Drummer Talk 273 – So you want to MD! Now what?

Hi, this is John Reilly, and you're listening to Drummer Talk.

Hey, what is up? What is up? It is Thursday, October 13th, 2016, and welcome to another

episode of Drummer Talk, the Internet's longest-running drumming podcast. I am your host, Dave Cross,

and we are podcasting all the way from sunny and, thankfully, dry Orlando, Florida.

And all four walls still standing.

Oh my gosh, man, you want to talk about scared. We got, yeah, anyway, we'll talk about all of that

and bring you guys up to date on, you know, Orlando surviving Hurricane Matthew. But like I said,

my name is Dave Cross. Welcome to today's episode of Drummer Talk, Drummer Talk number 273. We are

plugging along here in season 11. Today's topic, so you're ready to music direct. Now what? And

that's what we're going to be talking about in today's show. We also have some mailbag

and bring you up to date on what happened to September's show and what's been going on in

our lives. Speaking of us, I want to introduce my co-host from the West Coast, Troy Dares. Troy,

what is up, man? How are you doing? Dude, it's been, I don't even know, I don't even know how

what's going on in your life, what's going on in my life. We don't have time to be like regular

people with regular jobs. That's a luxury we cannot afford. I mean, well, remember, we had a

show back in August, which basically said, hey, we're here, we're going to come back in September

with a show to kind of buoy us into the rest of the year. And then when September 13th came around,

you, Troy, you had to go back up to Canada to deal with more family stuff from the

the, um, the, um, the, um, the, um, the, um, the, um, the, um, the, um, the, um, the, um, the, um, the,

the fire. Yeah. No, uh, insurance companies. I love insurance companies. They are, you know,

they are some of the nicest people when it comes to helping you get back to what you had.

I am dripping with sarcasm right now. Oh yeah. I think we're on the sixth. I think we're on the

sixth insurance adjuster. Oh my gosh. Yeah. And, uh, I think they realized when,

when I started using negotiating tactics against them, I think they kind of realized,

so now i got now i got a guy that i think he's here to stay and we're definitely it's a chess

game and we're definitely playing the game um tally ho sir yeah man well that that's so that's

what happened to september show and then and then and then i get into rock of ages i had such a good

time playing rock of ages we closed on sunday we ended up doing uh 12 shows in no uh 13 shows in

10 days we had two shows that were canceled um the the thursday and friday night of last week

got canceled because of hurricane matthew because the entire city of orlando and the entire central

florida region was under mandatory curfew so we got um we got those shows got canceled and

you know hurricane matthew is a big deal when disney closes and disney did close they closed

for uh

thursday evening and all day friday now it turned out that we just got lucky some people like on

social media were complaining saying was overblown and overrated no we just got lucky the way this

thing was kind of rotating up the coast if it had gone five miles to the to the uh to the west

we would have got punched in the gut it stayed off the coast and and the way it was rotating it was

like the the the least damaging part rolled right up against the coast and it was like

against orlando and then it rotated back and then really tore into uh daytona beach and all the

flagler county that's where like saint augustine flagler college was underwater and and then it

proceeded to turn into a category one hurricane once it got you know up into georgia and everybody's

kind of breathing a sigh of relief but just because it wasn't category four hurricane winds

that doesn't mean it's not damaging as a matter of fact i think i think it did more damage in

north carolina

than it did in florida and i like 14 people died in north carolina only one person died in florida

just the the rains i mean rain raining all the way we had flood flooding into raleigh and fayetteville

we're talking hundreds of miles inland it was just dumping so much rain uh so no it's not it

wasn't overblown it wasn't overrated we just got super lucky in the end we had you know some some

a couple of palm fronds down and uh we lost

power for about six hours other other folks in the region lost power for you know almost a full

couple of days but in the in the end we we were considerably uh luckier than than some others so

but we are safe we are dry and and we're back hopefully for a semi-regular uh basis at least

once every couple weeks or so and so that that's kind of what's been going on rock of ages was

fantastic love playing rock of ages and i wrote in our show notes that we're going to be doing a lot of

notes wigs fake cigs and drummer gloves and uh so so for rock of ages if you know if you're not

familiar with rock of ages it's a show that's uh takes place in the late to mid to late 80s and as

songs from like poison and night ranger twisted sister warrant quiet riot journey europe white

snake pat benatar uh these and it's it's it's what's called the jukebox musical that means

that it's a musical that tells a story using music from

music from music from music from music from music from music from music from music from music from

someone else generally um you know popular artists and then it it rearranges all of those

all of those uh songs to tell a kind of a different story and so for example the main

character's name the the female lead was named sherry her last name was christian so uh so sherry

christian so you can imagine sister christian was in there along with oh sherry and uh opens up with

just like paradise and nothing but a good time and too much time we built this city

i want to rock we're not going to take it more than words just to be with you by mr big so so it

was a really super fun show we were on stage the whole time and that meant that i had to look like

i was from the 80s and so every one of the band and the fictional band in rock of ages is called

arsenal and so i was the drummer in arsenal and shannon you know mrs what is up she was the music

director and she was playing uh keys as well and uh please tell me she had to use aquanet

oh she had a wig we all had wigs and the wig was heavily aquanet so i got to wear have long hair

for once in my life and so my my character's persona was that of kind of a grizzled biker dude

and so i i bought a a 20 vest like leather vest off amazon which already had these these patches

like loud pipe save lives and and those kind of uh patches already had patches on it and i actually

bought a rush shirt and i bought a rush shirt and i bought a rush shirt and i bought a rush shirt

and so in my arsenal costume i'm wearing a rush shirt in in week two i had a boston shirt

and it was like this uh the rush shirt was getting pretty ripe oh i don't want to go there but but

yeah and i had never owned a rush shirt so it was one of the rush starman shirts and i got more

compliments on that shirt like i'm loading out because i wore it on closing night and uh like

one of the valet guys at the dr phillips center was like that's a cool shirt i got so many

shirts that i would wear like outside of that costume yeah but i had long hair and i bought

these uh phony cigarettes uh they're just like these costume cigarettes that look lit and so i

was like fake chain smoking the whole night and i actually bought drummer gloves i had never used

drummer gloves before and i was really kind of sweating it and i was like i don't want to use

them but i was really worried about uh really worried about blisters and everything else

and so you're going i mean these are rock tunes man these are full-on rock tunes now at the end

of the day at the end of the run it i i didn't need them because i was not behind acrylic everybody

else was in ears and going direct so keyboard was direct guitars bass were all direct i was the only

acoustic sound emanating from that stage other than the acoustic guitar which was still running

direct so the entire run was the director saying dave you are you sound great but we need less and

so so i i it ended up being more for show and i was like oh my god i'm not going to do this

show than anything else but i went ahead and bought the zildjian gloves and they had a little

extra padding on the index finger and the thumb otherwise man they felt just like like golf gloves

that's what they felt like super thin really well built very very comfortable and i'm not kidding

you eventually forget they're there what i wasn't able to do and part of this might have been because

i was i was using heavier sticks i i bought a bunch of different types of stick like charlie

watt sticks and uh using a lot of different types of sticks and i was like oh my god i'm not going to

some buddy rich signatures and i ended up going with the aaron spear signatures i freaking love

those sticks they're 16 and a half inches so they're really long but they have uh they have

the same the the shaft is the same diameter as the earthskin rides which i love which are a little

bit bigger than five a's uh just a little like it's like a couple of millimeters uh larger and

then it tapers off and then it tapers off but uh the the aaron spears kind of go straight up and

then they go in just a little bit and then they go in just a little bit and then they go in just a

little bit at the shoulder and then they pop out so it's not like a a bead or a ball or an acorn it's

just this kind of it's kind of like the buddy rich signatures but if if the the if the tip was

larger and they're they're vic firth i was and i ended up buying three pairs because i'm like i'm

gonna i'm gonna go through these but i was paying playing what i call quote-unquote theater volume

got yeah no i totally which is which is playing you know with sensitivity to the room which is

one of the things i really kind of pride myself on you know i'm really proud of

the fact that i i can play at any volumes any volume with sticks right um but uh what was

really tough about it was looking like i am rocking out in an 80s hair metal band

but playing a theater volume because i'm on stage i have sunglasses my little fake

cigarette and my my hippie wig and then i kind of look like fat jesus

i i i look i was like a fat jesus

and so maybe i'll put a picture i'll put a picture up in the uh the show notes

from uh that that i took you know i'll put that up there so you all right so i gotta ask man were

you doing the wand and were you doing the half curl and the and the dragon bat like all those

stick tricks and stuff like that i don't even know what those are so i'm gonna go with no

i had my one go-to like stick twirl which was just in between the index and the longer the

show went the more i i could realize hey i can put a stick twirl here there's one show

i was like i'm doing this too much so i had to kind of walk it back a little bit but

but yeah i i worked in some some twirls especially if i was doing just like kick drums like i would

go and i would then throw up a stick twirl there but the drummer gloves man i was very very

pleasantly surprised now i only tried the one pair only tried the zildjian and i just went on amazon

and found the ones with the best reviews i should have gone with some that had the fingers cut out

we're sitting there and getting ready to do soundcheck i throw my gloves on for the first

time like okay here we go and i swipe my ipad nope they were they were non-conductive and so i'm like

so i'm trying to swipe it and so uh these are they're they're leather palms these are nice

gloves you know they're they're actual nice gloves they feel really really good uh and so i i have to

take the gloves off and we run soundcheck and i immediately go to the the

costume costumer and i said i need you to i need you to cut the finger off of this so uh she's like

first thing she said is whose gloves are these i said they're mine okay no problem and so uh right

on the middle finger at the first knuckle at the tip we snipped it off and then she sewed it up so

it wouldn't uh it wouldn't fray and so i had drummer gloves with one finger off the tip of

those and peekaboo yeah exactly and so that wasn't as rock and roll as i probably would have been but i

would have liked but uh that took some getting used to but the gloves themselves did not take a

lot of getting used to at all i was i was pleasantly surprised it like i said by the end of it because

i was going for like the biker look anyway then it kind they look kind of like motorcycle gloves

if i'm being honest and that's what i was i was braced for motorcycle gloves and i went i and i

have you know a few pairs of those but they were they were really thin and you honestly forget

they're there i couldn't really do any like diddle work or or really you know

bouncing and those kind of things that's really tough your fine-tuned press rolls are a little

out of the right but as far as like rock yeah i'm gonna keep them and and use them again even with

the one finger cut out so i can turn pages on my ipad but have you ever used drummer gloves before

uh very long time ago i was in a rock band uh back in high school and uh not the greatest

technique in the world um i was using uh those vic for rock sticks

with the red nylon tip yeah uh for a very short period of time i i used drummer gloves but

but uh you know i never had to play that loud ever again yeah you know that deal where you

know i'd split my fingers open a few times but um you know with blisters and whatnot but yeah

i've never really touched them since since that that was 20 odd years ago yeah i would love to

get other people's thoughts on that i was like i said i was very pleasantly surprised if if any

there are a couple of spots in the show where

i had i not had drummer gloves on and had the sticks i was used to and not these you know long

