Ricard Torquemada: "El Barça ha aconseguit tenir dos registres, un amb Messi i un sense" - 29/10/18

Gran de Viena!

Great of Vienna!

I és l'home que ha aconseguit, amb els seus retocs, amb les seves eleccions,

And he is the man who has achieved, with his edits, with his choices,

quan se'n parla de Rafinha per substituir Messi,

when Rafinha is talked about as a substitute for Messi,

l'home que ha aconseguit que la màquina continués funcionant.

the man who has made the machine keep working.

Ricard Torquemada, bona tarda.

Ricard Torquemada, good afternoon.

Bona tarda.

Good afternoon.

La pregunta és tan simple o tan complexa com

The question is as simple or as complex as

què ha fet Ernesto Valverde perquè l'orquestra continués sonant?

What has Ernesto Valverde done for the orchestra to keep playing?

Doncs ha tornat a demostrar que té una capacitat

Well, he has once again demonstrated that he has a capacity.

per gestionar moments difícils i d'adversitat especial.

to manage difficult moments and special adversity.

Crec que ho va ensenyar amb Neymar en una etapa, diríem que, llargada

I think he taught it with Neymar in a phase that we could say was extended.

i ho ha ensenyat amb Messi en una etapa curta.

and he has taught it with Messi in a short period.

Cada cop que el Barça s'ha trobat un problema important

Every time Barça has faced a major problem

que s'havia de resoldre ràpidament,

that needed to be resolved quickly,

Valverde ha tocat, diguem que, els botons adequats.

Valverde has pressed, let's say, the right buttons.

I en aquest cas jo crec que ha aconseguit una cosa

And in this case I think he/she has achieved something.

que al barcelonisme el preocupava...

that worried him about Barcelona's identity...

Vaja, que gairebé el feia...

Wow, I almost did it...

El feia entrar en pànic, que era el tema de què passaria

It made him panic, which was the topic of what would happen.

quan no hi fos Messi, no?

when Messi wasn't there, right?

I gairebé no.

I hardly did.

Estàvem en pànic pensant que venien l'Inter i el Madrid

We were in a panic thinking that Inter and Madrid were coming.

i no hi era Messi, no ens enganyem.

And Messi wasn’t there, let’s not kid ourselves.

És veritat que l'últim precedent, l'últim exemple,

It is true that the last precedent, the last example,

era el dia que va descansar Messi contra l'Atlètic Club de Bilbao

It was the day Messi rested against Athletic Club de Bilbao.

i l'equip aquell dia no se'n va sortir.

And the team didn't manage that day.

Sí, jo crec que aquell dia l'equip sabia que Messi hi era.

Yes, I think that day the team knew that Messi was there.

Encara que Messi no jugava.

Even though Messi was not playing.

Aquesta és la clau, que ells s'han de mentalitzar

This is the key, they have to get it into their heads.

que no hi serà ni apareixerà més tard.

that he will neither be nor appear later.

Correcte.

Correct.

O sigui, aquella figura és tan gran...

I mean, that figure is so big...

i genera tanta intimidació, intimidació positiva,

and generates so much intimidation, positive intimidation,

de dir, bé, és que tenim una referència que ens aixopluga,

well, it's that we have a reference that shelters us,

ens protegeix, i tenim el germà gran, no?

It protects us, and we have the older brother, right?

El primo de...

The cousin of...

El primosol.

The primosol.

És un paraigua a nivell al que no ha pogut entrar Trump a l'avió,

It is a level umbrella that Trump has not been able to get into the plane.

a l'Air Force One.

to Air Force One.

És enorme i no hi cap.

It is huge and it doesn’t fit.

I aleshores als jugadors això els condiciona tant

And then that conditions the players so much.

que quan juguen i el veuen,

that when they play and see him,

moltes decisions ja no les tenen.

Many decisions no longer have them.

No les prenen amb la llibertat que les prendrien.

They don't take them with the freedom that they would take them.

No vol dir que Messi els hi resti llibertat.

