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All right, all right, all right, dear people, welcome to a brand new For Your Success podcast.

My name is Stefan and I'm today going to welcome you to this special podcast because I have

My name is Stefan and today I am going to welcome you to this special podcast because I have

a special guest once again.

Emile is today here with us, someone who I've personally known I think for, I think two

Emile is here with us today, someone who I think I have personally known for, I think two.

years, two and a half years or perhaps three already, like three already, three years.

Well, time goes by fast, man.

So Emile has been, has made a tremendous journey in his entrepreneurial journey where

So Emile has made a tremendous journey in his entrepreneurial journey where

he's at right now, where he began and we met also, you know, in a funny way because, but

we'll get into that, I'm not going to spoil anything, you need to watch the podcast for

that, but we met in a funny way as well and now he's evolved to, you know, the point where

dat, maar we ontmoetten elkaar op een grappige manier en nu is hij geëvolueerd naar, weet je, het punt waar

he is, but the For Your Success podcast, of course, as you know, the podcast for ambitious

He is, but the For Your Success podcast, of course, as you know, the podcast for ambitious.

people, aspiring people or already existing entrepreneurs who want to grow or if you're

not an entrepreneur, if you're just someone, you know, willing to grow and

learn and reach more success in your personal business life, then this is the podcast

learn and achieve more success in your personal business life, then this is the podcast

for you and just like I mentioned, Emile, welcome, thank you so much for taking the

For you, and just like I mentioned, Emile, welcome, thank you so much for taking the time.

time today and getting to the podcast and let's dive right into it, man.

I think we have a lot of things to go over, so yeah, why not start completely at the

beginning, you know, tell us perhaps just a little bit briefly, you know, who you are,

beginning, you know, maybe just tell us a little bit briefly, you know, who you are,

what your age is currently and then let's backtrack it all the way to the beginnings

of Emile as a kid.

of Emile as a child.

Where did you, you know, grow up, where were you as a kid and we'll take it from there.

Cool, cool.

Yeah, so my name is Emile Dingemans, born and raised in the Netherlands and currently

32 years old and yeah, around four years ago I started this agency, email marketing agency

32 jaar oud en ja, ongeveer vier jaar geleden ben ik dit bureau begonnen, een e-mailmarketingbureau.

and yeah, basically built up from all the way from the start and right now at a good

position, so yeah, great to be here.

position, dus ja, geweldig om hier te zijn.

Amazing, that's so awesome, man.

So, yeah, so in terms of, you know, of course the email marketing, which I, first things

So, yes, in terms of, you know, of course, the email marketing, which I, first things

first, you know, that's something we do also as like a side service within our agency,

First, you know, that's something we also do as a side service within our agency.

which we'll get into in just a second, that is definitely one of the services that most

waar we zo meteen op ingaan, dat is zeker een van de diensten die de meeste

people don't go with when starting with an agency, they usually like leave it on the

People don't go with it when starting with an agency; they usually prefer to leave it on the...

side, but before we go into the entire agency, like tell us a little bit more, like how was,

how were you as a kid, like how did you grow up, like were you, because you're an entrepreneur

How were you as a kid, like how did you grow up, like were you, because you're an entrepreneur?

now, of course you run a business, you have, I think.

Now, of course, you run a business, you have, I think.

Team members, right, like multiple team members as well that assist you within your business,

Teamleden, juist, zoals meerdere teamleden die je binnen je bedrijf ondersteunen.

like I'm always curious when I'm talking with entrepreneurs that are doing well within

Like I'm always curious when I'm talking with entrepreneurs who are doing well within.

their business, like were you also like that as a kid, did you show assertiveness, did

you show specific like characteristics or traits as an entrepreneur or how was that

Do you show specific characteristics or traits as an entrepreneur, or how was that?

for you?

Yeah, so actually no, so when I was a kid I was quite introverted, so no, it was quite

difficult making connections with other people when I was very young, so that's kind of

difficult to make connections with other people when I was very young, so that's kind of

interesting.

Interesting.

I think like 15, 16, it started to change a little bit, so at the time I started going

I think around 15, 16, it started to change a little bit, so at that time I started going.

out to parties, stuff like that, I also became a DJ, I started giving lessons and being a

going to parties, things like that, I also became a DJ, I started giving lessons and being a

DJ at the DJ school, so that basically helped me in being more like extrovert, talking to

DJ at the DJ school, so that basically helped me to be more extroverted, talking to

people, stuff like that and just going out and also create a mindset of like the entrepreneurial

people, things like that and just going out and also creating a mindset of being entrepreneurial

mindset, so yeah, it was basically start around 15, 16 year of age that I started to be a DJ,

mindset, so yeah, it was basically around 15, 16 years of age that I started to be a DJ.

I started to discover like different sides of myself and started giving the DJ lessons,

I started to discover different sides of myself and began giving DJ lessons.

starting DJing and from there like years later I started doing some drop shipping, like more

Starting DJing and from there, like years later, I started doing some dropshipping, like more.

as a hobby to learn like different aspects of online marketing, yeah, that was basically

as a hobby to learn different aspects of online marketing, yeah, that was basically it.

how it all started for me.

Got it, that makes sense.

So would you say you were naturally more introverted like as a kid?

So zou je zeggen dat je van nature meer introvert was als kind?

Yeah, definitely, definitely.

Ja, zeker, zeker.

Okay, got it, got it.

Okay, begrepen, begrepen.

I wanted to mention that because I'm also, I was also introverted as a kid as well, like

I wanted to mention that because I was also introverted as a kid as well, like

you know, I always call myself like an introverted extrovert, if that makes any sense, but talk

You know, I always call myself an introverted extrovert, if that makes any sense, but talk.

me through like how you, like did you have any challenges like with that, because usually

like when you see, you know, you don't instinctively, you know, usually people think like when they

talk about like extroverts, you think of like Gary Vaynerchuk being an entrepreneur that's

talk about extroverts, you think of someone like Gary Vaynerchuk being an entrepreneur that's

you know, selling things on like a lemonade stand or something like that or, you know,

You know, selling things like at a lemonade stand or something like that or, you know,

picking flowers from someone's garden and selling it to the people that it's the garden

Picking flowers from someone's garden and selling them to people as if it were your own garden.

from, like, but for me at least as an introvert, it wasn't that the case, like how was that

From, like, but for me at least as an introvert, it wasn't the case like that, like how was that?

like for you, like that journey of like exploring as a kid, like finding what you wanted, did

like for you, like that journey of exploring as a kid, like finding what you wanted, did

you already knew that you wanted to do something, you know, creative like later on or like what

You already knew that you wanted to do something, you know, creative later on or like what.

was kind of your journey in that way?

What was kind of your journey in that way?

Yeah, so, so first of all, I think I'm still an introvert to be honest, so it's not like

Yeah, so, first of all, I think I’m still an introvert to be honest, so it’s not like

necessarily if you're an entrepreneur that you have to be an extrovert, definitely not.

It is not necessarily the case that if you're an entrepreneur, you have to be an extrovert. Definitely not.

It also depends on what's in your mind.

Like the definition of an extrovert or introvert, I think for me the definition is that if

you get energy out of social contact or if it just costs you a lot of energy, so and

you gain energy from social contact or if it just costs you a lot of energy, so and

for me it just costs a lot of energy being like a social environment and stuff like that,

For me, it just costs a lot of energy to be in a social environment and things like that.

so that's why I think I'm more of like an introverted, but yeah, it doesn't stop me

So that's why I think I'm more of an introvert, but yeah, it doesn't stop me.

from growing a business, so and to answer your second question, so yeah, so like I said,

so around the 15, 16 year of age, I started to change a bit.

So around the age of 15 or 16, I started to change a bit.

What also helped is that I did a study for economics and I started working, my first

What also helped is that I studied economics and I started working, my first

job was at a DJ agency, so it was like a famous DJ agency here in the Netherlands, so we booked

The job was at a DJ agency, so it was like a famous DJ agency here in the Netherlands, so we booked.

or basically make sure that our venues were booking our DJs, so that had, yeah, one part

of the job was that you had to go to the venues and yeah, make connections with the people

The job was that you had to go to the venues and yeah, make connections with the people.

over there, so you had to be a bit more extrovert, so it definitely helped me in changing my

over there, so you had to be a bit more extroverted, so it definitely helped me in changing my

mindset as well.

So I think that was like the biggest turning point for me, besides the fact that at the

Dus ik denk dat dat het grootste keerpunt voor mij was, afgezien van het feit dat bij de

year of 15, 16, I started becoming a DJ as well, so.

In the years 15 and 16, I also started becoming a DJ.

That's awesome.

Dat is geweldig.

So I think, you know, most of the people watching this, some will be extrovert, more and more,

So I think, you know, most of the people watching this, some will be extroverts, more and more,

you know, naturally inclined to be extroverted, more introverted, but for the people watching

this that are kind of like you and me, like when, you know, growing up, like what would

This that are kind of like you and me, like when, you know, growing up, like what would

you say are like important things to do as an introvert, because it's hard for an introvert

You say there are important things to do as an introvert because it's hard for an introvert.

to understand.

Yeah, I think introvert is like the importance of actually, you know, when running a business

Yeah, I think introvert is like the importance of actually, you know, when running a business.

you don't necessarily have to be of course like extroverted, but in let's say for example

you don't necessarily have to be extroverted, but in let's say for example

a business like an agency or like a, you know, coaching business or, you know, specifically

een bedrijf zoals een agência of zoals een, je weet wel, coachingbedrijf of, je weet wel, specifiek

like that, like you at a certain stage, you have to talk with people.

Like that, like you at a certain stage, you have to talk with people.

Yeah.

Unless you decide to use contract arbitrage from the beginning, which I don't recommend

Tenzij je besluit vanaf het begin gebruik te maken van contractarbitrage, wat ik niet aanbeveel.

because you will be missing out on a valuable skill that you can develop in terms of sales.

But what would you say for an introvert perhaps watching this, like what would you say helped

"But what would you say to an introvert perhaps watching this, like what would you say helped?"

you the most?

Was it just like, you know, putting yourself out there or just.

Was het gewoon, je weet wel, jezelf blootgeven of gewoon.

Yeah, so for me personally the golden tip was just fake it till you make it.

Yeah, so for me personally, the golden tip was just fake it till you make it.

So I know even as a kid on school, you know, you had to do these presentations in front

So I know even as a kid in school, you know, you had to do these presentations in front.

of the classroom and yeah, I hated that.

I hated that.

Ik haatte dat.

But I was just like faking that I was confident.

Maar ik deed gewoon alsof ik zelfverzekerd was.

So people were actually thinking that I was enjoying doing presentations because I looked

so confident, but actually I wasn't.

So confident, but actually I wasn't.

So I think that really helped me in like, yeah, just pretending that I was confident.

And then after a while you were like, hey, it actually is kind of fun.

So it definitely helped me by just standing in front of the class as a kid to give presentations.

And also now with business, I know especially in like the first half year, year or so when

having sales calls, I was like, I'm just starting here and they are here.

Having sales calls, I was like, I'm just starting here and they are here.

You know, that mindset.

And after a while, especially because obviously I'm from the Netherlands, so English is not

And after a while, especially because obviously I'm from the Netherlands, so English is not.

my original language.

So that also was kind of a barrier.

So that was also kind of a barrier.

But yeah.

Maar ja.

You just keep doing it and forcing yourself to do it.

You get the confidence in that, that you're doing it better over time.

You gain confidence in the fact that you are doing it better over time.

So it's just getting the reps in, just fake it till you make it.

So it's just about getting the repetitions in, just fake it till you make it.

And then yeah, everything is going to be all right.

That makes sense, man.

That's it.

Dat is het.

That's a great advice.

Dat is een geweldig advies.

And it's funny, like I mentioned to you before the podcast, like someone mentioned to me

And it's funny, as I mentioned to you before the podcast, like someone mentioned to me.

recently when two Dutch people talk, you know, in English, it sounds a little bit funny when

Recently, when two Dutch people talk, you know, in English, it sounds a little bit funny when

you hear that.

do you hear that?

But I think with us it's good, man, because we have a lot of clients also in the English.

Maar ik denk dat het bij ons goed is, man, omdat we ook veel klanten in het Engels hebben.

I don't think you even hear it as much.

I don't think you hear it as much.

But on that note, like that's just a side tangent.

Maar in dat opzicht, dat is gewoon een zijpad.

But getting back to that, okay, so you went to the DJ agency, you went to doing that.

Maar om daar weer op terug te komen, oké, dus je ging naar het DJ-bureau, je ging dat doen.

And then how, like tell us a little bit more like how your path went into like, you know,

En vertel ons dan hoe, zoals vertel ons een beetje meer over hoe jouw pad ging naar, weet je,

dropshipping and like, you know, getting started with the business, like how was that journey

Dropshipping en zoals, je weet wel, hoe je met het bedrijf begon, hoe was die reis?

for you?

voor jou?

Yeah.

So I think in like the first five years after graduating from college, I had different jobs

So I think in like the first five years after graduating from college, I had different jobs.

in like the marketing scene.

So at the DJ agency.

Yeah.

Like our marketing agencies as well, and just for like retailers, stuff like that,

Like our marketing agencies as well, and just for retailers, stuff like that,

doing in-house marketing jobs.

Yeah, I don't know exactly what the moment was, but at a certain point, I just started

Yeah, I don't know exactly what the moment was, but at a certain point, I just started.

reading those books and just understanding like the system that we're in and like how

reading those books and just understanding the system that we're in and how

you can be free and stuff like that.

And I just noticed that if you're just working for a boss, just working, getting paid per

hour is not going to give you the financial freedom that I wanted.

Hour is not going to give you the financial freedom that I wanted.

So yeah, basically that was like the turning point that I started Googling on like side

So yeah, basically that was like the turning point that I started Googling on like side.

hustles and stuff like that.

And that's why I also started doing dropshipping to first of all, yeah, make a side business.

