#5 Comunitat
Retrats Intermitents
Retrats Intermitents
#5 Comunitat
Retrats intermitents, un podcast al voltant de la representació
Intermittent portraits, a podcast about representation
i l'LGBTQA+, els mitjans audiovisuals.
and the LGBTQIA+, the audiovisual media.
Hola a totis i benvingudis a Retrats intermitents,
Hello everyone and welcome to Intermittent Portraits,
un podcast al voltant de la representació LGTBIQ+, els mitjans audiovisuals.
a podcast about LGTBIQ+ representation in audiovisual media.
Soc la Marta Vivet i avui parlarem de la comunitat.
I am Marta Vivet and today we will talk about the community.
És molt habitual fer servir la construcció comunitat LGTBIQ+,
It is very common to use the construction LGTBIQ+ community.
però què volem dir realment amb la paraula comunitat?
But what do we really mean by the word community?
La comunitat és un grup, un vincle,
The community is a group, a bond,
però on establim les fronteres?
But where do we establish the borders?
La comunitat com a tal pot abastar a totes les persones del col·lectiu LGTBIQ+,
The community as such can encompass all people from the LGTBIQ+ collective.
amb qui podem tenir molt poc a veure,
with whom we may have very little to do,
però també pot ser una microcomunitat que hem creat al nostre voltant
but it can also be a microcommunity that we have created around us
on sentir-nos segurs.
to feel safe.
Sigui com sigui, el que és segur és que comunitat es contraposa a la solitud i a l'aïllament,
In any case, what is certain is that community contrasts with solitude and isolation.
dues experiències malauradament molt comunes i conegudes en les vides de les persones queer.
two experiences unfortunately very common and well-known in the lives of queer people.
Ens hem acostumat a veure molts personatges LGTBIQ+,
We have become accustomed to seeing many LGTBIQ+ characters.
absolutament sols i desemparats en un món cis-heterosexual.
absolutely alone and defenseless in a cis-heterosexual world.
Personatges que, més enllà de ser el token, d'estar sols,
Characters that, beyond being the token, are alone,
no tenen cap referent, cap acompanyament, cap vincle LGTBIQ+.
they have no reference, no support, no LGBTQ+ connection.
També hem sentit moltes històries de creadors del món audiovisual
We have also heard many stories from creators in the audiovisual world.
que han hagut de barallar-se perquè la seva veu es pugui sentir
that they have had to fight so that their voice can be heard
en una indústria dominada pels homes heterosexuals.
in an industry dominated by heterosexual men.
I també coneixem l'experiència de veure pel·lícules LGTBIQ+,
And we also know the experience of watching LGTBIQ+ movies,
des de la intimitat del nostre portàtil i la nostra habitació,
from the intimacy of our laptop and our room,
sense saber amb qui compartir-ho.
without knowing who to share it with.
La solitud pot dur-nos a fer-nos sentir com a aliens, com a outsiders.
Loneliness can make us feel like outsiders, like aliens.
I per això molta gent queer recorda el moment en què va descobrir que no estava sola,
And that is why many queer people remember the moment when they discovered that they were not alone,
que formava part d'alguna cosa més gran i un lloc on podia trobar aixopluc.
that was part of something greater and a place where I could find shelter.
I molts d'aquests moments estan travessats per l'audiovisual.
And many of these moments are permeated by the audiovisual.
Per això avui volíem preguntar-nos
That's why today we wanted to ask ourselves.
com podem explicar històries de subjectes col·lectius?
How can we explain stories of collective subjects?
Com podem crear històries des de la segona persona,
How can we create stories from the second person,
des del plural?
from the plural?
I com podem fer-ho juntis?
And how can we do it together?
I és que quan parlem de comunitat, parlem de lluita, d'activisme, de cures i de família,
And when we talk about community, we talk about struggle, activism, care, and family,
de l'eufòria i de la festa compartida.
of euphoria and shared celebration.
Quan parlem de comunitat, parlem de crear acompanyadis,
When we talk about community, we talk about creating companionships.
de no haver-te d'explicar que has de passar perquè estàs amb gent
not having to explain to you that you have to go because you're with people
que ha viscut experiències similars a la teva.
who has lived experiences similar to yours.
Quan parlem de comunitat, parlem de mirar cine amb uns ulls que comparteixen la mateixa mirada furtiva,
When we talk about community, we talk about watching a movie with eyes that share the same furtive glance,
o de construir arxius físics o sentimentals,
or to build physical or sentimental archives,
de pel·lícules i sèries amb personatges LGTBIQ+.
of movies and series with LGBTQ+ characters.
En definitiva, parlar de comunitat és parlar de que no estem solis,
Ultimately, talking about community is talking about the fact that we are not alone,
i de la potencialitat i del poder de la comunitat.
and of the potentiality and power of the community.
Avui, a Retrats Intermitents, volem abordar les possibilitats de parlar de la comunitat
Today, at Intermittent Portraits, we want to explore the possibilities of discussing the community.
i de crear en comunitat,
and to create in community,
però també de les dificultats de construir-la i del perill de deixar-nos gent a fora.
but also about the difficulties of building it and the danger of leaving people out.
Quines comunitats construïm?
What communities are we building?
Quines comunitats representem?
Which communities do we represent?
I qui no pot formar-ne part?
And who cannot be a part of it?
Realment podem crear en comunitat dins d'una indústria tan hostil a les identitats dissidents?
Can we really create a community within an industry so hostile to dissenting identities?
Avui tenim la sort de poder-ho parlar en comunitat amb tres convidadis,
Today we have the luck to discuss it in the community with three guests,
però abans, escoltem a la Sara Montiel.
but first, let's listen to Sara Montiel.
Sí, por ahí comprobarás
Yes, you will check there.
que cuando muerdo de tu la señal
that when I bite your signal
atrévete, atrévete y verás.
dare yourself, dare yourself and you will see.
Sónava a Atrévete, otra vez, de la Sara Montiel, la cançó que ha escollit en Santi Lomas.
It was playing "Atrévete, otra vez," by Sara Montiel, the song chosen by Santi Lomas.
En Santi Lomas és doctor investigador en comunicació a la Universitat Carlos III de Madrid,
Santi Lomas is a research doctor in communication at Carlos III University of Madrid.
i ha investigat les relacions de la història cultural queer,
and has researched the relationships of queer cultural history,
amb la història del cine-televisió a Espanya.
with the history of film-television in Spain.
Gràcies per ser aquí i benvingut a Retrats Intermitents.
Thank you for being here and welcome to Intermittent Portraits.
Per què has portat aquesta cançó?
Why did you bring this song?
Bueno, muchas gracias por invitarme a participar.
Well, thank you very much for inviting me to participate.
La canción, bueno, después de pensarlo, sobre todo la elegí,
The song, well, after thinking about it, I chose it especially.
porque para mí fue como un punto de no retorno en cuanto a intereses culturales sobre o hacia conocer,
because for me it was like a point of no return regarding cultural interests about or towards knowing,
y investigar la subcultura homosexual que existía durante el franquismo,
and investigate the homosexual subculture that existed during Franco's regime,
que es sobre lo que acabé haciendo mi tesis,
which is what I ended up writing my thesis on,
que de ahí se ha derivado un libro,
that has led to a book,
que a mí, bueno, era algo como que me pillaba lejos,
that to me, well, it was something like it caught me off guard,
pues Sara Montiel, todo esto, que luego acabé investigando,
well Sara Montiel, all of this, which I later ended up investigating,
y entonces el punto de contacto fue esta canción
And then the point of contact was this song.
que está hecha por Carlos Berlanga y Nacho Canut,
that is made by Carlos Berlanga and Nacho Canut,
que eran, bueno, de Alaska y Dinarama,
they were, well, from Alaska and Dinarama,
claro, que me pillaba más cerca culturalmente
Of course, it was closer to me culturally.
el mundo de Alaska y Dinarama que el de Sara Montiel,
the world of Alaska and Dinarama than that of Sara Montiel,
pero bueno, fue ese punto de entrada,
but well, that was the entry point,
y en fin, es una canción que es puro camp,
and in the end, it's a song that is pure camp,
para empezar a conocer a Sara,
to start getting to know Sara,
que también se autoparodia, no sé,
that also self-parodies, I don't know,
ya digo, fue un punto de entrada perfecto para entrar en ese mundo.
I say, it was a perfect entry point to enter that world.
Té a veure també com amb la comunitat històrica, no?
It also has to do with the historical community, right?
No només en el present.
Not only in the present.
Sí, exacto.
Yes, exactly.
Es decir,
That is to say,
fue como una especie de vínculo,
it was like a kind of bond,
para empezar a conocer y indagar
to start getting to know and explore
esa subcultura oculta o poco investigada
that hidden or little-researched subculture
que había existido en el pasado,
that had existed in the past,
por qué Sara Montiel era tan importante
Why was Sara Montiel so important?
para tanta gente queer, sobre todo gays,
for so many queer people, especially gays,
por qué, incluso por qué para mí desde el 2013,
why, even why for me since 2013,
que fue el momento en el que escuché esta canción por primera vez,
that was the moment I heard this song for the first time,
o antes que había visto alguna de las películas,
or before I had seen any of the movies,
por qué todavía había algo en esas películas
why there was still something in those movies
que me llamaba la atención o me despertaba simpatía
that caught my attention or aroused my sympathy
frente a otras de cine comercial del franquismo
compared to other commercial cinema of the Franco regime
que o me daban pereza
that either bored me or made me lazy
o directamente no había ningún punto de contacto.
or there simply wasn't any point of contact.
Entonces, por ahí entré.
So, that's how I got in.
Y luego también, que desde un punto de vista,
And then also, from a certain point of view,
pues eso, como digo, camp, de estética camp,
well, as I say, camp, of camp aesthetics,
es una canción muy, no sé, excesiva, o sea,
It's a very, I don't know, excessive song, I mean,
empieza con refranes, ¿no?
It starts with proverbs, right?
Tiraste la piedra, escondiste la mano
You threw the stone, you hid the hand.
y vienes a verme de Pascua a Sarramos.
and you come to see me at Easter in Sarramos.
Es que hay una canción que empieza así,
It's just that there's a song that starts like this,
cantada por una superdiva, ¿no?,
sung by a super diva, right?
como Sara, pues ya es algo que llama, ¿no?,
like Sara, because it's something that stands out, right?
me llama a sentirme parte de esa comunidad, ¿no?
It calls me to feel part of that community, doesn’t it?
Doncs moltes gràcies, Santi, per portar-nos aquesta cançó.
Well, thank you very much, Santi, for bringing us this song.
També volem donar la benvinguda a en Marc Llinàs,
We also want to welcome Marc Llinàs,
guionista i humorista, creador del podcast
screenwriter and comedian, creator of the podcast
Mòbil Cartera Claus a Ràdio Primavera Sound,
Mobile Wallet Keys at Primavera Sound Radio,
i que actualment treballa com a guionista
and currently works as a screenwriter
al programa Està Passant de TV3.
to the program Està Passant on TV3.
Gràcies per ser amb nosaltres.
Thank you for being with us.
Moltes gràcies a vosaltres per convidar-me.
Thank you very much for inviting me.
I també saludem la Glori Jiménez,
And we also greet Glori Jiménez,
educadora i comunicadora audiovisual
educator and audiovisual communicator
que actualment fa classes de canalla i adolescents,
who is currently teaching children and adolescents,
i escriu ficció.
and write fiction.
Gràcies i benvinguda a Retrats Intermitents.
Thank you and welcome to Intermittent Portraits.
Muchas gracias a ti, Marta.
Thank you very much, Marta.
Muy contenta de estar aquí compartiendo con todes.
Very happy to be here sharing with everyone.
Per començar a parlar de comunitat,
To start talking about community,
hem seleccionat una escena de la sèrie
we have selected a scene from the series
A League of Their Own.
A League of Their Own.
Es tracta d'una sèrie que va sortir l'any passat
It is a series that was released last year.
a Amazon Prime.
to Amazon Prime.
Està creada per l'Avi Jacobson i en Will Graham,
It was created by Grandpa Jacobson and Will Graham,
i està basada en la pel·lícula homònima
and is based on the homonymous film
del 1992.
from 1992.
Explica la història d'un equip de jugadores
Tell the story of a team of players.
de beisbol durant la Segona Guerra Mundial
of baseball during World War II
als Estats Units.
in the United States.
Veurem aquesta escena, que és del sisè capítol,
We will see this scene, which is from the sixth chapter.
i la comentarem entre totes.
And we will discuss it among all of us.
Estás inapropiado.
You are inappropriate.
¿Cómo puede querer estar en otro equipo?
How can he want to be on another team?
Ok, Carson.
Ok, Carson.
¿Puedes no decírselo a nadie?
Can you not tell anyone?
Venga, se lo diré a todo el mundo
Come on, I'll tell everyone.
para que sepan la clase de persona que eres.
so they know what kind of person you are.
Lupe creía que por fin habíamos conectado.
Lupe believed that we had finally connected.
No sabía que estabas con ella.
I didn't know you were with her.
Nunca te haría eso yo.
I would never do that to you.
Aguarda, no.
Wait, no.
Bueno, no la conozco.
Well, I don't know her.
Tú también estoy muy decepcionada con vosotras.
I am also very disappointed with you.
Ni siquiera sé qué.
I don't even know what.
¿Qué estás haciendo tú aquí?
What are you doing here?
Te he seguido, Lupe.
I have followed you, Lupe.
Sé que quieres cambiarte a las Comets, ¿vale?
I know you want to switch to the Comets, okay?
Te he oído hablar con Beverly.
I heard you talking to Beverly.
¿Qué? Ay, Dios mío, no, no, no, Carson.
What? Oh my God, no, no, no, Carson.
Le decía que quiero cambiar de habitación.
I was telling her that I want to change rooms.
Quiero... Ya no quiero estar con Esti.
I want... I don't want to be with Esti anymore.
Claro, ya.
Sure, already.
Por eso estabas con tu contrincante.
That's why you were with your opponent.
¿De qué te ríes?
What are you laughing at?
A ver, a ver, espera.
Let's see, let's see, wait.
Carson.
Carson.
Abre los ojos.
Open your eyes.
Vale.
Okay.
No, amor.
No, love.
Es como nosotras.
It's like us.
¿Qué dices?
What are you saying?
No.
No.
Carson, la granjera del marido en la guerra.
Carson, the farmer's wife in the war.
No soy granjera.
I am not a farmer.
¿Cómo lo has sabido?
How did you know?
Desde la primera noche en el bar.
Since the first night in the bar.
Pero hace poco te quedaste dormida en mi cuarto con Greta.
But recently you fell asleep in my room with Greta.
No, bata.
No, gown.
¿Tú y Greta?
You and Greta?