kind of tree trunk kind of sticks that i would have easily used like bouncing technique or some

sort of modified molar kind of thing which goes out the window oh yeah and so it really strengthened

my wrist like 16th notes uh you know 16th notes at 120 where i i would use different technique but

it really strengthened my my wrists a little bit and i i ended up really liking them man so if if

you're listening to this and if you've used drummer gloves

your take on them i was i was trepidatious but at the end of the day i didn't come away hating them

i can't i couldn't i can't speak to like meinl's gloves i know vic firth has gloves and a head i

think they were like some of the the first whenever they they kind of came out with our

old synthetic sticks and all that stuff they were they were one of the first to market with

drummer gloves but i was very pleasantly surprised the zildjian's worked for me they were like 25

bucks i hated having to cut the finger out but uh hey now i can turn pages on my ipad so that's

that works out but man a lot a lot of gigs coming up i i just got booked in for a uh a show back

down at at the pew theater in downtown orlando it is a retelling of a christmas story which is you

know charles dickens christmas carol set in 70s harlem so i'm i'm looking yeah it's called like

christmas christmas has come into town i think is the name of the show and so uh that that's coming

up i just got booked for that and just more theater work i'm looking forward to it i'm looking forward to it

i'm doing so much theater work did big big river uh earlier i did hands on a hard body i've done

stuff with uh natalie cordone and sean kilgore and i'm doing arrangements for them and part of

my work there is what precipitated our topic today so you're ready to music direct and i and i think

um i think we have some listeners here who who at some point you know they're like okay i'm ready

to start either leading a band and i don't mean necessarily leading a band from a contractual

uh earlier with contracts and and businessy side of things but but rather you know if you're ready

to music direct especially stuff you know something either for theater or where you're

dealing and like doing a jazz gig and you're having to gather outside musicians that's what

we're going to be covering today is is that aspect of things that you need to know if if if you're

ready to actually music direct and we're going to talk about why why even why you would want to be

the music director what about booking the band what about like dealing with venues and rehearsals

and charts that's what we're going to be covering on today's show we're not going to cover any news

because we do have some mailbag from earlier uh in the summer that i definitely want to want to

cover and get to so without further ado let's launch into our mailbag

all right so uh our first message comes from lance he says hey dave been listening off and on for a

thing i've been wanting to get back into playing drums and hopefully start doing some side gigs

down the road however i need to practice as i'm sure i will be extremely rusty and i would of

course want to improve my skills my house will not accommodate an acoustic drum set in regards

to either space or volume for practicing i've been starting to look at electronic sets all i would

need is something to practice on so i'm trying to keep it as inexpensive as possible i saw a simmons

sd 100 for 200 but didn't like how you really can't adjust the spacings of the pads i also saw

300 which would be just about perfect at 300 do you have any suggestions on an inexpensive

electronic kit really hoping to keep it under 300 for purely practice i may actually use it for some

midi work but that's not my primary purpose just want to get something that feels as close as

possible to an acoustic kit thanks lance well um man it's it's really funny you mention an acoustic

or electronic kit because i had i don't want to call it the gig from hell

i don't

really want to call it that but um it was it was a jazz combo gig that uh the uh the guy booking

it the music director had uh contacted the venue and said hey uh we've already got a drum set here

so no worries and i was really excited i'm like awesome it you know it's it the pay wasn't all

that great i'm like okay if i don't have to load in that instantly makes it better so uh also they

were they were gonna feed us and i was like okay this this keeps getting better oh and it's pretty

good i'll take this not paying great gig because they have a kit they're gonna feed us and it's

close and so i get there my kind of standard 30 minutes early to to the to the gig and the first

thing i see is this giant electronic kit keep in mind this is a cocktail jazz gig where i'm playing

like tinkly nuanced stuff and it was like an older heart dynamics

kit that did have some some some uh some mesh heads but man and i told when when the pianist

got there i told him you're you're gonna get ting tingling tingling all night and it ended up we

ended up playing a ton more bosses than anything else because you know you could play bosses and

get away with it but man that was a painful painful painful gig and when i got there i'd like

i would much rather

load in my own drums then play this nothing against electronic kits they absolutely have

their place for rehearsals or if you're you know if you're playing in a certain style but jazz

electronic kits are the worst in jazz right they excel in some areas they're not great in some

other areas but they are least qualified to be playing jazz and so that was uh that was that

was a real drag and uh luckily i got my check and i

i was like you know what i don't want dinner i just want to be as far away from this kit as

possible and it was clear that it was you know somebody somebody's like personal kicks i got

there and there's like old notes and water bottles and there was also like a timpani and

some bongos and stuff there so i was obviously like in somebody's personal space yeah but that

was that was extremely extremely painful so it's interesting that you bring up electronic drums

before before we launch into these electronic drums i would challenge you to play a couple of

you. I'm not convinced that that $300 couldn't be put to better usage if you were using,

if your idea was to practice acoustics type techniques. Now, if you want to use them for

MIDI and all that stuff, but I think you could get a better feeling like just a pad set, like

DW pad set or something like that. And it would feel better and be of better quality for that

same $300 or even go for like something like a rhythm traveler kit, which comes with mesh heads

and symbol mutes and all that stuff. And, and go that, that direction. If I were you, and if I had,

you know, $300 and I was looking to, to have a practice type arrangement, I would look into

either a pad set that, which is going to feel better or something like a rhythm traveler that

has these mesh heads. That would be my, my personal recommendations. However, if you are,

you know, kind of bent on the $300 and wanting to go MIDI or electronic, especially if you wanted

to later record, um, then, uh, Troy, Troy, what, what are your thoughts? What are your thoughts

there? Um, well, I do want to add that in my office here, I have an acoustic drum set set up

and I live in a, like a townhouse situation. Uh, and I've got the Zildjian L low volume.

What's it called here? Uh, low volume 20 or 80 or something. Yeah. Low volume 80,

uh, cymbals, uh, and on a five piece kit, uh, with the Remo mesh heads on there. And I, I don't,

uh, Lance, I didn't see if you had a drum set already, but for, I think I picked the cymbals

up for 200 and the heads for around 80 bucks or something like that. Uh, and honestly, I wouldn't

trade it for the world, but, uh, if you're, if you're bent for leather on getting, um,

an electronic kit around the $300 mark, uh,

so when I was at NAMM a couple of years ago, there's a Chinese company and I can't remember

their name off the top of my head, but they're essentially doing OEM for a lot of the drum

companies out there that have these, uh, you know, sub $500 electronic drum kits. So I know

D drums got their, uh, double D beta, uh, that comes in around 300 bucks and it's got, uh, you

know, uh, four pads and three sort of symbols. Behringer has got their XD eight that comes in

around 300 bucks. Uh, so, uh, so, uh, so, uh, so, uh, so, uh, so, uh, so, uh, so, uh, so,

$300, uh, Sims, uh, Simmons has got a couple of kits. I think it's like the, it's the SD series

that comes in somewhere. At least this has got a sub $300 or sub $500 kit. Uh, so, but honestly,

what you're getting is you're getting an OEM and OEM kit from, uh, from this Chinese group.

That's, that's just been rebranded. Oh, cat percussion is the other one. I was like, yeah.

And I played a cat percussion, a $300, $400 cat percussion.

I think it's like the KT one or KT two or something like that. Uh, and it was, it was

pretty good. Um, you still get to buy your own pedal, your own kick pedal and a few other things,

uh, thrown and whatnot, but that'll get you in and around that. So, but honestly, I've tried them

all out and they're all pretty well the same. Uh, if you've go, uh, you can check them out at your

local guitar center. Um, Sam Ash has usually got a bunch, uh, Lance, he didn't say where you're from.

So I'm assuming the U S uh, does he say where he's from? No, he doesn't, but I think it's safe

to assume North America. Yeah. North America, uh, in Canada, you know, long McQuaid or, uh,

um, or ax musical usually has the electronic kit set up. So, uh, it's, uh, it just kind of depends,

you know, I would go and try and find, uh, go and try three or four of these things out and just see

what you like. If you're kind of, I can hear my cat and my dog. I'm just going to close that door.

Uh, but yeah, I w I would go, uh, try things out and don't be afraid of used,

uh, guitar center online is, is posting a lot of their used gear online.

Um, not to mention eBay and eBay and all, eBay is always kind of tricky for me. I trust guitar

center. Uh, but eBay is, uh, I've had some friends that have bought some quote unquote

American Stratocasters that turned out to be Chinese fakes. And that scared me from,

from making any of those kinds of purchases. It's also Sam Ash as well puts a, puts their

use stock on their website.

Yeah. And Sam Ash puts their used gear up online as well. So that would, that would be my

suggestion. I would say go and go on, go online and just, and go to electronics and type in the

sub $300. And they're all, they're really all the same. They all come from that one Chinese company,

I think. And there's another Taiwanese company that doesn't, but they're pretty well.

But for $300, you're looking at rubber pads though. You're, you're probably not looking

at mesh heads and, and as far as, you know, technique and nuance, I'm not sure you're

going to be practically, you know, happy with, with rubber padded electronics.

That, yeah. Well, as opposed to, you know, I'm the one who just said, go buy a rubber pad kit,

but that's going to be, I think, I think that's going to feel, feel better. And I don't, I don't,

I don't know.

Yeah. When, when you're in electronic kits, your feel is, is, is really out the window,

your touch and feel and everything like that, which is why I, I, I have the, and I do own

an electronic kit, which hasn't been set up forever, but I have the Zildjian low volume

cymbals and the Remo mesh, mesh heads on an acoustic kit here in my office.

Uh, and you know, you, you, it's not 100% like the real drum set, but I just did a gig

last Friday, uh, at a private party gig. And I haven't touched an actual drum set in a

really, you know, a really long time up until that date, but I practice every day on that

mesh head kit. And I didn't feel, I felt like, you know, maybe a little bit of loss, but

as far as getting to, um, as close as you possibly can without making all the noise

in the space, uh, you know, going with those, those, those, those, those, those, those,

those low volume cymbals and, and those Remo mesh heads or the, or, um, the Pearl rhythm

traveler.

Yeah. That's one of the reasons I like the rhythm traveler. You mentioned space. And

so putting, you know, getting an, an acoustic kick there might, you know, increase your

footprint. The rhythm traveler kicks, they're a 18 by six, I think they're super thin, super

shallow, super shallow. Um, and so, and, and they are complete solution. They have all

the, the pedals you need. They have cymbals, uh, hardware stands and they're,

they're all inclusive. Uh, the only thing I think you need to provide would be a throne.

So, and they come with, uh, mylar heads and mesh heads. So you can kind of swap out and

they, they don't sound, well, I mean, they don't sound great with heads, but you know,

you could, you can get away with it and make a little break beat kit or something.

I mean, it'll work, right? It's not the most ideal situation, but it'll work.

When I was, uh, when I was doing my, uh, my master's recital, I had a rhythm traveler

in the house and that's, that's what I used. I used mesh heads on the, on the drums. And

then I, I literally threw a blanket into the kick, uh, because the, the mesh kick is, I

think feels a little bit too springy, a little bit too bouncy. And so, uh, so I had it, it

was, it was like a little cardboard box sounding kind of thing. It didn't sound great, but

it felt a lot more natural than the, than the mesh kick head. And, uh, that's what I

did. I had, and it comes with these little cheap pieces of crap cymbals, but they have

cymbals.

