#24 Fracassar millor

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Please provide the text you would like me to translate from Catalan to English.

Totes i tots tenim imatges de la cara més lluminosa

All of us have images of the brightest face.

del món del cinema i la televisió.

from the world of cinema and television.

Estrenes, premis a festivals internacionals,

Premieres, awards at international festivals,

èxits a doble pàgina,

double-page successes,

albs suplement cultural, fotocalls...

supplementary cultural events, photo opportunities...

Però per cada projecte que s'estrena

But for every project that is launched

n'hi ha d'altres que mai no arriben a veure la llum.

there are others that never see the light.

Són guions arriscats que no interessen a cap productora,

They are risky scripts that no producer is interested in.

pel·lícules que no reben ajudes públiques,

films that do not receive public funding,

sèries que acaben en el purgatori etern

series that end in eternal purgatory

del que alguns anomenen development hell.

of what some call development hell.

O pitjor encara, sèries que sí que s'estrenen

Or even worse, series that actually premiere.

i ben aviat desapareixen a l'algoritme de les plataformes,

and soon they disappear into the algorithm of the platforms,

pel·lícules que es presenten a un festival remot

films presented at a remote festival

i després no veu ni la nostra família.

And then he didn't even see our family.

Els guionistes ens enfrontem al fracàs i a la decepció

Screenwriters face failure and disappointment.

en totes les seves formes.

in all its forms.

Però si això és així, per què no se'n parla més?

But if this is the case, why is it not talked about more?

Per què els programes de formació no se'ns donen les eines

Why aren't we given the tools in training programs?

per aprendre a conviure amb tota aquesta incertesa?

to learn to live with all this uncertainty?

Aquesta és la part que no sentiu mai a les entrevistes.

This is the part you never hear in interviews.

Avui, a La Trama, anem a descobrir com fracassar millor.

Today, at La Trama, we are going to discover how to fail better.

La Trama. Converses de guionistes.

The Plot. Conversations of Screenwriters.

Doncs tanquem la temporada tal com la vam començar,

So we close the season as we started it,

tots i totes quatre al voltant d'aquesta taula,

all of us four around this table,

però si aleshores parlàvem del moment il·lusionant on comença tot,

but if then we were talking about the exciting moment where it all begins,

als laboratoris d'escriptura i a les residències,

to the writing laboratories and to the residencies,

avui per tancar aquestes 12 setmanes volem deconstruir un petit tabú.

Today, to close these 12 weeks, we want to deconstruct a small taboo.

Què passa quan les coses no surten com esperàvem?

What happens when things don't turn out as we expected?

I sobretot, com podem gestionar tot això des d'un punt de vista emocional?

And above all, how can we manage all of this from an emotional standpoint?

Avui en aquesta taula estem tots quatre,

Today at this table, we are all four.

Víctor Alonso Verbel, Laia Soler Aragonès, Pau Sobiros i qui us parla, Víctor Sala.

Víctor Alonso Verbel, Laia Soler Aragonès, Pau Sobiros and the one speaking to you, Víctor Sala.

Fer una mica de teràpia de grup avui és el que estem realitzant.

Doing a bit of group therapy today is what we are doing.

Final d'any i moment de recapitular el que hem viscut per projectar-nos en el futur, no?

End of the year and a moment to recap what we have experienced to project ourselves into the future, right?

Aquest moment de tancar, no? Balanç d'any, a veure,

This moment of closing, right? Year-end balance, let's see,

i aplicar aquest moment també d'aquest gran desconegut que no se'n parla massa,

and apply this moment also of this great unknown that is not often talked about,

d'això, de com gestionar una mica el fracàs, la decepció emocionalment,

about this, about how to manage failure a bit, the emotional disappointment,

tota aquesta part.

all this part.

Que segurament ens ocupa més hores de les que es comenten, no?

That probably occupies us more hours than are discussed, right?

I que queda una mica reduït a un segon pla sempre i que no compartim tant.

And it always seems a bit reduced to the background and we don't share as much.

És, diguéssim, el contrari de la punta de l'Isabert, no?

It is, let's say, the opposite of Isabert's peak, right?

És l'Isabert, realment, perquè realment l'escriptura té molt d'això, no?

It's Isabert, really, because writing really has a lot of that, right?

De projectes que no acaben d'arrencar,

Of projects that do not quite take off,

d'idees que es queden allà una mica mig avortades.

of ideas that remain there somewhat half-aborted.

I és veritat el que dèiem a la introducció, no?

And it's true what we said in the introduction, isn't it?

Que normalment el que es fa públic, el que d'alguna manera té visibilitat,

What is normally made public, what in some way has visibility,

és justament allò que sí que arriba fins al final,

it is precisely what does reach the end,

però per això em sembla interessant enfonsar-nos, diguéssim, en aquesta altra banda, avui.

But for that, it seems interesting to delve, let's say, into this other side today.

I abordar una mica les muntanyes de projectes que s'han quedat allà

I'm addressing a bit the mountain of projects that have been left there.

i que queda l'espineta allà clavada.

And the thorn remains embedded there.

Potser avui és moment, com deia el Víctor, de fer les cures

Perhaps today is the time, as Víctor said, to take care of ourselves.

i de contemplar-los i fer-los un funeral bonic, d'alguna manera.

and to contemplate them and give them a beautiful funeral, in some way.

Tu fas això, Laia? Fas funerals pels projectes?

Do you do this, Laia? Do you hold funerals for the projects?

No, no, jo els tinc enquistats allà tots.

No, no, I've got them all trapped there.

Estan allagonitzats, no? A la UBI.

They are alligatorized, right? At the UBI.

Sí.

Yes.

Jo no vaig fer mai allò que es feia molta gent del meu col·le,

I never did what a lot of people from my school did,

de cremar els apunts per Sant Joan, no? Aquella cosa terapèutica.

to burn the notes for Sant Joan, right? That therapeutic thing.

Jo crec que els projectes, encara estarà una carpeta oblidada a l'ordinador allà,

I believe that the projects will still be a forgotten folder on the computer there.

no faig l'esforç d'esborrar algunes coses, no?

I don't make the effort to erase some things, do I?

Encara et sembla que t'hi puguis aferrar en algun moment, no revisitar-los?

Do you still think you could hold on to them at some point, not revisit them?

No sé si seria terapèutic, realment.

I don't know if it would really be therapeutic.

O sigui, desperten algun dia, no?

So, they wake up someday, right?

És allò que ha d'aferrar-se a la possibilitat que despertin

It is that which must cling to the possibility that they awaken.

i que algun dia els puguis reprendre, no?

And that one day you can take them up again, right?

L'esperança és l'última que es perd, no?

Hope is the last to be lost, isn't it?

Hi ha moltes formes de per a caçar i al llarg del programa d'avui

There are many ways to hunt and throughout today's program

intentarem recopilar-ne unes quantes.

We will try to gather a few of them.

Potser una de les més habituals és quan comencem il·lusionades,

Perhaps one of the most common is when we start excitedly,

il·lusionats amb un projecte i ens trobem que a ningú més li interessa,

excited about a project and we find that no one else is interested,

que només nosaltres tenim aquesta empenta,

that only we have this drive,

l'anem presentant a productores i ningú ens diu que sí, realment, no?

We are presenting it to producers and no one is saying yes to us, really, right?

Jo me'n recordo, de fet, que en un dels primers llargmetratges que vaig escriure

I remember, in fact, that in one of the first feature films I wrote

pensava que un cop jo establís aquestes relacions amb les productores,

I thought that once I established these relationships with the producers,

es llegissin el guió, etcètera,

they read the script, etcetera,

després un cop vaig començar a treballar amb una productora,

after I started working with a production company,

els hi hauria de dir a les altres que no,

they should be told to the others that no,

els hi hauria de dir, mira, ho sento perquè sé que estàveu interessades,

they should be told, look, I'm sorry because I know you were interested,

interessats, però ja estic treballant amb algú.

Interested, but I am already working with someone.

I vaig pensar, bé, de fet, espera't, espera't que siguin elles els que diguin

I thought, well, actually, wait, wait for them to say it.

com continuem la conversa, mai vaig haver d'escriure cap correu,

how we continue the conversation, I never had to write any email,

us ho podeu creure, us ha passat alguna vegada, alguna cosa així.

Can you believe it, has something like this ever happened to you?

No vaig haver de demanar que et rebaixessin el sou, no, mira, no em pagueu tant.

I didn't have to ask for them to lower your salary, no, look, don't pay me that much.

No vaig haver de fer res més, totes s'havien oblidat absolutament

I didn't have to do anything else; they had all completely forgotten.

que existia aquell projecte.

that project existed.

I és una cosa, de fet, bastant habitual, no?

And it's something, in fact, quite common, isn't it?

Que són tots aquests correus a porta freda, que les guionistes i els guionistes

What are all these cold emails about, that the screenwriters and the screenwriters?

hem d'escriure i hem d'enviar sobretot els principis

we must write and we must send above all the principles

de les nostres carreres professionals,

of our professional careers,

i que moltes vegades es queden en un purgatori de l'oblit

and that many times they remain in a purgatory of oblivion

de l'avalanxa de projectes que tenen les productores, no?

from the avalanche of projects that the producers have, right?