Bebé.
Baby.
Ay, Dios. La estatura.
Oh, God. The height.
La altura. ¿Quién hace qué?
The height. Who does what?
¿Qué es este sitio?
What is this site?
Bé, per les persones que només han sentit l'àudio,
Well, for the people who have only heard the audio,
Glory, ens pots descriure l'escena?
Glory, can you describe the scene to us?
Claro.
Of course.
A ver, todo comienza en un espacio bastante
Let's see, it all starts in a rather
cerrado y clandestino,
closed and clandestine,
con una luz así bien fuerte azul.
with a strong blue light like that.
Y en esta clandestinidad
And in this clandestinity
de repente se ve una mujer que
suddenly a woman is seen who
da la sensación de que está a punto
it feels like it's about to
de descubrir algo, que está en la búsqueda de algo.
of discovering something, that is in search of something.
Y de hecho, cuando abre las
And in fact, when he/she opens the
unas cortinas que tiene de frente, pues,
some curtains that he has in front, well,
se le abre un espacio totalmente distinto,
a completely different space opens up for him/her,
que viene siendo un ambiente muy cálido,
which is a very warm environment,
un bar muy animado,
a very lively bar,
pero también tranquilo, relajado.
but also calm, relaxed.
Copas, música de los años
Drinks, music from the years
así 40, todo el mundo tranquilo, pero
so 40, everyone calm, but
en este ambiente la única
in this environment the only
que sigue con el seño fruncido
who continues with a furrowed brow
parece ser ella.
It seems to be her.
Y entendemos que
And we understand that
en cuanto se enfoca
as soon as it is focused
en una de las mesas pequeñas,
at one of the small tables,
porque sigue enfadada,
why is she still angry,
ve a una de las compañeras de su equipo
he goes to one of his team members
interactuando de una manera así
interacting in such a way
muy amistosa y muy cariñosa con otra.
very friendly and very affectionate with each other.
Cuando ve esto, entiende
When you see this, understand.
que hay algo que no
that there is something that doesn't
calza, que no le encaja.
shoe, that doesn't fit him.
Pero cuando
But when
las empieza a reñir y empieza a enfadarse
she starts to scold them and begins to get angry
con ellas, pues ellas
with them, because they
se enteran de que hay un malentendido
they find out that there is a misunderstanding
detrás de todo esto y le explican.
behind all this and they explain it to him.
Y es cuando está esa frase clave que le dice
And it is when there is that key phrase that tells him.
hey, abre los ojos.
Hey, open your eyes.
En este momento
At this moment
es clave porque es cuando ella empieza a mirar
It is key because it's when she starts to look.
y se entera, absorbe su
and learns, absorbs her
entorno y ve que todo su contexto
environment and sees all its context
le revienta
it bursts him/her
la cabeza, ve que todo su
the head, sees that all its
contexto está lleno de personas queer,
the context is full of queer people,
de parejas que están viviendo su
of couples who are living their
sexualidad de una manera
sexuality in a way
súper tranquila, en una burbuja,
super calm, in a bubble,
en un espacio muy seguro
in a very safe space
para ellos y
for them and
que en esos años y en esa época
that in those years and in that time
pues era incluso penalizado.
well, it was even penalized.
Entonces, claro, para ella es como un boom
So, of course, for her it's like a boom.
muy fuerte.
very strong.
Y les dice, claro,
And he tells them, of course,
ahí cambia todo, ¿no? Entró como
there everything changes, right? It came in like
a esa otra realidad
to that other reality
paralela que a lo mejor
parallel that maybe
creía no posible.
I thought it was not possible.
Moltes gràcies, Glory.
Thank you very much, Glory.
És com el que deies, no? Hi ha la protagonista,
It's like what you said, right? There's the protagonist,
la Carson, que descobreix
Carson, who discovers
que les seves companyes d'equip,
that their teammates,
n'hi ha que també són lesbianes, i a més a més que
there are some who are also lesbians, and moreover that
freqüenten un bar que elles no s'havien
They frequent a bar that they had not.
imaginat mai que pogués existir, un bar
imagine never that a bar could exist
així clandestí.
thus clandestine.
No sé si heu sentit mai com un moment
I don’t know if you have ever felt like a moment.
d'aquests d'entrar a un lloc i descobrir
of entering a place and discovering
una comunitat, ja sigui
a community, whether it is
virtualment, ja sigui
virtually, whether it's
amb presència física.
with physical presence.
A mi, així,
To me, like this,
o sigui, és que jo no he vist
that is, I haven't seen
aquesta sèrie, i aquí no me queda
this series, and here I have no more left
clar si la protagonista quan entra
of course if the protagonist when she enters
si ella és lesbiana o no,
whether she is a lesbian or not,
o bisexual,
or bisexual,
i per tant, no sé si
and therefore, I don't know if
entra allà i se n'adona que és
goes in there and realizes that it is
completament extraterrestre en aquest ambient,
completely extraterrestrial in this environment,
cosa que sí que m'ha passat a bars
something that has happened to me in bars
de poble,
of the village,
però per altra banda sí que m'ha
but on the other hand, yes it has.
passat d'entrar a bars LGTB,
past of entering LGBT bars,
sobretot quan era més petit,
especially when I was younger,
i de cercar-ho a posta, de pensar
and to look for it deliberately, to think
aquí hi ha gent com jo, per tant jo he d'anar aquí,
there are people like me here, so I have to go here,
m'he de colar aquí, com sigui,
I have to sneak in here, whatever it takes.
i sí que ho he fet.
And yes, I have done it.
Sí, en mi caso
Yes, in my case.
no sé, pensaba
I don't know, I was thinking.
no tanto quizás lugares
not so much perhaps places
físicos
physicists
como, digamos, espacios
like, let's say, spaces
culturales, ¿no?, de pues una vez
cultural, right?, so once
que vas investigando, conociendo
what you are investigating, getting to know
pues códigos, referentes y tal,
well codes, references and so on,
de ver alguna película,
to watch a movie,
¿no?, uy, esta película
No? Oh, this movie.
me suena, ¿no?,
It sounds familiar, doesn't it?
a ciertas cosas,
to certain things,
o incluso algo que me pasó
or even something that happened to me
durante el proceso de investigación
during the research process
de la tesis,
of the thesis,
entre comillas, descubrir
"between quotes, discover"
la sexualidad de algunos creadores
the sexuality of some creators
por los tipos de códigos, ¿no?, que manejaban
because of the types of codes, right?, that they were dealing with
no tan
not so
normativos, ¿no?, sino, bueno, aquí hay una
normative, right?, but, well, here is one
serie de predilecciones, esto parece que va
series of preferences, it seems that this is going
en esta dirección, e indagar y en efecto,
in this direction, and inquire and indeed,
¿no?, pues gente que no se había casado en un...
No? Well, people who hadn't gotten married in a...
nunca así, e incluso
never like this, and even
algunos acabaron
some ended up
siendo parte de mi investigación.
Being part of my research.
Sí, a mí también
Yes, me too.
me pasó
it happened to me
que una de las primeras veces que
that one of the first times that
fui a un bar,
I went to a bar,
que también era considerado clandestino
which was also considered clandestine
en mi país, pues también hay como una
In my country, there is also like a...
línea de tiempo diferente que maneja otro tipo
different timeline that handles another type
de códigos y de cosas,
of codes and things,
la primera vez que entré
the first time I entered
recuerdo que fue similar
I remember it was similar.
a la protagonista porque iba siguiendo a alguien,
to the protagonist because she was following someone,
¿sabes?, no así tan
You know, not quite like that.
serie de televisión
television series
pero sí que
but yes that
fue como en plan
it was like in a way
siguiendo a esta persona que me dice, no, venga,
following this person who tells me, no, come on,
que vamos a ir a un lugar, no sé qué, te va a gustar
We're going to go to a place, I don't know what, you're going to like it.
y tal, y bueno, cuando
and so on, and well, when
entré fue esa apertura
what an opening that was
a realmente como
oh really how
ver por primera vez
see for the first time
personas dándose besos
people kissing
pero ya fuera de pantalla
but already off-screen
porque al final la primera vez que lo vi fue en pantalla,
because in the end the first time I saw it was on screen,
ya fuera de pantalla fue en uno de estos lugares
It was in one of these places off-screen.
y sí recuerdo como una sensación
and yes I remember it as a feeling
muy intensa.
very intense.
De repente me chocó,
Suddenly it hit me,
fue como un choque cognitivo
it was like a cognitive shock
que hizo como una pequeña explosión
that made a small explosion
y me abrió la mirada.
and opened my eyes.
En una entrevista a la co-creadora
In an interview with the co-creator.
i actriu protagonista de la sèrie, l'Avi Jacobson,
and lead actress of the series, Avi Jacobson,
ella explica que la sèrie
She explains that the series
va de trobar el teu equip,
he found your team,
però no només de beisbol. Ella diu
but not only about baseball. She says
també va de trobar gent que et vegi
it also comes from finding people who see you
i això és la comunitat queer.
and this is the queer community.
Espero que l'audiència pugui veure reflectida
I hope the audience can see themselves reflected.
la seva comunitat, i si encara no l'han trobat
their community, and if they have not found it yet
que sàpiguen que mai és massa tard
Let them know that it is never too late.
per trobar-ne una.
to find one.
Potser podem començar per la pregunta
Perhaps we can start with the question.
més òbvia, però més essencial.
more obvious, but more essential.
Per vosaltres, què és?
For you, what is it?
Què significa la comunitat?
What does community mean?
I ha sigut l'audiovisual
It has been the audiovisual.
un vehicle per trobar-la
a vehicle to find her
o formar-ne una?
or form one?
En mi caso,
In my case,
no sé, sobre todo
I don't know, above all.
diría que es
I would say that it is.
cultura compartida, no?
shared culture, right?
Es decir, cultura que compartes
That is to say, culture that you share.
con otras personas,
with other people,
que tiene que ver con tu identidad,
that has to do with your identity,
pero que va más allá
but goes beyond
de lo puramente sexual, ¿no?
Of the purely sexual, right?
Porque a veces, no sé, sobre todo
Because sometimes, I don't know, especially
con personas gays es como, bueno,
with gay people it's like, well,
yo me acuesto con personas de mi mismo sexo,
I sleep with people of my same sex.
pero soy tan hombre como los demás,
but I am as much a man as the others,
todo este tipo de cosas, ¿no?
all this kind of stuff, right?
Como para no perder los privilegios
As if to not lose the privileges.
de la masculinidad y tal.
of masculinity and such.
Para mí es eso, sobre todo cultura compartida
For me, it's that, above all, shared culture.
que te permite
that allows you
contactar con gente como tú,
contacting people like you,
incluso que puede vivir en otra época
even if he/she can live in another time
o en otro país, ¿no?
or in another country, right?
Y también algo con lo que
And also something with which
construir la identidad,
build identity,
¿no? La búsqueda de referente.
No? The search for a reference.
Para mí,
For me,
el cine, pero también la literatura,
the cinema, but also literature,
yo pienso en mi adolescencia
I think about my adolescence.
y, no sé, pues
and, I don't know, well
gente como Pasolini, ¿no?
People like Pasolini, right?
Terence y Moïse, pues eran como, no sé,
Terence and Moïse, well, they were like, I don’t know,
referentes de hacia,
references of towards,
bueno, ¿qué podría ser
Well, what could it be?
yo de mayor? No sé cómo decir, ¿no?
Me when I grow up? I don’t know how to say, right?
Entonces, bueno, ves
So, well, you see
pues qué han hecho, encuentras
well, what have they done, you find
no sé, ciertos
I don't know, certain.
confort leyendo o viendo
comfort reading or watching
ciertas cosas frente
certain things in front
a otras, y eso es un poco
to others, and that is a little
más lo que diría yo aquí.
but what I would say here.
A mí,
To me,
recollint lo de referents,
collecting the references,
per jo, sa comunitat ha sigut una...
for me, the community has been a...
ha sigut imprescindible
it has been essential
per generar
to generate
referents positius, perquè
positive role models, because
és un lloc on tu trobes gent que és
it's a place where you find people who are
com tu i que té una vida i que,
like you and who has a life and that,
bueno, que és un referent positiu
Well, what is a positive reference?
que va més enllà de sa representació
that goes beyond its representation
de...
from...
altres persones, ¿no? I per jo
other people, right? And for me
és molt important i també
it is very important and also
sa comunitat crec que és molt útil
I think this community is very useful.
per... és una molt bona
for... it's a very good one
manera d'entendre sa violència estructural.
way of understanding its structural violence.
És una manera de dir, vale, a mi no me passen
It's a way of saying, okay, it doesn't happen to me.
ses coses que me passen perquè soc jo,
those things that happen to me because I am me,
sinó per lo que soc i per lo que som
but for what I am and for what we are
totes aquestes persones. I per tant, això
all these people. And therefore, this
ajuda de fet, i és una altra
help in fact, and it's another one
funció que crec que és molt important de ses comunitats,
function that I believe is very important for these communities,
que una vegada tu entens
that once you understand
que reps aquesta violència
that you receive this violence
estructural i que totes aquestes persones
structural and that all these people
també, eh...
also, eh...
mos podem unir
we can unite
per... contra...
for... against...
combatre-la, ¿no? I per tant,
to combat it, right? And therefore,
per jo aquestes són ses
for me these are hers
ses coses que més
the things that matter most
agaf d'una comunitat, lo que
taken from a community, what
les fa més imprescindibles.
makes them more essential.
Sí, totalmente. Yo retomando
Yes, totally. I'm picking it up again.
desde esa idea, también me gustaría
from that idea, I would also like
aportar una cita que
provide a quote that
es de una escritora, Remedios
It's from a writer, Remedios.
Afra, que me leí por ahí,
Afra, whom I read about somewhere,
y ella esta idea plantea
and she raises this idea
que la fragilidad es costura
that fragility is stitching
comunitaria. Y...
community. And...
me parece una idea muy potente, porque claro,
I think it's a very powerful idea, because of course,
ella lo habla desde su propio cuerpo,
she speaks it from her own body,
¿no? Tiene un deterioro, está sometida a un deterioro
No? It has a deterioration, it is subject to deterioration.
visual y auditivo muy fuerte,
very strong visual and auditory,
y entonces ella encuentra la fragilidad
and then she finds the fragility
en su propio cuerpo, ¿no? Que está
in his own body, right? That is
literalmente deteriorándose,
literally deteriorating,
y entiende que a partir de ahí se hace evidente
and understands that from there it becomes evident
la necesidad que tienes de otras
the need you have for others
personas en tu vida, ¿no? Y que eso,
people in your life, right? And that,
la fortaleza que eso te puede llegar a generar.
the strength that it can generate in you.
