El Tribunal #15 | Fenomenologia de Maradona, 1 any després de la seva mort | amb Daniel Gamper
Diari El Tribú
El Tribunal
El Tribunal #15 | Fenomenologia de Maradona, 1 any després de la seva mort | amb Daniel Gamper
Si Kamala diu que l'economia s'ha reconegut,
If Kamala says that the economy has been acknowledged,
ella és o mentida o delusional.
She is either lying or delusional.
De qualsevol manera, ella ens deixa enrere.
In any case, she leaves us behind.
Rejecta Kamala.
Reject Kamala.
Pagada per Duty to America PAC.
Paid by Duty to America PAC.
No autoritzada per cap candidat o comitè de candidats.
Not authorized by any candidate or candidate committee.
Dutytoamericapac.com
Dutytoamericapac.com
Per nosaltres era fantàstic.
For us, it was fantastic.
Tot això només ho puc explicar com un nen.
I can only explain all of this like a child.
Jo ho vaig viure amb la cosa magnífica
I experienced it with the magnificent thing.
que ens podia passar que algú
that could happen to us that someone
amb aquelles pintes tan extraordinàries...
with those extraordinary hairstyles...
Perquè és molt fotogènic, Maradona.
Because he is very photogenic, Maradona.
És un element bàsic de la creació de la icona.
It is a basic element in the creation of the icon.
És el fet que el paio és molt fotogènic.
It's the fact that the guy is very photogenic.
I que aquell individu amb el pelusa,
And that individual with the fluff,
que li deien la sonoritat del nom,
that they called the sonority of the name,
Diego Armando Maradona.
Diego Armando Maradona.
És pràcticament...
It is practically...
Són aquelles coses que dius, com pot ser que ja tingués...
They are those things that you say, how could I have already had...
Hi ha alguna cosa en aquest nom.
There is something in this name.
Tot plegat, per mi va ser...
All in all, for me it was...
Maradona, jo el vaig viure com una cosa fantàstica
Maradona, I experienced him as something fantastic.
que ens passava que el Barça fitxava el millor del món
What was happening to us that Barça was signing the best in the world?
perquè tothom ja començava a parlar en aquests termes.
because everyone was already starting to talk in these terms.
Des del punt de vista econòmic ja va ser una xifra
From an economic point of view, it was already a figure.
que a mi com a nen, òbviament,
that for me as a child, obviously,
em semblava simplement molt gran
it seemed simply very big to me
i que segueix sent...
and that continues to be...
Avui en dia són 6 milions,
Today there are 6 million.
més d'euros, aproximadament,
more euros, approximately,
però en aquell moment era un fitxatge molt important.
but at that moment it was a very important signing.
I el vam rebre...
And we received him...
Clar, i aquí és on...
Of course, and here is where...
Jo en aquesta fenomenologia de Maradona,
In this phenomenology of Maradona,
que és el llibre aquest del qual estem parlant,
what is this book we are talking about,
per cert, a Editorial Altamarea,
by the way, to Editorial Altamarea,
per si algú decideix comprar-lo...
just in case someone decides to buy it...
Em semblava que fessis tu la falca, diríem,
I thought you were the one making the pitch, we would say.
perquè així era més natural.
because it was more natural that way.
Sí, exacte.
Yes, exactly.
Doncs, clar, jo el fenomen només el puc explicar en primera persona
Well, of course, I can only explain the phenomenon in the first person.
i després, òbviament, l'he anat seguint.
And then, obviously, I have been following him/her.
I l'he viscut molt a Nàpols, on encara és viu.
And I have lived it a lot in Naples, where he is still alive.
Aquí Maradona no és viu.
Here Maradona is not alive.
De fet, va morir i es va voler reivindicar
In fact, he died and wanted to reclaim himself.
com una figura del Barça.
like a figure of Barça.
Però, doncs, aquí no va triomfar.
But then, it didn't succeed here.
I no va triomfar per molts factors
And it did not succeed for many factors.
que és el que també m'interessa
what is also of interest to me
i que intento explicar una mica aquí, no?
And I'm trying to explain a little bit here, right?
En el llibre aquest, on hi ha l'experiència infantil
In this book, where there is childhood experience.
i hi ha l'experiència, doncs, més de com l'he anat seguint
And there is the experience, then, more of how I have been following it.
i com he vist, o sigui,
and as I have seen, I mean,
i la inevitabilitat que n'és a Nàpols
and the inevitability that it is in Naples
per tancar la història.
to close the story.
O sigui, per crear la història.
So, to create the story.
Crec que sense anar a Nàpols
I think that without going to Naples
difícilment el mite seria tan gran com és.
hardly the myth would be as great as it is.
Si només hagués guanyat el Mundial...
If only I had won the World Cup...
Però quin altre equip podria fer això?
But what other team could do this?
On hagués trobat un encaix
I would have found a match.
entre dintre el camp i fora el camp.
between inside the field and outside the field.
Això d'anar a Nàpols, o sigui...
Going to Naples, I mean...
Bueno, primer, aquí a Barcelona per què no va triomfar?
Well, first, why didn't it succeed here in Barcelona?
O sigui, hi va haver la lesió del test, hi va haver una malaltia...
In other words, there was an injury to the testicle, there was an illness...
Sí, hi va haver molts factors, molts.
Yes, there were many factors, many.
Molts factors.
Many factors.
I podríem destacar, el primer que podríem destacar
And we could highlight, the first thing we could highlight
és el fet purament futbolístic.
It is purely a footballing matter.
Futbolísticament són els dos anys que guanya
Football-wise, it's the two years he wins.
la Lliga el Bilbao.
the League of Bilbao.
Que ja sé que s'ha de dir atlètic, però jo dic el Bilbao
I know it should be called athletic, but I call it Bilbao.
precisament per la rancúnia, d'alguna manera,
precisely because of the resentment, in a way,
que queda d'aquells anys
what remains of those years
on un futbol tremendo
with tremendous football
guanya la Lliga.
wins the League.
És l'equip que crec que marca menys gols,
It's the team that I think scores the least goals.
és la Lliga dels últims 50 anys
it is the League of the last 50 years
amb menys gols marcats per l'equip que la guanya.
with fewer goals scored by the team that wins.
Perquè això estava dirigit per un tal Començament,
Because this was directed by someone named Beginning,
estava dirigit per un tal Clemente,
it was directed by a certain Clemente,
que després, juntament amb l'anomenat Carnicer de Bilbao,
that later, together with the so-called Butcher of Bilbao,
van formar la dobleta d'entrenadors de la selecció espanyola
they formed the coaching duo of the Spanish national team
durant molts anys en algun Mundial.
for many years in some World Cup.
O sigui que no era estrany que no guanyés Espanya res
So it was not surprising that Spain did not win anything.
amb aquesta nena de...
with this girl from...
Era un futbol de bèsties, no?
It was a beastly kind of football, wasn't it?
Era un futbol molt bèstia.
It was a very brutal football.
Jo crec que s'ha de mirar.
I believe it should be looked at.
I aquest paio, Maradona,
And this guy, Maradona,
s'ha de reconèixer que si et poses un vídeo d'ell,
it must be acknowledged that if you watch a video of him,
el vídeo de la final, el seu últim partit amb el Barça,
the video of the final, his last match with Barça,
la final del Bernabéu, la que acaba amb les patades,
the final at the Bernabéu, the one that ends with the kicks,
que és l'única vegada que jo he estat al Bernabéu en la meva vida,
that is the only time I have been to the Bernabéu in my life,
que tinc un record espantós,
that I have a terrible memory,
espantós perquè va ser horrorós.
terrifying because it was horrific.
Va ser realment espantós.
It was really scary.
I si mires simplement el futbol,
And if you simply watch football,
veus aquest individu que li fan unes entrades però criminals
Do you see this individual who is being given some but criminal tickets?
i que cada vegada s'aixeca com un valent.
And that each time he/she gets up like a brave one.
Això també.
This too.
Maradona era un tio molt valent.
Maradona was a very brave guy.
A més a més, aquell era el futbol d'aquella època.
Moreover, that was the football of that time.
El que passa és que ell mateix ho diu a la seva autobiografia,
What happens is that he himself says it in his autobiography,
que la recomano molt perquè és molt entretinguda de llegir.
I highly recommend it because it is very entertaining to read.
Jo soc el Diego.
I am Diego.
Ell mateix qualifica el període de Barcelona com la frustració,
He himself describes the Barcelona period as frustration.
la frustració,
the frustration,
i després hi ha el capítol de Nàpols,
and then there's the chapter of Naples,
que és una mena de ressurrecció,
that is a kind of resurrection,
i després hi ha la glòria, que és el Mundial.
And then there is glory, which is the World Cup.
Però...
But...
Però aleshores se'n va frustrat de no haver pogut jugar ni guanyar.
But then he leaves frustrated for not having been able to play or win.
Sí, a més a més la relació amb Núñez és tremenda.
Yes, moreover the relationship with Núñez is tremendous.
Ella a l'autobiografia ho diu.
She says it in the autobiography.
El que no m'esperava era trobar-me un tarado com Núñez.
What I didn't expect was to meet a jerk like Núñez.
Que el presidente fuera un tarado como Núñez.
That the president was an idiot like Núñez.
O sigui, tarado.
I mean, you idiot.
Així l'anomena.
Thus he/she names it.
I clar, diguem,
And of course, let's say,
Maradona és l'anti-tribunero.
Maradona is the anti-tribune.
Que em sembla molt important deixar-ho clar
I think it's very important to make it clear.
en una entrevista per un lloc que es diu el Tribú.
in an interview for a place called the Tribu.
No era el nostre estil.
It was not our style.
I jo, en aquest sentit,
And I, in this regard,
reivindico el Barça no-tribunero.
I reivindicate the non-tribune Barça.
És a dir, un Barça...
That is to say, a Barça...
Què vol dir no-tribunero en aquest sentit?
What does non-tribunero mean in this sense?
Un Barça que hagués escoltat a Maradona.
A Barça that would have listened to Maradona.
Però per això calia un altre ambient social.
But for that, another social environment was needed.
Calia tot un altre biotop.
It needed a whole different biotope.
En el qual pogués sorgir la genialitat de Maradona.
In which the genius of Maradona could emerge.
Que seria el de Nàpols.
That would be the one from Naples.
És a dir, aquí el president era un desastre.
That is to say, here the president was a disaster.
Per ell.
For him.
Per Maradona.
For Maradona.
Diu que no es van arribar.
He says they did not arrive.
No es van arribar a entendre en cap moment.
They did not manage to understand each other at any moment.
Arriba, d'una altra banda,
Arrives, from another side,
hi ha un entrenador alemany,
there is a German coach,
que és Udo Lattek.
who is Udo Lattek.
Que havia vingut una mica perquè estava a Schuster, també.
That I had come a little because I was at Schuster, too.
Futbol alemany.
German football.
I de sobte arriba Maradona.
And suddenly Maradona arrives.
Lattek dona bastant poc.
Lattek gives very little.
Diu que...
He says that...
Maradona mateix ho diu.
Maradona himself says it.
L'única cosa bona que va fer Núñez va ser fer fora Lattek.
The only good thing Núñez did was to get rid of Lattek.