Sí, jo, de fet, que he treballat, suposo que molta gent,

Yes, I, in fact, have worked, I suppose many people,

segurament vosaltres també, i moltes de les persones que ens escolten,

surely you too, and many of the people who listen to us,

llegint projectes, no?, llegint projectes que arriben a les productores

reading projects, right?, reading projects that arrive at the producers

i fent la criba i fent informes, no?

And doing the screening and making reports, right?

I jo crec que m'he desenvolupat una mena d'empatia

And I believe that I have developed a kind of empathy.

cap a aquests projectes que arriben i potser per aquí ve la idea

towards these projects that are coming and perhaps this is where the idea comes from

de fer un funeral, no?, de pensar, pobre aquell projecte que ha quedat,

to have a funeral, right? to think, poor that project that has been left behind,

que l'has acabat destruint a la màquina destructora de paper, no?

that you have ended up destroying it in the paper shredding machine, right?

Quina llàstima.

What a pity.

Sembla educat diguin que no, i a vegades penso que és molt millor

It seems polite to say no, and sometimes I think it's much better.

rebre una resposta, no?, encara que sigui una resposta negativa.

to receive a response, right? Even if it's a negative response.

Sí, perquè el pitjor és aquesta situació quan no reps una resposta

Yes, because the worst is this situation when you don't receive a response.

i tu estàs pensant que potser la rebràs,

and you are thinking that maybe you will receive it,

però no es rep.

but it doesn't go off.

A mi aquí és una mica un altre àmbit, potser em desvio una mica del tema del guió,

For me, here it's a bit of a different area, maybe I'm straying a bit from the script topic,

però jo a vegades faig algunes col·laboracions periodístiques, no?,

but sometimes I do some journalistic collaborations, right?

i a vegades me les demanen, però a vegades a mi em ve de gust escriure sobre alguna cosa

And sometimes they ask me for them, but sometimes I feel like writing about something.

i fas un article i l'envies, no?, al diari.

And you write an article and send it, right?, to the newspaper.

I en aquest cas el que passa moltes vegades és que el fet que et responguin ràpid o no

And in this case, what often happens is that whether they respond quickly or not

és clau, perquè el que tu has escrit probablement és una cosa que està una mica lligada a l'actualitat

It is key, because what you have written is probably something that is somewhat related to current events.

i, per tant, si et responen...

and, therefore, if they respond to you...

D'aquí una setmana tu ja no té sentit que ho envis a un altre lloc

In a week, it no longer makes sense for you to go elsewhere.

i és una cosa que ja queda...

and it's something that stays...

I, per tant, jo sempre que faig això el que demano precisament és dir

And therefore, whenever I do this, what I precisely ask is to say.

prefereixo un no ràpid que qualsevol altra cosa.

I prefer a quick no to anything else.

Si m'has de dir que no, no tinc cap problema, però digue-m'ho ràpid, diguéssim, no?,

If you have to tell me no, I have no problem with that, but tell me quickly, let's say, okay?

perquè és el que a tu et dona un cert marge d'acció, realment, no?, de reacció, vaja.

because it's what gives you a certain margin of action, really, right? of reaction, that is.

I ara em plantejava dir si creieu que estem en un moment

And now I was thinking to say if you believe we are in a moment

on es reben més sis i nos a la vida que abans.

Where more six and no are received in life than before.

O sigui, si abans...

So, if before...

Per exemple, ara ja t'ho he dit.

For example, now I've already told you.

Aquests moments que, a part del món de productores directament,

These moments that, apart from the world of producers directly,

que sí que és més finalista, també,

which is indeed more conclusive, too,

amb totes aquestes oportunitats de laboratoris,

with all these laboratory opportunities,

que veus que hi ha 2.000 projectes que s'han presentat

that you see that there are 2,000 projects that have been submitted

i se'n seleccionen 16 o de més, no?,

And they select 16 or more, right?

també aquest punt de filtres previs,

also this point of preliminary filters,

no sé si creieu que ara hi ha més informació

I don't know if you think that there is more information now.

de si et diuen sí o no que abans.

Whether they say yes or no before.

Pot ser que s'hagi tornat tan transparent

Could it be that it has become so transparent?

com passava amb el món del càsting anteriorment.

as it used to happen with the casting world before.

Jo me'n recordo quan vivia a Los Angeles,

I remember when I lived in Los Angeles,

i allà arribaven centenars i centenars de candidats,

and there arrived hundreds and hundreds of candidates,

actors i actrius cada any,

actors and actresses every year,

els avisàvem pels càstings dels nostres projectes

we informed them about the castings for our projects

i es podien presentar 1.000, 2.000 intèrprets

and 1,000, 2,000 interpreters could be presented

exactament amb el mateix perfil pel mateix paper.

exactly with the same profile for the same role.

I el dia que feies les proves,

And the day you took the tests,

tu n'havies trucat a 150, 200, que ja era una barbaritat,

you had called at 150, 200, which was already outrageous,

i es posaven en una filera

and they lined up

i tenien tots exactament el mateix cos, la mateixa cara,

and they all had exactly the same body, the same face,

s'havien posat ulleres,

they had put on glasses,

si es tractava de fer de professors o professorses d'universitat,

if it was about becoming university professors,

com si això...

as if this...

Exacte, com si això ens permetria veure

Exactly, as if that would allow us to see.

que eren nois i noies de metre 90, no?

They were boys and girls of one meter ninety, right?

Però la qüestió és que per ells i per elles

But the question is that for them.

era molt transparent tota la competència a la qual s'enfrontàvem

the competition we faced was very transparent

i, d'alguna manera,

and, in some way,

tota la gent que estava perseguint el mateix somni que ells i que elles.

all the people who were pursuing the same dream as them.

Penso que en el món del guió, de la direcció,

I think that in the world of screenwriting, directing,

mai no ha estat així de transparent

it has never been this transparent

fins que han arribat, com deies tu ara, Víctor,

until they have arrived, as you just said now, Víctor,

tots aquests laboratoris, residències, les ajudes públiques,

all these laboratories, residences, public aid,

on veus tots aquests llistats

do you see all these lists

amb totes les desenes i desenes de projectes

with all the dozens and dozens of projects

que, com el teu,

that, like yours,

s'estan desenvolupant cada any, no?

They are developing every year, aren't they?

I potser el rebuig es va acumulant

And perhaps the rejection is accumulating.

i es torna tan transparent

and it becomes so transparent

com el que estaven acostumades i acostumats

like what they were used to

a rebre els actors i actrius.

to welcome the actors and actresses.

Però sí que és veritat que hi ha un punt, això, no?,

But it is true that there is a point, right?

molt finalista.

very finalist.

Hi ha moltes oportunitats

There are many opportunities.

que tinguis o llum verda o llum vermella

may you have either green light or red light

i que potser està més clar que a vegades això, no?,

And perhaps this is clearer than sometimes, isn’t it?

el que dèiem de la incògnita d'enviar-ho a productores

what we were saying about the uncertainty of sending it to producers

i que es mantingui en un silenci estrany i ambigu

and that it remains in a strange and ambiguous silence

en el qual, doncs, no saps si està en un calaix,

in which, therefore, you don't know if it's in a drawer,

si s'està acabant de valorar o no.

if it is being evaluated or not.

Doncs queda més determinat.

Well, it is more determined.

Bé, la veritat és que a vegades

Well, the truth is that sometimes

ho hem convertit una mica en un espectacle, no?,

We've turned it a bit into a show, haven't we?

això del que ara tu parlaves d'aquests càstings,

this thing you were just talking about these castings,

perquè tots els talent shows i tot això

because all the talent shows and all that

es basa precisament en aquesta...

It is based precisely on this...

Bueno, en allargar aquests processos

Well, in lengthening these processes.

i donar-los un component així...

and give them a component like this...

Sí, espectacular, no?,

Yes, spectacular, isn’t it?

i convertir-ho, diguéssim, en una trama, justament, no?

and turn it, let's say, into a plot, precisely, right?

No estic segur que sigui una cosa gaire...

I'm not sure it's a very... thing.

gaire desitjable, això, la veritat.

not very desirable, this, to be honest.

No, en tot cas, a veure,

No, in any case, let's see,

és una mica jugar amb la intensitat,

it's a bit about playing with the intensity,

amb la incertesa, no?,

with the uncertainty, right?

i jo el que sí que penso, que en aquest sentit,

and I what I do think is that in this regard,

tu quan estàs desenvolupant alguna cosa

you when you are developing something

i aboques no només unes hores,

and you dedicate not only a few hours,

sinó un vincle emocional, un ànim,

but an emotional bond, a spirit,

unes emocions i unes expectatives, no?,

some emotions and some expectations, right?

i jo crec que no està de més

And I think it's not too much.

correspondre a aquestes expectatives

correspond to these expectations

i dir-ne un no, encara que sigui

and say a no, even if it's

en format pautat a la plantilla típica,

in a structured format to the typical template,

però, d'alguna manera,

but, somehow,

és com que abaixes

it's like you lower down

aquella expectativa i dius

that expectation and you say

vale, doncs ja està.

