada
let's go do, I don't know, a roleplay of this type of call
per veure com t'afecta.
to see how it affects you.
Si notes que estàs així...
If you notice that you are like this...
No, simplement et diuen, bueno, hi ha un psicòleg amb el que pots contactar
No, they just tell you, well, there is a psychologist you can contact.
i ja està. O sigui, no et fan cap mena de prevenció.
And that's it. I mean, they don't provide any kind of prevention.
Clar, tu t'entra en la primera trucada així,
Of course, you get in on the first call like this.
que et pot entrar el primer dia que treballis
that can happen to you on your first day at work
i és que potser t'agafes la baixa aquell mateix dia.
And maybe you will take sick leave that same day.
Perquè dius, jo això no estava preparat mentalment
Why do you say, I was not mentally prepared for this?
per haver d'aguantar una trucada així.
for having to endure a call like that.
No només de suïcidi, sinó que pot ser qualsevol altra cosa, no?
Not only suicide, but it can be anything else, right?
Pot ser una persona que hagi matat una altra persona,
It can be a person who has killed another person,
pot ser que sigui una violació, exacte, una agressió,
it could be a violation, exactly, an aggression,
un apunyalament, exacte.
a stabbing, exactly.
Una col·lisió molt forta en la que hi ha una persona
A very strong collision involving a person.
que s'està desangrant...
that is bleeding out...
Menors, etcètera.
Minors, etcetera.
Clar, a veure, també poden ser coses més...
Sure, let's see, they can also be things more...
Sí, més tranquil·les, també.
Yes, calmer too.
Clar, o sigui, pot ser de tot.
Sure, I mean, it could be anything.
Tinc molt mal de cap, per exemple.
I have a very bad headache, for example.
Hi ha de tot, és molt ampli l'espectre que hi ha de trucades,
There is everything, the spectrum of calls is very broad.
però sí que és veritat que és molt vergonyós
but it is true that it is very shameful
que diguin que necessiten comprovar
let them say what they need to check
que aquestes baixes siguin reals.
that these casualties be real.
Com si que tu estiguis de baixa per ansietat
As if you have been on leave for anxiety.
perquè la feina et provoca molt d'estrès,
because the work causes you a lot of stress,
és una tonterieta.
it's a little nonsense.
Em fa molta gràcia perquè és com, posa't tu a agafar trucades.
It amuses me a lot because it's like, you try answering calls.
A veure com acabes, al cap de...
Let's see how it ends, after...
Al cap d'un temps, clar, lògicament.
After some time, of course, logically.
Anys, també.
Years, too.
Hi ha gent que porta molts anys treballant allà
There are people who have been working there for many years.
i que com més acumules, al final també t'ha afectat més.
And the more you accumulate, in the end, it has affected you more as well.
També recordem que és un servei que no està...
We also remember that it is a service that is not...
O sigui, que els treballadors que treballem allà
So, the workers who work there.
no són treballadors de la Generalitat, sinó que són treballadors...
they are not employees of the Generalitat, but rather they are employees...
Exacte, que no...
Exactly, no...
O sigui, que no es passin impostos.
I mean, don't impose taxes.
Exacte.
Exact.
Que no directament.
Not directly.
Exacte, no som gent que, diguéssim,
Exactly, we are not people who, let's say,
tinguem les mateixes condicions laborals
let's have the same working conditions
que un funcionari qualsevol, no?
that a random official, right?
Sinó que simplement això és un servei externalitzat
But simply this is an outsourced service.
amb un conveni de telemarketing
with a telemarketing agreement
i amb tot el que ho comporta qualsevol persona
and with everything that it entails, any person
que hagi treballat en telemarketing.
that has worked in telemarketing.
Jo mateix havia treballat abans en telemarketing.
I myself had worked in telemarketing before.
Sap perfectament quines són les condicions
He knows perfectly well what the conditions are.
d'aquest tipus de feines
of this type of work
i, per tant, també ha de ser conscient
and, therefore, it must also be aware
que la salut de molta gent
that the health of many people
o les situacions d'emergència que necessita molta gent
or the emergency situations that require a lot of people
estan depenent que una gent que potser no té les millors condicions
they are depending on people who may not have the best conditions
els estigui atenent, no?
is attending to them, right?
Esclar, és que això també és molt important.
Of course, this is also very important.
No és el mateix que jo atengui una trucada
It's not the same for me to answer a call.
després de portar 7 hores de nit
after being up for 7 hours at night
atenent trucades
answering calls
perquè l'agafi i res, m'acabo d'entrar a treballar.
because I just started working.