I mean, I'm not going to lie. They're, they're cheap, they're cheap metal and you can easily

dent them if you, if you lay into them too hard, but they also come with cymbal mutes.

And so, so yeah, that, that would sound, that is no louder than an electronic kit. And I

think, uh, I, I think if the idea is that you're practicing, I think you're going to

be more happy. Just personally, that's what I think. Now, as soon as you start talking,

you know, getting into, you know, you start pushing a thousand dollars for an electronic

kick kit, then, then we're really, we're really, we're really, we're really, we're really

trying, starting to, uh, bridge the gap there a little bit, but that would, that would be

my, my take.

And then just one thing, uh, Lance, you didn't mention if you lived in an apartment or something,

but, uh, an electronic bass drum beater will just drive sound into the floor. So if you're

on a second or third floor apartment or, or you've got people below you, um, you're going

to have to lift that thing up because.

Yeah. I think he's in a house, but that is, that is, that is great. Great advice.

Yeah.

All right. Our next message comes from Maximillian, which is an awesome.

Name. Hey, Dave and Troy been listening to the podcast for over a year, but thanks to

the archives, I've probably heard close to 200 episodes. Well, thanks for listening,

Max. Do you mind if I call you Max? Thanks to both of you for the incredibly valuable

information as well as the entertainment. I have a legal question and can't think of

anyone better to ask than the two of you and would super appreciate any kind of clarification

when transcribing drum parts. Are we dealing with copyrights or licensing fees, et cetera?

Am I allowed to completely transcribe the drum parts for a whole tune and share it with

the world?

How about if I were to sell the transcript?

Again, thanks to the two of you for going strong with the podcast. I'm an absolute fan

signed Maximillian Anderson. Well, first of all, just as a disclaimer, we are not lawyers.

We're just dudes, a couple of dudes, you know.

And we don't play one on the internet either.

Right. And so, but all we can do is share our own experience. Now, as far as copyright

itself, copyright law does not allow for the copyright of drum parts. The only, the only

thing you can copyright are melody and lyrics.

According to the letter of the law. Now, we're seeing like Robin Thicke and Pharrell Williams

get sued by the Marvin Gaye estate, which is challenging these types of things. This is why

we can have like blurred lines being sued for influence. But I think what we're getting into

there is not necessarily the drum part, but rather the drum part plus the way it sounds to

where it sounds like it was sampled. And regardless, it's, it's a legally granted, it's not a legal

thing. So I'm not going to go into that part of the story, but I'm going to go into a little bit about it.

But I'm going to go into a little bit about it. So I'm going to go into a little bit about it.

area at this point and and i think copyright is being pushed into new directions and we'll

we could spend a whole hour just talking about how scary it is to be sued for music that in like

copyright infringement based on your influences that's terrifying to me as a drummer as a composer

it is terrifying so all that having been said you can't actually copyright drum parts because

there's nowhere in in copyright law that allows for it that's why you know you have the drum

transcription books that you find there's uh columbus percussion at pasic a couple years ago

was selling the uh was it the the papa joe jones or philly joe jones joe jones omnibook and and so

as far as putting it out there then i i don't think legally as far as the licensing and copyright i

don't think there's any anything legally to stop you from doing that do you have there is

one legal hurdle that you have to cross which is how uh people in the past have have been shut down

from selling their transcriptions online uh and it has to do with names uh so if you do the drum

transcription to uh a pearl jam song and you identify that this is you know jeremy for instance

that's where um you can't you can't um copyright the drum part but you you do have legal ownership

of the name jeremy right and that mixed with

the actual transcription that's there that's what's um that's what's having that's what's

gotten a lot of people taken down um so and a few people have tried to get around it but honestly

they're um you know they're any any time you're making money on something that a that a record

label owns especially when it comes to pop they're popular artists they're really really

protective over the not just the copyrights but also the trademarks yep so uh titles of songs

get registered as trademarks that's right so if you want to just throw up your

transcriptions without any titles or who they're by or who the original drummer was

and leave people to uh just guess just guess you know just just figure it out and guess well you

know you are legally allowed to do that um i don't know anyone who would and it gets really gray

when you say things like in the style of trey cool or in the style of you know dave grahl or

something yeah well this isn't isn't directly directly related but uh i've been doing some

arrangements for sheet music uh

sheet music plus they have a whole arranger side and i did a uh a flute duet arrangement

of how great thou art the the hymn right the the gospel hymn and uh the hymn itself is based off of

an old um eastern uh or a european rather eastern european melody called ostoragut

and so i thought hey it's it's the i'm not using any lyrics or anything so i can just put this

ostoragut and then

parentheses i i put how great thou art and the the composer is traditional it's so so it's it's

public domain but as soon as i attach that title to that arrangement that's when i got i got in

trouble and the the in trouble wasn't you know they didn't swoop in through my windows with a

SWAT team you know all they basically said was we can't sell this anymore and they gave me the

contact information for the estate that owns uh how great thou art and it's like if you still want

to sell it

then um then i would recommend contacting these people and then they get a cut and they get a

writer's share and all that other stuff uh at the end of the day it was a it was a three dollar

flute arrangement and it was not worth the headache for me to try to hunt that all down

so i just i just kind of just let it ride i think as soon as you start like selling them that that's

where things you know money is is exchanging hands for what you are doing that's when kind of the

ante gets upped a little bit i think if you were just doing there and say hey i did this and i did

it and what do you what do you guys think i mean here here at drummer talk we have transcriptions

you know but um but although we are not listed as a 503c that's the non-profit right 503c we're not

501 right um we're not non-profit but you know we do take donations and everything and um and we

still have transcriptions in the chamber we need to put out but that's that's all this story um

but we're not like selling them we're not saying for five dollars you can download this transcription

and so i think that's that's that's when you start getting eyebrows raised from people

who are going to um we're going to want a cut in it because ultimately it's not your original work

it's your original transcription but um but that that would be my i think is if you were

looking to sell them then i think that's where you start getting into some some tricky business

yeah it gets tough if you if you really want to do it honestly uh no one's ever actually

and you know great business opportunity no one's ever actually had a great business opportunity no

one's ever really taken the time to go and hunt down the copyrights for for all of these tunes

with the exception of like hal leonard that has you know the rights to aerosmith and uh you know

all the all the pop stuff um but you know a lot of these you know if they're jazz transcriptions

you didn't really say what they are a lot of these um companies out there like for for stuff

that vinnie's played on vinnie caliudas played on or dave weichel's played on it's actually really

easy to just call them up and say hey you know what i'm going to do i'm going to do this and

say this is what i want to do um this is this is what i want to charge and this is your cut

you know there's a really good side business to be had but no one's ever done it including myself

well because at the end of the day i mean it's a very very niche kind of product and very niche

product it's not i doubt you would make your money back and so uh so nobody like hal leonard

the reason there are very few drum transcription books with you know led zeppelin and rush

notwithstanding is because there's just not a lot of

money to be made in it and so it's it's not it's not on it's not on these publishers radar so

correct yeah all right so thank you very much maximilliam for that question and then finally

we have lynn hey guys it's been a while since i wrote to you uh but still been listening question

so i asked to sit in and sub for a drummer for a cover band they do 80s and 90s rock

i thought this was an interesting question given my late my latest rock of ages exploits

go on to say i'm familiar with most of the songs but many of them i've never actually played on

drums no practice i've never actually played on drums i've never actually played on drums i've

never actually played on drums i've never actually played on drums and i have a week to learn 60 songs

60 oh my god i may be able to meet with the guitar player for a little bit so my question is

do i chart out the songs or is that bad if i do chart them do you have a way you would use for

five hours worth of music which is about 60 songs you can uh use this question for a podcast but if

you have time would you try to respond asap i'm nervous about this but excited too i normally just

play at church lately so i'm looking forward to playing out again they're paying me 150 bucks

thanks guys keep up the great work lynn well sorry first of all lynn i'm sorry that this is

probably two months two or three months too late but i thought this was an interesting question

and i i believe that we've done a show in the past as far as making up um i call like cheat charts

or just really easy easy ways to chart out tunes but if you're dealing with this situation so let's

say you know lynn we'll we'll we'll befriend a discredited scientist help him uh build a time

machine and then go back in time and answer your question but since we can't do that i'm hoping

that this will uh this will this will be a good time to do that so i'm hoping that this will be a

other folks first of all 150 bucks for 60 tunes that's that's a little weak but it's still not

nothing um i would first start with a giant playlist like spotify or even youtube or apple

music or or i don't know if pandora will let you do do this but just a playlist of all the tunes

and just listen to them on rotation just so you can get them in your head and also try to figure

out how for lack of a better term how anal the guys are about you playing the music

exactly to the record because a lot of these songs are really easy to fake right they're really easy

easy to just kind of play through they're all very very straightforward with maybe a few little

spots here and there but if they're like hell bent on you playing exactly to the record then

that that dramatically increases the amount of work that you have to do ahead of time

so uh i would find that out first so if uh if they are okay with you kind of

playing you know it's a cover band and you're just sitting in um and i would just go through

and make out um number charts so here's a song and here's five bars of this four bars of this

and then kind of jot out any any kind of notes and if you and if you can read music and write

music this helps a great deal because you can just write out the groove that that it exists

for that i i keep a little black moleskine book for this very purpose that i just jot down

uh the the parts or if you can find a lyric sheets that helps too especially if you're

rocking an ipad or something like that these days i i just write the groove into the margins by the

lyrics and so when the lyrics change that's when i know to to change or if if they have like piano

music and and of course that gets into other like church gigs and things like that but um just uh

using measure numbers to uh to jot out little grooves or

however you need to to communicate to yourself and what that means and so so that's what i do

let me let me check uh let me check the archives here to see if if we've had if we've had things

on this uh now if if they're like really bent on you playing exactly like the record

then for me if this was me then i would actually go in and and make out charts you know with with

bar lines and all of that other stuff for 60 songs i would go and renegotiate the charts

in terms of the contracts yes 150 bucks for 60 a five hour 60 tune gig that's that's pretty intense

man well i mean 60 tunes that's i i mean you got to learn 60 songs but that's uh what's that at

three minutes a song that's you know not including breaks or solos or anything like that it just

seems a little uh not that i'm saying that you know lynn you shouldn't have taken this gig and

and and you're wrong or anything even remotely like that but

a lot of the time uh and i've been in these situations where it's like oh this is our

song book could you learn the song book uh you know the gigs in three days uh hey well do you

have charts no none of us read music okay great you send me the set list and i will learn the set

list yeah then you get the set list and it's you instead of it being 60 or 40 or whatever it's like