Okay, that's it.

Si jo tenia planificat aquest estiu

If I had planned this summer

no fer res per passar-me l'estiu

doing nothing to get through the summer

treballant aquest projecte

working on this project

a veure si me l'agafaven,

let's see if they took it from me,

doncs ja saps que no, no?,

Well, you already know that no, right?

i pots seguir endavant.

and you can move forward.

El problema, jo crec,

The problem, I believe,

quan s'acumulen moltes situacions d'incertesa, no?,

when many situations of uncertainty accumulate, right?

i tens molts, molts

and you have many, many

missils llançats a diverses productores

missiles launched at various producers

i llavors, i no reps els nos,

and then, you don't receive the no's,

jo crec que també hi ha

I think there is also.

que hi ha de fracàs aquí, és a dir,

what failure is there here, that is,

i és més fracàs que no et responguin,

and it is more of a failure that they do not respond to you,

o que et responguin

or that they respond to you

i et diguin que no, no?,

and they tell you no, right?

penso que aquí hi ha alguna cosa...

I think there is something here...

I aquí també, què preferiu?

And here too, what do you prefer?

Si creieu que és millor que us diguin

If you think it's better for them to tell you.

un simple no, no és el que busquem,

a simple no, is not what we are looking for,

o qualsevol excusa

or any excuse

educada a l'hora de posar-ho aquí,

polite when putting it here,

o que donin alguns motius

or give some reasons

concrets, específics,

concrete, specific

perquè, a vegades,

because, sometimes,

l'altre dia m'explicaven d'una sèrie

The other day they were telling me about a series.

que es va presentar a un festival

that was presented at a festival

i acabada i rodada,

and finished and shot,

que es va presentar a un festival bastant important

that was presented at a quite important festival

li van fer una, diguéssim,

they did one to him, let's say,

una carta de no, finalment, no acceptarem la sèrie

a letter of no, finally, we will not accept the series

perquè em sembla que aquesta trama

because it seems to me that this plot

està tractada d'una manera infantil

it is treated in a childish manner

i em sembla que aquesta altra part

And it seems to me that this other part

hauria d'estar més desenvolupada.

it should be more developed.

Dius, no sé si el teu paper

You say, I don't know if your role

com a programador de festival

as a festival programmer

dóna dret a fer aquest anàlisi.

gives the right to carry out this analysis.

No sé si és una cosa que pot ser positiva

I don't know if it's something that can be positive.

perquè dius, mira, s'han pres la consideració

Why do you say, look, they have taken the consideration?

d'explicar quin és el que ells

to explain which one is theirs

no els hi han queixat.

They haven't complained to them.

O si, per una altra banda, dius, no sé si és la teva feina

Oh yes, on the other hand, you say, I don't know if it's your job.

ficar-te en aquesta...

get into this...

Sí, el que passa és que tot el que siguin feedbacks

Yes, the thing is that anything related to feedbacks

tu després els pots gestionar com vulguis

you can manage them however you want later

però jo sí que trobo que és d'agrair

but I do find it gratifying

que si algú ha dedicat el temps

that if someone has dedicated the time

a llegir-se una cosa que has fet

to read something that you have done

et doni la seva opinió, encara que sigui una opinió

give you their opinion, even if it is just an opinion

que tu potser no t'agradarà sentir.

that you might not like to hear.

I, de fet, per exemple, això és...

I, in fact, for example, this is...

Trobo una cosa molt bona que fan

I find something very good that they do.

a França, en moltes de les convocatòries

in France, in many of the calls

de finançament públic,

public financing,

reps realment més enllà

you really receive beyond

d'una mera puntuació, d'un sí o un no,

from a mere score, from a yes or a no,

sovint reps algun tipus de

you often receive some kind of

feedback més qualitatiu,

more qualitative feedback,

et pot ajudar

it can help you

en el posterior desenvolupament.

in the subsequent development.

De totes maneres, el que jo no faria és

Anyway, what I wouldn't do is

esperar que això passi.

wait for this to happen.

Jo insisteixo en el que deia abans,

I insist on what I said before,

jo prefereixo, per exemple, que algú

I prefer, for example, that someone

fins i tot ni es llegés el que li envies

not even what you send him would be read.

però et digui que no, per la raó que

but I tell you no, for the reason that

senzillament perquè no té temps de llegir-s'ho

simply because he/she doesn't have time to read it

o perquè no li caus bé

or because you don't get along well with him/her

o per la raó que sigui, no?

or for whatever reason, right?

Però tu ja tens aquell no

But you already have that no.

perquè, evidentment, no li pots anar demanant

because, obviously, you can't keep asking him/her

a tothom que tingui el temps i l'energia

to everyone who has the time and energy

de dedicar molt

to dedicate a lot

d'esforç a la lectura

of effort in reading

de tots els projectes que reben,

of all the projects they receive,

però el que és important, jo penso, és no allargar

but what is important, I think, is not to prolong it.

excessivament aquesta incertesa que et deixa

excessively this uncertainty that leaves you

en una situació d'una certa paràlisi, no?

in a situation of a certain paralysis, right?

Penso que en qualsevol cas és veritat

I think that in any case it is true.

que abusem a vegades d'aquest discurs

that we sometimes take advantage of this discourse

de l'autoajuda, que s'ha de creure en un mateix

from self-help, one must believe in oneself

i una mateixa, i és veritat que a vegades necessites

and the same one, and it's true that sometimes you need

senyals externs, i això pot arribar

external signals, and this can arrive

en forma de feedback, pot arribar en forma de

as feedback, it can come in the form of

com s'està percebent allò que he escrit

How is what I have written being perceived?

per part d'altres persones, no?

On the part of other people, right?

Perquè, si no, és com el meme de

Because, if not, it's like the meme of

dame una senyal, no? És a dir,

give me a sign, right? That is to say,

necessites que algú et digui

you need someone to tell you

si estàs anant en la direcció correcta o no, no?

whether you are heading in the right direction or not, right?

I parlant d'això us volia preguntar també

And speaking of that, I also wanted to ask you.

per aquests casos en els que ens diuen

for these cases in which they tell us

activament que no, com els heu rebut?

actively no, how have you received them?

Com els estineu emocionalment

How are you emotionally?

aquests nos? Us afecten? Hi ha hagut

these us? Do they affect you? There has been

algun cas en el que realment hagueu quedat

any case in which you have really stayed

impactades, impactats?

impacted, impacted?

Potser s'hauria de dir que no, però la realitat

Perhaps it should be said no, but the reality

és que sí, no?

It is true, isn't it?

Jo, per exemple, a mi m'ha passat més

Me, for example, it has happened to me more.

també en un projecte

also in a project

que no era tan cinematogràfic com literari, no?

that it was not as cinematic as it was literary, right?

Però jo recordo el primer llibre que vaig escriure

But I remember the first book that I wrote.

que

that

vaig tenir aquesta sort

I had this luck.

de presentar-lo a un editor

to present it to a publisher

que a més era un bon editor

that he was also a good editor

i rebre un sí

and receive a yes

molt ràpidament, no?

Very quickly, right?

I, bueno, allò va ser festa grossa

I, well, that was a big party.

aquell dia vam obrir moltes

that day we opened many

bueno, anava dient potser de xampany

Well, I was thinking maybe champagne.

però més aviat van ser altres tipus

but rather they were other types

d'abrabatges, però en tot cas vam estar

of hugs, but in any case we were

molt contents i llavors jo després

very happy and then me afterwards

em vaig embarcar en un projecte

I embarked on a project.

literari d'una novel·la

literary of a novel

en la qual hi vaig dedicar

in which I devoted myself

molt de temps

a long time

i d'alguna manera inconscientment

and somehow unconsciously

jo tenia una mica l'expectativa

I had a bit of an expectation.

que fos igual de fàcil, no?

That it was just as easy, right?