Entonces,
So,
me hace pensar en este tema
It makes me think about this topic.
de la fragilidad, de poder identificar en ti misma
of fragility, of being able to identify within yourself
a dónde tienes esa fragilidad,
where do you have that fragility,
qué es hoy, qué es mañana,
what is today, what is tomorrow,
porque también somos dinámicas, ¿no?
because we are also dynamic, right?
Y vamos cambiando y tal,
And we keep changing and so on,
y a partir de esa fragilidad
and from that fragility
ir construyendo y ser capaces de
continue building and be able to
formar alianzas, ¿no? Y esto que
form alliances, right? And this that
comentaban de la importancia de
they were commenting on the importance of
poder entender las fragilidades de todos
to be able to understand everyone's fragilities
para que ese tejido de alguna manera nos arrope
so that this fabric somehow wraps around us
de una manera más grande de lo que eres tú misma,
in a way bigger than you are yourself,
¿no? De...
No? From...
un rescate así
such a rescue
como...
how...
de alguna manera más... que está en
somehow more... that is in
bastante regeneración.
quite a bit of regeneration.
Mira, abans de
Look, before you
seguir parlant sobre la comunitat,
continue talking about the community,
escoltarem, doncs, la cançó que ens ha portat,
we will listen, then, to the song that she has brought us,
La Glory.
The Glory.
Out of the rain
Out of the rain
When you're strange
When you're strange
No one remembers your name
No one remembers your name.
La cançó que sonava era
The song that was playing was
People are strange, de The Doors.
People Are Strange, by The Doors.
Glory, ¿per què aquesta cançó t'ha fet
Glory, why has this song made you?
pensar en la comunitat?
think about the community?
Sí, es una
Yes, it is one.
cançó que me encanta, la verdad, porque
song that I love, the truth is, because
te remite
it refers you
directamente a la extrañeza, ¿no? A lo raro,
directly to the strangeness, right? To the weird,
a esta sensación de
to this feeling of
estoy fuera de algo
I am out of something.
y desde aquí todo se ve feo y triste
and from here everything looks ugly and sad
y oscuro.
and dark.
Pero esta sensación así un poquito
But this feeling is just a little bit.
negativa la acompañan,
negative accompanies her,
The Doors la acompañan con un ritmito
The Doors accompany her with a little rhythm.
así como muy...
as well as very...
más bien distinto incluso en su propia
rather different even in its own
discografía, no sé, yo lo siento como más
discography, I don't know, I feel it as more
ameno, más de aventura.
pleasant, more of an adventure.
Y entonces
And then
todas las palabras tienen distintas
All words have different meanings.
puertas de entrada, ¿no? Y esto de la
entry doors, right? And this of the
rareza y del estar aislada
rarity and being isolated
te lleva
takes you
como a sentir un vacío
like feeling an emptiness
oscuro, profundo
dark, deep
y todo, pero que a la vez
and everything, but at the same time
si no sientes ese
if you don't feel that
vacío, si no sientes esa sensación
empty, if you don't feel that sensation
de caer en un abismo,
of falling into an abyss,
¿cómo le vas a dar valor a la comunidad?
How are you going to add value to the community?
Entonces, siempre tienes que
So, you always have to
partir de esa rareza y ese
starting from that rarity and that
extrañamiento. Pero luego viene
estrangement. But then comes
el otro sentido de la palabra,
the other meaning of the word,
de la palabra como rareza,
from the word as a rarity,
que es esa distancia que se genera.
What is that distance that is created?
En la medida que tú puedes generar esa
To the extent that you can generate that
distancia, también eres capaz de
distance, you are also able to
comentar ciertas cosas, no sé si les ha
comment on certain things, I don't know if they have
pasado, pero también con
past, but also with
personas que no están tan próximas a ti, que no
people who are not so close to you, who do not
tienen unas expectativas tan fuertes
they have such strong expectations
hacia ti, eres capaz de compartir
towards you, you are able to share
secretos, inclusive, o de comentar
secrets, including, or commenting
cosas o de profundizar en temas
things or to deepen topics
que a lo mejor con personas muy
that maybe with very people
próximas o que te, de alguna manera,
next or that you, in some way,
te daría una reacción
I would give you a reaction.
bastante más agresiva, no
quite a bit more aggressive, right?
sientes como la
you feel like the
fortaleza de decirlo, ¿no? Entonces
strength to say it, right? So
no sé, creo que es una palabra muy fuerte
I don't know, I think it's a very strong word.
porque parte del aislamiento, pero también
because part of the isolation, but also
te agarra esa forma positiva de la distancia.
It grabs you in that positive way of distance.
Os volví a llençar una pregunta,
I threw a question at you again,
a totis. ¿Quién es la
to everyone. Who is the
vostra percepción sobre la representación
your perception of the representation
de la comunidad en el audiovisual?
of the community in the audiovisual?
Preguntón, ¿eh?
Questions, huh?
Preguntón, preguntón.
Questioner, questioner.
¿Qui s'anima?
Who’s up for it?
Venga, va.
Come on, let's go.
A ver,
Let's see,
claro, es muy difícil
Of course, it's very difficult.
decir, ¿no?, de una
to say, right?, immediately
forma contundente,
forceful way,
resumirlo en una
summarize it in one
línea. Mi impresión
line. My impression
es que está mejorando, ¿no?, que
is that it's getting better, isn't it?, that
hay más espacio para la
there is more space for the
diversidad, para imágenes más diversas,
diversity, for more diverse images,
aunque queda camino por
although there is still a way to go
andar, por así decir.
walk, so to speak.
Lo que pasa, yo tengo un poco
What happens is, I have a little.
una
one
paranoia, ¿no?, yo soy muy exagerado,
paranoia, right?, I'm very exaggerated,
en el sentido de que
in the sense that
al final esta
in the end this is
abundancia, esta proliferación de
abundance, this proliferation of
nuevas imágenes, también
new images, too
va ligada a ciertas dinámicas
is linked to certain dynamics
industriales, ¿no? Pongamos, por ejemplo,
industries, right? Let's say, for example,
las nuevas plataformas, ¿no?, que quieren abrirse
the new platforms, right?, that want to open up
espacio en el mercado
market space
y para diferenciarse un
and to differentiate oneself a
poco, utilizan contenidos
little, they use content
queer, por así decir. Entonces,
queer, so to speak. So,
me gustaría
I would like.
pensar que en la mayoría de los casos
to think that in most cases
ese interés por lo queer es
that interest in the queer is
honesto, ¿no?, pero a la vez
honest, right?, but at the same time
me inquieta un poco porque pienso,
it worries me a little because I think,
esto es una exageración, ¿no?, pero pienso,
this is an exaggeration, isn't it?, but I think,
no sé si acabara habiendo un gobierno
I don't know if a government will eventually be formed.
de extrema derecha al cabo de los años,
far-right over the years,
se pondrían de moda esos
they would become fashionable those
otros contenidos, ¿no?, porque es lo que está
other content, right?, because that's what it is
de moda en la sociedad. Entonces,
fashionable in society. So,
por eso, quiero pensar que no es
that's why I want to think that it isn't
solo puro interés, digamos,
just pure interest, let's say,
industrial, el que proliferen ciertas
industrial, that which certain proliferate
imágenes, ¿no?, con algunas plataformas de
images, right?, with some platforms of
pago, sobre todo, sino que
payment, above all, but rather that
hay un verdadero interés, ¿no?,
There is a real interest, isn't there?
por ayudar a la
for helping to the
comunidad. Eso es un poco lo que me inquieta a mí.
community. That's a bit what worries me.
Jo penso, clar, de quines comunitats
I think, of course, about which communities.
estem xerrant? Vull dir, estem xerrant de la representació
Are we talking? I mean, are we talking about the representation?
de comunitats a l'audiovisual
from communities to the audiovisual
i comunitats
and communities
n'hi ha a totes les peces audiovisuals,
there are in all audiovisual pieces,
vull dir, The Office és una comunitat,
I mean, The Office is a community,
Lost, Leftovers,
Lost, Leftovers,
Parks, vull dir, inclús
Parks, I mean, even
Last of Us està xerrant de comunitats
The Last of Us is talking about communities.
i com actuàvem davant de la fi del món,
and how we acted in the face of the end of the world,
una mica, per tant,
a little bit, therefore,
el problema és quines comunitats
the problem is which communities
estan legitimades i quines no,
they are legitimized and which are not,
i que, curiosament,
and that, curiously,
de fet, és molt curiós que
in fact, it is very curious that
quan hi ha personatges LGTB,
when there are LGBT characters,
moltes vegades no se'ls
many times I don't know them
representen com a unitat, i aquí
they represent as a unit, and here
jo crec que és una gran diferència
I think it is a big difference.
entre si
between themselves
els productes els ha fet una persona que forma
the products have been made by a person who educates
part del col·lectiu,
part of the collective,
o un grup de persones,
or a group of people,
o no, i
oh no, and
precisament quan la comunitat
precisely when the community
és bàsicament el nostre
it's basically ours
espai,
space,
com avui dia és el nostre
as it is today our
estat més natural, com de
more natural state, like of
col·lectiu LGTB, per tant,
LGBT collective, therefore,
crec que la comunitat
I believe that the community
està àmpliament representada perquè
it is widely represented because
com a éssers humans,
as human beings,
ens organitzem d'aquesta manera,
we organize ourselves this way,
però que sí que hi ha unes
but there are some
jerarquies de quines
hierarchies of who
comunitats tenen
what communities have
dret a representar-se i quines no,
right to represent oneself and which cannot,
i de fet queda bastant reflectit
and in fact, it is quite reflected
quan diem, bueno, això és una sèrie de gais,
when we say, well, this is a series of gay people,
això és una sèrie de negres, o el que sigui,
this is a series of blacks, or whatever,
en canvi no diem això és una sèrie d'heteros,
instead we don't say this is a series of heteros,
o una sèrie de blancs,
or a series of blanks,
no sé, vull dir que
I don't know, I mean that
a nivell de comunitat
at the community level
no és que falti representació en aquest sentit.
It's not that there's a lack of representation in this regard.
Clar, depèn de si és
Of course, it depends on whether it is.
comunitat LGTBI, no?, també,
LGBT community, right? Also,
i no sé si heu vist una millora
I don't know if you have seen an improvement.
en els últims anys, tu també parlaves de
in recent years, you also talked about
proliferació, però no sé si
proliferation, but I don't know if
acaben sent potser exemples molt
they end up being maybe very examples
homonormatius, no?, transnormatius,
homonormative, right?, transnormative,
o si comenceu a veure
or if you start to see
més representació
more representation
de comunitats, menys personatge sol,
of communities, less lone character,
amb visions diferents.
with different visions.
Jo crec que un gran
I believe that a great
avantatge de
advantage of
representar comunitats
represent communities
és que pots representar incoherències
it's that you can represent inconsistencies
i pots representar diferències,
and you can represent differences,
perquè si no representa com una
because if not it represents like a
massa homogènia d'opinions
homogeneous mass of opinions
iguals, de pensaments
equal, in thoughts
iguals, i és mentida.
the same, and it is a lie.
Vull dir, és una
I mean, it's a
mala representació, i per tant
poor representation, and therefore
poder
power
generar aquests espais on fins i tot
generate these spaces where even
hi hagi opinions contràries, o fins i tot
there may be opposing opinions, or even
els propis personatges no tinguin totes les respostes
the characters themselves do not have all the answers
donades del que és
given what it is
formar part d'un col·lectiu, doncs
to be part of a collective, then
és més verídic, és més
it is more truthful, it is more
ric, i
rich, and
és necessari, de fet.
It is necessary, in fact.
Sí, jo estoy
Yes, I am.
totalmente en esa línea
totally in that line
del tema de las comunidades. De hecho,
about the issue of communities. In fact,
cuando lo decías,
when you said it,
Mar, se me venía esto de
Mar, this came to my mind.
que tantas veces,
that so many times,
o sea, es tan necesario enriquecer el tipo de
in other words, it is so necessary to enrich the type of
comunidades, que inclusive que se ven,
communities, including those that are visible,
porque las lees de una manera
because you read them in a certain way
polarizada. Es verdad que están,
polarized. It is true that they are,
que sientes esa
What do you feel that?
evolución, yo creo, que como audiencia la sientes,
evolution, I believe, as an audience you feel it.
o sea, de alguna manera siempre se veían
that is to say, in some way they always saw each other
personajes en soledad
characters in solitude
absoluta, y pues tú también estabas
absolute, and well, you were there too
sola. Yo también, yo decía, claro, yo estoy
alone. Me too, I said, of course, I am
así, pues también, ¿no? Pero no
So, well also, right? But no.
necesito que me digas siempre que esos referentes
I need you to always tell me what those references are.
son los únicos que hay, ¿sabes?
They are the only ones there are, you know?
Pero a la vez lo que me llegaba era como
But at the same time what was coming to me was like
de un contexto súper ajeno al mío.
from a context that is completely foreign to mine.
Productos estadounidenses casi
Almost American products.
siempre, casi siempre
always, almost always
en comunidades de élite,
in elite communities,
mucho dinero,
a lot of money,
¿no? Coches, todo el mundo,
No? Cars, everyone,
más bien una comunidad así como ideal,
rather a community that is somewhat ideal,
como dices, bueno, tampoco así, o sea,
as you say, well, not like that either, I mean,
me parece genial que lo tengan,
I think it's great that they have it.
¿sabes? Pero yo no,
Do you know? But I don't.
no tengo ese acceso, no.
I don't have that access, no.
Pero existirá una comunidad que
But there will be a community that
sí que se acerque un poquito más a algo más
yes, come a little closer to something more
accesible, ¿no? A lo que yo pueda llegar
accessible, right? To what I can reach
a tener y
to have and
también a querer, porque
also to want, because
pues a lo mejor también tampoco es eso
Well, maybe that's not it either.
lo que tú quieres, ¿no?
What you want, right?
Entonces sí, esa diversidad
So yes, that diversity.
me parece súper necesaria.
I find it super necessary.
Sí, ahí igual,
Yes, there the same.
claro, poco a poco notamos
Of course, little by little we notice.
que está cambiando, pero es verdad
that is changing, but it's true
como que hay cierta
as there is a certain
inercia, vamos, no sé si
inertia, come on, I don't know if
hiciéramos un estudio cuantitativo,
we would conduct a quantitative study,
probablemente la mayoría de representaciones
probably most of the representations
son de hombres gays, ¿no?
They are gay men, aren't they?
Que por un lado está bien, porque
That it is good on one hand, because
hay una parte, ¿no?, del
There's a part, right?, of the
colectivo que está
collective that is
teniendo cierta visibilidad, pero
having some visibility, but
claro, ¿cuál, no? La que
Sure, which one, right? The one that
ahora mismo es más
right now it is more
socialmente aceptable.
socially acceptable.