And second of all, also making sure that I was just making sure that I could do more

And second of all, also making sure that I was just ensuring that I could do more.

marketing tasks because I did a study economics, but it was just fully focused on like offline

Marketing tasks because I studied economics, but it was solely focused on offline.

marketing, just like the old school analytics stuff and just the boring stuff that you never

marketing, net als de oude school analytics dingen en gewoon de saaie dingen die je nooit

use nowadays.

So all online marketing things, you had to learn and practice on the job that you did.

So all the online marketing things, you had to learn and practice on the job that you did.

And I did some Google ads, I did some email marketing, but I also wanted to know other

And I did some Google ads, I did some email marketing, but I also wanted to know other.

things of marketing, like copywriting, stuff like that.

So that's why I started doing dropshipping because with dropshipping, it's a really good

So that's why I started doing dropshipping because with dropshipping, it's really good.

model to learn different kinds of facets of online marketing.

model to learn about different aspects of online marketing.

So it was more of a hobby for me and yeah, I also made some side money with it, not a

So it was more of a hobby for me and yeah, I also made some extra money with it, not a

whole lot, but it definitely was the start for me in like being an entrepreneur and starting

a whole lot, but it definitely was the start for me in becoming an entrepreneur and starting

a business from there.

Did you have, were you working at a DJ agency and then on the side doing the dropshipping

Did you have a DJ agency job while also doing dropshipping on the side?

and learning all those things?

It was a few years later already.

It was already a few years later.

A few years later.

Okay.

Makes sense.

Okay.

Got it.

And so how did it then go with like dropshipping?

And so how did it then go with dropshipping?

Like you enroll in like a business model and then it's, oh, there's many things to learn

It's like you enroll in a business model and then it's, oh, there are many things to learn.

and then how did that growth like go for you basically?

And then how did that growth go for you basically?

Yeah, I think I did it for just like half a year or something like that.

Yeah, I think I did it for just about half a year or something like that.

After a while I was like, this is just not my business.

My business model with the customer support and stuff like that and also at that time

My business model with the customer support and things like that and also at that time.

in the Netherlands there was quite a bit of a discussion online if dropshipping is like

In the Netherlands, there was quite a bit of a discussion online about whether dropshipping is like

ethical with just buying products from AliExpress and stuff like that.

ethical with simply buying products from AliExpress and things like that.

So I was also wondering, is this like the thing that I want to make money with?

Is this a thing that I can really create value with?

Is this something that I can really create value with?

And I was like, no, this is not my business model.

So it definitely helped me, but I knew that this wasn't the thing that I wanted to do

Dus het heeft me zeker geholpen, maar ik wist dat dit niet was wat ik wilde doen.

like long term and that's why I switched over to like the agency side.

Got it.

So you were doing dropshipping then for six months and then you decided and then did you

So you were doing dropshipping for six months and then you decided, and then did you?

pivot immediately like after those six months like to the agency model or did you also do

like different things like in between that period of time?

Like different things like during that period of time?

Yeah, at the time I switched to the agency model, but first I did paid ads.

So just the famous Facebook ads agency.

Yeah, that makes sense.

Yeah, dat maakt zin.

That makes sense.

What was kind of your niche and how did that like go in terms of the beginning stages of

What was your kind of niche and how did that go in terms of the beginning stages?

the agency?

First of all, just the standards.

Like gyms and stuff like that.

Like gyms and things like that.

And yeah, so like escape rooms, gyms, like everything basically in the Netherlands.

So just purely, purely focused on the Dutch market.

Got it.

Okay.

Was that was it?

Was that it?

I remember when we spoke like three years ago, then we spoke, but I think I was at

I remember when we spoke about three years ago, then we talked, but I think I was at

a time when you already like had clients like you had clients and then we spoke, I think.

A time when you already had clients, like you had clients and then we spoke, I think.

What was it?

Yeah, I think so.

Yeah.

So you had clients that were like, you know, like in the industry and then joined your,

So you had clients that were like, you know, in the industry and then joined yours,

your course, just like growing the business.

What type of clients did you have?

Was that like the escape rooms and like gyms and all those things?

Was that like the escape rooms and gyms and all those things?

Yeah.

Or it was like pre-COVID.

Got it.

Okay.

That makes sense.

And then you came to the best program there is, man.

Come on, let's go.

It's accelerated the old school, old school program that we had.

So what, because there's a lot like for the dropshipping, did you all, did you just learn

So what, because there are a lot of similar things for dropshipping, did you all just learn?

it yourself or was it more, or did you also have like, you know, did you buy them?

Did you do it yourself or was it more, or did you also have like, you know, did you buy them?

I did all myself.

I did everything myself.

Yeah.

So just YouTube videos and stuff like that.

And also I knew quite a thing about online marketing.

And also I knew quite a bit about online marketing.

So it was just filling the gaps and just learning how to build a system of running a dropshipping

So it was just filling the gaps and just learning how to build a system for running a dropshipping business.

store.

Um, so yeah.

Um, dus ja.

Got it.

That makes sense.

And so what made you join the notorious agency accelerator at that time?

Having to, you know, had that all that information beforehand.

Having to, you know, have had all that information beforehand.

So I think the major benefit was that it was a Dutch course.

Okay.

It helped me.

I know at the time there were already a lot of big courses from like the United States

I know that at the time there were already many big courses from the United States.

and stuff like that.

en zo'n dingen.

But I was just looking for Dutch community also to build like a community and just learn

Maar ik was gewoon op zoek naar een Nederlandse gemeenschap om ook een gemeenschap te bouwen en gewoon te leren.

other people.

So, um, yeah, I think you just retargeted me with some Facebook ad or something like

So, um, yeah, I think you just retargeted me with some Facebook ad or something like that.

that.

And, um, yeah, that started, get the ball started rolling to it, to watch your, to watch

And, um, yeah, that started, get the ball rolling to watch your, to watch.

your course.

Just one question for you, because I've been a person, of course, you know, like I've,

you know, we keep on investing.

You know, we keep on investing.

We keep on investing in ourselves.

Whether that be books that you have behind you, the ones that I've done myself or mentors.

Whether that be books that you have behind you, the ones that I’ve done myself, or mentors.

What, what do you think of the entire, like investing in yourself in types of like programs?

What, what do you think of the whole, like investing in yourself in types of programs?

Because there's so many like fluff out there, right?

Omdat er zoveel van die rommel daarbuiten is, toch?

Yeah.

Just selling like air basically.

But what, what are your thoughts on people, you know, looking at this and they are perhaps

Maar wat, wat zijn jouw gedachten over mensen, je weet wel, die hiernaar kijken en misschien zijn ze

an aspiring entrepreneur willing to invest in themselves?

What would you say is really important before even taking a step like that or doing something

What would you say is really important before even taking a step like that or doing something?

like that?

Like that?

Yeah.

Good question.

So I think I was falling into the trap and buying a course.

So I think I was falling into the trap of buying a course.

And then buying another course, and then buying another course.

Just because, yeah, you were not growing the way that you wanted.

Just because, yeah, you weren't growing the way you wanted.

You were like, yeah, but this course, this is going to help me move forward.

And this course is going to help me move forward.

But yeah, after a while, I learned, yeah, the course itself is not going to make a difference.

Maar ja, na een tijdje leerde ik, ja, de cursus zelf gaat geen verschil maken.

But it's just the work that you put in.

Maar het is gewoon het werk dat je erin steekt.

And honestly, some courses can definitely help you with growing your business and learn

And honestly, some courses can definitely help you grow your business and learn.

like the basic stuff.

But to be honest, at this point, I think for like two years or so, I haven't bought a course

But to be honest, at this point, I think for about two years now, I haven't bought a course.

anymore.

meer.

Because it's just not necessary.

Omdat het gewoon niet nodig is.

I'm in communities, just with connecting with other people.

I'm in communities, just connecting with other people.

That's definitely a thing that you should do and invest in.

Dat is zeker iets dat je zou moeten doen en in investeren.

That's a really good thing.

Dat is een really goed ding.

But like buying books about, yeah, mindset and stuff like that.

Maar zoals boeken kopen over, ja, mindset en dat soort dingen.

I did it in the beginning.

But yeah, at this point, I mean, yeah, the time that you put in, in watching all those

Maar ja, op dit moment, ik bedoel, ja, de tijd die je steekt in het kijken naar al die dingen.

videos and reading the books, it just, you can put, use that time in doing outreach and

videos en het lezen van de boeken, je kunt die tijd gewoon gebruiken voor outreach en

getting clients.

So that's a much higher return on your investment than just buying another course.

So dat is een veel hoger rendement op je investering dan alleen maar een andere cursus kopen.

It's basically selling the same thing, saying the same thing.

But just, yeah.

It's in a different way.

So yeah.

That makes sense.

That makes a lot of sense.

And yeah, I think it's just in terms of like the stage that you get into, because usually

we begin with a course, then like you get the guideline, then when you know it, like, okay,

We start with a course, then you get the guideline, and when you know it, like, okay,

what's there else to figure out?

What's there else to figure out?

I just need to learn, connect with other people that are doing it as well and then evolve.

I just need to learn, connect with other people who are doing it as well, and then evolve.

And in terms of your growth, like you then joined, you had the gyms, basically the clients

And in terms of your growth, like you then joined, you had the gyms, basically the clients.

that you had then.

Talk us through.

How did your journey go?

Like, like how did your agency journey grow?

Like from there?

I'm really curious.

Ik ben echt benieuwd.

Yeah.

So first I was just doing the local brick and mortar stores in the Netherlands, but

then COVID hit.

Toen sloeg COVID toe.

So that was kind of a shame.

So everything was closed.

Of course, we know how it's been for like three years already.

So yeah, I had to do something.

I mean, yeah.

All these people are asking for refunds and they want to quit the partnership and stuff

All these people are asking for refunds and they want to end the partnership and such.

like that.

So that was the point that I started switching to like e-commerce businesses.

So that was the point that I started switching to e-commerce businesses.

Yeah.

And yeah, there was kind of a major transition, but because yeah, I was not just only switching

And yeah, there was kind of a major transition, but because yeah, I was not just only switching.

to a different niche, but also to a different country because I was not targeting e-commerce

to a different niche, but also to a different country because I was not targeting e-commerce.

businesses in Netherlands, but in the US and UK and other countries in Europe.

bedrijven in Nederland, maar in de VS en het VK en andere landen in Europa.

So that was the biggest switch that I made during my, my, my business.

So that was the biggest change that I made during my, my, my business.

But it was also the switch that I had to make and really benefited my, my business in just

Maar het was ook de overstap die ik moest maken en die mijn, mijn bedrijf echt ten goede kwam in slechts

all different kind of ways.

all different kinds of ways.

So.

That's interesting.

Dat is interessant.

What?

How did you decide to pivot to the UK and US market?

Yeah.

Well, you're Dutch as well.

Well, you're Dutch too.

So you kind of know how Dutch people are.

I know.

I don't think the few, I might, some people might not know or the Dutch people watching

I don't think the few, I might, some people might not know or the Dutch people watching.

might know.

I know.

Yeah.

So yeah, like the, the standard question that you get if you're in a sales call and you're

So yeah, like the standard question that you get if you're in a sales call and you're

saying, uh, yeah, the, the investment is like, uh, I don't know, a 1K or something like that.

The first question that they ask is, okay, so how many hours are you going to work for

The first question they ask is, okay, so how many hours are you going to work for?

that amount?

And that's the question that Dutch people ask.

Well, if you say this in the US or they're just saying, okay, let's go.

Well, if you say this in the US, they're just saying, okay, let's go.

Or they're saying, what are the results that I can expect?

Or they're saying, what results can I expect?

So it's, they have a really different mindset and yeah, for example, 1K in the Netherlands

So it's, they have a really different mindset and yeah, for example, 1K in the Netherlands.

is a big, big amount for a lot of businesses in the Netherlands while 1K in the US, yeah,

is een groot, groot bedrag voor veel bedrijven in Nederland terwijl 1K in de VS, ja,

that's nothing for them.

dat is niets voor hen.

So that was basically the reason that I transitioned to, to the US market especially.

So that was basically the reason that I transitioned to the US market especially.

That makes sense.

Now in that transition as well, of course for myself, like with realtors, you know, having

a lot of, you know, US clients, realtors, you know, all those things.

How was that like initial, you know, you know, basically that pivot for you, like, how did

I'm sorry, but I need the complete original Dutch text in order to provide a proper translation. Could you please provide the full sentence or context?

that go?

How's it going?

Like what outreach methods did you use?

What outreach methods did you use?

What worked well for you and how did that go?

Sorry, what was the question?

Sorry, wat was de vraag?

So when you pivoted to the UK and the US, how did like that process go?

So when you pivoted to the UK and the US, how did that process go?

Like in terms of like what outreach methods did you use?

Like, in terms of what outreach methods did you use?

Like.

How did, like the first couple of calls, like how did it go, like did you sign a client

How did, like the first couple of calls, like how did it go, like did you sign a client?

really quickly or, or because like, for example, you know, of course most of the people watching

this are of course Dutch and Belgium because we've had the program for a long time in there,

these are of course Dutch and Belgian because we've had the program there for a long time.

but other people that are watching internationally as well might be thinking, you know, I'm living

but other people who are watching internationally might be thinking, you know, I'm living

perhaps in Germany, Portugal, I don't know, like any specific different area.

If I would decide to pivot as well, how do I do that?

If I decided to pivot as well, how do I do that?

Like, like, like, you know, what's kind of, what are, what were kind of the first steps

that you took in terms of like switching over?

So first of all, it was just changing everything internally.

Because, yeah, the system was built on brick and mortar stores in, in the Netherlands.

Because, yeah, the system was built on brick and mortar stores in the Netherlands.

And now I was doing e-commerce businesses in the US.

So internally you had to change everything, first of all.

Second of all, of course, like the standard things with your website and other assets

Secondly, of course, like the standard things with your website and other assets.

that you have.

You had to change it to English and just change, yeah, basically everything.

And then of course you start doing outreach.