I el que em vaig trobar en aquest cas és que

And what I found in this case is that

li vaig presentar al mateix editor

I introduced him to the same editor.

estava ja

was already

amb el telèfon a la mà esperant

with the phone in hand waiting

aquest sí i va ser un no

this yes and it was a no

o un no amb certs matisos

or a no with certain nuances

però en tot cas

but in any case

allò de moment

that for now

encara no s'ha publicat i realment

it has not been published yet and really

clar, és un xoc

of course, it's a shock

és un xoc perquè

it's a shock because

el xoc en aquest cas no és tant el no

the shock in this case is not so much the no

com el xoc amb les teves expectatives

with the clash of your expectations

i

I

evidentment depèn

obviously it depends

de mil factors, com tu reps una cosa així

of a thousand factors, how do you receive something like that

però per exemple a mi el que em va passar

but for example what happened to me

en aquest cas és que

in this case it is that

havia arribat al límit de les meves forces

I had reached the limit of my strength.

diguéssim, per arribar en aquella

let's say, to get to that one

versió que jo vaig enviar

version that I sent

i el no que vaig rebre

and the no that I received

no era un no definitiu, era una invitació

it wasn't a definitive no, it was an invitation

a treballar una mica més en el projecte

to work a little more on the project

però jo en aquell moment no tenia

but at that moment I didn't have

la motivació ni la

the motivation nor the

energia com per fer-ho

energy to do it

i per tant sí que el vaig, per mi era

And therefore yes, I did, for me it was.

una mica definitiu realment, perquè era com dir

a little definitive really, because it was like saying

jo ara no puc treballar més amb això

I can't work with this anymore right now.

i la veritat és que sí

And the truth is that yes.

no és fàcil de

it's not easy to

a mi no em va ser fàcil d'assumir

It was not easy for me to accept.

de fet és un d'aquests projectes

in fact, it is one of those projects

com parlàvem abans que està allà

as we were saying before, he is there

encara que no saps si està del tot tancat o no

even though you don't know if it is completely closed or not

i jo penso que el que és

and I think that what is

important és una mica també tenir la consciència

It's also important to have awareness a little.

que el món és molt gran, que hi ha molts

that the world is very big, that there are many.

altres projectes i il·lusionar-te ràpidament

other projects and get excited quickly

amb altres coses. Ahir em va passar una cosa que és una mica

with other things. Yesterday something happened to me that is a bit

curiosa que en el fons

curious that deep down

no sé si ajuda o si va una mica

I don't know if it helps or if it goes a little.

a la contra, que és, ja ho vaig explicar en un altre

on the contrary, what it is, I already explained it in another

programa, però és, ens van comprar

program, but it is, they bought us

diguéssim el concepte d'una sèrie

let's say the concept of a series

per una cadena americana, una sèrie d'animació

for an American network, an animated series

curta, 15 minuts

short, 15 minutes

d'animació per adults

adult animation

i ens van comprar fer el pilot

And they bought us to become the pilot.

el pilot, estan

the pilot, are

encantats, els hi encanta

delighted, they love it

i el feedback que teníem de la cadena

and the feedback we had from the chain

que, ostres, era molt xulo

Wow, it was really cool!

perquè realment d'aquells feedbacks

because really from those feedbacks

que de sobte dius, t'estan aportant

that suddenly you say, they are bringing you

coses i t'estan dient coses que

things and they are telling you things that

van a favor, que s'ho estan

They are in favor, they are.

mirant amb mimo, que dius que no és aquell

looking with care, you say that it is not that one

típic cliché que de sobte

typical cliché that suddenly

la cadena demana coses estranyes

the chain asks for strange things

i a més, a dir, no, aquest tema millor no el tractem

And furthermore, I mean, no, it's better not to discuss this topic.

perquè la nostra comunitat és més de Nova York

because our community is more from New York

i creiem que això pot molestar

And we believe that this may be upsetting.

i creiem que, mira, si aquesta broma la firmem

And we believe that, look, if we sign this joke.

cap a una altra banda, potser d'això dius, val

to another side, maybe that's what you mean, okay

doncs té sensibilitat a la manera de fer-ho

so it has sensitivity to the way of doing it

val, vinga, i és aquell moment en què

okay, come on, and it's that moment when

diuen que els encanta el projecte

they say they love the project

però que al final la cadena

but in the end the chain

tira cap a una altra banda i que

pulls in another direction and that

aquella hora de la graella on anaven

that time of the grid where they were going

a fer una animació per adults

to make an animation for adults

han decidit posar reposicions

they have decided to put in replacements

perquè els hi surt més barat i a la pandèmia

because it is cheaper for them during the pandemic

afectant i decideixen

affecting and deciding

que d'això, no? Llavors aquest punt

That's right, isn't it? Then this point

de, per una banda, encoratjar-te

to, on one hand, encourage you

de dir, està anant molt bé això, està molt bé

To say, this is going very well, it's very good.

però no, no?

but no, right?

I aquest punt de dir, ostres, no controles

And at this point to say, wow, you don't control.

ni, no, no hauria pogut fer res

neither, no, I couldn't have done anything

per fer-ho diferent segurament

to do it differently surely

i que t'acabessin dient que sí

and that they end up telling you yes

o sí és educat o no

or yes it is polite or not

llavors aquest punt també del que dèiem abans també

then this point also of what we said before also

incerteses, no? És a dir, de sobte tens aquesta frustració

uncertainties, right? I mean, suddenly you have this frustration

de dir, hi ha uns factors externs

to say, there are some external factors

que t'aparten, no? I que

they push you away, don't they? And that

de sobte, doncs, no pots fer aquest projecte

suddenly, then, you can't do this project

que portaves, doncs, anys desenvolupant

what you had been developing for years

I preferiries que t'haguessin dit

I would have preferred that they had told you.

no d'entrada?

no entry?

L'haver rodat un pilot, o sigui

Having shot a pilot, that is to say

el no haver-se quedat en paper només, sinó que hi ha

not having remained just on paper, but that there is

un material que de sobte, doncs

a material that suddenly, then

es pot acabar, no sé,

it can end, I don't know,

reconvertint o reutilitzant més endavant

reconverting or reusing later on

quan hi ha un tema de drets també que

when there is a rights issue also that

pertany a la cadena però després passen quants anys

it belongs to the chain but then how many years pass

i també d'això, doncs, mira, almenys,

and also about that, well, look, at least,

hi ha hagut un resultat visible, no?

There has been a visible result, right?

És a dir, que a vegades la pàgina

That is to say, that sometimes the page

literària del guió, doncs, per molt que

literary script, therefore, no matter how much

li diguem literari, doncs, acaba sent una cosa

we call it literary, then, it ends up being something

que és un manual tan previ

what is such a previous manual

que ja està satisfet però a mitges, no?

that is already half satisfied, isn't it?

Almenys, dius, mira, pots veure

At least, you say, look, you can see.

un fragment d'alguna cosa que vas crear, no?

a fragment of something you created, right?

Però a més això que dius de les circumstàncies externes

But moreover what you say about external circumstances

és una mica com el del bas mig pleu

it's a bit like that of the half-full glass

mig buit perquè és veritat que a vegades

half empty because it is true that sometimes

et juguen a la contra i et passa

they play against you and it happens to you

una situació com la que descrius

a situation like the one you describe

però també és veritat que a vegades és el contrari, no?

but it's also true that sometimes it's the opposite, isn't it?

I hi ha d'haver

And there had to be

justament parlat amb aquella persona

just spoken with that person

en aquell dia, tot és un cúmul

on that day, everything is a heap

d'aquestes realitats que t'afavoreixen, no?

of these realities that benefit you, right?

Llavors, bueno, jo vull creure

So, well, I want to believe.

que més o menys les coses es van

that more or less things are going

equilibrant, no?, en aquest aspecte.

balancing, right?, in this aspect.

Perquè el fracàs és subjectiu?

Why is failure subjective?

Uau. Jo penso que això està relacionat

Wow. I think this is related.

amb el fet que el guió no és un fi en si mateix,

with the fact that the script is not an end in itself,

és el que deia el Víctor, no? El guió al final

It's what Víctor was saying, right? The script in the end.

és un instrument per construir una altra

It is a tool to build another.

cosa, que és una pel·lícula,

thing, which is a movie,

llavors és veritat que a vegades quedar-se

then it's true that sometimes staying

en aquest pas intermig, encara que a nivell

at this intermediate step, even though at a level

personal pugui tenir part

personal may have a part

de realització, de viatge, de creixement,

of achievement, of travel, of growth,

no sé si ho heu viscut així, però

I don't know if you have experienced it this way, but

que un projecte no avanci fins

that a project does not progress until

a la fase següent, tampoc permet

in the next phase, it also does not allow

que el guió hagi arribat a la seva

that the script has reached its

forma final, no?, d'alguna manera. Llavors

final form, right?, in a way. Then

a mi em costa veure els projectes de guió,

I find it hard to see the script projects.

encara que estiguin desenvolupats i ben desenvolupats,

even if they are developed and well developed,

en si mateixos com a

in themselves as

obres acabades, no? Penso que és diferent de la novel·la

Finished works, right? I think it's different from the novel.

de la qual parlava en Pau, perquè la novel·la

of which Pau was speaking, because the novel

està escrita, no? Vull dir, com, en canvi

it's written, right? I mean, how, on the contrary

un guió es queda en un purgatori

a script remains in purgatory

intermig, no? No sé si ho viviu així.

Intermediate, right? I don't know if you live it that way.

