La tertúlia proscrita - 67 - 19/09/2024: S'assembla més que no ens pensem el que ha passat a Escòcia i a Catalunya?

VilaWeb

La tertúlia proscrita

Bon vespre i benvinguts una setmana més a la Tartulia Prusquita.

Good evening and welcome once again to the Prusquita Tartulia.

Ara sabem què és això del directe, eh, Albano?

Now we know what this live thing is, huh, Albano?

Perquè nosaltres abans, si arribàvem una mica tard, no passava res.

Because before, if we arrived a little late, nothing happened.

Avui hem de posar a falta el Costa, que està arribant una mica tard i que...

Today we have to mark Costa as absent, who is arriving a bit late and...

Ostres, ostres, ai, Josep Costa, Josep Costa.

Wow, wow, oh, Josep Costa, Josep Costa.

Escolta'm una cosa, estic buscant l'enllaç per fer un tuit amb l'enllaç del vídeo,

Listen to me for a moment, I am looking for the link to tweet with the link to the video.

perquè la gent... Bé, coses del directe, Txell.

because people... Well, things that happen live, Txell.

Mira, Vilauep ha de fer un puix. Si tens les notificacions, aquí tens l'enllaç.

Look, Vilauep has to make a push. If you have the notifications, here is the link.

Ostres, no us segueix en què? En Telegram?

Wow, what do you mean by "follow you"? On Telegram?

No, en les notificacions.

No, in the notifications.

Bé, ara t'ho passo. Anem per parts, que ens estem aquí començant molt liats.

Well, I'll pass it to you now. Let's take it step by step, as we're getting quite tangled up here.

Anem per parts.

Let's take it step by step.

Però és important, que tothom ha de saber que estem aquí, Txell.

But it is important that everyone must know that we are here, Txell.

Ara et passo l'enllaç. Un moment, Albano.

Now I'll send you the link. One moment, Albano.

Això. Bon vespre. No hem dit ni bon vespre, Albano, bon vespre a tothom.

That's it. Good evening. We haven't even said good evening, Albano, good evening to everyone.

Avui parlarem de moltíssimes coses. Crec que ens quedaran moltíssimes coses sense poder-ne parlar,

Today we will talk about a lot of things. I think there will be a lot of things we won't be able to discuss.

perquè aquesta setmana realment ha sigut moguda, ha passat moltíssimes coses.

Because this week has really been eventful, many things have happened.

Veig el Costa venint corrents cap aquí.

I see Costa running here.

Per tant, però el que primer volíem parlar és que la setmana passada tothom va haver-hi gent que es va queixar

Therefore, what we first wanted to talk about is that last week there were people who complained.

que no sabien com comentar amb nosaltres a través de Twitter.

that they didn't know how to comment with us on Twitter.

I per això aquesta setmana hem decidit que creàvem...

And that's why this week we decided to create...

Un hashtag. És Tartúlia proscrita a Escòcia.

A hashtag. It is Tartulia proscribed in Scotland.

I és un avançament del que parlarem avui.

And it is a preview of what we will talk about today.

Una de les coses que parlarem avui és els 10 anys del referèndum d'Escòcia.

One of the things we will talk about today is the 10th anniversary of the Scottish referendum.

I, per tant, si voleu comentar, això.

And therefore, if you want to comment on this.

Hashtag Tartúlia proscrita a Escòcia.

Hashtag Outlawed Tartulia in Scotland.

I allà us anirem seguint des de Twitter tots aquells que voleu comentar el que estem parlant des d'aquí.

And there we will be following all of you on Twitter who want to comment on what we are discussing from here.

Per altra banda, com sempre, a YouTube també ja veig que abans de començar hi havia gent que ja estàveu comentant i dient-nos bon vespre.

On the other hand, as always, on YouTube I can already see that before starting there were people who were already commenting and wishing us good evening.

Així que benvinguts tots. Ara sí que hi som tots. Bon vespre, Josep Castau.

So welcome everyone. Now we are all here. Good evening, Josep Castau.

Bon vespre.

Good evening.

Bé, Josep.

Good, Josep.

Abans, ara el directe et descriu com una persona impuntual, eh?

Before, now the direct description makes you sound like an unpunctual person, huh?

Per una bona raó.

For a good reason.

Ah, d'acord.

Ah, okay.

Bé, d'acord. Doncs no tornarà a passar, ja està.

Well, alright. It won't happen again, that's it.

Sí que tornarà a passar.

It will happen again.

Com hem començat aquesta Tartúlia?

How have we started this Tartulía?

Sempre hi ha bones raons.

There are always good reasons.

Espero reconduir-la. Anem-la a reconduir, sisplau.

I hope to redirect it. Let's redirect it, please.

Comencem amb la Tartúlia? Estem tots a punt?

Shall we start with the Tartulia? Is everyone ready?

Sí? Doncs comencem i comencem parlant del que deia, dels 10 anys del referèndum d'Escòcia,

Yes? Well, let's get started and let's start by talking about what I was saying, about the 10th anniversary of the Scottish referendum.

que ahir justament feia 10 anys d'aquest referèndum.

that yesterday marked exactly 10 years since this referendum.

I ho fem amb una persona convidada en aquesta Tartúlia,

We do it with a guest person in this Tartulia.

perquè volem saber una mica això, no?

because we want to know a little about this, right?

En quin punt està la independència d'Escòcia?

What is the current status of Scotland's independence?

Com podem extreure lliçons del que ha passat allà?

How can we draw lessons from what has happened there?

Què diferencia el que està passant a Catalunya i a Escòcia?

What differentiates what is happening in Catalonia and in Scotland?

Com deia, per parlar-ne, convidem una persona que convéneix molt,

As I was saying, to talk about it, we invite a very suitable person.

molt bé les dues realitats, tant Catalunya com Escòcia,

both realities, both Catalonia and Scotland, are very good,

és la Valentina Cervera, una catalana que va emigrar a Escòcia el 2017

She is Valentina Cervera, a Catalan who emigrated to Scotland in 2017.

i es va implicar de ple en la lluita d'independència que hi havia allà,

and became fully involved in the independence struggle that was there,

arribant a tenir càrrecs dintre la joventut de la CNP.

reaching positions within the youth of the CNP.

També ha estat fins a poc presidenta de les Joventuts d'Aliança Europea,

He has also recently been the president of the Youth of European Alliance.

per tant, coneix bé de prop tot el que està passant tant a Catalunya com a Escòcia.

therefore, he is well acquainted with everything that is happening both in Catalonia and in Scotland.

Bon vespre, Valentina.

Good evening, Valentina.

Bon vespre.

Good evening.

Moltes gràcies per tenir-me i, de fet, en unes hores estaré a Escòcia.

Thank you very much for having me, and in fact, I will be in Scotland in a few hours.

O sigui, ara em teniu a l'aeroport, espero que se'm senti bé,

So, now you have me at the airport, I hope you can hear me well.

però sí, sí, amb ganes de tornar-hi.

but yes, yes, looking forward to going back.

M'ha fet això al mig de l'aeroport, però ella ha dit, sí, jo m'apunto.

She did this to me in the middle of the airport, but she said, yes, I'm in.

Així que encantada de tenir-te avui aquí amb nosaltres, Valentina.

So delighted to have you here with us today, Valentina.

Com deia, per començar, perquè tinc la sensació una mica que aquí, a Catalunya,

As I was saying, to begin with, because I have a bit of a feeling that here, in Catalonia,

hem seguit molt de prop amb què ha passat a Escòcia els últims anys,

we have closely followed what has happened in Scotland in recent years,

però sí que últimament n'hem desconnectat una miqueta, no?

But we have disconnected a little lately, haven't we?

I cada vegada sembla que no sabem ben bé què està passant ara mateix.

And each time it seems that we don't really know what is happening right now.

Ens podries situar breument en quin punt està ara la independència a Escòcia?

Could you briefly situate us on the current state of independence in Scotland?

Bé, el suport per a la independència potser està una mica al punt mateix que estava just abans del Covid.

Well, support for independence may be at about the same level it was just before Covid.

Durant la Covid va tenir un altre, diguem-ne, punt cap a dalt,

During Covid, it had another, let's say, high point,

degut a les bones polítiques que estàvem fent el govern escocès en aquell moment.

due to the good policies that the Scottish government was implementing at that time.

Però diguem-ne que ara estaria entre uns 40-45.

But let's say it would now be around 40-45.

De la setmana.

Of the week.

I del mitjà, que preguntis.

And about the means, that's what you should ask.

Això passa a tot arreu, diguéssim.

This happens everywhere, let's say.

Podíem dir, per això que està més a prop ara la independència que aquell 2014, on va haver-hi el referèndum?

We could say, therefore, that independence is now closer than it was in 2014, when the referendum took place?

Si m'ho arribes a preguntar això potser fa un any i mig, o ni això, t'hauria dit que sí.

If you had asked me this maybe a year and a half ago, or not even that, I would have said yes.

Ara mateix, per la situació política del país, com està també l'estructura de l'SMP,

Right now, due to the political situation in the country, as well as the structure of the SMP,

que està passant un moment de transició,

that is going through a moment of transition,

i per com estan anant les votacions dins del Parlament escocès, ho veig difícil.

And as for how the voting is going in the Scottish Parliament, I find it difficult.

També el Keir Starmer, que és el nou primer ministre del Regne Unit,

Also Keir Starmer, who is the new Prime Minister of the United Kingdom,

sempre ha sigut molt concret dient que mai donaria un referèndum a Escòcia.

He has always been very clear in saying that he would never grant a referendum to Scotland.

I jo crec que amb això ho tenim molt difícil.

And I think that with this we have a very difficult situation.

També ho teníem difícil amb el Boris Johnson, però clar, el Keir Starmer és com una marca blanca d'un conservador,

We also had it tough with Boris Johnson, but of course, Keir Starmer is like a generic version of a conservative.

i amb això també ho tens difícil per negociar.

And with that, it's also difficult for you to negotiate.

Si m'ho arribes a dir fa un any i mig,

If you had told me a year and a half ago,

t'hauria dit que sí.

I would have told you yes.

Ara ho veig una mica més llunyà.

Now I see it a little further away.

Clar, entenc que hi ha opinions per tots, perquè precisament ahir a Vilaweb entrevistàvem a Alex Salmond,

Sure, I understand that there are opinions for everyone, because just yesterday at Vilaweb we interviewed Alex Salmond.

que era el president en aquell 2014 a Escòcia,

who was the president in that 2014 in Scotland,

i deia que per ell sí, que per ell està més a prop,

and I said that for him yes, that for him it is closer,

i ell parlava que aquestes enquestes, ell les situava més als 50,

and he mentioned that he placed these surveys more in the 50s,

és això, que les enquestes tothom les llegeix més o menys com vol, de vegades.

It is like this, that everyone reads the surveys more or less as they want, sometimes.

Bueno, la confiança d'un home blanc en política sempre és bastant...

Well, the trust of a white man in politics is always quite...

La confiança d'un home blanc en política sempre és bastant...

The confidence of a white man in politics is always quite...

o que és disparada de la realitat de vegades.

or it is sometimes a shot of reality.

Vull dir, ara mateix l'Alex Salmond té un partit, que és l'Alba,

I mean, right now Alex Salmond has a party, which is Alba,

que no té ni cap representant,

that has no representative,

no n'ha arribat ni a fer ni un 2% dins de les últimes eleccions,

it didn’t even reach 2% in the last elections,

i ho té bastant cru.

and he/she has it quite tough.

I jo crec que veient els números de l'SMP, també.

And I think that seeing the SMP numbers, too.

Ho pots sentir a prop, però la realitat, en aquest moment,

You can feel it close by, but the reality, at this moment,

és que està una mica, bastant més distanciat de qui estava fa pocs anys.

It's just that he is a bit, quite a bit more distant than he was a few years ago.

La... crisi, llavors, de l'independentisme,

The... crisis, then, of independence,

Podríem dir que és tant a Catalunya com a Escòcia

We could say that it is both in Catalonia and in Scotland.

i tenen una cosa en comú, que és que la gent ha deixat de confiar una mica en aquests partits?

Do they have one thing in common, which is that people have somewhat stopped trusting these parties?

Jo crec que sí. A veure, hi ha un desengany en la política en general.

I believe so. Let's see, there is a disillusionment in politics in general.

Cada vegada veiem més que la participació de vots es va reduint

We are seeing more and more that the participation of votes is declining.

o veiem més que partits nous que es diuen ser diferents

We see no more than new parties that claim to be different.

i tot això van agafant suport perquè la gent està cansada de la política antiga.

And all this is gaining support because people are tired of the old politics.