18 songs and then you just stick to that set list have a couple in the back uh in the back pocket

just in case yeah um and anything you have in the back

pocket's got to be something you know like mustang sally or or anything you can pull out

uh in your sleep but uh you know when i'm when i get called for these kinds of things and i and i

do i do occasionally do it uh where you got to learn 30 or 40 tunes like i did a casino gig once

it was a big christmas party type casino gig where the drummer just couldn't make it and you know

they put on a big show and it was about 40 tunes for the whole night or 50 tunes i had to learn

every one of them um i

now lynn if you don't read music this this this becomes progressively hardened i think dave

dave said uh you said some stuff that i i would have never thought i'd have the lyric sheet and

just say groove changes here or whatever but when i gotta learn a lot of tunes in a real hurry i

just listen to the tunes with a pat with a just a standard um legal pad and i just make very simple

charts where i have the groove i've got bars i've got rests i have little uh little rhythm um

bars for for things that are really important uh you know i'll put like guitar solo here and i have

done so many gigs that way and auditions for that matter where i've uh i actually got you know a gig

that way in ohio where i was auditioning for a theater group um it was like the only the only

gig in in all of ohio that was a steady gig you know every week and uh they asked me to learn

three three tunes in 24 hours i said is it okay if i make charts they're like you can make charts

okay that's a skill

um and i did and i i remember i can't remember what the other two songs were but one of the songs

was um frankenstein uh by the almond brothers and you know that's in like 11 8 or you know the first

part it's 11 8 and then 6 8 and then you know a bunch of other a bunch of other things as well

and i remember sitting down you know charting it out like oh wow if i didn't know how to read

there's no way i could have gotten this gig um and i it turns out i was the only one that passed

it up so which i thought was amazing and hilarious at the same time but uh yeah so that i mean that's

kind of what i do uh if if i get a chart out a bunch of songs that i have never heard before

uh i will sit down with a legal pad and i will make very very simple charts where it's you know

four bars of this eight bars of this rest here uh if there's start and stops i'll i'll just do

very simple you know 8th or 16th note rhythmic figures um and just put little notes like guitar

solo here vote uh vox 2

verse chorus uh and then whatever like other little tiny notes and i just sit there with

the legal pad on a music stand and just read it yeah my only other advice is uh if you're

gonna do that make simple charts make sure you bring your own light for and music stand yeah

exactly yeah this is where like having an ipad and i recently uh bit the bullet and got an ipad pro

and uh and yes i know it's it's dude my wife is is our anniversary is coming around the course

what do you want for anniversary ipad pro

as far as charts go it's it's for as much like theater work and stuff that i've been doing it's

been an absolute lifesaver absolutely you have it's a 9 9 by 12 sheet i mean it's an 8.5 by 11

sheet of paper it i my entire rock of ages book i scanned it all in my entire uh big river book

scanned it all in and it was perfect and i was sprung for the little pencil and uh it was

fantastic it's if if you have if you have the money you can do it you can do it you can do it

you know or the investment i it's absolutely worth it if you do a lot of theater work and

that kind of thing the the pro is 100 worth it just for chart management yeah my wife has the

pro it's yeah not you too dave yeah oh man i've and i'm like why didn't i do this when they first

came out because i thought you know i thought i'd be okay but it really is night and day so so

let us know let us know how it went and uh and

it's an 80s and 90s rock uh cover band i imagine they're probably not busting out like you know 11

8 songs and those kind of things so hopefully it'll be easy like troy said if you can read

just a little bit of music then this gets exponentially uh simpler to jot down so so

thank once again thanks for the the question if you have any questions you can let us know over

at drummertalk.org slash contact or you can hit us up on social media at twitter.com slash drummertalk

as well as facebook.com

slash drummertalk we're going to take a quick break and when we come back we're going to dive

into the world of music directing we'll be right back

we're not gonna take it

we ain't gonna take it

we're not gonna take it anymore

we've got the right to choose it

there ain't no way we'll lose it

this is our life

this is our song

we'll fight the powers that be just

don't pick on destiny cause

you don't know us

you don't belong

we're not gonna take it

no we ain't gonna take it

we're not gonna take it

anymore

that already brings back memories

yeah this was a part in the show where the the protesters were coming out and it was all me by

itself what's interesting about about some of the charts is um you know i was running just a regular

five-piece kit for rock of ages and uh and in traditional two-up and uh and uh and uh and uh and

up one down type setting but man some of the way they've written them out they i guess they transcribed them but it was it would have been really really difficult with the sticking to try to actually play what was on the page

you know and so i just i i you know i i i tweaked some of them i think if it was uh one up two down or if i had you know more than a

a five-piece kit maybe if i had two floor toms or something some some of those parts would have been a little bit easier there was one section right at the beginning of the show

that uh that really needed a lot of work and uh i think it's going to be more important than anything else so i'm just gonna put that in the show to racetrack

that really needed a double kick and I didn't have it.

I don't have a double kick pedal. And so you didn't,

you didn't reach down to the floor, Tom, and play a little.

Well, I ended up, I ended up, yeah, just doing, doing that part on the floor,

but it was, it was a 16th notes on the kick and,

and as well as the crashes. So it's like with four,

four notes with the crashes as well. So I just kind of faked it.

And then it all went by so quickly, but yeah,

that was one of the tunes and we're going to, at the end,

when we're done here, we'll play another tune.

Well, let me ask you this.

Did you pick this tune Dave because you were very oppressive and this was the

musicians rising up against the music director?

No, I chose this one because I had a solo in the show.

So it was just me. Yeah, that was a lot of fun.

But today's topic is so you're ready to music direct and maybe you're not ready

to music direct. Maybe you're,

you're curious what music directing actually means.

And that,

that's why I wanted to talk about this because I know in my career I have within

the last within the last 12 months or so have started transitioning from being a

side man or woman,

a side person to being a music director,

meaning that, that I'm,

I'm in charge of multiple things that go on. You know, I, I did,

I was music director for a musical fringe festival musical in the summer in

May. And even though I, I, I'm just quote unquote, just the drummer.

And, and I'm not playing keys or anything. You know,

I was in charge of a lot of different things,

booking the band and understanding the venue and everything.

So I wanted to, to share from my own personal experience and Troy,

feel free to jump in at any time. But,

but thinking that there are some of you out there that maybe are ready to jump

into being a music director.

This will be geared more towards either a theater and,

or like booking gigs more like corporate gigs or, you know,

where, where you are hiring side,

side players, as opposed to, I am a,

I am in a band and we are going and doing our thing. That's,

that's really kind of the angle I'm taking about.

So first thing I think you have to ask is why you would want to be a music

director. Cause there are, there are a lot of people.

Or let me, let me interject really quickly,

or you get your first music directing job as a baptism by fire.

Like, like, like professor Troy over here did.

Really?

Oh, I think, I think I told this story on,

on the show.

I was on a cruise ship and the music director was so drunk one night,

the show, it was the worst gig, worst gig night of my life.

The piano playing music director was so drunk and the show tanked so hard.

And the act was so bad that people were walking out halfway through the show.

Oh, it was, it was awful.

And the act wasn't going to go on for the second show that night.

And I,

I was already like imagining what my resignation letter,

it was going to look like.

I was already both,

both the guitar player and I in the band were like,

well, so this is how,

so this is how it ends.

This is the end of the end of days.

This is what it looks like.

And the deputy cruise director and the staff captain were able to talk this

guy down.

They realized very quickly the piano player was wasted.

And the deputy cruise director just came to,

we had a handshake agreement.

She's like, Troy, you know, just,

just get us through this show.

And I'm like,

all right,

why not?

What could happen?

What could,

yeah.

How much farther down the hole can we go at this point?

And the next,

the next,

after we got through the show,

I went straight to the crew bar and was just like,

I,

well,

it's nice knowing everyone.

Thank you so much.

What's going on?

Oh,

no worry.

You'll hear about it.

And I had written out my,

my resignation letter six o'clock in the morning.

I got the call.

I got the six o'clock knock as we like to call it to go to the captain's office.

Where I walked in there and,

and the cruise director was there.

The captain was there.

Staff captain was there.

And I said,

I,

I let's,

I would really appreciate not being terminated.

Here's my resignation letter.

And the cruise director just pushed it across.

How'd you like to be the bandmaster?

Wow.

Like what?

Promotion.

And I,

I BK,

that was my,

that was my first official promotion to being music director,

bandmaster.

And,

you know,

of,

of significant,

you know,

I got a huge pay raise.

I got all kinds of,

but there was huge responsibilities that came with it.

And,

and that's really the thing in being the music director that it comes with a

lot of responsibilities.

And so it,

it shouldn't be a power trip.

You know,

it shouldn't be like I'm in charge and I'm the boss and I love bossing

people around because,

because,

because no,

that that's only going to burn crash and burn around you.

So it shouldn't be a power trippy thing.

You should really,

you know,

you should have an attention to detail.

And,

and I believe a genuine,

joy from kind of keeping all these plates spinning.

I know for me,

I am so like,

I am the guy that shows up to the gig 30 minutes early,

just because I don't like feeling pressured and stressed out and it's all

sweaty and gross from setting up.

So I get there early.

I'm always the guy during gigs.

I'm like,

okay,

it's time to take a break,

but I'm also like,

we're done with our break.

It's time to start playing again.

And so I have this in me.

I,

I like budgeting.

I like,

you know,

knowing all the details,

and having charts and all that stuff.

And,

and that I genuinely get pleasure from doing that for myself.

And there is value in being able to do that for other acts or,

you know,

with,

with other team of musicians.

So now first we got to recognize that historically music directors are usually

the pianists.

I mean,

let's just call it what it is,

especially.

And for a while on cruise ships,

that was the job requirement that they would not consider other musicians.

Yep.

Uh,

uh,

music directors.

And so in my experience,

especially theater gig,

and it makes sense because the,

the music director for a theater gig,

usually there,

I know with,

with Shannon and Rock of Aid,

you're there for all of the rehearsals.

I mean,

she was there for six weeks of rehearsals before the rest of the band ever showed up

because you're there and you're playing piano and,

and there's a whole rehearsal score versus your conductor score.

And so I,

I totally understand that.

But I think if,

if you find some,

some musicians,

and if you find some acts that are willing to take a chance on you,

I think there's enormous benefit to having drummers be music directors.

And anytime you,

you've seen,

you know,

a band that has a drummer in the forefront,

whether it's Max Weinberg or whether it's like a jazz number,

like Buddy Rich or,

or Gene Krupa or,

or Dave Weckl's band,

Stuart Copeland's band,

where,

where you see a drummer who's like,

their name is on the belt,

then they are the music director.

You just have to make sure that you,

you surround yourself with people who,

especially pianists and keyboardists,

if it's a jazz bent or theater bent,

who can really kind of hold up that side of it.

Because even though as a drummer,

we are reacting and we are driving the musical aspects and the harmonic and

melodic aspects of what's going on,

we can't directly influence it.

You know what I mean?

So if somebody's playing,

let's say the singer lost their note as a pianist,

I can,

I could sit there and,

and play the note for them and help them along.

But as a drummer,

I really can't.

So I'm just osmosing,

osmosising through,

you know,

mentally trying to get my pianist to play that.

And now that,

that,

that kind of thing has happened.

It happened in May at the French festival.

The pianist just,

or the,

the vocalist just lost their note and I'm sitting there on the drums.

I'm like,

I can't help,

but luckily the pianist helped it out.