It doesn't mean that Messi takes their freedom away.

Vol dir que els jugadors es limiten.

It means that the players are limited.

És que la millor opció sempre és donar-li a Messi.

The best option is always to pass to Messi.

Clar.

Of course.

Això humanament és el principi.

This is humanly the beginning.

Jo ho dic amb passiva perquè si no sembla que Messi sigui un problema.

I say it passively because otherwise it seems like Messi is a problem.

Messi és una benedicció.

Messi is a blessing.

Per això ho dic amb passiva.

That's why I say it passively.

Seria un titular intolerable pel programa.

It would be an intolerable headline for the program.

Clar, que els futbolistes han de pair el que és jugar al costat de Messi.

Of course, footballers have to digest what it means to play alongside Messi.

Hi ha jugadors que ho saben fer, diríem que amb naturalitat,

There are players who know how to do it, we would say naturally,

i d'altres que els hi costa molt.

and others that find it very difficult.

Passem la trajectòria de Messi al Barça,

Let's go through Messi's journey at Barcelona.

trobarem futbolistes que han hagut de marxar,

we will find footballers who have had to leave,

i grans, i jugadors molt importants que van haver de marxar

and great players, and very important players who had to leave

perquè no acabaven de pair la seva convivència amb Messi.

because they could not come to terms with their coexistence with Messi.

Jo crec que el que va fer Valverde és convèncer els futbolistes d'alguna manera,

I believe that what Valverde did was convince the footballers in some way,

sense grans discursos ni atacs d'importància,

without grand speeches or attacks of significance,

perquè Valverde en això és exemplar,

because Valverde is exemplary in this,

que mireu-vos, mireu una banda, mireu l'altra, sou vosaltres,

look at you, look one way, look the other, it's you,

les decisions les heu de prendre vosaltres,

you have to make the decisions.

la responsabilitat l'heu d'assumir vosaltres,

you must assume the responsibility.

hem de corregir el que no tenim,

we must correct what we do not have,

i sobretot hem d'aprofitar també que no hi és Messi.

And above all, we must take advantage of the fact that Messi is not here.

Com? Doncs repartint-nos l'esforç i el camp de manera més proporcionada

How? By distributing the effort and the field in a more proportional way.

que quan és Messi, que hem d'hipotecar,

that when it is Messi, we have to mortgage,

o ens hem d'adaptar a la genialitat d'un futbolista com ell,

or we have to adapt to the genius of a footballer like him,

i que això implica algun sacrifici.

and that this involves some sacrifice.

De tota manera, jo voldria obrir el focus,

In any case, I would like to broaden the focus,

perquè ara sembla que tot sigui aquesta setmana.

because now it seems that everything is this week.

Potser estic equivocat,

Maybe I'm wrong,

però jo tinc la impressió que el gran encés,

but I have the impression that the great ignition,

o el que ens porta fins aquí de Valverde,

or what brings us here from Valverde,

és haver trobat el full de ruta,

it's having found the roadmap,

i això és el camp del Tottenham.

And this is Tottenham's field.

I des d'aleshores ja sé que hi ha el partit de València

And since then I already know that there is the Valencia match.

que ens va destrampar una mica,

that threw us off a bit,

però em sembla que el mes d'octubre,

but it seems to me that the month of October,

futbolísticament, fins i tot pels que hem estat més crítics,

football-wise, even for those of us who have been more critical,

és impecable.

it is impeccable.

Sí, allò deies l'efecte Costa,

Yes, you mentioned the Costa effect.

i crec que sí, que la primera llavor és a Wembley,

I believe so, that the first seed is at Wembley.

i que Valverde acaba tan convençut com tothom,

and that Valverde ends up as convinced as everyone else,

i ja no especula que el futbol del Barça ha de passar,

and no longer speculates that Barça's football has to change,

per Coutinho davanter i Artur de migcampista.

for Coutinho forward and Arthur midfielder.