Exacte.
Exact.
I amb les condicions que hi ha, eh?
And with the conditions that are present, huh?
Diferents, diguéssim, d'altres sectors.
Different, let's say, from other sectors.
Però bé, volíem tornar al manga, evidentment,
But well, we wanted to return to the manga, obviously,
perquè sí que ens feia gràcia
because it did make us laugh
ja que el tema tractava el tema dels suïcidis
since the topic dealt with the issue of suicides
i es donen aquestes situacions de vegades a la feina, no?
And these situations happen sometimes at work, right?
Però sí que creiem que estaria bé
But we do think it would be good.
comentar altres qüestions de l'obra
comment on other aspects of the work
abans de tancar el podcast.
before closing the podcast.
Sí.
Yes.
També hi ha una altra persona que està una mica malament del cap
There is also another person who is a bit mentally unstable.
que és el Masao Kirishima.
What is Masao Kirishima?
Ell és un noi que es presenta com a homosexual
He is a guy who identifies as homosexual.
diu que li agrada el rei, com a mínim
he says he likes the king, at least
que és la persona que li agrada
who is the person he/she likes
però que és un pertorbat
but what is a disturbed person
que l'únic que busca és fer que el rei sigui una mala persona.
that the only thing he seeks is to make the king a bad person.
També hi ha un altre personatge que és estrany
There is also another character who is strange.
durant l'obra té menys importància
during the play it is less important
però sí que és veritat que apareix.
but it is true that it appears.
Però en tot cas aquest manga sembla una bona mostra
But in any case, this manga seems like a good example.
de com es representava la comunitat LGTB als anys 90
how the LGBTQ community was represented in the 90s
en la immensa majoria de pel·lícules o sèries.
in the vast majority of movies or series.
Sempre hi ha excepcions
There are always exceptions.
però sí que és veritat que en aquella època
but it is true that at that time
sí que es representava els gais, les lesbianes, les persones trans
it did represent gays, lesbians, transgender people
com a persones amb mala vida
as people with a hard life
o amb aquest problema psicològic
or with this psychological problem
que no li deixa tindre una vida normal, no?
that doesn't let him have a normal life, right?
Entenem normal com allò que es considerava normal als anys 90, no?
We understand normal as what was considered normal in the 90s, right?
Que és heterosexualitat, casa, fills, gos, etc.
What is heterosexuality, house, children, dog, etc.
Sempre dirà algú amb sida, per exemple
Someone with AIDS will always say, for example.
o amb problemes mentals o afeminat o...
or with mental problems or effeminate or...
No dic que totes aquestes qüestions siguin, no?
I'm not saying that all these issues are, right?
També justificació perquè aquestes persones rebin agressions
Also justification for why these people receive aggressions.
però en tot cas sí que se'ns presentava aquest estereotip.
but in any case, this stereotype did indeed present itself to us.
Fins i tot gent que es prostituïa, no?
Even people who were prostituting themselves, right?
I amb el Masao Kirishima
And with Masao Kirishima.
doncs tenim una persona que és una mica
so we have a person who is a bit
jo podria dir l'antagonista de l'obra al final, no?
I could say the antagonist of the play at the end, right?
No ho sé, què n'opines d'aquest personatge?
I don't know, what do you think of this character?
Et feia ràbia realment?
Did it really make you angry?
És que un antagonista t'ha de fer ràbia al final, no?
It's just that an antagonist should make you angry in the end, right?
Has de pensar, o sigui, quina persona
You have to think, that is, what person.
tant de bo es mori, saps?
I hope he/she dies, you know?
No, perquè al final també és un personatge
No, because in the end he is also a character.
que té els seus traumes
that has its traumas
perquè també ha tingut un passat complicat
because it has also had a complicated past
que dona una mica d'explicació del per què és així.
which gives a little explanation of why it is like this.
Que jo crec que ni ell mateix
That I don't believe he himself does either.
sap per què és així
do you know why it is like this
i per què fa el que fa, no?
And why does he/she do what he/she does, right?
Perquè de fet ja l'escena en què el rei
Because in fact the scene in which the king
com que li diu...
as he tells her...
li fa referència a alguna cosa així com
it refers to something like
ets patètic, no saps ni...
you're pathetic, you don't even know how to...
i l'altre es ve a baix
and the other one comes down
perquè se n'adona que realment sí
because he/she realizes that it really is
no sap ni per què és així
he doesn't even know why it is that way
ni què és el que vol, ni...
neither what he wants, nor...
