Toni Arbonès, la veu d'una fita històrica al K2
Catalunya Ràdio
Hotel Palestina
Toni Arbonès, la veu d'una fita històrica al K2
Catalunya Ràdio. Catalunya Àudio. Som podcast.
Catalonia Radio. Catalonia Audio. We are podcast.
L'Hotel Palestina es podria dir Comodor, Milcoli no Carabel.
The Palestine Hotel could be called Comodor, Milcoli not Carabel.
L'Hotel Palestina és refugi, trobada i retrobada,
The Palestina Hotel is a refuge, a meeting and reunion place,
l'emblema d'un ofici en risc d'extinció.
the emblem of a profession at risk of extinction.
Però també és enemic hostil i fonest.
But it is also a hostile and sinister enemy.
L'Hotel Palestina és tot això, i per nosaltres,
The Hotel Palestina is all of this, and for us,
un homenatge als que no li han sobreviscut.
A tribute to those who have not survived him.
Hotel Palestina, el podcast de Catalunya Ràdio
Hotel Palestina, the podcast of Catalunya Ràdio.
on reporters i reporteres expliquen l'altra cara del relat.
where reporters explain the other side of the story.
Presentat per Marc Gomes i David Fonseca.
Presented by Marc Gomes and David Fonseca.
Avui tenim el plaer de llotjar el nostre particular hotel,
Today we have the pleasure of hosting our particular hotel,
el Toni Argonès.
Toni Argonès.
Toni, benvingut a l'Hotel Palestina.
Toni, welcome to the Palestine Hotel.
Moltes gràcies, moltes gràcies per rebre'm a l'Hotel Palestina.
Thank you very much, thank you very much for welcoming me to the Palestine Hotel.
Toni, ets d'hotels o quan viatges prefereixes altres tipus de llotjaments?
Toni, are you into hotels or do you prefer other types of accommodations when you travel?
No, a hotels, i més amb l'edat.
No, to hotels, especially with age.
Potser fa anys sí que era de tenda de campanya o de bivac,
Perhaps years ago it was for camping or bivouacking,
però ara sí, més d'hotels, potser, sí, sí.
but now yes, more hotels, maybe, yes, yes.
Tu que tens fama de ser un dels millors d'escrivint el paisatge sonor,
You who have a reputation for being one of the best at writing the soundscape,
on ens has citat avui, Toni?
Where have you summoned us today, Toni?
Bé, us he citat a la llibreria Altaïr,
Well, I have summoned you to the Altaïr bookstore.
que és d'alguna forma on tot comença, no?
that is somehow where everything begins, right?
Tots els viatges, almenys els meus,
All trips, at least mine,
i m'imagino que els de moltíssima gent,
I imagine that many people,
de moltíssimes altres persones,
of many other people,
doncs comencen aquí, a Altaïr, no?
So it starts here, at Altaïr, right?
Sempre, sobretot anys enrere,
Always, especially years ago,
doncs abans de començar un viatge,
so before starting a journey,
el primer pas era venir a Altaïr, no?
The first step was to come to Altaïr, right?
Consultar guies, mapes,
Consult guides, maps,
i per tant, doncs, com no pot ser d'una altra manera,
and therefore, as it cannot be otherwise,
som envoltats de mapamundis,
we are surrounded by world maps,
de grans mides que ens mostren aquest món tan fascinant,
of large sizes that show us this fascinating world,
envoltats de lleixes carregades de llibres,
surrounded by shelves laden with books,
llibres plens d'històries
books full of stories
que per més anys que visquéssim
that for as many years as we lived
no ens les acabarem,
we won't finish them.
de taules també forrades de llibres,
of tables also covered with books,
quin millor escenari,
what better scenario,
o quin millor ambient per trobar-nos
Oh what a better atmosphere to meet in!
i parlar del món que la llibreria Altaïr.
And talk about the world that the Altaïr bookstore.
Toni Arbonès Petit va començar la seva carrera radiofònica
Toni Arbonès Petit started his radio career.
a Radio Minuto.
At Radio Minuto.
El 1983 va entrar a Catalunya Ràdio,
In 1983, he/she joined Catalunya Ràdio.
que començava les emissions aquell mateix any,
that started broadcasting that same year,
i des d'aleshores,
and since then,
ja no ha canviat mai de mitjà.
he has never changed his means.
Per aquesta mesura ha cobert els conflictes armats
For this measure, it has covered armed conflicts.
al Golf Pèrsi, Kosovo, l'Afganistan, el Paquistan
the Persian Gulf, Kosovo, Afghanistan, Pakistan
i més recentment, Ucraïna.
and more recently, Ukraine.
Ha fet cobertures internacionals
He has done international coverage.
a Nova York, Nicaragua, l'Índia,
in New York, Nicaragua, India,
Oman, Etiopia, Algèria, Nepal,
Oman, Ethiopia, Algeria, Nepal.
Tailàndia, Turquia, Israel i Hong Kong.
Thailand, Turkey, Israel, and Hong Kong.
Va cobrir el referèndum
He covered the referendum.
per la pau de l'Uster
for the peace of Uster
i l'expedició catalana al K2 l'any 1988.
And the Catalan expedition to K2 in 1988.
Actualment presenta i dirigeix
Currently presents and directs
els viatgers de la Gran Anaconda,
the travelers of the Great Anaconda,
un dels programes de Catalunya Ràdio
one of the programs of Catalunya Ràdio
amb una trajectòria més dilatada,
with a longer trajectory,
superant les 1.000 emissions
surpassing 1,000 emissions
i que ostenta desenes de premis i reconeixements,
and that holds dozens of awards and recognitions,
entre ells el d'Òmnium Cultural,
among them that of Òmnium Cultural,
el millor programa de ràdio.
the best radio show.
És autor dels llibres Històries d'una guerra invisible,
He is the author of the books Stories of an Invisible War,
cròniques d'un reporter al Paquistan i l'Afganistan,
Chronicles of a reporter in Pakistan and Afghanistan.
K2, massa alt
K2, too high.
per als nostres somnis
for our dreams
i els viatgers de la Gran Anaconda, 25 anys.
and the travelers of the Great Anaconda, 25 years.
A Barcelona Televisió
At Barcelona Television
ha dirigit els programes Conexió Barcelona,
he has directed the programs Conexió Barcelona,
Ulisses a Port i Passaport Barcelona.
Ulysses at Port and Passport Barcelona.
També ha publicat diversos articles
He has also published several articles.
i reportatges a La Vanguardia,
and reports in La Vanguardia,
El Temps, Win Magazine
The Time, Win Magazine
i El Mano, entre d'altres.
and El Mano, among others.
Toni, amb 20 i pocs anys
Toni, in his early 20s.
ja entres a Catalunya Ràdio,
you are now entering Catalunya Ràdio,
una emissora que tot just començava a emetre,
a station that had just begun broadcasting,
i tu ets de les primeres veus
and you are one of the first voices
en sortida d'antena.
on antenna output.
De fet, el primer informatiu
In fact, the first news program
el feu el Joan Carles Pèris,
it was made by Joan Carles Pèris,
la Carme Anglada i tu mateix.
Carmen Anglada and you yourself.
Suposo que els mitjans actuals
I suppose that the current means
amb els d'aquella època són una mica diferents.
with those from that time are a little different.
En canvi, una mica, sí.
On the other hand, a little bit, yes.
Mira, per començar et diré que en aquell moment
Look, to begin with I will tell you that at that moment
bé, els mitjans de comunicació
well, the media
de la Generalitat sempre han tingut
they have always had from the Generalitat
un servei de correcció lingüística.
a linguistic correction service.
És a dir, tots els nostres textos
That is to say, all our texts.
passen per les mans de correctors.
they go through the hands of proofreaders.
Bé, ara
Well, now.
tu poses el sistema
you set the system
i el sistema te'ls torna i no veus allà
and the system returns them to you and you don't see there
on l'has errat, no? No veus les errades.
Where you have made a mistake, right? Don't you see the mistakes?
Veus el text perfectament escrit.
You see the text perfectly written.
Però en aquell moment les correccions es feien a mà.
But at that moment the corrections were done by hand.
Això vol dir que el corrector
This means that the proofreader
tornava el teu full
I was returning your sheet.
amb les correccions fetes. I allò era
with the corrections made. And that was
el text que llegies en directe.
the text you were reading live.
Amb la lletra del corrector, fent filigranes,
With the corrector's handwriting, making filigrees,
depèn de si eres molt bon o...
it depends on whether you are very good or...
molt bon redactor o no ho eres tant,
very good writer or not so much,
doncs tenies més correccions o menys i llavors
so did you have more corrections or fewer and then
sabies de... clar, no ho tornaries a redactar.
you knew about... of course, you wouldn't rewrite it.
No teníem temps per tornar a redactar.
We didn't have time to rewrite.
Penseu que tu has esmentat l'informatiu del matí,
You think that you mentioned the morning news.
el primer informatiu del matí de Catalunya Ràdio,
the first morning news bulletin of Catalunya Ràdio,
entravem a les 5 del matí i a les 7
We enter at 5 in the morning and at 7.
sortíem amb antena.
we went out with an antenna.
Però no teníem xarxa de corresponsals,
But we didn't have a network of correspondents,
tampoc. Per tant,
neither. Therefore,
tot l'informatiu l'escrivíem i el llegíem
We wrote and read all the news.
pràcticament entre el Joan Carles Pèrez, la Carme Anglada
practically between Joan Carles Pérez and Carme Anglada
i jo, no? I...
And me, right? I...
clar, era...
of course, it was...
molt, molt, molt diferent. Era molt difícil.
very, very, very different. It was very difficult.
Teníem un tall de veu perquè
We had a voice cut because
doncs això, no teníem corresponsals, amb qui connectar
well then, we didn't have correspondents, with whom to connect
i els mitjans tecnològics
and the technological means
ni t'explico, no? Clar, doncs els
I won't explain it to you, right? Of course, so the...
telèfons estaven enganxats a les parets...
phones were stuck to the walls...
Hi havia màquines d'escriure...
There were typewriters...
Sí, sí, clar, era un altre...
Yes, yes, of course, it was another one...
amb paper de calc, és a dir, que si volies
with carbon paper, that is to say, if you wanted
fer còpia havies de posar un paper d'aquells que et calcava
to make a copy you had to put one of those papers that would carbon copy it
el que estaves escrivint amb un segon paper.
what you were writing with a second sheet of paper.
És una altra època.
It is another era.