Diu, jo lo respeté mientras pude.
He says, I respected him as long as I could.
Després ja no el va poder respectar més.
After that, he could no longer respect him.
Va portar a Menotti.
He brought Menotti.
Menotti posa l'entrenament a la tarda.
Menotti schedules the training for the afternoon.
De manera que Maradona pot sortir.
So Maradona can leave.
Veu sortir el sol.
I see the sun rising.
En la forma de Menotti.
In the style of Menotti.
En la forma que cada matí ell es pot llevar més o menys quan vulgui.
In the way that every morning he can get up more or less whenever he wants.
Perquè arriba, és un noi molt jove.
Because he is coming, he is a very young guy.
Molt jove.
Very young.
Amb un cor...
With a heart...
Jo crec que un tio que té un cor molt gran.
I believe that a guy who has a very big heart.
O sigui, és algú que ve del poble.
So, it is someone who comes from the village.
Però ve de la villa...
But he comes from the town...
De les Villes Miseries.
Of the Miserable Cities.
De Villafiorito.
From Villafiorito.
I allà, doncs, en el mateix...
And there, then, in the same...
Nosaltres tenim aquí un text de Signorini.
We have a text by Signorini here.
L'altre dia llegia una entrevista amb Signorini.
The other day I was reading an interview with Signorini.
Que és una de les persones que més ha conegut a Maradona.
That is one of the people who knew Maradona the best.
Que el va conèixer el 82 aquí.
He met him in '82 here.
I parla d'aquesta noblesa.
And speaks of this nobility.
Hi ha una certa noblesa en el seu caràcter.
There is a certain nobility in his character.
Pel que fa a identificar les necessitats i qui són els dèbils.
Regarding identifying needs and who the vulnerable are.
Que després es tradueix en un discurs d'esquerres per part seva.
Which then translates into a leftist discourse on their part.
Que és del que parla Zavala sobretot en aquest llibre.
This is what Zavala talks about most in this book.
En el seu article.
In his article.
Aquest Diego populista.
This populist Diego.
Que aquí no pot trobar cap de les maneres.
That he cannot find any of the ways here.
Perquè ell arriba...
Because he arrives...
El Barça ja és un club senyor.
Barça is already a gentleman club.
O sigui, el Barça ja és el club aquest que tenim com la imatge de que som els nens bons del futbol i tot això.
So, Barça is already the club that we have as the image of being the good kids of football and all that.
Això ja passava.
This was already happening.
En aquella època no sé si jugàvem tant aquesta imatge.
At that time, I don't know if we played that image so much.
Però Maradona quan va venir aquí no va dir el que va dir a Nàpols.
But Maradona, when he came here, didn't say what he said in Naples.
Quan va arribar allà va dir.
When he/she arrived there, he/she said.
Jo he vingut aquí a posar un somriure a les cares dels nens pobres napolitans.
I have come here to put a smile on the faces of poor Neapolitan children.
Aquí, si ho hagués dit, òbviament també n'hi ha.
Here, if I had said it, obviously there is also some.
Però com que els tenim una mica més marginats.
But since we have them a little more marginalized.
I no estan tan presents.
And they are not so present.
I òbviament no hi ha la plebs.
And obviously there are no plebs.
Que constitueix una de les particularitats.
That constitutes one of the particularities.
Que constitueix una de les particularitats de Nàpols.
What constitutes one of the peculiarities of Naples.
Un poble, realment molt poble.
A village, really very much a village.
On hi ha pobresa, on hi ha misèria.
There is poverty, there is misery.
I està present.
And is present.
Maradona allà podia dir això.
Maradona could say this there.
Aquí, doncs, l'eix a través del qual transcorre el vessant polític del Barça.
Here, then, is the axis through which the political aspect of Barça transpires.
No és el de rics i pobres.
It is not the one of rich and poor.
Sinó que seria el de Catalunya i Espanya.
But it would be that of Catalonia and Spain.
Que sembla ser que podria ser un dels significats del més que un club.
It seems that this could be one of the meanings of "more than a club."
Però, francament, crec que això és bastant problemàtic.
But, frankly, I think this is quite problematic.
I caldria parlar-ho amb un cert deteniment.
We need to discuss it with a certain deliberation.
En tot cas, diguem, si...
In any case, let's say, if...
Una de les dificultats del Barça és que s'hi ha de tirar endavant el país ell.
One of the difficulties for Barça is that the country has to move forward with it.
Pensant que ja en té prou amb guanyar els partits el cap de setmana.
Thinking that he has enough just winning the matches on the weekend.
El camp de l'Elche.
The Elche field.
El camp del Getafe.
The Getafe field.
Doncs em sembla una exigència una mica excessiva, no?
Well, it seems to me a bit of an excessive demand, doesn’t it?
Per partit de futbol.
Per football match.
Però, bueno, en tot cas, allà allò va quallar, aquí no va quallar.
But, well, in any case, there it took off, here it didn't take off.
I aquí, doncs, ell va venir molt jove i rodejat de persones
And here, then, he came very young and surrounded by people.
que, doncs, probablement no tots el protegien ni l'ajudaven, no?
So, then, probably not everyone was protecting or helping him, right?
Sinó que, al contrari, buscaven la seva protecció.
But, on the contrary, they sought his protection.
I ell mateix ho diu de manera molt clara a la seva autobiografia.
And he himself says it very clearly in his autobiography.
Diu, jo, quan llogué aquí, s'ha començat a parlar del Clan Maradona.
He says, when I rented here, they started talking about the Maradona Clan.
Diu, no hi havia Clan Maradona.
He says there was no Clan Maradona.
Jo tenia una casa enorme a Pedralbes, molt a prop d'una escola on tu vas treballar un temps.
I had a huge house in Pedralbes, very close to a school where you worked for a while.
Estava allà al costat.
It was right there next to me.
Tenia una casa molt gran, diguem, 8 dormitoris, pileta, piscina de tenis.
I had a very large house, let's say, 8 bedrooms, a pool, tennis court.
I què podia fer sinó obrir-la a la gent que passava per aquí, no?
And what could I do but open it to the people passing by, right?
I llavors posa un parell de noms de persones que entraven.
And then he/she put a couple of names of people who were entering.
I un d'ells té el sobrenom de El Ladilla, no?
And one of them is nicknamed El Ladilla, right?
De manera que ens podem imaginar que hi havia tota mena de personatges.
So we can imagine that there were all kinds of characters.
A més a més, jo crec que alimentats també pel submón de la perversió barcelonina.
Furthermore, I believe that they are also fueled by the underworld of Barcelona's perversion.
Perquè, òbviament, aquesta societat burgesa i tan ordenadeta, doncs,
Because, obviously, this bourgeois and so orderly society, then,
s'assosté perquè hi ha un submón de drogues, de prostitució, etcètera,
it is assumed because there is an underworld of drugs, prostitution, etc.
que en aquell moment també estava en gran pujança, no?
that at that moment was also on the rise, right?
Perquè estem parlant de la transició i, doncs, Barcelona estava bastant descontrolada
Because we are talking about the transition and, therefore, Barcelona was pretty out of control.
i les drogues corrien, doncs, amb molta, diguem, com si fossin un riu, eh?
And the drugs were flowing, so to speak, as if they were a river, right?
I llavors no és estrany que Maradona comença a drogar-se.
And then it's not surprising that Maradona starts using drugs.
A drogar-se amb la cocaïna a Barcelona, ell ho diu a la seva autobiografia.
He talks about getting high on cocaine in Barcelona in his autobiography.
De manera que s'ajunta tot això i després, doncs, que també té una lesió importantíssima
So all of this is combined and then, well, he also has a very significant injury.
per una jugada, doncs, criminal.
for a move, then, criminal.
I això, doncs, clar, viscut per un nen tot plegat fa que, doncs, creixis bastant ràpid, no?
And this, therefore, clearly experienced by a child makes you grow quite fast, right?
Des del punt de vista d'abandonar les il·lusions, no?
From the point of view of abandoning illusions, right?
Perquè t'il·lusiones.
Because you get your hopes up.
En aquell cas em vaig il·lusionar molt amb Maradona.
In that case, I was very excited about Maradona.
Recordo el seu primer gol a l'Estadi, que, a més a més, és un gol que no existeix a les biblioteques ni a les biblioteques.
I remember his first goal at the Stadium, which, moreover, is a goal that does not exist in the libraries or in the archives.
No l'he vist, només tinc el meu record i, per tant, doncs, el tinc absolutament magnificat.
I haven't seen him, I only have my memory and, therefore, I have absolutely magnified it.
En aquell moment a l'Estadi, que hi havia 120.000 persones, en el meu record i pel que he llegit als diaris,
At that moment in the Stadium, which had 120,000 people, in my memory and from what I have read in the newspapers,
l'Estadi estava ple.
The stadium was full.
És la primera vegada que el Barça no només perd el Gàmper, sinó que va quedar quart.
It is the first time that Barça has not only lost the Gàmper, but also finished fourth.
Vam perdre els penaltis tant a les semis com al partit pel tercer i quart lloc.
We lost the penalties both in the semifinals and in the match for third and fourth place.
I vam jugar contra el Colònia de Litvarsky, que haig de dir que també es va convertir en aquell partit
We played against the Colonia de Litvarsky, which I have to say also became in that match.
i en un altre partit del Colònia que ens van guanyar a l'Estadi.
And in another match, Köln won against us at the stadium.
Em sembla que 0-3 amb una actuació d'ell espectacular, no?
I think it's 0-3 with a spectacular performance from him, right?
Doncs per mi també era un dels herois d'aquella època, no?
Well, for me he was also one of the heroes of that time, right?
Un tio petit, també, com Maradona, amb un look bastant especial.
A small guy, too, like Maradona, with a quite special look.
Llavors, aquí això no podia funcionar.
Then, this couldn't work here.
En gran mesura també pel futbol que en aquell moment es practicava
To a large extent, also because of the football that was being played at that time.
i que aquí, doncs, és que Maradona havia d'anar a Nàpols.
And here, then, is that Maradona had to go to Naples.
La història s'explica a posteriori.
The story is told in hindsight.
Hi ha una necessitat teleològica de la seva anada a Nàpols.
There is a teleological need for his going to Naples.
Portar aquell club a una cosa que no havien aconseguit mai
To take that club to something they had never achieved before.
i fer-lo somiar d'una manera com ells no havien somiat mai.
and make him dream in a way they had never dreamed before.
D'una manera tan bèstia, tan bèstia.
In such a brutal way, such a brutal way.
Però això és una mica estrany en el sentit...
But this is a bit strange in the sense...
Bé, per mi, eh?
Well, for me, eh?
Perquè ja saps que el meu gran problema és que no entenc pràcticament cap dels moviments de Maradona
Because you already know that my big problem is that I hardly understand any of Maradona's moves.
ni d'on ve aquesta fascinació.
nor where this fascination comes from.
Però el fet que, o sigui, si ell seguia sent, després de l'etapa del Barça,
But the fact that, I mean, if he continued being, after the Barça stage,
per dir-ho així, considerat el que havia de ser el millor jugador del món,
to put it this way, considering what was supposed to be the best player in the world,
o pràcticament ho era, com és que se'n va a un club com el Nàpols?
or practically it was, how is it that he goes to a club like Napoli?