També és veritat que dins de l'SMP hi ha hagut certes males gestions

It is also true that there have been certain mismanagements within the SMP.

que han fet que perdessin el suport de molta gent i la confiança de la població.

that have caused them to lose the support of many people and the trust of the population.

I una mica, clar, pensa que l'SMP va entrar en poder el 2007.

And a little, of course, consider that the SMP came to power in 2007.

Ja porta 15 anys quasi al poder i a les pròximes eleccions podrien fer 20.

He has been in power for almost 15 years now, and in the next elections, he could make it to 20.

Clar, amb tants anys sent un govern et tornes una mica a l'establishment.

Of course, after so many years being in government, you become a bit part of the establishment.

Això que et queixaves quan estaves a l'oposició, ara ho ets tu.

What you complained about when you were in the opposition, now you are.

Llavors, clar, que durant tots aquests anys sí que hem tingut més avanços que per la independència,

So, of course, during all these years we have indeed made more progress than for independence,

sí que hem evolucionat i ara estem a aquest punt d'enstanc,

yes, we have evolved and now we are at this point of stagnation,

potser és el moment de canviar nous béns i de donar-li un nou aire.

Maybe it's time to change new assets and give it a new vibe.

També és veritat que la diferència que veig amb Catalunya

It is also true that the difference I see with Catalonia.

és que tot i que la gent a Catalunya també s'ha decepcionat amb els partits,

it's just that although people in Catalonia have also been disappointed with the parties,

el suport de la independència també com que ha defallit una mica bastant.

Support for independence has also declined quite significantly.

No tant, o sigui, no molt, perquè seguim allà,

Not much, I mean, not a lot, because we are still there,

però sí que, diguem-ne, el positivisme, la motivació ha anat defallint.

but yes, let's say, the positivism, the motivation has been waning.

A Escòcia, tot i que la gent està molt decepcionada amb els partits també,

In Scotland, although people are very disappointed with the parties as well,

no trobo que el suport de la independència, almenys a les enquestes,

I do not find that support for independence, at least in the polls,

no es nota que aquest suport per la independència hagi reduït tant.

It is not noticeable that this support for independence has reduced so much.

Llavors, em noto que la gent encara té aquesta gana, però no sap en qui confiar.

Then, I notice that people still have this hunger, but they don't know who to trust.

No sé si els de la taula voleu fer alguna pregunta, voleu preguntar alguna cosa.

I don't know if those at the table want to ask a question, do you want to ask anything?

Bé, bon vespre.

Well, good evening.

Jo, ara que parlaves també del canvi de govern que hi ha hagut a Londres,

Me, now that you were also talking about the change of government that has taken place in London,

el govern britànic, em recordo una mica el canvi de govern,

the British government, it reminds me a bit of the change of government,

en Espanya i tantes coses, potser hauríem de començar fent la pregunta.

In Spain and so many things, perhaps we should start by asking the question.

Hi ha alguna cosa en què no s'assembli Escòcia i Catalunya?

Is there anything in which Scotland and Catalonia do not resemble each other?

Alguna cosa en què no ens assemblem, els dos processos?

Is there something in which we don't resemble each other, the two processes?

Sí, vull dir, bastantes.

Yes, I mean, quite a few.

Per exemple, la nostra lluita per la llengua, ells no la tenen tant,

For example, our fight for the language, they don't have it that much.

per ells no és una prioritat, perquè tenen l'escots i el gaèlic,

for them it is not a priority, because they have Scottish and Gaelic,

que tot i que, bueno, això és una batalla que va guanyar la Thatcher molt bé,

that although, well, this is a battle that Thatcher won very well,

el desenganxar la gent de la seva identitat,

detaching people from their identity,

la seva llengua, per exemple, a Irlanda, que el gaèlic també es parla,

their language, for example, in Ireland, where Gaelic is also spoken,

a Irlanda el gaèlic està molt més present.

In Ireland, Gaelic is much more present.

I, en canvi, Escòcia és una cosa més de les Highlands i de les Islands

I, on the other hand, Scotland is more about the Highlands and the Islands.

i no tant de, diguem-ne, la península en si.

and not so much, let's say, the peninsula itself.

Crec que en això som diferents i també trobo que,

I think that we are different in this and I also find that,

amb la manera com enfoquem les coses, almenys, per exemple,

with the way we approach things, at least, for example,

me'n recordo que durant el 2017, quan nosaltres estàvem intentant

I remember that during 2017, when we were trying

fer el referèndum, organitzant-lo, a Escòcia se'ns criticava molt,

holding the referendum, organizing it, in Scotland we were heavily criticized,

perquè, clar, ells són gentlemen, no? Ells van al joc net i tot això.

Because, of course, they are gentlemen, right? They play fair and all that.

Però, clar, això ho pots jugar fins que no t'arriba a una persona

But, of course, you can play this until it reaches someone.

com el Boris Johnson, que és el que teníem nosaltres en aquell moment

like Boris Johnson, who was what we had at that time

era el Rajoy, llavors fins que no van tenir un Boris Johnson

it was Rajoy, then until they had a Boris Johnson

no ens van entendre tant com van fer aquests moviments.

they did not understand us as much as they made those movements.

Ara trobo que, per exemple, el Keir Starmer és molt més centre

Now I find that, for example, Keir Starmer is much more centrist.

que potser el que seria l'equivalent al Pedro Sánchez.

that would perhaps be the equivalent of Pedro Sánchez.

I trobo que, per exemple, el Pedro Sánchez ha fet molt bones polítiques

I think that, for example, Pedro Sánchez has implemented very good policies.

que, quan teníem un PP, que no teníem un PP, que no teníem un PP,

that, when we had a PP, that we didn't have a PP, that we didn't have a PP,

que ens deia sempre que no i que ens creava bastant rebuig

that always told us no and created quite a bit of rejection towards us

i tant de rebuig i d'enfadu, això va fer que la gent

and so much rejection and anger, this made people

tingués molt més sentiment independentista.

had much more independence sentiment.

Quan tens un senyor com el Pedro Sánchez, que, bueno,

When you have a man like Pedro Sánchez, who, well,

tot i que discrepent políticament, hi ha coses que se li han de reconèixer,

although politically disagreeing, there are things that must be acknowledged.

clar, molta gent ha perdut aquest, potser, aquest poder, no?,

Sure, many people have lost this, perhaps, this power, right?

o aquest foc a l'estómac de tirar cap endavant.

or this fire in the stomach to move forward.

Albano.

Sí, hola, què tal?

Yes, hello, how are you?

En aquesta tertúlia hem parlat moltes vegades, justament,

In this discussion, we have talked many times, indeed,

del gran error o del gran tret al peu que era per l'independentisme català

of the great mistake or the great self-inflicted wound that it was for Catalan independence.

fer una distinció entre el perillós que era pel país el PP del PSOE, no?

make a distinction between how dangerous the PP was for the country compared to the PSOE, right?

Sempre hem dit que, justament, això que tu estàs descrivint, no?,

We have always said that, precisely, this that you are describing, right?

que, ostres, contra el PP el sentiment és més potent i més contestatari,

Wow, against the PP the sentiment is stronger and more rebellious,

que, justament, això era un problema de l'independentisme,

that, precisely, this was a problem of nationalism,

perquè, certament, el PSOE és el que és.

because, certainly, the PSOE is what it is.

La meva... No m'ha acabat de quedar clar, és a dir,

My... It hasn't really been clear to me, that is,

el fet que hi hagi els laboristes ara fa una mica el mateix efecte

The fact that the Labour Party is there now has a somewhat similar effect.

que aquí fa el PSOE en l'independentisme excursés?

What is the PSOE doing here in the independence excursions?

És a dir, se senten menys amenaçats pel laborisme?

That is to say, do they feel less threatened by laborism?

Jo crec que sí.

I think so.

A veure, és veritat que les últimes...

Let’s see, it’s true that the last...

Les últimes eleccions de Westminster no són un terreny de joc

The last Westminster elections are not a playing field.

que es pugui jutjar clarament, perquè, clar, venien d'uns toris,

that can be judged clearly, because, of course, they came from some bulls,

o sigui, amb el Rishi Sunak, amb la Listras i el Boris Johnson

So, with Rishi Sunak, Liz Truss, and Boris Johnson.

portaven tres primers ministres, que eren un desastre.

they had three prime ministers, who were a disaster.

Si no s'inclou a la Theresa May també en aquest sac, depèn de per qui.

If Theresa May is not included in this bag, it depends on who it is.

Però, clar, a l'hora de poder veure que hi havia una possibilitat

But, of course, when it came to seeing that there was a possibility.

que sortís un govern laborista a Westminster,

that a Labour government came to power in Westminster,

molta gent va decidir votar...

many people decided to vote...

votar laborista en lloc de S&P.

vote Labour instead of S&P.

Llavors, és veritat que l'S&P va perdre moltíssim,

So, it's true that the S&P lost a lot.

però, clar, no és 100% culpa de l'S&P,

but, of course, it's not 100% the S&P's fault,

sinó també va haver aquest vot de

but there was also this vote of

vale, anem a fer fora els toris.

Okay, let's get the bulls out.

Ara, en les pròximes eleccions de Holyrood,

Now, in the upcoming Holyrood elections,

que jo crec que seran més d'hora del que toca,

that I think they will be earlier than expected,

perquè veiem com van els vots del govern excursès,

because we see how the votes of the excursive government are going,

no poden ni passar els pressupostos,

they can't even pass the budgets,

o sigui que jo crec que això ens sona de fa poc.

So I think this sounds familiar to us from recently.

I jo crec que a partir d'aquí...

And I believe that from here...

Aquest serà el joc de terreny més evident.

This will be the most obvious ground game.

Però sí que veig que el suport cap als laboristes està creixent molt.

But I do see that support for the Labour Party is growing a lot.

A més, trobo que els laboristes excursèssos i el PSC

Furthermore, I find that the excursionist laborers and the PSC

són bastant similars,

they are quite similar,

en el sentit que no deixen de ser una secció local

in the sense that they remain a local section

d'un partit centrista.

of a centrist party.

I això a Escòcia sí que se li ha recriminat molt

And this has indeed been heavily criticized in Scotland.

al partit laborista excursès.

to the Labour Party excursion.

El líder del partit laborista excursès

The leader of the Labour Party went on an excursion.

ha sigut bastant intel·ligent

has been quite intelligent

i últimament ha estat intentant desmarcar-se

And lately, he has been trying to distance himself.

en certes votacions,

in certain votes,

o intentar fer alguns statements cap a la premsa

or try to make some statements to the press

com per intentar desmarcar-se una mica del Keir Starmer

as for trying to distance oneself a bit from Keir Starmer

per intentar favorir les pròximes eleccions

to try to favor the upcoming elections

cap al govern excursès.

towards the government excursion.

Però, bueno, jo crec que les pròximes eleccions

But, well, I think that the next elections

seran cap a un govern laborista excursès.

they will be towards a Labour government excursion.

Una mica com el que estem tenint ara.

A bit like what we are having now.

Hi ha una...

There is a...

El Marc Asolat també pregunta a través de les xarxes.

Marc Asolat also asks through social media.

Això vol dir que el Brexit ja no té cap efecte

This means that Brexit no longer has any effect.

per motivar la independència?

to motivate independence?

És a dir, que va haver-hi un moment

That is to say, there was a moment.

que semblava que el Brexit podia provocar

that it seemed that Brexit could lead to

la independència d'Escòcia

the independence of Scotland

i que això ja no té efecte?

And that this no longer has effect?

Totalment.

Totally.

O sigui, almenys és el feeling que tinc jo.

So, at least that's the feeling I have.

El 2021, just amb la pandèmia,

In 2021, just with the pandemic,

just amb un Brexit dur

just with a hard Brexit

que va acabar bastant malament,

which ended quite badly,

llavors, jo me'n recordo,

then, I remember,

la meva farmàcia m'enviava missatges de text

my pharmacy was sending me text messages

dient-me que els medicaments potser no m'arribaven

telling me that the medications might not reach me

i que hi havia faltes de medicaments,

and there were shortages of medications,

d'aliments, de tot,

of food, of everything,

per les noves fronteres

for the new borders

i el nou distanciament amb la Unió Europea.

And the new distancing from the European Union.

Ara molta gent,

Now many people,

s'ha oblidat.

has forgotten.

Ara l'únic que els molesta

Now the only thing that bothers them

és fer la cua llarga

it's to make the queue long

quan venen de vacances

When do they come on vacation?

a Benidorm o a Magaluf

to Benidorm or to Magaluf

i tenen que fer la cua llarga del passaport.