So.

And that will,

that will lead into,

you know,

hiring musicians you trust.

Exactly.

And so first ask yourself,

why you want to be the music director.

If you love gathering charts,

if you love managing people and managing details,

if all you want to do is show up,

play,

take your check and leave,

MDing is not for you.

Don't even consider it.

No,

no.

And if you're bad at those kinds of things,

but still want to do it,

then MDing is probably not for you.

You need to want to do it,

but you also need to be talented in it because it does require a lot of

attention to detail because there are a lot of details.

That you have to manage.

If it's something that,

that maybe,

maybe you might want to try,

but don't want to jump in full,

you know,

full,

full face or,

or headfirst or whatever,

then maybe ask if you can help out in some of the details.

Maybe there's a,

you're,

you're a sideman for an upcoming gig and you're like,

Hey,

can I help kind of coordinate maybe the rehearsal schedule and,

and just for ask for a little bit.

So you can kind of get your feet wet in,

in that,

but it does require a great deal of musicianship.

It requires a great deal of attention to detail.

It requires a great deal of inter intra personal skills and just being cool,

being cool under pressure,

being cool under fire,

being cool when things go wrong,

being cool when things go wrong and they're your fault,

being cool when things go wrong and they're not your fault,

but there's,

you're still having to deal with it.

All of these things kind of come in into play.

So one of the,

one of the kind of rules of thumb that I have for,

for,

for other musicians that want to step into the bandmaster music director role

is if the music that you're playing requires more than 50% of your capacity,

you're probably not ready.

Hey,

unpack that a little bit.

When you say capacity,

what do you mean by that?

So if you've got your head buried in the music and you've got to count every

bar and it,

you know,

it's not a natural,

you know,

I,

when I'm music directing for shows or when I have done it in the past,

I haven't done it in quite a while,

but I,

I get to the point where I can memorize the show.

Um,

you know,

where the stops and the starts are.

I might,

I have my music there,

but,

but I,

I probably using about 20 to 25% of my capacity so that I can be aware of

what's happening on stage.

I can be aware of,

of what,

uh,

the other musicians are doing.

Uh,

I can be aware of things like lighting cues.

So if you,

if you're,

if you are doing a show or,

or you've been doing shows and you might want to step into the music director

role,

but doing the music that you've been playing in previous shows requires,

requires more than 50% of your capacity,

your,

your musical ability.

Uh,

you might want to,

uh,

rethink about that a little bit because when you're in the music director's

role,

the music that you're playing,

it,

you know,

is very important,

but also having situational awareness,

360 degrees of situational awareness of what's going on.

And,

you know,

a great case of that is,

you know,

what happens when a mic goes out on and it happens all the time.

Uh,

you know,

maybe there's a vocalist on stage,

or something and a mic pack,

uh,

battery fails and you've got to loop the band.

Uh,

you've got to,

uh,

I don't know.

You're,

you're playing four bars.

It's like,

okay,

uh,

loop these last four bars,

two,

three,

get that up.

Boom.

That do that.

Do that.

And you're just looping four bars.

Well,

while the,

uh,

actors,

uh,

and singers and stuff on stage,

maybe do some blocking on the fly and they're able to get it back on.

And then they might signal to you,

okay,

we're ready to go.

And then you,

you give a little cue in.

So,

uh,

when I talk about capacity,

uh,

in terms of your ability to play,

it's what I'm,

what I'm talking of is if you're using more than 50% of your capacity to play

the music and you have to concentrate on the music,

um,

you don't have a lot left,

uh,

to be in control.

That's not a great word,

but to be aware,

aware of the domain that,

that the music director's role plays.

Does that make sense?

Yeah.

I call this,

and I think of this as multi-threading,

you know,

being able to,

to play your part and have complete conscious awareness of everything that's going on,

knowing what all the other musicians are doing and should be doing at any given time.

This,

this also means queuing,

uh,

and,

and count offs,

knowing all of the tempos before the tune starts,

because if you're dealing with a really tight show,

you know,

and,

and the number ends and then the next number comes in,

you need to already know what that tempo is.

so thinking ahead,

multi-threading,

and being able to,

to process multiple things at one time.

And no,

you're absolutely right.

I,

I just hadn't heard it called the capacity,

but that's right.

If you're,

if your head is buried into the music,

then you can't have that,

that other ESP awareness of everything else that's going on.

Now,

this is one of the reasons that,

that pianists generally make exceptionally good music directors,

because as a pianist,

you're generally,

you have such a,

a,

a grasp,

no pun intended,

but a hands-on,

with all of the harmonic and melodic language that's happening.

Drummers,

we generally play a supportive role,

but I think as drummers,

one of the reasons I,

I,

I think that we make really good music directors is because we spend so much of our life with this situational awareness going on.

Because,

because let's admit it,

if we're,

if we're reading charts and stuff,

we,

we don't have to necessarily have our head buried in the music necessarily,

other than like,

you know,

hits,

hits and cues and those kind of things.

But we as drummers are generally used to observing everything that's going around us and,

and,

and going on around us.

And I believe that that makes us exceptionally skilled at music directing.

I know it has for me.

I am always like head on a swivel looking around,

eye contact,

communicating.

Uh,

and no,

I can't,

you know,

I can't augment the harmony of what's actively happening,

but I can absolutely,

uh,

conduct the band if you,

if you will,

even with tempos and all that,

that's,

that's easy to do on the drums,

but cues count off those kinds of things,

knowing what all the musicians are doing and should be doing that multi-threaded situational awareness.

I think drummers are really good at that.

And that's all aspects of actually running the show.

And then,

so actually while in the trenches,

there's an audience watching you running the show.

Those are things that you all have to keep in mind.

But what about some of the other details?

So let's say you get a call and from a,

from a vocalist and okay,

why I,

I want you to be the music director,

Dave,

or,

you know,

insert your own name and we have a gig coming up and we need to book a band.

And so here are some things that you need to keep in mind when,

if you get a call like that and you are the MD,

first of all,

is the actual booking of the band.

And this means that you have to know players and not just players who you've heard of,

but players that you can trust players that you need to trust.

You know,

are going to show up,

you know,

they're going to show up clean,

meaning,

I mean,

let's just be honest.

They're not going to be stoned.

They're not going to be drunk or hung over.

They're going to show up on time.

They're going to show up with all their gear.

They're going to show up with the cables and pedals they need and the music stand if they need it and their music.

And they would,

they will have read the music ahead of time.

They're not sight reading the day of the show or the day of the rehearsal.

These,

that's,

that's what's when you trust a player.

That's what that means.

Now,

now that could be tough if you're in a new market.

And so this is why,

you know,

it's,

I've,

I've been in Orlando four and a half years and I'm just now within like the last year feeling like I'm starting to get some traction in this area because it networking takes time.

And it could be as simple as,

and we've talked about breaking into a new market.

We,

we have done that in a show and,

and diving into Facebook and that's how it got started for me.

I just said,

okay,

I've been in Orlando three years.

I think I'm ready to get started again.

I think this was two years at the time.

And I found the Orlando theater networking group and I joined it.

And I said,

I'm Dave,

I'm a percussionist and the rest is history,

you know?

So,

um,

so networking,

knowing players that you can trust.

Sometimes that means you do have to take a chance on someone you don't know,

but if you trust someone else and they recommend that person,

then,

um,

then you're banking on still trusting somebody else's opinion.

That also means,

uh,

knowing when,

when you contact a player,

like say,

okay,

we got a jazz gig coming up.

I have a Christmas,

Christmas gig coming up.

And,

uh,

the,

these are two singers and I'm MDing and I'm putting the band together.

The regular keyboardist can't make it.

And so I'm booking the bassist and a keyboardist.

And so before you contact,

before you reach out to those players,

those players that you trust,

have all of your details ironed out ahead of time,

meaning what the money is,

what does the gig pay?

Meaning what are the gig times?

How long is the gig going to be?

And include rehearsals,

the very last thing you want to do.

And I've,

I've accidentally done this.

I've said,

Hey,

are you available this?

Yes.

Awesome.

Nail it down.

And then I was like,

Oh dang it.

I forgot to mention a rehearsal because ideally,

you know,

musicians should be getting paid for rehearsals as well,

because it's in theater.

It's called a service.

You get paid per service.

And so,

um,

however many services you have,

meaning rehearsals and sits,

probes and dress rehearsals,

tech rehearsals and performances,

those are all count as a service.

And so anytime I,

uh,

I,

I book out with the theater,

I,

I charge a rate per service.

Now,

sometimes rehearsals can be less.

Sometimes it could be more.

If I'm booking like for this Christmas gig,

I have a flat amount.

And then I say,

here it is.

This is this performance time.

And we're going to have one rehearsal.

Here's the money.

Is it worth it to you?

Now?

I don't actually say that.

I don't say,

Hey Bob,

is this worth it to you?

No,

I,

they,

they have to make that decision themselves.

What you don't want to do is say,

okay,

it's 200 bucks for an hour Christmas gig.

Can you do it?

Yes,

I can do it.

Oh,

and then later,

Oh,

by the way,

there's a rehearsal now.

Now they're not making 200 a service.

Now they're making 100 a service because now we have a rehearsal and that's

just,

that's kind of bad form,

but knowing the money,

knowing how much it is before you talk to them,

before you,

you nail them down because you want to give your players as much information

to,

to make a,

a,

an educated decision on whether or not they can make it or not.

Let me ask you this,

Dave,

with rock of ages,

did you know that you were going to have to be in costume for the show?

And how was that presented?

To you?

Oh,

I was told out of the get go,

I was going to be on stage and be in costume.

Now I could have,

I could have just kind of accepted the costume they gave us,

but none of us were really crazy about it.

And so I just,

I,

it was a decision I made,

you know,

I'm going to go spend $20 on,

you know,

on this rush shirt,

another $20 on the,

like a biker vest.

And it was something that I,

I made a decision as a performer that this was best for me.

And this is the kind of,

this is,

I mean,

this is the same reason that,

teachers buy their own chalk and actors,

actors buy their own makeup.

You know what I mean?

And I treated it like that.

And so not to mention like tolls and,

and other,

other,

other things that,

that get involved with it.

And at some point,

like with rock of ages,

the opportunity rocket rock of ages was one of my bucket list shows that I,

I've always wanted to do.

West side story is another one of those bucket list shows.

I just,

I haven't had the opportunity to do it.

Ironically,

I got offered one side story,

but I was already booked for rock.

So I had two bucket list shows.

And the other one was that like the Orlando Shakespeare theater,

really kind of prestigious show.

And it's probably going to win all kinds of awards,

but anyway,

hopefully rock of ages will too.

Anyway.

And so a little tear comes down.

I mean,

there there's,

you know,

poop,

poop jokes and white snake songs versus Leonard Bernstein.

That's,

that's,

that's a,

that's a tough sell to the award.

But,

but,

but no,

I just,

you know,

actors buy their own makeup and they buy their own,

like,

you know,

face mic tape and,

and any situations it's a tax write off for sure.

Oh,

absolutely.

And not to mention that I've,

I've recently joined,

joined,

um,

QuickBooks has a self-employed website,

which ties into your bank account.