Se n'oblida de les coses
He forgets about things.
o fa veure que s'oblida de les coses, menteix molt
or pretends to forget things, lies a lot
Això intenta matar l'Akira
This tries to kill Akira.
només pel fet que li està prenent
just for the fact that it is taking from him/her
al rei, no?
to the king, right?
Tu creus que l'intenta matar al 100%?
Do you think he/she is trying to kill him/her 100%?
O només és amenaçar-la?
Or is it just to threaten her?
Jo crec que sí
I think so.
que arriba un moment que diu
that a moment comes when it says
et vull treure del mig, i ja està
I want to get you out of the way, and that's it.
i això farà que el rei
and this will make the king
recuperi aquest monstre interior
recover this inner monster
que fa que en algun moment
that causes that at some point
se li vagi a la pinça i comenci a matar la gent
he goes crazy and starts killing people
o matar o agredir com a mínim
either kill or at least assault
perquè veiem que el rei sí que té precedents
because we see that the king does have precedents
d'agressions contra persones
of assaults against people
ja siguin nens o adults
whether they are children or adults
en determinats moments
at certain moments
Sí que és veritat que aquí també et genera unes expectatives
Yes, it is true that it also generates expectations for you here.
de dir, ostres, què haurà fet aquest personatge
to say, wow, what could this character have done
per ser així ara
to be like this now
però després vas llegint i descobreixes que en realitat
but then you keep reading and discover that in reality
no ha matat mai a ningú
has never killed anyone.
ha estat en merders de baralles i coses així
he has been in messes of fights and things like that
però no ha arribat al punt
but it has not reached the point
mentre que el que hi xima
while what is in it is trembling
Sí que ha matat algú
Yes, he has killed someone.
Clar, tenia un abusador que el maltractava molt fortament
Of course, he had an abuser who mistreated him very severely.
i al final
and in the end
mata l'abusador
kill the abuser
que era el seu amic també
that he was also his friend
tampoc se'ns acaba d'explicar
we are also not fully explained
la relació entre els dos
the relationship between the two
una cosa una mica estranya
a slightly strange thing
que fa això com que sembla un accident
that makes it look like an accident
com que ell no ha sigut el responsable
since he has not been responsible
i com que és menor, se'n lliura
And since he is a minor, he is exempt.
no rep cap condemna
does not receive any sentence
i després com que s'intenta aprofitar d'això
and then as it tries to take advantage of this
doncs si fa això no hi ha cap repercussió
so if this is done, there are no repercussions
doncs puc matar altres persones
so I can kill other people
que tampoc hi haurà cap repercussió
that there will be no repercussions either
Sí que em veia esperar al final el que passa
I did see myself waiting in the end for what happens.
quan agafa i apunyada el rei
when he grabs and stabs the king
això no sé per què sí que m'ho esperava
I don't know why, but I expected this.
Sí, però també et diré
Yes, but I will also tell you.
que una de les coses que volia comentar
that one of the things I wanted to mention
és que tinc la sensació que
it's just that I have the feeling that
totes les situacions dramàtiques
all dramatic situations
de final de volum podríem dir
we could say at the end of the volume
o de capítol era molt previsible
or the chapter was very predictable
que no acabessin malament
that they didn't end badly
és una sensació
it's a feeling
que s'arreglaria
that would be fixed
exacte, jo sabia que quan per exemple
exactly, I knew that when for example
Grissima ataca l'Akira
Grissima attacks Akira.
jo sabia que l'Akira no moriria en aquell moment
I knew that Akira would not die at that moment.
ja, jo també
yes, me too
o m'hauria sorprès
or I would have been surprised
com a mínim m'hauria sorprès que l'Akira
At least it would have surprised me that Akira.
hagués mort en aquell moment
would have died at that moment
i el rei
and the king
m'hauria sorprès que al final el rei
I would have been surprised if in the end the king
hagués mort
would have died
hi havia un moment que m'ho arribava a creure
there was a moment when I almost believed it
és a dir, hòstia que han apunyalat
that is to say, damn they have been stabbed
l'han deixat allà i no ho saben
They have left him there and they don’t know it.