És una mentida que en tan pocs anys
It is a lie that in so few years
haguem fet un salt tan...
we would have made such a leap...
tan contundent.
so contundent.
Tu de seguida, però ja te'n vas d'enviat especial
You right away, but you're already going as a special envoy.
a Nicaràgua, després a Oman,
to Nicaragua, then to Oman,
Etiopia, Algèria, Nepal i una llarga
Ethiopia, Algeria, Nepal and a long
llista que ara repassàvem. Aquesta era
list that we were just reviewing. This was
la teva vocació? És el que volies fer,
your vocation? Is it what you wanted to do,
el que volies ser? O t'hi veus una mica empès
What did you want to be? Or do you see yourself a bit pushed into it?
per les circumstàncies i el moment?
for the circumstances and the moment?
Mira, recordo quan va
Look, I remember when it goes.
esclatar la guerra del golf de l'any 90,
the Gulf War of 1990 broke out,
que era estiu, jo en aquell
that it was summer, I at that
estiu estava editant un informatiu.
summer was editing a news report.
I quan va...
And when it goes...
quan l'Iraq va envair Kuwait,
when Iraq invaded Kuwait,
doncs recordo que vaig
so I remember that I went
entrar al despatx del cap d'informatius i li vaig dir
I entered the news director's office and told him.
escolta, hi hem d'anar. En aquell moment
Listen, we have to go there. At that moment.
res estava estructurat.
Nothing was structured.
Era factible que un redactor entrés
It was feasible for an editor to enter.
al despatx del cap d'informatius i li digués
in the head of news office and told him
crec que hem d'anar allà, que hi ha
I think we need to go there, that there is.
una guerra, escolta, això és terrible i
a war, listen, this is terrible and
bé, doncs malgrat que estava editant
well, so despite the fact that I was editing
un informatiu i que això és difícil de
a news program and that this is difficult to
substituir, doncs sí, sí,
replace, so yes, yes,
em vaig anar cap a la guerra
I went off to war.
del golf. Sí, és una necessitat
from golf. Yes, it is a necessity
que he sentit sempre, no?
that I have always felt, right?
No d'anar a les guerres, sinó d'estar allà on passa
Not about going to wars, but about being there where it happens.
el que sigui, no?
Whatever it is, right?
El fet noticiable, si ho hem de
The noteworthy fact, if we have to
dir d'alguna forma, no? En aquell
say in some way, right? In that one
cas, doncs, era una guerra, però hi ha hagut altres
So, it was a war, but there have been others.
esdeveniments que també
events that also
doncs m'han semblat interessants d'anar-hi, no?
Well, I thought it would be interesting to go there, right?
Sempre és interessant per un periodista
It is always interesting for a journalist.
estar allà on passen les coses.
to be there where things happen.
La situació és de total normalitat
The situation is completely normal.
i res no fa pensar que la guerra
And nothing makes one think that the war.
del golf ha començat.
The golf has begun.
Els carrers estan poc transitats, com és
The streets are not very busy, as it is.
habitual en aquesta hora, i l'escassa activitat
usual at this hour, and the scarce activity
que hi ha es concentra als grans hotels.
What is there is concentrated in the large hotels.
Catalunya Ràdio en directe, la guerra contra
Catalonia Radio live, the war against
l'Iraq ja ha esclatat.
Iraq has already exploded.
El 1990 esclata la guerra del golf,
In 1990, the Gulf War broke out,
pocs dies abans que els americans llencesin
a few days before the Americans launched
l'operació Tempesta del Desert per recuperar
Operation Desert Storm to recover
Kuwait. I tu, com ens deies,
Kuwait. And you, as you were telling us,
ara mateix proposes anar-hi. Ja havies fet
Right now, I propose going there. Had you already done it?
diverses cobertures abans, però aquesta era
various covers before, but this one was
diferent, era anar a la guerra i anar-hi en un temps
different, it was to go to war and to go there in a certain time
incert. Et senties preparat?
Uncertain. Did you feel ready?
Estaves preparat? Bé, tu t'hi pots
Were you ready? Well, you can.
sentir, el problema és que no hi estàs, no?
sorry, the problem is that you're not there, right?
Això era l'any
That was the year.
90, vol dir que jo tenia
90, it means that I had
27 anys, em sembla. Era la teva primera
27 years, I think. Was it your first?
gran cobertura, diguéssim. Era la primera
great coverage, let's say. It was the first
meva gran cobertura, i era la
my great coverage, and it was the
primera vegada que Catalunya Ràdio enviava algú a la
first time that Catalunya Ràdio sent someone to the
guerra. Mai abans
war. Never before
ningú de la ràdio, la ràdio feia
nobody from the radio, the radio was making
molt pocs anys que caminava, havia anat a la guerra.
very few years after he walked, he had gone to war.
Nosaltres no teníem
We did not have.
gent amb qui emmirallar-nos,
people with whom to mirror ourselves,
altres professionals amb qui
other professionals with whom
no, doncs,
no, well,
que ens servissin d'alguna
that would be of some use to us
forma, doncs, de referent a l'hora
form, then, as a reference to the hour
de fer una cosa d'aquestes. Per tant,
to do something like this. Therefore,
clar, és que tot arrencava del
of course, it all started from the
no-res, com aquell que diu, no?
nothing, like someone would say, right?
El que és Catalunya Ràdio, evidentment, hi havia
What Catalunya Ràdio is, obviously, was there.
hagut altres emissores. Per nosaltres era la primera
there had been other broadcasters. For us, it was the first.
vegada que s'enviava algú a la guerra, no?
Every time someone was sent off to war, right?
Cap antecedent, no?
No background, right?
I tu marxes allà sol,
And you go there alone,
marxes pel teu compte, això avui en dia
you go on your own, that's nowadays
seria inviable. Marxes sol,
it would be unfeasible. You leave alone,
marxes sense assistència tècnica,
you leave without technical assistance,
i marxes a un lloc al qual no hi has anat mai,
and you are going to a place you have never been to,
i amb un conflicte que no saps
and with a conflict that you don't know.
de què t'estan parlant, no?
What are they talking to you about, right?
Sí, és a dir, que tot era un seguit d'interrogància.
Yes, that is to say, that it was all a series of questioning.
Ara, doncs, això
Now, then, this
ho intentéssim, però seria certament impossible,
we could try, but it would certainly be impossible,
perquè hi ha d'haver molts requisits
because there must be many requirements
de seguretat, has d'haver fet cursets
for security, you must have taken courses
de supervivència,
of survival,
en fi, has de passar molts filtres per poder fer
Well, you have to pass many filters to be able to do it.
una cosa d'aquestes, no? Però en aquell moment era així,
something like that, right? But at that moment it was like this,
de fàcil i de
easy and of
difícil a l'hora.
difficult at the time.
I tu, a terra-sol, com et mous?
And you, on ground-sun, how do you move?
Com cerques la informació? Com envies les cròniques
How do you search for information? How do you send the reports?
en aquesta època predigital?
in this pre-digital era?
Clar, en aquell moment, ja dic, els telèfons estaven
Sure, at that moment, I already said, the phones were
enganxats a les parets, funcionàvem
stuck to the walls, we functioned
amb màquina d'escriure, pràcticament,
with a typewriter, practically,
funcionàvem també
we also functioned
amb els departaments de premsa,
with the press departments,
amb els teletips, és a dir, tot un seguit
with the teletype, that is, a whole series
d'aparells que a molta gent
of devices that many people
que ens escolti, doncs, no sabrà de què
let us be heard, then, he/she will not know what it is about.
li estic parlant, haurà d'anar al Google,
I'm talking to you, you'll have to go to Google.
a fer una cerca, no?
to make a search, right?
I llavors, doncs, tu t'estableixes
And then, you establish yourself.
en un hotel
in a hotel
i a partir d'aquí intentes
and from here you try
veure on hi ha
see where there is
el centre de comandament
the command center
de la guerra, per dir-ho d'alguna forma, és a dir, sempre
of the war, so to speak, that is to say, always
intentes situar-te a l'hotel
you try to find your way to the hotel
on hi ha altres mitjans,
where there are other means,
alguna ONG,
some NGO,
hi ha hotels d'aquests que són punts que
there are hotels that are points that
esdevenen una mica la referència, on
they become somewhat the reference, where
doncs tothom que vol dir alguna cosa
so everyone who wants to say something
convoca les rodes de premsa
calls the press conferences
i
i
aquesta és una possibilitat. Quan no en saps
This is a possibility. When you don't know it.
està bé per començar. Després,
it's good to start. Then,
quan ja saps més el terreny que trepitges,
when you already know more the ground you walk on,
potser és millor
maybe it's better
separar-te del gruix de periodistes
separate yourself from the bulk of journalists
i fer la teva, perquè ja tens els teus contactes
And do your part, because you already have your contacts.
i ja saps a quina porta has de trucar
And you already know which door you have to knock on.
i a on t'has d'anar i com t'has de moure
and where you have to go and how you have to move
per obtenir informació.
to obtain information.
Això que sona ara mateix
This that is playing right now.
és la Dajo for Strings
it's the Dajo for Strings
del Samuel Berber.
of Samuel Berber.
Ara que parlaves de guerra
Now that you mentioned war.
i d'aquests sentiments, on et porta
and these feelings, where do they lead you
justament aquest tema?
just this topic?
Bé, aquest tema bàsicament
Well, this topic basically
em commou, no?
It moves me, doesn't it?
Quan parlem de conflictes armats
When we talk about armed conflicts
i de la tragèdia
and of the tragedy
que suposa qualsevol
what it implies for anyone
conflicte armat, no?
armed conflict, right?
És un tema,
It's a topic,
d'un dramatisme extraordinari
of extraordinary drama
que s'amplifica la tragèdia,
that amplifies the tragedy,
la desgràcia d'arribar a ser una guerra
the misfortune of becoming a war
que és quan, per mi, és
what is when, for me, is
quan l'home perd, no?
when the man loses, right?
Quan hi ha una guerra, és la demostració
When there is a war, it is the demonstration.
de la derrota de l'home, no?
of the defeat of man, right?
Com a tal. I
As such. I
m'evoca aquests
it evokes me these
conflictes, doncs, que
conflicts, then, that
per bé o per mal hem hagut de cobrir
for better or for worse, we have had to cover
des de la ràdio, i sobretot això,
from the radio, and especially this,
no? M'enfronta un sentiment
No? I'm faced with a feeling.
de profunda
of deep
desesperança davant d'una
despair in the face of a
guerra, no?, del final.
war, right?, at the end.
Ja no s'hi pot fer res més.
Nothing more can be done about it.