I també que potser amb el que deies de la novel·la,

And also that maybe with what you said about the novel,

no? Hi ha una part que

no? There is a part that

per fer un audiovisual gairebé

to make an audiovisual almost

sempre necessites més gent, no? En canvi, per una novel·la

You always need more people, right? On the other hand, for a novel.

podries decidir autoeditar-la,

you could decide to self-publish it,

penjar-la a algun lloc i ja està, no? En canvi

hang it somewhere and that's it, right? On the other hand

un guió és veritat que també el podries editar

A script is true that you could also edit it.

i penjar-lo, però sí que és una cosa més

And hang it, but it is indeed something more.

que necessites alguna validació

that you need some validation

més, no?, de acabar de trobar la manera

more, right?, of just having found the way

de... El que passa és que

from... What happens is that

jo entenc el que dius i estic d'acord,

I understand what you're saying and I agree.

no?, que tu pots tenir diferents graus d'expectativa

No? That you can have different levels of expectation?

i la teva expectativa

and your expectation

pot ser que allò es produeixi

It may be that it occurs.

en molt bones condicions i, vaja,

in very good condition and, well,

passi molt bé o pot ser senzillament que tu

"Have a great time or it could simply be that you."

acompleixis el teu...

fulfill your...

bueno, les teves ambicions creatives, no?

Well, your creative ambitions, right?

I el que no crec

And what I don't believe

que puguis fer o que existeixi

that you can do or that exists

és emprendre un projecte sense

it is undertaking a project without

cert grau d'expectatives, no?

certain degree of expectations, right?

Evidentment, com dic,

Obviously, as I said,

poden ser expectatives molt diferents, però quan

they can be very different expectations, but when

t'hi poses amb alguna cosa és perquè tens una il·lusió,

you get involved with something because you have a dream,

no? I, per tant,

no? And, therefore,

i l'has de tenir perquè, si no, probablement no tindries

and you have to have it because, if not, you probably wouldn't have it.

la força i l'energia, no?,

the strength and the energy, right?

de llançar-t'hi i, en aquest sentit,

to dive in and, in this sense,

sempre hi ha, per dir-ho així, la possibilitat

there is always, so to speak, the possibility

que no es compleixi aquesta il·lusió

that this illusion does not come true

que tens, no?, a l'inici.

What you have, right?, at the beginning.

La trama. Un podcast amb poc guió.

The plot. A podcast with little script.

Jo m'he presentat a

I have applied to

convocatòries amb diversos

calls with various

projectes i amb alguns que dius

projects and with some that you say

puf, això

phew, this

no arribarà enlloc i pam.

it won't get anywhere and bam.

Arriba amb aquell que no...

Arrives with the one who doesn't...

Has anat més relaxadament, amb el que has posat

You have gone more calmly, with what you have put on.

menys expectatives, òbviament, cert grau

less expectations, obviously, a certain degree

d'expectatives les tens, no?, però

You have expectations, right?, but

que, al final, també hi ha

that, in the end, there is also

alguna cosa de la qual la vida et va

something from which life takes you

portant, no?, i, al final, està

important, right?, and in the end, it is

controlant, no?, a on

controlling, right?, to where

arribaré i on... Òbviament,

I will arrive and where... Obviously,

quedar-se a nivell guió

stay at the script level

pots una mena de fracàs,

you can have a kind of failure,

però és veritat que,

but it is true that,

com dèieu, hi ha un tema del procés,

as you said, there is a theme of the process,

no?, i que hi ha coses que queden fora del teu abast,

no?, and there are things that are beyond your reach,

no?, i jo crec que també hi ha una qüestió de

no?, and I think there is also a matter of

les expectatives que un té en relació

the expectations one has in relation

a un mateix, no?, i el que...

to oneself, right?, and what...

I fins a on pot arribar? Hi ha parts

And how far can it go? There are parts.

que ja no pots arribar, no?, és a dir, ja et quedes

that you can’t make it anymore, right? I mean, you’re staying now.

al final del camí i esperes

at the end of the road and you wait

que altres t'agafin aquest guió i te'ls rodin, no?,

let others take this script and film it for you, right?

i això ja...

and that already...

És un altre tema. I per mi és

It's another topic. And for me, it's

molt clar, una altra qüestió relacionada

very clear, another related issue

amb això és que, moltes vegades,

with this is that, many times,

en un cert temps, te n'adones

at a certain time, you realize

que han

what have

passat coses que potser no eren exactament

things that perhaps were not exactly

les que tu esperaves que passessin, però que han

those that you expected to happen, but that have

passat, i que, en alguns casos,

past, and that, in some cases,

no són tan positives, però en molts casos

they are not that positive, but in many cases

són molt positives. Jo,

they are very positive. I,

per mi, és indubtable que cada

for me, it is undoubtedly that each

procés d'escriptura

writing process

me'l miro així, des

I look at it like this, from

de la distància, i veig...

from the distance, and I see...

puc identificar unes quantes coses

I can identify a few things.

bastant concretes que he

quite concrete that I have

après en aquell procés,

after in that process,

no?, en alguns aspectes.

No, in some aspects.

I és claríssim,

And it is very clear,

això, no? I llavors jo penso que,

this, right? And then I think that,

per exemple, en aquest element de l'aprenentatge

for example, in this element of learning

personal i una certa millora, diguéssim,

personal and a certain improvement, let's say,

de les teves capacitats

of your abilities

o habilitats en l'ofici,

or skills in the trade,

sempre es dona, no?,

It always happens, right?

quan fas un projecte, i, per tant,

when you undertake a project, and, therefore,

potser no ha arribat,

perhaps it hasn’t arrived,

diguéssim, en el lloc on tu voldries

let's say, in the place where you would like

anar mirat des d'un altre punt de vista,

looked at from another point of view,

però jo crec

but I believe

molt en aquest consell que

a lot in this advice that

realment aprens, o sigui,

do you really learn, or rather,

acabar fins a un cert punt,

to end up to a certain point,

no?, les coses

no?, the things

que aprens

what you learn

realment fa que siguin molt

it really makes them very

més educatives, no?, o que

more educational, right?, or what

t'ajudin molt més a després fer-les

they help you a lot more to do them later

millor. I, en aquest sentit, sí que

better. And, in this sense, yes,

penso que jo em sento

I think that I feel

molt frustrat quan una idea

very frustrated when an idea

que tinc realment la deixo com molt a mitges

that I really leave it very half-done

sense

sense

haver arribat a un punt de complació que a mi

to have reached a point of complacency that for me

em sembla suficient, per dir-ho d'alguna manera, no?

It seems enough to me, so to speak, doesn’t it?

Una mica amb el que deies, és a dir, acabar un guió

A bit with what you said, that is to say, to finish a script.

no és un fracàs. O sigui, si arribes una mica fins al

it's not a failure. I mean, if you get a little bit to the

final, si fas un tractament que

finally, if you undergo a treatment that

ja et sembla correcte, si fas

It seems correct to you, if you do.

una passada de guió ja sencera,

a complete script already done,

crec que ja hi ha un punt d'això que deies,

I think there is already a point to what you were saying.

de marcar-te un objectiu que almenys has

of setting a goal that you at least have

arribat a una fita. Potser les teves expectatives

reached a milestone. Perhaps your expectations

anaven cap a un altre lloc, o aquest projecte,

they were heading somewhere else, or this project,

doncs es queda un calaix. Però sí que jo crec que

so it ends up being a drawer. But I do think that

mai podem considerar un fracàs

never can we consider a failure

fer aquesta carrera, no?

to take this course, right?

Jo crec que sí que hi ha un punt de dir, almenys has arribat

I believe that there is a point in saying, at least you have arrived.

a un lloc i l'has completat, no?

to a place and you have completed it, right?

Hi ha una part de tancament

There is a part of closure.

que crec que és important per

that I think is important for

això, per justificar també les hores, la dedicació,

this, to also justify the hours, the dedication,

l'empenta,

the push,

l'emoció volcada allà, la intuïció

the emotion poured there, the intuition

de per què vols explicar aquesta història,

why you want to tell this story,

una mica, sí que crec que almenys tancar

A little, yes, I think that at least closing.

una etapa que

a stage that

val la pena. En relació

it's worth it. In relation

amb aquesta valoració de la qual estem

with this assessment of which we are

parlant constantment de si allò que

constantly talking about whether that

estem fent està bé o no, si té

We are doing well or not, if it has.

una valoració externa també que es correspon

an external assessment that corresponds

amb el que nosaltres pensem, volia preguntar-vos

With what we think, I wanted to ask you.

per aquestes senyals

for these signs

quan ens indiquen que un projecte

when they indicate to us that a project

no funciona. I si a vegades

it doesn't work. And sometimes it does.

els hi hem de fer cas, també, no? I si a vegades

We have to listen to them too, right? And sometimes if...

fins i tot aquestes senyals es poden estendre a

even these signals can be extended to

qüestions com, potser no m'hauria de dedicar

questions like, maybe I shouldn't dedicate myself

al guió, potser hauria de dedicar la meva vida

to the script, perhaps I should dedicate my life

a una altra professió, hauria de pivotar,

to another profession, I would have to pivot,

hauria d'explorar altres coses.

I should explore other things.

Què en penseu? Com us relacioneu

What do you think about it? How do you relate to it?

amb aquests nos i com

with these noes and how

proveixen en decidir que potser

they provide in deciding that perhaps

un projecte, encara que jo estava molt convençut

a project, although I was very convinced

o convençuda, no val la pena?

or convinced, is it not worth it?