Que precisament la gràcia és que era un club molt més petit,
The point is that it was a much smaller club,
que no havia guanyat mai, no?
that you had never won, right?
Un Scudetto que no...
A Scudetto that doesn't...
O sigui, no podia haver anat...
So, I couldn't have gone...
No sé si això és una cosa de l'època o és una cosa de Maradona, que va anar...
I don't know if this is a thing of the time or if it's something about Maradona, who went...
No, allò és un acte de Ferlai, no?
No, that's an act of Ferlai, isn't it?
El president del Nàpols en aquell moment.
The president of Napoli at that time.
Núñez, doncs, era un passatero.
Núñez, therefore, was a pedestrian.
Jo crec que és un president que fa una certa modernització,
I believe that he is a president who brings about a certain modernization,
però, en tot cas, no el posaria entre el...
but, in any case, I wouldn't put it among the...
O sigui, no és en absolut el millor de l'època moderna.
So, it is not at all the best of modern times.
Eh...
Eh...
També hem de pensar, recordem aquella junta, no?
We also have to think, remember that meeting, right?
Diguem, tota una sèrie de tribuns, aquelles figures, aquells cognoms,
Let's say, a whole series of tribunes, those figures, those surnames,
aquelles coses de la Barcelona d'aquell moment, no?
those things about Barcelona at that time, right?
Que després, doncs, quan va arribar a la porta,
That then, when he arrived at the door,
la gràcia va ser que ho va refrescar allò, no?
The fun part was that it refreshed that, right?
Va portar gent jove i, doncs, dinàmica, moderna, etcètera.
It brought young people and, therefore, dynamic, modern, etcetera.
I llavors, doncs, aquest el va vendre, no?
And then, well, he sold this one, right?
Va quedar com el Judas, no?, del Barça.
He ended up like Judas, right?, from Barça.
És a dir, aquell que ven a Déu, d'alguna manera.
That is to say, the one who sells to God, in some way.
Però, venent-lo, també era necessari Judas, no?
But selling him, Judas was also necessary, right?
Per portar Crist a allò que va ser, no?
To bring Christ to what he was, right?
Calia que algú el venés, doncs, calia, també,
Someone had to sell it, then, it was also necessary,
que hi hagués aquesta transferència de Maradona,
that there was this transfer of Maradona,
que el van vendre, em sembla, per 1.100 milions.
They sold it, I think, for 1.1 billion.
I, a més a més, diguem, s'ha de tenir en compte, també,
And, moreover, let's say, it must be taken into account, too,
una de les coses que va dir Núñez en aquell moment.
one of the things Núñez said at that moment.
I que, doncs, era veritat, després de la batalla campal,
And what, then, was true, after the all-out battle,
a Maradona li va caure una suspensió a la Lliga Espanyola,
Maradona received a suspension in the Spanish League.
no sé si de 40 partits o d'una barbaritat, no?
I don't know if it's about 40 matches or something outrageous, right?
Quan s'ha de recordar que el carnisser,
When one has to remember that the butcher,
quan li va fer la falta aquella,
when he committed that foul,
li van caure primer un munt de partits, una cosa exagerada,
a bunch of parties fell to him first, an exaggerated thing,
i després el van dir com 15 partits, no?, per aquella falta.
And then they said he got something like 15 matches, right?, for that foul.
I després, al final, va quedar pràcticament amb no res.
And then, in the end, he was left practically with nothing.
I, bé, és igual.
I, well, it doesn't matter.
La història aquella va ser molt trista, va ser molt desagradable.
That story was very sad, it was very unpleasant.
Jo estava a l'estadi, també, el dia aquell que el van massacrar.
I was at the stadium, too, that day when they were massacred.
I, clar, com a nen, doncs, era molt dur,
I, of course, as a child, it was very hard,
perquè, a més, tothom allò va cridar,
because, moreover, everyone shouted that.
cridant assassino, assassino a tot l'estadi.
calling murderer, murderer throughout the stadium.
Bé, era això, era aprendre a anar al futbol
Well, that was it, it was learning to go to football.
i tenir, sobretot, decepcions.
and to have, above all, disappointments.
Òbviament, Maradona, també, en el meu cas, doncs,
Obviously, Maradona, also, in my case, then,
va contribuir a la meva formació.
it contributed to my education.
Recordo escoltant a la ràdio el Puyall,
I remember listening to Puyall on the radio,
cantant el gol de Maradona contra l'Estrella Roja de Belgrado.
singing the goal of Maradona against Red Star Belgrade.
I Puyall, doncs, clar, va dir, va cantar les excel·lències d'aquell gol,
I Puyall, then, of course, said, sang the excellences of that goal,
que després, quan el veus, òbviament, és fantàstic.
that later, when you see him, obviously, it's fantastic.
Potser, com a nen, no te'n saps adonar de la bellesa.
Perhaps, as a child, you don't realize the beauty.
Jo, com a mínim, necessito, de vegades, que m'expliquin
I, at least, sometimes need someone to explain things to me.
per què les coses són boniques i, a partir d'aquell moment,
why things are beautiful and, from that moment on,
les puc gaudir, no?
I can enjoy them, right?
I, doncs, Puyall i Maradona, junts, em van ajudar.
And so, Puyall and Maradona, together, helped me.
I Maradona, junts, em van ajudar a veure aquesta mena de coses.
I Maradona, together, helped me to see this kind of things.
També la final de la Copa del Rei a la Romareda contra el Madrid,
Also the final of the King's Cup at La Romareda against Madrid,
el 2-1, amb un gol a l'últim minut de Marcos.
the 2-1, with a goal in the last minute from Marcos.
Bueno, allò, jo estava també a la Romareda en aquell partit
Well, I was also at La Romareda in that match.
i, per mi, allò va ser com una mena d'epifania, no?
And, for me, that was like a kind of epiphany, right?
Haig d'entendre que el futbol era molt bo.
I have to understand that football was very good.
Pel Núñez, també, es va posar a plorar.
For Núñez, he also started to cry.
Hi ha les seves imatges, plorant, allò.
There are his images, crying, that.
Per una Copa del Rei, aleshores, ploràvem per Copes del Rei, no?
For a Copa del Rei, then, we cried for Copas del Rei, right?
Sí.
Yes.
I...
I...
Bueno, ja som a prop de...
Well, we are already close to...
Sí, sí, jo estic disposat...
Yes, yes, I am willing...
Bueno, jo, plorar, plorar...
Well, I, cry, cry...
El Barça només em fa plorar de bellesa
Barça only makes me cry with beauty.
i ho ha aconseguit només en una ocasió i amb Romario.
And he has only achieved it once and with Romario.
Però...
But...
I després hi ha una necessitat.
And then there is a need.
O sigui, hi ha una necessitat...
So, there is a need...
Era necessari que ell anés a Nàpols.
It was necessary for him to go to Naples.
En cap altre partit, en cap altre equip,
In no other party, in no other team,
s'hauria donat aquesta identificació.
this identification would have been given.
Estem parlant de Nàpols,
We are talking about Naples,
una ciutat de més d'un milió de persones,
a city of more than a million people,
una de les poques grans ciutats d'Europa que només té un equip,
one of the few large cities in Europe that only has one team,
perquè gairebé a totes sempre hi ha una petita rivalitat,
because almost always there is a small rivalry,
fins i tot a la nostra.
even to ours.
Em sembla recordar que n'hi ha una,
I seem to remember that there is one.
però ara mateix no recordo molt bé com es diu l'altre equip.
but right now I don't remember very well what the other team is called.
Europa, no?
Europe, right?
Crec que és el que està aquí més amunt.
I think it's the one that's higher up here.
Sí, no ho sé, aquest tampoc ara mateix no hi caic.
Yes, I don't know, I can't think of it right now either.
La qüestió és que allà són clarament monoteïstes.
The issue is that there they are clearly monotheists.
Òbviament hi ha molta gent també de la Juve,
Obviously, there are many people from Juve as well,
perquè la Juve és com transversal a tota Itàlia,
because Juve is like transversal to all of Italy,
però allà el monoteïsme maradonià i napolità és total
but there the Maradonian and Neapolitan monotheism is total
i amb l'arribada de Maradona es converteix en monoteïsme maradonià.
And with the arrival of Maradona, it becomes Maradonian monotheism.
Cosa que aquí no podia passar,
A thing that could not happen here,
perquè aquí d'alguna manera el lloc de Déu no està desocupat,
because here in some way the place of God is not empty,
perquè tampoc no és necessari que ningú l'ocupi de manera monoteïsta.
because it is not necessary for anyone to occupy it in a monotheistic way either.
Per mi l'ocupa Messi, perquè jo en això el glorifico,
For me, Messi occupies it, because I glorify him in this.
no l'idolatro perquè seria pecat,
I do not idolize him because it would be a sin,
però per mi trobo que és el jugador gloriós de la nostra història,
but for me, I believe he is the glorious player of our history,
però en aquest cas jo parlaria d'una trinitat.
but in this case I would speak of a trinity.
És ell, Xavi i Iniesta.
It's him, Xavi and Iniesta.
I per mi en aquest ordre es podria discutir sobre això,
And for me, in this order, we could discuss about this.
però aleshores aquests tres podrien constituir alguna forma de trinitat
but then these three could constitute some form of trinity
des del punt de vista d'una teologia blaugrana,
from the perspective of a blaugrana theology,
però sempre ho compartiran amb Kovala, segur, com a mínim,
but they will always share it with Kovala, for sure, at least,
Cruyff com a figura, tal com a jugador, com a entrenador,
Cruyff as a figure, both as a player and as a coach,
com a mena d'ideòleg,
as a kind of ideologue,
i òbviament Guardiola també,
and obviously Guardiola too,
també hi ha de ser,
it has to be too,
i segur que n'hi ha d'altres, n'hi ha molts altres abans.
And I'm sure there are others, there are many others before.
Ara, si comencés, no pararia.
Now, if I started, I wouldn't stop.
Però allà no. Allà, diguem, estava desocupat enlloc i ell el va ocupar.
But not there. There, let's say, he was unemployed anywhere and he occupied it.
A la gespa, perquè a la gespa va fer el que va fer,
On the grass, because on the grass he did what he did,
i després en els títols i en la creació d'un relat que l'han mantingut molt, molt viu,
and then in the titles and in the creation of a story that has kept it very, very alive,
ha tingut moments de baixada i ara clarament està en classes.
It has had moments of decline and now is clearly in classes.
Perquè si fa 12 anys hi havia el grafiti aquest tan famós,
Because if 12 years ago there was this famous graffiti,
doncs estava bastant despintat, estava fotut,
well, it was quite chipped, it was messed up,
perquè a més a més té una finestra al mig de la cara.
because it also has a window in the middle of its face.
La qüestió és que estava una miqueta menys tingut,
The thing is I was a little less restrained.
però a la capelleta hi ha un parell de capelles,
but in the chapel, there are a couple of small chapels,
i els nanos portaven fotos,
and the kids were carrying photos,
porten fotos de Maradona i les han portat sempre al mòbil.
They have photos of Maradona and they have always carried them on their mobile phones.