Hotel Palestina.
Hotel Palestine.
El podcast de Catalunya Ràdio,
The podcast of Catalunya Ràdio,
on reporters i reporteres expliquen
where reporters explain
l'altra cara del relat.
the other side of the story.
Jordi Magrinyà, cap de l'expedició
Jordi Magrinyà, head of the expedition.
a Banc de Sabadell, Alcador.
at Banc de Sabadell, Alcador.
En vista del que passa,
In light of what is happening,
l'expedició de Banc de Sabadell
the expedition of Banc de Sabadell
i l'expedició, com penses que trona
And the expedition, how do you think it thunders?
aquesta recta final per intentar
this final stretch to try
treixir Alcador?
What does Alcador mean?
Mira, jo cada dia em feia una pregunta, que és
Look, every day I would ask myself a question, which is
durant tot un estiu no tindrem
for a whole summer we will not have
cinc dies de bon temps?
five days of good weather?
Està molt estrany
It's very strange.
que no els tinguem, no?
that we don't have them, right?
Però bé, nosaltres encara mantenim
But well, we still maintain
les esperances i mantenim la mateixa
the hopes and we maintain the same
estratègia de dos grups de quatre persones
strategy of two groups of four people
alternant-se en un dia de diferència,
alternating on a day's difference,
però així
but like this
pugueu tindre dues possibilitats
you may have two options
de fer un possible atac.
to carry out a possible attack.
Continuem aquesta conversa,
Let's continue this conversation,
situats a l'Altaïr,
located at l'Altaïr,
on precisament darrere d'en Toni
we are right behind Toni
hi tenim molts llibres de muntanya.
We have many mountain books.
Situem aquest fragment que acabem d'escoltar.
Let’s situate this fragment that we have just heard.
Que la bona qualitat del son no ens confongui, tampoc.
Let the good quality of sleep not confuse us, either.
Estem a l'any 1988,
We are in the year 1988,
una època en la qual no existien
a time when they did not exist
ni telèfons mòbils, ni ordinadors
neither mobile phones nor computers
i encara menys internet.
and even less internet.
Aquesta connexió que escoltàvem venia del camp
This connection that we were listening to was coming from the countryside.
base d'Alcadors, a la glacera de Godwin Austin
Alcadors base, on the Godwin Austin glacier
a una altura de 5.150 metres.
at an altitude of 5,150 meters.
Com us plantegeu, Toni,
How do you propose, Toni,
retransmetre en directe l'ascens
broadcast live the promotion
d'una expedició catalana a Alcadors?
of a Catalan expedition to Alcadors?
Bé, això va ser a la Mísera, no vaig ser jo.
Well, that was at the Mísera, it wasn't me.
A mi, quan m'ho van dir
When they told me.
si volia anar, ja s'ho havien plantejat.
if they wanted to go, they had already considered it.
Bé, va ser una
Well, it was a
d'aquelles coses que s'ha de tenir
of those things that one must have
de sobte, no? Aquesta
suddenly, right? This
capacitat d'imaginar
capacity to imagine
coses i de
things and of
fer-les possibles, no? D'imaginar coses
make them possible, right? To imagine things
impossibles, perquè en aquell moment
impossible, because at that moment
doncs semblava impossible, no? Hi havia
well it seemed impossible, right? There was
cap antecedent, no s'havia fet mai.
No precedent, it had never been done before.
Era una mica
It was a little.
com el que parlàvem abans
like what we were talking about before
de la guerra del golf, no?
from the Gulf War, right?
Hi havia precedents, no? I doncs
There were precedents, weren't there? And then?
era córrer un seguit de riscos, però
it was to run a series of risks, but
els vam assumir, i quan em van dir a mi si
we took them on, and when they asked me if
jo no era al Departament
I was not in the Department.
d'Esports, no? Teòricament dius, bueno, si és
Of Sports, right? Theoretically you say, well, if it is
una expedició al Alcadors, que hi vagi algú d'Esports
an expedition to Alcadors, that someone from Sports goes there
i em van dir si volia anar, vaig dir que sí, ràpidament,
and they asked me if I wanted to go, I said yes, quickly,
evidentment, i
obviously, and
tot i saber, doncs això, que era un...
even though he knew, therefore this, that it was a...
que hi havia molts interrogants, no sabíem si
that there were many questions, we didn’t know if
l'equip que portàvem
the team we had
funcionaria, si el telèfon satèl·lit
would work, if the satellite phone
que portàvem, doncs, agafaria
what we were carrying, then, would take
senyal a la vall on estaríem
signal in the valley where we would be
enclotats, si
enclosed, yes
podíem connectar, si seríem capaços
we could connect, if we would be able
de fer 5 connexions diàries,
to make 5 daily connections,
podien haver-hi accidents, era
there could have been accidents, it was
tot molt, molt... Clar, jo havia
everything very, very... Sure, I had
fet muntanya, però no havia anat mai
made mountain, but had never gone before
a l'Himàlia, o al Caracorum, com és el cas,
in the Himalayas, or in the Karakoram, as is the case,
allò són paraules majors, és a dir,
that is serious talk, that is to say,
penseu que la marxa
do you think that the march
d'aproximació eren 11 dies en aquell moment,
the approximation was 11 days at that time,
actualment són menys.
currently they are fewer.
Amb molt de pes, a més a més. Bé,
With a lot of weight, moreover. Well,
nosaltres portàvem poc pes, perquè
we were carrying little weight, because
portàvem... Cada expedicionari
We carried... Each expedition member
tenia assignat un portador
I had a bearer assigned.
que li portava el seu equip.
that his team brought him.
Tu portaves allò que podies
You carried what you could.
necessitar durant un dia, aigua,
need water for a day,
un impermeable per si plovia,
a raincoat just in case it rained,
una mica de menjar,
a little bit of food,
però res més. Potser portaves
but nothing more. Maybe you brought
10 quilos
10 kilos
i poca cosa més, i la resta
and not much else, and the rest
la portava el portador, que no havies de
the carrier was carrying it, which you didn't have to
perdre de vista, no fos cas que no
lose sight of, just in case not
arribés el teu equip en el
your team arrived in the
següent campament, no? Però, esclar, 11 dies
Next camp, right? But, of course, 11 days.
a peu, després muntar el camp base
on foot, then set up the base camp
5.150, fer les
5.150, make the
connexions, va ser...
connections, it was...
En fi, una...
Well, a...
una expedició amb tota regla. Penseu que
a full-fledged expedition. Think that
les fotografies, no sé si n'heu vist
the photographs, I don't know if you have seen them
alguna, alguna foto
some, some photo
més o menys aèria, feta des d'algun turó
more or less airy, made from some hill
de clars, es veu una cua,
of clear skies, you can see a tail,
una regla, com si fos una cua de formigues,
a rule, as if it were an ant's tail,
no? Perquè hi havia gairebé 300
No? Because there were almost 300.
portegedors. Era com les expedicions del
porters. It was like the expeditions of the
Livingstone del segle
Livingstone of the century
XIX, doncs, a Àfrica, no?
XIX, then, to Africa, right?
És una expedició com
It's an expedition like
les d'abans, no? I al final,
the ones from before, right? And in the end,
després de tres mesos, passa això.
after three months, this happens.
El trekking s'ho prevís quedar-se
The trekking is intended to stay.
dos dies al camp base de l'expedició.
two days at the base camp of the expedition.
Al final, no s'aconsegueix fer el cim.
In the end, the summit is not reached.
Tu, anys després, escrius un
You, years later, write one.
llibre sobre aquesta aventura on ja s'intueix
book about this adventure where it is already hinted at
el desenllaç, amb el títol, no?
the ending, with the title, right?
Massal pels nostres somnis.
Massal for our dreams.
Era això, Toni, era massal, el somni era
It was that, Toni, it was massive, the dream was
massa ambiciós, mala sort,
too ambitious, bad luck,
jo crec que estava a l'abast de l'expedició.
I believe it was within the reach of the expedition.
S'ho va muntar una expedició amb grans alpinistes,
An expedition was organized with great mountaineers,
amb alpinistes de primer nivell, per tant,
with top-level climbers, therefore,
tècnicament, doncs,
technically, then,
estava a l'abast. El que passa és que,
it was within reach. What happens is that,
tal com explicàvem en les cròniques,
as we explained in the chronicles,
doncs, el Cados té un
well, Cados has a
microclima que fa molt difícil que
microclimate that makes it very difficult for
tinguis una finestra de quatre o cinc
you have a window of four or five
dies de bon temps, que era el que calia per fer cim,
days of good weather, which was what was needed to reach the summit,
no? La gent estava preparada, la gent
No? The people were prepared, the people.
estava allà on s'havia d'estar
I was where I had to be.
esperant aquesta finestra de temps, que finalment,
waiting for this window of time, which finally,
doncs, no va aparèixer el dia que es va fer l'atac final
well, he didn't appear on the day the final attack was made
i va haver-hi una ventada,
and there was a strong wind,
i pel vent no es va poder
And because of the wind, it couldn't be done.
culminar el cim, no? Per això
to reach the summit, right? That's why.
la muntanya, al final, doncs, va acabar
the mountain, in the end, therefore, ended up
sent massa alta
feeling too high
pels nostres somnis. Bé, de fet,
for our dreams. Well, in fact,
pels alpinistes, pels somnis dels
for the climbers, for the dreams of the
alpinistes, perquè per la ràdio sí que es va complir
mountaineers, because it was indeed fulfilled over the radio.
el somni. Nosaltres vam
the dream. We went
fer el nostre cim, que era arribar al camp base,
to reach our summit, which was to arrive at base camp,
muntar l'estudi de ràdio
set up the radio studio
més alt que ha tingut mai
taller than ever before
la ràdio en la seva història, a 5.150
the radio in its history, at 5,150
metres, i fer
meters, and do
les connexions que havíem de fer. Nosaltres
the connections we had to make. We
vam fer el cim.
we reached the summit.
Una notícia d'altra banda
Another news item
més esperada que
more expected than
les darreres setmanes. Els indicis
the last weeks. The signs
que es podia produir
that could be produced
d'un moment a l'altre creixien.
They were growing from one moment to the next.