un carreró
a narrow street
s'està desencrant
it's getting unclogged
clar, és que jo ho pensava perquè per exemple
Of course, I was thinking about it because, for example,
hi ha altres obres que no acaben junts
there are other works that do not end together
al final, llavors sí que pensava
in the end, then I did think
com que és una història que és molt dramàtica
since it is a story that is very dramatic
doncs potser al final
so perhaps in the end
resulta que no acaben junts perquè ell
it turns out that they don't end up together because he
s'ha matat
has killed himself
però al final no passa
but in the end nothing happens
al final super feliços
in the end super happy
jo crec que una mica la sensació de l'obra en general
I think that a bit of the overall feeling of the work.
ja et donava peu a pensar que
I was already giving you a reason to think that
és una obra que t'explica una història d'amor
It is a work that tells you a love story.
d'unes persones que estan destinades a estar juntes
of some people who are meant to be together
i per tant acabaran juntes
and therefore they will end up together
sense més
without more
i que aniran passant coses xungues
and there will be tough things happening
és un moment complicat
it's a complicated moment
però això no vol dir que eviti
but that doesn't mean that I avoid
com el sentit general de l'obra
with the general meaning of the work
i al final és que més que el Kirishima
And in the end, it's more than Kirishima.
realment al final
really in the end
no té cap repercussió en el rei
it has no repercussions on the king
a nivell de fer que torni
in terms of making it return
a canviar la seva personalitat
to change their personality
és més el que li passa a la Kira amb els abusos del seu pare
It is more about what happens to Kira with the abuses from her father.
que no al Kirishima
not to Kirishima
sí
yes
i això és el que volia parlar
and this is what I wanted to talk about
i una altra cosa que volia parlar
and another thing I wanted to talk about
que també m'ha semblat molt interessant
which I also found very interesting
quan m'ho han tractat l'obra
when they have treated the work to me
és el tema de la mare
it's the mother's theme
de la Kira
from Kira
que no en això no n'hem parlat
that we haven't talked about this
hi ha un moment en què la Kira com deies ara
there is a moment when Kira, as you just mentioned
anuncia o comenta
announce or comment
que va patir abusos sexuals de petita
who suffered sexual abuse as a child
sí que jo crec que això
yes, I do believe that this
és la meva part preferida del manga
It's my favorite part of the manga.
a mi m'ha semblat molt interessant
I found it very interesting.
la Kira
the Kira
és la part preferida del manga
it's the favorite part of the manga
a mi també m'agrada molt
I also like it a lot.
perquè no m'ho esperava gens
because I wasn't expecting it at all
i clar va ser com ostres
And of course, it was like oysters.
clar ara entenc per què actua així al principi
Sure, now I understand why he/she acts like that at the beginning.
perquè és tan reservada perquè és tan callada
because she is so reserved because she is so quiet
perquè sembla que m'agrada molt
because it seems that I like it a lot
però no m'ho esperava gens perquè això sí que és una cosa
but I didn't expect it at all because this really is something
que no he llegit a cap manga
I haven't read any manga.
jo segur que n'hi ha altres mangas que hi ha abusos sexuals infantils
I am sure there are other mangas that deal with child sexual abuse.
però jo era la primera vegada que ho llegia en un manga
but it was the first time I read it in a manga
i no m'ho esperava
I didn't expect it.
va ser com ostres
it was like oysters
i de forma tan
and in such a way
explícites no però
not explicitly but
i ja et deixa clar que això té conseqüències
And it makes it clear that this has consequences.
vull dir que no és com mira em van abusar de mi
I mean, it's not like, look, they abused me.
bueno sí que tinc un ressentiment
Well, yes, I do have a resentment.
però ja està
but that's it
ella no vol tenir relacions sexuals
She does not want to have sexual relations.
i de fet té pànic
and in fact, he/she is panicking
de trobar-se el
to find oneself the
el seu padrastre
his stepfather
que és el responsable
who is responsible
d'aquests abusos
of these abuses
a mi sí que m'hi guinyola una mica
It does wink at me a bit.
al principi molt bé per la mare
At first, very good for the mother.
per decidir marxar de la casa on es trobaven
to decide to leave the house where they were
quan va assabentar-se
when did you find out
que la seva filla havia estat abusada
that their daughter had been abused
pel seu company, pel seu marit
for her companion, for her husband
però després
but then
la mare mateixa decideix
the mother herself decides
o li comunica una mica la intenció
or it communicates a bit the intention
de que bueno
how good
hem estat parlant i sembla que el teu pare ha canviat
We have been talking and it seems that your father has changed.
crec que podria
I believe I could.
viure amb tu sense cap problema
living with you without any problem
crec que no hi hauria
I don't think there would be.
si tu ho veus bé podríem tornar
If you think it's good, we could go back.