Aquí, de nuevo,
Here, again,
yo hay un poco con mis
I have a little with my
obsesiones, claro, está también la
obsessions, of course, there's also the
parte industrial, ¿no?, de
industrial part, right?, of
interesa
it matters
desde un punto de vista comercial,
from a commercial point of view,
pero hasta qué punto se asume en
but to what extent is it accepted in
riesgos de contar historias
risks of storytelling
verdaderamente diferentes, ¿no?, y salirnos
truly different, right?, and go out of ourselves
de los cauces, porque es verdad
of the channels, because it is true
que en muchas series mainstream
that in many mainstream series
en los últimos años hay algún
In recent years there is some
personaje gay, pero
gay character, but
podría haber otro tipo de
there could be another type of
identidad, algún otro tipo de variable,
identity, some other type of variable,
no sólo eso, sino
not only that, but
qué tipo de desarrollo narrativo tiene el
What type of narrative development does it have?
personaje gay, ¿no? En plan,
gay character, right? Like,
en algunas series es como que está
In some series, it's like it's there.
asumido que ese personaje
assuming that character
va a vivir una vida de desgracia, ¿no?
He's going to live a life of misery, isn't he?
Me acuerdo de física
I remember physics.
química, ¿no?, que alguien tiene
Chemistry, right? That someone has.
que morir, el gay, pero aquella
to die, the gay, but that one
película, Mentiras y gordas,
Movie, Lies and Fat.
esta, ¿quién muere? El gay. Y hace
This, who dies? The gay one. And it makes
no muchos años era esta serie de Telecinco,
Not many years ago, this was a series from Telecinco.
Vivir sin permiso, que han metido al chico
Living without permission, they have put the boy in.
este de Cuéntame haciendo tan bien de gay
This is Cuéntame doing so well as a gay.
y, qué casualidad, acaba muriendo
and, what a coincidence, ends up dying
al cabo de unos episodios, ¿no? Ya hemos
After a few episodes, right? We've already
cumplido la cuota, pues ya lo podemos matar
Quota fulfilled, so we can kill him now.
y la pareja como que enloquecía
and the couple seemed to go crazy
o algo así, ¿no? Entonces, bueno,
or something like that, right? So, well,
hay realmente interés y
there is really interest and
empatía y, por otra parte, hay
empathy and, on the other hand, there is
verdadera voluntad de arriesgar, ¿no?,
true willingness to take risks, right?
de ofrecer verdaderamente, bueno,
truly offering, well,
otros relatos y otras miradas.
other stories and other perspectives.
Clar, em fa pensar, també, com
Of course, it makes me think, too, how
no només la comunitat representada,
not only the represented community,
sinó a quina comunitat ens estem
but to which community are we belonging?
dirigint, ¿no?, a l'hora de crear aquestes
directing, right?, when it comes to creating these
obres audiovisuals, perquè
audiovisual works, because
ara pensava en aquesta pel·lícula del 2015,
I was just thinking about this movie from 2015,
Stonewall, que és una
Stonewall, which is a
pel·lícula que ficcionalitza
film that fictionalizes
les protestes d'Stonewall del 69
the Stonewall protests of '69
i estava protagonitzada per un actor
and was starring an actor
cis i blanc. Es va
yes and white. It went
iniciar una campanya de boicot a les xarxes,
start a boycott campaign on social media,
criticant que s'haguessin esborrat
criticizing that they had been erased
activistes com la Marsha P. Johnson
activists like Marsha P. Johnson
i el director de la pel·lícula va
and the director of the movie goes
dir que era perquè la
say it was because the
pel·lícula no només era per la comunitat
the movie was not only for the community
gai, sinó també per la gent
gay, but also for the people
hetero. Més enllà
hetero. Beyond
de l'anècdota d'aquesta pel·lícula,
from the anecdote of this movie,
¿creieu que potser va per aquí la
Do you think that maybe it goes this way?
cosa, que és un dels problemes, no?, que en el fons
Thing, which is one of the problems, right?, that deep down
la comunitat de l'audiència
the audience community
a qui s'està dirigint l'obra és
who the work is aimed at is
heterosexual?
heterosexual?
Sí, a ver, en el caso de esta
Yes, let's see, in the case of this.
pel·li, además fue como muy flagrante,
The movie was also very blatant.
¿no? Vamos a hacer una pel·li de Stonewall.
No? We're going to make a Stonewall movie.
Y el protagonista es hetero, ¿no?
And the protagonist is straight, right?
A mí personalmente, esto es una
Personally, this is a
opinión personal, me parece que está
personal opinion, it seems to me that it is
bien como intentar ganar el
well as trying to win it
espacio de lo mainstream, ¿no?, que al final
space of the mainstream, right?, which in the end
haya representaciones
there are representations
de la comunidad que hasta la vean
from the community that they see it until.
en mi pueblo, que la vean mis padres, que la vean
in my village, let my parents see it, let them see it
todo el mundo, ¿no? Pero
Everyone, right? But
siempre con ese punto un poco de
always with that little bit of
empatía, ¿no?, y de
empathy, right?, and of
verdadero interés, es decir, porque al final
true interest, that is to say, because in the end
si para
if stops
llegar a ese público mainstream
reach that mainstream audience
estás utilizando el héroe
you are using the hero
heterosexual, ¿no?, ¿por qué no
heterosexual, right? why not?
es el heterosexual un secundario y aparece
Is the heterosexual a secondary character and appears?
junto a los
next to the
otros personajes?
Other characters?
No sé,
I don't know,
por resumir, creo que
to sum up, I think that
está bien hasta cierto punto ganar ese espacio
It's okay to gain that space up to a certain point.
mainstream, porque creo que ayuda a la
mainstream, because I believe it helps to the
evolución de la sociedad, pero también hay que
evolution of society, but it is also necessary to
hacerlo con tacto, con cuidado,
do it with tact, with care,
y desde un punto de vista
and from a point of view
también integrador, ¿no?, de esa diversidad.
also integrative, right?, of that diversity.
No sólo
Not only
lo simplificamos para quedar
we simplify it to meet
muy bien, ¿no?, y un
very well, isn’t it?, and a
ampliar y agradar simplemente,
expand and please simply,
¿no?, sino, bueno, que también
No? But, well, also.
esas personas a las que nos
those people to whom we
dirigimos
we direct
salgan
let them go out
un poco de su zona de confort mental,
a little bit of their mental comfort zone,
¿no?, y vean otras cosas
"Don't you? And see other things."
y piensen de otras formas.
and they think in other ways.
En el fons
In the background
és una cosa que, com a persones queer,
it's something that, as queer people,
hem estat fent sempre, ¿no?, sortir de la nostra
we have always been doing, right?, stepping out of our own
zona mental per intentar potser
mental zone to try maybe
llegir a vegades entre línies
reading sometimes between the lines
coses que trobàvem en obres
things we found in works
audiovisuals, ja fos per
audiovisuals, whether for
moltes dècades enrere censura
many decades ago censorship
molt més explícita o
much more explicit or
més recentment, ¿no? No sé si, Gloria,
more recently, right? I don't know if, Gloria,
abans parlàvem d'aquest tema, si t'has trobat
We were talking about this topic earlier, if you have encountered it.
en algun moment així d'estar llegint,
at some moment like this of being reading,
d'estar veient alguna cosa
of being watching something
i de notar que tu estaves percebent coses
And I noticed that you were noticing things.
que potser l'altra gent, el públic
that perhaps other people, the audience
heterosexual, no ho estava percebent.
heterosexual, I wasn't noticing it.
Una y mil veces.
One thousand and one times.
Realmente yo creo que es algo
I really believe that it is something.
que todo el tiempo,
that all the time,
a lo que te enfrentas
to what you are facing
todo el tiempo, ¿no? Yo al menos también vengo,
All the time, right? At least I'm coming too.
la verdad que de un contexto bastante
the truth is that from a fairly context
sí heterosexual de mis
yes heterosexual of my
amistades y de cuando crecí,
friendships and of when I grew up,
¿no?, y de mi familia y esto.
Not?, and about my family and this.
Y en cuanto empiezas a ver las primeras
And as soon as you start to see the first ones.
pelis o las pelis ya así como en grupo
movies or the movies already like in a group
y a comentar y a pensar
and to comment and to think
y tú te empiezas
and you start
a cuestionar, ¿será que yo vi una película
to question, could it be that I saw a movie
diferente o este personaje?
Different or this character?
Realmente
Really
yo lo estaba
I was doing it.
dirigiendo hacia esta
directing towards this
historia y al final no era lo que
history and in the end it wasn't what
pasaba, ¿no? Pero de alguna manera
It happened, didn't it? But somehow.
es como que yo creo que
it's like I think that
esos códigos que tú empiezas
those codes that you start
a entender son súper necesarios
to understand are super necessary
para un
for one
bueno, una auto percepción, ¿no?
Well, a self-perception, right?
Que al final ahí
That in the end there.
es donde el punto de partida para todo, ¿no?
It's where the starting point for everything is, right?
Como entender, bueno, yo estoy leyendo estos códigos,
How to understand, well, I am reading these codes,
esto me está interesando y tal
this is intriguing me and so on
y a partir de ahí ver
and from there see
si no te lo está ofreciendo
if he/she is not offering it to you
el referente, de alguna manera
the reference, in some way
ese vacío ya te dice algo, ¿no? Es como
that emptiness already says something to you, doesn't it? It's like
ese vacío ya te hace buscar cómo llenar
that emptiness already makes you seek how to fill it
el agujerito, ¿verdad?
the little hole, right?
Y ahí es donde partes para
And that's where you leave for.
bueno, lo que hablamos de enlazar con una
Well, what we talked about linking with one.
comunidad que sí, donde sí se permita
community that does allow it
ese espacio para la reflexión y para
that space for reflection and for
incluso para el desencuentro, ¿no?
even for the misunderstanding, right?
Porque muchas veces el desencuentro es
Because many times the misunderstanding is
a donde sale la
where does it go out
alianza o la
alliance or the
apertura de la perspectiva que necesitabas
opening of the perspective you needed
entender en ese momento.
understand at that moment.
De fet, abans
In fact, before.
que has demanat si
what you have asked if
a través de s'audiovisual havíem
through the audiovisual we had
arribat a aconseguir una comunitat
achieved a community
realment no des
really not giving
a s'audiovisual, no, perquè no deixa
to the audiovisual, no, because it doesn’t allow.
de ser ficció i no deixa de ser real, vull
to be fiction and it is still real, I want
dir, s'única comunitat real que
to say, the only real community that
arribes a fer és quan és
you reach to do is when it is
cara a cara, quan vas a un lloc, o bueno,
face to face, when you go to a place, or well,
a lo millor online, però xerrant persones
maybe online, but talking to people
reals, ¿no?
real, right?
Que te donen
What do they give you?
una mica més d'informació que la que te puguin donar
a little more information than what they can give you
pues això que deia Ana Gloria abans,
well, that which Ana Gloria was saying earlier,
unes dones d'Estats Units d'un barri ric,
some women from the United States of a wealthy neighborhood,
vull dir, estic pensant ara aquí en
I mean, I'm thinking right now about
The World, per exemple, que és lo que jo mirava quan
The World, for example, that is what I was looking at when
tenia 15 anys, i jo
I was 15 years old, and I
pensava, ok, molt bé, estic veient
I thought, okay, very well, I am seeing.
lesbianes, no sé lo que
lesbians, I don’t know what
era en el meu institut, no ho he vist, però realment
it was in my school, I haven't seen it, but really
jo no soc de Los Angeles i no
I am not from Los Angeles and no
estic forrat i no, no, això
I'm stuffed and no, no, this.
no m'està xerrant gens
he's not talking to me at all
de res meu, no?
You're welcome, right?
Fins que no coneixes gent real, crec que
Until you meet real people, I believe that
no pots generar una comunitat.
you cannot generate a community.
A vegades potser dins l'audiovisual
Sometimes maybe within the audiovisual.
on acabes trobant aquesta comunitat
you end up finding this community
és en els processos de creació, no?
It's in the processes of creation, isn't it?
O sigui, és allà on et trobes amb aquesta gent
So, that's where you meet these people.
real i on de sobte
real and suddenly
la comunitat, si tens la sort de trobar-te
the community, if you are lucky enough to find yourself
amb altres persones també
with other people too
LGTBIQ, doncs pots
LGTBIQ, so you can.
crear coses des d'aquí. Tu, Mars, per
create things from here. You, Mars, for
exemple, que has sigut assessor
example, that you have been an advisor
a la sèrie de BTV Oh My Godge,
in the BTV series Oh My Godge,
no sé si pots explicar una miqueta com
I don't know if you can explain a little how.
funciona. Sí, Oh My Godge
It works. Yes, Oh My Godge
és una sèrie de
it is a series of
joves, de sexualitat i de relacions
youths, sexuality, and relationships
i tenen un procés creatiu
and they have a creative process
molt interessant perquè
very interesting because
tenen un comitè
they have a committee
de joves que és un
of young people that it is a
grup de joves molt divers que
a very diverse group of young people that
utilitzen, bueno, no utilitzen,
they use, well, they don't use,
o sigui que formen part de l'equip
so they are part of the team
creatiu per assessorar
creative to advise
una mica sobre els interessos
a bit about the interests
de les persones joves i també
of young people and also
sobre, bueno,
about, good,
preocupacions que puguin
concerns that may
tenir i ser fidels
to have and to be faithful
realment al públic que s'estan dirigint
really to the audience they are addressing
que en el final és el principal
that in the end is the main one
interessat en
interested in
consumir aquestes coses que l'interpel·lin,
consume these things that challenge him/her,
no? Per tant, és molt interessant
No? Therefore, it's very interesting.
que tota la creació del guió,
that all the creation of the script,
bueno, Mart, això també ho pots explicar tu de fet
Well, Mart, you can explain this too, in fact.
perquè jo he estat d'assessor però tu estàs de guionista
because I have been an advisor but you are a screenwriter
però
but
jo com assessor
I as an advisor
de temes de gènere
on gender issues
dins la cinquena temporada
in the fifth season
crec que va ser, cinquena? Estàs fent
I think it was, fifth? Are you doing?
la sèrie ara, no? Sí. Vale.
The series now, right? Yes. Okay.