And so you can do all the tax write off stuff right there.

Oh my gosh.

I'm so excited about QuickBooks self-employed.

Um,

but anyway,

anyway,

so it's,

it's all tax writeable,

all,

all of it,

all the,

the mileage,

all the tolls,

everything.

It's all tax writeable,

tax write offable.

I don't think that's the right verb.

We need a better word for that.

Yeah,

we do.

Um,

so,

so knowing the gig times,

including rehearsals,

knowing where the venue is located,

you know,

tell,

tell them,

Hey,

this is a local gig.

It's this long.

The rehearsals here and the rehearsals this long,

what gear they'll need to bring.

If there's a drum set,

there is make sure it's not an electronic kit,

you know,

especially with like keyboardists and pianists,

uh,

telling them that they're,

Hey,

there's already piano there.

There's already keyboard there.

Like we,

we rehearse,

uh,

at our church.

And so anytime I,

I have a rehearsal,

I'm like,

Hey,

there's already a drum set there.

There's a bass amp there.

There's a piano there.

And that,

that's,

that's all very,

anytime a musician doesn't have to load in,

then that makes it infinitely easier.

Then it's just time.

But as soon as you have to start schlepping gear,

especially for me as a drummer,

that was just why I was so excited about that jazz gig that had an electronic kit.

But it's,

it's tricky as a music director.

I don't know about you,

Dave,

but when I've done MD shows for theaters,

I've been responsible for securing sort of,

uh,

outlandish gear,

things like timpanis or harps or,

um,

you know,

just sort of odd instruments that you might have to go to a specialty rental

place.

Uh,

it might be schedule,

uh,

ordering and scheduling a grand piano for use of the performance.

Now,

now it's not your responsibility to pay for it,

but you are expected to handle it.

You are expected to line it up.

Like with this Christmas show,

I'm in,

I'm in charge of scheduling the rehearsals,

making sure that all the players are available,

not just finding the venue,

but,

you know,

we have one of the singers is local and other singers is up in Jacksonville.

And so it's,

you know,

she's going to be driving down and,

and,

and the venue details.

And,

and I'll talk about venue details here in a minute,

but,

uh,

also,

uh,

dealing with W nines,

like for,

um,

uh,

for friends,

you know,

where as soon as,

as soon as you get paid over,

I think it's $600,

then you need to start thinking about 10 99s and those kinds of things.

And so I'm dealing with W nines.

I'm dealing with contracts.

So I'm the one communicating.

Here's your contract.

I need your W nine,

which means that yes,

you are,

you will be given people's social security numbers.

And that is not a responsibility you should take lightly.

That is highly personal information that we have to keep on top of and their contracts

and their signatures and everything.

And so dealing with all that paperwork,

that's all part of,

of booking,

booking,

booking the band.

And it starts with people you trust,

but then it turns into all these other kinds of details.

And so,

you know,

being able to keep up with paperwork and,

and,

and dealing with multiple emails,

kind of all flying around at one time and somebody can't make it,

or somebody said they can make it and now can't.

And then how do you deal with it?

Because they didn't find a sub and all these other kinds of things.

So booking the band,

I think booking the bands probably the most important aspect,

because if you have good people,

then that almost guarantees that you're going to have a good show.

Starts with good people,

people you can trust and people that are just that you enjoy being around people that are cool to be with people that are kind,

are patient.

Yeah,

that's,

those are all qualities for me as a music director.

I put those qualities over their ability to play.

Now,

obviously you got to play,

but if you can play and you're awesome to hang out with and you're just cool and nice,

then you're going to get the gig.

If you are awesome and a tool,

I have no interest in working with you again,

because I don't need that energy.

I don't need that energy.

You know,

I don't mean to all sound like new agey or whatever,

but I just don't need that energy for the gig.

I have so many other things to deal with.

So that is,

but is there anything else you wanted to talk about booking the band and getting personnel in place?

You know,

I,

I will take lesser player,

a lesser quality player for a better attitude.

Yep.

100% of the time.

I don't necessarily need,

you know,

Jocko Pistorius on base.

I need,

I need Carol cage is just super cool to be around,

you know,

and,

you know,

able to play the gig and stuff like that.

But,

um,

attitude when you're going to be in the pit and you're working in a show,

you get really close,

really fast.

And you spend a lot of time,

especially if you're doing a show like rock of ages,

where we,

you know,

we are,

we're up on stage,

very,

very close quarters and we all have to act and,

and,

you know,

we're in dressing rooms together and all this stuff.

And,

and you,

and one of the aspects of being cool is not just being nice,

but being cool with the arrangement,

you know,

not,

not like saying,

Oh,

we ain't getting paid enough for this crap or,

you know,

or grumbling about having to have,

have a rehearsal.

As far as I'm concerned,

as soon as you say,

Hey,

I've agreed to this gig.

If you're not okay with the money,

don't agree to the gig.

Just don't,

don't agree with,

don't,

don't agree to it.

If it's not worth your time and this say,

Hey,

I'm only getting paid 200 bucks and I don't want to do a rehearsal.

Then,

then don't do the gig.

I'll find someone else who,

who can,

they might not be the perfect player.

They might not be the best fit musically,

but if you're going to take the gig and grumble about the cash or drum,

grumble about,

Hey,

I need to pay tolls or,

or I'm going to have to pay for,

for parking validation or any of those kinds of things,

or they're not feeding us,

or you gotta be,

you gotta be cool with all those details.

Cause if you're not,

then all you're doing is just bringing bad energy into the gig and nobody is

happy because everybody senses it.

You know,

if there's someone who's pissed off in the,

in the,

in the band,

everyone senses it.

They might not actually say it,

but everyone's like,

man,

this,

this gig ain't going great.

And I feel gross and icky because there's somebody not happy,

happy.

So if you're not happy with the money,

don't take the gig.

Yeah.

If you can't roll with the punches.

And as a music director,

if you are,

and I understand that times get tough and you're like,

your back is against the wall and you have a deadline looming and you've got

to line somebody up.

But if you have someone who,

but if you have someone who is who you are sensing is not going to be okay

with some,

some detail,

cut them loose,

just cut,

cut them loose.

They're not worth your time.

It's,

it's worth exploring and finding another person who is going to be happy to be

there,

who is going to be cool to work with and who's not going to complain about

the money,

especially,

or the fact that there's a rehearsal.

And I know my,

my,

my singer is really sensitive to this,

right?

She's like,

uh,

because I was booking for,

for a thing.

And,

uh,

there were,

got a little bit of pushback on the rehearsal and she's like,

well,

let's find somebody else.

I was like,

well,

you know,

I,

I trusted this guy and I want to make sure I'm not like reading between the

lines and the text and make sure,

making sure that what he is saying is,

is what he means.

And,

and not,

you know,

I'm not trying to infer something that he's not actually saying,

because he did give me a little bit of pushback about needing a rehearsal for

this Christmas gig.

But the singer was like,

nope,

no,

I don't even want to deal with it because he's like,

I don't even want to deal with it because she's super sensitive to that.

Not in like a diva kind of way,

but she's,

she's,

she knows if you have people that are there that aren't happy to be there,

then,

then that just dump takes a dump on everybody's experience.

So as an MD,

you have to be able to kind of sniff that stuff out.

You have to be able to say,

Hey,

I'm feeling some pushback,

be willing to,

to cut them loose,

to find someone else who will be happy to be there.

And I guarantee you,

even though they might not be as good of a player,

you will have a better performance.

All right.

So that is dealing with people.

As music director,

you also have to deal with the venue.

And a lot of this is like pre-production sound needs.

You know,

what,

what type of a sound system are they going to have?

Do we need to bring our own?

Do I need to arrange a hiring a sound guy?

Does that sound guy just have the gear or is the sound guy going to show up

with gear and run the sound?

And this is another networking thing,

finding someone you can trust.

And I'm super lucky.

I have a guy that I work with at Full Sail who,

who just bought a bunch of sound gear.

I wouldn't necessarily call him quote,

quote unquote,

a sound guy,

but he's like,

I just got the gear.

I want to try it out.

And I tried him out for a,

a jazz gig at like the Ritz Carlton.

And,

uh,

I know it was fancy that load out and load in sucked.

Anyway.

Oh my gosh.

I'm PTSD on that load in man.

Um,

but,

uh,

I was like,

you know what?

I'll take a shot.

He cut me a really good deal,

uh,

as far and,

and then he ended up getting the gig at our church because he,

uh,

w our,

our sound guy at church,

uh,

left.

And I'm like,

you know what?

This guy did a great job at the Ritz.

He's doing a great job here.

I like him at work and I know he's not like a technically trained sound guy,

but he has an awesome attitude.

He's super nice to work with and yeah,

let's give him a shot.

And he might not be able to tell you,

you know,

all the different RF frequencies that every wireless system needs to be on in

order to not have interference.

But a,

he'll learn and B he's just easy to work with.

And so he,

he,

I tried him out on this one gig and it's kind of,

it's,

it's splintered off into all of these other opportunities for him.

And he's,

he's my go-to.

He's,

he's going to run sound for,

uh,

for the Christmas gig that's coming up.

Sweet.

And yeah.

And,

uh,

and he's super easy to work with.

And so finding sound person,

finding sound gear,

uh,

also understanding stage needs.

Like when I did the Ritz thing,

uh,

they were like,

okay,

how much voltage do you need?

I'm like,

uh,

Thomas Edison,

Tesla.

I'm like,

and so,

so I,

I had 21 gigawatts of power.

I had to educate myself.

And so I basically,

and I told him,

uh,

I'm sorry.

And I didn't like play all like,

uh,

point extra nerdy.

You know,

I was like,

Hey,

I'll find that information out for you.

Uh,

here's,

here's the next number of amps.

And so he was able,

uh,

to,

uh,

help out with that.

Uh,

they also wanted a stage plot.

And so I just opened up keynote or if you have a PowerPoint or,

or MS paint or something,

you know,

I just did up a little thing and learned that,

you know,

rental companies,

generally,

generally rent stages and four by eight sections.

And so I need,

you know,

24 by 12 or,

or 24 by however size,

I think it was 24 by,

uh,

it might've been 24 by 16.

And just for clarification,

a stage plot is,

is a diagram or a,

uh,

is a diagram or a map.

Correct.

Uh,

of,

you know,

where,

uh,

bass drums,

where everything is going to be.

And the reason that's important,

uh,

is for both for lighting,

sound,

electricity,

and which,

uh,

which was a shocker for me.

The first time I did an MD in a,

in a,

in a really nice theater safety.

Um,

I had to take,

I don't know about you,

Dave,

but I had to take a,

a safety course for a certain theater because number one,

there was,

um,

uh,

we were going to be on a scaffolding,

like,

uh,

on,

we were,

I did the show 13 and the show has got,

you know,

the,

the band is like 20 feet,

30 feet up in the air and you got the scaffolding is being built.

And then it also had pyrotechnics.

So,

uh,

safety concerns are also a big part of it.

Yeah.

Make sure your stage plot is to scale,

which is,

yeah,

it does.

It doesn't matter.

Yeah.