And they have to wait in the long passport line.

Crec que el moment

I believe that the moment

que comencin a realment

let them really begin

a adonar-se del que és el Brexit,

to realize what Brexit is,

perquè jo crec que encara no ho han paït realment,

because I think they still haven't really processed it,

veuran el que és

they will see what it is

i potser ja torna a ressorgir.

And perhaps it will rise again.

Però ara mateix la gent està assentada,

But right now people are sitting,

està una mica com...

it's a bit like...

No sé, empat...

I don’t know, empath...

O sigui, està plana.

So, it is flat.

No té cap interès.

It has no interest.

Està molt desenganxada.

It is very detached.

I és veritat que el Brexit va fer un punt enorme

And it is true that Brexit made a huge impact.

durant el 2021

during 2021

i ara la gent sembla que s'hagi oblidat.

And now people seem to have forgotten.

Tinc una altra pregunta

I have another question.

i és d'aquestes diferències que preguntava el Costa.

And it is about these differences that Costa was asking.

Com a mínim des d'aquí sembla, eh?

At least from here it seems so, right?

Que, per exemple, l'SNP va fer

That, for example, the SNP did.

durant un temps...

for a while...

Molta gent estava molt contenta

A lot of people were very happy.

amb com havia governat

with how he had governed

i llavors les xifres d'aprovació

and then the approval figures

d'aquells governs eren molt elevades

of those governments were very high

i això també va fer que creixés la independència.

And this also led to the growth of independence.

És a dir, aquí, en canvi,

That is to say, here, on the other hand,

els últims anys,

in recent years,

més aviat, la gent ha estat descontenta

rather, people have been unhappy

amb com s'ha governat.

with how it has been governed.

Que potser això també podria ser

That maybe this could be too.

una explicació d'aquesta diferència.

an explanation of this difference.

Totalment, totalment.

Totally, totally.

Crec que, per exemple,

I think that, for example,

amb el govern d'Esquerra

with the Esquerra government

o amb els governs abans proindependentistes

or with the previously pro-independence governments

sempre hi havia crítiques.

there were always criticisms.

Però, per exemple, amb el govern de l'SNP,

But, for example, with the SNP government,

almenys...

at least...

Clar, òbviament jo estava a l'SNP

Of course, I was in the SNP.

i llavors el que escoltava era tot bo,

and then what I was hearing was all good,

però inclou gent que no eren membres,

but includes people who were not members,

pel carrer tot eren bons comentaris

On the street, all the comments were positive.

i la gent podia adonar-se

and the people could realize

de realment un govern progressista

of truly a progressive government

que havia fet canvis impressionants.

that had made impressive changes.

Universitat gratuïta,

Free university,

autobusos gratuïts per gent de 21 anys,

free buses for people aged 21 years old,

dentista gratuït

free dentist

per gent de...

for people from...

per fins als 25 anys.

for up to 25 years.

Una barbaritat d'ajudes socials

An outrageous amount of social aid.

que Escòcia necessitava molt

that Scotland needed a lot

i que a Anglaterra o a Gales

and that in England or Wales

no es podien permetre

they could not afford

i que el govern escocès sempre va estar allà.

and that the Scottish government was always there.

De fet, va ser el primer país del món

In fact, it was the first country in the world.

en tenir educació obligatòria LGTBIQ+,

to have mandatory LGTBIQ+ education,

productes menstruals gratuïts.

free menstrual products.

Ha sigut un govern molt visionari,

It has been a very visionary government,

molt progressista.

very progressive.

Però, clar, també tenia una figura

But, of course, she also had a figure.

que era la Nicola Sturgeon.

Who was Nicola Sturgeon.

Una figura com ella,

A figure like her,

una figura que anava a Amèrica

a figure that was going to America

i tothom li treia la carpeta vermella,

and everyone took away the red folder,

que inclús anava a Anglaterra

that I even went to England

i hi havia gent que deia

and there were people who said

ostres, si es presentés jo la votaria.

Wow, if he/she ran, I would vote for him/her.

Clar, de cop i volta tens un referent tan gran

Sure, all of a sudden you have such a huge role model.

que no hi ha hagut herència.

that there has been no inheritance.

Va venir després el Hamza Youssef

Then Hamza Youssef came.

que va ser el primer primer ministre

who was the first prime minister

de descendents de paquistaní.

of Pakistani descent.

Va fer també coses molt bones

He also did very good things.

al poc curt temps que va estar,

in the short time that he was there,

però no hi ha hagut comparació a la Nicola.

but there has been no comparison to Nicola.

I ara mateix l'exempista com està?

And right now, how is the ex-employee?

Perquè no té un líder

Because it doesn't have a leader.

o no té cap referent

or has no reference

com el que tenien abans.

like what they had before.

Van passar de l'Alex Salmond a la Nicola

They went from Alex Salmond to Nicola.

i ara no hi ha ningú.

And now there is no one there.

I s'han quedat bastant orfes.

And they have been left quite orphaned.

I això jo crec que...

And I think that...

Una altra cosa comuna segurament que tenim, no?

Another common thing we probably have, right?

Falta de lideratges.

Lack of leadership.

Sí, i falta de noves generacions.

Yes, and a lack of new generations.

Jo crec que també hi ha hagut un interès en particular

I believe that there has also been a particular interest.

perquè, clar, política, quan ets primer ministeri,

because, of course, politics, when you are prime minister,

o més...

or more...

Ella, clar, ella era la mà dreta de l'Alex Salmond.

She, of course, she was the right hand of Alex Salmond.

Al moment que va poder, ella va fer el pas.

As soon as she was able, she took the step.

Jo crec que també hi ha aquesta por

I believe that there is also this fear.

quan estàs en aquest nivell

when you are at this level

que algú et vingui i et faci el pas com te'l van fent a tu.

that someone comes to you and takes the step like they did to you.

Llavors, en aquesta estratègia

Then, in this strategy

també entra el...

also enters the...

M'asseguro que no hi hagi generació

I make sure that there is no generation.

perquè així no m'asseguro que tingui competència.

because this way I don't ensure that I have competition.

Clar, el problema, quan te'n vas

Of course, the problem is when you leave.

i de la manera que se'n va anar d'un dia per l'altre,

and the way he left from one day to the next,

et quedes sense res.

you end up with nothing.

Llavors espero que això ho puguem aprendre

Then I hope we can learn this.

els catalans, els escocesos,

the Catalans, the Scots,

i tots els partits.

and all the matches.

Necessiteu tenir relleu generacional.

You need to have generational change.

Necessiteu tenir algú que us pugui

You need to have someone who can help you.

portar la batuta després.

take the lead later.

No va de vosaltres.

It's not about you.

Va de l'objectiu gran.

It goes for the big objective.

I per últim, Valentina,

And lastly, Valentina,

què podem aprendre d'Escòcia

What can we learn from Scotland?

des de Catalunya?

from Catalonia?

Jo crec que podem aprendre

I believe that we can learn.

moltes obres socials,

many social works,

el focus cap al ciutadà,

the focus on the citizen,

que jo crec que almenys a Catalunya

that I believe that at least in Catalonia

podríem estar fent més coses per alleujar

we could be doing more things to alleviate

el cost de vida dels ciutadans

the cost of living for citizens

i facilitar-los la vida.

and make their life easier.

I sobretot,

And above all,

el sapiguer quan trobar el moment

the knowing when to find the moment

de negociar.

to negotiate.

Jo crec que va haver un moment

I believe there was a moment.

després del referèndum

after the referendum

o van haver uns moments d'incertesa

there were moments of uncertainty

que podríem haver aprofitat

that we could have taken advantage of

i crec que vam perdre

I think we lost.

algunes ocasions.

some occasions.

Però clar, això és fàcil criticar-ho des de fora,

But of course, it's easy to criticize it from the outside,

no quan estàs a dins.

not when you are inside.

Però crec que l'ESMP sempre ha sigut

But I believe that the ESMP has always been

algú bastant de joc net,

someone quite fair play,

bastant de política old school

quite a bit of old school politics

i té els seus avantatges

and it has its advantages

i els seus desavantatges,

and its disadvantages,

però clar, també és veritat

but of course, it is also true

que el sistema polític a Westminster

that the political system at Westminster

i a Espanya també és diferent en aquest aspecte.

And in Spain, it is also different in this aspect.

A Espanya no hi ha aquest old school

In Spain, there is no this old school.

ni aquest joc de cavallers

nor this game of knights

ni d'elegància.

nor of elegance.

Llavors, si escoltem el Congreso de los Diputados

Then, if we listen to the Congress of Deputies

sempre al bar del poble

always at the village bar

més que un Congreso de los Diputados.

more than a Congress of Deputies.

Llavors, això sí que

Then, that indeed

aquesta decència política,

this political decency,

potser aquests no atacs personals

perhaps these are not personal attacks

també podríem aprendre de la política escocesa.

We could also learn from Scottish politics.

Perfecte, doncs moltíssimes gràcies

Perfect, then thank you very much.

per situar-nos, per ajudar-nos a entendre

to situate ourselves, to help us understand

una mica més el que està passant

a little more of what is happening

i fins la pròxima.

And until next time.

Tot un plaer, moltes gràcies per tenir-me

A pleasure, thank you very much for having me.

i ja sabeu, qualsevol moment sempre estic disponible.

And you know, I am always available at any time.

Molt bé i bon vol.

Very good and have a good flight.

Gràcies. Adéu, bona tertúlia.

Thank you. Goodbye, have a nice chat.

Gràcies.

Thank you.

Ella ara parlava d'aspectes socials

She was now talking about social aspects.

i aquesta setmana d'aspectes socials

and this week of social aspects

hi ha hagut un tema important

there has been an important issue

i un tema

and a topic

que crec que tots hem

that I think we all have

debatut en algun moment.

debated at some point.

Que ha sigut

What has happened?

el no de Junts

the no of Junts

aquest dimarts

this Tuesday

va tombar

it fell

diguéssim la llei

let's say the law

al Congrés Espanyol.

to the Spanish Congress.

La formació va votar en contra

The party voted against.

la proposició de llei impulsada per sumar

the bill proposed by Sumar

per regular els lloguers de temporada

to regulate seasonal rentals

per habitacions

by rooms

arran de les reclamacions

following the complaints

dels sindicats de llogueters.

of the tenants' unions.

Que el problema

That the problem

és un dels problemes principals

It is one of the main problems.

crec que no cal que ho debatim

I don't think we need to debate it.

que estem tots d'acord

that we all agree

que ara mateix

that right now

el Congrés Espanyol

the Spanish Congress

els lloguers

the rents

és un problema

it's a problem

per la ciutadania

for the citizenship

sobretot pels joves

especially for young people

cada vegada ens costa

each time it is harder for us

més poder trobar lloguers

more power to find rentals

sobretot a Barcelona, València

especially in Barcelona, Valencia

Palma, Formentera, Ibiza

es converteix impossible

it becomes impossible

és a dir, en les grans ciutats

that is to say, in the large cities

perquè el turisme

because of tourism

està fent molt de mal

it is causing a lot of pain

això crec que no cal que ho debatim

I don't think we need to discuss this.

que estem d'acord 100% tots

that we are 100% agreed all of us

que hi ha un problema

that there is a problem

una crisi

a crisis

diguéssim

let's say

jo crec que és més que un problema

I believe it is more than a problem.

ja és una crisi

it is already a crisis

diguéssim

let's say

és un col·lapse

it is a collapse

bàsicament

basically

de totes maneres

anyway

jo faria una mica

I would do a little.

per ordenar el debat

to organize the debate

ja sé que

I already know that

ordena-ho tu

organize it yourself

no, no

avui jo debato

Today I debate.

l'ordenar

to arrange

ja sé que això

I already know that.

estàs ensorpant

you are drowning

estic ensorpant

I am sinking.

en el lloc

in the place

no, però

no, but

jo ara

me now

ara estava intentant

now I was trying

és a dir

that is to say

hi ha una part

there is a part

tècnica

technique

i de la realitat

and of reality

és a dir

that is to say

el que està passant

what is happening

i les conseqüències

and the consequences

que està patint

that is suffering

tota la societat

the whole society

aquesta és una part

this is a part

després

after

hi ha una altra part

there is another part

d'aquest debat

of this debate

d'aquestes últimes hores

of these last hours

que té a veure

what does it have to do with

amb el partidisme

with partisanship

i jo encara

and me still

parlaria

he/she would speak

d'una tercera pota

of a third leg

del que hem vist

from what we have seen

aquestes últimes hores

these last hours

que és

what is it

deixem-me dir

let me tell you

colonialisme

colonialism

polític

politician

llavors

then

la realitat

the reality

el partidisme

partisanship

i el colonialisme

and colonialism

polític

politician

ja està

it's done

jo ho volia ordenar així

I wanted to organize it this way.

i ara si voleu

and now if you want

llavors

then

perquè hem de començar

because we have to start

jo no ho sé

I don't know.

per quin

for which

per quin s'ha de començar

which one should be started with

ara

now

ja sé que hem canviat de tema

I know we've changed the subject.

una mica

a little bit

però jo

but I

que m'ha encantat

that I have loved

aquests 20 minuts

these 20 minutes

que hem parlat

that we have talked

amb la Valentina

with Valentina

que

that

en el 90%

in 90%

del temps

of time

no sabíem

we didn't know

si parlàvem d'Escòcia

if we were talking about Scotland

o de Catalunya

or from Catalonia

no?