El meu paper
My role
era molt xulo formar part
it was really cool to be a part
d'aquest grup on els joves
from this group where the young people
podien anar introduint trames,
they could start introducing plots,
introduint preocupacions, introduint
introducing concerns, introducing
mira,
look,
jo què sé, típica fantasia de
I don't know, typical fantasy of
aquesta sèrie de sexe, doncs hi haurà un trio
this series of sex, so there will be a threesome
i que després de sobte et deien
and then all of a sudden they told you
és que ningú d'aquí ha fet un trio mai
It's just that no one here has ever had a threesome.
i és com, gràcies
And it's like, thank you.
per aquesta píndola de
for this pill of
realitat i realisme que
reality and realism that
va bé, vull dir, ja està, ja no farem
It's fine, I mean, that's it, we won't do it anymore.
una trama de trio perquè no
a love triangle plot why not
d'allò, està bé. Però tu explica'l
That's fine. But you explain it.
el teu si vols, Marta. No,
your yes if you want, Marta. No,
d'això en si tampoc puc explicar molt més
I can't explain much more about that either.
perquè és el mateix, és com involucrar
because it is the same, it is like involving
dins el procés creatiu
within the creative process
gent jove que molts a més també són de la comunitat LGTB
young people, many of whom are also part of the LGTB community
per tant, és com,
therefore, it is like,
seguir amb això, que quan estàs
continue with this, that when you are
creant i en els vostres camps suposo
creating and in your fields I suppose
creant, escrivint, investigant
creating, writing, researching
acaba sent el mateix, poder tenir un espai
it ends up being the same, being able to have a space
segur on investigar aquestes coses sense
sure where to investigate these things without
haver de donar moltes explicacions
having to give many explanations
als teus companys, companyes de feina
to your colleagues, workmates
doncs sempre s'agraeix
then it is always appreciated
bastant, no sé si
quite a bit, I don't know if
us hi he trobat gaire amb el tema de la investigació
I have found you quite involved with the topic of research.
o l'educació. Sí, sí
or education. Yes, yes
de hecho
in fact
según os estaba escuchando
as I was listening to you
sobre todo
above all
pienso en la gente más mayor, en plan
I think about older people, like...
yo me acuerdo
I remember.
pues no voy a decir su nombre
Well, I'm not going to say his name.
pero me acuerdo de una
but I remember one
bueno, prestigiosa
well, prestigious
investigadora ya bastante mayor
researcher already quite older
me preguntaba ¿qué estás investigando?
I was wondering, what are you researching?
yo le contaba el tema de la tesis
I was telling him about the thesis topic.
y me dice ¿y eso? pues tendrás que hablar con psicólogos
and he says to me "and that? well, you'll have to talk to psychologists"
¿no? en plan para entender a los gays
"Right? Like to understand gay people."
y qué cosas les gustan y tal
and what things they like and such
y yo, madre mía
and me, my goodness
claro, pero ella se empecinó mucho
of course, but she was very stubborn
era como ¿cómo puedes decir
It was like, how can you say
que hay algo de cultura homosexual en esa película
that there is some homosexual culture in that movie
si solo salen heterosexuales?
Do only heterosexuals go out?
y yo ahí explicando y explicando
and I there explaining and explaining
hasta que ya cayó Sara Montiel
until Sara Montiel fell too
y un poco
and a little bit
en fin, y anécdotas de esas
In short, and anecdotes like that.
sí he tenido bastantes
yes, I've had quite a few
igual, otro prestigioso historiador
Likewise, another prestigious historian.
me decía Santi ¿qué tal la tesis?
Santi was asking me, "How's the thesis?"
digo pues eso trata
I say, that's what it is about.
sobre los creadores queer del franquismo
about the queer creators of Franco's regime
cómo dialogaban con el
how they dialogued with him
universo de la feminidad y me dice el tío
universe of femininity and the guy tells me
pues mal, en plan si eran gays
well, badly, like if they were gay
pues mal, con las mujeres fatal
Well, bad, with women terrible.
entonces ese tipo
so that guy
de situaciones vamos constantemente
we are constantly going through situations
y por supuesto tampoco
and of course neither
puedes dar una respuesta muy
can you give a very response
¿no? porque
No? Because.
son figuras muy de prestigio
they are very prestigious figures
pero si te das cuenta eso de hasta
but if you realize that "up to"
qué punto todavía
what point still
falta ¿no? como llegar cierto aire
There's a gap, isn't there? Like a certain air coming in.
un poco renovador
a bit refreshing
¿no? a algunos sitios
Not? To some places.
sí
yes
para mí esto de los espacios seguros es
for me this thing about safe spaces is
yo lo viví en dos vertientes
I experienced it in two aspects.
¿no? porque de alguna manera he tenido
"Right? Because in some way I have had."
trabajos también en el audiovisual
work also in the audiovisual field
y ahí
and there
digamos
let's say
hay como
there is like
una cosa muy rara en donde se valida
a very strange thing where it is validated
que algunas personas sí que tengan
that some people do have
una sexualidad diversa pero otras no
a diverse sexuality but others not
por ejemplo era como muy fácil
for example it was very easy
encontrar
to find
periodistas
journalists
perdón gays y entonces eso
sorry gays and so that
estaba súper validado de hecho se hacían bromas
It was super validated, in fact, jokes were made about it.
no sé qué pero dentro del ámbito
I don't know what, but within the scope.
había también como una cultura muy
there was also like a very culture
de
of
los camarógrafos y los no sé qué
the cameramen and the I don't know what
y tal y esto era
and such and this was
era como súper raro si un camarógrafo
it was super weird if a cameraman
hubiese dicho bueno pues yo soy gay sabes
I would have said well, I'm gay you know.
eso no hubiera estado tan validado
that wouldn't have been so validated
igual en mi caso como
similar in my case as
yo era la única mujer editora y
I was the only female editor and
era como se me veía como no
It was like how I was seen or not.
la princesita aquí de hecho me tenían
the little princess here actually had me
apodos en plan en ese sentido
nicknames in that sense
y de alguna manera era
and in some way it was
hubiese estado súper mal como venir y decir
it would have been super bad to come and say
eh que soy lesbiana
Hey, I'm a lesbian.
y de hecho fue un choque para
and in fact it was a shock for
todos como que luego se llegó a
everyone as if then it reached
aceptar pero muy raro y después en el
accept but very strange and then in the
ámbito educativo que hablabas
educational field you were talking about
siempre como
always eat
con muchas pinzas no a lo mejor
with many clamps, maybe not
en de nuevo en mi contexto
in again in my context
en mi contexto me encontré
in my context I found myself
en mi país que me decían
In my country, what they told me
siempre cuidado con esos temas
always be careful with those topics
en el aula que los niños
in the classroom that the children
que tal no vayas a influenciar esto
I hope you don't influence this.
de lo otro incluso de tus propias
of the other even of your own
docentes sabes que te están formando y dices pero
teachers know that they are training you and you say but
si al revés si lo que estamos buscando
if the opposite is what we are looking for
es como encontrar una manera de
it's like finding a way to
sensibilizar a la población de que esto
raise awareness among the population that this
está integrado que está bien que sientan
it is integrated that it is good that they feel
lo que quieran sentir sabes
whatever they want to feel, you know
que lo del
that of the
espai segurs es una
safe spaces is a
fantasía no es una cosa
fantasy is not a thing
que existe pero no
that exists but does not
es muy difícil y también
it's very difficult and also
que todos los equipos
that all the teams
sigan del colectivo LGTB no es una garantía
Being part of the LGTB community is not a guarantee.
de que sea un espacio seguro
that it is a safe space
porque no todo el mundo piensa lo mismo
because not everyone thinks the same
en el mismo colectivo
in the same group
es un momento delicado sobre todo
It's a delicate moment above all.
a nivel profesional
at a professional level
en una tabla de guionistas
in a table of screenwriters
és com faig feina, és un moment delicat
It's how I do my work, it's a delicate moment.
haver-te de callar
having to be silent
o haver-te de
or having to
bueno, d'aguantar
well, of enduring
certes coses que dius, això no
certain things you say, this is not one of them
és terrible per lo que sigui
It is terrible for whatever reason.
perquè sigui LGTBI fòbic
to be LGTBI phobic
o perquè sigui masclista o racista, vull dir
or because it is sexist or racist, I mean
en general, sempre
in general, always
tot veu de lo mateix i
everything sees the same and
jo crec que en aquests contextos, el millor és
I believe that in these contexts, the best is
avaluar una mica en quina posició estàs tu
assess a little where you stand
per xerrar i també
to chat and also
cercar persones aliades
look for allied people
sempre hi ha algú aliat
there is always someone allied
en els equips
in the teams
a qui li puguis explicar
to whom you can explain
les teves inquietuds i en qui
your worries and in whom
puguis fer una mica de comunitat
you can build a bit of community
és que en el final sempre estem fent, sempre
It's just that in the end we are always doing, always.
fem això, no? I una cosa que també
Let's do this, shall we? And one more thing as well.
crec que va molt bé és anar fent xarxa
I think it's very good to network.
vull dir, anar fent xarxa amb professionals
I mean, networking with professionals.
amb qui t'entens
who do you get along with
siguin del col·lectiu o no
whether they are from the collective or not
perquè en el final és una qüestió
because in the end it is a matter
ideològica quasi també, vull dir que
almost ideological too, I mean that
no sé, hi ha gais de
I don't know, there are gays from
ciutadans, vull dir, potser
citizens, I mean, perhaps
no faria jo una gran sèrie amb un gai de
I wouldn't make a great series with a gay guy from
ciutadans, no? Vull dir, o potser sí
Citizens, right? I mean, or maybe yes.
no sé, seria una visió molt
I don't know, it would be a very compelling vision.
curiosa per aprendre
curious to learn
però no sé, vull dir. Curiosa, sens dubte
but I don't know, I mean. Curious, without a doubt
jo crec. En el fons
I believe. Deep down.
és com trobar com les nostres microcomunitats
it is like finding how our micro-communities
potser, no? Dins d'aquestes comunitats
maybe, right? Within these communities
Seguint en aquesta línia
Following in this line
el que dèiem, no? Per poder treballar
What we were saying, right? In order to be able to work.
en equips potser majoritàriament queers
in teams perhaps predominantly queer
o com a mínim més propers ideològicament
or at least ideologically closer
a nosaltres, sembla que
to us, it seems that
ho hem de fer fora d'aquests
we have to do it outside of these
circuits més mainstreams de l'audiovisual
more mainstream circuits of the audiovisual
això sovint vol dir pressupostos
this often means budgets
més baixos, menys visibilitat
lower, less visibility
i potser és la pregunta més difícil
And perhaps it is the hardest question.
de totes, però creieu que és important
of all, but do you think it is important?
conquerir el mainstream
conquer the mainstream
o és millor treballar
or is it better to work
els marges més lliurement?
the margins more freely?
Es pot combinar les dues
It is possible to combine the two.
opcions? Es poden combinar les dues?
Options? Can the two be combined?
Difícil aquesta
This one is difficult.
És ben difícil, sí
It is quite difficult, yes.
però
but
com a tot, jo crec que sempre és necessari
Like with everything, I believe it is always necessary.
si
yes
el que vas a hacer es impregnar, normalizar
What you are going to do is impregnate, normalize.
y visibilizar, yo creo que de alguna manera
and to make visible, I believe that somehow
hay que entrar en todos los sitios
you have to enter everywhere
esto para mí es
this for me is
fundamental
fundamental
el mainstream es
the mainstream is
algo que tiene un alcance
something that has a scope
distinto al final, sabes?
different in the end, you know?
Y es inevitable y es lo que
And it is inevitable and it is what
primero te llega a nivel de música
first it reaches you at a musical level
a nivel de audiovisual y yo creo que es importante
in terms of audiovisual and I think it is important
que lo que sea que aparezca ahí
whatever appears there
termine no siendo peligroso al menos
I end up not being dangerous at least.
¿verdad? Y que
Right? And what?
se trabaje desde una
work is done from a
manera más libre también
more free way too
paralelo a esto, aunque sea
parallel to this, even if it is
con presupuestos distintos, ¿no? O con otro tipo
with different budgets, right? Or with another type?
de realidades
of realities
que también viene siendo
that is also being
súper necesario porque al final
super necessary because in the end
es trabajando
is working
de manera local, donde puedes
locally, where you can
como reivindicar espacios
how to reclaim spaces
luchas, comunidades diferentes
struggles, different communities
un poco lo que hemos
a little of what we have
hablado de
spoken of
poder sacar casos particulares
to be able to take out particular cases
¿verdad? Que no podrías
Right? That you couldn't.
llegar a sacar, o sea, eso es
to manage to take out, that is it
una utopía
a utopia
decir que eso puede llegar a ser
to say that this can turn out to be
mainstream, pero en la medida
mainstream, but to a certain extent
en que se empieza a asomar un poquito
in which it begins to peek out a little bit
un poquito, un poquito, de alguna
a little bit, a little bit, of some
manera va a llegar como a
way will come as to
las personas a las que tiene que llegar
the people you need to reach
para que luego esas personas a su vez
so that then those people in turn
tengan contacto con otras y yo creo que ahí
have contact with others and I think that there
es donde se va a ir como hilando la telaraña
it's where it's going to weave the spiderweb
que se necesita
what is needed
Sí, a ver
Yes, let's see.
Sí, yo creo que es importante
Yes, I believe it is important.
conquistar esos
conquer those
espacios en el ámbito
spaces in the field
mainstream
mainstream
aunque, claro
although, of course
también depende un poco de
it also depends a little on
cada creador, cada creadora
each creator, each female creator
el proyecto específico que sea
the specific project that it is
en general en el ámbito mainstream yo creo
In general, in the mainstream field, I believe.
como apuntabas, la libertad
as you pointed out, freedom
de expresión
of expression
incluso solo, aunque solo sea
even alone, even if it's just alone
por términos presupuestarios
for budgetary terms
puede condicionar más
It can condition more.
la obra y el resultado final
the work and the final result
entonces
then
no sé, yo creo que dependiendo de la obra
I don't know, I think it depends on the work.
que se quiera crear y a quién
who wants to be created and for whom
se quiere llegar
it is wanted to arrive
no sé
I don't know.
como que entiendo que
as I understand that
para cada circuito
for each circuit
hay productos
there are products
preferentes, no sé cómo decir
preferences, I don't know how to say it
o más que productos, obras
or more than products, works
sobre todo si es algo más
especially if it is something more
personal, arriesgado
personal, risky
tampoco veo mal ese
I don't see that one as bad either.
ese espacio más
that space more
independiente porque probablemente vas a llegar más
independent because you will probably achieve more
lejos que haciendo ciertas concesiones
far from making certain concessions
para acabar en A3 media
to end up in A3 media
no sé, por decir una determinada
I don't know, so to speak of a certain one.
plataforma, ¿no?
platform, right?
y a lo mejor, bueno, en ese momento no llegas
And maybe, well, at that moment you don't arrive.
a lo mainstream, pero es una obra
to the mainstream, but it is a work
tan valiosa, interesante, que poco
so valuable, interesting, how little
a poco el tiempo la acaba
Soon the time will end it.
poniendo en su sitio, ¿no? que no será
putting it in its place, right? it won’t be
la primera vez que muchas
the first time that many
obras que en su momento se estrenaron
works that premiered at the time
casi de tapadillo, muy
almost on the sly, very
bueno, de aquella
well, from that time
manera, luego han acabado siendo
way, then they have ended up being
de culto y teniendo un seguimiento
of cult status and having a following
muy importante, pienso
very important, I think
tiene que ver y a la vez no, pero por ejemplo
it has to do and at the same time it doesn't, but for example
una película, ¿no?, que es como de culto
A movie, right?, which is like a cult film.
el cine español, Arrebato, en su día
the Spanish cinema, Arrebato, in its day
no la vio casi nadie, ¿no?