I aleshores, a partir d'aquí,

And then, from here,

hi havia aquests jugadors que ja són indiscutibles,

there were these players who are already indisputable,

com són Busquets i Ràgueditz, i Messi i Luis Suárez,

how are Busquets and Ràgueditz, and Messi and Luis Suárez,

i l'alineació surt sola,

and the alignment comes out on its own,

perquè només has de fer la defensa,

because you only have to do the defense,

i a la defensa també hi ha jugadors que són insubstituïbles.

And in defense, there are also players who are irreplaceable.

I el Barça ha trobat la brúixola i el rumb molt aviat.

And Barça has found the compass and the direction very soon.

Aquesta és una gran notícia,

This is great news,

perquè a partir d'aleshores pots construir.

because from then on you can build.

Jo et feia una mica...

I found you a bit...

Et parlava una mica del tema Messi,

I was talking to you a bit about the Messi topic,

perquè després del post-Neymar,

because after the post-Neymar,

Valverde va fer una gran feina,

Valverde did a great job,

i en aquest post-Messi també.

and in this post-Messi as well.

El que passa, des del meu punt de vista,

What happens, from my point of view,

la diferència és que en el post-Neymarisme

the difference is that in post-Neymarism

vam viure una època més gris,

we lived in a grayer time,

i ara, en canvi, a més, s'ha fet...

and now, on the contrary, moreover, it has become...

Per mi els dos últims partits són molt bons, futbolísticament.

For me, the last two matches are very good from a football perspective.

És a dir, no hi ha ni el lloc per dir...

That is to say, there is not even the place to say...

Evidentment és millor amb Messi,

Obviously, it's better with Messi.

però, hòstia, jo els dos dies m'ho he passat molt bé veient l'equip.

But, damn, I had a great time watching the team both days.

Jo crec que també és molt important que són dos equips...

I believe it is also very important that there are two teams...

El Barça ha aconseguit tenir dos registres,

Barcelona has managed to have two records,

un amb Messi i un sense ell.

one with Messi and one without him.

És a dir, que...

That is to say, that...

Ahir em sembla que era Piqué que explicava

Yesterday it seems to me that it was Piqué who was explaining.

que quan no hi ha Messi, el Barça pot defensar amb el 4-1-4-1,

that when there is no Messi, Barça can defend with the 4-1-4-1,

que aquesta temporada el Barça ja avui ha volgut recuperar.

that this season Barça has already wanted to recover today.

El que passa és que quan Messi és al camp,

What happens is that when Messi is on the field,

Messi no pot ser mai qui tanqui una banda,

Messi can never be the one to close a flank.

perquè aquesta feina és una feina molt sacrificada

because this job is a very demanding job

i que, a més, allunya Messi de zones centrals

and that, furthermore, moves Messi away from central areas

on la recuperació pot fer mal.

where recovery can hurt.

I aquesta situació, Jordi, ha estat una pedra a la sabata

And this situation, Jordi, has been a stumbling block.

per tots els entrenadors que ha tingut Messi.

For all the coaches that Messi has had.

Recordem que Guardiola va posar Messi de falsa,

Remember that Guardiola played Messi as a false nine.

un dia, perquè el Barça va anar a Stuttgart

One day, because Barça went to Stuttgart.

i un lateral que es deia Molinaro

and a full-back named Molinaro

es va convertir en el nou Roberto Carlos,

he became the new Roberto Carlos,

perquè Messi no era capaç de defensar aquella zona

because Messi was not able to defend that area

perquè ell no té aquestes condicions i necessita llibertat.

because he does not have these conditions and needs freedom.

I què va fer Guardiola?

And what did Guardiola do?

Entre altres coses, pensaran atacar,

Among other things, they will think of attacking,

però també pensaran defensar que Messi fos fals nou.

but they will also think of defending that Messi was a false nine.

Això ja li va passar a Guardiola.

This already happened to Guardiola.

Però és que li ha passat a més entrenadors.

But it has happened to more coaches.