A tots els bars hi ha una foto de Maradona,
In every bar, there is a photo of Maradona.
als mecànics, a les botigues, al fruitet, a tot arreu.
to the mechanics, to the shops, to the little fruit seller, everywhere.
A tot arreu hi ha Maradona, i cada vegada més.
Everywhere there is Maradona, and more and more.
Després de la seva mort, més encara.
After his death, even more so.
Per què? Doncs perquè era un mes, era un napolità més.
Why? Well, because it was a month, it was one more Neapolitan.
Ell va entendre molt bé.
He understood very well.
La ciutat el va entendre, el va seduir.
The city understood him, seduced him.
Òbviament hi ha malíssimes companyies allà també,
Obviously, there are very bad companies there too,
perquè Maradona no triava molt bé els seus amics.
because Maradona didn't choose his friends very well.
Per mi la història de Maradona és la història d'un pobre tio
For me, the story of Maradona is the story of a poor guy.
que de sobte li donen tots aquests diners,
that suddenly they give him all this money,
però no només, sinó que és un individu que quan decideix parlar
but not only that, he is an individual who, when he decides to speak
i decideix dir coses que són molt simples però que són molt clares,
and decides to say things that are very simple but very clear,
és a dir, els poderosos, la FIFA, Joao Belange, Núñez, la Juve,
that is to say, the powerful, FIFA, Joao Belange, Núñez, Juve,
el capitalisme, al final.
capitalism, in the end.
Llavors dona veu a una indignació,
Then it gives voice to an indignation,
a una injustícia òbvia a les nostres societats
an obvious injustice in our societies
que podem atribuir a molts factors,
that we can attribute to many factors,
i que ell, en la contraposició aquesta, diguem-ne, populista d'esquerres,
and that he, in this opposing, let's say, left populist,
doncs atribuïa al capitalisme en definitiva, als poderosos.
thus attributed to capitalism ultimately, to the powerful.
El capitalisme, tampoc, ell no sé si parlava del capitalisme,
Capitalism, neither, I don't know if he was talking about capitalism,
en realitat té aquesta mena de cosa amb fascinació amb Cuba i el Che Guevara,
in reality, he has this kind of fascination with Cuba and Che Guevara,
però, diguem, si s'ha de posar en el lloc d'algú,
but, let's say, if you have to put yourself in someone else's shoes,
doncs es posa en el lloc del pobre.
then he puts himself in the place of the poor.
I això, que ho faci un futbolista, doncs francament em sembla que no està malament,
And this, for a footballer to do it, frankly seems not bad to me,
perquè avui en dia són tots molt nets.
because nowadays they are all very clean.
Molt impecables.
Very impeccable.
Les sortides de to són totes xorrades integrals.
The outputs of tone are all complete nonsense.
L'únic futbolista que hem tingut nosaltres amb una mica de consciència d'aquesta era el Luleguer,
The only footballer we had who had a bit of awareness of this was Luleguer.
que va dir fins i tot que era antisistema,
he even said he was antisystem,
però bueno, al final Paiu anava amb una furgoneta a entrenar.
But well, in the end Paiu was going with a van to train.
I jo conec, és l'únic jugador del qual conec algun amic.
And I know him, he is the only player of whom I know a friend.
És a dir, doncs és algú que...
That is to say, therefore it is someone who...
vulguis que no, està més proper a nosaltres i no viu en aquesta mena de bombolla on viuen aquesta gent.
Whether you want it or not, he is closer to us and does not live in this kind of bubble where these people live.
I Maradona doncs trencava.
So Maradona would break.
Aconseguia trencar la línia i aconseguia la identificació amb la gent.
He managed to break the line and achieved identification with the people.
I a més una cosa que a mi m'ha sorprès ara mirant alguns documentals i així,
And also one thing that has surprised me now while watching some documentaries and so on,
és que quan arriba realment sembla un noi pobre.
It's just that when he arrives, he really looks like a poor boy.
O sigui, quan baixa de l'avió, quan el veus,
So, when he gets off the plane, when you see him,
hi ha com una cosa que... a més he vist que li diuen el Negrito,
there's like a thing that... plus I've seen that they call him Negrito,
i que ve de Villaflorito i així,
and he comes from Villaflorito and so on,
i tot és com molt més pobre del que...
and everything is like much poorer than what...
Clar, la imatge que tenim de Maradona després doncs sembla indicar, no?
Of course, the image we have of Maradona afterwards seems to indicate, doesn’t it?
O sigui, que realment conserva aquesta vinculació amb una pobresa
So, it really maintains this connection with a poverty.
que és una pobresa també més difícil d'imaginar,
that is a poverty also more difficult to imagine,
sobretot en aquestes alçades a Barcelona, per exemple, no?
especially at this stage in Barcelona, for example, right?
Sí, sí.
Yes, yes.
La altra idea és que Villaflorito segueix sent un barri sense pràcticament canonades
The other idea is that Villaflorito remains a neighborhood with hardly any plumbing.
i sense aigua, una cosa molt miserable.
And without water, a very miserable thing.
Sí, sí, sí. Ell ve de la misèria total.
Yes, yes, yes. He comes from total misery.
Òbviament passa a ser un paio ric, també ostentós,
Obviously, he becomes a rich guy, also ostentatious.
però no al grau al que ens hem habituat ara, no?
but not to the extent that we have become accustomed to now, right?
És a dir, on, no sé, et poden fer un reportatge sobre l'armari de sabates de Benzema, no?
That is to say, where, I don't know, they can do a report on Benzema's shoe closet, right?
I hi ha més metres quadrats allà que en moltes famílies de Barcelona.
And there are more square meters there than in many families in Barcelona.
I em sembla normal, no?
It seems normal to me, right?
És a dir, avui en dia hi ha una ostentació de la riquesa per part d'aquests ninyatos
That is to say, nowadays there is an ostentation of wealth by these little brats.
que és el que són, que realment fa venir basques
what is it that really makes you feel nauseous
i fa venir ganes de deixar de mirar-se el futbol
and it makes you want to stop watching football.
perquè realment és bastant repugnant tot plegat, no?
because it is really quite repugnant overall, isn't it?
Maradona també és pervertit pels diners
Maradona is also corrupted by money.
que, doncs, no li fan bé perquè fan que estigui envoltat de gent tremenda,
that, then, do not do him good because they surround him with tremendous people,
d'una quantitat de gent que el volen vampiritzar al·lucinant, no?
of a number of people who want to vampire him is astonishing, isn’t it?
I ho veiem fins i tot en la seva mort.
We see it even in his death.
És tràgic.
It's tragic.
O sigui, el tio està envoltat d'un grup de persones
That is to say, the guy is surrounded by a group of people.
i ja des de fa mesos, des que es va morir,
and for months now, since he/she passed away,
una polèmica argentina sobre si el van deixar morir,
an Argentinian controversy about whether they let him die,
sobre què va passar amb ell.
about what happened with him.
Hi ha un tal Stimfale,
There is a certain Stimfale,
un tal Cossachoff, un quinaciólex,
a certain Cossachoff, a quinoxielex,
un grup de persones que ja des que va arribar a Barcelona
a group of people who have been here since they arrived in Barcelona
sempre ha tingut satèl·lits i ell els ha mantingut
he has always had satellites and he has maintained them
i la seva vida ha estat d'una sordidesa tremenda.
And her life has been of tremendous sordidness.
I malgrat això, és un individu que quan li posaven un micròfon al davant
And despite this, he is an individual who, when a microphone was put in front of him,
resulta que deia coses que no estaven del tot malament
it turns out that he said things that weren't entirely wrong
i que de vegades aconseguien ressonar moltíssim
and sometimes they managed to resonate a lot
i tenia la capacitat de transmetre el missatge
I had the ability to convey the message.
amb el qual molta gent es podia sentir identificada.
with which many people could identify.
I després, doncs, era enginyós.
And then, therefore, he was clever.
Jo tinc un llibre aquí de Diego Dijo, es diu, no?
I have a book here by Diego Dijo, it's called, right?
I són com les 120 millors frases de Maradona.
And they are like the 120 best quotes from Maradona.
I la veritat és que en té moltes, d'enginyoses.
And the truth is that she has many clever ones.
I n'hi ha prou de pensar la famosa frase
Just thinking of the famous phrase is enough.
del comiat de jugador més tràgica i més trista que s'ha vist mai,
the most tragic and saddest farewell of a player that has ever been seen,
que és el seu comiat, em sembla que és el novembre-octubre del 2001,
what is his farewell, it seems to me that it is November-October 2001,
que és un moment també molt trist de la humanitat,
which is also a very sad moment for humanity,
això, bé, com a mínim de la humanitat no ho sé,
this, well, at least humanity I don't know,
però de moment de canvi, no?, després de l'11 de setembre.
But for now, no change, right?, after September 11th.
Després es juga aquest partit de comiat d'ell,
Afterwards, this farewell match for him is played.
el qual ell quan entra a l'estadi ja és...
the moment he enters the stadium is already...
quan entra a l'estadi ja entra, diguem, derrotat,
when he enters the stadium, he already enters, let's say, defeated,
fa temps que no juga, està gras,
he hasn't played for a long time, he is overweight,
i es posa a plorar amb les filles al seu costat.
And she starts to cry with the daughters by her side.
I després el partit, doncs, és relativament trist.
And then the match, well, it's relatively sad.
Ell fa un parell de gols de penalti amb Liguita de porter,
He scores a couple of penalty goals with Liguita as the goalkeeper.
que no es tira.
that doesn't throw itself.
Està Stoichkov a l'altre equip.
Is Stoichkov on the other team?
Bé, tot plegat molt...
Well, all in all very...
Un grup d'amics, però tot molt trist.
A group of friends, but everything is very sad.
I llavors ell fa un discurs al final on diu, entre altres coses, doncs,
And then he gives a speech at the end where he says, among other things, well,
la frase famosa aquesta, la pelota no se matxa, no?
The famous phrase, the ball is not matched, right?
Que, doncs, bé, és una frase que dintre de l'absurd i ridícul
Well, it is a sentence that is within the absurd and ridiculous.
que pot arribar a ser el món del futbol, doncs aquesta, doncs,
what the world of football can become, well this, well,
és de les que té una certa gràcia dita per ell, no?
It's one of those that has a certain charm said by him, right?
Perquè, a més a més, és algú que viu la seva tragèdia
Because, moreover, it is someone who lives their tragedy.
davant de tota la humanitat, pràcticament, no?
in front of all humanity, practically, right?
És a dir, el detenen per drogues i està allà a la televisió filmant-lo,
That is to say, they arrest him for drugs and he is there on television filming him.
amb aquella cara de malalt, drogat i amb la policia, la televisió
with that sick, drugged face and the police, the television
i tothom atent a les seves misèries, no?
and everyone attentive to their miseries, right?
Clar, això, doncs, no deu ser fàcil.
Of course, that must not be easy.
Des del punt de vista personal és normal que hagi mort,
From a personal point of view, it's normal that he has died.
encara gràcies, que ha durat fins als 60 anys, no?
thank goodness, it lasted until 60 years, right?
I després, doncs, clar, és un individu que...
And then, of course, he is an individual who...
que després diu, no, aquest individu no tenia una vida exemplar.
that then says, no, this individual did not have an exemplary life.
Òbviament que no tenia una vida exemplar, no?