And I know back in the day when targeting the Dutch market, I, yeah, I can't understand

And I know back in the day when targeting the Dutch market, I, yeah, I can't understand.

nowadays that I did that.

now that I did that.

But I was doing manual outreach.

Maar ik deed handmatige outreach.

Email outreach to companies.

So I would just took my Gmail and I was sending emails to companies just one by one, every

So I just took my Gmail and I was sending emails to companies one by one, every

single day.

I, I can't understand why I did that, but yeah, at the time I did.

Ik, ik begrijp niet waarom ik dat deed, maar ja, op dat moment deed ik het.

And honestly with e-commerce brands, yeah, you can't do that.

There are so many e-commerce brands you can target.

So I also transitioned to like automatic, called email outreach.

So I also transitioned to what is called automatic email outreach.

So and also at the time I was doing like LinkedIn and Instagram, Twitter and stuff like that

So and also at the time I was doing things like LinkedIn and Instagram, Twitter and stuff like that.

for the Dutch market.

voor de Nederlandse markt.

And I stopped doing that.

I just purely focused on like called email because I noticed that it was just performing

I just purely focused on something called email because I noticed that it was just performing.

the best.

And yeah, in terms of sales calls, I mean, yeah, the first calls, it was horrible.

I'm not gonna lie.

I mean, my English is reasonable, especially nowadays, at the time it was also quite reasonable.

I mean, my English is reasonable, especially nowadays; at the time, it was also quite reasonable.

So yeah, the first calls, I was so nervous.

So it was kind of awkward, but I think my fourth or fifth call, I turned that one into

So it was kind of awkward, but I think on my fourth or fifth call, I turned that one into

a client.

And yeah, just the fee I got from that.

And yeah, just the fee I received from that.

Yeah.

I think that client was a lot bigger than I ever had from like a Dutch client.

I think that client was a lot bigger than any Dutch client I ever had.

So I immediately knew that I made the right choice back in the day.

That makes sense.

Did you get any questions about like, hey, where, like, where, I always got the question

Did you get any questions like, hey, where, like, where, I always got the question?

from like, you know, you were speaking to people like, oh, like, where are you from?

From like, you know, you were speaking to people like, oh, like, where are you from?

Like, oh, like, you know, basically like from when you see the Netherlands, oh, the Netherlands

Like, oh, like, you know, basically like when you see the Netherlands, oh, the Netherlands.

and then they also like get into like that kind of, did you get that as well?

En dan gaan ze daar ook een beetje in, kreeg jij dat ook?

Yeah.

I mean, one of the first questions that I do like small talk, oh, where are you based?

I mean, one of the first questions that I like to use for small talk is, oh, where are you based?

And I say, in the Netherlands.

Oh, near Amsterdam.

And I'll say, yes, I don't live near Amsterdam, but yeah, for, for American people or other

And I'll say, yes, I don't live near Amsterdam, but yeah, for, for American people or others.

countries.

Yeah.

It's just the easiest way to say it.

So exactly.

Exactly.

Yeah.

That makes sense.

I always get that.

So, um, okay.

So it makes sense.

So, so then you start and, and were you already like doing email marketing then?

So, so then you start and, and were you already doing email marketing then?

Or was it also still like Facebook ads, Facebook ads, Facebook ads for, okay, okay, got it.

Okay.

So how did like take us through the journey of getting to the point of, you know, you

Sorry, but there seems to be a misunderstanding. The text you provided is in English. If you have a Dutch text you'd like translated, please share that, and I'll be happy to assist!

now doing email marketing, like starting off with Facebook ads.

Mm-hmm.

And like, how did that, like, how did that go?

En, zoals, hoe ging dat, zoals, hoe ging dat?

Yeah.

So I started doing Facebook ads and, uh, I mean, for some clients we had good results

So I started doing Facebook ads and, uh, I mean, for some clients we had good results.

for our clients.

voor onze klanten.

We didn't have good results.

And, uh, I was doing everything by myself back in the day.

En, uh, ik deed alles in mijn eentje vroeger.

And yeah, you had to go inside ad manager every single day, just checking it.

And yeah, you had to go inside the ad manager every single day, just checking it.

And what I noticed is that like every day I was sort of afraid that the results of the

previous day weren't good for our clients.

The previous day wasn't good for our clients.

So it just caused me a lot of stress that the results weren't good because you know,

you have good days, you have bad days.

You have good days, you have bad days.

Uh, and in the end the result was, was pretty good for, for a lot of our clients.

Uh, but yeah, just a daily stress.

Uh, maar ja, gewoon een dagelijkse stress.

I didn't like that.

Uh, and also what I noticed when I was talking to, to, to my clients is that they had a lot

Uh, and also something I noticed when I was talking to my clients is that they had a lot

of problems with like the profit margins and just turning their, their first time buyers

or problems with things like profit margins and just turning their first-time buyers

into returning customers.

So, um, yeah, once, yeah, at a certain point there was one client I was talking to him

So, um, yeah, once, yeah, at a certain point there was one client I was talking to him.

and um, I was just saying like, Hey, we might could try email marketing for you because

and um, I was just saying like, Hey, we might be able to try email marketing for you because

I wasn't, he wasn't doing anything, anything with email marketing.

Yeah.

So he had a Klaviyo account, I was going inside his Klaviyo account and uh, had a history

So he had a Klaviyo account, I was going into his Klaviyo account and uh, had a history.

as email marketer for a retailer in the Netherlands when I wasn't having my own business.

as an email marketer for a retailer in the Netherlands when I wasn't running my own business.

So I knew a couple of things about email marketing actually.

So I actually knew a couple of things about email marketing.

Um, so I knew a few quick wins that will generate them a lot more revenue.

So I was doing a side across self to him for email marketing and start doing that and we're

So I was doing a side project for him for email marketing and started doing that and we're

getting some amazing results for him actually.

So that was the turning point for me that I was like, Hey, I actually like this a lot

So that was the turning point for me that I was like, Hey, I actually like this a lot.

better.

I don't have to day to day hustle with like a bad results, good results because it's

I don't have to deal with the day-to-day hustle of bad results or good results because it's

more like a steady flow of revenue that you're getting.

more like a steady flow of revenue that you're receiving.

So personally I liked it a lot better.

I noticed that, uh, that we had some really great results also for our clients.

I noticed that, uh, we had some really great results also for our clients.

I was cross selling email marketing to them.

I was cross-selling email marketing to them.

Um, so yeah, after a while then we also had iOS 14 or 15, I don't know anymore.

Um, so yeah, after a while we also had iOS 14 or 15, I don't remember anymore.

We'd like the cookie stuff, uh, so then the results were even worse for, for Facebook

We zouden de cookie dingen willen, eh, dus de resultaten waren zelfs nog slechter voor Facebook.

ads.

It was difficult to target like specific people and stuff like that.

It was difficult to target specific people and things like that.

Um, so that was the, basically the point that I was.

Um, dus dat was de, basically het punt dat ik maakte.

I was like, Hey, I'm just going to transition the whole business again, uh, for like the

Ik dacht: Hé, ik ga het hele bedrijf gewoon weer opnieuw overzetten, uh, voor zoals de

second, third time.

And now I'm going to do like email marketing for, for e-commerce brands.

And now I'm going to do email marketing for e-commerce brands.

And um, yeah, that was the last switch that I made and I'm still happy with that.

That I did that.

That makes sense, man.

So I think what a lot of people don't understand, like, uh, you know, with students of what

like our programs and things, they, they think that they choose one niche, choose one offer

Like our programs and things, they, they think that they choose one niche, choose one offer.

and then that's it.

en dan is dat het.

Like that's the end game, but it's not, that's just where it starts.

Like you evolve.

You evolve as an agency owner.

So you mentioned you pivoted like almost two, three times until you found like the

right one.

juiste.

And for me it was the same, like I pivoted four times and now it's like, okay, e-commerce

En voor mij was het hetzelfde, ik draaide vier keer om en nu is het zo van, oké, e-commerce.

and coaches.

Like that's, that's the main thing that we're doing.

And we're, what I told you before, like we're kind of a growth partner within their business.

We're doing, you know, most of the things.

So on that note, like, you know, with email marketing, I think a lot of people might have

Dus met dat in gedachten, zoals je weet, met e-mailmarketing, denk ik dat veel mensen misschien...

questions like in terms of, you know, that I also had like before, you know, getting

Questions zoals in termen van, weet je, dat ik ook had zoals eerder, weet je, krijgen.

into Klaviyo, you know, the flows, like, you know, setting up campaigns.

So when we talk about email marketing in itself, what would you say are the main, um,

like benefits compared to, you know, doing the standard meta ads or like Facebook ads

or Google ads or just for, or TikTok ads for clients?

Like what would you say were the main benefits from your perspective doing, you know, like

email marketing instead of something else?

Yeah.

So I think with meta ads, like main thing, the main goal is to acquire new customers

So I think with meta ads, like the main thing, the main goal is to acquire new customers.

with meta ads.

Also you have your retargeting ads and stuff like that.

Also, you have your retargeting ads and things like that.

But the main goal is just getting the first customer in, uh, but honestly you have your

Maar het belangrijkste doel is gewoon om de eerste klant binnen te halen, eh, maar eerlijk gezegd heb je je

ad costs.

advertising costs.

Those are rising every single year, so you have to spend more and more to get a new customer

Those are increasing every single year, so you have to spend more and more to acquire a new customer.

for your brand.

While with email marketing, you're basically doing three things.

With email marketing, you're basically doing three things.

First of all, you're making sure that the website traffic is being captured into your

First of all, you're ensuring that the website traffic is being captured into your

email list.

That's the first thing.

Dat is het eerste.

Then you're making sure that your new subscribers are doing the first purchase at your store.

Then you're ensuring that your new subscribers are making their first purchase at your store.

So that's the second thing.

And then you can make sure with email marketing that this first time buyer will come back

And then you can ensure through email marketing that this first-time buyer will return.

and do another purchase and another purchase.

and make another purchase and another purchase.

So the retention side of it.

So the retention aspect of it.

So you're basically filling the complete customer journey with, with email marketing compared

So you're basically filling the entire customer journey with email marketing compared to

to paid ads, which is just like the first step of, uh, of the customer journey is getting

the first purchase.

So I think that's the beauty of email marketing.

Also you do need paid ads next to email marketing because yeah, email marketing is not going

Also, you do need paid ads alongside email marketing because, yes, email marketing is not going.

to generate more website traffic.

You do need like paid ads or, uh, influencer marketing for that.

You do need paid ads or, uh, influencer marketing for that.

Um, but after that you don't have to add costs.

You have a lot more profit margins to work with.

You can actually increase the customer.

Lifetime value for a brand.

You can increase the average or the value for brands.

Those are things that you cannot easily do with like meta ads or something like that.

Those are things that you cannot easily do with, like, meta ads or something like that.

Are there specific things that in terms of the brands that you work with, I mean then

Are there specific things regarding the brands that you work with, I mean then?

when you started, of course you work with the specific brand, but then you evolve like

to the brands that you're working right now.

to the brands that you're currently working with.

Are there specific things brands would need like e-commerce brands would need before you

Are there specific things that brands would need, like e-commerce brands would need, before you?

would start working with them in terms of like email marketing?

Would start working with them in terms of email marketing?

So, um, obviously you have like a certain amount of revenue that the brand needs.

Yeah.

And this is increasing over time.

Uh, but in general, like ideally you would have a brand that has a product that people

Uh, maar in het algemeen, idealiter zou je een merk hebben dat een product heeft dat mensen

like to buy more.

I mean if you're just selling a couch or something like that, um, yeah, there's not a whole lot

I mean if you're just selling a couch or something like that, um, yeah, there's not a whole lot.

of retention side to it.

If you're just selling couches for example, uh, I mean you can help with making sure that

If you’re just selling couches for example, uh, I mean you can help with making sure that

people are buying the first couch, but yeah, people are not going to buy a second couch

People are buying the first couch, but yeah, people are not going to buy a second couch.

in like a year or so.

in about a year or so.

I mean normally they wouldn't.

Ik bedoel normaal zouden ze dat niet doen.

So, um, yeah, so that's why working with like skincare brands or stuff like that, so with

So, um, yeah, so that's why working with skincare brands or something like that, so with

products that they have.

producten die ze hebben.

Uh, if you're looking to buy every single month or every single three or two or three

Uh, if you're looking to buy every single month or every two or three months.

months, that definitely helps in getting better results with email marketing, uh, and also

maanden, dat helpt zeker om betere resultaten te behalen met e-mailmarketing, uh, en ook

with brands that have multiple products that they sell so you can cross all different products.

with brands that have multiple products they sell so you can crossover all different products.

So let's say again skincare brand, if they sell a moisturizer, they probably also sell

So let's say again skincare brand, if they sell a moisturizer, they probably also sell.

like a cleanser or something like that.

So those are things that you can cross sell and making sure that you're increasing the

So those are things that you can cross-sell and ensure that you're increasing the

average order value.

So that's definitely helps with email marketing, uh, with that being said, we also work with

So that definitely helps with email marketing, uh, with that being said, we also work with

clients with like one product stores and we're still getting some, some great results with

clients with single product stores and we're still getting some great results with

that as well.

that too.

Um, but it kind of depends on the situation and specific niche and if it has like a certain,

Um, maar het hangt een beetje af van de situatie en specifieke niche en als het een bepaalde heeft,

yeah, aspects of, of, of, of a good and growing business, um, like the brands that we are

Yeah, aspects of, of, of, of a good and growing business, um, like the brands that we are.

working with.

werken met.

Got it.

That's what I was curious to know because like when we talk about average order value,

Dat was waar ik nieuwsgierig naar was, want als we het hebben over de gemiddelde orderwaarde,

you know, when we talk about couches or like, you know, chairs or something like that, like

You know, when we talk about couches or like, you know, chairs or something like that, like

they might have like a higher, like average order value, but like usually the sales process

They might have a higher average order value, but usually the sales process.

for specific products is like longer, which would mean like, you know, using like campaigns

For specific products, it takes longer, which would mean, you know, using campaigns like that.

or like, of course flows are important, but so, so there.