De moment, al Pakistan no s'ha produït
So far, nothing has happened in Pakistan.
cap reacció pel començament dels bombardejos
no reaction to the start of the bombings
nord-americans. De nou, a la tardor del
North Americans. Again, in the fall of
2001, marxes a Pakistan i
2001, you leave for Pakistan and
a l'Afganistan, quan els Estats Units
In Afghanistan, when the United States
decideixen atacar el regent dels
they decide to attack the steward of the
talibans, i
Talibans, and
a partir d'aquí, expliques en el teu
From here, explain in your own.
llibre que vas, marxes una mica amb el cor
book that you go, you leave a little with the heart
dividit, no? Marxes amb aquell cor dividit de dir
divided, right? You leave with that divided heart to say
no vols marxar per deixar la gent que estimes d'aquí,
you don't want to leave to let the people you love from here,
però, per l'altra banda, tu ets
but, on the other hand, you are
un proletari d'aquests de terreny, no?,
a proletarian of these land, right?
d'anar a trepitjar el que passa
of going to tread on what happens
i explicar des de sobre terreny.
and explain from the ground up.
Això és, clar,
This is, of course,
l'altre vessant de les persones
the other side of people
que fan cobertura de conflictes, no?, que és
that cover conflicts, right?, what is it?
la gent que deixes a casa, no?,
the people you leave at home, right?
la teva dona, els teus fills, no?
your wife, your children, right?
Això és un fet difícil,
This is a difficult fact,
suposo que cadascú, doncs, ho porta com
I suppose that each person handles it in their own way.
pot, no?, com sap,
it can, right?, as you know,
però sí, sí, és una faceta que no s'explica,
but yes, yes, it's a facet that cannot be explained,
però que existeix. Cada vegada que tu
but that exists. Every time you
te'n vas a un lloc en conflicte, hi ha
you are going to a conflict area, there is
algú que es queda a casa esperant
someone who stays at home waiting
amb la incertesa de què passa, no?, perquè,
with the uncertainty of what is happening, right?, because,
doncs, moltes vegades parlen amb la Carmina,
well, many times they talk to Carmina,
amb la meva dona, no?, em deia,
with my wife, right?, she was telling me,
diu, ja sé que em truques cada dia, però, esclar,
he says, I know that you call me every day, but, of course,
des que penges el telèfon fins que em tornes a
from when you hang up the phone until you call me back
trucar, jo no sé què t'està
call, I don't know what it's about
passant, no?, i has d'intentar
passing, right?, and you have to try
posar-te en la pell d'aquesta gent que
put yourself in the shoes of these people who
pateix, no?, quan fas una cosa
It hurts, doesn't it, when you do something?
d'aquestes.
of these.
Clar, d'altra banda, si deixes de fer-la,
Of course, on the other hand, if you stopped doing it,
deixes de ser tu, perquè tu ets
you cease to be you, because you are
en funció del que fas, no?,
depending on what you do, right?
això és el que et constitueix com a persona,
this is what constitutes you as a person,
no?, i és un,
no?, and it is a,
és un, és una assignatura
it is a, it is a subject
difícil d'enllestir,
difficult to complete,
d'aprovar. Durant aquesta cobertura,
to approve. During this coverage,
precisament, aquesta, amb un pas fronterer
precisely, this one, with a border crossing
entre Pakistan i Afganistan, patiu
between Pakistan and Afghanistan, suffer
una situació complicada.
a complicated situation.
Sí, m'agradaria...
Yes, I would like to...
No sé què us passa, i si és en aquests moments
I don't know what’s happening to you, and if it's at this moment.
on tens por i et planteges coses, o no?
When you are scared, do you think about things, or not?
No, por no, jo no n'he tingut.
No, for no, I haven't had any.
Si tens por, no hi has d'anar, tot i
If you are scared, you don't have to go there, even though
que periodistes experimentats i
that experienced journalists and
corresponsals de guerra experimentats
experienced war correspondents
i savis
and wise
sempre diuen que
they always say that
la por i el pànic
fear and panic
no es poden predir, i sempre
they cannot be predicted, and always
et poden
they can you
atrapar, no?, quan menys
catch, right?, at least
t'ho esperes. És a dir que, més val no
You expect it. That is to say, it's better not to.
fer-te el valent amb aquestes coses, perquè no saps
be brave with these things, because you don't know
mai com poden anar, no? I en aquest
Never as they can go, right? And in this
cas, suposo que et refereixes al conflicte
case, I suppose you are referring to the conflict
del 2001,
from 2001,
doncs, quan els nord-americans
well, when the North Americans
bombardegen Afganistan
they bomb Afghanistan
i els talibans a Kandahar,
and the Taliban in Kandahar,
doncs, ens vam
well, we went
acostar, cada dia ens acostàvem a la frontera
approach, every day we got closer to the border.
compartida entre el Paquistan i l'Afganistan,
shared between Pakistan and Afghanistan,
perquè com que nosaltres no podíem
because since we could not
entrar-hi, doncs, per parlar amb la gent que
to get involved, then, to talk with the people who
en sortia, per veure quina era la situació, no?
He went out to see what the situation was, right?
I va haver-hi un dia
There was a day
que anàvem arribant i ja vam
that we were arriving and we already did
veure, doncs, que les coses no
to see, then, that things do not
eren com la resta de dies.
they were like the rest of the days.
Hi havia grups de
There were groups of
paquistanesos i d'afganesos, hi havia un ambient
Pakistanis and Afghans, there was an atmosphere.
enrerit, no sabria dir-vos per què,
Enraged, I wouldn't be able to tell you why.
no? I, efectivament, ja vam
No? I, in fact, we already did.
veure, doncs, que de sobte li robaven
to see, then, that suddenly they were stealing from him
el mocador a un periodista,
the handkerchief to a journalist,
l'encerclaven,
they surrounded him/her,
el feien que
they made him that
correés, no?, per atrapar
You ran, right?, to catch up.
el seu mocador
his/her handkerchief
i després van començar a llençar-nos
and then they started throwing us
pedres, no? Van començar a trencar els vidres
Stones, right? They started breaking the windows.
d'alguns dels cotxes
of some of the cars
i vam sortir per cames,
and we ran away,
literalment, quan vam arrencar, a l'últim
literally, when we started, at the last
instant, un roc va
instant, a rock goes
impactar contra el vidre de darrere
to hit the rear window
de la nostra furgoneta, que per sort no es va
from our van, which fortunately did not go
trencar perquè hi havia una escaleta d'aquelles que puja
to break because there was a ladder that goes up
al sostre, no? Però hi van haver periodistes,
to the ceiling, right? But there were journalists,
per exemple, el Robert Fisk, que era
for example, Robert Fisk, who was
un periodista experimentat de l'Independent
an experienced journalist from the Independent
Veritànic, li van obrir el cap, li van trencar
Veritànic, they opened his head, they broke him.
les ulleres, no? I l'endemà estava a l'hotel
The glasses, right? And the next day I was at the hotel.
amb un esparadrap al cap, no? Sí, sí.
with a bandage on the head, right? Yes, yes.
I quan et trobes
And when do you meet?
o passes moments d'aquests, que segur
or you'll have moments like these, I'm sure
que no és l'únic, et planteja
that it is not the only one, it poses to you
si val la pena fer aquest tipus
if it is worth doing this type
de cobertures?
of covers?
Mira, un periodista mort no és periodista.
Look, a dead journalist is not a journalist.
Per tant, has de ser molt prudent,
Therefore, you must be very careful,
penso, a l'hora de
I think, when it comes to
trepitjar aquest terreny.
to tread on this ground.
També és cert que,
It is also true that,
en el llibre que ho explico,
in the book where I explain it,
que amb l'experiència, la poca
that with experience, the little
experiència que jo tenia, doncs,
experience that I had, then,
veia que si volies explicar un conflicte
I saw that if you wanted to explain a conflict
havies d'estar allà on passaven
you had to be there where it happened
les coses, no? Si volies explicar el patiment
The things, right? If you wanted to explain the suffering.
de la gent, has d'estar on cauen les bombes,
of the people, you have to be where the bombs fall,
d'alguna forma. No vol dir que t'hagis
in some way. It doesn't mean that you have to
de convertir en Diana
to become Diana
de les bombes, no?
of the bombs, right?
Però sí que, si vols
But yes, if you want.
ser èticament correcte,
to be ethically correct,
doncs crec que és un deure de fer-ho,
so I think it is a duty to do it,
no? D'alguna manera.
No? In some way.
Bé,
Well,
i llavors has de vigilar molt i molt, doncs,
and then you have to be very, very careful, then,
en què no
in what not
acabis sent una víctima. Crec que és
you end up being a victim. I think it is
el Marc Maginedes que parla a vegades
Marc Maginedes who sometimes speaks.
de risc calculat, no?
of calculated risk, right?
Sempre has de fer un
You always have to do one.
càlcul de riscos de fins on
risk assessment to what extent
t'has d'acostar i quanta estona t'hi pots
You have to get closer, and how long can you stay there?
estar. Però sempre hi ha imprevissos perquè,
to be. But there are always unexpected events because,
evidentment, estàs en un territori de
obviously, you are in a territory of
guerra i pots estar sopant en un
war and you can be having dinner in a
restaurant i que et caigui un missil balístic.
restaurant and a ballistic missile falls on you.
És a dir, això no ho saps mai. Mai tindràs
That is to say, you never know this. You will never have.
la certesa que no et passarà res, evidentment.
the certainty that nothing will happen to you, obviously.
Com tampoc la tens en la vida real.
As you don't have it in real life either.
Per fer aquesta cobertura portaves
To make this coverage, you wore
dues gravadores, per si una no funcionava,
two recorders, in case one didn't work,
un minidisc, per si no funcionaven
a minidisc, in case they didn't work
les gravadores, dos micròfons,
the recorders, two microphones,
per si no funcionava tota la resta,
just in case the rest didn't work,
cables i bateries de tota mena,
cables and batteries of all kinds,
telèfon mòbil, telèfon satèl·lit, per quan no
mobile phone, satellite phone, for when not
hi hagués cobertura, ordinador portàtil,
there would be coverage, laptop,
llibretes i bolígraf, per si no hi havia
notebooks and pen, in case there weren't any
corrent. No ho has carregat com un ruc, sí.
running. You haven't loaded it like a donkey, yes.
Si vols dir això, sí. Desapercebut
If you mean that, yes. Unnoticed.
no devies passar. No, no passava desapercebut.
You shouldn't have passed. No, it didn't go unnoticed.
Clar, era l'època en què anàvem sols
Of course, it was the time when we went alone.
a cobrir, a fer aquesta mena de cobertures.
to cover, to make this kind of coverings.