i així tindríem menys problemes econòmics
and thus we would have fewer economic problems
i hosti
and host
la teva filla va ser abusada fa 3 anys
your daughter was abused 3 years ago
o fa 4 saps? la poca comunicació
Oh, do you know? The little communication.
que hi ha
what's up
no es diu en cap moment de forma explícita
it is not stated at any time explicitly
això que va passar
this that happened
aquesta situació que hi va haver
this situation that happened
de violència cap a tu
of violence towards you
no es verbalitza així
it's not verbalized like that
està molt arrepentit del que va fer
he is very sorry for what he did
i ja està
and that's it
és aquella època també
it is that time too
és una cultura, una societat diferent
it is a different culture, a different society
ara potser no s'entendria tant
now perhaps it wouldn't be understood as much
però
but
no estic gaire posada
I'm not very into it.
ja no ho sé
I don’t know anymore.
potser s'hauria entès més
maybe it would have been understood better
aquesta actitud de la mare
this attitude of the mother
i ara canvi potser no tant
And now change perhaps not so much
la concepció que el pare és el que porta els ingressos
the conception that the father is the one who brings in the income
bé, l'home
well, the man
és el que porta els ingressos
it is what brings in the income
i la dona viu més mantinguda al marge
And the woman lives more maintained on the sidelines.
però jo amb aquesta part de la història també vaig dir
But with this part of the story, I also said.
ostres, en sèrio?
Wow, seriously?
o sigui estàs posant
that is, you are putting
per sobre la vida de la teva filla
about your daughter's life
però clar
but of course
si ho penses dius
if you think about it, you say
és que no li quedava un altre
it's just that he had no other choice
perquè ella la ingressen
because she is admitted
perquè treballa tant
why do you work so much
és una mica
it's a bit
una llotra
a otter
com veieu us tracten
how you are treated
si algú està escoltant això
if someone is listening to this
i no s'ha llegit l'obra encara
and the work has not been read yet
com veieu us tracten temes complicadets
As you see, they treat complex topics.
quan la mare decideix tornar a viure amb el pare
when the mother decides to live with the father again
i li comunica a l'Akira
and informs Akira
l'Akira en aquell moment està vivint amb el rei
Akira is currently living with the king.
això està una mica relacionat
this is somewhat related
amb el que dèiem abans
with what we said before
que de cop viuen molt ràpid
that all of a sudden they live very quickly
tenen 15-16 anys i de cop ja estan vivint junts
They are 15-16 years old and suddenly they are living together.
i pràcticament podeu permetre-us viure junts
and you can practically afford to live together
si sou adolescents
if you are teenagers
que també viuen en un bloc de pisos
that also live in an apartment building
o mig de ruïna
or half of ruin
però això i ella decideix tornar
but this and she decides to return
allà a la casa amb ells
there at the house with them
que dius com tornes a la casa
What do you say when you return home?
on està el teu graso sexual
Where is your sexual fat?
i el rei s'enfada amunt i li afecta més
and the king gets angry and it affects him more
la decisió aquesta de l'Akira
Akira's decision.
o sigui canvia més tota la forma de ser del rei
that is to say it changes more the whole way of being of the king
que torna com a ser
that returns as it was
un imbècil, un xulo
a fool, a jerk
que se'n va lligar a porai
that he got tied up somewhere over there
li afecta més això que dius
it affects him more than what you say
o sigui és una mica il·lògic
so it's a bit illogical
que t'afecti així, preocupa't per la teva parella
that it affects you like this, worry about your partner
intenta protegir-la, no li facis això
try to protect her, don’t do this to her
no l'abandonis ara, és que l'abandona completament
Don't abandon him now, it completely leaves him behind.
en aquella situació
in that situation
que no el queixi mal psicòpata
don't complain about the bad psychopath
que intenta matar la seva nòvia
that tries to kill his girlfriend
no ho sé, la relació de l'Akira i el rei
I don't know, the relationship between Akira and the king.