és a dir

that is to say

perquè

because

és la realitat

it is the reality

parlant

talking

de la realitat

of reality

de la teva classificació

of your ranking

jo crec que les semblances

I believe that the similarities

són espectaculars

they are spectacular

i bàsicament

and basically

el més

the month

el més destacable

the most remarkable

per mi

for me

és

it is

és que

it is that

corrobora

corroborates

i això també ho podria corroborar

and I could also corroborate this

la situació de Quebec

the situation of Quebec

etc.

que és que

what is that

els processos d'independència

the independence processes

tenen un punt cíclic

they have a cyclic point

i tenen un punt

and they have a point

diguéssim

let's say

podríem dir

we could say

d'aquests

of these

momentums

o d'aquests

or of these

moments

que semblen finestres d'oportunitat

that seem like windows of opportunity

i després hi ha una cosa

And then there is one thing.

que sempre

that always

l'hem anomenat

we have named it

l'agenda política

the political agenda

que és que

what is it that

quan el tema està a l'agenda

when the topic is on the agenda

això transforma

this transforms

la motivació de la gent

the motivation of the people

ara fa 10 anys

ten years ago

que es va fer el referèndum d'Escòcia

what was the Scottish referendum held for

però quan es va programar

but when it was scheduled

quan es va convocar

when it was summoned

el referèndum d'Escòcia

the Scotland referendum

no hi havia absolutament

there was absolutely none

cap expectativa

no expectations

que Escòcia

that Scotland

pogués ser independent

could be independent

el suport per la independència

the support for independence

era baixíssim

he was very short

quan es va convocar

when it was called

el referèndum

the referendum

i va ser el fet

and it was the fact

que es va convocar

that was called

de posar

to put

el referèndum a l'agenda

the referendum on the agenda

que va estimular

that stimulated

l'independentisme

independence movement

és a dir

that is to say

el referèndum

the referendum

els escocers

the Scots

independentistes

independence supporters

el varen perdre

they lost him

però varen guanyar

but they won

la credibilitat

credibility

del projecte independentista

of the independence project

que abans de fer el referèndum

that before holding the referendum

no s'ho creia ningú

no one believed it

que poguessin ser independents

that they could be independent

i va ser un salt endavant

It was a leap forward.

per l'independentisme

for independence

i per tant

and therefore

quan tu poses

when you put

una data a l'agenda

a date in the calendar

quan tu poses el tema

when you bring up the topic

al centre del debat polític

at the center of the political debate

això sempre

this always

és una victòria

it's a victory

per la proposta d'independència

for the independence proposal

obliga que es parli d'això

it forces one to talk about this

i llavors

and then

sempre és un salt endavant

it's always a step forward

sempre et fa créixer

always makes you grow

sempre et fa mobilitzar

it always makes you mobilize

fa que la gent s'impliqui

makes people get involved

i fa que la gent

and it makes people

en el moment que ho veu

at the moment he/she sees it

com una opció realista

as a realistic option

s'hi apunti

això ha passat a Catalunya

this has happened in Catalonia

això ha passat a Quebec

this has happened in Quebec

això ha passat a Escòcia

this has happened in Scotland

i quan deixa d'estar a l'agenda

And when does it stop being on the agenda?

quan arriba un senyor

when a gentleman arrives

simpàtic

nice

més moderat

more moderate

digue-li Pedro Sánchez

tell him Pedro Sánchez

digue-li Sturmer

tell him Sturmer

digue-li Trudeau

tell him Trudeau

digue-li...

tell him...

és a dir

that is to say

el Canadà

Canada

quan arriba

when it arrives

el progre

the progressive

de l'altre costat

on the other side

que és una mica més simpàtic

that is a little friendlier

i tal

and such

aquí

here

el PSC guanya les eleccions

the PSC wins the elections

Escòcia les guanya

Scotland wins them.

l'alaborisme

laborism

és com tot una mica

it's like everything a little bit

molt semblant

very similar

el que segurament

what surely

ens

ens diferencia molt

it differentiates us a lot

són

they are

les circumstàncies històriques

the historical circumstances

i les condicions de fons

and the underlying conditions

és a dir

that is to say

les condicions materials

the material conditions

econòmiques

economic

històriques

historical

les institucions

the institutions

que sí que són

that they are indeed

molt diferents

very different

és a dir

that is to say

Espanya

Spain

i el Regne Unit

and the United Kingdom

no tenen res a veure

they have nothing to do with it

però Catalunya-Escòcia

but Catalonia-Scotland

els moviments independentistes

the independence movements

de Catalunya-Escòcia

of Catalonia-Scotland

cada vegada

every time

s'assemblen més

they resemble more

perquè

because

també

also

ells cada vegada

they every time

parlen més

they speak more

de la via catalana

of the Catalan way

perquè els hi ha

because there are to them

allò que dèiem

that which we were saying

que

that

nosaltres

ens agradaria

we would like

que

that

Espanya

Spain

pogués semblar-se

could resemble

el Regne Unit

the United Kingdom

al final

in the end

és el Regne Unit

it is the United Kingdom

que s'està semblant

that is becoming similar

Espanya

Spain

això tu

this you

ho havies dit

you had said it

en alguna

in some

d'aquelles xerrades

of those talks

que fèiem l'any passat

what we did last year

i l'altra

and the other

que

that

que en el moment

that at the moment

que

that

que es proposa

what is proposed

que a Catalunya

that in Catalonia

la gent voti

let people vote

la independència

independence

algú podria haver dit

someone could have said

no, votxos

no, you win

perquè

because

som una minoria

we are a minority

molt gran

very big

els independentistes

the independents

però el fet

but the fact

de posar-se

to put on

a debatre

to debate

sobre el tema

about the topic

a contemplar-ho

to contemplate it

com una opció real

as a real option

i no només això

and not only that

sinó

but rather

a qüestionar

to question

que

that

les coses

the things

com estan

how are they

poden estar

they can be

d'una altra manera

in another way

és a dir

that is to say

quan no se'n parla

when it's not talked about

qui guanya

who wins

és

it is

l'estat

the state

és a dir

that is to say

si no parla

if he/she does not speak

d'algú

of someone

si no parla

if he/she does not speak

de canviar

to change

alguna cosa

something

les coses

the things

queden com estan

remain as they are

i per tant

and therefore

no sorgeix

does not arise

aquesta pulsió

this drive

d'anar-les a canviar

to go change them

si obres el debat

if you open the debate

bueno

good

per això

that's why

l'estat

the state

per exemple

for example

fa mans i mànigues

makes hands and sleeves

per no preguntar

not to ask

sobre la monarquia

about the monarchy

en segons

in seconds

quines enquestes

which surveys

és a dir

that is to say

a l'estat

to the state

el seu

his/her/its

major interès

greater interest

és que

it's that

no se'n parli

Let's not talk about it.

d'ell

of him

és a dir

that is to say

que

that

que la situació

that the situation

actual

current

sigui

be it

tan estable

so stable

que

that

que ni la vegis

that you don't even see it

és a dir

that is to say

que no veiem

that we do not see

l'opressió

the oppression

quan tu te poses

when you take off

a parlar de la independència

to talk about independence

evidentment

obviously

surten

they go out

els motius històrics

the historical reasons

els motius econòmics

the economic reasons

els motius

the reasons

aquí l'estat

here the state

ocu

I occupy

tant

so much

l'estat espanyol

the Spanish state

com el

like him

Regne Unit

United Kingdom

està guanyant

is winning

terreny

land

no per convèncer

not to convince

que l'estat

that the state

ocu

ocus

sigui bo

be good

sinó

but

per

for

d'alguna manera

somehow

torpedinar

to torpedo

la credibilitat

credibility

de l'independentisme

of independence

és a dir

that is to say

quan

when

els primers

the firsts

ministres

ministers

britànics

British

diuen

they say

que ni parlar-ne

that’s not even worth discussing

de fer un altre referèndum

to hold another referendum

estan dient

they are saying

la independència

independence

no és una opció

it is not an option

que estigui sobre la taula

that is on the table

no és possible

it is not possible

no passarà

it won't happen

podeu opinar

you can give your opinion

el que vulgueu

whatever you want

que no hi haurà

that there will not be

independència

independence

a la seva manera

in his/her own way

estan fent el mateix

they are doing the same

que Espanya

that Spain

ja ha renunciat

he has already resigned

a convèncer

to convince

els catalans

the Catalans

que ser

what to be

súbdits

subjects

de la monarquia

of the monarchy

borbònica

Bourbonic

és una cosa

it is one thing

positiva

positive

simplement

simply

s'han dedicat

they have been dedicated

a convèncer la gent

to convince people

que si ho intentem

that if we try it

rebre mosquis

to receive wasps

fins al carnet d'identitat

up to the identity card

i que

and that

faran tot el possible

they will do everything possible

per impedir-ho

to prevent it

però no

but no

no volen

they don't want

already

convèncer ningú

convince anyone

que

that

ser espanyols

to be Spanish

és fantàstic

it's fantastic

sembla ser

seems to be

a primera vista

at first glance

podria semblar

it could seem

que s'està funcionant

that is being worked on

perquè últimament

because lately

veiem el Borbón

we see the Bourbon

i tant que funciona

of course it works

ara

now

això funciona molt

this works very well

funciona molt

it works a lot

però

but

I jo també

Me too.

crec que

I think that

pot arribar a ser

can become

inestable

unstable

és a dir

that is to say

és molt inestable

it is very unstable

és veritat que ara

it's true that now

està funcionant

it is working

però

but

si tu no convences

if you don't convince

al final

in the end

o sigui

that is to say

és

it is

des del seu punt de vista

from his/her point of view

jo crec

I believe.

des del nostre

from our

jo crec que és una bona notícia

I think it is good news.

ara sí que està funcionant

Now it's really working.

però la seva base

but its base

jo crec que és feble

I think it is weak.

en el sentit

in the sense

de que

of what

al final la gent

in the end, people

una de dues

one of two

o s'ho està aguantant

or is he/she holding it in

o senzillament

or simply

està pensant

he/she is thinking

en una altra cosa

in another thing

però

but

això pot canviar

this can change

aguantar-se

to hold on

tu pots deixar

you can leave

d'aguantar-te

of holding you

i deixar de pensar

and stop thinking

en aquella cosa

in that thing

pots tornar a pensar

you can think again

en qualsevol moment

at any moment

per tant

therefore

que jo crec que

that I believe that

Illa

Island

el govern d'Illa

the government of Illa

pot tenir la pulsió

can have the impulse

aquesta de dir

this of saying

no, anem a convèncer-los

no, let's convince them

que amb nosaltres

that with us

està bé

it's okay

li veig més

I see him/her more.

que

that

a la corona

to the crown

però jo crec que

but I think that

cap dels dos

neither of the two

els hi acabaré

I will finish it for them.

vull dir

I mean

crec que no poden construir

I think they can't build.

res de gaire estable

nothing very stable

ara

now

és veritat

it is true

que l'independentisme

that independence movement

ha de ser capaç

must be capable

de desestabilitzar

to destabilize

veure

to see

aquesta

this

vull dir que

I mean that

la responsabilitat

the responsibility

la pilota

the ball

està a la nostra taulada

it's on our table

ara

now

sí

yes

home el gir pujolista

man the pujolista turn

d'en Salvador Illa

of Salvador Illa

és

it is

diguéssim

let's say

significatiu

significant

i ara potser

and now perhaps

podríem parlar d'habitatge

we could talk about housing

no no

però

but

escolta

listen

mira

look

la tercera pota

the third leg

d'això

of this

que jo li he posat

that I have put on him/her

colonialisme

colonialism

polític

politician

té a veure

has to do with

tant

so much

amb

with

lo que ha passat

what has happened

aquestes últimes hores

these last hours

amb la votació de Junts

with the vote of Junts

en relació a lo de l'habitatge

in relation to housing

com

how

amb que Salvador Illa

with Salvador Illa

hagi rebut

has received

a Pujol

to Pujol

ho poso sobre la taula

I put it on the table.

no sé si primer

I don't know if first.

fer la

do it

la salvedat

the exception

és a dir

that is to say

sincerament

honestly

veig

I see

que davant

that in front

la gravíssima

the very serious one

problemàtica

issue

que s'està vivint

that is being lived

social

i nacional

and national

perquè també

because also

la qüestió

the question

de l'habitatge

of housing

també té un impacte

it also has an impact

per exemple

for example

que

that

en com

in how

desapareix

disappears

la llengua catalana

the Catalan language

de barri sencer

of an entire neighborhood

de Barcelona

from Barcelona

perquè els catalans

because the Catalans

senzillament

simply

no es poden permetre

they cannot be allowed

viure allà

live there

i han de marxar en massa

They have to leave in droves.