A mi en aquesta línia del que deia abans

For me, in this line of what I was saying before.

la Laia, que em fa molta gràcia, de dir

Laia, who makes me laugh a lot, to say.

presento diverses coses a una convocatòria i el projecte

I present various things at a call and the project.

amb el qual potser tenia menys

with which perhaps I had less

estima o menys dedicació i tal

love or less dedication and such

és el que m'escollen. I de sobte he de tirar

it's what they choose for me. And suddenly I have to go.

d'un fil de que potser m'anava bé.

of a thread that perhaps suited me well.

Preferiria estar fent uns altres.

I would prefer to be doing something else.

Això m'ha passat diverses vegades de dir, ostres,

This has happened to me several times to say, wow,

tens diverses idees

you have several ideas

al cap i dius, la que més m'agrada

in the end and you say, the one I like the most

és aquesta, i de sobte ets

it's this one, and suddenly you are

seleccionant amb una altra i dius, ai...

selecting with another and you say, oh...

Què ha passat?

What happened?

Exacte, però m'agrada més l'altra.

Exactly, but I prefer the other one.

Però això

But this

em passa en

it happens to me in

alguns moments d'això, de saber

some moments of this, of knowing

triar en quin li vols dedicar més

choose which one you want to dedicate yourself to more

esforç, perquè és això, vas acumulant alguns projectes

effort, because that's what it is, you accumulate some projects

que jo també una part és

that I am also a part is

m'enamoro molt de certes

I fall in love a lot with certain ones.

premisses o d'això i em costa

premises or this and it costs me

a vegades arribar fins al final

sometimes reaching the end

de dir, vinga, aquest és el projecte al qual

to say, come on, this is the project to which

li dedico més hores i anem

I dedicate more hours to it and let's go.

a buscar aquesta fita final.

to seek this final milestone.

Doncs a vegades és veritat que

Well, sometimes it's true that

t'apareix alguna altra cosa nova, és allò com quan estàs

Does something new appear to you, it's like when you're

llegint un llibre, hi ha un moment de desenamorament

reading a book, there comes a moment of falling out of love

i de sobte arriba aquella novetat al costat

And suddenly that news arrives next to.

i dius, si començo l'altre, una mica

And you say, if I start the other one, a little.

en paral·lel, i de sobte

in parallel, and suddenly

quan l'enamorament es gira cap a l'altra posició

when falling in love turns to the other position

dius, no, ja estic perdent aquest fil

You say, no, I'm already losing this thread.

i no sé si acabaré tornant. Doncs això

And I don’t know if I will end up coming back. So that’s it.

a vegades passa

sometimes it happens

en aquest dilema de triar.

in this dilemma of choosing.

Sí, jo en el meu cas, jo crec

Yes, in my case, I believe.

que cada dia

that every day

en algun moment del dia penso

at some point during the day I think

jo no tinc talent,

I don't have talent,

he de tirar pel pla B, no? I sempre hi ha

I have to go for plan B, right? And there's always...

el pla B.

the plan B.

El tens molt estipulat, el pla B?

Do you have the plan B very well established?

Jo el tinc claríssim. El tens claríssim? Tinc claríssim.

I have it very clear. Do you have it very clear? I have it very clear.

No teniu pla B, vosaltres? Jo tinc B, C, D,

Don't you have a plan B? I have B, C, D.

E, F, G, he tingut la massa d'A i G.

E, F, G, I have had the mass of A and G.

Però un B, però diguéssim

But a B, but let's say

allò de canvi de vida radical

that of a radical life change

i una parada al mercat.

and a stop at the market.

Però claríssim.

But very clear.

De què, de què, la parada, aviam?

What about, what about, the stop, let's see?

Si pot ser... Llions, llibres, llibres...

If possible... Lions, books, books...

No, una xarcuteria

No, a delicatessen.

o carnisseria. Home, doncs segurament

or butcher's. Man, so probably

ara, amb les dates que estem ara,

now, with the dates we are at now,

segur que aniria bastant millor realment

I'm sure it would really go quite better.

que l'última. Segurament

that the last one. Probably

el fracàs no el tindria,

the failure would not have it,

no tindria tant aquesta sensació de fracassada

I wouldn't have such a feeling of failure.

que a vegades hi ha un microsegó

that sometimes there is a microsecond

en el dia que el tens allà en plan

on the day you have it there in plan

que també el síndrome de l'impostor

that also the impostor syndrome

i aquestes coses que es parlen últimament, no?

And these things that have been talked about recently, right?

Per mi és un gran dilema, sempre,

For me, it is a great dilemma, always.

perquè tens d'una banda

because you have on one side

aquesta sensació de dir això que estava

this feeling of saying what was

dient abans, no?, portar les coses

saying before, right?, to take things

fins a un punt, com a mínim

up to a point, at least

final, diguéssim,

finally, let's say,

acabar processos,

conclude processes,

però és veritat que durant els processos

but it is true that during the processes

moltes vegades tens la sensació

many times you have the feeling

que en voldries iniciar d'altres

that you would like to start others

o que realment potser allò no està anant

or that perhaps that is not really going well

pel camí adequat, no? I sobretot

on the right path, right? And above all

jo em debato molt entre aquest

I struggle a lot between this

dilema entre treballar de manera

dilemma between working in a way

més o menys ordenada o

more or less organized or

d'alguna manera deixar-se

somehow let oneself go

anar a un funcionament una miqueta

go to a slightly different function

més caòtic, que

more chaotic than

moltes vegades et

many times you

proporciona moments

provides moments

en què tot s'interconnecta

in which everything is interconnected

i són com moments de gran

and they are like moments of great

en els que ho veus tot molt

in which you see everything very

clar, però és veritat que, clar,

of course, but it is true that, of course,

amb aquest sistema és difícil

with this system it is difficult

poder ordenar les coses i arribar a completar

to be able to organize things and reach completion

els processos i, per tant, mai

the processes and, therefore, never

acabes de... Bé, jo sempre

you just... Well, I always

tinc un peu a cada banda i no sé

I have a foot on each side and I don't know.

mai si deixar-me anar més cap

never let me go more towards

a un costat o cap a l'altre.

to one side or the other.

I en aquest sentit que deies de...

And in this sense that you were saying about...

Jo com que estic vivint un pla B, en el fons,

Since I am living a plan B, deep down,

des de fa molts anys, i l'escriptura

for many years, and the writing

és un pla C,

it's a plan C,

és el A inicial, però que està

It is the initial A, but it is.

amagat i soterrat

hidden and buried

en altres projectes,

in other projects,

sí que em va xocar molt

It did shock me a lot.

l'altre dia d'això, no?

The other day about that, right?

Quan detectes, no?

When you detect, right?

Si potser hauries de deixar

If perhaps you should let go.

passar el món de l'escriptura, perquè tots sabem

to pass the world of writing, because we all know

que és un desafiament també a l'hora

that is also a challenge at the same time

de vocació, no té

by vocation, it does not have

un circuit tan clar

a circuit so clear

i tan meridià com una xarcuteria, que saps que et pots

And as straightforward as a butcher shop, you know you can...

sortir bé, mitjanament bé o

to turn out well, fairly well or

irregular, però que les normes i els codis

irregular, but that the norms and the codes

estan allà posats i, més o menys,

they are there placed and, more or less,

tens un capi traçat. El tema d'escriure,

you have a defined chapter. The theme of writing,

doncs, depèn molt més d'altres

well, it depends much more on others

factors externs que no,

external factors that do not,

que és més complicat, no? I l'altre dia

what is more complicated, isn't it? And the other day

m'explicaven que, ostres,

they were telling me that, wow,

en una

in a

residència se li va recomanar

residence was recommended to him/her

a una persona si havia

to a person if there had been

considerat que, en comptes d'escriure,

considering that, instead of writing,

s'havia plantejat fer-se youtuber

he had considered becoming a YouTuber

o sticktoker, i

Oh, sticktoker, me.

dius, hòstia, et diuen

You say, damn, they tell you.

aquesta recomanació vital

this vital recommendation

i, no sé...

I don't know...

No li van recomanar posar-se a fer botifarres negres

They didn't recommend him to start making black puddings.

i bulls blancs,

and white bulls,

potser la Laia hagués dit, doncs,

perhaps Laia would have said, then,

ho encarem amb il·lusió.

We face it with excitement.

Jo crec que hi ha gent que ha d'aprendre a mossegar-se la llengua

I think there are people who need to learn to bite their tongue.

en els seus moments, és a dir, tornem al davant,

at its moments, that is, let's go back to the front,

el que dèiem abans, no? És a dir,

what we were saying before, right? That is,

penso que hi ha gent que ha de dir, no,

I think there are people who have to say no.

però ja no anar més enllà,

but no to go any further,

és a dir, una cosa és que et faci una crítica

That is to say, one thing is for me to critique you.

constructiva i l'altra és

constructive and the other is

que et faci una suggerència de forma de vida,

to make a suggestion for a way of life,

és a dir, aquí ja estàs creuant uns límits

That is to say, here you are already crossing some boundaries.

vermells que jo crec que ja no, no, no,

reds that I think no longer, no, no,

no, no...

no, no...

