Meet the Press NOW — September 5

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If it's Thursday, high drama in federal court

as Hunter Biden prepares to plead guilty in his federal tax case

in a surprise move with the trial about to start.

Plus, it's official.

The rules are set. The mics are off.

The debate is on, and the expectation games begin

as Vice President Harris and former President Trump

prepare for their first matchup on the big stage just five days away.

And new disturbing revelations in the investigation into that deadly high school shooting in Georgia yesterday

that killed two students and two teachers

as the teenage suspect is charged with four counts of felony murder.

Welcome to Meet the Press Now.

I'm Kristen Welker in Washington.

We begin with breaking news from the courtroom in Los Angeles

where Hunter Biden has been sworn in

and is preparing to enter a guilty plea in his federal tax trial.

It comes after a wild day of drama at the court

as federal prosecutors began the day expecting to begin jury selection in this case.

But just moments after the judge explained how jury selection would work,

Hunter Biden's lawyers unexpectedly announced that he wanted to change his plea.

The plea he initially wanted to enter didn't include an admission of guilt.

But the special counsel was adamant that it would not accept that kind of a plea deal.

After some back and forth and a late afternoon recess,

Hunter Biden returned to the courtroom moments ago

to plead guilty but without a deal with prosecutors.

He is facing three felony and six misdemeanor counts

for failing to pay his taxes over several years.

All of this comes after...

After a plea deal he struck last year with the government fell apart,

which eventually led to his conviction on felony gun charges at trial back in June.

Joining me now is NBC News correspondent David Noriega

outside the courthouse in Los Angeles.

Also with me is Carol Lamb, former U.S. attorney and an NBC News legal analyst.

David, take us inside the courtroom.

A lot of different moving parts today.

What's the very latest?

And walk us through what happened.

Yeah, Kristen, a lot of twists and turns.

Currently, as we speak in this federal courthouse behind me,

Hunter Biden is on the stand under oath preparing to offer a guilty plea in this case.

Leo Wise, the special prosecutor, is reading the indictment into the record,

which is a necessary part of that process,

after which we expect the judge to ask Hunter Biden a number of questions

about whether he has adequate counsel and understands the consequences of a guilty plea

and, crucially, whether he factually admits guilt in this case.

So to back up, as you pointed out, this morning,

shortly after proceedings started,

Hunter Biden's legal team announced his intention to change his plea to not to guilty, rather,

but they were trying to pull a maneuver that involved a sort of unusual, special kind of guilty plea

known as an Alford plea, in which you accept a conviction and eventually a sentence,

but you maintain your factual innocence.

You do not admit to any wrongdoing.

We're now, for Hunter Biden to take the stand and offer what's known as an open plea,

meaning a plea with no agreement with the prosecution,

essentially putting his hands in the fate, putting his fate in the hands of the judge,

saying, I am guilty, sentence me as you wish.

To do that, he does need to admit guilt,

but we won't know that that is what he's done until he has explicitly done so on the stand.

It has been a dramatic day in court.

Like I said, a lot of twists and turns.

We're imminently, possibly, going to see the end of this case

and the potential jurors released from this building,

and at that point, we will basically be waiting for the judge to schedule a sentencing hearing at some point in the future.

Kristen?

It is just incredibly dramatic, David,

and just you think about how the day started, where we are now,

anticipating this potential guilty plea.

Can you just walk us through how prosecutors have reacted to all of this as it's unfolded, David?

Yeah, so Hunter Biden's legal team's kind of gambit this morning of trying to enter a plea,

but a plea that did not involve an admission of guilt,

was met with very strenuous opposition from the special prosecutor's office.

Leo Wise said several times into the record that Hunter Biden is not innocent.

Hunter Biden is guilty.

The Department of Justice wants

Hunter Biden to be on the record in a court of law

as guilty of committing the acts put forth in the indictment.

They were also very resistant to Biden's legal team's efforts to sort of rush this plea through the court today.

Abby Lowell, Biden's attorney,

was trying to convince the judge that the facts were such that the judge could accept an Alford plea on the face of it.

Today, the government was, again, strenuously opposed to that.

They were saying that if there was going to be an Alford plea they needed,

at least, a day to come up with a substantive response to explain why they were opposed to such a conclusion.

And the judge was receptive to the DOJ's claims here.

It seemed very unlikely that the judge was going to accept an Alford plea at least today.

And that's the point at which we saw Hunter Biden agree to take the stand and offer what, again,

we expect is likely to be a straightforward guilty plea with an admission of guilt.

But like I said, I want to keep caveating this.

We won't know that that's what's happened until it has actually happened, Kristen.

And that is the update that we're waiting for right now.

Well, keep us posted, David.

We're going to come back to you if we get any update from inside that courtroom.