és a dir

that is to say

és una crisi

it is a crisis

multidimensional

que té molts factors

that has many factors

però

but

i llavors

and then

jo veig

I see

el que fa

what he does

Junts per Catalunya

Together for Catalonia

i el que ha fet ahir

and what he did yesterday

i jo no

and I don't

no ho comparteixo

I don't share it.

he sentit

I have heard.

a les joventuts

to the youth

nacionalistes

nationalists

de Catalunya

from Catalonia

dir no no

say no no

l'habitatge

the housing

és un bé de mercat

it's a market good

com qualsevol altre

like anyone else

que diguin

let them say

ostres

oysters

jo no ho veig

I don't see it.

de cap manera

by no means

i després podem entrar

and then we can go in

en el fons de la qüestió

at the bottom of the matter

dit això

that said

a mi em preocupa

I am worried.

justament

justly

perquè crec

because I believe

que és un debat

what is a debate

molt important

very important

en el qual

in which

ens hi juguem molt

we have a lot at stake

però jo veig

but I see

que hi ha una sèrie de gent reaccionant

that there is a number of people reacting

davant del que ha fet Junts per Catalunya

in light of what Junts per Catalunya has done

que quan el PSOE

that when the PSOE

durant anys

for years

ha fet el mateix

has done the same

no han reaccionat

they have not reacted

i això em preocupa

and this concerns me

no per el dany

not for the damage

que li pugui causar

that it may cause him/her

Junts per Catalunya

Together for Catalonia

sinó perquè s'està establint

but because it is being established

una manera d'avaluar les qüestions

a way to assess the issues

que no té res a veure

that has nothing to do

amb la realitat material

with the material reality

ni de l'habitatge

nor of housing

ni de cap altra cosa

nor of anything else

és a dir

that is to say

i no parlo del sindicat del Llogatès

and I'm not talking about the Llogatès union

em sembla perfecte

it seems perfect to me

que el sindicat del Llogatès

that the Renters' Union

es manifesti davant de la seu de Junts

protest in front of the Junts headquarters

de l'esquerra

from the left

del PSOE

from the PSOE

i és veritat

and it is true

que el sindicat del Llogatès

that the Tenants' Union

i això ho vull dir

and I want to say this

perquè a Twitter

because on Twitter

s'hi ha dit una cosa

one thing has been said about it

el sindicat del Llogatès

the Renters' Union

ha sigut molt dur

it has been very hard

també amb el PSOE

also with the PSOE

quan el PSOE

when the PSOE

ha esclafat

has crushed

qualsevol regulació

any regulation

de l'habitatge

of the housing

el que passa és que hi ha

what happens is that there is

tota una lluita partidista

a whole partisan struggle

poso els comuns

I put the commons.

poso Esquerra Republicana

I vote for Esquerra Republicana.

que

that

When the PSOE

did exactly the same as Junts

they didn't criticize it

or they said

well, we have to talk

Well, we have to talk.

we have to negotiate

we have to stretch the PSOE

I don't know what

and when they do it together

they criticize it to death

for me

it's just as negative

from a point of view

of the habitatge

of the housing

what the PSOE does

and what Junts does

said that

va dir que

it worries me a lot

that the criticism

has to do

with

what Junts does

why do I say it?

because if

Torra

had invited Jordi Pujol

to the Palau de la Generalitat

the cries of the communists

and of Esquerra Republicana

and of Rufián

would have been heard

until Japan

fins al Japó

on the other hand

now

ara

they are all quiet

when Salvador Illa does this

and I think

i crec

that this colonialism

of saying

of evaluating

the facts

in relation

to battles

that have nothing to do

with the rent

amb el lloguer

or with Jordi Pujol

but rather

sinó que

well

good

not to mention

Íñigo Arrejón

I mean

even with a point

of catalanophobia

of saying

we allow the Spaniards

something

that we don't allow

the Catalans

being the same thing

to put a little context

to provide a little context

sorry

Sorry

I don't know

I don't know.

if I have explained

or if I have extended

you have explained

perfect

to put a little context

of what Alba said

on September 2020

in September 2020

the Catalan Law

of the Habitatge

of the Housing

is approved

that among other things

limits the tenants

from a reference index

that makes

of Tupall

in areas

tensionades

stretched

with tourism

amb turisme

and vote in favour

and vote in favor

Esquerra

Left

Junts

Together

Comuns

Commons

and the CUP

against

Ciutadans

Citizens

and the PP

and who knows

the PSC

on June 2021

in June 2021

the Spanish government

formed by

PSOE

and Podemos

that is

the current

sumar

to add

was also

within this government

dins d'aquest govern

imposes

the Catalan Regulatory Law

the paper

is also

interposed

interposes

a resource

to the Spanish Constitutional Tribunal

to the Spanish Constitutional Court

they say

that

state competences

are invading

and the TCC

finally

breaks

this law

at that moment

I don't remember

I don't remember.

that everyone

put the cell

of what was

doing

fent

Sumari

Summary

and what was

doing

fent

the PSOE

is more

what was said

it is necessary

to continue

negotiating

negociant

with the PSOE

why

per què

it is not necessary

to continue

negotiating

negociant

with Junts

because

fixa

fixed

is that

you enter

in a dynamic

sorry

that I take the word

you enter

in a dynamic

that has been

for a few years

when

the Parliament

of Catalonia

approved

a law

and the

Constitutional

Constitucional

Tribunal

the

fell

fallen

this

made us

take a

break

towards

the

independence

we said

man

make

a law

and

Spain

the

load

what

we have

accelerate

towards

the

independence

and

now

ara

we have

reached

the point

that

since

Spain

has

super

cool

government

Sumari

Summary

and

such

when

the

Spanish

government

falls

law

sorry

yes

when

the

Spanish

government

causes

the

response

some

alguns

characters

these

well

good

since

we have

the

Spanish

government

we will

make

the

law

Spain

this

I have

already

done

many

times

yes

but

they

ells

did

still

don't

say

that

yes

then

since

approved

it's

the

fault

those

aquells

who

don't

vote

because

don't

have

enough

majority

but

course

all

this

think

needs

necessitats

much

perspective

than

what

have

because

with

amb

vote

and

well

I don't

know

saber

think

pensar

that

all

part

the

autonomous

game

together

it's

evident

that

there

need

necessitar

discuss

that

has

you have

made

drift

the

right

since

the

government

came out

since

the

opposition

Pere

Peter

Aragonès

Aragonese

has

you have

opted

for

one

opposition

economic

issues

business

model

the

fiscal

socio-economic

issues

accentuating

accentuant

the

profile

centre

center

right

dret

this

very

legitimate

option

they

will

voluntat

know

why

per què

they

and

therefore

this

leads

them

make

these

votes

but

course

the

whole

issue

the

habitat

whoever

says

that

the

problem

the

habitat

Barcelona

approved

this

law

that

was

approved

Madrid

that

are

deceiving

but

well

are

deceiving

the

voters

votants

the

commun

common

let's

say

they

ells

are

being

lady

who

was

the

ideologist

and

the

leader

the

platform

the

land

for

the

mortgage

that

was

the

main

flag

the

issue

the

habitat

reason

political

that

was

given

davat

know

politically

with

activism

for

the

habitat

arrives

the

council

Barcelona

eight

years

and

when

goes

the

issue

the

problem

that

deeply

structural

deeply

the

problems

the

country

have

the

tourism

the

economic

model

also

all the

mobility

that

there

the

digital

society

because

perquè

the

big

cities

the

country

well

has

become

also

place

which

people

establish

for

pure

convenience

conveniència

climatological

work

does not

pay

taxes

does not

integrate

does not

do anything

more than

working

treballant

remotely

the

nomadic

workers

that

simply

the

only

contribution

they make

in the

country

pay

lawyer

and

consume

bars

and

restaurants

the

country

and

the

country

and

the

country

and

the

country

and

this

sense

without

clar

clear

amb

with

the

cap

the

copa

cup

amèrica

America

és a

it is a

dir

say

estem

we are

criticant

criticizing

Junts

Together

que

that

també

also

m'hi

to it

sumo

I add.

the

crítica

criticism

de no

of no

aprovar

to approve

perquè

because

a més a

in addition to

més

era una

it was a

pressa

hurry

consideració

consideration

a més a

in addition to

més

per això

therefore

que hi havia

that there was

molt de

a lot of

temps per

time for

negociar

to negotiate

si creien

if they believed

que hi

What is there?

havien

they had

coses

things

que no

anava

was going

bé

good

crec que

I believe that

no calia

it wasn't necessary

tombar-ho

knock it down

de primeres

at first

a més a

in addition to

més

però

but

clar

clear

estan

they are

criticant

criticizing

això

this

però

but

com

how

afecta

affects

the

copa

cup

amèrica

America

preu

price

del

of the

lloguer

rental

Barcelona

perquè

because

comuns

commons

socialistes

socialists

esquerra

left

els que ara estan posant el crit al cel

those who are now raising a cry to the heavens

han portat la copa amèrica

they have brought the America Cup

a Barcelona

to Barcelona

i això

and this

també està fent fora

it is also kicking out

gent

people

que no pot pagar

that cannot pay

aquests lloguers perquè

these rents because

els estan alquilant

They are renting them.

els estan llogant

They are renting them.

a persones que

to people who

venen uns mesos

they come in a few months

i que poden pagar

and they can pay

el que vulguin

whatever they want

perquè tenen diners a sobres

because they have money to spare

a la barceloneta

to Barceloneta

per això dic que

that's why I say that

el problema és

the problem is

la deslocalització

the relocation

digital

la copa amèrica

the America Cup

tota una sèrie de qüestions

a whole series of issues

la estructura

the structure

de propietat

owned

això també

this too

i en això

and in this

crec que el sindicat

I believe that the union

de llogaters

of tenants

ha fet una pedagogia

he has created a pedagogy

molt gran

very big

en el sentit de dir

in the sense of saying

ostres

oysters

és que tenim

it's that we have

la caixa que té

the box that you have

milers de pisos

thousands of apartments

a Barcelona

to Barcelona

milers de pisos

thousands of apartments

a Barcelona

to Barcelona

i que juguen

and they play

no sé si vau sentir

I don't know if you heard.

l'altra dia

the other day

la notícia

the news

d'aquests

of these

propietaris

owners

de pisos turístics

of tourist apartments

amenaçant

threatening

la Generalitat

the Government of Catalonia

amb denunciar-los

with denouncing them

per lucre cessant

for lost profits

que s'acabin

let them end

les concessions

the concessions

per tenir pisos turístics

to have tourist apartments

és a dir

that is to say

aquí hi ha un lobby

here is a lobby

a vegades

sometimes

es parla

it is spoken

d'aquella senyora

of that lady

pobra

poor

que lloga el seu piset

that rents out his flat

per treure's

to take off

un complement

a complement

de la jubilació

of the retirement

escolta'm

listen to me

hi ha molt

there is a lot

això existeix

this exists

també

also

hi ha molta gent

there are a lot of people

clar que existeix

of course it exists

però

but

tothom es beneficia

everyone benefits

no cal que tenguis

you don't need to have

15 pisos

15 apartments

per beneficiar-te

to benefit you

especulativament

speculatively

del turisme

of tourism

hi ha gent

there are people

que només en té un

that only has one

ara

now

això havia passat

this had happened

això passa a llocs

this happens in places

com a Eivissa

like in Ibiza

però a més fa molts anys

but also many years ago

és a dir

that is to say

hi ha gent

there are people

que només té una casa

that only has one house

i que se'n va

and he's leaving

per llogar-la

for rent

se'n va

he/she is leaving

a viure

to live

durant la temporada turística

during the tourist season

durant els 3 mesos

during the 3 months

més forts

stronger

se'n van a viure

they are going to live there

a casa dels pares

at the parents' house

o a casa d'uns amics

or at some friends' house

o se'n van a viure

or they go to live

a un altre lloc

to another place

per poder llogar

to be able to rent

i especular

and speculate

amb el pis

with the apartment

pels turistes

for the tourists

això també passa

this also happens

no només

not only

als gans tenidors

to the holding geese

no clar

not clear

però justament per això

but precisely for that reason

existeixen

they exist

les regulacions

the regulations

que tenen en compte

that they take into account

aquests

these

aquests factors

these factors

per exemple

for example

abans parlava

I used to speak.