I està fregant el mal gust,

It's bordering on bad taste.

penso, no? S'ha de tenir respecte.

I think so, right? One must have respect.

Jo estic d'acord, però per fer

I agree, but to do.

d'advocat del diable, penso

of the devil's advocate, I think

també que és

also what it is

interessant estar atents i atentes

interesting to pay attention

a aquestes veus que

to these voices that

a vegades ens diuen i ens parlen

sometimes they tell us and talk to us

que potser hem d'explorar altres coses, perquè

that maybe we need to explore other things, because

crec que ens castiguem molt i estem

I think we punish ourselves a lot and we are

disposades i disposats a patir

willing to suffer

molt per tal de perseguir una cosa

a lot in order to pursue something

que a vegades no és l'única que ens faria feliços

that sometimes it is not the only thing that would make us happy

o felices, no? En aquesta línia del llibre

or happy, right? In this line of the book

de l'entusiasmo de Remedio Estafra,

from the enthusiasm of Remedio Estafra,

que per aquest entusiasme,

that for this enthusiasm,

per aquesta il·lusió que ens fa perseguir

for this illusion that makes us pursue

un somni que hem tingut, que potser

a dream we had, that perhaps

no és l'únic que tenim, estem

it's not the only thing we have, we are

disposats pel camí

disposed along the way

a patir moltíssim, no? I a vegades no és

to suffer a lot, right? And sometimes it is not

necessari patir tant, no? I a vegades

it's necessary to suffer so much, isn't it? And sometimes

ens podem obrir altres coses. Jo, per exemple,

we can open up other things. I, for example,

ho vaig viure amb la docència, que inicialment

I lived it with teaching, which initially

tenia un prejudici molt fort. No vull

I had a very strong prejudice. I don't want to.

deixar d'escriure per fer classes

stop writing to have classes

cada minut que perdo,

every minute I waste,

deixar d'escriure per estar amb els i les alumnes

stop writing to be with the students

i després, en realitat, ha estat una experiència

and then, in reality, it has been an experience

que per mi és molt més enriquidora,

which for me is much more enriching,

em fa molt millor guionista, ser

It makes me a much better screenwriter, to be.

professor, no? És que jo

Professor, right? It's just that I...

aquí trobo que, precisament, l'escriptura

here I find that, precisely, writing

té l'avantatge que és una activitat que

has the advantage that it is an activity that

es nodreix de qualsevol cosa que tu facis

it feeds on anything you do

a la vida, no? I en aquest sentit, la gent que ja

to life, right? And in this sense, the people who already

tenim una tendència natural a una certa

we have a natural tendency towards a certain

dispersió, a que ens agradi

dispersion, so that we like it

fer bastantes coses diferents,

do quite a few different things,

bueno, és veritat que això, per una

Well, it's true that this, for one

banda, a vegades complica justament

band, sometimes complicates just.

això, no?, aquesta feina més

this, right?, this task more

ordenada, però, en canvi,

ordered, but, on the other hand,

és molt útil, també,

it is very useful, too,

per escriure, no? I això que tu dius

to write, right? And what you say

d'explorar, també, altres

to explore, also, others

activitats, jo crec que la manera

activities, I believe that the way

de fer això no és tan

doing this is not that

plantejar-te que faràs altres coses, sinó

to consider that you will do other things, otherwise

realment fer-les, no?, i

really do them, right?, and

adonar-te, com et va

realize it, how is it going for you

passar a tu, que, de sobte, fer classes, doncs,

pass to you, who, suddenly, teach classes, well,

és una cosa que t'apassiona, no?

It's something that you're passionate about, isn't it?

Això et pot passar en moltes

This can happen to you in many ways.

activitats i no implica necessàriament

activities and does not necessarily imply

un abandon de

an abandonment of

l'escriptura, sinó molt probablement

the writing, but very probably

una millora, perquè tu

an improvement, because of you

aprens, o sigui,

you learn, that is,

l'alimentes, no?, l'escriptura

You feed it, right? The writing.

coneixent altres mons i fent altres

knowing other worlds and creating others

activitats, i, en un moment donat, si l'abandones,

activities, and, at a given moment, if you abandon it,

doncs, probablement ho faràs

well, you'll probably do it

amb plaer, no? Llavors,

with pleasure, right? Then,

jo sí que penso que, en realitat,

I do think that, in reality,

no hem de perdre mai

we must never lose

una mica el plaer que sentim

a little of the pleasure that we feel

fent una cosa, és un indicador important,

doing something, it is an important indicator,

i, per tant, quan una cosa la fem

And therefore, when we do something

ja amb molt de

already with a lot of

malestar, només perquè

discomfort, just because

creiem que ens hem d'esforçar molt per

we believe that we must strive hard to

arribar a aconseguir tal objectiu,

to achieve such an objective,

és perillós. Probablement hi ha

It is dangerous. There is probably

alguna cosa que no està funcionant allà i que

something that is not working there and that

hauríem d'explorar-la, no?

We should explore it, right?

Sí, fins i tot allò que es diu

Yes, even what is said.

de si vols, pots, no? Això és

If you want, you can, right? This is it.

perillós, també, és perillós,

dangerous, also, it is dangerous,

però jo crec que, també,

but I believe that, too,

la idea de fracàs va molt lligat

the idea of failure is closely linked

a un mateix, però també

to oneself, but also

a l'opinió dels altres, estem molt exposats

in the opinion of others, we are very exposed

a l'opinió dels altres, als guionistes,

to the opinion of others, to the screenwriters,

no?, i més que

no?, and more than

més crec que a les xercuteres

more I believe that to the xercuteres

i els xercuters, és a dir, que en aquest sentit

and the xercuters, that is to say, in this sense

vull dir, bueno, segurament

I mean, well, probably.

si m'escolto...

if I listen to myself...

Bueno, això també és veritat, no em fico en aquest

Well, that is also true, I won't get into this.

merder, no m'hi fico ara, però

mess, I'm not getting into that now, but

és a dir, que en el moment en què

that is to say, at the moment when

estem molt exposats, jo crec que

we are very exposed, I think that

nosaltres també hem de saber entomar,

we also have to know how to cope,

de la mateixa manera que nosaltres hem de

in the same way that we have to

saber entomar les crítiques dels

knowing how to take criticism from the

altres i poder distanciar-nos

others and be able to distance ourselves

i gestionar-ho

and manage it

de manera que no sigui un fracàs,

so that it is not a failure,

també, per l'altra banda, i una mica

also, on the other hand, and a little bit

en relació al que explicava el Víctor Sala,

in relation to what Víctor Sala was explaining,

doncs, la persona

well, the person

que està fent un anàlisi, sigui pagat,

that is doing an analysis, whether paid,

no pagat, per totes les residències,

not paid, for all the residences,

el que sigui, és a dir,

whatever it is, that is,

qui emet aquest judici

who issues this judgment

ha de ser conscient del que està dient,

he must be aware of what he is saying,

no? I crec que hi ha de ser

No? I think there has to be.

conscient que el que pot estar dient

aware of what it may be saying

o pot estar dient a una persona

or could be saying to a person

que li rep en pinfle

that catches him in a bind

o pot estar dient a algú que pot

or it could be telling someone that they can

condicionar el seu futur més immediat

condition his/her most immediate future

perquè el pot enfonsar a la misèria i fer-lo canviar.

because it can plunge him into misery and make him change.

Que, òbviament, és una decisió de la persona

That, obviously, is a decision of the person.

en si mateixa, però també hem de ser

in itself, but we also have to be

conscients, no? I penso que

aware, right? I think that

és un món difícil

it's a difficult world

i és un món que hem de saber

and it is a world that we must understand

també enfocar les crítiques,

also focusing on the critiques,

no? I cap aquí ho enviem, no?

Don't we send it here, right?

L'empatia, per favor, l'empatia.

Empathy, please, empathy.

Per anar tancant, també, estem parlant

To conclude, we are also talking.

molt del que es considera

much of what is considered

una mica fracàs, no?

a little bit of a failure, isn’t it?

Però potser també és interessant a vegades

But maybe it is also interesting sometimes.

avaluar fins a quin punt l'èxit

assess to what extent success

és un èxit en si mateix o a vegades

It is a success in itself or sometimes.

també s'ha de posar una mica

you also have to put in a little bit

entre cometes i com gestionar-lo,

"between quotes and how to manage it,"

no? Perquè

No? Why?

hi ha aquest punt que

there is this point that

moltes vegades la imatge de l'èxit sí que

Many times the image of success does indeed

potser la tenim molt clara, però no

maybe we have it very clear, but not

és tan clar que realment

it's so clear that really

això estigui convertint en una cosa que

this is becoming something that

superi totes les coses

overcome all things

dolentes que pot tenir darrere, no?

bad things that can happen behind, right?

Són dos cares d'una mateixa moneda, no?

They are two sides of the same coin, aren't they?