I could fit 18 people on this four by eight.

No,

it's not going to be that kind of stuff.

Really?

I nerd out when do I'm like,

Oh,

I want to make sure there's my bass drum and there's my amp and the amps are right size

and the keyboards are right size.

The cool thing is,

is once you have all those assets kind of built in a presentation,

I use keynote personally because it's all squares and it's really easy to use.

And like Photoshop is way overkill.

Uh,

yeah,

I use overkill.

I use Visio,

but,

uh,

Microsoft Visio,

but then I use it in my day to day work.

So,

so I use keynote in my day to day as the lecture tool,

uh,

but,

um,

or there,

I'm not at full sale now,

but they're at full sale.

And so once you have all those assets built,

then you understand,

Hey,

my keyboard is this size and my drum sets this size.

And,

you know,

knowing where direct boxes are going to,

uh,

land,

where,

where you need power,

the drum set doesn't need power,

but maybe the drum set needs a stand light,

or maybe the I'm writing upright bass that needs a microphone and a stand light and a

music stand.

And so,

so,

uh,

having a stage plot for sound needs for,

uh,

as well.

And then understanding if it's indoor or outdoor,

if it's an indoor gig,

then you can get away with less sound support.

If it's an outdoor gig,

like this,

uh,

this Ritz gig was as Ritz Carlton gig,

and then you need a lot more sound because,

because your amps are just going to completely disappear.

This thing,

uh,

this Christmas gig coming up as an indoor space,

probably it's,

uh,

for a,

uh,

for like a retreat,

it's in a retreat center.

And so it's really kind of close,

maybe a hundred,

hundred guests.

And,

uh,

you can just use amp volume and then we just needed sound support for the

vocalists.

And,

and off we go.

No,

no problem.

So no,

knowing those details,

knowing the directions to the venue,

um,

knowing,

being able to provide,

uh,

addresses to your,

to your,

your band mates and,

and map mapping and those kinds of things.

All right.

So any,

anything else you want to talk about,

uh,

venue,

anything that I didn't cover venue details?

Uh,

all right.

And if you're dealing with,

um,

if you're dealing with like a theater and even any venue,

but really,

especially theaters is a load in and having load in and load out,

uh,

details.

I know with,

uh,

with the,

the pew theater here in Orlando,

it's gorgeous theater,

but I'm,

I'm not necessarily convinced it was designed for the performer.

For example,

there's no ramp in the loading dock.

Oh,

oh yeah,

no,

there's no rain.

Oh my gosh.

Like,

uh,

the second floor,

there's two theaters in the Dr.

Phillips center.

There's like the Walt Disney theater,

which is really big plush theater,

which is awesome.

And they have a gorgeous green room with bathrooms and water fountains and a vending machine.

The smaller theater,

which is like a black box theater,

which is really just a small kind of intimate 300 seat theater.

Um,

they don't have any water fountains on the second floor and you can't get to the stage

door without going through the Disney theater.

The Disney green room,

which means that if there's,

if there's,

uh,

if there's an act in,

in the Disney theater,

then you can't walk through their green room.

If it's not,

then you can just go through no problem,

but you can't actually get,

you have to go out the loading docks,

which is,

you know,

where all the trash compactors are.

And,

and so,

yeah,

it's just weird weirdness.

So having load in details,

the Ritz Carlton load in issue,

we had to load in through their loading docks,

but,

uh,

schlepping gear,

uh,

through the kitchen and stuff.

I,

I did a gig,

uh,

at,

uh,

like the Orlando world Marriott,

which is near Disney world.

And that I can either walk about 400 feet using ramps,

or I can walk about 50 feet,

but go up these enormous stairs.

And so,

yeah,

just,

just having that,

that information for your,

your people,

uh,

when they need to be there,

what type,

what type of load in and what type of load,

if there's help there,

if there's elevators and those,

those kinds of things.

And then,

I don't know about you,

Dave,

but I've definitely been in load in and load out situations where I've got a hotel manager

or someone that,

that wants to,

you know,

can the whole process or,

uh,

you know,

is,

is being really difficult.

You might've negotiated something with the director and then you actually get to the

venue and then you've got either a stage manager or,

you know,

I've had to deal with some very difficult personalities when it came to,

you know,

how stage managers,

uh,

where like,

this is my house and,

you know,

all things come through me and,

you know,

learning,

negotiating processes and understanding things like scarf principle.

And,

uh,

what,

what is,

what is scarf?

Uh,

scarf is a,

is an acronym we use for,

uh,

means status,

certainty,

autonomy,

relatedness and fairness.

Uh,

we kind of understand,

um,

you know,

why they're,

why are they being difficult?

Does this relate to their autonomy?

Does this relate to,

you know,

sense of fairness or certainty or,

uh,

or whatever?

Because,

you know,

we,

we work in the arts community and there are all kinds of personalities that

make up this arts community.

So being able to negotiate or,

or,

or being able to,

um,

deescalate situations,

uh,

is a very,

very helpful as a music director.

Yeah.

I,

I have found it can be really challenging.

Like if you're doing a,

a jazz ball gig,

usually what happens is you'll have,

um,

you'll have an organization will come in.

Like the Ritz Carlton was a perfect example.

Uh,

Ritz Carlton,

even though it happened at the Ritz Carlton,

I wasn't booked by the Ritz Carlton.

I was booked by an organization who was helping to manage another organization having an event.

So this organization comes,

the,

the company is having an event at the Ritz Carlton.

The company hires,

uh,

another company to manage the event.

And those people are the ones who hire the caterers,

the,

the party.

And they're the ones who hire the,

the decorators and,

and every everybody.

And they hired the band as well.

And so dealing with the management company who is then dealing with the,

the actual hotel.

And so working out like things like Green Rooms and that,

that can be,

and in case you don't know what a Green Room is,

Green Room is usually a place backstage somewhere or a place set aside for the band or,

or actors or whoever,

to,

to the,

to take a look long at this,

I,

To have just kind of downtime, chill space.

Usually there's like water and snacks and those kind of things.

And so, you know, dealing with green rooms or dressing rooms and those kind of details.

So if you're dealing with like a hotel staff, you're often dealing with a management company and not the hotel staff directly.

I know with Dr. Phillips Center, we had to have Dr. Phillips staff there the whole time.

There were two guys running who are the theater people who their job was not to help us, even though they were awesome.

And even though I'm like, the Dr. Phillips Center doesn't have a loading ramp and they don't have, you know, they don't have a stage door for the Black Box Theater.

The people themselves were completely awesome.

They were completely awesome.

But even though I'm a drummer that was hired by a theater company, the theater company is renting out the space from the Dr. Phillips Center.

And the Dr. Phillips Center have their own people in place.

And we.

You know, TheaterWorks has our stage manager as well.

And I have a music director who answers to the stage manager, who answers to the director and blah, blah, blah.

So a lot of people are involved.

And this is where patience and this having great attitude all comes into place.

All comes into play.

All right.

So let's.

So those are the venue details that you often have to manage and you often have to at least know about.

So let's talk about rehearsals.

Let's say you've got your people in place.

They're hired.

They're happy to be there.

Let's talk about rehearsals and scheduling rehearsals, meaning finding the venue, finding where you're going to have rehearsals.

Sometimes that might be somebody's house.

Sometimes that might be a church.

Sometimes that might be a local, like your local union.

I know here in Orlando, the local union has a rehearsal space that union members can not rent, but they can actually sign out and you can sign up for it.

And it's not a great space at all.

It's basically a concrete structure, like cinder block structure, but it's a rehearsal space.

You know, sometimes.

Sometimes like at the Dr.

Phillips Center, they actually have a rehearsal space that you can rent along with the stage space as well.

And it's cool.

It has mirrors and it's, it's, it's really, it's easy.

The load in for the rehearsal space was simple.

The Pew Theater, not so much, but that's a whole other story.

That's a whole other story.

So scheduling rehearsals and more importantly, running the rehearsals, keeping, keeping up with timekeeping, making sure that people are there on time.

Tell people when the downbeat is right.

Okay.

So if we have a rehearsal at six, that doesn't mean show up at six.

That means downbeat at six.

That means we are going to start running the music at six.

Some people get that.

I get that.

If I have a rehearsal starting at six, then I need to be there no later than a half an hour early so I can set up my drums and everything else.

Sometimes you have to communicate that and communicate your expectations.

And that's when you're talking about call, call times versus start times and going that way.

And you see that a lot of times.

In theater, you'll get call times versus start, start times, but it's, it's not a bad idea to even, even do that.

If it's, if it's just a jazz gig, if you have a rehearsal, here's your call time and here's your start time.

And if you want to communicate that for the venue itself, here's your call time and your start time.

Generally call times tend to be, especially with when you have load in and set up for a gig an hour ahead of time.

So if, if I need to be set up and ready, I, I have to be ready.

I have a gig coming up, uh, a wedding gig that I'm music directing and, uh, I need to be done and set up by two because guests are going to start arriving at two.

That means my call time is one o'clock.

So, so communicate those kinds of things as well to your band members so that they know that they can budget and they could decide whether or not the money is worth it or not.

But call time versus start time, knowing that, knowing when your breaks are and being really fair.

You know, I, I really respect music directors who are, this is what we're going to do and we are going to bust it.

But once we hit this time, we're going to take a break, no matter where we are.

No more, Oh, five more minutes.

No, we hit a break.

Let's hit our break.

And I'm going to give everybody a 15, a solid 15 minutes.

We're going to all walk away, get some air, maybe go grab a drink or do whatever you need to do.

And then we're going to come back and, and finish where we, where we stopped.

The music directors that I've really appreciated in the past have excellent structure.

And follow that structure so that all of the expectations are communicated beforehand.

That's right.

No unexpressed expectations.

It's so managing expectations is, is so important when dealing with people.

Because people, if you don't give them an expectation, if you don't tell them what you expect, they're going to create their own expectations.

And whether or not those expectations are true or not, it will become reality for them unless that is altered in some way.

And so if their, if their reality is we're going to get a 15 minute break because they expect a 15 minute break and you don't give them a 15 minute break,

then what's going to happen is when, when they feel, man, we should really have taken a break, then that's going to start seeding bitterness or resentment.

It might not be that, you know, it might not actually coalesce into that, but that little seed is there, but always managing your expectations, communicating plenty ahead of time.

I always talk about breaks.

I always,

I always honor my breaks whenever I'm running rehearsals.

Okay.

Also managing charts, gathering the charts.

If you're, sometimes you are doing customer arrangements.

I'm doing customer arrangements for Natalie Cordon and Sean Kilgore.

I'm working on them right now.

It's a, it's a lounge, lounge versions of all these 80s, 80s tunes.

So that's a lot of fun.

They, they, and here they saw me do my friend's show, which were like lounge arrangements of 80 songs.

And they loved it.

And they want to build a whole show based.

And they want to build a whole show based off all these different arrangements and medleys and I've already done like a Madonna medley and everything.

So it's a lot of fun, but I'm doing custom arrangements if you're not doing custom arrangements, like a, I'm not doing custom arrangements for this wedding gig I have coming up in a couple of weeks.