Hi ha hagut entrenadors que han vingut després,

There have been coaches who have come after.

que jo sé que ha plantejat al vestidor

that I know has been raised in the dressing room

com voleu pressionar,

how do you want to pressure,

amb el 4-4-2-1,

with the 4-4-2-1,

o amb el 4-1-4-1,

or with the 4-1-4-1,

i ells han dit, nosaltres ens sentim més còmodes

And they said, we feel more comfortable.

amb el 4-1-4-1.

with the 4-1-4-1.

Ell ha dit, sí, però la banda algú l'hauria de tancar,

He said yes, but someone would have to close the band.

com dient.

as saying.

Clar, si Messi no ho pot fer, perquè no ho pot fer

Sure, if Messi can't do it, then he can't do it.

ni li podem exigir, algú s'ha de duplicar

we can't demand it from him, someone has to duplicate

i multiplicar perquè aquella banda es tanqui,

and multiply so that that band closes,

perquè si no la pressió no funciona.

because if not the pressure does not work.

Clar, si Rafinha juga en aquella posició,

Of course, if Rafinha plays in that position,

aquella banda està segellada.

that band is sealed.

I aleshores, tornem al mateix,

And then, we return to the same thing,

l'equip es reparteix els espais i els esforços

The team divides the spaces and efforts.

de manera molt més proporcional.

in a much more proportional way.

I l'equip no és tan brillant,

And the team is not that bright,

però en canvi,

but on the other hand,

és tan efectiu en una qüestió

it is so effective in a matter

que és la pressió que en el futbol modern

what is the pressure in modern football

és vital.

It is vital.

Ara que treus això, em va cridar l'atenció

Now that you mention this, it caught my attention.

que Rafinha, que jo pensava,

that Rafinha, that I thought,

home, el dia de l'Inter va perdre la banda

man, on the day the Inter lost the band

i se'n va anar cap a dins,

and he went inside,

si ja Marcelo viurà enganxat a la dreta,

if Marcelo will live stuck on the right,

doncs no.

well no.

No, no, marxava.

No, no, I was leaving.

Té tant recorregut, Rafinha,

Rafinha has come such a long way,

té tanta capacitat física que pot marxar i tornar.

He has so much physical capacity that he can go and come back.

Això ho té.

This has it.

Perta una pilota, la persegueix, la pressiona.

He loses a ball, chases it, pressures it.

Quan el Barça la té, com dius tu,

When Barça has it, as you say,

va a zones centrals, entre línies,

goes to central areas, between lines,

però quan el Barça la perd,

but when Barça loses it,

la disciplina de Rafinha és un tresor per a un entrenador

Rafinha's discipline is a treasure for a coach.

i jo crec que per això també ha estat

And I believe that this is also why it has been.

l'escollit de Valverde fins ara

the chosen one of Valverde so far

per ocupar aquesta posició.

to fill this position.

Doncs Ernesto Valverde,

Well, Ernesto Valverde,

el gran triomfador,

the great winner,

o un dels grans triomfadors...

or one of the great winners...

Sí, deixa'm afegir sobre Valverde, perdona,

Yes, let me add about Valverde, sorry,

i acabo, el treball amb Dembélé i Arturo Vidal,

And I finish, the work with Dembélé and Arturo Vidal,

que són treballs desagraïts,

that are thankless jobs,

que no han estat fàcils, que han aixecat polseguera,

that have not been easy, that have raised dust,

però que ha acabat la setmana

but the week has ended

amb...

with...

Dembélé i Arturo Vidal fabricant el 5 a 1,

Dembélé and Arturo Vidal making it 5 to 1.

cosa que de cop i volta, mentalment,

thing that all of a sudden, mentally,

Arturo Vidal i Dembélé

Arturo Vidal and Dembélé

els torna a situar en dinàmica...

it puts them back in a dynamic...

Jo com vaig veure ahir abraçar

I saw how to hug yesterday.