Obviously, he didn't have an exemplary life, did he?
És aquesta la gràcia de...
Is this the grace of...
Està travessat per totes les contradiccions, no?
It is crossed by all the contradictions, isn’t it?
Comença... Aquí fa...
It begins... Here it is...
Els nens d'aquí ja els recordem el seu famós anunci
The children here already remember their famous advertisement.
en contra de les drogues, no?
against drugs, right?
Que no sé si era subvencionat per la Generalitat o per qui, no?
I don't know if it was subsidized by the Generalitat or by whom, right?
Que està ell allà jugant a futbol a la platja
He is over there playing football on the beach.
i si t'ofereixen drogues, di no.
And if they offer you drugs, say no.
I justament quan ell estava començant a consumir-ne, no?
Just when he was starting to consume it, right?
Per tant, doncs, és...
Therefore, it is...
Té, hi ha la gràcia aquesta del...
Well, there is this charm of...
O sigui, que...
That is to say, that...
que ofereix molts... moltes perspectives
that offers many... many perspectives
per apropar-se a aquest individu, no?
to get close to this individual, right?
I després hi ha el vessant del Mundial, no?
And then there is the aspect of the World Cup, right?
Òbviament, sense el Mundial Maradona no és Maradona.
Obviously, without the World Cup, Maradona is not Maradona.
Però, clar, arriba...
But, of course, it arrives...
arriba a uns graus de...
reaches some degrees of...
de duració...
of duration...
per part tant d'argentins com de napolitans
for both Argentinians and Neapolitans
que des del punt de vista futbolístic
from a football perspective
jo crec que després els ha perjudicat, no?
I think that later it has harmed them, right?
Perquè, òbviament, ell és Déu
Because, obviously, he is God.
i... i no...
and... and no...
i el número 10
and the number 10
tant de l'Argentina com de Nàpols
both from Argentina and Naples
porta una càrrega que és impossible de portar.
it carries a burden that is impossible to bear.
En el cas de Nàpols, vam fer...
In the case of Naples, we did...
vam decidir retirar la samarreta del Déu
we decided to withdraw the God t-shirt
que, òbviament, és un error
that, obviously, is a mistake
perquè, de sobte, l'equip passa a jugar només amb Déu
Why, all of a sudden, does the team play only with God?
perquè el Déu és un número massa important per retirar-lo
because God is a number too important to withdraw it
i... i tots els que, d'alguna manera,
and... and all those who, in some way,
podrien haver merescut posar-se el Déu
they could have deserved to put on God
que ja no... no poden perquè està retirat
that can no longer... they cannot because he is retired
doncs, des del...
Well, since the...
el Pocho, la Betsy, el Pipita, el...
the Pocho, Betsy, Pipita, the...
l'Uruguaià aquell, que no me'n recordo com es diu
That Uruguayan, whose name I can't remember.
tots es mesuren sempre amb el Déu, no?
Everyone is always measured against God, right?
i és impossible
and it's impossible
i... i aquell equip del Nàpols, doncs
and that Napoli team, then
ha d'aconseguir guanyar una Lliga
He must manage to win a league.
sense Maradona
without Maradona
i sense... i...
and I feel... I...
o sigui, aconseguir allò que va fer Maradona
that is, to achieve what Maradona did
és una fita tan...
it's a milestone so...
tan encombrada, no?
so burdensome, isn't it?
que per ells... que... que...
that for them... that... that...
que és un equip que...
what is a team that...
que pràcticament s'ha... s'ha...
that has practically... has...
s'ha tret a si mateix la possibilitat de tornar a aconseguir-ho, no?
He has taken away the possibility of achieving it again, hasn't he?
ara estan primers a la Lliga
now they are at the top of the League
i tant de bo veure si... si ho aconsegueixen
I really hope to see if... if they manage to do it.
perquè seria una manera, doncs, de treure's de sobre
because it would be a way, then, to get rid of it
també el pes futbolístic de Maradona
also the footballing weight of Maradona
i Argentina, doncs...
and Argentina, then...
podríem parlar d'una cosa semblant, no?
we could talk about something similar, right?
perquè Messi s'ha de mesurar amb Maradona
Why does Messi have to be compared to Maradona?
també porta el Déu...
he also brings the God...
i com deia una mica...
And as I was saying a little...
Napolità l'altre dia
Napoli the other day.
diu que la grandesa de Messi
says that Messi's greatness
no és si és més o menys que Maradona
it's not whether he is more or less than Maradona
és que com a mínim ha suscitat la pregunta
It's just that it has at least raised the question.
sobre si es pot comparar amb Maradona
about whether it can be compared to Maradona
no?
no?
i això ja és... ja és molt
and this is... this is a lot
clar, però això és increïble perquè el que...
sure, but this is incredible because what...
o sigui, amb el Maradona futbolista
that is to say, with Maradona the footballer
diríem... clar, jo tot el mèrit que li recull...
we would say... of course, all the merit that it collects...
o sigui, que li sé veure a Maradona
So, I know how to see Maradona.
quan veig aquestes jugades o així, clar
when I see these plays or like that, of course
sense haver-lo seguit
without having followed it
és que s'assembla una mica a Messi
It's just that he looks a bit like Messi.
o sigui, això que diuen
that is to say, what they say
no, Messi ha fet els gols de Maradona
No, Messi has scored Maradona's goals.
clar, per mi és al revés
of course, for me it's the other way around
o sigui, és que Maradona en aquella època
So, it means that Maradona at that time
en aquells camps, en aquell funk
in those fields, in that funk
amb aquelles patades
with those kicks
va aconseguir fer gols que s'assemblen als magnífics gols
he managed to score goals that resemble the magnificent goals
que ha fet Messi
What has Messi done?
que és el... que és el bo, no?
what is it... what is the good one, right?
és a dir...
that is to say...
i és clar, costa molt saber quina...
And of course, it's very hard to know which one...
o sigui, en quina mesura és un gran jugador Maradona
So, to what extent is Maradona a great player?
o sigui, el mèrit, per exemple, de Nàpols
that is, the merit, for example, of Naples
això que deies, clar
what you said, of course
que guanya dos escudetos
that earns two escudets
una UEFA
a UEFA
però després el Nàpols no ha guanyat res
but then Naples has not won anything
o sigui, el Nàpols no havia guanyat res
So, Napoli hadn't won anything.
i després no ha guanyat res
and then he/she hasn't won anything
bueno, després ha guanyat, no sé si tres o quatre copes
Well, then he has won, I don't know if three or four cups.
en els últims anys
in recent years
el que passa que després de Maradona
What happens after Maradona
o sigui, la despesa que fa Ferlai, no?
I mean, the expenditure that Ferlai makes, right?
per Maradona
for Maradona
és...
it is...
hipoteca al club
mortgage at the club
i després de la sortida a Maradona
and after the exit to Maradona
el Nàpols entra en...
Naples enters...
en concurs i baixa fins a la sèrie C
in competition and drop to series C
i...
i...
i... però
and... but
com que ha creat ja una gran afició
since it has already generated a great enthusiasm
que ja la tenia
that I already had it
doncs hi ha moments èpics del club
so there are epic moments of the club
a la sèrie C
to series C
i quan tornen a pujar a primera, no?
And when do they go back up to the first division, right?
a la sèrie...
to the series...
que és una de les coses bones que té també
which is one of the good things it also has
ser d'un equip no tan gran com el Barça
to be part of a team not as big as Barça
pretén ser, no?
it aims to be, right?
és a dir que...
that is to say that...
que doncs que tens moments d'èpica
so then you have moments of epicness
i en situacions de precarietat, no?
And in situations of precariousness, right?
i nosaltres sempre estem doncs
and we are always then
patint per guanyar, etcètera
suffering to win, etc.
per estar molt amunt
for being very high up
i...
i...
i caldria veure fins a quin punt l'afició
and we would need to see to what extent the hobby
resistiria en situacions de precarietat, no?
It would resist in situations of precariousness, right?
que diguem que
that we say that
et posa més a prova en un equip petit
it challenges you more in a small team
però clar, això que deies de Messi i Maradona
but of course, what you said about Messi and Maradona
el mite de Maradona
the myth of Maradona
també s'alimenta del fet
it also feeds on the fact
que moltes vegades quan s'explica el que va fer
that many times when it is explained what he/she did
es diu que ell va
it is said that he goes
fer guanyar el Nàpols
to make Napoli win
pràcticament ell solet
practically all by himself
i que les seleccions argentines
and that the Argentine selections
que ell va portar
that he brought
una al campionat i una altra gairebé
one in the championship and another almost
són seleccions amb jugadors pèssims, no?
They are selections with terrible players, aren’t they?
bé
well
si és veritat o no és veritat
whether it is true or not true
òbviament aquí podríem entrar a discutir-ho
obviously we could get into a discussion about it here
veritat, veritat no és
truth, it is not truth
també necessita jugadors al seu voltant
he also needs players around him
importants
important
probablement no va estar acompanyat
he probably wasn't accompanied
de dos jugadors tan grans com Xavi i Iniesta
of two players as great as Xavi and Iniesta
però...
but...
clar, Messi no ha guanyat un Mundial
Of course, Messi hasn't won a World Cup.
i diuen, no, tenir equips més bons...
and they say, no, having better teams...
que els de Maradona
that of Maradona
bé, pot ser, no ho sé
well, maybe, I don't know
això és difícil de...
this is difficult to...
és molt difícil de valorar
it is very difficult to assess
però clar, diguem, el mite és aquest
but of course, let's say, the myth is this
i llavors
and then
sempre hauràs de respondre
you will always have to respond
al que hauria fet Messi
what Messi would have done
a...
a...
al Parma
to Parma
o en un altre equip
or on another team
jo crec que
I believe that
hauria pogut portar un equip
I could have brought a team.
a guanyar una Lliga
to win a league
per mi és inconmensurable
for me it is immeasurable
el que ha fet Messi
what Messi has done
i no entraria
and I wouldn't enter
a comparar-los
to compare them
bàsicament perquè
basically because
he tingut massa converses amb nepolitans
I have had too many conversations with Neapolitans.
sobre això
about this
i òbviament
and obviously
els deixo guanyar
I let them win.
i els reconec que
and I acknowledge them that
Maradona és incomparable
Maradona is incomparable.
a qualsevol altra cosa
to anything else
el problema és que Messi
the problem is that Messi
s'acaba al camp
it ends in the field
Maradona és camp i fora del camp
Maradona is a champion on and off the field.
Maradona és
Maradona is
una història, és un discurs, és una tragèdia
A story is a discourse, it is a tragedy.