There are like specific things you look at, right.

There are specific things you look at, right?

In terms of revenue, in terms of, you know, what types of brands to do it for.

In termen van inkomsten, in termen van, je weet wel, voor welke soorten merken het te doen.

Okay.

That makes sense.

And so let's see, for example, a brand is doing good revenue, but they are not doing

like I was telling you, one of our clients, they have MailChimp and they're doing 150,000

Like I was telling you, one of our clients, they have MailChimp and they're doing 150,000.

per month.

Funny story for the people watching, like we have one client and, um, and they want

Grappig verhaal voor de kijkers, zoals we hebben één klant en, um, en ze willen.

to go to, you know, we're, we're talking about like, you know, different email softwares that

to go to, you know, we're, we're talking about like, you know, different email software that

they go to.

They want something else, but like, what would you say, you know, in terms of a brand

They want something else, but like, what would you say, you know, in terms of a brand?

already doing good revenue, what would be the biggest wins, you know, of course it depends

Already generating good revenue, what would be the biggest wins, you know, of course it depends.

of course.

Right.

Recht.

In terms of, but you know, if you were to set it up for like from scratch, would it

In terms of, but you know, if you were to set it up from scratch, would it

be like the flow setting up, you know, a specific content calendar to like, you know, do campaigns

Be like the flow setting up, you know, a specific content calendar to like, you know, do campaigns.

for them?

voor hen?

Like what, what are some like for the perhaps people watching that, you know, want to get

Like what, what are some suggestions for the people who are perhaps watching that, you know, want to get involved?

into email marketing, want to learn a little bit more, like what are some quick wins that

they could get their client?

Could they get their client?

Of course.

It's a broad question.

Of course it could depend, depends on the, on the e-commerce brand, but just like some

quick wins that you have noticed when you start working with a brand that you like to

quick wins that you have noticed when you start working with a brand that you like.

implement, uh, if they don't have nothing.

implement, uh, if they don't have anything.

And then I want to get into second question is if they already have flows, if they already

And then I want to get into the second question, which is whether they already have flows, if they already...

have something like that, like how do you work on that?

Have something like that, like how do you work on it?

So yeah.

So a few, a few quick wins, I would say, first of all, get them on Klaviyo or Sendlane.

So a few quick wins, I would say, first of all, get them on Klaviyo or Sendlane.

First of all, second of all, Klaviyo man, or Sendlane.

No active campaigns.

No MailChimp.

No nothing like that.

No, nothing like that.

A second of all, like a quick win is just setting up a few core flows.

So you have a lot of flows that you can implement for a client, but just make sure that you

have your welcome series, that you have your browser abandonment, card abandonment, checkout

abandonment and like a post-purchase flow.

abandonment en zoals een post-aankoopstroom.

Those are like really basic flows that you should really have.

So those are a few quick wins and making sure that you're sending at least like two campaigns

So those are a few quick wins and making sure that you're sending at least two campaigns.

a week and making sure that you're just sending to like an engaged audience.

a week and making sure that you're only sending it to an engaged audience.

So not just to a full list because then your emails are probably landing in spam box

So not just to a full list because then your emails are probably landing in the spam box.

and then you're in a downward spiral and you don't want that.

And then you're in a downward spiral and you don't want that.

Got it.

Okay.

That makes sense.

That, that does some, that's some good points.

That, that makes sense, those are some good points.

And then let's say a brand already, you know, basically already has something.

And then let's say a brand already has something, you know, basically.

They already have like those flows.

They already have flows like those.

They're already a little bit more advanced.

How do you, how do you approach those brands?

How do you approach those brands?

Like what do you, what do you do with, with them?

If they, let's say for example, they already have flows, but they're just not getting the

best out of their email marketing.

They're, they're working with campaigns, working with black Friday, Christmas, all

They're, they're working with campaigns, working with Black Friday, Christmas, all.

those things.

Do you go in and then optimize it for them and then just, you know, adjust it for them

Do you go in and then optimize it for them and then just, you know, adjust it for them?

or how, how do you work with them?

Yeah.

So before working with a client, what we always do is run them through a 150 point checklist

So before working with a client, what we always do is run them through a 150 point checklist.

that we've made.

So, um, that goes over everything of email marketing.

So, um, that covers everything about email marketing.

So like campaigns, uh, flows, the copy, the design, uh, the deliverability, the list growth,

uh, segmentation, all, all these different things.

Because what we notice is that.

Often when we're on the sales calls, then brands are saying, oh yeah, we got our flows

Often when we're on sales calls, brands say, oh yeah, we have our flows.

already set up.

al ingericht.

But then you start looking inside the Klaviyo accounts, then you're seeing a welcome series

But then you start looking inside the Klaviyo accounts, then you're seeing a welcome series.

flow with just one or two emails.

flow met slechts één of twee e-mails.

Yeah.

That's not a welcome series flow.

Dat is geen welkom serie flow.

Your welcome series flow should have at least like five to seven emails.

Your welcome series flow should have at least five to seven emails.

And same goes for like, oftentimes what they're saying, um, yeah, we have an abandoned card

En hetzelfde geldt voor wat ze vaak zeggen, um, ja, we hebben een verlaten kaart.

sequence already set up.

They start looking inside the Klaviyo account and then you see that the trigger is checkout

They start looking inside the Klaviyo account and then you see that the trigger is checkout.

started.

So that means it's not an abandoned card sequence, it's an abandoned checkout sequence.

Those are two different things.

Dat zijn twee verschillende dingen.

So oftentimes when we start working with, with the clients and they're saying, yeah,

So vaak als we beginnen te werken met de klanten en ze zeggen, ja,

we already have our flow set up.

We already have our flow set up.

We start looking at their account and we just have to revamp the whole flow structure.

We beginnen met het bekijken van hun account en we moeten gewoon de hele flowstructuur opnieuw inrichten.

Like nine out of 10 times that's the case because, um, yeah, it's not set up in the

proper way.

They are getting some results, but oftentimes not the good results.

They are getting some results, but often not the good results.

So that's the first thing.

That's always the starting point for us because flows are like the backbone of email marketing.

Dat is altijd het uitgangspunt voor ons, want flows zijn als de ruggengraat van e-mailmarketing.

Uh, the second thing.

The second thing that we always do is looking at the list growth.

The second thing that we always do is look at the list growth.

Um, oftentimes when we start working with clients, they have like conversion rate of

Um, vaak wanneer we beginnen samen te werken met klanten, hebben ze een conversieratio van

their signup form to email list of like between the two to 4% that's like on average what

Their signup form for the email list is like between 2% to 4%, that's like on average what.

we see.

Um, so only two to 4% of the website traffic is converting inside the email list, which

Um, so only 2 to 4% of the website traffic is converting into the email list, which

is pretty low.

is vrij laag.

So we make sure that we increase that to like eight to 12% and just doing that, optimizing

So we make sure that we increase that to like eight to 12% and just doing that, optimizing.

the signup form and increasing the conversion rate would generate them so much more revenue

The signup form and increasing the conversion rate would generate them so much more revenue.

from their email list.

van hun e-maillijst.

Because their email list is simply growing so they could, they can get a lot more revenue

Omdat hun e-maillijst simpelweg groeit, kunnen ze veel meer omzet genereren.

out of it even with those bad flows.

So that's the second thing that we do.

And third of all, we make them a campaign calendar because again, what we often see

And thirdly, we create a campaign calendar for them because again, what we often see

is that people have a campaign calendar already or they haven't, they just send out some,

is that people already have a campaign calendar or they don't, they just send out some,

some random stuff.

wat random spul.

Uh, but oftentimes they're just giving away discounts all the time.

Uh, maar vaak geven ze de hele tijd gewoon kortingen weg.

That's just really easy and getting some revenue in.

Dat is gewoon echt gemakkelijk en zorgt voor wat inkomsten.

Um, so you just, yeah, wasting a lot of margins by giving away discounts all the time and the

Um, dus je verliest gewoon veel marge door constant kortingen te geven en de

way we like to work.

It's just, it's just a lot of work.

Leading with value, creating engagement with our email list, not giving away discounts

Leading with value, creating engagement with our email list, not giving away discounts.

all the time.

de hele tijd.

Of course we also have discounted emails, especially in Q4 now, Black Friday and stuff

Of course, we also have discounted emails, especially in Q4 now, Black Friday and stuff.

like that.

Uh, however, there was one client which we run Black Friday campaigns with, with no discount

Uh, however, there was one client with whom we ran Black Friday campaigns without any discount.

and still worked.

en nog steeds werkte.

So that was kind of cool to see.

So dat was een beetje cool om te zien.

So even without discounts, you can get good results on Black Friday because people think

So even without discounts, you can achieve good results on Black Friday because people think.

it's Black Friday, they're in the mood to buy something.

It's Black Friday, they're in the mood to buy something.

So, uh, but yeah, that's a side note.

Um, so, um, yeah, we like to lead with, with value.

Um, dus, um, ja, we willen graag beginnen met waarde.

We like to lead with, with value and engagement.

We like to lead with value and engagement.

So not giving away discounts all the time, like max once a month maybe, so not every

So not giving away discounts all the time, like a maximum of once a month maybe, so not every

single week.

Um, and that really creates getting good bond with our email list and that gets them a lot

Um, and that really helps to create a strong bond with our email list and that benefits them a lot.

more revenue down the line.

And we even see like reviews, um, of the specific brands where they say, Hey, this brand is

And we even see reviews, um, of the specific brands where they say, Hey, this brand is

so cool.

They have a really cool, uh, system of emails who gets really fun emails, stuff like that.

They have a really cool, uh, system of emails that gets really fun emails, stuff like that.

So that's actually really nice to see that the customers of our brands are getting compliments

So that's actually really nice to see that the customers of our brands are getting compliments.

on, uh, on the emails.

That they receive from, from, from the brand.

That's so awesome, man.

Dat is zo geweldig, man.

That's so awesome.

Dat is zo geweldig.

That's, that's, that's amazing to hear, man.

Dat is, dat is, dat is geweldig om te horen, man.

And you know, one, one thing that I'm currently thinking of when you, when you mentioned that

En je weet, één, één ding waar ik momenteel aan denk als je dat noemt.

you mentioned a lot of, so this is really amazing value.

So a meal is just, just popping off here, man.

So a meal is just, just happening here, man.

That's amazing.

Dat is geweldig.

Um, so one thing that I'm really curious to know, and I think my, some people might think

Um, dus één ding waar ik echt nieuwsgierig naar ben, en ik denk dat sommige mensen misschien denken

of this as well is when we talk about like meta ads and doing that as a service that

you usually talk about, like the retainers, the big retainers, you know, the whale clients,

all those things.

When we talk about email marketing, how like, like, like how to do like a monthly, like,

When we talk about email marketing, how, like, like how to do like a monthly, like,

you know, which is one of the questions I ask you when we, you know, got in touch back

You know, which is one of the questions I ask you when we, you know, got back in touch.

again, like recently it was, you know, how like a monthly retainer, like how do you present

Again, like recently it was, you know, how like a monthly retainer, like how do you present

that?

How do you create that and, and, and get that going?

Because I can imagine like, you know, with for us with ads, you know, we do ads, but

Omdat ik me kan voorstellen, zoals, weet je, voor ons met advertenties, weet je, we doen advertenties, maar

then for example, I also have, you know, a strategic referral partner in terms of like

building landing pages.

Mm-hmm.

Or a website.

Yeah.

And then it's like, okay, you created a website, webshop.

Then it's like SEO.

It's like a monthly retainer or like hosting is like a monthly small retainer.

It's like a monthly retainer, or hosting is like a small monthly retainer.

What is it like for email marketing and how could someone like position that?

What is it like for email marketing and how could someone position that?

Yeah.

So actually what I did until like a few weeks ago, I was just working performance based.

So actually what I did until like a few weeks ago, I was just working performance-based.

So that means that we just had a little set up fee to have some skin in the game for,

So that means that we just had a little setup fee to have some skin in the game for,

for the client that we're working with.

for the client that we are working with.

But we didn't work with a monthly retainer.

So we work performance based.

So we work based on performance.

So that means that we took a percentage of the revenue that we generated for our client.

So this basically was like a zero risk solution for the e-commerce brands that we were working

So this was basically a zero-risk solution for the e-commerce brands we were working with.

with because in the US there are a lot of email marketing agencies.

because in the US there are a lot of email marketing agencies.

So yeah, they're like, yeah, I mean, what makes you different?

So yeah, they’re like, yeah, I mean, what makes you different?

So yeah, I was thinking about it.

What makes me different besides like the quality that we deliver, but that's difficult to like

What makes me different besides, like, the quality that we deliver, but that's difficult to like.

show in like the first sales calls.

So I was like, yeah, but we also have like our performance fee structure where our goals,

Dus ik dacht, ja, maar we hebben ook onze prestatievergoedingstructuur waarin onze doelstellingen,

our goals and your goals are aligned because it's in our best benefit to generate you

Our goals and your goals are aligned because it's in our best interest to generate for you.

more revenue.

So we were performance based and it really worked well for over the last few years.

So we were performance-based and it really worked well for over the last few years.

But recently we changed to like a multi retainer with a guarantee that we have that you guarantee

But recently we switched to a multi-retainer format with a guarantee that you provide.

a certain amount of email revenue or increasing email revenue if it's like a bigger company.

And then we just work with like a monthly, monthly retainer.

And then we just work with a monthly, monthly retainer.

That's so awesome because you can definitely, you can track everything through Klaviyo.

Dat is zo geweldig, want je kunt zeker alles volgen via Klaviyo.

You can, you can see everything.

Yeah, exactly.

The issues that we're getting with ads is, you know, we're now using Klaviyo.

The issues that we're experiencing with ads are, you know, we're now using Klaviyo.

Yeah, exactly.

We're now using like triple wheel, right?