I de la mateixa manera que a vegades tenim

And in the same way that sometimes we have

malentès què és el fracàs, a vegades també podem

misunderstood what failure is, sometimes we can too

tenir malentès el que és l'èxit i

misunderstanding what success is and

aquests malentesos es retroalimenten

these misunderstandings feed back into each other

l'un a l'altre, no? A mi m'agrada

Each other, right? I like it.

el títol d'aquella

the title of that

novel·la, també Néstor

novel, also Néstor

passarà, no? De la Milena Busquets.

It will happen, right? By Milena Busquets.

Que trobo

What do I find?

que és una bona màxima per anar

what is a good saying to go by

pel món, no? Perquè sí,

For the world, right? Because yes,

tot passa, no? El bo

Everything passes, right? The good.

i el dolent i al final,

and the bad guy in the end,

no vol dir que no t'hagis d'entregar a cada

it doesn't mean that you shouldn't commit to each.

una d'aquestes

one of these

emocions, per dir-ho així, però

emotions, so to speak, but

sí que un punt de distància

yes, a point of distance

és important i sobretot en un món

it is important and especially in a world

tan, ostres, on

so, oysters, where

se li dona potser també aquest

perhaps this is also given to him

sobretot en un entorn com el

especially in an environment like the

nostre on tan

our where so

instagramic i tan d'alguna manera

instagrammable and in some way

no? És que en aquesta línia que

No? It's just that in this line that

dius, no? Hi ha moltes coses a dir, èxit,

You say, right? There are many things to say, success,

èxit què és? Anar a un tal festival

Success, what is it? Going to such a festival.

que no et paguen el viatge,

that they don't pay you for the trip,

que molt bé és, molt bé

how good it is, very good

completa l'esquena, però que sí que hi ha aquest punt

completes the back, but there is indeed this point.

que la pel·lícula potser està perdent

that the movie may be losing

diners i per una cosa que socialment

money and for something that socially

acceptem com a èxit, igualment

we accept it as a success, likewise

potser està sent una llosa

perhaps it is being a burden

que et costarà més fer la següent

what will cost you more is doing the following

o no sé, també hi ha moltes coses

Oh I don't know, there are also many things.

que a vegades la imatge que tenim

that sometimes the image we have

associada d'èxit

successful partner

no és tal cosa.

it's not such a thing.

Bueno, i que també el procés d'escriptura

Well, and that the writing process too

és un procés llarg, és feixuc,

it's a long process, it's burdensome,

hi ha molts alts i baixos i

there are many ups and downs and

quan es poden celebrar coses, de seguida

"When things can be celebrated, right away."

les volem celebrar, no? Al final,

we want to celebrate them, right? In the end,

és una mica també per compensar

it's also a bit to compensate

el procés, no? Però potser

the process, right? But perhaps

si s'equilibra, no?, trobar l'equilibri

if it balances, right?, finding the balance

entre el que se celebra, però també

between what is celebrated, but also

acceptar que hi ha coses que potser

accept that there are things that perhaps

durant el procés no aniran tan bé, no?, i anar

During the process, it won't go so well, will it? And go.

més cautelosos,

more cautious,

no?, en tot el procés, tant en

no?, in the whole process, both in

les coses bones com en les coses dolentes.

the good things like in the bad things.

Tant l'èxit com el fracàs potser tenen

Both success and failure may have

a veure amb dos dels eixos que hem estat

let's see with two of the axes we have been

comentant al lloc d'aquesta conversa,

commenting in place of this conversation,

que són, d'una banda, la percepció pública,

that are, on the one hand, public perception,

com depenem molt de com som

how much we depend on who we are

llegits i llegides,

readers

com l'altre eix que seria

like the other axis which would be

el d'internament les nostres expectatives

the internment our expectations

de què parlava la Laia al principi, no?

What was Laia talking about at the beginning, right?

En el fons, l'èxit i el fracàs tenen

In the end, success and failure have

molt a veure amb aquests factors que són

has a lot to do with these factors that are

subjectius completament, no? Sí, i jo

completely subjective, right? Yes, and me.

justament, en aquesta dimensió més

just at this dimension more

íntima, diguéssim, jo trobo que hi ha

intimate, let's say, I find that there is

una experiència de fracàs

a failure experience

molt quotidiana, com a mínim a mi

very everyday, at least for me

em passa molt sovint, que és això de tenir

It happens to me very often, what is this about having?

una idea, un concepte que et ve a la

an idea, a concept that comes to you

ment i et sembla que serà meravellós, i en

while it seems to you that it will be wonderful, and in

el moment en què realment el comences

the moment when you really start it

a intentar concretar i baixar

to try to specify and lower

l'ú a termes molt més ja

the one at much more terms already

sobre el paper, mai és

about the paper, it never is

tan meravellós, no? I això és una sensació

so wonderful, isn't it? And this is a feeling

que sovint

that often

a la que sovint t'has d'enfrontar, i

that you often have to face, and

al revés, per mi hi ha una sensació d'èxit

On the contrary, for me there is a feeling of success.

íntim, personal,

intimate, personal

que a la que afortunadament també

that fortunately also

mi trobo sovint, que és

I often find myself, that is

quan realment estàs,

when you are really,

quan entres, no? I estàs en

when you enter, right? And you're in

aquest punt del flow, li diuen alguns

this point of the flow, some call it

o no sé què, no? Que et passen un parell o tres

or I don’t know what, right? That they give you a couple or three.

d'hores, i has estat molt, molt,

of hours, and you have been very, very,

molt concentrat, i has realment

very concentrated, and you really have

fet encaixar peces molt

made pieces fit very much

variades, i la veritat és que la

varied, and the truth is that the

sensació una mica, diguéssim, de

a bit of a feeling, let's say, of

plenitud, no?, que aconsegueixes en aquests

fullness, right?, that you achieve in these

moments, que a vegades és una cosa que

moments, that sometimes it is something that

pots aconseguir, no sé, una estona

can you get, I don't know, a moment

cada dia, no?, si passes una bona

Every day, right? If you have a good one.

ratxa, home, jo no sé si

streak, man, I don't know if

això ho canviaria per moltes

I would change this for many.

fotos d'Instagram i moltes

Instagram photos and many.

copes d'acabar, no sé quina

cups to finish, I don't know which one

networking event, eh?, la veritat.

networking event, huh?, the truth.

Totalment, doncs

Totally, then.

l'episodi d'avui tanquem temporada,

In today's episode, we conclude the season.

fins aquí 24 episodis,

up to here 24 episodes,

de la trama, doncs, d'aquesta segona temporada

of the plot, therefore, of this second season

tan ben acompanyats que

so well accompanied that

hem estat, i ens hem posat una mica

We have been, and we have gotten a bit.

reflexius, ens hem posat una mica, és a dir,

reflective, we have put ourselves a bit, that is to say,

introspectius i també relacionals

introspective and also relational

amb el nostre entorn i amb nosaltres mateixos

with our environment and with ourselves

la percepció que tenim del que

the perception we have of what

vol dir aquests conceptes tan grossos, no?, d'èxit,

it means these big concepts, right?, of success,

de fracàs, de tantes

of failure, of so many

coses. Moltes gràcies a tots els que ens escolteu,

things. Thank you very much to all of you who listen to us,

ens seguiu i ens recomaneu a la

you follow us and recommend us to the

trama, aquí tanquem aquesta temporada

plot, here we close this season

però teniu els altres episodis a

but you have the other episodes on

totes les plataformes disponibles, Spotify,

all available platforms, Spotify,

iVoox, Apple, on vulgueu trobar-ho,

iVoox, Apple, wherever you want to find it,

també al web trama.cat podeu trobar més informació

You can also find more information on the website trama.cat.

sobre el programa,

about the program,

i res més. Bona entrada d'any,

and nothing more. Happy New Year,

bons reis,

good kings,

vigileu els empatxos, no?, ens adonem.

watch out for the indigestion, right? we realize.

A cuesta d'enero.

At the expense of January.

Doncs, moltes gràcies

Well, thank you very much.

Víctor Alonso Verbel,

Víctor Alonso Verbel

Laia Soler Aragonès, Pau Subirós,

Laia Soler Aragonès, Pau Subirós,

per aquesta temporada tan

for this season so

xulíssima que hem tingut, així que fins la propera.

It was awesome that we had, so see you next time.

Bona escriptura. I bona...

Good writing. And good...

Res. Escriptura.

Res. Writing.

Adéu-siau.

Goodbye.

La trama compta amb el suport

The plot has the support

de l'Institut Català de les Empreses Culturals

from the Catalan Institute of Cultural Enterprises

i del màster en Escriptura de Guió

and of the Master's in Screenwriting

Audiovisual de la Universitat de Barcelona

Audiovisual of the University of Barcelona

i la Universitat de Lleida.

and the University of Lleida.

És una producció de Serializados.

It is a production of Serializados.

La fem al guió

We do it in the script.

Víctor Alonso Verbel, Víctor Sala,

Víctor Alonso Verbel, Víctor Sala,

Pau Subirós i Laia Soler Aragonès.

Pau Subirós and Laia Soler Aragonès.

A l'edició Alberto Laia

To the edition Alberto Laia

i a la producció Alba Pasqual.

and in production Alba Pasqual.