és com de dependència emocional
it's like emotional dependency
podríem dir entre els dos
we could say between the two
sempre que li passa alguna cosa a l'altre
whenever something happens to the other
doncs no ho sé
well, I don't know
jo crec que és més l'Akira
I think it's more Akira.
sí, sobretot l'Akira
yes, especially Akira
depèn més d'ell
it depends more on him
que decideixen casar-se fins i tot
that they decide to get married even
quan compleixen els 18
when they turn 18
per fugir dels entorns aquests
to escape from these surroundings
el rei vol fugir
the king wants to escape
d'aquest entorn familiar
of this family environment
de la casa gran
of the big house
en realitat l'entorn familiar del rei
in reality the royal family's environment
no és dolent
it's not bad
però té mals records
but has bad memories
de la casa i de tot en general
of the house and of everything in general
jo sí que
I do.
després de descobrir que el rei
after discovering that the king
és un nen pijo
he's a spoiled kid
és que la bosta i passa és un imbècil
it's just that the idiot is a fool
perquè realment son pare no és
because his father really isn't
o sigui no l'ha traumatitzat
so it hasn't traumatized him/her
no li ha fet res dolent
he hasn't done anything wrong to him/her.
intenta ajudar-lo
try to help him
jo quan m'assabento que el rei ve d'una família de pasta
I when I find out that the king comes from a wealthy family.
em cau molt la ment
I often lose my mind.
perquè és com, a veure senyor
because it's like, let's see sir
tenies la vida solucionada
you had your life sorted out
al principi te'l pinta com un pobre
At first, he portrays you as a poor person.
que et fa feines
that makes it difficult for you
però després tio
but then dude
tenies la vida solucionada
you had life figured out
que als 16 anys les coses es veuen diferents
that at 16 years old things look different
que compares la del rei amb la de l'Akira
that compares the one of the king with that of Akira
i dius per favor
and you say please
que econòmicament no van sobrades
that they are not financially well off
ella i sa mare que se'n van anar a l'hospitalitzar
She and her mother went to the hospital.
que ell ha patit abusos sexuals
that he has suffered sexual abuse
que son pare es va morir en un accident
that his father died in an accident
o sigui que m'estàs contant que tu estàs aquí com
So you're telling me that you're here like
és que el meu pare no em deixa córrer les motis
It's just that my father doesn't let me run the motis.
i estic molt enfadat
and I am very angry
vinga
come on
home hi ha més coses evidentment
There are obviously more things at home.
la seva mare s'ha suïcidat el seu germà també
his mother has committed suicide, his brother too
estem fent broma però en el moment
we're joking but at the moment
fins que ell no recorda lo de la seva mare
until he remembers about his mother
que sí que el seu germà es va suïcidar
that yes, her brother committed suicide
però també ho té com bloquejat al principi
but it also has it blocked at the beginning
és que es vol casar també per fugir d'aquella casa
It's just that he wants to get married to escape from that house as well.
jo realment no sé tu què pensaràs
I really don't know what you will think.
no sé si pensaràs que potser
I don't know if you will think that maybe.
hagués tornat a abusar d'ella
would have abused her again
però és quan el pare veu
but it is when the father sees
el pare veu que ella està sortint amb el rei
the father sees that she is dating the king
llavors ella un dia va a casa i li diu
then one day she goes home and tells him
qui era aquest amb qui estàs sortint
Who was this person you were dating?
no pots sortir a un paio així
you can't go out with a guy like that
perquè
why
t'emportarà a la ruïna
it will take you to ruin
i com que l'intenta prohibir
and since he tries to prohibit it
i com que forceja
and as he/she struggles
forceja
struggle
però no arriba com
but it doesn't arrive as
ella ho viu com si ell l'hagués abusat
She lives it as if he had abused her.
d'ella una altra vegada
of her again
però ell l'únic que està fent és com
but he is only doing is like
pare espera t'escolta no et moguis
Dad, wait, I’m listening, don’t move.
no te'n vagis d'aquí no et deixo sortir
Don't leave here, I won't let you go out.
perquè no vull que vagis amb aquest noi
because I don't want you to go out with that boy
jo crec que sí que hagués reincidit
I think that I would have relapsed.
que hagués tornat a patir
that I would have suffered again
jo crec que sí perquè se'l veia clarament gelós
I think so because he clearly seemed jealous.
de la relació i al final
of the relationship and in the end
si està gelós és perquè alguna cosa hi ha
If he is jealous, it's because there is something.
clar però no queda al 100%
clear but it doesn't stay at 100%
perquè després com que ho intenta arreglar
because afterwards they try to fix it
perquè ell
because he
ja ho sent així bastant heavy no?