és un...
it's a...
a més aconseguir un contra de les circumstàncies
besides achieving a counter to the circumstances
Maradona
Maradona
jugant
playing
fent mala vida
living a bad life
estar en males companyies
to be in bad company
havent, a més a més, de defensar-se
having, moreover, to defend oneself
de coses, decidint
of things, deciding
agafar el micròfon i xerrar
take the microphone and chat
amb dificultats
with difficulties
passa pels clubs
it goes through the clubs
amb dificultats econòmiques
with economic difficulties
a Naples se'n va fatal
It's going terribly in Naples.
les imatges seves
your images
a l'aeroport
at the airport
se'n va malament
things are going poorly
no pot anar-se'n
he cannot leave
a més se'n va sancionat per drogues
in addition, he was fined for drugs
tot és una situació
everything is a situation
fatal
fatal
i després
and then
ella es retira molt jove
She retires very young.
a més a més, té una carrera relativament
furthermore, he/she has a relatively career
curta
short
el pas pel Sevilla és bastant
the pass through Sevilla is quite
dramàtic també
dramatic too
ha de fer esforços
must make efforts
constants per superar la drogadicció
constants to overcome drug addiction
mentre és jugador
while he is a player
clar, estem parlant
of course, we are talking
d'una figura que és molt més polièdrica
of a figure that is much more polyhedral
que Messi
That Messi
que Messi, doncs, nosaltres l'adorem
that Messi, therefore, we adore him
però
but
òbviament, doncs, Messi
obviously, then, Messi
és només
it's only
és que ell
it's that he
té un ecosistema
it has an ecosystem
perfecte que
perfect that
es redueix a la gespa
it is reduced to the grass
allà dintre
in there
Messi, doncs, jo no he vist a ningú
Messi, then, I haven't seen anyone.
que entri en una
let it enter into one
és com el Gepard
it's like the Cheetah
que diuen que està perfectament adaptat
that they say is perfectly adapted
a un determinat territori
to a certain territory
qualsevol modificació el pot posar
any modification can put him/her/it
en perill i no pot aconseguir
in danger and cannot achieve
doncs aquelles puntes de velocitat
so those speed tips
Messi està perfectament
Messi is perfectly fine.
el jugador perfectament adaptat
the perfectly adapted player
a aquella mena de
to that kind of
situació, per això el que ens passa
situation, that's why what's happening to us
ara és que si
now it is that if
fas l'experiència d'anar a l'estadi, doncs
you have the experience of going to the stadium, then
fas l'experiència de l'absència
you experience the absence
que falta
what's missing
falta algú, falta algú que dona
someone is missing, someone who gives
sentit a més a més a aquella gespa
felt moreover on that grass
i aquella
and that one
gespa concreta de l'estadi
concrete grass of the stadium
durant 16 anys, doncs hi havia algú
for 16 years, there was someone
que donava sentit, tot allò tenia sentit
that gave meaning, it all made sense
per la manifestació
for the demonstration
d'aquesta
of this
d'aquesta prestació atlètica
of this athletic performance
perfecta
perfect
Maradona és com
Maradona is like
hi ha una imperfecció en Maradona
There is an imperfection in Maradona.
és malgrat
it's despite
les circumstàncies, ell aconsegueix
the circumstances, he achieves
el que aconsegueix
what he/she achieves
a part del futbol
apart from football
totalment diferent
totally different
molt més
much more
clar
clear
totes aquestes càmeres
all these cameras
que hi ha avui en dia i tal
what there is nowadays and such
doncs fan que sigui
so they make it so that I am
potser massa net
maybe too clean
o sigui, Maradona també és un fill del futbol
In other words, Maradona is also a son of football.
brut, el futbol
dirty, football
on no sabies
or you didn't know
mai si
never if
què passava perquè hi havia
what was happening because there was
dues càmeres, o sigui la patada
two cameras, that is the kick
de Goicoechea vista amb
from Goicoechea seen with
les càmeres d'avui probablement
the cameras of today probably
aniria directament al jutjat de guàrdia
I would go straight to the court on duty.
seria considerada una agressió
it would be considered an aggression
amb arma blanca
with a bladed weapon
pràcticament
practically
clar, en aquella època tot això
of course, at that time all of this
passava desapercebut
went unnoticed
però vaja, l'Emil
but well, Emil
ja et dic, des d'un punt de vista
I tell you, from a point of view
personal
personal
jo crec que molts van fer aquesta
I think many did this.
els nens d'aquella època van ser els únics
the children of that time were the only ones
que vam entendre
that we understood
Maradona
Maradona
que vam veure
that we saw
les possibilitats que hi havia a Maradona
the possibilities that there were in Maradona
la tribuna
the grandstand
no ho va entendre mai això
he never understood this
i probablement també
and probably also
jo no sé, hi havia una qüestió al final
I don't know, there was a question at the end.
de que
of what
era impossible identificar-se amb aquest tio
it was impossible to identify with this guy
diguem-ne
let's call it that
el classisme del club
the classism of the club
però amb aquest individu
but with this individual
no era fàcil
it wasn't easy
identificar-se
to identify oneself
és més fàcil identificar-se amb el Xavi
it is easier to identify with Xavi
amb un catalanet ordenadet
with a neat little Catalan
que no amb aquest
that not with this
individu que portava
individual that carried
tot el salvatgisme
all the savagery
de Villa Fiorito
from Villa Fiorito
i que
and that
tenia un discurs
I had a speech.
que no podia encaixar
that I could not fit
amb nosaltres
with us
discurs jo no l'anomenaria un discurs
I wouldn't call it a speech.
al final
in the end
tenia
had
una forma de comunicar
a way of communicating
molt
very
és que era agut
it was sharp
el Paiu
the Paiu
tenia les seves agudeses
he had his sharpnesses
d'aquesta
of this
astúcia infantil
childish cunning
presa
catch
en el lloc on ell
in the place where he
va créixer
grew up
que també és l'astúcia del futbolista
which is also the cunning of the footballer
que veu
what do you see
espais on no n'hi ha
spaces where there are none
i òbviament
and obviously
també s'ha de parlar
it must also be talked about
de la qüestió atlètica
of the athletic question
Maradona era un atleta
Maradona was an athlete.
de primer ordre
of first order
físicament
physically
tenia unes possibilitats
I had some possibilities.
brutals
brutal
sense droga
without drugs
hauria estat un absolut fenòmeno
it would have been an absolute phenomenon
futbolístic
football-related
però
but
potser només futbolístic
perhaps only football-related
l'imaginem
we imagine it
amb una vida ordenadeta, dietes, hores de son
with a neat little life, diets, hours of sleep
una parella fixa
a steady partner
etcètera
etcetera
però clar
but of course
seria una figura incomplerta
it would be an incomplete figure
si perd la contradicció
if you lose the contradiction
perd
forgive
la seva capacitat
her capacity
de suscitar
to raise
jo he participat
I have participated.
en aquest llibre
in this book
i en un altre llibre
and in another book
on hi ha com 30 articles
there are about 30 articles
més d'una perspectiva
more than one perspective
del Maradona populista
of the populist Maradona
també uns quants
also a few
de dones
of women
en aquest també n'hi ha dos
there are also two in this one
de dues dones argentines futbolistes
of two Argentine women footballers
les dues
the two
que parlen del Maradona
that talk about Maradona
que va ser un dels
that was one of the
que va apujar sempre a les eleccions femenines argentines
that always supported the Argentine women's elections
que tenia aquesta humilitat
that had this humility
d'anar a veure les capitanes
to go see the captains
o d'anar a veure l'equip
or to go see the team
i d'animar-los
and to encourage them
i de considerar-se
and to be considered
honorat de poder animar
honored to be able to cheer up
i tal
and such
era un tio que també tenia
he was a guy who also had
aquesta mirada a la justícia social
this look at social justice
la tenia
I had it.
d'una manera ben explícita
in a very explicit way
i això
and this
un futbolista
a footballer
d'esquerres
left-wing
un futbolista preocupat
a worried footballer
de manera grandiloquent
in a grandiloquent manner
per l'emancipació dels pobres
for the emancipation of the poor
jo trobo que és d'agrair
I find it commendable.
i que seria d'agrair
and that would be appreciated
que ara ja és impossible
that now is already impossible
perquè són una mena de robots
because they are a kind of robots
que estan perfectament
that are perfectly
controlats
controlled
a l'època de Maradona encara et podies
In the time of Maradona, you could still...
apropar a ell, probablement
getting closer to him, probably
els periodistes podien apropar-se
journalists could approach
Sí, de fet molta gent ho explica
Yes, in fact many people talk about it.
que aquesta gent que el coneixia
that these people who knew him
d'aquí o que el va conèixer a Nàpols
from here or that he met him in Naples
és perquè un dia es van presentar allà i es van caure bé
It's because one day they showed up there and got along well.
o sigui que són coses
that is to say, they are things
que ara sembla absolutament increïble
that now seems absolutely incredible
presentar-te als voltants del Camp Nou
introduce yourself around the Camp Nou
a conèixer un jugador
to meet a player
no pot passar
it can't happen
no sé si el futbol era menys competitiu
I don't know if football was less competitive.
aleshores, o sigui
then, I mean
era més fàcil que algú que es prengués el futbol en sèrio
it was easier than someone who took football seriously
pogués arribar a jugar
could reach to play
a futbol a aquest nivell
football at this level
o el futbol del Barça
or the Barça football
No ho sé, la veritat
I don't know, the truth.
ara suposo
now I suppose
que n'hi ha més de nanos
that there are more boys
però ja en aquella època
but even at that time
no estava tan extremadament
it was not so extreme
professionalitzat, tot plegat
professionalized, all in all
però no crec que fos
but I don't think it was
vaja, jo per exemple
well, I for example
òbviament vaig tenir aquest somni
obviously I had this dream
però jo era bastant dolent
but I was quite bad
era lent
was slow
no tenia en absolut les aptituds
I absolutely did not have the skills.
per ser futbolista
to be a football player
i
i
seriosament, òbviament
seriously, obviously
no m'ho vaig poder plantejar mai
I could never consider it.
però això no és una
but this is not a
això no demostra
this does not prove
que fos difícil arribar-hi
that it was difficult to get there
no ho sé
I don't know.
jo crec que era també
I think it was also.
extremadament competitiu
extremely competitive
i
I
no ho sé, hi havia, aquest individu
I don't know, there was, this individual.
hi havia una cosa que connectava
there was something that connected
jo recordo en un Barça-Madrid
I remember in a Barça-Madrid.
que vam arribar
that we arrived
jo anava a l'estadi com dos hores
I was going to the stadium for about two hours.
abans, pràcticament
before, practically
i recordo
I remember.
que està creuant la diagonal per baixar
that is crossing the diagonal to go down
cap a l'estadi
to the stadium
i que en aquell moment va passar
and what happened at that moment
l'autobús del Barça, el dels jugadors
the Barça bus, the one for the players
i era un grup de nanos
and it was a group of kids
ens vam posar a cridar, a saltar
we started to shout, to jump
i tal
and so on
i Maradona es va posar dret
And Maradona stood up.
a l'autobús
on the bus
a saltar com era
jump as it was
o sigui, no ens va mirar així
that is to say, he/she didn't look at us like that
sinó que el tio buscava
but the guy was looking for
connexió i realment
connection and really
la trobava perquè també venia dels estágers
I found her because she also came from the stagers.
llatins
latins
on
on
l'escalf
the heater
és tot un altre
it's a whole other thing
i l'organització dels
and the organization of the
cants, bé, ja coneixem
songs, well, we already know
com és el camp del Barça
What is the Barça field like?