de la joventut

of the youth

nacionalista de Catalunya

Catalan nationalist

que deia

what he/she said

no, l'habitatge

no, the housing

és un bé de mercat

it is a market good

bueno, clar

well, of course

els aliments

the foods

també són un bé de mercat

they are also a market good

i la Unió Europea

and the European Union

intervé

intervenes

vull dir

I mean

això ha passat

this has happened

es compren

they are bought

collites senceres

whole harvests

es guarden

they are kept

fins que hi ha gana

until there is hunger

i quan hi ha gana

And when there's hunger.

véns el blat més car

you sell the wheat more expensive

clar

clear

on te posem

we put you

el límit

the limit

no?

generar gana

to generate hunger

generar

generate

és una manera lícita

it is a lawful way

de fer negoci

of doing business

això s'ha fet

this has been done

i això s'ha denunciat

and this has been reported

és a dir

that is to say

s'han comprat collites

crops have been bought

i en comptes de vendre-les

and instead of selling them

es guarden

are kept

quan la gent comença

when people start

a passar gana

to go hungry

el preu puja

the price rises

i llavors

and then

guanyen més diners

they earn more money

això

this

és el lliure mercat

it is the free market

ho hem de permetre

we have to allow it

s'ha de regular

it must be regulated

sobre qui

about whom

ha de caure

must fall

la regulació

the regulation

ha de caure

must fall

sobre la senyora

about the lady

que intenta treure's

that tries to take off

un sobresou

an extra income

amb el piset

with the little flat

que té

what it has

és

it is

per això dic

that's why I say

que la regulació

that the regulation

yes

No, no, que cada un faci el que vulgui

No, no, let each one do what they want.

cada un faci el que vulgui

everyone do what they want

la caixa farà

the box will do

el que li interessi a ella

what interests her

i si per davant

and if ahead

s'emporta el país

takes the country away

la llengua

the language

els barris

the neighborhoods

la capital del país

the capital of the country

i tot

and everything

ho farà

he will do it

perquè la caixa

because the box

només té un objectiu

it only has one objective

jo entenc que

I understand that

com a país

as a country

i a més a més

and furthermore

en les condicions

in the conditions

que està el país

what is the country

s'ha de regular

it must be regulated

dit això

that said

torno al meu punt inicial

I return to my starting point.

, la problemàtica del lloguer

the issue of rental

és secundària

it is secondary

és una

it's a

una eina

a tool

de lluita partidista

of partisan struggle

sense

entrar en el debat real

enter the real debate

amb

with

amb aquest objectiu

with this objective

jo crec que fa

I think it does.

que hi ha un problema

that there is a problem

de fons

background

i per això crec que estic

And that's why I think I am.

estic absolutament d'acord amb tu

I completely agree with you.

i crec que

I believe that

aquí hi ha molt de partidisme

there is a lot of partisanship here

hi ha molt de relat

there is a lot of storytelling

hi ha molta propaganda

there is a lot of propaganda

i poques solucions

and few solutions

perquè el tema de l'habitatge

because the issue of housing

fa molt de temps que està

it has been a long time since it has been

a l'agenda política

to the political agenda

s'intenta legislar

efforts are being made to legislate

des de

from

des de la llei

from the law

de l'emergència

of the emergency

habitacional

residential

la llei

the law

del 2015

from 2015

que es va fer

what was done

la iniciativa legislativa popular

the popular legislative initiative

de la

of the

antidesnonaments

anti-evictions

etc, etc

les lleis

the laws

que s'han fet

that have been done

o intents

or attempts

de tramitar lleis

of processing laws

que s'han fet

that have been made

al Parlament de Catalunya

in the Parliament of Catalonia

etc, etc

tot això

all this

fa molts anys

many years ago

que dura

how hard

i la situació

and the situation

no deixa

does not let

d'agraujar-se

to worsen

és a dir

that is to say

cada vegada

every time

és més catastròfic

it's more catastrophic

la situació

the situation

i tot el que s'ha fet

and everything that has been done

és a dir

that is to say

jo crec que

I believe that

no es pot dir

it cannot be said

ni tan sols

not even

que hagi servit

that has served

per pal·liar

to alleviate

la situació

the situation

jo crec que

I believe that

moltes coses

many things

que s'han fet

that have been made

s'ha de dir

it must be said

amb tota tranquil·litat

with complete calmness

moltes de les coses

many of the things

que s'han fet

that have been done

han empitjorat

they have worsened

el problema

the problem

bueno de fet

well in fact

aquesta llei

this law

que estem parlant ara

that we are talking now

aquesta proposta

this proposal

de llei

by law

que estem parlant ara

that we are talking about now

és una conseqüència

it is a consequence

de la llei

of the law

que es va fer

what was done

el 2023

the 2023

que va aprovar

that was approved

el Congrés Espanyol

the Spanish Congress

és a dir

that is to say

el 2023

the 2023

s'aprovava

was approved

aquesta llei

this law

però

but

és a dir

that is to say

sumar

to add

va dir l'altre dia

he said the other day

que aquesta llei actual

that this current law

estava feta

I was done.

perquè els lloguers

because the rents

de temporada

in season

i per habitacions

and for rooms

es converteixen

they become

eren una escletxa

they were a gap

on es podia

where it could be

anar a pujar

going to climb

els preus

the prices

no?

per què?

why?

perquè la llei del 2023

because of the law of 2023

el PSOE

the PSOE

va ser qui es va negar

it was he who refused

a incloure

to include

aquests lloguers

these rents

en aquesta llei

in this law

i de fet

and in fact

malgrat que

despite the fact that

el sindicat de llogaters

the tenants' union

va alertar

he/she alerted

de dir

to say

ei que aquí

hey, what's up here

hi ha una escletxa

there is a crack

el PSOE

the PSOE

s'hi va negar

he/she denied it

per tant

therefore

i ara Junts

and now Together

te diu

he/she tells you

que vota que no

that votes no

perquè no vol

because he/she doesn't want to

institucionalitzar

to institutionalize

aquesta

this

però jo insisteixo

but I insist

sí

yes

entre 2018

between 2018

i això

and this

en el seu dia

in its day

no ara

not now

en el seu dia

in its day

ho vam comptar

we counted it

i vam fer un vídeo

and we made a video

entre gener del 18

between January 18

i juny del 21

June 21

per tant

therefore

dos anys i mig

two and a half years

setze vegades

sixteen times

el PSOE

the PSOE

incompleix

breach

el pacte

the pact

que tenia

that had

amb els comuns

with the commons

i amb Esquerra Republicana

and with Esquerra Republicana

per regular els lloguers

to regulate the rents

jo no els vaig veure

I did not see them.

tan indignats

so outraged

de fet

in fact

formaven part del govern

they were part of the government

de fet

in fact

li aprovaven

they approved him/her

els pressupostos

the budgets

de fet

in fact

l'investia en president

he invested in president

llavors aquí

then here

hi ha una qüestió

there is a question

que

that

no vull deixar

I don't want to leave.

de parlar dels lloguers

to talk about rents

però al final

but in the end

hem de prendre

we have to take

una mica de distància

a little distance

i és

and it is

jo l'altre dia

the other day

sentia

felt

Míriam Nogueras

Miriam Nogueras

barallant-se

fighting

amb

with

amb una

with a

presentadora

presenter

no sé

I don't know.

de Telecinco

from Telecinco

i tal

and such

estaven parlant

they were talking

que Junts

that Together

també demana

also asks

les competències

the competencies

de migració

of migration

aquesta

this

presentadora

presenter

li deia

I was telling him/her.

ostres

oysters

però vostès

but you (plural)

són

they are

una mica

a little bit

racistes

racists

i xenòfobos

and xenophobes

i tal

and so on

i Míriam Nogueras

and Míriam Nogueras

explicava

was explaining

la seva postura

his/her position

i tal

and such

però

but

vaig pensar

I thought.

clar

clear

per què li deia

why I was telling him/her

que eren

what they were

xenòfobos

xenophobes

perquè demanaven

because they were asking

la competència

the competition

sobre aquest tema

about this topic

és una competència

it is a competition

que té l'estat espanyol

what the Spanish state has

és a dir

that is to say

són xenòfobs

they are xenophobic

l'estat espanyol

the Spanish state

és xenòfob

he is xenophobic

en la

in the

en la tanca de Melilla

at the fence of Melilla

que reben a la gent

that receive people

i li fan

and they do it to him/her

l'esmorzar

the breakfast

o què passa

or what happens

és a dir

that is to say

justament

just right

perquè l'emigració

because of immigration

perquè l'habitatge

because the housing

perquè tot plegat

because all of it

és un debat

it is a debate

molt profund

very deep

aquest

this

aquest cinisme

this cynicism

i aquest diguéssim

and this let's say

supremacisme

supremacism

és a dir

that is to say

jo puc fer

I can do.

jo puc

I can

encarregar-me

to commission me

jo puc

I can.

violar drets humans

violate human rights

però tu no te'n pots encarregar

but you can't take care of it

per exemple

for example

de qualsevol tema

of any topic

d'emigració

of emigration

m'explico

I'll explain myself.

és a dir

that is to say

és fins i tot

it is even

crec que té

I believe it has.

aquest punt

this point

de supremacisme

of supremacism

de dir

to say

tu políticament

you politically

no pots parlar d'això

you can't talk about this

i si parles

and if you speak

seràs

you will be

és com

it is like

tractar-te

to treat you

de menor d'edat

minor

dir

say

no, no

vosaltres no podeu

you cannot

és exactament això

It is exactly this.

tu no ets

you are not

tu no existeixes

you do not exist

l'estat o cuó

the state or quark

és com l'aire

it's like the air

és neutre

it is neutral

no es percep

it is not perceived

la valla de Melilla

the fence of Melilla

està allà

it is there

no, no

l'estat o cuó

the state or quark

és neutre

it is neutral

l'estat o cuó

the state or quark

existeix

it exists

l'estat o cuó

the state or quo

és una creació divina

it is a divine creation

i per tant

and therefore

no és criticable

it is not criticizable

l'estat o cuó

the state or queue

és l'estat natural

it is the natural state

de les coses

of the things

i al moment

and at the moment

que tu intentes

that you try

canviar l'estat o cuó

change the status or queue

ets el dimoni

you are the devil

això funciona

this works

en tot

in everything

vale

okay

però quan

but when

intenten

they attempt

o sigui

that is to say

estem escoltant

we are listening

gent d'esquerres

left-wing people

al final

in the end

el que estan fent

what they are doing

és blanquejant

it's whitening

el gran de Marlaska

the great Marlaska

que reprimeixi

that suppresses

i un estat

and a state

que genera morts

that generates deaths

a la valla

to the fence

a la tanca de Melilla

at the Melilla fence

vull dir

I mean

el problema

the problem

de tot pagat

everything paid

és que jo

it's that I

penso

I think

que

that

que fa molt de temps

a long time ago

que hem perdut

that we have lost

la radicalitat

the radicality

i el

and the

el tema aquest

this topic

del debat

of the debate

que hi ha hagut

that there has been

el tema de la regulació

the issue of regulation

dels lloguers

of the rents

i tot això

and all this

li trob una

I found her.

sorprenent

surprising

i preocupant

and worrying

manca de radicalitat

lack of radicality

perquè la radicalitat

for the radicality

que vol dir

what does it mean

anar a l'arrel

go to the root

de les coses

of the things

tu parlar

you talk

del problema

of the problem

de l'habitatge

of the housing

sense parlar

without speaking

del problema

of the problem

del turisme

of tourism

sense parlar

without speaking

dels moviments

of the movements

poblacionals

population-related

sense parlar

without speaking

de les transformacions

of the transformations

digitals

digital

sense parlar

without speaking

de tot plegat

of all this

sense parlar

without speaking

de model econòmic

of economic model

de la desindustrialització

of the deindustrialization

de desindustrialització

of deindustrialization

de tot

of everything

de l'habitatge públic

of public housing

sense parlar de tot

without talking about everything

és a dir

that is to say

regular l'habitatge

regulate housing

regular els lloguers

regulate the rents

és regular

it's regular

l'oferta

the offer

de determinats

of certain

propietaris

owners

etc, etc

però

but

i la demanda

and the demand

el problema

the problem

que jo crec

that I believe

que és molt gran

that is very big

és de demanda

it is in demand

que és

what is it

el que dèiem abans

what we were saying before

que aquí ve gent

here come people

amb tants diners

with so much money

que no tenen

that they do not have

que ho pot comprar tot

that can buy everything

però pot comprar

but can buy

el que sigui

whatever it is

si la llei diu

if the law says

que blanc

how white

comprarà blanc

he/she will buy white

si la llei diu

if the law says

que blanc està prohibit

that white is prohibited

comprarà negre

He will buy black.