We gebruiken nu zoiets als een driewieler, toch?

Like, like all these like tools to track anything and bundle it in like one place.

But for Klaviyo, I guess you don't really have to do that, right?

Maar voor Klaviyo, denk ik dat je dat eigenlijk niet hoeft te doen, toch?

Or?

No, exactly.

So inside the Klaviyo dashboard, you can see your revenue from Klaviyo and then you

see the exact amount of revenue that you've generated.

But what we noticed in the last couple of months, there's more and more discussion on like,

But what we noticed in the last couple of months is that there is more and more discussion about,

yeah, is this attribution okay?

Yeah, is this attribution okay?

Because if I look in Google analytics, then I'm seeing a different number and stuff like

Because if I look in Google Analytics, then I see a different number and things like that.

that.

Because every single software is showing a different amount of revenue and with a different

attribution model, every software wants to claim their revenue.

So that's always the problem.

And that's one of the reasons why it's transitioned now back to like a monthly retainer.

En dat is een van de redenen waarom het nu weer is overgegaan naar een maandelijkse vergoeding.

Also because we have the case studies, the video testimonials and just the results that

back up our claim.

So we can actually charge them a good monthly retainer, but also just to prevent those discussions

So we can actually charge them a good monthly retainer, but also just to prevent those discussions.

with like, oh yeah, but this is right, this is not right.

So.

But yeah, in general, you can just see like the attributed revenue from Klaviyo.

Maar ja, in het algemeen kun je gewoon de toegeschreven omzet van Klaviyo zien.

Yeah.

The attributed revenue from Klaviyo on the dashboard.

Okay.

Yeah.

A hundred percent.

Okay.

That makes sense.

So yeah.

I hope that that gives a lot of clarity in terms of, you know, you know, the monthly

I hope that provides a lot of clarity in terms of, you know, the monthly.

retainer type of structure.

And what would you say works the best for you in terms of, because you're, you're, you're

only targeting the US then, I guess, right.

Alleen de VS targeten dan, denk ik, klopt?

In terms of like clients and.

Also European countries.

So we have some clients in the UK, also in France, Germany and now from Lituwa as well.

So we have some clients in the UK, also in France, Germany, and now from Lithuania as well.

So.

Netherlands as well?

No, no.

Stay away from that.

Stay away from.

That's awesome.

Dat is geweldig.

No Dutch clients, please.

No Dutch clients, man.

No Dutch clients.

So, okay.

So that makes a lot of sense, man.

That makes a lot of sense, man.

And what are kind of your, you know, because what you say, you, you, you know, you enjoy

working more as like a boutique agency or like a, you know, basically a, you know, grow

working more like a boutique agency or like a, you know, basically a, you know, grow

as much as you can, like balloon air, like hot balloon air, just pile up and just blow

up as much as you can type of agency.

Like what is kind of your preferred way of.

Of having the agency and why?

Or having the agency and why?

Yeah.

So that's an interesting question.

So dat is een interessante vraag.

That's something that I'm thinking about more and more in the last couple of months.

That's something that I've been thinking about more and more in the last couple of months.

Uh, honestly, when you're starting like the big, uh, benchmark that you want to hit, like

Uh, eerlijk gezegd, wanneer je begint met de grote, uh, benchmark die je wilt bereiken, zoals

the 10 K a month, that's like standard, but then you are at 10 K a month and I was expecting

it.

I was like, oh yeah, well I made it, you know?

Ik dacht, oh ja, nou heb ik het gemaakt, weet je wel?

Um, but then you're like, yeah, 10 K.

Um, maar dan denk je: ja, 10 K.

Yeah.

It's just 10 K.

Exactly.

It may sounds a bit weird if, if you hear this, but they are just setting new goals

It may sound a bit weird if you hear this, but they are just setting new goals.

and new goals and, um, but lately I'm, I'm actually thinking like, yeah, when am I truly

happy with, with results when I'm like, Hey, this is it.

You know?

Do you know?

Um, and I think right now I'm thinking like, yeah, around like the 50 K I think that that

Um, en ik denk dat ik op dit moment denk dat het ongeveer 50 K is, dat denk ik.

that's a good, um, space to be in with like a lean team being a boutique agent.

That's a good, um, space to be in with a lean team being a boutique agent.

Uh, not having like a lot of stress of a lot of clients that you have to manage, but

Uh, not having a lot of stress from many clients that you have to manage, but

just having like a lot of team members in your team who are doing all the service delivery,

just having a lot of team members in your team who are doing all the service delivery,

uh, not too big of a, uh, client roster.

Uh, niet een te grote, uh, klantenlijst.

Uh, I think, yeah, right now that that's like the point that I want to be in that's growing

Uh, ik denk, ja, op dit moment is dat als het punt waar ik wil zijn dat aan het groeien is.

even more that you have like need to have like a office or something like that.

even more that you have like need to have like an office or something like that.

That's definitely not the way I want to grow.

Dat is zeker niet de manier waarop ik wil groeien.

I know a lot of people like that idea of having like their own office and having like the

I know a lot of people like that idea of having their own office and having like the

team members inside.

teamleden binnen.

Uh, but yeah, I think like a boutique agency is the way, the way to go for me now.

Uh, maar ja, ik denk dat een boutique bureau de weg is, de weg die ik nu moet inslaan.

Got it.

Begrepen.

That makes a lot of sense.

And that's funny that you mentioned that because you know, for this year we've for, for our

agency, we've had less clients and the immediate month when we scaled back down from like 2530

Agency, we had fewer clients and the month immediately after we scaled back down from around 25 to 30.

like agents and real estate agents to like e-commerce and coaching, like, and like mid

last year, it was immediately like.

last year, it was immediately like that.

I don't know.

I don't want to work with so many clients.

Like I want to, why not just like my mindset was why not over deliver for the current clients

Like I want to, why not just like my mindset was why not overdeliver for the current clients.

that I have and get more from them instead of getting more clients on board that I need

to build a trust with.

And basically now I was just hopping on off, off a call from one of my clients before this.

And basically now I was just hopping off a call from one of my clients before this.

He's like a friend of mine.

Hij is als een vriend van mij.

He's like a, he's like a friend of mine.

Hij is als een, hij is als een vriend van mij.

Like I, I, I, I go to him, we talk, we drink coffee, it's like I'm a friend of his.

So.

And then I built a sales team.

Of course as a coach, I like about the sales team, uh, we're doing his ads, we're managing

Of course as a coach, what I like about the sales team is that we're doing their ads, we're managing.

his systems.

We're going to write his newsletters.

We are going to write his newsletters.

Like we're doing multiple things, but you're getting paid more.

So I think like the mindset, what you mentioned, like so interesting because I see so many

So I think, like the mindset you mentioned, is so interesting because I see so many.

people, oh, I want tank.

People, oh, I want a tank.

Like in the beginning you need, of course you need clients, you sign as many clients

Like in the beginning, you need, of course you need clients, you sign as many clients.

as you can.

And when you get to the stage and you want to go to like 50 or like a hundred, like immediately

And when you get to the stage and you want to go to like 50 or like a hundred, like immediately.

when we did that, we did more or perhaps like the first two months we did less because you

When we did that, we did more, or perhaps in the first two months we did less because you.

lose clients.

We had a new client.

And then after two months, two or three, it's like one client can get you more than 10 K.

It's like, all right, let me just have like eight clients or nine or max 10 clients.

Yeah.

Right.

But that's actually a nice one because again, there was also something that I was thinking

Maar dat is eigenlijk een leuke, want er was weer iets waar ik aan dacht.

about and also some, something that I noticed for myself and I think that's just a personal

thing is that, um, I mean a few years ago I was also in another course, a really famous

The thing is that, um, I mean a few years ago I was also in another course, a really famous one.

one.

I'm not going to name it.

Uh, but I think everyone knows it.

Yes.

Uh, yeah.

It was like getting like high retainers, high retainers, high retainers.

It was like getting high retainers, high retainers, high retainers.

That was like the goal, the thing.

And um, at the time I was like, oh yeah, awesome.

And, um, op dat moment dacht ik: oh ja, geweldig.

Just like you said, getting like 10 K retainer from one client.

Just like you said, getting like 10k retainer from one client.

That's awesome.

Dat is geweldig.

Uh, and it is.

But what I noticed is that back in the day that when I used to get like higher fees from

Maar wat ik merkte, is dat vroeger, wanneer ik hogere vergoedingen kreeg van

from our clients, I was also like, yeah, but what if the results drop and I don't get good

From our clients, I was also like, yeah, but what if the results drop and I don't get good.

results for them?

And when I decide to leave, then that's a big gap that I have to fill in with new clients.

So it also gives me some sort of stress that I was like, yeah, but what if this client

leaves because there's such a big gap in my, in my, in my revenue goal that I have.

So um, again, the same as I said before, I think I'm transitioning more and more to like

So, um, again, the same as I said before, I think I'm transitioning more and more to like

actually lower retainers, still like high retainers, but not like 10 Ks, um, but just

Eigenlijk lagere retainer tarieven, nog steeds zoals hoge retainer tarieven, maar niet zoals 10 K, um, maar gewoon

having some more clients where you know you can get them good results.

But I think there's like a sweet spot for e-commerce brands owners that they're like, Hey, if

Maar ik denk dat er een soort van zoete inval is voor eigenaren van e-commerce merken dat ze zoiets hebben van, hé, als

for example above the five, six K, then they start thinking, Oh, is this worth my money?

Even if you get them good results.

But I think that's just a psychological thing that they're like, Hey, is it worth my money

Maar ik denk dat dat gewoon een psychologisch iets is, dat ze denken: Hé, is het mijn geld waard?

every, every single month when they see that number on their bill, you know, and if it's

iedere, elke maand wanneer ze dat nummer op hun rekening zien, weet je, en als het

like under the six, five K, then they're thinking like, Oh yeah, that's okay.

Like under the six, five K, then they're thinking like, Oh yeah, that's okay.

That's normal.

So I think that's kind of the sweet spot to be in what I notice.

Dus ik denk dat dat een beetje de ideale plek is waar ik in zit, wat ik opmerk.

And again, it also not gives me the feeling.

And again, it doesn't give me the feeling either.

And I'm afraid to lose his client, which is not rational, but I mean, yeah, for the

En ik ben bang om zijn klant te verliezen, wat niet rationeel is, maar ik bedoel, ja, voor de

most part you think emotional.

For the most part, you think emotionally.

So that's a difficult part of it.

Of course.

Exactly.

I don't know if you have the same, that you're afraid to lose clients.

I don't know if you have the same feeling, that you're afraid of losing clients.

Yeah.

It's afraid of being losing of course the clients and, but that's the thing of having

It's afraid of losing clients, of course, but that's the thing about having.

like that boutique specific agency.

zoals die specifieke boutique-agency.

But what I noticed people, you know, where they go astray is they just have the retainer

Maar wat me opvalt aan mensen, weet je, waar ze de fout ingaan is dat ze alleen de retentie hebben.

and then that's it.

So what was really interesting, what you mentioned is you had that, you know, what I like to

do is that I, we start with like a.

What I do is that we start with like a.

Uh, either a set up fee, right?

Uh, ofwel een opstartvergoeding, toch?

Like for example, with email marketing, we do set up fee.

For example, with email marketing, we do have a setup fee.

Then it's like, okay, we, for the newsletters, you know, we charge like a specific amount

Dan is het zo van, oké, voor de nieuwsbrieven, weet je, rekenen we een specifiek bedrag.

that, that, you know, we do, but then it's like, okay, we, we fixed that.

Dat, dat, weet je, dat doen we, maar dan is het van, oké, we hebben dat opgelost.

Now this is running, but like you mentioned, email marketing can only do so much.

Now this is running, but as you mentioned, email marketing can only do so much.

So let me run your ads, let me get your ads going.

We get more traffic.

We scale up the business, but since we're doing this as well, Oh, you're having logistical

things as well.

dingen ook.

Which needs thinking of I have logistical connections.

Which needs to be considered, I have logistical connections.

Here we go.

Right.

Recht.

Because my other client has logistical connections.

Omdat mijn andere klant logistieke connecties heeft.

Here you go.

And then you start going into more of a, like I said, I go into a growth model where it's

En dan begin je meer in een, zoals ik al zei, ik ga in een groeimodel waar het is

more okay.

You're paying me that fee of three to five to six K, but you know, if you pay me this,

what if we go into wards, a monthly retainer plus a commission.

What if we go for a monthly retainer plus a commission?

Yeah.

But let's say this, let's say we do that and it goes well.

Maar laten we dit zeggen, laten we zeggen dat we dat doen en het goed gaat.

Then what I propose to them, I say, what would be even better is I see your business

Then what I propose to them, I say, what would be even better is I see your business.

as my business.

And when they hear that something like, I don't know, like when I say that to clients, I look

And when they hear something like, I don't know, like when I say that to clients, I look

at their face and they're like, yeah, man, yeah, let's do what we need that.

Op hun gezicht en ze zeggen: ja, man, ja, laten we doen wat we nodig hebben.

And they're like, and I'm like, and I'm like, yes, because it's important that we grow as

a team and that you have a right hand team to do this.

a team and that you have a right-hand team to do this.

And then I, you know, then we talk about like, for what I was telling you before this call,

En dan ik, weet je, dan praten we over zoals, voor wat ik je vertelde voordat dit gesprek,

we have a client of ours where we took over almost like their business and we're getting,

We have a client of ours where we have almost taken over their business and we are getting,

like, you know.

We need to get like five to 15% of, of the shares within the company.

We moeten ongeveer vijf tot vijftien procent van de aandelen binnen het bedrijf krijgen.

And if they're doing, you know, a million, like you're set, like, that's it.

En als ze, weet je, een miljoen doen, dan zit je goed, dat is het.

Like that's the only thing you need.

So I think there's like, for me, and I would love to hear your thoughts about that as well.

Dus ik denk dat er voor mij zoiets is, en ik zou graag ook jouw gedachten daarover willen horen.