Després, a partir del
After, from the
tsunami, aquell tsunami
tsunami, that tsunami
que va afectar una dotzena de països, que hi van haver
that affected a dozen countries, that there were
250.000 morts, si no recordo malament,
250,000 dead, if I remember correctly,
a la ràdio es va
at the radio it is going
decidir fer les cobertures
decide to make the covers
amb l'assistència d'un
with the assistance of one
company d'exteriors.
outdoor company.
I a partir d'aquell moment, doncs, tots els
And from that moment on, then, all the
conflictes o altra mena de cobertures
conflicts or other types of coverage
ja s'han fet amb periodista i
they have already made with journalist and
assistència tècnica. Però inicialment
technical assistance. But initially
si era això, anaves amb tot carregat com un ruc,
if that was the case, you went loaded like a mule,
amb el teu
with your
menjar,
to eat,
amb la roba de recanvi,
with the spare clothes,
amb les llibretes per escriure,
with the notebooks to write,
perquè les cròniques les escrivies a mà
because you wrote the chronicles by hand
en una llibreta, no en una pantalla d'ordinador,
in a notebook, not on a computer screen,
i amb tota la parafernària
and with all the fanfare
que has explicat, que has definit,
what you have explained, what you have defined,
que has descrit.
What you have described.
Aquest programa es diu Hotel Palestina, però es podria dir
This program is called Hotel Palestina, but it could be called
perfectament Hotel Marriott,
perfectly Hotel Marriott,
o Hotel Dislamabat, on
or Hotel Dislamabat, where
conviviu la majoria de corresponsals que cobriu
you coexist with most of the correspondents you covered
aquesta guerra. Com era aquella convivència
this war. What was that coexistence like
aleshores, Toni? Hi havia
So, Toni? There was
una certa...
a certain...
Quan estàs en aquestes situacions,
When you are in these situations,
el que jo vaig viure
what I experienced
és
it is
molta cordialitat, perquè estàs
a lot of cordiality, because you are
en un lloc en perill, i quan hi ha
in a dangerous place, and when there is
perill al voltant, la gent s'ajunta
danger around, people gather
i s'ajuda, però, clar,
and it helps, but, of course,
no hem d'oblidar que eren periodistes. Llavors
we must not forget that they were journalists. Then
tu podies esmorzar amb el
you could have breakfast with him
corresponsal, l'enviat especial de Ràdio
correspondent, the special envoy of Radio
Nacional i el del País, i tothom explicava,
National and that of the Country, and everyone was explaining,
però ningú et deia què faria aquell dia.
but no one told you what they would do that day.
En tot cas, si et comentaven
In any case, if they mentioned to you
alguna cosa, era una cosa que ja havien fet.
Something, it was something they had already done.
No fos cas que tu se t'ensengués
Lest it might happen that you get hurt.
la llumeta i fessis el mateix i els eixafessis
the little light and you would do the same and squash them
aquella informació.
that information.
Per tant, hi ha
Therefore, there is
una relació de cordialitat la major part
a relationship of cordiality most of the time
del temps, però ser sempre
of time, but always be
de prudència, també, i de pensar
of caution, too, and of thinking
que treballes per un mitjà i, per tant,
that you work for a medium and, therefore,
has de ser prudent amb allò
You have to be cautious with that.
que expliques.
what you explain.
Toni, hem demanat a una persona
Toni, we have asked a person.
que ens faci un retrat sonor
let us make a sound portrait
i, per tant, l'escoltem.
And therefore, we listen to him/her.
El primer record d'en Toni el tinc
I have the first memory of Toni.
com a oient de Catalunya Ràdio. Recordo
as a listener of Catalunya Ràdio. I remember
aquells diumenges al matí, a la segona meitat
those Sunday mornings, in the second half
dels anys 90, escoltant-lo
from the 90s, listening to it
des del llit quan em transportava
from the bed when it transported me
a llocs remots del planeta amb el seu magnífic
to remote places on the planet with its magnificent
programa, els viatgers de la Gran Anaconda,
program, the travelers of the Great Anaconda,
per cert, Premi RAC, el millor programa
By the way, RAC Award, the best program.
del 2006. La veritat és que no sabria
from 2006. The truth is that I wouldn't know
dir si en Toni és abans viatger que reporter,
say if Toni is more of a traveler than a reporter,
no ho sé, de debò. Crec que les dues coses
I don't know, really. I think both things.
se li solapen, les té entortolligades
they overlap, they are entangled.
de manera que no són destriables.
so they are not distinguishable.
Quan he viatjat amb ell ens hem mirat de roull
When I have traveled with him, we have looked at each other sideways.
quan miràvem i escoltàvem algun personatge
when we looked at and listened to some character
del carrer en el seu dia a dia. M'atreveixo
from the street in their daily life. I dare
a dir que li encanta la vida quotidiana de la gent,
to say that he loves the daily life of people,
com una manera d'explicar la realitat.
as a way of explaining reality.
De fet, crec que aquest element sempre el té present
In fact, I believe that this element is always in mind.
a les seves cròniques, i sovint defuig
in his chronicles, and often avoids
de parlar amb càrrecs polítics quan cobreix
of speaking with political officials when covering
esdeveniments sobre el terreny per prioritzar
events on the ground to prioritize
parlar amb la gent del carrer. Jo us ho diré
talking to people on the street. I will tell you.
si ho faig jo. Però d'en Toni recordo
If I do it myself. But I remember Toni.
les llargues hores compartides a la secció
the long hours shared in the section
d'Internacional, transportant-nos
of International, transporting us
a llocs llunyans llegint els teletips de Reuters
to distant places reading Reuters teletype
o France Press. Llocs llunyans
O France Press. Distant places
com els que ha descrit sovint a les seves cròniques.
like those he has often described in his chronicles.
L'arbonès és el millor
L'Arbonès is the best.
fent descripcions de paisatges i personatges.
making descriptions of landscapes and characters.
Crec que no hi ha ningú que el superi.
I believe there is no one who surpasses him.
I a la ràdio, on no hi ha imatges de cap mena,
And on the radio, where there are no images of any kind,
és un do que moltes vegades no se li ha
it is a gift that many times has not been
valorat prou. Quan et descriu un lloc
valued enough. When it describes a place
te l'imagines, el visualitzes
can you imagine it, do you visualize it?
escoltant-lo, te'l fa present.
Listening to him, brings him to mind.
Ara bé, en Toni sempre ha tingut fama
Well, Toni has always had a reputation.
de fer cròniques més aviat generoses, em refereixo
I mean, to write more rather generous chronicles.
a la llargada. Un tema vital
in the length. A vital topic
quan la teva crònica ha de satisfer els desitjos
when your chronicle has to satisfy desires
de l'editor que volen que vi en un
from the editor they want me to live in one
informatiu més temes dels recomanables.
informative more recommended topics.
Sí, en Toni mai ha estat bo en això de les
Yes, Toni has never been good at that.
donades. La meva teoria és que no ha
given. My theory is that it has not
volgut, no és que no hagi pogut, sinó que no
Beloved, it's not that I couldn't, but rather that I didn't.
ha volgut adaptar-se al món de
has wanted to adapt to the world of
format TikTok, on les cròniques
TikTok format, where the chronicles are.
de 30 segons ja es consideren massa
30 seconds are already considered too much.
llargues.
long.
El Quim Olivares.
The Quim Olivares.
En Quim parla de les teves descripcions,
In Quim talks about your descriptions,
diu que ets el millor d'escriure
says you are the best at writing
paisatges, llocs, escenaris, persones
landscapes, places, settings, people
i que això de la durada de les cròniques no
And that this about the duration of the chronicles no.
ho portes massa bé. No sé si estaries d'acord.
You're handling it too well. I don't know if you would agree.
Totalment d'acord, de fet
Totally agree, in fact.
tenia un sobrenom a la redacció, era
I had a nickname in the editorial office, it was
el reporter Rapsoda,
the reporter Rapsoda,
que és un tipus de periodisme que no és
that is a type of journalism that is not
gaire comú, però sí, sí,
quite uncommon, but yes, yes,
el reporter Rapsoda, i era
the reporter Rapsoda, and it was
per això, perquè
for that reason, because
no hi havia forma de
there was no way to
fer el minut que et demanaven, els 40 segons,
make the minute they asked you, the 40 seconds,
clar, penseu, un ràdio es treballa
Of course, think about it, a radio is worked on.
amb molt poc temps, no? I
In very little time, right? And
amb aquest temps has de ser capaç
with this time you must be able
d'escriure, de donar la informació
to write, to give the information
pura i dura, però també
pure and hard, but also
de donar context, el context
to provide context, the context
d'aquella informació.
of that information.
Joan Steinbeck diu que
Joan Steinbeck says that
les petites coses són el fonament
The little things are the foundation.
de les grans coses, no? Per mi,
of the big things, right? For me,
jo ja estic totalment d'acord amb aquesta afirmació,
I completely agree with this statement.
és a dir, si ens perdem els matisos,
that is to say, if we miss the nuances,
no podem entendre de cap
we cannot understand in any way
forma el titular. I, per tant,
form the headline. And therefore,
jo sempre he estat molt reaci
I have always been very reluctant.
a prescindir
to do without
dels matisos, no?
of the nuances, right?
Me'n recordo que fa molts anys, a vegades,
I remember that many years ago, sometimes,
em creuava en un cap de programes
I was crossing paths with a program director.
que vam tenir, m'aturava i em deia
that we had, I would stop and say to myself
Arbonès, entrevistes d'una hora
Arbonès, one-hour interviews
ja no se'n fan, ara 10 minuts.
They are no longer made, now 10 minutes.
I jo li deia, sí, sí,
And I said to him, yes, yes,
quan vulguis en parlem, vinc al despatx,
Whenever you want, we can talk, I'll come to the office.
però sempre pensava que mai arribaria el moment,
but I always thought that the moment would never arrive,
perquè tenia moltes altres coses molt més importants
because I had many other things much more important
que no pas parlar de les meves
that doesn't mean talking about my ones
entrevistes. I, efectivament, vaig seguir
interviews. And, indeed, I followed
fent les meves entrevistes, que encara són
doing my interviews, which are still
entrevistes de 47 minuts. Bé, 47 minuts
47-minute interviews. Well, 47 minutes.
és el que s'emet,
it is what is broadcast,
perquè la llarga del programa
because of the length of the program
m'obliga a fer
forces me to do
un tema determinat, però, de fet, faig entrevistes
A specific topic, however, in fact, I conduct interviews.
de més d'una hora. Sí. I haig de dir
more than an hour. Yes. And I have to say
que hi ha influencers que fan entrevistes de 3 hores.
that there are influencers who do 3-hour interviews.