I feel like that's pretty heavy, isn't it?
sí està bé
yes it's fine
ella ha d'anunciar-lo
She has to announce it.
ella també té una mica aquest
she also has a bit of this
monstre interior de que
inner monster of what
és veritat ostres això no recordava
It's true, wow, I didn't remember that.
quan ella li confessa al rei que des del moment
when she confesses to the king that from the moment
que ell abusa el pare abusa el pare d'Astra
that he abuses the father abuses the father of Astra
abusa ella havia començat a imaginar-se
she had started to imagine
totes les formes a l'escalmetaria
all the shapes in the scale meter
i llavors que tenia com un odi a tothom
and then I had like a hatred for everyone
i s'imaginava com moria la gent del seu voltant
and imagined how the people around him died.
no va tant al pare ni res
it doesn't go much to the father or anything
i el pare després intenta contactar amb ella
and the father then tries to contact her
per dir-li ho sento molt
to say I'm very sorry
estava preocupat no t'anava a fer res
I was worried nothing was going to happen to you.
m'agradaria també parlar una mica del final
I would also like to talk a little about the ending.
no sé que n'opines
I don't know what you think about it.
una mica de com
a bit of how
de com s'acaba
how it ends
s'acaba una mica en fals penso
I think it ends a bit falsely.
és com si haguessin faltat alguns capítols més
It's as if some more chapters were missing.
pensava que se li dóna molta importància
I thought that a lot of importance is given to him/her.
a la carta aquesta que troba l'Akira
to the letter that Akira finds
perquè és com ostres
because it's like oysters
com unes últimes paraules abans que
like some final words before that
es tregués la vida no?
he would take his life, right?
i que ningú més ha llegit aquelles paraules
and that no one else has read those words
clar si es llegeix ella tampoc sembla que ella
Sure, if you read it, she also doesn't seem like she does.
tregui cap conclusió així molt
Don't draw any conclusions like that.
no sé què fer no sé si ensenyar-li o no
I don't know what to do, I don't know whether to teach him/her or not.
ho amaga la carta després de tornar a treure
he hides the letter after taking it out again
i al final li dóna
and in the end, he/she gives it to him/her
i quan li dóna jo pensava que tindria un impacte més gran
And when it happened, I thought it would have a bigger impact.
però realment
but really
ho llegeix i diu
he reads it and says
doncs que tonto ets perquè
well how stupid you are because
encara m'hauràs d'esperar molt de temps
you will still have to wait for me a long time
perquè jo no em penso suicidar ara
because I am not planning to commit suicide now
o sigui tota la importància que s'ha donat a la carta aquesta
that is, all the importance that has been given to this letter
i li dóna i és com
and it gives him and it's like
doncs vaya tonteria
well, what nonsense
a mi sí que em va deixar una mica freda
It did leave me a bit cold.
però m'esperava que hi hagués
but I was expecting that there would be
més veient tot el recorregut de la sèrie
more seeing the whole course of the series
i com en alguns moments és així de dramàtica
and as in some moments it is this dramatic
en alguns aspectes tio que t'estigui
in some aspects dude that it is
que estàs llegint la carta del teu germà
that you are reading your brother's letter
que és una cosa que t'està sugestionant
What is something that is suggesting to you?
durant tot el punyadero manga i ara estiguis
"throughout the whole damn sleeve and now you are"
rotllo doncs vale
So, okay.
doncs me vaig a córrer amb la moto
So I'm going to ride the motorbike.
és que s'acaba així és que és com vale
it ends like this is it’s like okay
i ja està és com inconclusa
And that's it, it's kind of inconclusive.
i ens falta un març
and we are missing a March
dos aquí
two here
és massa ràpid o sigui el moment que li dóna la carta
it's too fast, that is, the moment he hands her the letter
ell llegeix i ja està
he reads and that's it
i s'acaba no hi ha cap impacte
and it's over there is no impact
real no sé
I really don't know.
no passa res més
nothing else happens
ja està l'altra que estava tan ratllada per donar-li
The other one that was so annoyed about giving it to him/her is ready.
la carta és com doncs li donava igual
the letter is like so it didn't matter to him
que li donessis és com molt metafòrica
what you gave him is very metaphorical
l'obra tota l'estona o sigui t'està ensenyant
the work all the time, that is, it's teaching you
com moltes coses que potser hi ha alguna cosa
like many things, there may be something
que no estem entenent clar hi ha alguna cosa
that we are not understanding clearly there is something
que no estem entenent és molt simbòlic
what we are not understanding is very symbolic
és això o sigui jo penso que al final
it's this or I mean I think that in the end
l'autor va intentar fer un final
the author tried to create an ending
que fos el màxim simbòlic possible
that it would be the maximum possible symbolic
després de tot això que ha passat ja
after everything that has happened already
ho sabem tot ara comencem a
we know everything now let's start to
viure no ara comencem a fer el nostre propi camí
to live not now we begin to make our own way
jo hauria fet una altra cosa
I would have done something else.