Sergio Roberto a Dembélé,

Sergio Roberto to Dembélé,

amb aquella alegria, Dembélé,

with that joy, Dembélé,

que ve d'aquest mal cap,

that comes from this bad head,

d'aquest trauma,

of this trauma,

d'aquesta sensació que no havia

of this feeling that I had not

paït bé res, de cop i volta ahir

I didn't eat well, suddenly yesterday.

té un gran somriure, i no t'explico

she has a big smile, and I won't tell you

l'abraçada a l'altra banda del camp

the hug on the other side of the field

d'Arturo Vidal amb Suárez

of Arturo Vidal with Suárez

i no recordo qui era el tercer,

and I don't remember who the third one was,

és a dir, a dues cantonades del camp,

that is to say, two blocks from the field,

els dos sospitosos, diríem,

the two suspects, we would say,

de cop i volta van trobar la reconciliació,

suddenly they found reconciliation,

i aquesta és una feina que Valverde

And this is a job that Valverde

sempre en silenci ha fet

she has always done so in silence

amb aquell punt

with that point

de saviesa, diria,

of wisdom, I would say,

calmada que té, no?

the calmness she has, right?

Que mai es desfà

That never breaks down.

ni es desfura.

nor is it skewed.

Perquè, a més a més, per mi la jugada clau del partit

Because, moreover, for me the key play of the match

és la del 3 a 1,

it's the 3 to 1.

i la gestió, Dembélé ha acabat de sortir

And in the management, Dembélé has just left.

al terreny de joc, perquè Valverde,

on the playing field, because Valverde,

veu que hi ha un espai allà

do you see that there is a space there

que li va tenir pintat.

that he had painted for him.

I el Sergi Roberto Semedo, que va funcionar

And Sergi Roberto Semedo, who worked.

molt malament a Roma,

very bad in Rome,

que va funcionar molt malament a Roma...

that worked very poorly in Rome...

Val, ahir t'ho compro, però...

Okay, I'll buy it for you yesterday, but...

Sí, però saps per què t'ho dic, Jordi?

Yes, but do you know why I'm telling you this, Jordi?

Perquè l'any passat ho vam centrar tot en això...

Because last year we focused everything on this...

Perquè l'escenari tàctic d'ahir, com el de Roma,

Because yesterday's tactical scenario, like that of Rome,

era d'un equip que anava a pressionar dalt

It was about a team that was going to pressure up.

gairebé com si s'acabés el món,

almost as if the world were ending,

perquè no tenia una altra oportunitat.

because I didn't have another chance.

I el que va veure ahir Valverde és el mateix

And what Valverde saw yesterday is the same.

que va veure a Roma, que hi havia espais

what he saw in Rome, that there were spaces

i que volia el desplegament de Sergi Roberto.

And I wanted the deployment of Sergi Roberto.

I ahir, Sergi Roberto...

And yesterday, Sergi Roberto...

En els minuts d'extrem,

In the dying minutes,

fa un molt bon partit. Estem totalment d'acord.

It's a very good match. We totally agree.

Va treure a patroli Sergi Roberto,

He took Sergi Roberto out on patrol.

el que passa no és ben bé el mateix

what happens is not quite the same

d'entrada que de sortida.

inbound and outbound.

Jo entenc que com a recurs...

I understand that as a resource...

Però en aquella mateixa posició, Sergi Roberto

But in that same position, Sergi Roberto

fa un excel·lent partit al Bernabéu.

plays an excellent match at the Bernabéu.

Sí, sí.

Yes, yes.

Crec que és l'any que...

I think it's the year that...

0-4.

0-4.

A mi, jo ja...

To me, I already...

Veig que amb la fórmula Sergi Roberto Semedo

I see that with the formula Sergi Roberto Semedo.

no has trobat la reconciliació absoluta.

you have not found absolute reconciliation.

No, no del tot.

No, not at all.

No del tot, però clar, els resultats manen

Not entirely, but of course, the results speak for themselves.

i a Valverde aquesta setmana

and in Valverde this week

no li puc discutir ni la colònia que gasta.

I can't even dispute the colony he/she uses.

Ricard, gràcies.

Ricard, thank you.

A vosaltres.

To you.

Ara tornem.

Now we return.