Carol, let me go to you.

I mean, David just mapped out how dramatic the twists and turns,

the fact that this day started with discussion of an Alford plea deal to a potential guilty plea deal.

What's the strategy at play here?

Well, Kristen, now that we know that Hunter Biden, at least we think,

he's willing to actually enter a real guilty plea to the indictment,

I have to conclude that going into the courthouse this morning,

his defense team had already obtained authorization from him to have him enter a guilty plea without conditions.

So what this was, what the Alford plea offer was this morning was basically a Hail Mary.

They went in and told the judge he's prepared to enter this Alford plea.

And let me emphasize,

how rare an Alford plea is because it is essentially a guilty plea without admitting you're guilty.

It's done only in the rarest of circumstances.

And that's because obviously once you start letting people enter Alford pleas,

then everybody wants an Alford plea.

Who wants to admit that they're guilty?

It was never going to happen with the consent of the prosecutors,

which is what is required for an Alford plea.

So I believe it was a Hail Mary.

They were hoping that maybe the judge would go for it.

Put some pressure on the prosecution to allow the defendant to enter an Alford plea.

The court was not biting.

Neither was the prosecution.

And therefore after some time for meeting again,

apparently, and I think David is right to express some caution

that we don't know what's going to happen until it actually happens.

Apparently Hunter Biden is willing now to plead to the indictment with no deals with the prosecutors.

So he's essentially avoiding a trial.

But placing himself at the mercy of the court for sentencing.

Yeah, Carol, you say that the Alford plea is rare.

I think it's safe to say a lot of people were Googling what exactly it meant

and calling legal experts like yourself,

asking for help to try to understand exactly what the details of that would entail.

Look, I guess the question just zooming out, taking a step back,

as you say, it was really a Hail Mary, essentially.

Is this something that prosecutors want?

Or should have worked out before today, Carol?

And what does it say?

I mean, Abby Lowell is a highly experienced defense attorney, I should say.

What does it say that this wasn't worked out?

Well, we don't know what plea negotiations took place before today,

but apparently no successful plea negotiations actually took place.

And when I say fee negotiations, I mean that anticipates a plea agreement

where the government gives up something,

maybe agrees to cap the sentence or give up certain elements of the sentence

so that he will get a lower sentence.

And the defendant agrees to give up something

because he's not going to put the prosecution through its paces.

He's going to actually plead guilty.

But an Alford plea is basically saying, I don't think I'm guilty,

but I agree, looking at the facts objectively,

that I think the prosecution could prove to a jury beyond a reasonable doubt

that I was guilty.

So even though I don't think I'm guilty,

I'm going to accept that and go ahead and do an Alford plea,

it's almost never done.

I think maybe I've done it once in my career,

but the reason you do it is because there's some sort of other extenuating circumstance.

You know, let's say the defendant has a really good job

and would lose their job if they admitted to this crime in their own words.

But even then, it's extremely rare.

There's usually some sort of outside extenuating circumstance,

which just doesn't exist here.

So that was really never going to happen.

Abby Lowell knew that.

They went in, did the Hail Mary,

but they were prepared to have him plead guilty, I think,

if the Alford plea did not go through.

Carol, thank you for breaking all of that down for us.

David, let me go back to you, if I could, quickly.

Just put this in perspective for viewers.

How much time could he be facing behind bars

if he in fact does sue?

How much time would it take to strike this plea agreement?

Well, the maximum, especially when you consider

that he has already been convicted in federal court

in the case in Delaware,

where he was convicted of lying in a federal form application

to purchase a firearm,

he faces several years in prison, Kristen.

It's unlikely that he will get the maximum sentence,

but one of the big questions now is whether he will serve prison time at all.

I think one of the reasons behind entering an open plea,

one of the reasons behind his work today is, again,

to essentially ask the judge for mercy,

to put it in sort of layman's terms.

He's saying, look, I am agreeing to sort of put my fate in your hands,

and hopefully, I imagine his legal team wants that to result

in a more lenient sentence.

Also, by the way, Kristen, I have a little bit more detail

about what happened in the courtroom prior to his taking the stand

to enter the open plea.

There is still some kind of push and pull

between Abby Lowell, Biden's attorney, and Leo Wise,

the special prosecutor, over whether Hunter Biden

is going to explicitly admit factual guilt

in the alleged crimes laid out in the indictment.

Special prosecutor Leo Wise says,

and I'm going to quote for you here, he said,

quote,

Will Mr. Biden agree that this is the truth,

this in reference to what's in the indictment?

Because the truth matters.

He should have to say that the facts are true.

And in response, Abby Lowell's response is,

I know Mr. Wise would like Mr. Biden to say,

and in addition, I was a really bad person when I did this,

but that's not what the law requires.