You mean like the thoughts of like scaling in that way where you have limited clients,

You mean like the thoughts of scaling in that way where you have limited clients?

but you don't have like two clients where you're dependent on them, you have more, but

but you don't just have two clients that you depend on, you have more, but

you scale in a way where you're getting more out of your current clients instead of even

You scale in a way where you're getting more from your current clients instead of just maintaining.

like, I'm not, you know, for us outreach, like I don't do.

Like, I'm not, you know, for us outreach, like I don't do.

I don't do outreach like that much anymore.

It's like, I have these clients, I just get more and more from them every single month.

Like, but what are your thoughts on that?

Like, maar wat vind je daarvan?

Yeah, exactly.

So I asked you when you're starting, you're just doing like, like manual outreach, like

called email, Instagram, et cetera, et cetera.

called email, Instagram, etc., etc.

So yeah, what I noticed right now, most of our clients are just referrals from our current

So yeah, what I noticed right now, most of our clients are just referrals from our current ones.

clients.

And also what works great at this point is like strategic partnerships with our agencies.

So for example, one of our newest clients, he was saying to me.

So, for example, one of our newest clients was saying to me.

Yeah.

He was saying to me in his lecture at like, yeah, amazing job on the result that you got

He was saying to me in his lecture, like, yeah, amazing job on the result that you got.

for us.

voor ons.

We need more agencies like you.

So we're looking for a brand that, for an agency that does, that makes landing pages.

So we are looking for a brand that, for an agency that creates landing pages.

We're looking for agency that does like a meta ads and stuff like that.

We're looking for an agency that does meta ads and stuff like that.

So do you know someone with the same quality as yours?

So do you know someone with the same qualities as yours?

So then yeah, now, I now know quite a lot of people in the industry.

We're having a landing page agency.

We have a landing page agency.

We're having a meta ads agency.

We have a meta ads agency.

So I just referred them back to those people.

I get a referral fee every single month, and now my client gets better results.

I receive a referral fee every single month, and now my client gets better results.

He is happy.

My strategic partner also gets a fee as a new client is happy.

My strategic partner also receives a fee as a new client is satisfied.

The overall results for the brand is improving because they're now having better landing

The overall results for the brand are improving because they are now achieving better landing.

pages and better advertising, which I also benefit from with my email marketing.

pages en betere reclame, waar ik ook baat bij heb met mijn e-mailmarketing.

So it's like a win-win-win situation where I don't have to do like cold email outreach,

So it's like a win-win-win situation where I don't have to do cold email outreach.

which I'm still doing, but not as much as I was.

which I'm still doing, but not as much as I used to.

Yeah.

And the client is happy.

I have strategic partnerships that I get the clients from and I send clients to.

I have strategic partnerships from which I get clients and to which I send clients.

And yeah, so all it's just win-win-win.

And yeah, so it's all just win-win-win.

So I think that's really the way to go at your, at a certain point.

A hundred percent.

That's so amazing, man.

Dat is zo geweldig, man.

That's great.

Dat is geweldig.

So what are kind of your goals with your agency, like moving forward?

So what are your goals with your agency, like moving forward?

Like you mentioned, like the 50K, having a lean, like, you know, with a lean team in

As you mentioned, like the 50K, having a lean, like, you know, with a lean team in

that regard.

Like what are some of your goals?

Like, what are some of your goals?

Yeah.

So for next year, the goal is 50K.

Nice.

So.

That's like the biggest goal.

Dat is het grootste doel.

And also there are some sub-goals underneath there.

And also there are some sub-goals beneath that.

So I think the biggest thing for like early 2024 will be like the operations side and

Ik denk dat het grootste voor begin 2024 de operationele kant zal zijn en

like streamlining the process.

I think that's a big thing to optimize for because right now everything goes well.

Ik denk dat dat een groot iets is om op te optimaliseren, want op dit moment gaat alles goed.

Everything is pretty streamlined.

But I know it can be much better.

Maar ik weet dat het veel beter kan.

And when I start to scale even more, I know I run into problems with my current system.

And when I start to scale even more, I know I will encounter problems with my current system.

So it is like a big focus for early 2024.

And from there you had just scaling.

And from there you just had scaling.

And increasing like the revenue that we're getting for our clients, switching to like

the full retainer model and no performance fee anymore.

And yeah, focusing on like what makes me happy.

And yeah, focusing on what makes me happy.

So not only like growing in terms of revenue, but also in like the feeling of myself.

So not only growing in terms of revenue, but also in terms of how I feel about myself.

So not having stress of running a business or at least less stress, just enjoying the

So not having the stress of running a business or at least less stress, just enjoying the

process and just enjoying life.

process en gewoon van het leven genieten.

I mean, yeah, we're at the point that you should also enjoy life.

I mean, of course it's important to...

Yeah.

You put in a lot of time and effort into running an agency, but you also have to enjoy

You put in a lot of time and effort into running an agency, but you also have to enjoy it.

it.

Because like I said, at first you're like, oh, 10K, that's like the holy grail.

Omdat, zoals ik al zei, in het begin denk je, oh, 10K, dat is als de heilige graal.

And then you're like 20K, that's the holy grail.

Then it's 30K, then 40K.

So you're never truly happy, I think, if you don't think about for yourself what's like

So you're never truly happy, I think, if you don't think for yourself about what it's like.

the end goal for yourself.

And for me, like I said, that's like having less stress, having a team that's running

En voor mij is dat, zoals ik al zei, dat is als minder stress hebben, een team dat draait.

everything.

alles.

And for me, just to put in a few hours a day.

En voor mij, gewoon om een paar uur per dag te werken.

That's like the ideal situation.

Dat is zoals de ideale situatie.

And besides that, just enjoying life.

That makes sense, man.

And I hope to reach it next year.

And I hope to achieve it next year.

You're going to reach it, man.

You're going to go through it, man, 100%.

You're going to get through it, man, 100%.

It's all in your mind, man.

If you set the goal, you set it high enough and you truly believe in it, you can achieve

If you set the goal, you set it high enough and you truly believe in it, you can achieve it.

anything.

alles.

There's nothing that you can't achieve.

Er is niets wat je niet kunt bereiken.

You can achieve anything.

So on that note, you said having more fun, enjoying life, right?

Like enjoying.

Talk to us because it's, of course, a For Your Success podcast.

We talk a lot about the agency.

And I already mentioned to you, I want to talk a little bit more about combining relationships

And I already mentioned to you, I want to talk a little bit more about combining relationships.

with the agency.

Because the agency can be really a lonely type of business, sitting behind a laptop

Because the agency can really be a lonely type of business, sitting behind a laptop.

talking with your team.

And then, okay, I go on, right?

And then, okay, I continue, right?

Like what do I do with my day?

So talk to us about combining the agency in terms of relationships, personal life.

How do you do that?

How do you combine those two things?

Yeah, so for people, so I have a girlfriend for over the last 10 years now.

Yeah, so for people, I have had a girlfriend for over the last 10 years now.

So she has experience like the beginning of the agency and she's experienced everything

So she has experience from the beginning of the agency and she has experienced everything.

now.

So that's kind of fun.

And for your information, so June this year, we bought our first house.

And for your information, we bought our first house in June of this year.

Before that, we were in a rental apartment, which is one bedroom, a living room.

Before that, we were in a rental apartment, which has one bedroom and a living room.

So no second space to have like a home office.

So I was just working in the living room.

I did that for a few years.

So when I was having meetings, I was just sitting at the kitchen table and just doing

So when I was having meetings, I was just sitting at the kitchen table and just doing.

my meetings.

And then I was like, maybe you have to go away so I can just focus on the meeting.

En toen dacht ik: misschien moet je weggaan zodat ik me gewoon op de vergadering kan concentreren.

So that was kind of fun.

And we also have two dogs.

So it is also a good thing to know.

So while I was doing the meetings, the dogs were running around or they were also gone.

So while I was having the meetings, the dogs were running around or they were also gone.

So it was kind of difficult sometimes.

But since June of this year, we moved to our first house.

But since June of this year, we have moved to our first house.

And now I have my own office over here.

So that definitely improved like the business in general, but also just the way how my girlfriend

thinks about me running a business because, yeah, I can completely understand.

For her, this is a totally different world.

She's just working every single day just at the company and just living the standard life,

Ze werkt elkeDAG gewoon bij het bedrijf en leeft gewoon het standaard leven.

to be honest.

It's not meant in a negative way.

Het is niet negatief bedoeld.

Yeah.

It's not meant in a negative way or something like that.

It's not meant in a negative way or anything like that.

So especially in the beginning, it was kind of difficult for her, I think, because she

doesn't understand, for example, when it's late at night, we're watching Netflix or something

like that.

Then I grab my laptop because I had a message on my phone from the Slack channel and I have

to send a message or send this email or do this or do that.

Then sometimes she was like, ah, we're watching a movie, you know.

So yeah, that caused some fights.

But it's not really good for my girlfriend, why not?

Maar het is niet echt goed voor mijn vriendin, waarom niet?

And she's asked me if I'm really interested in doing something.

I told her no, she said no.

I said no because I think you're a little lazy, I don't want to go there.

I said no because I think you’re a little lazy, I don’t want to go there.

So that's why I'm going to go there.

But yeah, it's not made that big of a deal between us.

Maar ja, het is niet zo'n groot probleem tussen ons.

But really, yeah, I think that's why it's important to bullshit about me.

But really, yeah, I think that's why it's important to talk nonsense about me.

I'm very much into this kind of stuff.

Ik ben erg geïnteresseerd in dit soort dingen.

And she knows what the end result is of me running an agency, so I think she kind of like

And she knows what the end result is of me running an agency, so I think she kind of likes it.

that.

Yeah.

But yeah, absolutely, you need to make time for your girlfriend as well and for the dogs

Maar ja, absoluut, je moet ook tijd maken voor je vriendin en voor de honden.

that we have.

But I also think that's a good thing because otherwise you're just grinding every single

Maar ik denk ook dat het een goede zaak is, want anders ben je gewoon elke keer aan het zwoegen.

Ja, maar je moet ook tijd voor je vriendin maken en voor de honden die we hebben.

Yes, but you also need to make time for your girlfriend and for the dogs we have.

Maar ik denk ook dat dat een goede ding is, want anders rijd je gewoon elke dag en ga je niet weg van je offeren en ben je puur geconcentreerd op je bedrijf.

But I also think that's a good thing, because otherwise you just drive every day and don't move away from your sacrifices and are purely focused on your business.

En soms is het ook goed om gewoon buiten te gaan, naar vrienden en familie te gaan en gewoon plezier te hebben, op vakantie te gaan, met je honden te gaan, zoiets.

And sometimes it's good to just go outside, visit friends and family, and just have fun, go on vacation, take your dogs, something like that.

Dat is ook behoorlijk belangrijk voor je mentale state of mind.

That is also quite important for your mental state of mind.

Dus je hebt iets heel interessants gezegd, tijd maken.

So you said something very interesting, making time.

Hoe maak je tijd?

How do you make time?

Want ik heb mijn verhaal gehad en het is moeilijk, man, om het te zeggen.

Because I've had my story and it's hard, man, to say it.

Het is moeilijk om tijd te maken.

It's difficult to make time.

Je weet, waar je de dopamine-hits van betalingen krijgt of zoals, je weet, je wilt gewoon gaan, man.

You know, where you get the dopamine hits from payments or like, you know, you just want to go, man.

Je wilt gewoon niet stoppen, je wilt gewoon gaan, gaan, gaan, gaan.

You just don't want to stop, you just want to go, go, go, go.

Dus, tijd maken.

So, make time.

Hoe maakt iemand tijd, Emiel, voor de mensen in zijn leven?

How does someone make time, Emiel, for the people in their life?

Ja, ik denk dat het voor de situatie en voor elke persoon bepaald is.

Yes, I think it depends on the situation and on each person.

Ik bedoel, ja, ik zei eerder, voordat we deze podcast wilden runnen, dat december normaal gesproken een heel chill maand is,

I mean, yes, I said earlier, before we wanted to run this podcast, that December is usually a very chill month,

omdat veel mensen uit de Aave zijn, vooral in de tweede deel van december.

because many people are out of the Aave, especially in the second half of December.

Dus normaal is dat de periode dat ik gewoon meer leuke dingen doe met mijn vrienden en zo, dus dat is een beetje makkelijk.

So normally that's the time when I just do more fun things with my friends and stuff, so that's a bit easier.

Dit jaar is het een heel ander spel, dus ja, het is nog steeds een drukke maand.

This year it's a whole different game, so yes, it's still a busy month.

Maar ja, je hoeft er echt tijd voor te maken, dus in het algemeen, ik hou ervan om niet in de weekenden te werken.

But yes, you really need to make time for it, so in general, I love not working on weekends.

Helaas werkt dat niet altijd zo, en gewoon zorgen dat, vooral voor sales calls, dat je een strikte schedule hebt in je kantoor, dat helpt absoluut.

Unfortunately, that doesn't always work like that, and just making sure that, especially for sales calls, you have a strict schedule in your office, absolutely helps.

Dus niet zorgen dat mensen een call kunnen schakelen met je, zoals, de hele dag lang.

So don’t worry about people being able to call you, like, all day long.

Dus je hebt een strikte tijd, je hebt de tijd om je eten te hebben, je hebt de tijd om een weg te gaan of zoiets, dat helpt absoluut.

So you have a strict time, you have time to have your food, you have time to go somewhere or something like that, that absolutely helps.

Maar ja, anders dan dat, het is nog steeds een strikte, soms denk ik, ja, dat is gewoon hoe het is.

But yes, other than that, it is still strict; sometimes I think, yes, that’s just how it is.

En ja, het belangrijkste is dat je een vriend hebt die het wel begrijpt, ze is niet altijd blij met het, maar in het algemeen begrijpt het dat ik dit gewoon leuk vind, het is een hobby voor mij, het is belangrijk voor mij, en ze begrijpt dat.