Almost nobody saw her, right?
y ahí está reconocida como lo que
and there it is recognized as what
es y con el tiempo
is and with time
con toda la invisibilización que ha habido de lo
with all the invisibility that has existed regarding it
queer en Torno a Zulueta, el director y tal
queer around Zulueta, the director and so on
bueno, poco a poco se va viendo
Well, little by little it is becoming visible.
se van rescatando cosas, entonces
They are rescuing things, then.
no sé, tengo ahí un poco como
I don't know, I have a little bit like there.
respuesta mixta en este caso
mixed response in this case
Sí, yo no creo que sea una cosa mejor
Yes, I don't think it's a better thing.
que la otra, creo que
that the other, I think that
las dos son necesarias y
both are necessary and
que
that
sí que és problemàtic, però
it is indeed problematic, but
que només siguem relegades
that we are only relegated
als marges
at the margins
a lo underground, ¿no?
in an underground way, right?
això sí que és problemàtic, que només puguem fer
this is indeed problematic, that we can only do
una cosa, vull dir, el mainstream en el final
One thing, I mean, the mainstream in the end.
és un espai que ens pertany
it is a space that belongs to us
a totes i que per tant, pues tothom
to everyone and therefore, well everyone
hi hauria de poder tenir accés, i per altra
I should be able to have access, and on the other hand
banda jo crec que també és una qüestió de llenguatges
band I think it is also a matter of languages
el mainstream és un idioma, vull dir, és com
the mainstream is a language, I mean, it's like
decidir fer poesia o fer prosa
decide whether to write poetry or prose
vull dir, es
I mean, it is
depèn, hi ha obres que mereixen
it depends, there are works that deserve
o que s'ajusten
or that adjust
en el format dels mainstream
in the format of the mainstream
i n'hi ha que no, i
and there are some that don’t, and
també s'ha de tenir en compte que lo mainstream és
it should also be taken into account that the mainstream is
més car, i que com més car, més mans
more expensive, and that the more expensive, the more hands
hi passen, més
they pass there, more
persones per sobre teu i més
people above you and more
ajustaments
adjustments
has de fer per
you have to do for
contentar a tothom
to please everyone
per tant, pues és una qüestió de posar
therefore, it is a matter of putting
en balança fins a on
in balance up to where
estàs disposat a cedir i fins a on no
are you willing to give in and to what extent not
i fins a on te compensa
And how far does it compensate you?
entrar en aquest circuit
enter this circuit
o no, segurament Marta
oh no, surely Marta
tu també d'això tens bastant a dir
you also have quite a bit to say about this
amb sa teva trajectòria com a guionista
with your trajectory as a screenwriter
Ara canviem els papers
Now we switch roles.
eh, Quimars?
Eh, Quimars?
No, sí, totalment, és jugar aquest equilibri
No, yes, totally, it's about playing this balance.
tota l'estona
all the time
de fins a quin punt
to what extent
prioritzes que això arribi a molta gent
you prioritize that this reaches a lot of people
i que estigui
and that it be
a les pantalles de molta gent
on the screens of many people
una cosa que potser fins llavors
one thing that perhaps until then
no hi era, fins a quin punt conquereixes aquest
I wasn't there, to what extent do you conquer this?
espai, encara que sigui
space, even if it is
a un preu una mica alt, a vegades
at a slightly high price, sometimes
fins a quin punt aquell projecte és molt
to what extent that project is very
personal i necessites
personal and needs
que s'expliqui tan fidelment
that it is explained so faithfully
com tu el volies explicar
as you wanted to explain it
realment, també a l'hora
really, also at the time
de veure coses i de llegir
of seeing things and reading
coses, estem sempre anant als dos
things, we are always going to both
llocs, no suposo, estàs mirant
places, I suppose you are looking
l'última sèrie que ha sortit d'Amazon Prime
the latest series that has come out on Amazon Prime
i alhora també estàs mirant alguna
and at the same time you are also looking at something
cosa que t'ha recomanat algú
something that someone has recommended to you
i intentes arribar des d'allà, perquè
and you try to get there from there, because
si no
if not
és molt molt difícil
it is very very difficult
El que sí que crec que és important
What I do believe is important
tenir en ment és que la tele pública
to bear in mind is that public television
la paga tothom i que per tant tothom
everyone pays and therefore everyone
ha de tenir accés a la representada
must have access to the represented
allà, això ho va dir
there, that was said
Nona Anglada per cert
Nona Anglada by the way
en aquest podcast
in this podcast
Perdón
Sorry.
cuando hablabas de este tema de los
When you were talking about this topic of the
recursos a nivel de mainstream que hay más
mainstream-level resources that there are more of
y también hay más
and there is also more
alcance
scope
tiro aquí la
I throw here the
la pinzita esta de
the tweezers are from
¿qué piensan a nivel de si
What do they think at the level of if?
eso equivale a más responsabilidad
that amounts to more responsibility
también? O sea, si a nivel de
Also? I mean, if at the level of
tú estar planteándote algo
you are considering something
que sabes que va a llegar a
that you know is going to arrive at
X audiencia, un número
X audience, a number
de audiencia
of audience
te
you
equivale, o sea, te supone una
it means, that is to say, it entails a
responsabilidad que a lo mejor
responsibility that maybe
también
also
es importante evaluar, no?
It's important to evaluate, isn't it?
O no, o simplemente
Oh no, or simply
es decir, la responsabilidad a la hora
that is to say, the responsibility at the time
crear la tienes igualmente, ¿no? A la hora
You have the creation equally, don't you? At the hour.
de comprometerte con un proyecto, a la hora de contar
to commit to a project, when it comes to telling
algo y de querer expresarlo, ¿no?
Something and wanting to express it, right?
No sé qué piensan.
I don't know what they think.
Yo ahí, no sé,
I don't know there,
como decía antes, un poco depende
As I said before, it depends a bit.
del caso, porque
of the case, because
a veces
sometimes
creo que
I believe that
excesivos escrúpulos
excessive scruples
en torno a la responsabilidad
around responsibility
pueden acabar blanqueando una obra
they can end up whitewashing a work
tanto, ¿no? Al final, toda narración
so much, right? In the end, every narration
depende del conflicto, de que haya
it depends on the conflict, on whether there is one
tensiones, de que haya contradicciones, ¿no?
tensions, that there are contradictions, right?
Entonces, puede, en algunos
So, it may, in some
casos, que llegue a haber,
cases, that there may be,
no sé, algunos personajes tan blanqueados
I don't know, some characters are so whitewashed.
que casi parezca biografías
that almost seem like biographies
de santos, ¿no? Más que
of saints, right? More than
una serie dramática. Entonces,
a dramatic series. So,
hay que tener responsabilidad,
one must be responsible,
pero también saber que estamos
but also to know that we are
en el terreno de la ficción.
in the realm of fiction.
Y a mí también, bueno, esto ya es una
And me too, well, this is already one.
cuestión de gustos personales.
matter of personal taste.
Casi esos personajes
Almost those characters
más contradictorios o
more contradictory or
turbios, o que no tienen las
murky, or that do not have the
cosas tan claras, desde un punto de vista
things so clear, from a point of view
narrativo, como espectador, me pueden
narrative, as a spectator, they can me
incluso interesar más que alguien
even being more interested than someone
que tiene todo clarísimo. Obra
that has everything very clear. Work
perfectamente en todas las cosas
perfectly in all things
que hace en su vida, desde que se levanta hasta que se acuesta.
what he does in his life, from the time he gets up until he goes to bed.
Porque al final
Because in the end
vemos ficciones, ¿no?
we see fictions, don't we?
Buscando relatos,
Searching for stories,
buscando, no sé, experiencias,
looking for, I don't know, experiences,
distintos puntos de vista.
different points of view.
Hay que tener en cuenta
It must be taken into account.
esa responsabilidad, por supuesto,
that responsibility, of course,
no hacer obras que sean
not to do works that are
intencionadamente dañinas, ¿no?
Deliberately harmful, right?
Pero también jugar un poco con esos
But also play a little with those.
claroscuros es interesante para tomar
Chiaroscuro is interesting to take.
incluso conciencia de cómo obramos nosotros,
even awareness of how we act,
hacer cierto tipo
to make a certain type
de autocrítica a veces,
of self-criticism sometimes,
bueno, dentro
well, inside
de ciertas comunidades.
of certain communities.
No sé,
I don't know,
creo que puede ser positivo
I think it could be positive.
incorporar
to incorporate
esos claroscuros para que no se produzca
those chiaroscuro so that it does not happen
ese excesivo blanqueamiento, ¿no?
that excessive whitening, right?
Y porque al final
And because in the end
estén fent ficció, estén fent entreteniment,
they are making fiction, they are making entertainment,
y estén fent productes interessants.
and they are making interesting products.
En el final, m'he tregat uns
In the end, I took off some.
bodrios a vegades, només perquè hi sortien
crap sometimes, just because they were in it
quatre persones del col·lectiu que dius, bueno,
four people from the group you mentioned, well,
a veure... Som l'audiència més agraïda,
let's see... We are the most grateful audience,
jo crec. Sí, però fins a un punt.
I believe. Yes, but up to a point.
Vull dir, jo, Pous, per exemple,
I mean, I, Pous, for example,
no l'he suportat. M'assembla a una sèrie
I can't stand it. It reminds me of a series.
adolcorada, m'assembla a una sèrie
sweetened, it looks like a series to me
que no...
that no...
que és previsible i que no m'interessa
what is predictable and what does not interest me
i no la miraré, perquè no...
and I won't look at her, because no...
per molt de col·lectiu trans
for a strong trans community
precisament aquesta sèrie sí que
precisely this series does indeed
fa bé de representar una comunitat,
it is good to represent a community,
i tal. Però m'assembla avorridíssima,
and such. But I find it very boring.
per tant, doncs, no sé,
therefore, I don't know,
no la miraré. Té a veure una mica
I won't look at it. It has to do with a bit.
amb el que comentaves abans de la pluralitat,
with what you mentioned earlier about plurality,
jo crec, no? Si en una sèrie, en una pel·lícula
I think, right? If in a series, in a movie.
hi ha només un personatge LGTBI,
there is only one LGTBI character,
tota la responsabilitat recau
all the responsibility falls
sobre aquell personatge, no? I si està representat
about that character, right? And if he is represented
d'una manera o d'una altra, és com que això
One way or another, it's like this.
és representatiu de tota
it is representative of all
l'obra. El mateix passa, en el fons,
the work. The same happens, basically,
quan estem creant, no? Si tota la...
When we are creating, right? If all the...
anava a dir parrilla televisiva, però hi ha
I was going to say TV schedule, but there is
qui mira parrilles televisives, no?
Who looks at TV schedules, right?
Si tot el catàleg d'una plataforma,
If the entire catalog of a platform,
hi ha una obra
there is a work
d'aquell tipus, doncs, de sobte,
of that kind, then, suddenly,
sembla que necessitem aquest referent
it seems that we need this reference
modèlic, potser, no? O un final
model, perhaps, right? Or an end
feliç. S'ha parlat molt dels finals feliços, no?
happy. There's been a lot of talk about happy endings, hasn't there?
Però si hi ha
But if there is
molta més varietat, tant dins de les
much more variety, both within the
comunitats representades com dins de la comunitat
communities represented as within the community
de creadores i creadores, doncs,
of creators and creators, then,
suposo que és
I suppose it is.
on tenim marge per fer coses
we have room to do things
guais, coses xules.
cool, awesome things.
Exacto. Jo crec que això és
Exactly. I think that this is
molt important, és a dir, en un context
very important, that is, in a context
en què, imaginem-nos, no
in what, let us imagine, no
hi hagués cap tipus d'imatge,
if there were any kind of image,
és clar, és que te la jugues
It's clear, it's because you're taking a risk.
com una carta, no? A molt poques cartes.
Like a letter, right? To very few letters.
És que estàs arribant
It's just that you are arriving.
amb la teva obra a determinats
with your work in certain
llocs, és clar,
places, of course,
has de pensar més en els possibles
You have to think more about the possibilities.
efectes. Penso més des d'un punt de vista
effects. I think more from a perspective
històric, no? Però la contemporaneïtat,
historic, right? But the contemporaneity,
que sí que hi ha cada vegada més
that yes there are more and more
pluralitat, jo estic a favor
plurality, I am in favor.
que es desenvolupi això més,
that this develops further,
sobretot, com diu Marx,
above all, as Marx says,
perquè l'obra és
because the work is
interessant, no?
Interesting, isn't it?
¿Cómo podemos hacer que la obra sea más rica,
How can we make the work richer,
más interesante, sobre todo?
more interesting, above all?
No sé, pienso,
I don't know, I think,
no sé, pues, es que hay gays
I don't know, well, it's just that there are gay people.
perfectos, ¿no? Viendo
perfect, right? Seeing
algunas ficciones, es como,
some fictions, it's like,
no sé, esa persona es
I don't know, that person is
totalmente blanca y pura
completely white and pure
en todo lo que hace, a lo mejor es maravilloso
In everything he/she does, perhaps it is wonderful.
ese personaje en determinados
that character in certain
aspectos de su vida, pero no sé,
aspects of his life, but I don't know,
a lo mejor con su pareja o con,
maybe with their partner or with,
yo qué sé, con alguien,
I don't know, with someone,
un viejo amigo se portó mal en el pasado,
an old friend misbehaved in the past,
¿no? Y al final,
No? And in the end,
es que es así el ser humano, ¿no?
That's just how human beings are, right?
Vamos, no sé,
Come on, I don't know,
igual hay alguien que conozcáis que es perfecto,
maybe there is someone you know who is perfect,
pero todos tenemos nuestros
but we all have our own
puntos mejores, nuestras cosas peores,
better points, our worse things,
y yo creo que eso también
and I think that too
se puede contener
it can be contained
en una determinada ficción.
in a certain fiction.
En el fons, també pensava, de fet,
In the end, I was also thinking, in fact,
en la cita que tu ens deies
in the quote that you were telling us
al principi quan parlàvem de la comunitat, no?