si negre està prohibit

if black is prohibited

comprarà lila

she will buy the lilac

i si lila està prohibit

And if purple is forbidden

comprarà color de rosa

will buy pink color

perquè els diners

because of the money

ho poden tot

they can do everything

en un país

in a country

en una societat

in a society

com la nostra

like ours

que no té

that does not have

sobirania

sovereignty

i que no té

and that does not have

un model de país

a model of country

implantat

implant

això ho hem vist

we have seen this

a la meva terra

to my land

d'Eivissa

of Ibiza

d'alguna manera

somehow

hem viscut

we have lived

tots els problemes

all the problems

que té Barcelona

what Barcelona has

10 o 15 anys abans

10 or 15 years earlier

a Eivissa

to Ibiza

ara mateix

right now

la gent

the people

viu en caravanes

lives in caravans

i en furgonetes

and in vans

pels postos

for the positions

no és ja

it is not already

que se'n vagin

let them go

de Barcelona

from Barcelona

a barris més perifèrics

to more peripheral neighborhoods

perquè hi poden pagar

because they can pay for it

un lloguer

a rent

no, no

és que allà

it's that there

com que

as that

hi ha els límits

there are the limits

que té l'illa

what the island has

s'acaba la mà

the hand is ending

la gent

the people

està vivint

is living

en campaments

in camps

de furgonetes

of vans

i caravanes

and caravans

fins i tot

even

professors

teachers

que no tenen

that they do not have

i aquí

and here

és cap on va Barcelona

which way to Barcelona

també

also

vull dir

I mean

fa dècades

decades ago

que Barcelona

that Barcelona

arriba al mateix lloc

arrives at the same place

que estan arribant

that are arriving

llocs com Eivissa

places like Ibiza

uns anys després

a few years later

està passant

is happening

exactament el mateix

exactly the same

amb un ritme més lent

at a slower pace

jo també volia posar

I also wanted to add.

una cosa

one thing

perquè aquí

because here

també es fa molta demagògia

there is also a lot of demagoguery

es pot relacionar

it can be related

amb el tema

with the subject

poblacional

population-based

de tot això

of all this

passen coses

things happen

molt

very

molt curioses

very curious

i avui

and today

ho comentava

I was mentioning it.

la feina

the work

a Santa Coloma

to Santa Coloma

Santa Coloma

Saint Coloma

a Gramenet

to Gramenet

els pisos

the apartments

són baratíssims

they are very cheap

si tu vols

if you want

comprar-te un pis

buying you a flat

avui

today

vés-te a Santa Coloma

go to Santa Coloma

a Gramenet

to Gramenet

si no pots

if you can't

pagar-te un pis

pay you for an apartment

a Barcelona

to Barcelona

vés-te a Santa Coloma

go to Santa Coloma

a Gramenet

to Gramenet

pots estar

you can be

al costat

next to

de la línia

of the line

vermella

red

de metro

by subway

a 25 minuts

in 25 minutes

de plaça

of square

Catalunya

Catalonia

avui ho he mirat

I looked at it today.

a Santa Coloma

to Santa Coloma

a Gramenet

to Gramenet

ara mateix

right now

en un portal

in a portal

immobiliari

real estate

hi ha més

there is more

de 200 pisos

of 200 apartments

per sota

below

de 100.000 euros

of 100,000 euros

de preu

of price

100.000?

100,000?

100.000

100,000

sí

yes

més de 200 pisos

more than 200 apartments

a Barcelona

to Barcelona

no dubto

I do not doubt.

que hi hagi cap

that there is any

a Barcelona

to Barcelona

no hi ha cap

there is none

però Santa Coloma

but Santa Coloma

a Gramenet

to Gramenet

avui ho he mirat

I looked at it today.

aquest matí

this morning

ho he mirat

I have looked at it.

amb un company

with a companion

de feina

of work

hi ha una oferta

there is an offer

més de 200 pisos

more than 200 apartments

per sota

below

de 100.000 euros

of 100,000 euros

que allò

that thing

no és atractiu

it is not attractive

pel model especulatiu

for the speculative model

Santa Coloma

Saint Coloma

no és un barri atractiu

it is not an attractive neighborhood

no és una zona

it is not an area

no és un municipi atractiu

it is not an attractive municipality

pel model especulatiu

for the speculative model

aquest que tenim

this that we have

perquè

because

la gent

the people

que aboca diners

that pours money

per rebentar

to blow up

el mercat de l'habitatge

the housing market

a Barcelona

to Barcelona

allà no hi ha arribat

there has not arrived there

però pot arribar

but it can arrive

pot arribar

can arrive

quan la gent d'aquí

when the people from here

comenci a comprar

start buying

a Santa Coloma

to Santa Coloma

poden donar

they can give

vull dir

I mean.

ara també hi ha una cosa

now there is also something

que també fa

that also does

dona molt a pensar

gives a lot to think about

pisos de lloguer

rental apartments

no n'hi ha a Santa Coloma

there aren't any in Santa Coloma

pràcticament

practically

és a dir

that is to say

són desenes

they are dozens

els que hi ha

those that are there

ara

now

I avui no ho he mirat això

And today I haven't looked at this.

però alguna vegada

but sometimes

ho he mirat

I have looked at it.

i podies trobar

and you could find

com que hi havia

as there was

10 o 20 vegades

10 or 20 times

més pisos a la venda

more apartments for sale

que de lloguer

that for rent

perquè el mercat

because the market

està absolutament col·lapsat

is absolutely collapsed

i tot això

and all this

amb propaganda

with propaganda

que és el que fan els comuns

What do the commons do?

amb oportunisme

with opportunism

que és el que fa el PSOE

What is it that the PSOE does?

i amb

and with

fer el pena

to play the fool

que fan els independentistes

What do the independents do?

no s'ha solucionat

it has not been resolved

i a la CUP

and to the CUP

que li han donat suport

that they have given him support

a la CUP

to the CUP

a Barcelona

to Barcelona

tot el món

the whole world

des de Vox

from Vox

fins a Junts

until Together

fins a Esquerra

up to the Left

fins al PSC

up to the PSC

és a dir

that is to say

és que ningú està dient

it's just that no one is saying

que a Barcelona

that in Barcelona

s'obren turistes

tourists are opening up

que hi ha massa turistes

that there are too many tourists

a Barcelona

to Barcelona

bueno ara ho comencen

well now they are starting it

ho comencen

they start it

ho diuen els radicals

the radicals say so

de la CUP

from the CUP

CUP i gent molt...

CUP and very many people...

Dir que s'obren turistes és una cosa

To say that tourists are opening up is one thing.

extremista, encara es veu

extremist, one still sees it

com una cosa extremista.

like an extremist thing.

Turismofòbia i tot això, no?

Tourismophobia and all that, right?

Jo crec que la ciutadania sí que ho diu.

I believe that the citizens do say so.

Sí, però a l'establishment

Yes, but to the establishment.

polític, és a dir,

political, that is to say,

cap partit amb opcions de govern,

no party with governing options,

cap partit amb

no party with

aspiracions de majories

aspirations of majorities

no parla, clar, i diu que

does not speak clearly, and says that

és absolutament insostenible

it is absolutely unsustainable

aquesta quantitat de turisme. Jo crec que la part positiva

this amount of tourism. I believe that the positive part

de la Copa Amèrica és que

of the America’s Cup is that

ha posat sobre la taula,

has put on the table,

vull dir que han tibat

I mean they have pulled.

massa la corda

too tight the rope

i gent que potser

and people who might

comprava aquest relat,

I bought this story,

no, la turismofòbia, comença

No, tourismophobia begins.

a ser prou evident, crec que jo.

To be quite evident, I believe.

Jo ara mateix, quan estava esperant

I right now, when I was waiting

entrar aquí,

enter here,

en un pis, en un bloc

in an apartment, in a building

de dos carrers més enllà,

two streets beyond,

vull dir, baixaven

I mean, they were going down.

amb les seves maletes... Som el poble nou

with their suitcases... We are the new town

per aquest situació. Baixaven amb les seves maletes

for this situation. They were coming down with their suitcases.

gent que crec que ocuparia

people who I think would occupy

tot el bloc. Aquest bloc

the whole block. This block

segurament fa deu anys estava

probably ten years ago I was

habitat

per gent que vivia

for people who lived

aquí, que tenia fills, que es portava a col·le

here, that had children, that was taken to school

i és probable

and it is probable

que si fos gent que també parlava català

that if there were people who also spoke Catalan

aquella gent probablement no saben

that people probably don't know

que Catalunya existeix, acaben

that Catalonia exists, they end

de baixar d'un avió i, per tant,

after getting off a plane and, therefore,

ho dic perquè

I say it because

unir les lluites

unite the struggles

a la part

on the side

de crisi social que genera

of social crisis that generates

el problema de l'accés a l'habitatge

the problem of access to housing

però també la crisi

but also the crisis

nacional en el sentit

national in the sense

que si la gent que viu en un país

that if the people who live in a country

no pot fer un projecte de vida,

cannot make a life project,

de tenir fills,

of having children,

de casar-se, d'independitzar-se

of getting married, of becoming independent

dels pares... És a dir,

of the parents... That is,

de quin país estem parlant?

Which country are we talking about?

Si hi ha alguna cosa tan natural

If there is something so natural

que és, diguéssim, la força

what is, let's say, the force

motriu de dir

motive to say

anem a fer coses.

let's go do things.

Si això no ho pots fer perquè

If you can't do this, why?

no hi ha les condicions,

the conditions are not there,

les condicions materials, al final

the material conditions, in the end

et quedes sense país. És el país el que no pot.

You are left without a country. It is the country that cannot.

I això també és una cosa que

And this is also something that

és veritat,

it is true,

la qüestió del rendisme

the issue of rentism

és molt àmplia i complexa.

It is very wide and complex.

Ara,

Now,

també

also

la capacitat de desenvolupar-se

the ability to develop oneself

en un país econòmicament,

in an economically

que el gran

that the great

succionador de recursos sigui

resource sucker be

les rendes per

the reins for

viure, per pagar un sostre,

to live, to pay for a roof,

això detreu,

this detracts,

molts recursos d'altres coses

many resources from other things

que es podrien fer com a país.

what could be done as a country.

A mi tant.

Me too.

Si la gent s'ha de gastar gairebé

If people have to spend almost

tot el que té per poder proveir-se

everything he has to be able to supply himself

d'un sostre, deixa de fer altres coses.

from a ceiling, stops doing other things.

Deixa de poder estudiar,

Stop being able to study,

deixa de poder investigar,

stop being able to investigate,

deixa de poder fer moltíssimes coses que...

"stop being able to do a lot of things that..."

Han eliminat...

They have eliminated...

És que ara

It's just that now

m'ha vengut el dubte, perquè s'ha dit

The doubt has come to me, because it has been said.

moltes vegades, s'ha qüestionat, però no sé si s'ha arribat

Many times, it has been questioned, but I don't know if it has been reached.

a fer, perquè seria una altra

to do, because it would be another

de les coses que el PSOE també

of the things that the PSOE also

s'hauria de fer mirar, i tots els partits

It should be looked into, and all the parties.

que li donen suport. El

that support him. The

visat d'or s'ha eliminat ja o no?

Has the gold visa been eliminated already or not?

S'està... Encara està vigent, no?

It's still... It's still in force, right?

Sembla que ja... Diuen que, diuen, diuen,

It seems that already... They say that, they say, they say,

diuen que el volen eliminar fa molt de temps, però encara

they say they have wanted to eliminate it for a long time, but still

està vigent, no? Perquè clar, si tu

It is valid, right? Because of course, if you

el que fas és regalar visats

What you are doing is giving out visas.

a la gent que ve

to the people who come

a especular

to speculate

amb l'habitatge,

with housing,

després has de fer lleis tu per, no sé què,

then you have to make laws for, I don't know what,

per protegir els llocaters i tal.

to protect the placeholders and such.