Sí. I que tenen un èxit,
Yes. And they are successful,
tenen milions de
they have millions of
seguidors. Per tant, no devia estar tan
followers. Therefore, it shouldn't have been that
equivocat en fer les coses llargues.
wrong in doing things lengthily.
L'any 1985, viatges a Etiòpia,
In 1985, trips to Ethiopia,
en un moment on hi ha una
at a time when there is a
passa de fam de dimensions majúscules.
it passes in hunger of large dimensions.
Explicar aquest tipus de cobertures
Explain this type of coverage.
et marca en la teva carrera professional?
does it mark your professional career?
Com ho vius, allò?
How do you experience that?
Sí que et marquen. Moltes vegades no n'ets conscient,
Yes, they do mark you. Many times you are not aware of it,
però sí que et deixen una petja.
but they do leave a mark on you.
Jo sempre me'n recordaré,
I will always remember.
d'aquesta cobertura. Clar, és l'any
of this coverage. Of course, it is the year
85, vol dir que Catalunya Ràdio
85 means that Catalunya Ràdio.
tot just feia 3 anys que caminava,
he had just been walking for 3 years.
es va fer una recapta
a collection was made
d'ajuda humanitària a Catalunya.
humanitarian aid in Catalonia.
A la ràdio em van dir, el director que hi havia
On the radio they told me, the director who was there.
llavors em va dir, mira, aquesta gent
then he told me, look, these people
volen anar a portar l'ajuda
they want to go deliver the aid
humanitària per demostrar a tots els donants
humanitarian to show all the donors
que aquell menjar
that food
que han donat ha arribat a la seva
what they have given has reached its
destinació. Hi ha un avió, si
destination. There is a plane, yes
aconsegueixes plaça, doncs
you get a spot, then
te n'hi vas. I jo vaig aconseguir plaça
You are leaving. And I managed to get a spot.
i me n'hi vaig anar.
And I went there.
I recordo que vam visitar un camp de refugiats
I remember that we visited a refugee camp.
on, quan hi vam ser, morien
there, when we were there, they were dying
10 persones diàriament
10 people daily
gent que vivia a les muntanyes,
people who lived in the mountains,
s'havien quedat, doncs,
they had agreed, then,
sense pastures, se'ls havia
without pastures, they had been
mort el bestiar, s'havien quedat sense mitjans
the livestock dead, they had been left without resources
de subsistència i no els havia quedat
of subsistence and they had not been left.
cap més remei que baixar de les muntanyes i anar
no other remedy than to descend from the mountains and go
a petar, doncs, aquests camps de refugiats. Molts
to burst, then, these refugee camps. Many
arribaven desnudrits, tan desnudrits que ja
they arrived undressed, so undressed that already
eren irrecuperables, no?
They were irretrievable, weren't they?
Era la segona gran passa de fam
It was the second great famine.
que hi havia
what there was
hagut els darrers anys. Abans hi havia hagut
in recent years. There had been before
la de Biafra, a Nigèria, també molt
the one in Biafra, in Nigeria, also very much
que va ser molt coneguda,
that became very well known,
se'n va parlar molt aquí a Europa,
it was talked about a lot here in Europe,
i després aquesta d'Etiòpia.
and then this one from Ethiopia.
L'Etiòpia era terrible. Recordo
Ethiopia was terrible. I remember.
també un dia que vam anar
also one day that we went
a presenciar un
to witness a
repartiment de sacs
distribution of bags
de gra per poblacions
of grain for populations
remotes, i vam anar amb un helicòpter,
we went with a helicopter,
ens van deixar amb una esplanada, i llavors
they left us with a clearing, and then
els avions Hèrcules
the Hercules planes
feien drops, que en deien, és a dir,
they made drops, as they called them, that is to say,
baixaven amb molt baixa alçada
they were flying very low
i per la comporta del darrere llençaven sacs,
and they were throwing sacks through the back gate,
de manera que molts s'esbarlaven
so that many became agitated
al caure amb l'impacte amb el terra.
upon hitting the ground.
Llavors, quan es va acabar el repartiment
Then, when the distribution was over.
d'ajuda humanitària, van deixar
of humanitarian aid, they left
que la gent dels pobles del voltant
that the people from the surrounding villages
accedís al camp, i la gent recollia
he entered the field, and the people gathered
els granets que havien quedat escampats
the grains that had been left scattered
per aquella esplanada. No ens podem
for that clearing. We cannot
imaginar el que és Patifam.
imagine what Patifam is.
Hotel Palestina, presentat
Hotel Palestina, presented
per Marc Gomes i David Fonseca.
for Marc Gomes and David Fonseca.
N'informa des d'Odessa
Reports from Odessa.
els enviats espacials de Catalunya
the space envoys of Catalonia
a ràdio Toni Arbonès i José Antonio Muñoz.
the radio Toni Arbonès and José Antonio Muñoz.
Les mines navals a la deriva
Drifting naval mines
al Mar Negre, a conseqüència de la
in the Black Sea, as a result of the
invasió russa d'Ucraïna, fan perillar
Russian invasion of Ukraine, endangering.
seriosament la navegació
seriously the navigation
i amenaçen les comunitats costaneres
they threaten coastal communities
de la regió d'Odessa.
from the region of Odessa.
Una de les últimes cobertures que has fet ha estat a Ucraïna
One of the latest reports you have done has been in Ukraine.
i arribes en un moment on ja pràcticament
and you arrive at a moment where practically
hi ha totes les cadenes i mitjans
there are all the chains and media
d'informació del món. Com s'explica
of information about the world. How is it explained
una guerra en aquestes condicions
a war under these conditions
on ja sembla tot explicat?
Is everything already explained?
En aquesta guerra no vaig buscar el centre de comandament.
In this war, I did not seek the command center.
Em vaig llotjar
I went to the lodge.
en un hotelet i
in a small hotel and
vaig fer la guerra pel meu compte, com si diguéssim,
I fought the war on my own, so to speak,
amb una noia, amb la Victòria,
with a girl, with Victòria,
que em feia de traductora
that made me a translator
i a vegades amb el seu
and sometimes with his/her
nebot, que era un nano
nephew, who was a kid
molt, molt ficat en l'ajuda
very, very involved in helping
al front de guerra,
at the front of the war,
que anava vestit de militar com si ho fos,
he was dressed like a soldier as if he were one,
però que no l'havien mobilitzat
but they had not mobilized him
per un problema de sobrepès en els genolls,
due to a weight problem in the knees,
llavors ell no podia anar-hi.
then he couldn't go there.
I, doncs, amb ells ens movíem
And so, with them we moved.
i anàvem allà on consideràvem
and we went where we thought
que podíem explicar alguna cosa.
that we could explain something.
En aquest cas, a mi sempre m'ha agradat explicar
In this case, I have always liked to explain.
la rereguerra,
the rewar,
no tant el que és el front
not so much what the front is
de guerra, de si han caigut
of war, of whether they have fallen
tres missils o quatre
three missiles or four
sinó quin és l'impacte de la guerra
but what is the impact of the war
en una societat que és com la nostra,
in a society that is like ours,
que de sobte algú
that suddenly someone
comença a bombardejar-la.
start bombing it.
De quina forma afecta la vida de les persones?
How does it affect people's lives?
Què fan la gent que té mascotes?
What do people with pets do?
Què fa la gent que fuig,
What do the people who flee do,
que ha de fugir d'un dia per l'altre
who has to flee from one day to the next
amb una maleta
with a suitcase
i anar-se'n
and leave
a no sé sap on, perquè la gent
to I don't know where, because people
en aquells primers moments
in those first moments
fugia absolutament
it was absolutely fleeing
desencaixada,
dislocated,
sense saber què estava passant,
without knowing what was happening,
ni què seria de la seva vida,
nor what would become of her life,
ni si podria tornar al cap de tres dies
nor could I return after three days
o ja no tornaria mai més.
or would never come back again.
Per tant, intentava sempre
Therefore, I always tried
retratar aquestes
depict these
vivències.
experiences.
Què passa a la ciutat quan de sobte
What happens in the city when suddenly
sonen les alertes,
the alarms sound,
les alarmes antiaèries?
the anti-aircraft alarms?
Què passa amb comunitats
What happens with communities
religioses diferents?
different religions?
Què passa amb els jueus
What happens with the Jews?
de Nipro? Què passa amb la gent
From Dnipro? What's going on with the people?
que va viure o que continua vivint
that lived or that continues living
en un edifici que ha quedat
in a building that has remained
amb la meitat arrencat
with half torn off
per un míssil rus?
for a Russian missile?
Què és l'altra guerra?
What is the other war?
Que és la guerra que sembla que no existeixi
What is the war that seems not to exist?
però que existeix.
but that exists.
A Ucraïna, en aquest moment,
In Ukraine, at this moment,
fa dos anys que la gent viu
Two years ago, people live.
constantment sota les alertes
constantly under the alerts
de bombardejos i els que tenen
of bombings and those who have
mala sort, doncs sota les bombes
bad luck, then under the bombs
directament. Veient com
directly. Seeing how
pares, germans, fills
parents, siblings, children
es moren al front de batalla amb xifres
they die on the battlefield with numbers
que no s'han fet mai públiques però que tots
that have never been made public but that everyone
ens podem imaginar, perquè és una guerra
we can imagine, because it is a war
absolutament,
absolutely,
absolutament salvatge, no?
absolutely wild, isn't it?
Tant per Rússia com per Ucraïna. És una guerra
Both for Russia and for Ukraine. It's a war.
fratricida, no? Entre gent que havia
Fratricidal, right? Among people who had
format part de la
part of the
Unió Soviètica, no? El mateix. Per tant,
Soviet Union, right? The same. Therefore,
recordo el primer viatge
I remember the first trip.
que no vam entrar, que vam anar a la frontera
that we didn't enter, that we went to the border
per veure com sortia la gent, com fugia
to see how people were coming out, how they were fleeing
la gent, i la gent sortia
the people, and the people were coming out
absolutament estorada
absolutely astonished
perquè els familiars que tenia a Rússia
because the relatives I had in Russia
no es creien el que ells els explicaven.
they did not believe what they were being told.
Això va provocar, aquí sí que
This caused, here yes that
hi van haver trencaments de famílies,
there were breakups of families,
no? De gent,
no? Of people,
que tenia part de la família de Rússia
that had part of the family from Russia
i aquesta gent que vivien a Rússia
and these people who lived in Russia
no podien admetre que Putin
they could not admit that Putin
estigués enviant missils
was sending missiles
i bombardejant les ciutats
and bombing the cities
ucranianes de la forma que ho va
Ukrainians in the way it went.
fer i que ho fa. I avui,
to do and that he does it. And today,
Toni, que tenim la sort de conversar amb tu
Toni, we are lucky to be conversing with you.
i que has viscut dues guerres.
and you have lived through two wars.