la veritat ja és que potser no anava tant
The truth is that maybe it didn't go that well.
de que hi hagués una conclusió molt
that there would be a very strong conclusion
forta o un desenllaç així
strong or a resolution like this
espectacular
spectacular
potser era més simplement
perhaps it was more simply
vivències d'adolescents
teenage experiences
relacionades amb el seu passat traumàtic
related to their traumatic past
i amb com ho estan visquent ara
and how they are experiencing it now
i bueno jo és que més que dir
And well, I mean, more than saying.
el punt aquest àlgid de la carta potser diria
this critical point of the letter could perhaps say
que és tota la part aquesta de quan recorda
what is all this part about when he/she remembers
de com es va suïcidar la mare
about how the mother committed suicide
també relacionat amb el seu pare biològic
also related to his biological father
i tota la història
and all the history
de saber la realitat de què va passar
to know the reality of what happened
que no en si al final
that it is not in itself in the end
és com que va desenvolupant-se a poc a poc
It's as if it is developing little by little.
i ja està
and that's it
però bé acabem aquest podcast ja
but well let's finish this podcast already
hem estat molta estona
we have been a long time
ho haurem de retallar molt
we will have to cut it a lot
però si que volia destacar que la Fuyumi Sōryō
but I did want to highlight that Fuyumi Sōryō
l'autora va debutar
the author made her debut
com a mangaka professional
as a professional mangaka
amb Hidemarino Homoncha
with Hidemarino Homoncha
que és visita d'ataca solars
what is a solar attack visit
a l'any 82
in the year 82
durant un parell d'anys va treballar com a assistent
for a couple of years he worked as an assistant
del mangaka Fuyumi Gura
by the mangaka Fuyumi Gura
i es va fer un nom dins de
and he/she made a name for himself/herself in
les revistes Shōjo
Shōjo magazines
el 88 va ser guardonada
the 88 was awarded
amb el premi
with the prize
pel manga Manga World
for the Manga Manga World
pel manga Boyfriend
for the manga Boyfriend
i el 2001 va passar a publicar
and in 2001 it began to be published
principalment manga Seinen
mainly Seinen manga
també publicant a la revista Morning
also publishing in the Morning magazine
i una de les obres més conegudes
and one of the most well-known works
és Cesare
it's Cesare
que se centra al voltant de la família Borja
which focuses on the Borja family
del retenciment italià
of the Italian retention
i el mateix César Borja
and the same César Borja
això encara no ens ha arribat aquí
this has not reached us here yet
i ho comento precisament perquè penso que
and I mention it precisely because I think that
amb el tipus de trames que em puc llegir
with the type of plots that I can read
penso que estaria molt bé que es continuessin
I think it would be great if they continued.
publicant obres de l'autora
publishing works of the author
d'altres estils
of other styles
no només Cesare sinó que també hi ha altres obres
not only Cesare but there are also other works
per exemple l'última és un biòpic sobre
for example the last one is a biopic about
la reina Maria Antonieta
Queen Marie Antoinette
o sigui que té obres de tot tipus d'aquesta autora
So she has works of all types by this author.
però bé, nosaltres ens acomiadem aquí
but well, we say our goodbyes here
segurament ens haurem deixat alguna cosa per comentar
we have probably left something out to comment on
de març, però vaja
in March, but anyway
teniu moltes ganes de fer aquest
are you very excited to do this
cinquantè programa, avui que és
fiftieth program, today is
el cinquantè podcast que en vengem
the fiftieth podcast that we sell
Ah sí? Ui, felicitat!
Oh really? Wow, congratulations!
Després de més de tres anys
After more than three years
gràcies per escoltar-nos
thank you for listening to us
i a reveure! Adeu, adeu!
And goodbye! Bye, bye!
Fins demà!
See you tomorrow!
Ja no respiro
I no longer breathe.
com respirava
how he/she was breathing
Espiro cendres
I exhale ashes.
en comptes d'aire
instead of air
i no respiro
and I don't breathe
com respirava
how he/she was breathing
expulso sucre
I expel sugar.
de les entranyes
from the guts
ja no camino
I no longer walk.
com caminava
how he/she walked
ara tinc branques
now I have branches
en comptes d'ares
instead of ares
i no camino
and I don't walk
com caminava
how he/she was walking
trepitjo somnis
I step on dreams.
de mirada
of glance
mărquim
márquim
de mar
of the sea
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