At the beginning when we talked about the community, right?
Com en aquesta importància de la fragilitat
As in this importance of fragility.
i la vulnerabilitat per teixir
and the vulnerability to weave
xarxa, per tant, en el moment en què veus
network, therefore, at the moment you see
altra gent que també,
other people who also,
d'aquestes esquerdes, no?, com
from these cracks, right?, how
tu mateixa, és quan pots
yourself, it's when you can
crear, potser, aquestes xarxes.
create, perhaps, these networks.
Claro, i justament en
Of course, and just in that
això en particular, crec que
this in particular, I believe that
ve la riquesa, no?, del poder,
Here comes the wealth, right?, of power,
perquè hi ha moltes barreres en aquest
because there are many barriers in this
món, i estem parlant
world, and we are talking
d'aquestes en particular, però després
of these in particular, but later
hi ha altres barreres també de població
there are other barriers also of population
diversa, no?,
diverse, right?
a nivell d'algú amb discapacitat,
at the level of someone with a disability,
no?, una persona que
no?, a person who
racialitzada, una persona,
racialized, a person,
llavors, d'incorporar aquestes
then, to incorporate these
diversitat, ser capaç d'incorporar
diversity, being able to incorporate
aquesta diversitat dins de la diversitat,
this diversity within diversity,
em sembla que és on està tota la riquesa,
I think that's where all the wealth is.
no?, perquè ets capaç en aquest moment
No? Because you are capable at this moment.
de profunditzar d'una manera molt, molt
to deepen in a way that is very, very
més real, molt més prop de tu,
more real, much closer to you,
i molt més ric, que et permet
and much richer, that allows you
entendre més coses. A més, no sé, jo
understand more things. Besides, I don't know, I
vaig tenir en la meva educació, jo vaig estudiar
I had in my education, I studied.
també per a l'educació per a nois
also for education for boys
amb necessitats especials, i resulta que
with special needs, and it turns out that
una docent, a més, docent, va venir a
a teacher, moreover, a teacher, came to
parlar-nos sobre la població sorda, no?,
Talking to us about the deaf population, right?
de persones sordes, i en aquest cas
of deaf people, and in this case
ens deia, és clar, cal tenir
he told us, of course, we need to have
compte en parlar de persones sordes o
be careful when talking about deaf people or
ensenyar de persones homosexuals a
to teach about homosexual people to
persones sordes o de persones de la
deaf people or of people from the
comunitat queer, perquè ells estan més
queer community, because they are more
vulnerables, i jo he pensat,
vulnerable, and I have thought,
és clar, llavors ella s'estava plantejant
it's clear, then she was contemplating
de no mostrar-los uns productes que
not showing them some products that
volíem ensenyar a nivell audiovisual,
we wanted to teach at an audiovisual level,
perquè deia, no, però ells són més
because I said, no, but they are more
vulnerables a tot això, saps? És molt fort,
vulnerable to all this, you know? It's very intense,
és clar, és molt fort, i és aquí on ve el
it's clear, it's very strong, and it's here where it comes the
desconeixement, la ignorància, i no, i la
ignorance, the ignorance, and no, and the
necessitat és al revés, de poder entendre
need is the opposite of being able to understand
que tot està integrat amb tot. I les
that everything is integrated with everything. And the
pobres persones sordes del col·lectiu
poor deaf people of the collective
LGTB, que també es mereixen un
LGBT, who also deserve a
poquet el seu... No ho veus rebre l'LGTB-fàbia,
little his... Don't you see the LGBT-phobia?
el capacitisme, de tot. Jo hi volia
ableism, everything. I wanted to.
afegir una cosa, en plan, perquè ho
add one thing, like, why it
estava pensant, hi ha un eix identitari o
I was thinking, is there an identity axis or
cultural, no sé què opinareu vosaltres,
cultural, I don't know what you all will think,
que és la qüestió de classe, és a dir, en
what is the class issue, that is, in
moltes ficcions, sobretot en l'àmbit
many fictions, especially in the field
mainstream, és com que s'ha esborrat, és a
mainstream, it's like it has been erased, it is to
dir, parlem de gènere, de sexualitat, no
say, let's talk about gender, about sexuality, right?
sé, diferents variables, però la qüestió
I know, different variables, but the question
de classe, perquè fins i tot dins del
of class, because even within the
col·lectiu, no és el mateix ser
collective, it is not the same to be
una persona pobra o amb pocs
a poor person or with few
recursos, les dificultats que
resources, the difficulties that
enfrontes a la teva vida són diferents,
the challenges in your life are different,
els llocs als quals pots arribar, bé,
the places you can reach, well,
a vegades no sempre són els mateixos, no?
Sometimes they are not always the same, right?
I és una cosa com que està una mica, no
And it's like it's a little bit, isn't it?
ho sé, a vegades ho veig com
I know, sometimes I see it as
massa difús. I de fet, no ho sé, igual
too diffuse. And in fact, I don't know, maybe
això és massa... Però quan veiem
this is too much... But when we see
aquestes ficcions com de gent queer
these fictions like queer people
rica i tal, en el fons és com el
rich and such, deep down it's like the
vell escapisme, no?, del cinema clàssic, de la
old escapism, right?, of classic cinema, of the
que som pobres, paguem el nostre dineret
that we are poor, we pay our little money
per entrar al cinema i somiar que som
to enter the cinema and dream that we are
rics i tal, però no ens oblidem, no? Jo a
rich and such, but let's not forget, right? I to
vegades ho dic als estudiants, és
sometimes I tell the students, it is
veritat, tenim els nostres mòbils i els
truth, we have our mobiles and them
portàtils i la compte de Netflix, però
laptops and the Netflix account, but
ens costa el mateix pagar un
it costs us the same to pay one
alquiler o fins i tot trobar
rent or even find
al·lèrgia, igual que una persona de
allergy, just like a person from
certa posició socioeconòmica, no sé si
certain socioeconomic position, I don't know if
les sèries actuals, per exemple, o el cinema
the current series, for example, or cinema
actual,
current
està tenint en compte això moltes
is taking this into account a lot
vegades a l'hora d'abordar, bé, qüestions
sometimes when addressing, well, issues
relacionades amb l'àmbit queer.
related to the queer field.
Sens dubte, el tema de la
Undoubtedly, the topic of the
interseccionalitat està molt, molt
intersectionality is very, very
pendent de la representació, no només de
dependent on representation, not only of
la JVQ+, en general, sinó també de les
the JVQ+, in general, but also of the
comunitats en si, no?, de quin tipus de
communities in themselves, right?, of what type of
comunitats s'estan representant. M'encantaria
communities are being represented. I would love it
estar moltes més hores parlant amb
to spend many more hours talking with
tots vosaltres i seguint aquesta
all of you and following this
conversa, però hem d'anar acabant i,
conversation, but we must be wrapping up and,
doncs, ho farem amb una cançó de la Fiona
Well, we will do it with a song by Fiona.
Appel.
Call.
Estava sonant Under the Table de la Fiona Appel, Mars,의per què has escollit aquesta cançó?
I was playing "Under the Table" by Fiona Appel, Mars, why did you choose this song?
Per allò que hem sentit ara, és una cançó que m'agrada molt
From what we've just heard, it's a song that I really like.
perquè és una història que expliquen a Fiona Apple
because it is a story that Fiona Apple tells
que va a un sopar i ella diu
that goes to a dinner and she says
pega'm davall de sa taula tot el que vulguis, que no me callaré,
put underneath the table everything you want, I won't be quiet,
que quan diguis alguna cosa que me molesti ho diré
that when you say something that bothers me, I will say it
i diu, en plan, el disfancy wine que m'estàs donant no me farà callar.
And he says, like, the fancy wine you’re giving me won't make me shut up.
M'agrada això perquè moltes vegades mos hem de callar,
I like this because many times we have to stay silent,
sobretot en un context laboral,
especially in a work context,
i crec que és una cosa que tenim en comú
I believe it is something we have in common.
moltes persones de sa comunitat LGTB
many people from the LGTB community
i tot i que no sempre podem posar-nos així de xulos
And although we can't always act so cocky.
com na Fiona Apple, sí que m'agrada molt
Like Fiona Apple, I really like her a lot.
pensar que de vegades, bueno, escolta,
to think that sometimes, well, listen,
jo vaig a dir el meu i si això representa un perill
I am going to say mine and if this represents a danger.
per al meu lloc de feina, s'ha d'avaluar
for my workplace, it must be evaluated
si podem permetre'ns-ho o no,
whether we can afford it or not,
però en general està bé que puguem dir el que pensem.
But in general, it is good that we can say what we think.
És una cosa en què la comunitat sempre ajuda, no?
It's something the community always helps with, right?
Tenir algú darrere.
To have someone behind.
Sí.
Yes.
Fer pinya ajuda a poder parlar més clarament i més tranquil·lament.
Gathering together helps to speak more clearly and calmly.
Correcte, total, sí, sí.
Correct, totally, yes, yes.
Molt bé, doncs ja per finalitzar el programa,
Very well, then to conclude the program,
sempre us demanem que ens compartiu una recomanació
We always ask you to share a recommendation with us.
i una antirecomanació de la ficció audiovisual.
and an anti-recommendation of audiovisual fiction.
Les recomanacions són coses que penseu que s'han fet bé
The recommendations are things that you think have been done well.
i l'antirecomanació coses que penseu que no s'han fet tan bé.
And the anti-recommendation things that you think have not been done so well.
Pel·lícules, sèries, capítols, escenes,
Movies, series, episodes, scenes,
però potser també processos de creació darrere les càmeres.
but perhaps also creation processes behind the scenes.
Respecte amb el concepte de la comunitat LGTB,
Regarding the concept of the LGTB community,
la LGTBIQ+,
the LGTBIQ+
quines creieu que s'han fet bé
which ones do you think have been done well
i quines potser no tan bé?
and which ones perhaps not so well?
Glòria, començarem per tu.
Glòria, we will start with you.
Què ens recomanes i què no ens recomanes?
What do you recommend and what do you not recommend?
A ver, yo...
Let me see, I...
En cuanto a recomendaciones,
Regarding recommendations,
me salen más ahora mismo y eso me hace feliz
I have more coming out right now and that makes me happy.
porque significa que estoy viendo productos que me interesan,
because it means that I am viewing products that interest me,
de lo que hablábamos.
of what we were talking about.
Hay una serie británica que vi hace poco
There's a British series that I watched recently.
que se llama In My Skin,
that is called In My Skin,
la encontré en filming
I found her in filming.
y me pareció brutal.
and I thought it was awesome.
Brutal porque también aborda otras temáticas
Brutal because it also addresses other themes.
y aborda otras temáticas de discapacidad
and addresses other themes of disability
o de una condición también más a nivel psiquiátrico,
or of a condition also more at a psychiatric level,
digamos, de temas así.
let's say, about topics like that.
Y cómo un adolescente vive esto en su familia,
And how a teenager experiences this in their family,
violencia también y todo,
violence too and everything,
pero a la vez cómo lo aborda
but at the same time how it approaches it
y la fachada que tiene que ponerle a sus amigues,
and the facade that you have to put on for your friends,
en el cole, ¿no?
at school, right?
Entonces es como una mezcla muy buena.
So it's like a very good mix.
Me parece que está muy bien.
I think it's very good.
Y bueno, así como en una cosa más ligera,
And well, in a lighter matter,
también hay una peli que se llama Crush,
there is also a movie called Crush,
que es así, tono muy adolescente,
that is so, very teenage tone,
muy así, muy cuqui,
very much so, very cute,
pero me parece que también es linda de ver
but it seems to me that it is also nice to look at
porque es algo que a mí me hubiera encantado ver
because it's something I would have loved to see
siendo adolescente, ¿sabes?
being a teenager, you know?
Como lo aborda ya todo integrado,
As it addresses everything already integrated,
ya no sé qué,
I don't know what anymore,
ya no es un problema,
it's no longer a problem,
no es que todos estaban en este conflicto,
it's not that everyone was in this conflict,
sino que hay toda una integración ahí,
but there is a whole integration there,
a pesar de que es como una comedia romántica, ¿verdad?
Even though it’s like a romantic comedy, right?
Así más ligera,
So lighter,
pero me parece que está bien abordado.
but it seems to me that it is well addressed.
Me gustaría decir una cosa latinoamericana
I would like to say something Latin American.
porque esto cuesta encontrar
because this is hard to find
y de hecho, bueno,
and in fact, well,
puede que sea una recomendación
it may be a recommendation
que muchas personas consideren antirecomendación
that many people consider an antirecommendation
porque no necesariamente al verla es como muy digerible,
because seeing it is not necessarily very digestible,
pero es las mil y una.
but it's a thousand and one.
Es una película argentina,
It is an Argentine movie.
y la película justo habla de una comunidad
And the movie just talks about a community.
que no es, como hablaba Santi antes,
"that it's not, as Santi was talking earlier,"
no es de estas comunidades de dinero,
it is not one of these money communities,
de no sé qué, de muchas facilidades,
I don't know what, of many facilities,
sino más bien en una población en Argentina
but rather in a town in Argentina
donde hasta por la jerga que utilizan
where even by the jargon they use
ni entiendes muchas veces,
nor do you understand many times,
tienes que poner ahí como subtítulos y atención y tal,
you have to put there as subtitles and attention and so on,
y creo que está muy bien entender ese contexto,
and I think it is very important to understand that context,
también cómo se manejan las sexualidades diversas
also how diverse sexualities are handled
en un contexto así, diferente.
in such a different context.
Como antirecomendación,
As a warning,
pues tengo algunas cosas mainstream,
Well, I have some mainstream things,
como una película navideña
like a Christmas movie
que se llama The Happiest Season,
called The Happiest Season,
que para todos los recursos,
that for all resources,
todo lo tal que podían manejar,
everything as they could handle,
me parece que el storyline se fue
It seems to me that the storyline is gone.
hacia lo heteronormativo total
towards total heteronormativity
y que no me pareció justo conmigo como audiencia poder verlo.
and I didn't think it was fair to me as an audience to see it.
No sé si alguien más quiere compartir.
I don't know if anyone else wants to share.
Santi, la te va a recomendar.
Santi is going to recommend it to you.
Sí, antirecomendación.
Yes, antirecommendation.
A ver, lo estuve pensando bastante.
Let's see, I was thinking about it quite a lot.
Yo ahí tengo un poco,
I have a little bit there,
soy un poco como el espadachín de las causas perdidas
I am a bit like the swordsman of lost causes.
con cierto cine español,
with certain Spanish cinema,
porque yo defiendo, no sé,
because I defend, I don't know,
como que no hay solo un canon,
as there is not just one canon,
sino que realmente hay distintos canones,
but there are actually different canons,
sobre todo si pensamos en términos estéticos,
especially if we think in aesthetic terms,
pues no todas las películas tienen que seguir el mismo camino.