La teva primera guerra, moltes més, però
Your first war, many more to come, though.
dues em refereixo a la teva primera guerra
I refer to your first war.
l'any 90-91
the year 90-91
i aquesta última ara
and this last one now
fa pocs mesos. Com a
a few months ago. As a
reporter, com a periodista,
reporter, as a journalist,
hi ha alguna cosa que hagi canviat
Is there something that has changed?
dintre d'una guerra?
inside a war?
Malauradament, canvia la tecnologia
Unfortunately, technology changes.
però el cap dels humans
but the head of humans
sembla que no canvia gaire.
it seems that it doesn't change much.
És a dir, seguim sent tan bèsties
That is to say, we continue to be so beastly.
com quan lluitàvem amb pedres, no?
Like when we used to fight with stones, right?
Ara tenim més tecnologia,
Now we have more technology,
aquesta és la guerra dels drons, per exemple,
this is the drone war, for example,
l'Ucraïna, ja ho va ser la de Zerbatjan, no?
Ukraine, it was already that of Zerbatjan, wasn't it?
Que ja es van fer
That has already been done.
servir drons
serve drones
contra Armènia
against Armenia
i ara, doncs, això s'ha posat
And now, then, this has gotten serious.
ja a gran escala en aquesta
already on a large scale in this
guerra ucraïnesa, no?
Ukrainian war, right?
Per tant, canvia la tecnologia, però veus que
Therefore, technology changes, but you see that
els humans,
humans,
no sé si dir-nos humans, en molts casos,
I don't know whether to call ourselves human, in many cases,
potser ens hauríem de canviar
perhaps we should change
aquesta forma d'autoanomenar-nos i dir-nos
this way of self-naming and calling ourselves
deshumans, no? Fins que no
Dehumanized, right? Until not.
avancem una miqueta mentalment.
let's move forward a little mentally.
I la forma d'explicar-les?
And the way to explain them?
La forma d'explicar-les, clar, el Quim deia,
The way to explain them, of course, Quim said,
no?, que
no?, what
no hi havia forma que canviés, no?
There was no way it could change, right?
Malgrat el que em deien,
Despite what they told me,
sí, clar,
yes, of course,
tu no tens
you do not have
perspectiva sobre tu mateix. A mi em sembla
perspective on yourself. It seems to me
que jo segueixo explicant les coses igual que abans,
that I continue explaining things just like before,
però certament, si ara em poséssiu una crònica
but certainly, if you were to give me a chronicle now
de la primera guerra i una d'ara,
from the first war and one of now,
doncs potser veuríem diferències, no?
so maybe we would see differences, wouldn't we?
Vull creure que he millorat una mica, però
I want to believe that I have improved a little, but
com que encara no sóc capaç d'encairar en un minut
since I still can't manage to do it in a minute
la notícia
the news
i el color, per dir-ho d'alguna
and the color, to put it in some way
forma, doncs crec que he fracassat
So I think I have failed.
en aquesta qüestió.
in this matter.
La llamanacaramier
They call her caramel.
Què esteu escoltant, Toni?
What are you listening to, Toni?
Bé, doncs aquesta és la
Well, then this is the
Sintonia dels viatgers de la Gran Anaconda,
Tuning of the travelers of the Great Anaconda,
un programa que vaig començar a fer l'any 96,
a program that I started doing in 1996,
fa
does
vora 30 anys,
about 30 years ago,
que clar, quan comences a fer-lo, doncs què t'has d'imaginar
Well, when you start doing it, what do you have to imagine?
que durarà 30 anys, no? Actualment és el
that will last 30 years, right? Currently, it is the
segon programa d'autor
second author's program
que en diem, és a dir, un programa fet
what we call it, that is to say, a program made
sempre per la mateixa persona, perquè llavors
always for the same person, because then
hi ha els programes genèrics, d'alguna forma, de l'emissora,
there are the generic programs, in some way, of the broadcaster,
com el Matí de Catalunya Ràdio,
like the Morning of Catalunya Ràdio,
com La Tarda, que llavors és un programa
like La Tarda, which is then a program
que també porta molts anys a mantenir,
that has also been maintained for many years,
però que l'ha fet diversa gent al llarg de la història.
but it has been done by various people throughout history.
Doncs clar, què t'has d'imaginar que
Well, of course, what do you imagine that
t'allargaràs tants anys?
Will you live for so many years?
I això no està en la teva mà, eh? Això és
And this is not in your hands, is it? This is
fruit de, bé,
fruit of, well,
de molts imponderables, no?
Of many imponderables, right?
Perquè crec que han passat, no ho sé,
Because I think they have happened, I don't know,
una quinzena de directors en tot aquest
about fifteen directors in all this
temps per l'emissora. Per tant,
time for the broadcaster. Therefore,
que cada nova direcció
that each new direction
doncs no li sembli
then don’t seem like it
malament que tu continuïs en antena,
it's bad that you continue on air,
doncs és important.
well, it is important.
I després d'aquestes més de mil emissions, quin és el secret
And after these more than a thousand broadcasts, what is the secret?
de l'èxit? Bé, el secret
of success? Well, the secret
de l'èxit, crec
of success, I believe
que és, i ho diré sincerament
what it is, and I will say it sincerely
sense falsa modèstia, crec que és intentar
Without false modesty, I think it's about trying.
fer un producte ben fet, no?
make a well-made product, right?
Dedicar-hi moltes
Dedicate a lot to it.
hores i molt de temps, perquè
hours and a lot of time, because
al darrere d'un programa vosaltres que feu
behind a program you all do
aquest podcast, bé sabeu que
this podcast, well you know that
perquè les coses quedin bé, doncs
so that things turn out well, then
no hi ha secrets, no? Hi has d'invertir moltes
There are no secrets, right? You have to invest a lot.
hores i molta dedicació,
hours and a lot of dedication,
no? I això és el que hi ha
No? And that's what there is.
darrere l'anaconda, i una gent
behind the anaconda, and a people
magnífica, uns col·laboradors
magnificent, some collaborators
extraordinaris, hi ha gent molt
extraordinary, there are very special people
i molt vàlida,
and very valid,
gent boníssima, no?
really nice people, right?
Perquè ells són realment la vida del
Because they are truly the life of the
programa, no? I llavors tenir la
program, right? And then have the
capacitat de saber fer
capacity to know how to do
el trencaclosques en totes aquestes peces, perquè
the puzzle in all these pieces, because
l'anaconda, de fet, és un trencaclosques
The anaconda, in fact, is a puzzle.
de moltes petites cosetes, no?
from many little things, right?
Que han anat canviant també al llarg de la història.
That have also changed over the course of history.
A l'Hotel Palestina hi tenim una bona
At the Palestine Hotel, we have a good.
biblioteca, a banda de música, que va creixent
library, along with a music band, that is growing
a partir de les recomanacions dels nostres
based on the recommendations from our
hostes. Ens recomanes un llibre?
hosts. Do you recommend a book to us?
Bé, jo, clar, llibres...
Well, I, of course, books...
N'hi ha molts, no?
There are many, aren't there?
Aquí n'he portat uns quants, no?
Here I've brought a few, haven't I?
N'hi ha en què ets portat? El món d'ahir, de l'Stefan
Is there one that you are drawn to? The World of Yesterday, by Stefan.
Sveit, Notícia Bomba,
Sveit, Bomb News,
de l'Evelyn Bott, que us recomano
from Evelyn Bott, which I recommend to you
molt i molt, i
very much, and
60 anys d'anar pel món, de
60 years of wandering the world, of
l'Eugenie Chamart, que és el que he triat, no?
Eugenie Chamart, which is what I have chosen, right?
Que l'Eugenie Chamart va ser un bon
That Eugenie Chamart was a good
periodista d'entreguerres, entre la primera i la segona
interwar journalist, between the first and the second
Guerra Mundial, va ser corresponsal del
World War, was a correspondent of the
Diplomàtic, va treballar també per diversos
Diplomatic, he also worked for various.
diaris catalans,
Catalan newspapers,
i ell, doncs, té molt de
And he, then, has a lot of
molt de sarcasme a l'hora d'escriure
a lot of sarcasm when writing
les informacions
the information
d'aquelles guerres,
of those wars,
no? No sé si podria llegir-vos
No? I don't know if I could read you.
un fragment, perquè
a fragment, because
és interessant de
it is interesting to
veure com es cobrien les guerres.
see how wars were covered.
Es diu, del 1914 al
It is said, from 1914 to
1918, un corresponsal de guerra
1918, a war correspondent
era un home engaviat
he was a deceived man
en un hotel o un xató situat
in a hotel or a xató located
a uns 100 quilòmetres del front.
about 100 kilometers from the front.
Que sortia de casa a mig matí
He/She would leave the house by mid-morning.
per anar a passejar, sempre a respectable
to go for a walk, always to be respected
distància dels cames de batalla,
distance of the battle legs,
que de tant en tant sentia
that from time to time I heard
molt llunyanes unes quantes
very distant a few
canonades, escadosseres, i a l'hora
pipes, waste, and at the same time
que les gallines van a joc,
that the hens are going to play,
era tornat a casa, on
he had returned home, where
un oficial d'estat major,
a staff officer,
davant d'uns mapes
in front of some maps
i d'uns gràfics, explicava als
and some graphs, explained to the
corresponsals totes les coses
correspondents all things
que havien passat aquell dia i que ells
what had happened that day and that they
no havien vist, i algunes de les coses que
they had not seen, and some of the things that
probablement passarien l'endemà i que
they would probably come the next day and that
ells tampoc no veurien. És a dir,
they wouldn't see either. That is to say,
que eren unes cobertures de guerra
that they were war covers
bastant calmades, pel que
quite calm, for what
es pot intuir, no? No, és
It can be sensed, right? No, it is.
molt interessant, el llibre d'en Chamar
very interesting, Chamar's book
és una història de periodisme
It is a story of journalism.
i, a més a més, d'un tipus de periodisme que
and, moreover, of a type of journalism that
malauradament es perd i que jo
unfortunately it is lost and that I
crec que no s'hauria de perdre.
I think it should not be lost.