el camp del Barça és extremadament soso
the Barça field is extremely bland
comparat amb molts altres
compared to many others
entre altres motius
among other reasons
també perquè hi ha una tribuna que no
also because there is a platform that does not
participa
participate
de l'animació i que espera
of the animation and that waits
ser animada per l'equip
to be encouraged by the team
no contempla la possibilitat
does not contemplate the possibility
d'esforçar-se mínimament
to make a minimal effort
perquè els jugadors
because the players
ho facin perquè aquí suposadament
they do it because here supposedly
com que els paguem
as we pay them
que és el que diu el tribunero habitualment
What is it that the auctioneer usually says?
quan cobra aquest tio
When does this guy get paid?
que aquest és un dels problemes també
that this is one of the problems too
que trobo que s'estan donant a les
that I find that they are being given to the
gent en el futbol en general
people in football in general
i és que aquesta gent
and it is that these people
amb tants diners que després resulta
with so much money that it turns out later
que porten l'equip
that they bring the team
etc. i tots els
etc. and all the
els ricatxos
the rickety ones
de la
of the
tribuna que els donen suport
tribune that supports them
de sobte es troben que clar
suddenly they find that it is clear
no tenen ni
they don't have even
una quinzena part del que té
a fifteenth of what he/she has
el lateral esquerre
the left back
amb la qual cosa
with which
fa que al final tot plegat
makes everything in the end
sigui un
be one
un joc de bé tot plegat
a game of good all together
és molt repugnant
it's very disgusting
com ho és sempre que
as it is always that
entren els diners d'aquesta manera
money comes in this way
en alguna cosa no jo crec que
I don't believe in something.
si ja a l'època de Maradona els diners
if already in the time of Maradona money
doncs estaven fent malbé el futbol
they were ruining football
i probablement el van començar a fer
and they probably started to make it.
malbé en el moment en què els jugadors del
wasted at the moment when the players of the
Barça li van dir al
They told him at Barça.
meu besavi a la resta de la Junta
my great-grandfather to the rest of the Board
que doncs que volien una
so then they wanted one
part també dels diners de les entrades
part of the money from the tickets
perquè caramba
why the hell
al final la gent els venia a veure ells
In the end, people came to see them.
llavors doncs clar primer
then of course first
la Junta es va resistir
the Board resisted
a que l'esport deixés de ser mater
to make sport stop being a matter
però clar
but of course
i aquella resistència
and that resistance
ha portat aquest desgavell
has brought this mess
d'avui en dia
nowadays
que fa que
that makes that
bueno que hi hagi
well that there is
una enorme contradicció en el fet de
a huge contradiction in the act of
seguir mirant aquesta
keep looking at this
aquest espectacle
this show
que s'ha convertit el futbol
what football has become
en un espectacle televisiu
in a television show
fet per
made by
perquè en gaudeixin a l'altra punta
so that they enjoy it on the other side
del món
of the world
no sé si el futbol segueix vivint
I don't know if football is still alive.
en el futbol
in football
si no
if not
segueix vivint als patis de les
continues living in the courtyards of the
escoles
schools
als camps de futbol sala
in the futsal fields
dels pobles
of the towns
a mitja tarda
mid-afternoon
però vaja i Maradona
but come on, and Maradona
doncs el feia
then it made me
viure més enllà dels diners
live beyond money
suposo que demostrava
I suppose it was showing.
també que els diners no ho són tot
also that money is not everything
en el futbol
in football
bueno més tenir una relació una de les coses que m'ha fet
Well, having a relationship is one of the things that has made me.
gràcia és que hi ha algun moment
the grace is that there is some moment
d'aquests que li fan com no sé si un homenatge
of those who make it feel like, I don't know if it's a tribute
però que i
but what and
fa aquesta cosa de Maradona
do this Maradona thing
que es posa com a plorar i tot això
that starts to cry and all that
li va comentar un del costat i diu
he commented to one beside him and said
clar és impossible tornar tot el que
of course it's impossible to return everything that
aquesta gent m'ha donat com ho faré això
these people have told me how I will do this
com
how
com els hi tornaré sempre
How I will always return them.
té aquesta bueno m'ha sorprès molt
It’s good, it surprised me a lot.
d'això de mirar algun
about this of watching someone
documental aquests dies i tot això
documentary these days and all that
la generositat de Maradona en aquest sentit
Maradona's generosity in this regard.
i el dir ostres
and the saying wow
és un nen pobre que està en deute amb el món
he is a poor child who is in debt to the world
que al final és
that in the end is
una cosa molt impressionant
a very impressive thing
i com li pesa això
and how does this weigh on him
en molts moments
at many moments
se sent que no podrà tornar tot el que
it feels that he/she will not be able to return everything that
i de fet el discurs aquell que comentaves abans
And in fact, that speech you mentioned before
la pelota no se manxa
the ball doesn't get dirty
que diu una cosa una mica estranya
that says something a bit strange
una mica estranya de sentir
a little strange to feel
que no s'acabi mai aquest amor que en tenim
may this love we have never end
que és com
it's like
si si bueno és el que
yes yes well it is what
va dir el papa no també quan va
He said the pope no when he went.
quan el va fer papa va dir
When he made it, dad said
pregueu per mi
pray for me
que és una forma
what is a form
d'humilitat
of humility
i de
and of
bueno
good
d'humilitat i d'absoluta
of humility and absolute
també grandiloqüència
also grandiloquence
és a dir
that is to say
però
but
òbviament Maradona
obviously Maradona
se sent estimat i en pes
he feels loved and in weight
per
for
per dos pobles sencers
for two whole towns
que seria pràcticament un de sol
which would be practically one alone
que és Argentina
what is Argentina
i Nàpols
in Naples
o sigui Nàpols és la ciutat més argentina
In other words, Naples is the most Argentine city.
més llatinoamericana d'Europa
more Latin American than Europe
si no comptem
if we do not count
Turquia
Turkey
i per tant
and therefore
és
it is
aquest poble també tant
this town also so much
que tendeix aquesta
that tends to this
religiositat popular
popular religiosity
molt expressiva
very expressive
exagerada
exaggerated
es troba
is found
o sigui el van
that is, they go
posar en un lloc
put in a place
perquè de sobte
because suddenly
els van fer sentir
they made them feel
doncs
well
bons en alguna cosa
good at something
és a dir això dels argentins
That is to say this about the Argentinians.
el segon mundial
the second world
el primer sempre ha estat
the first has always been
un mundial una mica brut
a somewhat dirty world cup
perquè al final doncs està en plena
because in the end it is in full
dictadura
dictatorship
està també bé hi ha
it is also good there is
partits comprats etc
bought matches etc.
en canvi aquella altra
on the other hand that other one
doncs els va fer sentir
so it made them feel
que els diners no ho eren
that the money was not them
tot precisament i a Nàpols
everything exactly and in Naples
igual el fet d'imposar-se contra la lluvia
just the fact of imposing oneself against the rain
contra els equips del nord
against the teams from the north
doncs això també és
so this is also
per ells una gran
for them a great
va ser un moment
it was a moment
únic els va donar
only gave them
és aquesta cosa el futbol
it is this thing football
en aquest moment doncs els va donar
at this moment therefore they gave them
doncs un
so one
un substitut
a substitute
fals jo crec que probablement fals
false I think it is probably false
no de
not of
de felicitat
of happiness
clar diguem si poses
of course, tell us if you put it in
són pobles també
they are also towns
supersticiosos
superstitious
que tendeixen doncs
what do they tend then
i fatalistes
and fatalists
no hi ha un cert fatalisme
there is no certain fatalism
que fa que aquest tipus
that makes this kind
de fenòmens
of phenomena
també els
also them
els faci confiar simplement
make them trust simply
que el
that the
que Déu proveirà
God will provide.
i llavors
and then
doncs fa que
so it makes that
una ciutat com Nàpols
a city like Naples
molt detinguda en el temps
very thorough in time
i amb una
and with a
amb una dificultat de
with a difficulty of
construir un futur
build a future
aleshores clar
then clear
el Maradona els va donar
Maradona gave them.
la possibilitat de sentir-se grans
the possibility of feeling great
per un moment que és una
for a moment that is one
maledicció però és una maledicció al mateix temps
curse but it is a curse at the same time
tinc un amic que està obsessionat
I have a friend who is obsessed.
amb això a Argentina que diu clar
With that in Argentina that says clearly.
els argentins aquesta devoció que tenen
the devotion that the Argentines have
per Maradona i per aquell Mundial
for Maradona and for that World Cup
que va guanyar però al final
who won but in the end
el país no va anar millor o sigui
the country did not go better in other words
és un és un amic això
It's a friend, this.
que semblen unes societats
that seem like societies
on Déu proveeix alguna vegada
God provides sometimes.
se celebra això però després es torna
this is celebrated but then it turns back
una normalitat de
a normality of
de pobresa o d'espera o d'alguna manera
of poverty or of waiting or in some way
sense que
without that
no sense que sigui un revulsiu real en la vida
no sense it being a real stimulus in life
dels
of the
sí sí sí jo crec que
yes yes yes I believe that
això també
this too
ens ho podríem preguntar
we could ask ourselves
pel que fa al
as for the
l'auge de l'independentisme
the rise of independence movements
aquí no que coincideix
here does not match
amb una magnífica
with a magnificent
potser la millor època del Barça
perhaps the best era of Barça
jo crec que
I believe that
alguns catalans de fet va haver un moment
some Catalans actually there was a moment
on es parlava
where it was spoken
seriosament que el país
seriously that the country
l'havia de portar el Guardiola ja
I should have brought it to Guardiola already.
o sigui que era el candidat
so it was the candidate
perfecte el qual demostra
perfect which proves
també doncs
also then
la maduresa política del país
the political maturity of the country
i clar
Of course.
va haver un moment on
there was a moment when
aquí semblava que
here it seemed that
la independència era tan fàcil com
independence was as easy as
fotre-li 6 gols al Madrid al Bernabéu
scoring 6 goals against Madrid at the Bernabéu
i òbviament fer 6 gols
and obviously score 6 goals
al Bernabéu és molt difícil
At the Bernabéu it is very difficult.
al Barça més encara
to Barça even more
doncs imagina't la independència
so imagine independence
què t'haig de dir
what should I tell you
que tu no sàpigues
that you do not know
però vaja
but well
que sí que va haver
that there was indeed
aquí la gent no sé què es va pensar
Here the people don't know what they were thinking.