El que ho dinamita

The one who blows it up.

tot, és que

everything, it's just that

pugui arribar qualsevol

anyone can arrive

amb una bitlletera i quedar-s'ho

with a wallet and keep it

tot.

everything.

A moltes zones del país

In many areas of the country

i a llocs petits com

and in small places like

a Eivissa que abans citava, es nota

to Ibiza that I mentioned earlier, it shows

molt més, que

much more than

quan arriba la gent amb diners

when the people with money arrive

i ho compra tot, això

and it buys everything, this

es nota o no, per veritat?

Is it noticeable or not, really?

Acabes rebentant

You just exploded.

el mercat, acabes rebentant la societat,

the market, you end up bursting society,

l'economia, perquè

the economy, because

a...

tens aquesta capacitat, no? És a dir,

you have this ability, right? That is,

acabes fent de

you end up being

béns bàsics, béns de mercat.

basic goods, market goods.

Bueno, clar, aquí

Well, of course, here.

estaríem... Però, per exemple,

we would be... But, for example,

amb les terres de cultiu,

with the cultivated lands,

amb les terres de cultiu a l'Àfrica,

with the arable land in Africa,

que moltes són

that many are

comprades per empreses

purchases by companies

occidentals, diguéssim,

westerns, let's say,

compren terres de cultiu

they buy cultivated land

fèrtils per produir i

fertile for producing and

emportar-se a les produccions per alimentar

to take the productions to feed

la gent, això passa constantment.

People, this happens constantly.

Està passant que fons d'inversió estan

It is happening that investment funds are

comprant finques agrícoles.

buying agricultural estates.

Els nostres joves estan abandonant

Our young people are leaving.

les finques agrícoles i fons especulatius

agricultural properties and speculative funds

estan comprant terres agrícoles. Això està passant

They are buying agricultural land. This is happening.

també. Això és sobirania.

also. This is sovereignty.

Perdo de sobirania i això

Loss of sovereignty and that

és la llavor

it is the seed

dels problemes que

of the problems that

tindrem en el futur.

we will have in the future.

Però ara a ningú li preocupa.

But now no one cares.

Queden quatre minuts, podríem parlar de moltes

There are four minutes left, we could talk about many things.

més coses, però no volia tancar la tertúlia

more things, but I didn't want to close the discussion

sense parlar d'una de les denúncies

without talking about one of the complaints

que s'ha fet més viral aquesta

that has gone more viral this

setmana, que ha sigut la que ha fet el sindicat

week, which has been the one that the union has made

de Mantés. Va fer un fil a Twitter

of Mantés. He made a thread on Twitter.

on explicava molt clarament l'odissea

he explained the odyssey very clearly

que és

what is it

apuntar-se a un curs de català

del Consorci de Normalització

from the Normalization Consortium

Lingüística. Enfermaven que és

Linguistics. They were sick that it is

més complicat inscriure's al català

more complicated to register in Catalan

que aconseguir entrades

to obtain tickets

per anar a veure un concert d'oasis.

to go see an Oasis concert.

A Vilaweb vam poder parlar

At Vilaweb we were able to talk.

amb Assis Faller, portaveu

with Assis Faller, spokesperson

del sindicat de Mantés de Barcelona

of the Maintenance Union of Barcelona

i ens deia això.

and he told us this.

Tu, pel meu color de pell,

You, for my skin color,

penses que no hauria de saber català, doncs

do you think I shouldn't know Catalan, then?

no anem bé. Quan una persona nouvinguda

we're not doing well. When a newcomer

acaba d'arribar, necessita

just arrived, needs

aquesta acollidora, aquesta

this cozy one, this

benvinguda que el seu entorn

welcome that your environment

li pugui donar, perquè si no, què

I can give him/her, because if not, what?

passa? Que al final, si hi ha aquest

Happens? That in the end, if there is this

rebut cap a la persona migrant,

received towards the migrant person,

què fa la persona migrant? Crear el seu

What does the migrant person do? Create their own.

entorn, crear el seu gueto

environment, create its ghetto

amb les pròpies persones parlant

with the people themselves speaking

el mateix idioma, mai accederà

the same language, will never be accessible

a aquest idioma.

to this language.

Per tant, requereix

Therefore, it requires

que s'impinya i que entre tots

let it be pushed and let us all come together

busquem de millorar

we seek to improve

això, aquest tema. Aquests discursos

this, this topic. These speeches

que diuen que els immigrants

that they say that immigrants

no tenen ganes

they are not in the mood

d'aprendre l'idioma, no tenen ganes

of learning the language, they are not motivated

de treballar i resulta que tampoc hi ha recursos

to work and it turns out that there are also no resources

per facilitar-nos aquestes

to facilitate these for us

coses.

things.

Deia, si la gent

I said, if people

pensa que pel meu color de pell no hauria de

"Think that because of my skin color I shouldn't..."

saber català, anem malament.

Knowing Catalan, we're in trouble.

Realment, això continua passant

Really, this is still happening.

moltíssim, per desgràcia,

very much, unfortunately,

parlant en castellà,

speaking in Spanish,

perdó, m'he inclòs i no em volia incloure,

sorry, I included myself and I didn't mean to include myself,

continuem, sí, com a societat,

we continue, yes, as a society,

continuem parlant moltíssim en castellà

we continue to speak a lot in Spanish

a gent pel seu color de pell i això

people for their skin color and that

ha de canviar. Tu te'n recordes

It has to change. Do you remember?

la que li van muntar

the one they set up for him/her

a qui era? A una

Who was it? To a one.

consellera, que va

councillor, what is going on

fer aquesta reflexió al Parlament,

make this reflection in Parliament,

de dir, escolta'm, no li canviem de llengua

to say, listen to me, let's not change the language

a una persona

to a person

per la seva fisonomia. Anaer.

for her physiognomy. Anaer.

Era Anaer? Sí, era Anaer,

Was it Anaer? Yes, it was Anaer.

l'expresident del Parlament. O sigui,

the former president of the Parliament. That is,

independentment

independently

de com ho hagi

as it may be

expressat en concret,

expressed in concrete,

la que li va caure

the one that fell on him/her

per dir,

to say,

per descriure una situació,

to describe a situation,

també és veritat que

it is also true that

carregar-nos a nosaltres mateixos,

load ourselves,

és veritat que tots, com a catalanoparlants,

It is true that we all, as Catalan speakers,

hem de fer la reflexió col·lectiva

we have to make the collective reflection

de dir, escolta'm, això de parlar-li

to say, listen to me, this about talking to him/her

a la gent l'un i l'altre

to the people, one and the other

segons com ens sembli que són,

depending on how we perceive them to be,

això, el català

this, Catalan

com a llengua no s'ho pot permetre,

as a language it cannot afford it,

però també

but also

em sembla interessant d'aquesta

I find this interesting.

proposta o d'aquesta

proposal or of this

denúncia el fet que

denounces the fact that

no ha de caure sempre

it doesn't always have to fall

en els individus i en els

in individuals and in the

catalanoparlants

Catalan speakers

només en ells

only in them

la missió de salvar el català.

the mission to save Catalan.

De fet, hi ha una sèrie d'estructures

In fact, there are a series of structures.

que, per cert, l'independentisme

that, by the way, independence

quan ha controlat la Generalitat

when has the Generalitat controlled

tampoc les ha acabat de fer servir

neither has she finished using them.

i aquest és un gran problema, que ens podem

and this is a big problem, that we can

trobar que li fem la campanya

to find that we do the campaign for him/her

a Salvador Illa i que li deixem

to Salvador Illa and that we leave it to him

molt fàcil

very easy

ser millor fins i tot

to be better even

que els partits independentistes quan han governat

that the independentist parties when they have governed

en relació al català.

in relation to Catalan.

Sí, perquè si avui no hi ha cursos de normalització lingüística

Yes, because if today there are no language normalization courses.

el Consorci de la Normalització Lingüística

the Consortium for Linguistic Normalization

no és per Illa.

it's not for Illa.

I si no hi ha una consciència

And if there is no consciousness

i un discurs

and a speech

molt clar a favor

very clear in favor

del català, un discurs que s'hagi

from Catalan, a speech that has been

creat i construït col·lectivament, quan fa

created and collectively built, when does it take place

que governen partits independentistes

that are governed by independentist parties

la Generalitat?

the Generalitat?

I que fa molts anys que aquest problema

And this problem has been around for many years.

continua.

continue.

No és el primer any

It's not the first year.

que hi ha problemes.

that there are problems.

Es van acabar les places en un dia

The spots were gone in a day.

només hi havia dos dies

there were only two days

per apuntar-se, però és que el segon dia

to sign up, but it's just that the second day

ja ningú trobava places.

no one was finding parking spots anymore.

Aquell mateix dia

That very day

gent que va estar fent cua durant hores

people who were waiting in line for hours

quan va arribar el moment d'apuntar-se

when the time came to sign up

ja no quedaven places.

there were no places left.

I l'altra queixa és sempre també

And the other complaint is always also

que hi ha aquests cursos

that there are these courses

i si es té en compte que aquesta gent també treballa

And if it is taken into account that these people also work.

per tant s'ha de tenir en compte

therefore it must be taken into account

que potser s'han de fer a unes altres hores.

that perhaps they should be done at other times.

És que tot plegat

It's just that all in all

s'aplicaria a moltes coses, però

it would apply to many things, but

sembla ser que ens costi

it seems that it is hard for us

tractar la complexitat de les coses

dealing with the complexity of things

i veure que

and see that

amb això, amb l'habitatge,

with that, with housing,

amb mil elements de debat

with a thousand elements of debate

hi ha dos cares de la moneda

there are two sides to the coin

hi ha la cara de l'oferta

there is the face of the offer

hi ha la cara de la demanda

there is the face of the demand

Fa uns dies es comentava

A few days ago it was discussed.

que bé que li havia anat a Andorra

how well it had gone for him in Andorra

que quan havia posat el requisit

that when I had set the requirement

de saber català pels treballadors

of knowing Catalan for workers

per tenir premis de treball i tal

to have work permits and such

es havia disparat la demanda de cursos de català

the demand for Catalan courses had skyrocketed

al Principat

in the Principality

i després uns dies d'aquí sabem

And then a few days from here we know.

que aquí

that here

no es pot disparar la demanda de cursos de català

the demand for Catalan courses cannot be increased

perquè no hi ha oferta

because there is no offer

és que no tenim capacitat

it's that we don't have the capacity

i segurament mirant una mica enrere

and probably looking back a bit

trobaríem elements de preocupació

we would find elements of concern

de fa molt de temps

a long time ago

que no sé

that I don't know

si algú pensa

if someone thinks

que té alguna solució

that has some solution

jo ara no tinc solucions màgiques

I don't have magical solutions right now.

però sí que veig moltes vegades problemes

but I do see problems many times

que s'intueixen

that are hinted at

que ens porten pel mal camí

that leads us down the wrong path

les facultats de Filologia Catalana

the faculties of Catalan Philology

estan buides

they are empty

les facultats de Filologia Catalana

the faculties of Catalan Philology

tenen places vacants

they have vacant positions

hi ha gent

there are people

que s'està jubilant

that is retiring

professors de català

Catalan teachers

i no hi ha relleu generacional

and there is no generational relief

correcte

correct

un dia podem fer un debat monogràfic

One day we can have a monographic debate.

sobre el català

about Catalan

i la situació del català

and the situation of Catalan

i convidem a...

and invite you to...

no, no, és igual

no, no, it's fine.

em sap greu perquè ho hem de deixar aquí

I'm sorry because we have to leave it here.

perquè ja ens hem passat dos minuts

because we have already taken two minutes

de l'hora

of the hour

he de dir que hi ha gent que està dient ara

I have to say that there are people who are saying now.

la Carmen Toroa diu

Carmen Toro says

hola no hi penso que és en directe

Hello, I don't think it's live.

tranquil·la Carmen

calm Carmen

al principi

at the beginning

i no hi haurà cap problema

and there will be no problem

aquí quedarà gravat per sempre

here it will be recorded forever

aquesta hora que acabem de fer

this hour that we have just done

ostres, no ho diguis així

Wow, don't say it like that.

que ara penso, ostres de veritat

that now I think, wow really

quedarà gravat per sempre

it will be engraved forever

però és molta responsabilitat

but it's a lot of responsibility

ens podran revisar totes les barbaritats que hem dit

they will be able to review all the nonsense we have said

doncs em sap greu, per sempre

so I’m sorry, forever

i això, ens veiem la setmana que ve

And that, see you next week.

Fins demà!

Until tomorrow!

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