And yes, the most important thing is that you have a friend who understands it, she is not always happy about it, but in general, she understands that I just enjoy this, it's a hobby for me, it matters to me, and she understands that.

En dat is denk ik het grootste ding, dat je je niet slecht voelt over jezelf voor niet de aandacht te geven aan je vrienden, bijvoorbeeld.

And that is, I think, the biggest thing, that you don't feel bad about yourself for not giving attention to your friends, for example.

Ja, ik denk dat dat het belangrijkste is.

Yes, I think that is the most important thing.

Het is een Fucking

It is a fucking

tones хорошem capacity.

Tones good capacity.

I changed.

To fm.

Ex curve from actually works like a normal job and then you are the entrepreneur and that's what's like.

The ex-curve actually works like a normal job and then you are the entrepreneur and that's what it's like.

I sens like in, in, you know, like I said my previous, like I said, my previous work so I realized

I sense like in, in, you know, like I said my previous, like I said, my previous work so I realized.

I think that, still a beautiful thing.

I think that's still a beautiful thing.

Like, what about with you and so on.

Like, what about you and so on.

I with you want, I'm out there.

I want you, I'm out there.

relationships like it was always it was like an issue because they didn't

Relationships were always an issue because they didn't.

understand and I was always explaining myself like oh this is a reason why this

I understand and I was always explaining myself like oh this is a reason why this.

reason why this but when you communicate clearly which you know you're you're of

Reason why this, but when you communicate clearly, which you know you're aware of.

course doing it then it works then you can make anything work you know as long

Course doing it then it works then you can make anything work you know as long

as you were building together for with the same goal now you have the house you

As you were building together for the same goal, now you have the house you.

know we have the dogs also there so like that makes a lot of sense I think I

I know we have the dogs there too, so that makes a lot of sense, I think.

think just a lot of ac owners or just like entrepreneurs you know watching

think just a lot of air conditioning owners or just like entrepreneurs you know watching

this that I know that I'll speak with they have issues you know doing that

This, that I know, that I'll speak with, they have issues, you know, doing that.

yeah they really have issues doing that yeah it's a big challenge for them and

also I think and that's not meant in a bad way but I think if I have didn't had

Also, I think, and that's not meant in a bad way, but I think if I hadn't had

a girlfriend my agency would be far further online there will be a lot

A girlfriend, my agency would be much further online; there will be a lot.

bigger already I know that for sure because obviously when you have

girlfriend sometimes you have to say okay I'm not gonna do this meeting I'm

Girlfriend, sometimes you have to say okay, I'm not going to do this meeting. I'm

just gonna go to

the movie with you something like that sometimes you do have to choose for that

The movie with you, something like that, sometimes you do have to choose for that.

option just for your mental state of mind and for your relationship of course

so so honestly it does have some implications for for for agency but I

So, honestly, it does have some implications for agency, but I...

think that's just okay I mean we work to make money to have a good life we don't

I think that's just okay, I mean we work to make money to have a good life, we don’t.

work to work and to make money and do nothing with it so you have to enjoy

Work to work and make money and do nothing with it so you have to enjoy.

life as well as also important so yeah it does cost you something but I think

life is important as well, so yes, it does cost you something, but I believe

the return is even better so that makes sense yeah that makes sense I think that's

The return is even better so that makes sense yeah that makes sense I think that's

what makes sense when you say good life what you know I told you before the

What makes sense when you say good life what you know I told you before the

podcast you know I always talk with people about like the digital nomad and

or the digital settler or the you know of course with having a house being a

or the digital settler or you know of course with having a house being a

digital settler like that's what I like to enjoy as well like you know my right

Digital settler, that's what I like to enjoy as well, you know my right.

hand person he uh right hand man he we're now you know making things work

Handperson, he uh right-hand man, he we’re now you know making things work.

like in the emirates and all those things I don't know I think I told you

like yeah you know when we spoke and uh he's saying he's sitting there and he's

similar to me and he says man I don't

I'm never I don't want to travel man I just want to sit in one place just my

Ik ben nooit, ik wil niet reizen, man, ik wil gewoon op één plek zitten, gewoon mijn.

work and leave me alone right so but what are your like thoughts about like

Work and leave me alone, right? So, what are your thoughts about that?

the entire like digital Nomad type of thing yeah yeah what do you think it's

the entire digital nomad type of thing yeah yeah what do you think it is

not my cup of tea I think because I'm like all the way in the beginning we're

Not my cup of tea, I think, because I'm like all the way at the beginning.

saying I'm like introvert so I'm not like the outgoing type who goes to Bali

Saying I'm like an introvert, so I'm not the outgoing type who goes to Bali.

and makes connections all the time and uh yeah you know go to parties all the

time and stuff like that so I'm not that kind of person so for me it's quite easy

tijd en dat soort dingen, dus ik ben niet zo'n persoon, dus voor mij is het vrij gemakkelijk.

life I mean like the idea in general um it's interesting that you just go like

Life, I mean, like the idea in general, um, it's interesting that you just go like...

in the winter I mean it's shitty weather over here that you go to to a nice sunny

In the winter, I mean it's terrible weather over here that you want to go to a nice sunny place.

country or something like that yeah that kind of will be nice but obviously yeah

land of iets dergelijks ja dat zou wel leuk zijn maar begrijpelijk ja

in my situation yeah that doesn't make a whole lot of sense so um yeah and I think

In mijn situatie ja, dat maakt niet veel zin, dus um ja en ik denk

like like you mentioned so I think just having one strict place where you work

Like you mentioned, I think just having one strict place where you work.

and just focus on your business it gives you a lot better results in general

compared to like digital Nomad life where

vergeleken met het leven als digitale nomade waar

you work for a couple of hours and then go to the beach and have fun actually that's great

You work for a couple of hours and then go to the beach and have fun, actually that's great.

and again you have to enjoy life as well so maybe the growth of your agency goes a little bit uh

and again you have to enjoy life as well so maybe the growth of your agency slows down a bit, uh

less than than you would hope for but if it gives you the return that you want like a happy life

Less than you would hope for, but if it gives you the return that you want, like a happy life.

then definitely go with it but um yeah it's not my cup of tea to be honest it's just so difficult

Then definitely go for it, but um yeah it's not my cup of tea to be honest, it's just so difficult.

man it's difficult to be to work you know four hours and then just go to because it's I always

Man, it's difficult to work for four hours and then just go to... because it's always...

like I can get more out of myself I can just be I could just be working instead of you know doing

Like I can get more out of myself I can just be I could just be working instead of you know doing.

this and I think it's also what you mentioned like this is a hobby of mine like I I'd rather

Dit en ik denk dat het ook is wat je noemde, zoals dit een hobby van mij is, zoals ik liever.

I like last week for example I was with my girlfriend that was to like a Christmas market on

I liked last week; for example, I was with my girlfriend at a Christmas market.

like a Tuesday I believe it wouldn't be quiet it wasn't but okay uh but uh so I was there and

Like a Tuesday I believe it wouldn't be quiet it wasn't but okay uh but uh so I was there and

Ik werk normaal gesproken op een woensdag, maar we waren daar.

I usually work on a Wednesday, but we were there.

Je kijkt altijd naar je telefoon, zijn er behoorlijke berichten?

You're always looking at your phone, are there any decent messages?

Je denkt altijd, ik moet naar huis, ik moet werken.

You always think, I have to go home, I have to work.

Je bent zo gewend aan het werk, je geniet ervan.

You are so used to the work, you enjoy it.

Dat is soms ook een beetje moeilijk, dat je niet helemaal in het moment bent.

That is sometimes a bit difficult, that you are not completely in the moment.

Dat is nog steeds iets met wat ik problemen heb.

That is still something I have problems with.

Dat is een interessant aspect van een organisatie.

That is an interesting aspect of an organization.

Mediteer je?

Do you meditate?

Niet meer. Ik deed het.

No more. I did it.

Maar ik wilde er geen tijd voor maken, om eerlijk te zijn.

But I didn't want to make time for it, to be honest.

Ik ook, man.

Me too, man.

Dat is waarom ik je wilde vragen.

That's why I wanted to ask you.

Ik hoor altijd van mensen, je mediteerde altijd.

I always hear from people, you always meditated.

Nu is het gewoon, oké, ga, ga, ga, ga, ga, ga.

Now it's just, okay, go, go, go, go, go, go.

Ik denk dat er ook voordelen zijn.

I think that there are also advantages.

Maar ook met wat je net zei.

But also with what you just said.

Ik denk dat veel entrepeneurs hetzelfde hebben, zoals ik.

I think that many entrepreneurs have the same thing, like me.

Het enige wat ik zie, is dat ik één dag af heb.

The only thing I see is that I have one day off.

Gewoon het uitbalanceren op een zondag.

Just the balancing out on a Sunday.

Eén dag af hebben.

One day off.

Of zaterdagavond en dan zondag.

On Saturday night and then Sunday.

Dan die twee dagen, of één en een halve dag.

Then those two days, or one and a half days.

De energie die ik van die dagen krijg, niet in de kantoor zijn,

The energy I get from those days, not being in the office,

of in de huishouding,

or in the household,

geeft me zoveel meer energie en clariteit.

gives me so much more energy and clarity.

De week erna. Het is gek.

The week after. It's strange.

En toen zei ik, weet je wat, ik ga dit blijven.

And then I said, you know what, I'm going to keep this.

Dit wordt mijn standaard nu.

This will be my standard now.

Want je kunt altijd meer doen.

Because you can always do more.

Maar je gaat gewoon...

But you just go...

En ik heb het meerdere keer gehad.

And I've had it several times.

Vier keer, bijna bijna bij een burn-out.

Four times, almost almost at a burnout.

In de afgelopen vijf jaar.

In the past five years.

Ik heb het zo veel gepusht.

I pushed it so much.

Dat er een beperking was.

That there was a limitation.

En dan heb je één maand dat je moet terugkomen.

And then you have one month that you have to come back.

En dan ga je weer terug.

And then you go back again.

En dan denk ik, ik doe zeven dagen weer.

And then I think, I’ll do seven days again.

Als je iets niet hebt geleerd.

If you haven't learned something.

Ik denk dat het één dag af is echt...

I think it will be finished in one day, really...

Dan heb je veel meer energie.

Then you have a lot more energy.

Je bent veel meer benieuwd om weer te werken.

You are much more eager to work again.

En een grotere aspect.

And a larger aspect.

Ik denk dat het ook een goede idee is.

I think it's a good idea too.

Om op een vakantie te gaan.

To go on a vacation.

Elke paar maanden.

Every few months.

Want wat ik zie is dat...

Because what I see is that...

Een paar maanden geleden waren we in Zwitserland.

A few months ago we were in Switzerland.

Voor twee weken.

For two weeks.

En dan de eerste week.

And then the first week.

Oh, dit is leuk.

Oh, this is nice.

En eigenlijk elke dag.

And actually every day.

Ik werkte 30 minuten, 60 minuten per dag.

I worked 30 minutes, 60 minutes a day.

Gewoon om de generale dingen te doen.

Just to do the general things.

En het team helpen en zo.

And help the team and so on.

Maar verder, het was een volledige vakantie.

But other than that, it was a complete holiday.

En de eerste week denk je, dit is echt leuk.

And in the first week you think, this is really fun.

Maar de tweede week.

But the second week.

Dan krijg je een heleboel nieuwe ideeën voor je bedrijf.

Then you'll get a whole lot of new ideas for your business.

Je wilt dit doen, je wilt dat doen.

You want to do this, you want to do that.

Dus je krijgt een heleboel nieuwe energie.

So you get a whole lot of new energy.

En na tien dagen of zo...

And after ten days or so...

Ik dacht, ik wil terug gaan.

I thought, I want to go back.

En weer werken.

And again working.

Omdat je weer volledig geënergiseerd bent.

Because you are fully energized again.

Je hebt nieuwe ideeën.

You have new ideas.

Voor mij persoonlijk...

For me personally...

Helpt het zeker om op vakantie te gaan.

It definitely helps to go on vacation.

En gewoon nieuwe energie te krijgen.

And just to get new energy.

Nieuwe ideeën.

New ideas.

Het is alsof je één stap terug gaat.

It's like you're taking one step back.

En twee stappen verder gaat.

And takes two steps further.

Door te hebben...

By having...

Een nieuwe vakantie.

A new vacation.

En nieuwe ideeën voor je bedrijf.

And new ideas for your business.

Ik denk dat is ook waar een relatie in komt.

I think that's also where a relationship comes in.

Als je iemand hebt die...

If you have someone who...

Het verandert.

It changes.

Het levert uit.

It pays off.

Dat is geweldig.

That is awesome.

Ik heb de laatste paar vragen voor jou.

I have the last few questions for you.

En dan gaan we af.

And then we go down.

We hebben al een uur gedaan.

We have already been at it for an hour.

We hebben altijd...

We always have...

We hebben één podcast.

We have one podcast.

Met een van onze goede vrienden.

With one of our good friends.

Het duurde drie en een half uur.

It took three and a half hours.

We gaan het niet zo maken.

We're not going to do it that way.

Ik ook.

Me too.

Het zal lang zijn.

It will take a long time.

Een ding dat ik voor jou heb.

One thing I have for you.

Wanneer we praten over de business.

When we talk about the business.

En vooral de agensie.

And especially the agency.

Waar zie je de markt?

Where do you see the market?

Ik wil gewoon op je hoofd kijken.

I just want to look at your head.

Omdat je iemand bent die echt actief is.

Because you are someone who is truly active.

Hoe zie je de markt...

How do you see the market...

veranderen tot...

change to...

2024, 2025?

Wat denk je...

What do you think...

gaat veranderen in de agensie?

is going to change in the agency?

Of in het algemeen de online ruimte?

Or in general the online space?

Waar zie je het...

Where do you see it...

Ja, dus...

Yes, so...

Ik denk voor de agensies...

I think for the agencies...

Het hangt er ook af van...

It also depends on...

als je het over de Duitse markt...

if you are talking about the German market...