és molt semblant
it is very similar
un fenòmen és
a phenomenon is
probablement
probably
doncs el futbol com a eina
so football as a tool
de creació de populismes
of the creation of populisms
està clar que
it is clear that
que
that
en el cas de Nàpols també
in the case of Naples also
no els va fer viure millor
it did not make them live better
els va fer sentir doncs això
it made them feel thus
és un substitut
it's a substitute
un substitut d'una victòria
a substitute for a victory
i aquí doncs hem viscut bastant
And here then we have lived quite a lot.
també d'això del Barça com un substitut
also about this from Barça as a substitute
d'altres coses
of other things
i ara doncs
and now then
ara ens aniria a perles
now it would go swimmingly for us
perquè ni una cosa ni l'altra
because neither one thing nor the other
estan funcionant i és molt més fàcil
they are working and it is much easier
que funcioni el Barça que no
that the Barça works that it doesn't
l'així anomenada independència
the so-called independence
sigui que
be it that
potser el que hauríem de fer és subvencionar
perhaps what we should do is subsidize
al Barça
to Barça
diner públic
public money
d'igual manera que s'ha subvencionat
in the same way that it has been subsidized
la independència
independence
amb un nou Maradona
with a new Maradona
i que aquesta vegada
and this time
Maradona català no
Catalan Maradona no.
nosaltres Maradona no podem
we cannot Maradona
és que no és un tipus de jugador
it's just that he is not the type of player
que funcionés amb nosaltres
that it worked with us
nosaltres funciona una altra cosa
we function another thing
un fill del poble
a son of the town
no funcionaria
it wouldn't work
perquè Guardiola i Xavi
because Guardiola and Xavi
són fills
they are children
són el fill de qualsevol
they are the child of anyone
és el catalanet
it is the little Catalan
i el
and the
Piqué segons com també
Piqué depending on how you look at it too.
el Busquets
the Busquets
i
i
tots plegats o sigui tots els grans
all together or in other words all the adults
d'aquella època gairebé tots
from that time almost everyone
els que són catalans
those who are Catalan
doncs eren
so they were
era una de les gràcies
it was one of the graces
o sigui
that is to say
la nostra gran joia va ser el partit
Our great joy was the match.
aquell del Tito amb els 11
that one of Tito with the 11
de la Pedrega
of the Stone
o sigui nosaltres ens
that is, we ourselves
és l'especificitat del Barça
it is the specificity of Barça
el Nàpols allò no ho busca
Napoli is not looking for that.
no s'ho han plantejat mai
they have never considered it
per exemple
for example
per ells és completament irrellevant
for them it is completely irrelevant
si el jugador ve o no ve de la Pedrera
whether the player comes from La Pedrera or not
nosaltres doncs li tenim aquesta
we have this for him then
ara eh
now eh
li tenim perquè a l'època de Maradona
we have it because in the time of Maradona
de la Pedrera hi havia el Carrasco
From the Pedrera there was the Carrasco.
el Miguel
the Miguel
no el Migueli no
not Migueli no
el Carrasco
the Carrasco
i algun altre
and some other
el Sánchez
the Sánchez
però hi havia pocs jugadors de la Pedrera
but there were few players from the academy
eren molt poc habituals i pujaven amb 24-25 anys
they were very rare and were rising at 24-25 years old
el Clos
the Enclosure
el Paco Clos
the Paco Clos
el Rojo
the Red
que aquests sí que van jugar amb Maradona
that these did indeed play with Maradona
i després l'Amor
and then Love
però l'Amor va venir a jugar després
But Love came to play afterwards.
però l'Amor va substituir a Maradona
but Love replaced Maradona
en el partit d'inauguració
in the opening match
al Ministadi
to the Ministry
Amor era cadet
Love was a cadet.
amb 15 anys em sembla
I think I was 15 years old.
clar clar és molt
clearly clearly it's a lot
clar jo el veig d'una generació molt posterior
Of course, I see him from a much later generation.
sí això
yes this
van fer entrar el cadet aquest
they had the cadet come in
després són d'aquests gestos
after are these gestures
que a posteriori adquireixen molt de sentit
that later acquire a lot of meaning
perquè va debutar un tio
because a guy made his debut
que després va ser un líder de la Pedrera
who later became a leader of La Pedrera
però no va ser
but it wasn't
el matrimoni no es podia donar
the marriage could not take place
amb Maradona aquí
with Maradona here
jo m'ho vaig creure però
I believed it, but
llavors em vaig adonar que allò no podia ser
then I realized that it couldn't be
i em vaig fer gran
and I grew up
amb unes quantes decepcions d'aquestes
with a few disappointments like these
i poc després
and shortly after
va venir el de Sevilla
he came from Seville
o sigui va ser tot un
so it was quite a
va haver una lliga pel mig
there was a league in between
sense Maradona
without Maradona
o sigui Maradona se'n va
So Maradona is leaving.
i guanem la lliga
and we win the league
al cap d'un parell d'anys em sembla
in a couple of years, it seems to me
però és que era impossible
but it was impossible
aleshores el Barça no podia guanyar la lliga
then Barça could not win the league
és que no hi havia manera humana
there was no human way
de guanyar la lliga
to win the league
però per cosa d'àrbitres i tot això
but for referee stuff and all that
no perquè no
no because no
no en sabien més
they didn't know any more
va haver
there was
el moment que l'haurien pogut guanyar
the moment they could have won it
va haver el segrest aquell del Kini
there was that kidnapping of Kini
allò ens va fastidiar
that upset us
perquè aquella lliga estava guanyada
because that league was won
quedaven 6 partits
there were 6 matches left
no aquella va ser una altra
No, that was another one.
va haver una que quedaven 6 partits
There was one where there were 6 matches left.
teníem 6 punts de diferència
we had a 6-point difference
quan les lligues valien
when the leagues mattered
les victòries 2 punts
the victories 2 points
i la van perdre
and they lost her
allò diguem
let's say that
hi havia una impossibilitat interior
there was an inner impossibility
de guanyar
to win
ho fitxava a bons
I recorded it as good.
teníem el Schuster
we had Schuster
que era un jugador espectacular
that he was a spectacular player
tenia el Simonsen
I had Simonsen.
també un magnífic
also a magnificent
no es podia
it could not be done
això com a mínim
this at least
si no i després
if not and then
jo em vaig adonar
I realized.
va haver un dia
there was a day
on de sobte ens vam adonar
suddenly we realized
que de fet
that in fact
no és estrany
it is not strange
que va ser precisament Menotti
it was precisely Menotti
qui ho va diagnosticar això
who diagnosed this
i Menotti va fer unes rodes de premsa
Menotti held some press conferences.
que eren magnífiques
that were magnificent
no tenien res a veure
they had nothing to do with it
amb el que havia hagut fins ara
with what there had been until now
el late que pràcticament no sabia castellà
the guy who hardly knew Spanish
i Menotti va dir allò
And Menotti said that.
de les urgències històriques
of historical urgencies
és un club amb urgències històriques
it is a club with historical urgencies
ens va psicoanalitzar
he psychoanalyzed us
estava ple de psicoanalistes argentins
it was full of Argentine psychoanalysts
va venir un altre
another one came
i va dir això
and he said that
i era claríssim
and it was very clear
i Mardona a més a més va arribar aquí
And Mardona also arrived here.
va ser tot per ell molt complicat
It was all very complicated for him.
va ser un club nou en el Mundial
it was a new club in the World Cup
el partit d'inauguració del Mundial del 82
the opening match of the 82 World Cup
poc, o sigui després al setembre
little, so later in September
jugarà amb el Barça
he will play with Barça
i aquell ja el perd contra Bèlgica
and he already lost it against Belgium
i el Mundial és fatal
and the World Cup is terrible
acaba expulsat
ends up expelled
del Mundial 82
from the 82 World Cup
surt expulsat
is expelled
amb el partit contra Brasil
with the match against Brazil
és a dir
that is to say
el seu començament és molt complicat
its beginning is very complicated
molt complicat
very complicated
al partit contra Itàlia li fan 20 i pico faltes
In the match against Italy, they commit over 20 fouls.
és el mateix tio
it's the same guy
o sigui
that is to say
cosa que no té cap mena de sentit
thing that makes no sense at all
que ara no té cap mena de sentit
that now makes no sense at all
però el futbol aleshores era així
but football was like this back then
i bueno
and well
es simulava molt menys
it was simulated much less
i els tios s'aixecaven
and the guys got up
com
how
diria que com a homes
I would say that as men.
perquè sí que hi havia
because there was indeed
aquell punt de virilitat
that point of virility
un futbol més viril
a more masculine football
més violent
more violent
entesa la virilitat com a violència
understanding masculinity as violence
en aquest sentit
in this regard
que feia que fos
that it had been
bueno
good
des del punt de vista de l'espectacle
from the point of view of the show
no era molt
it wasn't much
molt agradable
very pleasant
i diguem també s'ha de dir
and we must also say
i ja no sé
I don't know anymore.
ja ho deixem estar
Let's leave it at that.
que en aquell moment a Espanya
that at that moment in Spain
era una situació de molta violència
it was a situation of a lot of violence
o sigui els anys de Maradona aquí
So it's the years of Maradona here.
que són els anys que guanya el Bilbao
what are the years that Bilbao wins
són els anys que
they are the years that
Caeta està matant setmanalment
Caeta is killing weekly.
no sé
I don’t know.
que més d'una persona a la setmana
more than one person a week
mataven en aquella època
they were killing at that time
i a les grades
and to the terraces
també hi havia moltíssima
there was also a lot
violència
violence
perquè les aficions no estaven
because the hobbies were not there
separades o sigui allò
separated or that means
va ser a partir de la tragèdia
it was from the tragedy
Hazel que van descobrir que
Hazel that they discovered that
convenia separar
it was advisable to separate
les aficions i van començar a
the hobbies and they started to
establir unes zones en les quals no hi havia ningú
establish areas where there was no one
t'havies d'anar
you had to go
a la teva zona hi havia
in your area there was
guàrdies de seguretat van duplicar
security guards doubled
i triplicar la policia
and triplicate the police
perquè la situació s'havia
because the situation had
descontrolat totalment i es veia
totally uncontrolled and it showed
constantment violència
constant violence
a la gespa i també
on the grass and also
a la grada i al camp del Barça
in the stands and on the field of Barça
he vist escenes
I have seen scenes.
de molta violència
of a lot of violence
a la tercera graderia
to the third tier
quan encara era general
when he was still a general
situacions bastant
rather situations
bastant brutals
quite brutal
Déu n'hi do
Good grief!
i un ambient inimaginable
and an unimaginable atmosphere
i pacífic
and peaceful
això que deies
what you were saying
que aquí és tot molt pacífic
that here it is all very peaceful
jo clar, jo soc molt favorable
I am clear, I am very favorable.
Sí, sí, sí
Yes, yes, yes.
esclar, esclar
of course, of course
està a fer-lo més pacífic però
is to make it more peaceful but
aleshores el converteix més en un circ
then it turns it more into a circus
en un espectacle
in a show
que bueno, nosaltres és el que
how good, that's what we
jo crec que en certa manera hem gaudit
I think that in a way we have enjoyed.
enormement amb aquest Barça
enormously with this Barça
magnífic que vam tenir
magnificent that we had
és el fet que vam
it is the fact that we did
dir el Hans Ulrich Gumbrecht
say Hans Ulrich Gumbrecht
que és un
what is a
un profe que fa estètica
a teacher who teaches aesthetics
té un article sobre el moment
he has an article about the moment
àlgid del Barça-Guardiola
peak of Barça-Guardiola
i diu una cosa que el que fa
And he says something that what he does.
aquell Barça és crear bellesa
that Barça is to create beauty
mentre busca el gol
while looking for the goal
i
I
per tant, diguem clar, nosaltres
therefore, let's be clear, we
hem vist aquesta mena de futbol
we have seen this kind of football
diguem, artístic
let's say, artistic
sí, sí
yes, yes
és tot una altra cosa
it's a whole different thing
sí, una altra cosa
yes, another thing
que ha estat molt
that has been very
plaent però no ha deixat de ser
pleasing but it has not ceased to be
una estona
a while
que ha estat molt plaent
that has been very pleasant
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