It's a, it's a matter of gathering the charts and whether they're PDF charts or whether you're using a real book, if it's a jazz gig, I always send out PDFs and here in one, just one PDF with all the charts in the order.

You can also use like apps like I real pro,

which allows you, uh, to, to have just the chord changes.

I, that's especially handy if you're dealing with a vocalist, cause you can change keys and everything on the fly.

Yeah, right.

Exactly.

So even, uh, regarding charts and arrangements as a music director, it is your job to know the arrangements and even the chord changes.

So if you're practicing and rehearsing and you hear something off that, you know, and this is part of that multi-threading thing, you, you know, Hey, that, that's, that's not the right chord or, or this isn't, this isn't sounding right.

What's going on?

And this is where you have to kind of put on your conductor hat and you have to say, okay, this, this, something, something is a miss and I'm able to, I'm able to troubleshoot why this is sounding off and knowing the arrangements.

And if they're your own custom arrangements, and that means charts and getting into Sibelius or doing, I, for this 80s night, I do, uh, I'm doing backing tracks and, uh, or demo tracks, I should say, where just because I can put them in, into Logic Pro and do that.

And I don't, I don't think everybody's expected to be able to do that, but it's.

Definitely a value added resource.

Yeah.

And that, and that makes you more employable.

Right.

And so, uh, but being able to write out in Sibelius, uh, being able to read music is, is almost a requirement at this point, which I know many drummers are at a disadvantage because, you know, we can all admit that playing drums doesn't necessarily always require a great, a great amount of music theory knowledge.

But as soon as you start getting into the director, music director, MD type or bandmaster, then yeah.

Yeah.

You need, you need to know how to read charts and I'm not talking about just rhythms, but understanding chord progressions and chord changes and all, all those kinds of things.

Because as you're practicing, as you're rehearsing or in the show, you have to multi-thread.

You have to, the, the part of the capacity that you can't be dialed into your own parts means that you have to have the awareness about what the other, other musicians are playing.

So if you hear something off, you're able to, to call it out.

Or let's say, let's say a singer drops a line or they come in a bar late or they come in, they forget.

You get to come in and you're able to tell people, okay, we need to back up four measures or let's pick it up at the D minor seven chord and, and communicate those, those kinds of things.

And then one of sort of the thing, I just want to interject in there.

Sometimes it's also shaping the sound as a music director, that is your responsibility.

So recently on a jazz gig I did a couple of months ago, we had a guitar player and a singer and the guitar player was playing some really interesting.

But still worked absolutely still work some very interesting chord voicings.

And I just said, Hey, she's having a little trouble picking up her notes.

Can you just play some drop three voicings through this section?

And he looked at me like, okay, as, as in you're a drummer, how do you know about guitar stuff?

I didn't tell him I play guitar too.

And he did went through and it, it helps really shape the, it helped really shape that gig to the point where it.

It works so well that he started to, he started to dial it back.

So he was, he was pulling out some of his best Pat Metheny impressions, but when he realized how good just dialing it back worked, you know, he played the rest of the gig like that.

And on other occasions when I've done music directing, you know, bass players making, you know, when they in their chart, they've got just walk, you know, play a walking baseline and they make musical choices.

And maybe those musical choices aren't gelling really well with the piano.

That's for me, that's where that 50% of situational awareness.

You can't be spending more than 50%.

Of what you're playing, uh, because you need to be aware of what's happening around you.

So part of the music director role, isn't just when bad notes happen, it's also helping to shape the taste of the music and the style of the music and being aware that, that if a singer is struggling, um, or if a guitar player is, is, or, or a horn player or someone is starting to do their best dig me chop, uh, chop thing.

How can you communicate with them to either dial it back or just as like, Hey, you know, let's see what your best Pat Metheny impression is here.

Yeah.

And, and, and you, you've got to know the music better than anybody else, not just the tempos, tempos are, are, that's a given you've got to know the tempos, uh, but you've got to know that you've got to know the charts.

You got to know where the chords are.

You got to know where the verses and choruses and everything else.

You've got to know what the lyrics are.

And so if somebody, if the singer sings the wrong lyric and they've jumped into verse three instead of verse two, you've got to be able to roll with that.

And so just.

Situational awareness and really knowing, knowing what's up.

So maybe music director, maybe you're listening to this and you're like, heck no, I want no part of that.

That's, that's okay.

That's completely okay.

You don't, not everyone has to be a music director.

As a matter of fact, not everyone should be a music director because if some of these things are freak you out, if the idea of like arranging the sound, the sound system and finding a sound guy or the idea of running rehearsals.

And being the, the timekeeper during call times and start times and fussing at people for coming back late from break and trying to keep everything, everything going and running smoothly.

If that feels like you're, I don't want to be a narc about that, then it's not for you.

There are people who, who make perfectly good livings having never done any music directing.

But if some of this excites you and you're like, you know what?

I'm, I think I'm ready to do it.

Then go for it.

Ask, ask for an opportunity.

And then do that opportunity well.

And I think you can find it.

I think you'll find it really rewarding.

I know I find it really rewarding and it provides for me.

And one of the reasons I really like doing it, it's, it's like another level of performance.

You know, it's like a conductor, somebody, there's a quote.

I might be from like Steve Jobs movie or whatever, but they talk about the orchestra plays the notes.

The conductor plays the orchestra.

Yeah.

It's, it's kind of.

It's like that.

And, and, and being in more of a leadership role, a directorial role.

I mean, there's not, everyone can be actors, right?

Not everyone needs to be actors.

Not everyone gets fulfilled by just acting.

Not everyone gets fulfilled just by showing up, playing, and then getting a check.

And for, for me, it opened up so many doors.

It opened, for me, it opened up things like Tokyo Disney and Dollywood.

And it just, you know, it opened up so many doors.

You know, you, I hate to say you're limited when you're the side man, because if you've

got dreams of grandeur or just want to network more, taking on music director roles, and

Dave, you feel free to chime in here.

When I started doing MD work, it opened up so many other doors to so many other things

than, than I would have ever experienced as just a side man.

Yep.

And it's, we've long since talked about versatility.

And, and it's something I talk, talk to my full-sale students all the time.

I'm like, if you want to make a living making music, you can't just do the one thing.

Now, if that's all you want to do, and you want to keep your day job, and you want to

be a weekend warrior, play your drums, and get paid in beer, there is nothing wrong with

that.

I am not disparaging that at all.

But if you want to make a living making music, then you have to be versatile.

You have to bring multiple things to the table, whether that's writing charts, or being a

music director, or composing, or playing drums.

Or playing drum set, or playing drum set, and vibraphone, and marching drum.

And so, there's many different aspects to this.

And so, for me, being a music director just allows me, allows me to, to have another thing

that I can do that helps me continue to make a living making music in the music industry.

And, and that's not just gigging.

It's not just composing.

Right?

It'd be awesome if I was, you know, the John Williams, Alan Silvestri, that would be awesome.

It'd be awesome if I was Jojo.

Uh, Jojo Mayer, or Zorro, just going around doing clinics and getting paid to play drums.

That would be awesome.

It'd be awesome if I was just a music director up on Broadway, and I did the same show, you

know, for, for eight years.

That would be cool and fun.

But those, those, those are, are singular opportunities that are, that are pretty rare.

And for the rest of us mortal, mortal people, you know, we, we can cobble together by, by

all these different aspects, and having multiple ways that we can continue to support ourselves

in, in music.

And so.

And, and also, I mean, and finally here, many times there's more money in being an

MD, right?

That you, you, the way I like to do it is either get paid a flat fee, like a flat music

director fee, or a percentage over whatever you're paying the, uh, the rest of the band.

So if you're paying the band, uh, a hundred dollars, then I would get, you know, a hundred

dollars plus 15 or 20%.

So I might get 120 or 140 or whatever.

Because anybody who, who, who recognizes all of these things that we've been talking

about this whole time, you know, booking, running the show, venue details, rehearsals,

charts, that, that, that, that is worth something.

And so people that understand that, they will, uh, they'll appreciate that and they'll pay

extra for that.

So, uh, every time, uh, every time I've done music directing, I usually get paid a little

bit more.

And I also give a lot more.

You know, I'm, I'm, I'm doing charts.

I'm doing custom arrangements.

Yeah, that, that's worth something.

I'm booking the sound guy and I'm running rehearsals and I'm, and I'm making sure that

I'm sending out stage plots.

That's worth something.

So if you're, if you're working with someone as a music director, it's totally okay to

ask for more money, but just, uh, be fair and understand that, um, that, or, or have

a, have a strategy, whether or not you want to get paid an additional percentage or a

flat fee for that.

Generally, if I'm dealing with charts, it's a flat fee.

If it's just arranging, then I'll ask for a percentage.

That's been kind of my experience.

Yeah.

Generally it's, it's, uh, I kind of have my, my MD fee and my sideband fee.

Yep.

This tune was the opening of act two in Rock of Ages.

Uh, but hopefully you've gotten some really good ideas and maybe you're either excited

to possibly be a music director.

Yeah.

You are terrified.

That's completely, completely okay.

Music directing is not for everybody.

And, uh, I would encourage you to try it.

If you don't like it, stop, stop trying it.

And feel free to ask us questions too.

You know, there's no way we can cover, uh, everything it means to be a music director.

And if you're a music director now and you've got a question, you know, ask us.

Yeah.

There is, um, I don't, there, there might be a little bit of bias towards drummers being

music directors, but, um, but I think as, as long as you do a good job, you're going to

do a good job.

People kind of get over that.

And it might even be a subconscious bias.

It can be really tough in theater because at that point now you're hiring a, uh, like

a rehearsal pianist.

It's not impossible.

And many music directors for theater gigs actually have rehearsal pianists so that they

show up and they can like control and, and work with singers and everything.

And they have a separate pianist whose job is just to sit there and play all the mind

numbing parts during, um, during the, uh, the actual rehearsals.

So, so yeah.

Cool, cool, cool.

Well, that's going to do it for us today.

We've got some final countdown in the background.

Hey, you can find out when new articles and next episodes hit by following us up on Twitter

at twitter.com slash drummer talk, as well as Facebook at facebook.com slash drummer

talk.

If you have a topic suggestion or a question for the show, please let us know at drummer

talk.org slash contact as well as social media, man.

I'm looking forward to, uh, to that, uh, that seventies Harlem Christmas carols.

That sounds like fun.

It does sound.

Sound like fun like that.

Yeah.

So, uh, so that should be a lot of fun and, uh, we're going to try, try to have a show

next week, but I think as we, as we kind of clamber clamber clamor towards the end of

the year here, uh, just be continue your patience with us, but, uh, we are, we're back on track.

We have, uh, it won't be another three months before we have another show.

Uh, and if you guys have any topic suggestions or questions for the show, please let us know.

Drum and talk is copyright 2016, eight 18 studios, all rights reserved, all wrongs avenged

music played on the podcast remains copyrighted, their respective owners, and is used for educational

purposes.

Only we put when possible, we put links to the music played in our show and you can check

out the show for today, October 13th, 2016 episode number 273 for Troy dares.

I have been your host, Dave Croft until next time.

Peace.

The final countdown.