Want de Duitse markt is...

Because the German market is...

De Duitse markt...

The German market...

is waar de Amerikaanse markt...

is where the American market...

twee, drie jaar geleden was.

two, three years ago was.

In het begin zei je...

At the beginning, you said...

dat de e-mailmarktenagenten...

that the email marketing agents...

geen groot ding zijn in Nederland.

not be a big deal in the Netherlands.

Maar in de VS zijn er veel e-mailmarktenagenten.

But in the US, there are many email marketing agents.

Dus de eerste ding...

So the first thing...

dat ik verwacht in de komende jaren...

that I expect in the coming years...

is dat er veel e-mailmarktenagenten zijn in Nederland.

There are many email marketing agents in the Netherlands.

Dus dat is de eerste ding.

So that is the first thing.

De tweede ding denk ik...

The second thing I think...

een van de belangrijkste dingen...

one of the most important things...

is persoonlijke branding.

is personal branding.

Dus dat is iets waar ik veel focus op had.

So that's something I was focusing on a lot.

Vooral de tweede deel van dit jaar.

Especially the second half of this year.

Dus op Twitter, op TikTok...

So on Twitter, on TikTok...

YouTube video's, dat soort dingen.

YouTube videos, that sort of thing.

En klanten te krijgen via je persoonlijke brand.

And to get clients through your personal brand.

Ik denk dat dat zeker helpt.

I think that definitely helps.

Want wat je meer en meer ziet...

Because what you see more and more...

met uitbreidingmethodes zoals...

with expansion methods such as...

e-mail.

email.

Het is veel moeilijker voor je...

It is much harder for you...

om uitbreiding te maken...

to make an expansion...

met een groot aantal bedrijven.

with a large number of companies.

Met de nieuwe behoeften...

With the new needs...

van Gmail en Yahoo.

from Gmail and Yahoo.

Ze geven veel meer e-mails...

They give a lot more emails...

naar de spambox.

to the spam box.

Dus je krijgt minder en minder resultaten...

So you're getting fewer and fewer results...

met e-mail.

by email.

Dus je moet verschillende technieken gebruiken...

So you have to use different techniques...

om je klanten te krijgen.

to get your customers.

En ik denk dat de belangrijkste manier...

And I think that the main way...

persoonlijke branding zou zijn...

personal branding would be...

en referenties krijgen.

and get references.

Gewoon zorgen dat je servicedelivery...

Just make sure that your service delivery...

en strategische partnerschappen...

and strategic partnerships...

samen met het bouwen van een persoonlijke brand...

together with building a personal brand...

dat is de manier...

that's the way...

om in 2024...

to in 2024...

tenminste in de VS en misschien...

at least in the US and maybe...

twee, drie jaar daarna in Nederland ook.

two or three years later in the Netherlands as well.

Dat maakt zin man.

That makes sense, man.

Dat maakt zin.

That makes sense.

Ik zou zelfs zeggen dat het vier, vijf jaar is.

I would even say it's four, five years.

Soms kijk ik zelfs naar de markt.

Sometimes I even look at the market.

Het is gek.

It's crazy.

Maar dat maakt veel zin.

But that makes a lot of sense.

Dat is een interessante inzicht.

That is an interesting insight.

Ik zie dat je veel boeken hebt achter je.

I see that you have many books behind you.

En mensen weten dat ik...

And people know that I...

veel boeken heb.

I have many books.

Wat is er een boek...

What is a book...

dat iemand niet zou weten?

that someone wouldn't know?

Niet zoals je normaal gezien denkt...

Not as you normally think...

dat je rich wordt en zo.

that you become rich and so on.

Maar wat is er een boek...

But what is a book...

dat iemand die dit kijkt...

that someone who is watching this...

niet zou weten...

wouldn't know...

maar dat je geniet van te lezen?

but that you enjoy reading?

Vier uur werkweek?

Four-hour workweek?

Is dat origineel?

Is that original?

Dat is origineel.

That is original.

Ik weet het niet man.

I don't know, man.

Laat me even kijken.

Let me take a look.

Ja.

Yes.

Ik ga er een nemen.

I'm going to take one.

Ja, ga maar.

Yes, go ahead.

Ik zie een paar goede boeken.

I see a few good books.

Ik herken de boek, zelfs als het een blokje is.

I recognize the book, even if it is a block.

Ik denk deze.

I think this one.

Ik weet niet of je het kunt zien.

I don't know if you can see it.

Dit is Never Lose a Customer Again.

This is Never Lose a Customer Again.

Van Joey Coleman.

From Joey Coleman.

Het is een heel goed boek.

It is a very good book.

Het is een boek over...

It's a book about...

het bouwen van loyaliteit...

building loyalty...

bij je klanten.

at your customers.

Zodat ze de beste ervaring kunnen hebben.

So that they can have the best experience.

Van het onboarden...

From the onboarding...

Dus ja, dit was een heel goed boek.

So yes, this was a very good book.

Dat helpt mijn agentie.

That helps my agency.

En in termen van...

And in terms of...

persoonlijke ontwikkeling...

personal development...

moet ik even kijken.

I need to take a look.

De standaard boeken over mindset...

The standard books on mindset...

Atomic Habits...

was een heel sterk boek.

was a very strong book.

Want vaak als je boeken leest...

Because often when you read books...

over mindset en habit...

about mindset and habit...

is het heel generiek.

it is very generic.

En dat geeft je advies waar...

And that gives you advice on where...

in mijn mening...

in my opinion...

je straks kunt gebruiken.

you can use later.

Dat helpt me...

That helps me...

bij het bouwen van die goede habit's.

in building those good habits.

En...

And...

het veranderen van je mindset in het algemeen.

changing your mindset in general.

En ik was aan het praten over het.

And I was talking about it.

Maar eigenlijk de vier uur werkweek.

But actually the four-hour workweek.

Ik denk dat dat was...

I think that was...

een van de eerste boeken die ik liet lezen.

one of the first books I had read.

En ja...

And yes...

dat was de startpunt voor mij...

that was the starting point for me...

op het bouwen van het bedrijf.

on building the company.

Met het dropshipping bedrijf...

With the dropshipping company...

en zoiets.

and something like that.

Wat ik al zei in het begin...

What I already said in the beginning...

dat je niet moet worden betaald...

that you should not be paid...

op een uurlijke basis.

on an hourly basis.

Maar gewoon op de kwaliteit die je geeft.

But just on the quality that you provide.

Op de resultaten die je geeft.

On the results you provide.

En de vier uur werkweek...

And the four-hour workweek...

is niet het concept van vier uur per week.

is not the concept of four hours per week.

Ik denk niet dat dat echt mogelijk is.

I don’t think that is really possible.

Misschien, maar ik denk het niet.

Maybe, but I don't think so.

Maar gewoon...

But just...

het mindset erachter...

the mindset behind it...

en het denken over de mogelijkheden...

and thinking about the possibilities...

dat werkt voor mij.

That works for me.

Thumbs up.

Duimen omhoog.

Waarom is het een thumbs up?

Why is it a thumbs up?

Het is omdat...

It is because...

het is een nieuwe Mac-featuur.

It is a new Mac feature.

Je hebt de groene...

You have the green...

naar boven op je Mac...

up on your Mac...

een groene ding...

a green thing...

met een video.

with a video.

En als je erop klikt, klik je op reacties.

And if you click on it, you click on comments.

Dat zal de reacties laten zien.

That will show the reactions.

Dus als je eraf klikt...

So if you click off...

naar boven...

upwards...

Het is allemaal hart, man.

It's all heart, man.

Het is allemaal over liefde.

It's all about love.

Het is allemaal over liefde, man.

It's all about love, man.

Bijna februari.

Almost February.

Nee, dat is het niet.

No, that's not it.

Ik moet eerlijk zijn.

I have to be honest.

Een vraag is voor iedereen...

A question is for everyone...

en dat is een interessante vraag.

And that is an interesting question.

Ik zou het graag willen horen...

I would like to hear it...

wat je antwoord op de vraag is.

what your answer to the question is.

De vraag is als volgt...

The question is as follows...

als jij 80 jaar oud ben...

if you are 80 years old...

Gerwaakt.

Woken.

In ieder geval in goede gezondheid.

In any case, in good health.

Laten we zeggen dat je 80 jaar oud bent.

Let's say you are 80 years old.

Wat is één ding dat je...

What is one thing that you...

je 80-jarige zelf...

your 80-year-old self...

er zelf aan kracht vindt...

finds strength in it...

dat je hebt gedaan...

that you have done...

misschien een risico dat je hebt aangegeven...

maybe a risk that you have indicated...

dat je het hebt bereikt.

that you have achieved it.

always ask this question is because you know people always like elder people you know you

The reason I always ask this question is that you know people tend to like older individuals, you know.

see those videos like other people say oh i regret not having done this yeah i get not having done

I see those videos where other people say, "Oh, I regret not having done this." Yeah, I understand not having done it.

that what would be it could be one or two things or multiple things what could be something that

That what could be could be one or two things or multiple things that could be something that.

or something that you've already done so far i'm just curious to know what would that would be

or something that you've already done so far I'm just curious to know what that would be

what would be one or two or multiple things that your eight-year-old self would look back on that

What would be one or two or multiple things that your eight-year-old self would look back on?

you would be proud of that you would have done yeah so i think starting a business like at first

You would be proud of what you did, yeah, so I think starting a business, like at first.

i was like having the safety of just working for a boss you know getting your your salary every

I was like having the security of just working for a boss, you know, getting your salary every month.

single month that was like the thing for me in the beginning just having that that safety safety net

Single month that was like the thing for me in the beginning just having that safety net.

especially in the netherlands of course uh but yeah taking that step in starting your business

especially in the Netherlands of course uh but yeah taking that step in starting your business

getting started and building all the way up i think that's when i'm 80 and i'm really thinking

back about that that i'm just proud that i took that uh that decision to to get started with it

Back to the fact that I'm just proud that I made that, uh, decision to get started with it.

even when like uh family friends were like yeah okay

they were like oh yeah probably after a year he's he's done and um he's just back to his regular job

They were like, oh yeah, probably after a year he's done and he's just back to his regular job.

or something like that so i think they that i would be proud on that uh a second of all that

or something like that so I think they that I would be proud of that uh second of all that

also take the time in like um yeah just go on holidays and stuff like that like enjoying life

also take the time to just go on holidays and stuff like that, like enjoying life

i think like for our work week there was like a name for it i don't know anymore it was like

I think there was a name for our work week, but I can't remember it anymore. It was something like...

uh instead of like retiring uh after your your 65th um

Uh, instead of retiring, uh, after your 65th, um.

uh micro retirements i think it was like that micro requirements yeah yeah um so going on a

uh micro pensions, I think it was like that, micro requirements, yeah yeah um so going on a

holiday every few months or so and just enjoy life because i mean if you're 65 then you maybe

holiday every few months or so and just enjoy life because I mean if you're 65 then you maybe

maybe you're old and you're your health is not good and then you have the money but you don't

Maybe you're old and your health is not good, and then you have the money but you don't.

have the energy and yeah then you have the time and the money but you don't have the energy so

you have the energy and yeah then you have the time and the money but you don't have the energy so

where what can you do so i think i'm just and when i'm 80 i'm just happy that once i was just fed i was

Where what can you do, so I think I'm just and when I'm 80, I'm just happy that once I was just fed I was.

good health had the money at the time that i did the fun stuff as well i think that's just really

Good health had the money at the time that I did the fun stuff as well, I think that's just really.

important to to to keep in mind to enjoy life because it can be over in a split second 100%

Important to keep in mind to enjoy life because it can be over in a split second 100%.

man that's such a great message that's a great message a strong message and emil it's been um

Man, dat is zo'n geweldige boodschap. Dat is een geweldige boodschap, een sterke boodschap en Emil, het is geweest um...

it's been a valuable call man it's been a really valuable call thank you podcast thank you so much

It's been a valuable call man, it's been a really valuable call, thank you podcast, thank you so much.

for being here and finally just one thing that i wanted to also give you to mention if e-commerce

For being here and finally just one thing that I wanted to also give you to mention if e-commerce

brand owners or anyone watches this and they want to get more information you know about what you do

Brand owners or anyone watching this and wanting to get more information about what you do.

and all those things where what's the best place that they can find you yeah so they can go to my

website magicianly.com so i think we'll link it underneath the video yes so um yeah my social so

website magicianly.com, dus ik denk dat we het onder de video zetten, ja, dus um ja mijn sociale dus.

you can google me um emil dingemans just google for me and you can find my twitter my youtube

You can google me, um, Emil Dingemans. Just google for me, and you can find my Twitter, my YouTube.

channel where we give just free valuable stuff on email marketing so definitely go check that out

channel waar we gewoon gratis waardevolle dingen geven over e-mailmarketing, dus kijk daar zeker even naar.

and just my twitter tiktok et cetera et cetera so there's a lot of free value over there for

for e-commerce brands who wants to take their their customer retention seriously

for e-commerce brands that want to take their customer retention seriously

your

really take it seriously and really take it to the next level because emil is

really take it seriously and really take it to the next level because Emil is

getting some insane results man so uh yeah guys like i said emil thank you so much for the time

Getting some insane results, man, so uh yeah guys, like I said, Emil, thank you so much for the time.

and thank you so much for being here on the podcast uh guys thank you so much for watching

if you enjoy this podcast and you're watching this on youtube be sure to leave a like and also

If you enjoy this podcast and you're watching this on YouTube, be sure to leave a like and also

subscribe leave also comment what did you think do you have any other questions regards you know

Subscribe, leave a comment about what you thought, do you have any other questions? Regards, you know.

what we spoke about with emil today as for right now i want to thank you so much for watching and

What we talked about with Emil today, for now I want to thank you so much for watching and

i look forward to seeing you in the next podcast thanks and bye

I look forward to seeing you in the next podcast, thanks and goodbye.

Scaling An E-mail Marketing Agency To €40,000 Per Month With Emiel Dingemans From Magicianly