Well, not all movies have to follow the same path.
Yo la recomendación que había pensado
I the recommendation that I had thought.
es una película que cuando salió fue,
it's a movie that when it came out was,
vamos a decir,
let's say,
Apedreada,
Stoned,
que se llama El grito en el cielo,
that is called The Cry in the Sky,
que es de Félix Sabroso y Dunia Yasso del año 98
What is by Félix Sabroso and Dunia Yasso from the year 98.
y que es muy representativa
and that it is very representative
de esa cultura queer
from that queer culture
que podemos llamar camp, afeminada, excesiva.
that we can call camp, effeminate, excessive.
En el momento los críticos la atacaron muchísimo,
At that moment, the critics attacked her very much,
pero claro, es que el cine no tiene por qué ser solo
but of course, cinema doesn't have to be just
realismo, problemas sociales,
realism, social issues
sino que es una película que dentro de esa lógica estética
but it is a film that within that aesthetic logic
que entronca con yo,
that connects with me,
con Waters, por supuesto, Almodóvar,
with Waters, of course, Almodóvar,
pero es que muchas veces simplifiques como solo Almodóvar.
but many times you simplify it as just Almodóvar.
Bueno, pues me parece que es divertida
Well, I think it's fun.
y es un cine camp
and it is a camp cinema
que al final es como un eslabón intermedio,
that in the end is like an intermediate link,
el de Félix Sabroso, por ejemplo,
Félix Sabroso's, for example,
en fin, otros cineastas de la época,
well, other filmmakers of the time,
que está entre Almodóvar y lo que hacen a lo mejor los Javis,
that is between Almodóvar and what the Javis might do,
o algunos creadores así,
or some creators like that,
más en la actualidad.
more currently.
Y es un poco también lo que hice con el libro de la tesis,
And it's a bit like what I did with the thesis book,
¿no?
No?
Reivindicar alguna de esas películas en plan,
Claiming one of those movies like,
bueno, es tan mal según esos criterios estéticos
Well, it's so bad according to those aesthetic criteria.
que la mayoría de críticos hombres heterosexuales
that the majority of critics are heterosexual men
tradicionalmente han manejado,
traditionally they have managed,
pero probablemente desde el placer subcultural
but probably from subcultural pleasure
nos aporta más mucho más este tipo de obras
brings us much more, this type of work
que están más cerca quizá de RuPaul, ¿no?
who are perhaps closer to RuPaul, right?
O de otro tipo de contenidos queer que, en fin,
Or other types of queer content that, well,
ese sota caballo y rey de lo que se supone
that under horse and king of what is supposed
que solo puede ser el buen cine.
that can only be good cinema.
Y antirecomendación, voy a decir de forma así un poco
And as a recommendation against it, I will say it like this a little.
intencionadamente, no sé si decir provocadora, ¿no?
Intentionally, I don't know if I should say provocative, right?
Voy a decir élite, ¿vale?
I'm going to say elite, okay?
Porque, por un lado, está bien, ¿no?
Because, on one hand, it's good, right?
En cuanto a, bueno, imágenes de diversidad y tal,
As for, well, images of diversity and such,
pero también creo que es sintomática de cierta tendencia
but I also think it is symptomatic of a certain trend
que se ve en algún tipo de ficciones
that is seen in some types of fictions
ya hacia lo que podemos llamar, sin temor a equivocarnos,
we can say, without fear of being mistaken,
exploitation, ¿no?
exploitation, right?
En plan, explotación comercial de cuerpos normativos,
In terms of commercial exploitation of normative bodies,
del sexo fácil como regla,
of easy sex as a rule,
en plan, personajes que qué tipo de complejidad narrativa tienen, ¿no?
Like, what kind of narrative complexity do the characters have, right?
Tenemos más, pues eso, desnudos, sexo acrobático, etcétera, etcétera.
We have more, well, nudity, acrobatic sex, etcetera, etcetera.
No sé, hasta qué punto.
I don't know to what extent.
Por una parte está bien, ¿no?
On one hand, it's fine, isn't it?
Porque son, vale, imágenes de diversidad y tal.
Because they are, okay, images of diversity and such.
Pero por otra parte, digo élite, como podría decir otras,
But on the other hand, I say elite, as I could say others,
me preocupa un poco esa instrumentalización, vamos a decir,
I'm a little concerned about that instrumentalization, let's say.
demasiado banal de los cuerpos, ¿no?
too banal of the bodies, isn't it?
Es decir, porque la gente queer no es solo cuerpos y tener sexo, ¿no?
That is to say, because queer people are not just bodies and having sex, right?
Sino, no sé, afectos, lo que hablábamos, vulnerabilidad,
Otherwise, I don't know, affections, what we talked about, vulnerability,
bueno, simplemente un poco como llamada de atención.
Well, just a little bit as a wake-up call.
Creo que hay una excesiva mercantilización
I believe there is excessive commercialization.
de esos cuerpos normativos en algunas ficciones actuales.
of those normative bodies in some current fictions.
No quiero decir que, pues nada, que haya que prohibir,
I don't mean to say that, well, that something should be prohibited,
que haya que quitar ese tipo de series,
that it is necessary to remove this type of series,
pero sí que estamos yendo un poco, o sea,
but we are indeed making a little progress, I mean,
me recuerdo un poco a cierto cine como de destape o exploitation
I remember a bit of certain cinema like that of nudity or exploitation.
que había en España en los 70 o 80.
what there was in Spain in the 70s or 80s.
Lo que pasa es,
What happens is,
es verdad, no solo son cuerpos femeninos,
it's true, they're not just female bodies,
pero al final las sobadísimas escenas de ducha,
but in the end the overdone shower scenes,
todos estos tópicos trilladísimos, los tenemos ahí, ¿no?
All these clichéd topics, we have them there, right?
Entonces, bueno, simplemente por comentarlo.
So, well, just to mention it.
Per últim, Mars, la teva recomanació i antirecomanació.
Finally, Mars, your recommendation and anti-recommendation.
Bueno, jo he pensat una mica,
Well, I have thought a bit,
per exemple, lo primer que m'ha vengut en el cap
for example, the first thing that came to my mind
que estic veient ara és de l'AstoFaz,
what I am seeing now is from AstoFaz,
que crec que és una bona manera de representar el col·lectiu.
I think it is a good way to represent the collective.
Bueno, almenys hi ha diverses trames LGTB,
Well, at least there are several LGTB storylines.
que no t'esperes, que no...
that you don't expect, that you don't...
És com...
It's like...
Bueno, no sé si heu sentit xerrada,
Well, I don't know if you've heard talk,
és famós tercer episodi que són dos homes que són gais.
It is a famous third episode where there are two men who are gay.
No havíem vist mai dos gais a l'apocalipsi.
We had never seen two gay men in the apocalypse.
Mai ho havíem vist.
We had never seen it.
I és com, oh, molt bé, 2023, a la fi, gràcies.
And it's like, oh, very good, 2023, at last, thank you.
I la manera com se tracten els personatges m'està agradant molt
And the way the characters are treated I am really enjoying.
i cada vegada més m'adon de que ja m'he cansat de veure
And more and more I realize that I am already tired of seeing.
trames de personatges LGTB,
LGBT character storylines,
que se seva trames a un personatge LGTB,
that is transmitted to an LGTB character,
i per tant, per exemple, aquesta, o Halt and Catch Fire,
and therefore, for example, this one, or Halt and Catch Fire,
que està filmint, és una sèrie que també té un personatge
what is being filmed is a series that also has a character
que és bisexual i que està perfectament integrat a sa trama.
that is bisexual and is perfectly integrated into the plot.
Fins i tot és una sèrie que representa sa masculinitat
It is even a series that represents masculinity.
d'una manera increïble.
in an incredible way.
Vull dir, la recomano més enllà de col·lectiu LGTB,
I mean, I recommend it beyond the LGTB collective,
la recomano com a gran sèrie
I recommend it as a great series.
i també ja més centrat en tema LGTB.
and also more focused on the LGBTQ topic.
A mi, Transparent m'ha agradat, m'ha agradat molt.
I liked Transparent, I liked it a lot.
M'ha semblat una molt bona sèrie,
I thought it was a very good series.
una sèrie molt sensible.
a very sensitive series.
Té un gran error, que sa actriu principal no és una dona trans,
You are making a big mistake; the main actress is not a trans woman.
o sigui, que el personatge principal no està interpretat per una dona trans,
that is, the main character is not played by a trans woman,
però més enllà d'això, se nota molt que hi ha un equip a darrere.
but beyond that, it is very noticeable that there is a team behind it.
Perquè moltes vegades mos obsessionam amb que els actors i ses actrius siguin trans,
Because many times we become obsessed with the fact that actors and actresses are trans,
quan en realitat no són ses persones que fan es contingut.
when in reality it's not those people who create the content.
Sa equip creatiu, sa equip artístic, no és qui ha escrit aquesta sèrie,
The creative team, the artistic team, is not the one who has written this series,
qui l'ha pensada, qui li posa sa mirada,
who has thought it, who places their gaze upon it,
és qui l'escriu, qui la grava,
it is the one who writes it, who records it,
i en aquest sentit Transparent aprova perfectament perquè gran part de sa equip,
and in this sense Transparent is perfectly approved because a large part of its team,
tant tècnic com de guió i de realització,
both technical and scriptwriting and directing,
són persones que formen part del col·lectiu trans
they are people who are part of the trans community
i se nota moltíssim, està fet amb molta sensibilitat.
It is very noticeable, it is made with a lot of sensitivity.
Això sí, són molt rics, això no ho arreglarà.
That's true, they are very rich; that won't fix anything.
I per últim, des del món de sa stand-up,
And lastly, from the world of stand-up,
també no puc no recomanar Hannah Gadsby,
I also cannot help but recommend Hannah Gadsby,
que és una monologuïsta que per jo ha fet molt de bé sa representació, així que fantàstic.
she is a monologist who, in my opinion, has done a great job with the performance, so fantastic.
Anti-recomanació.
Anti-recommendation.
Anti-recomanació, això és lo que més m'agrada.
Anti-recommendation, that is what I like the most.
No, m'agrada més lo que he dit ara, m'emociona més.
No, I like what I just said more, it moves me more.
No, anti-recomanació sobretot m'acentra en representació trans,
No, the anti-recommendation mainly focuses on trans representation.
que és lo que més he investigat.
what is it that I have researched the most.
La xica d'Anessa per jo és una pel·lícula que es nefasta,
The girl from Anessa is a movie that is terrible.
que es terrible, que fa que te'n tinguin ganes de morir-te,
that is terrible, that makes you want to die,
pues això crec que seria lo que no volem d'una pel·li.
Well, I think that would be what we don't want from a movie.
També sa The Girl, que és una pel·lícula d'una noia que es ballarina, una noia trans,
Also The Girl, which is a movie about a girl who is a dancer, a trans girl.
ballarina, que també és terrible.
dancer, which is also terrible.
Són pel·lícules, també per últim tenia apuntat About Ray,
They are movies, I also had About Ray noted down last.
que se diu Tres Generaciones en castellà.
It is called Three Generations in Spanish.
Són pel·lícules que tracten molt malament el tema dels cos,
They are movies that mishandle the subject of the body very poorly.
el tema de sòdia a un mateix, el tema de volar modificar-se,
the theme of being oneself, the theme of flying to change oneself,
i està fatal, i ningú entén res, i a més sempre estan sols,
It's terrible, and nobody understands anything, and moreover they are always alone.
i els únics referents que tenen són metges.
And the only references they have are doctors.
Vull dir, sempre m'agrada pensar moltes vegades que si sa protagonista,
I mean, I always like to think many times that if the protagonist,
per exemple, de la xica d'Anessa,
for example, of Anessa's girl,
anés a Google i trobés sa pel·lícula de la xica d'Anessa,
I went to Google and found the movie of Anessa's girl,
és que no se sentiria ben representada.
she would not feel well represented.
Vull dir, és que seria terrible.
I mean, it would be terrible.
Aniria a cercar referents i veuria aquella basura de referents.
I would go look for references and see that garbage of references.
No sé, però que mos mereixem referents una mica més saludables.
I don't know, but we deserve somewhat healthier role models.
Potser trobaria les altres recomanacions que ens heu donat, no?
Perhaps you would find the other recommendations you have given us, right?
Tant de bo.
I wish.
Ja està bé, moltes gràcies per totes aquestes recomanacions.
That's enough, thank you very much for all these recommendations.
Realment és un gust poder parlar de tantes coses diferents que s'estan fent, no?
It really is a pleasure to talk about so many different things that are being done, isn't it?
I moltíssimes gràcies a totis per crear avui amb nosaltres
And thank you very much to everyone for creating with us today.
aquesta microcomunitat a Retrats Intermitents.
this microcommunity at Intermittent Portraits.
Moltes gràcies, Mars, Santi i Glori.
Thank you very much, Mars, Santi, and Glori.
Moltes gràcies.
Thank you very much.
Gràcies, Marta.
Thank you, Marta.
Moltes gràcies.
Thank you very much.
I a la gent que ens escolteu, us recordem que a la nostra web,
And to the people who listen to us, we remind you that on our website,
Retrats Intermitents, trobareu la resta d'episodis,
Intermittent Portraits, you will find the rest of the episodes,
així com a informació adicional, les recomanacions i antirecomanacions,
as additional information, the recommendations and anti-recommendations,
i molts altres recursos.
and many other resources.
Això ha sigut el cinquè i últim episodi de Retrats Intermitents,
This has been the fifth and final episode of Intermittent Portraits.
un podcast de representació LGTBIQ+,
a podcast on LGBTQ+ representation,
realitzat al marc del projecte de recerca IMSS-DMSI LGTBIQ+, Pantalles,
conducted within the framework of the IMSS-DMSI LGTBIQ+ research project, Screens,
gràcies al finançament de la Fundació Catalana per la Recerca i la Innovació,
thanks to the funding from the Catalan Foundation for Research and Innovation,
mitjançant la convocatòria Joan Oró d'ajuts per al foment de la cultura científica a Catalunya.
through the Joan Oró call for grants to promote scientific culture in Catalonia.
I ens acomiadem, com començàvem, amb You Ain't Alone dels Alabama Shakes,
And we say goodbye, as we began, with You Ain't Alone by Alabama Shakes.
una cançó sobre trobar algú amb qui ballar, algú amb qui plorar,
a song about finding someone to dance with, someone to cry with,
algú qui pugui ser un bitllet de tornar de casa,
someone who can be a return ticket home,
perquè moltes vegades aquesta casa és la nostra comunitat.
because many times this house is our community.
Moltes gràcies.
Thank you very much.
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