Doncs, ha notat estar a la nostra particular
Well, it has noted being in our particular.
biblioteca, Toni, i si ens haguessis de
library, Toni, and if you had to
recomanar alguna col·lecció de cinema,
recommend a film collection,
d'algun documental,
of some documentary,
alguna pel·lícula, cap on et tiraries?
Any movie, where would you throw yourself?
Pel·lícula? Mira, me'n recordo
Movie? Look, I remember it.
d'Enterra de ningú, que és
of no one's burial, which is
una pel·lícula que retrata, intenta
a movie that portrays, attempts
retratar una mica la guerra dels
to depict a bit of the war of the
Balcans, una pel·lícula de l'any 93,
Balkans, a movie from the year 93,
del Dani Stanòvic, no? I és
from Dani Stanòvic, right? And it is
un retrat tràgic
a tragic portrait
còmic, no? Perquè una guerra sempre és
Comic, right? Because a war is always
tràgica, encara que ens arrenqui
tragic, even though it tears us apart
algun somriure, no?
a smile, right?
D'això, de la guerra de Bosnia.
Of this, of the war in Bosnia.
No sé si l'heu vist, són
I don't know if you have seen it, they are
dos soldats que es troben
two soldiers who meet
en una trinxera, un de
in a trench, one of
bosnià i un de serbi, i és, doncs,
Bosnian and a Serbian, so it is, then,
les
the
peripècies que han de viure
peripeteia that they have to live
en aquesta trinxera
in this trench
que està al mig de la línia de front
that is in the middle of the front line
amb els serbis per un costat
with the Serbs on one side
i els bosnians per un altre.
and the Bosnians for another.
Bon, i ja per anar acabant
Well, and just to wrap things up.
passem un moment pel casino
let's stop by the casino for a moment
de l'Hotel Palestina, tenim un petit joc,
from the Hotel Palestina, we have a small game,
direm una paraula, un nom, i ens has de
we will say a word, a name, and you have to
respondre de manera breu el que significa
respond briefly what it means
per tu. Ho intentem?
For you. Shall we give it a try?
Ho intentem, ho intentem. Vinga, va. Comencem.
We try, we try. Come on, let's go. Let's start.
Una, crec que és bastant fàcil, aquesta, Toni.
One, I think this one is quite easy, Toni.
Ràdio Minuto. Ràdio Minuto
Radio Minute. Radio Minute
van ser els meus principis
they were my principles
a la ràdio, gairebé els meus principis, perquè
on the radio, almost my beginnings, because
hi va haver una setmana de ràdio, ràdio molins de re
there was a radio week, Radio Molins de Rei
i fa molts anys, molts anys, que de fet
and it has been many years, many years, that in fact
va ser la primera vegada que m'haig posat davant d'un micròfon, sí.
It was the first time I had stood in front of a microphone, yes.
Continuem, Toni. Gincama
Let's continue, Toni. Scavenger hunt.
per gilipolles. Sí, això és. Cada cop
for bullshit. Yes, that's it. Every time.
que has de, o que havies de
what you have to, or what you had to
d'obtenir algun permís,
to obtain some permission,
alguna candidació, que això,
any candidacy, that this,
doncs, t'obligava a anar a algun
so, it forced you to go to some
ministeri, i eren aquells despatxos
ministry, and those were the offices
amb piles de papers
with piles of papers
de feia dècades, amb pols
for decades, with dust
de feia segles, amb aquells ventiladors
for centuries, with those fans
per intentar mitigar la calor, no?
to try to mitigate the heat, right?
I amb hores
And with hours
d'espera i molts tests, no? Perquè, clar, no arribava
Waiting and many tests, right? Because, of course, it wasn't arriving.
mai aquell paper, no sabia, no trobàvem
never that paper, I didn't know, we couldn't find
el funcionari que l'havia de fer, i era
the official who was supposed to do it, and was
realment una pèrdua de dies i setmanes
really a waste of days and weeks
per obtenir això. Al Pakistan, eh?
to obtain this. In Pakistan, huh?
Al Pakistan, sí, una simple acreditació, sí.
In Pakistan, yes, a simple accreditation, yes.
Una altra, Toni. Fífol.
Another one, Toni. Fífol.
Fífol era
Fífol was.
un
one
sobrenom que vam posar a la redacció
nickname we gave to the editorial office
sense informar-me del
without informing me of the
talibà que feia les rodes de premsa
Taliban who held the press conferences.
a Peshawar, pràcticament diàriament.
in Peshawar, almost daily.
I
I
va haver-hi un dia, doncs, que
there was a day, then, that
amb l'intercanvi d'informació
with the exchange of information
entre la redacció
between the editing
i jo, doncs, em van dir
and I was told
escolta, si han vist la roda
listen, have you seen the wheel
de premsa del Fífol,
from the Fífol press,
i jo vaig pensar, qui deu ser aquest?
And I thought, who could this be?
Però no vaig dir-los jo res, no vaig dir
But I didn't say anything to them, I didn't say.
que no sabia de qui m'estaven parlant.
that I didn't know who they were talking about.
I ràpidament, quan vaig pensar
And quickly, when I thought
al telèfon i vaig començar a preguntar entre els
on the phone and I started to ask among the
meus companys periodistes si havien vist
my journalist colleagues had seen each other
un tal Fífol, si sabien
a certain Fífol, if they knew
si algun ministre d'Afers Estrangers d'algun país
if any foreign affairs minister of any country
i clar, ningú en tenia ni idea. Al final
Of course, no one had any idea. In the end.
no vaig tenir cap més remei que reconèixer
I had no other choice but to acknowledge.
que no sabia qui era en Fífol
that he didn't know who Fífol was
i em van dir a la redacció, diu, ah, no,
and they told me at the editorial, they say, ah, no,
diu, és el ministre d'Afers Estrangers
he says, he is the Minister of Foreign Affairs
talibà, que com que no sap dir
Taliban, because it doesn't know how to say.
people i diu Fífol,
people and he is called Fífol,
doncs li hem posat Fífol, i llavors
so we named him Fífol, and then
es referien amb ell, no pel nom, sinó per Fífol.
They were referring to him, not by name, but as Fífol.
Aixgar.
Aixgars.
Aixgar va ser el meu
Aixgar was my
xofer, quan estava a Isla Mabat
driver, when I was at Isla Mabat
i a
and to
Peixaur, un home
Peixaur, a man
paquistanès, evidentment, molt
Pakistani, obviously, very.
bon home, que
good man, that
va fer molt bé la seva feina,
he did his job very well,
que més enllà de ser
that beyond being
el conductor que em portava amunt i avall,
the driver who was taking me up and down,
doncs era gairebé un pare,
so he was almost like a father,
perquè em recomanava, me'n recordo un dia que hi havia
because he/she recommended me, I remember a day when there was
una manifestació
a demonstration
convocada de radicals
radicals' call
afganesos i paquistanesos
Afghans and Pakistanis
i em va dir, escolta'm, no hi vagis, no hi vagis,
and he told me, listen to me, don’t go there, don’t go there,
perquè per ells, tots vosaltres,
because for them, all of you,
són nord-americans, i us ho petregaran, no?
they are North Americans, and they will bother you about it, right?
I era una persona, doncs, que sempre
And he was a person, then, who always
a més a més, doncs, d'anar
furthermore, then, of going
allà on jo li demanava d'anar,
where I asked him to go,
doncs sempre em deia, escolta'm, vols dir d'anar aquí?
Well, she always used to tell me, listen, do you want to go here?
O millor, anar allà, o...
Or better, go there, or...
Era una persona, doncs, amb la que et podies
She was a person, therefore, with whom you could
moure amb tranquil·litat. Això és molt important, quan vas
move calmly. This is very important, when you go
en un país en guerra, tenir
In a war-torn country, having
persones de confiança. Per tant,
trusted people. Therefore,
és bo que hi hagi una
It is good that there is one.
continuïtat en fer aquesta feina
continuity in doing this job
i que no sigui una feina, com
and that it is not a job, like
moltes altres cobertures, no?, que puguis
many other covers, right?, that you can
anar enviant gent diferent. Aquí és bo que algú
start sending different people. Here it is good that someone
s'especialitzi en aquesta mena
specializes in this kind
de cobertures, perquè en aquestes
of covers, because in these
confiances t'hi va la vida. Toni, acaba'ns
Trust you, your life depends on it. Toni, finish it for us.
la història. L'expedició al Cadeus és on
the story. The expedition to Cadeus is where
porteu dues cabres
bring two goats
que us havien de servir d'aliment, però...
that were supposed to serve as food for you, but...
Si les vam comprar al mercat,
If we bought them at the market,
clar, sempre és millor portar el menjar
Of course, it's always better to bring the food.
caminant, que no a pes, no?
walking, not by weight, right?
I llavors, aquelles cabres
And then, those goats
pobres, doncs, es van fer, com que van
poor people, then, they became, as they went
compartir uns dies de la marxa d'aproximació,
share a few days of the approach march,
es van fer companyes nostres,
they became our companions,
no? Esclar, llavors va arribar un dia
No? Of course, then one day arrived.
que les havíem de sacrificar, perquè
that we had to sacrifice them, because
la gent volia menjar carn. Com et pots
People wanted to eat meat. How can you?
menjar un company d'expedició? Jo vaig
Eat a fellow expedition member? I'm going.
ser incapaç de menjar
to be unable to eat
cap bocí de cap de les dues companyes
no piece of either of the two companions
d'expedició. Van acabar, doncs,
of shipping. They ended, therefore,
esquarterades i
quartered and
cuinades pels portegedors, sí, sí.
cooked by the porters, yes, yes.
Toni, moltes gràcies
Toni, thank you very much.
per allotjar-te a l'Hotel Palestina.
to accommodate you at the Palestine Hotel.
Esperem que hagi estat tot
We hope that everything has been.
al teu gust.
to your liking.
Ha estat tot molt bé, un servei molt acurat.
Everything has been very good, a very attentive service.
I que ens facis una bona ressenya.
And that you give us a good review.
Sí, i tant, i tant. No faltarà, i tant, i tant.
Yes, of course, of course. It will not be missing, of course, of course.
Gràcies, Toni. Fes la propera
Thank you, Toni. Do the next one.
i fins demà.
and until tomorrow.
I ja saps que tens les portes obertes
And you already know that you have open doors.
a l'hotel sempre que ho necessitis.
at the hotel whenever you need it.
Moltíssimes gràcies. A més a més té bon preu,
Thank you very much. Moreover, it has a good price.
és a dir, que val la pena. Moltes gràcies.
That is to say, it is worth it. Thank you very much.
Fins a la propera.
Until next time.
Fins demà.
Until tomorrow.
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