Unclear, honestly, what the judge,

how the judge is going to push this,

whether he's going to push it to land

in either Lowell's side or Wise's side,

there is still some ambiguity there.

Regardless, Kristen, I think we can say

that this will straightforwardly be a guilty plea,

that once these proceedings are done,

Leo Wise is still reading this lengthy indictment

into the record.

Once that's over and once Hunter Biden admits

on that stand that he is guilty,

he will effectively be guilty in a federal court of law,

and we will be moving on to sentencing.

Well, another unprecedented moment,

given that he is the son of the sitting president,

David Noriega.

Carol Lamb, thank you both so much.

I'm going to ask you both to stand by

because, David, as you just showed us,

this is still a developing story.

Really appreciate your reporting and analysis,

and we're going to continue to follow this breaking news

throughout this hour and bring you any developments

as they happen.

We do want to turn now, though, to the presidential election

as the candidates take their debate preparations

to the campaign trail with just five days

until they meet for the first time on stage.

And after weeks of back and forth,

the rules are officially set,

and it isn't what the Harris campaign was hoping for.

So here's what it's going to look like, folks.

The same rules as the first and only debate

between Trump and President Biden will be in effect.

No audience, no notes, and muted microphones

when candidates aren't speaking.

The Trump campaign pushed for muted mics,

and the Harris campaign repeatedly lobbied against it.

As Harris's team looks for ways to use the debate

to get under Mr. Trump's skin ahead of the debate,

we saw a familiar strategy from the former president

as he trashed the host network during the election.

During a town hall on Fox News last night,

while also attacking Vice President Harris.

Look, this is a woman who is dangerous.

I don't think too smart, but let's see.

But she loses her train of thought a lot.

She goes, that's why she doesn't want to do interviews.

Now today, former President Trump is in New York

where he delivered remarks on the economy

while Vice President Harris

is in Pittsburgh where she is preparing for the debate.

Harris laid out her own economic vision

in New Hampshire yesterday,

continuing to try to tackle one of her campaign's

most vulnerable issues,

proposing plans to aid small businesses

while also trying to distance herself

from President Biden,

breaking with him on the issue of taxing investment profits.

While we ensure that the wealthy and big corporations

pay their fair share,

we will tax capital gains at a rate

that rewards investment.

Investment in America's innovators,

founders and small businesses.

So here's the detail.

If you earn a million dollars a year or more,

the tax rate on your long-term capital gains

will be 28% under my plan

because we know when the government encourages investment,

it leads to broad-based economic growth

and it creates jobs,

which makes our economy stronger.

Now that 28% is lower than the 39.6% rate

in President Biden's proposed budget,

but it is higher than the 20% current maximum rate

on long-term capital gains.

Today in New York,

Trump slamming Harris's proposal,

seizing on her comments about a billionaire minimum tax,

a Biden proposal that would tax gains

on certain investments before they're ever sold

as he laid out his economic vision.

My plan calls for expansion

of expanded R&D tax credits,

100% bonus depreciation,

expensing for new manufacturing investments,

and a reduction in the corporate tax rate

from 21% to 15%

solely for companies that make their product in America.

By contrast, comrade Kamala Harris

wants to sacrifice our wealth,

kill the economy,

and drive jobs overseas to punish businesses more.

These policies, especially the tax

on unrealized capital gains,

would decimate the U.S. economy.

Joining me now from Pittsburgh

is NBC News senior White House correspondent Kelly O'Donnell.

And NBC's Von Hilliard is in New York

tracking all things Trump campaign.

Kelly O, let me start with you.

It's official, the debate rules are set.

They're going to be the same rules

as we saw back in the debate in June.

Talk to me about what your sources are telling you

inside the Harris campaign.

How are they reacting to all of this?

Well, they are accepting that they are where they are.

They had hoped to have some changes in the rules

to allow for microphones to be hot or open,

working for both candidates throughout the debate

and not just when a candidate

has received a designated question.

That was the plan under Joe Biden.

That was his preference, his team's preference.

Now with a new candidate in Kamala Harris

with a different style,

with a prosecutorial background

that she would like to emphasize,

she and her team had wanted to have the mics open the whole time.

They have agreed to go forward

because the Trump people wouldn't move off of that

already agreed-to list of items,

which includes things like standing at lecterns,

no notes or props,

things that people in the audience will recognize

from having watched past debates.

This is a chance for them to have a face-off on Tuesday.

We are here in Pittsburgh because she's actually doing

her prep work with her senior team going over

how she wants to approach different issues,

different planned exchanges

in terms of anticipating what they think Donald Trump

might say with her

and to help her to be ready for that.

And choosing to do so in Pittsburgh

because this is a big market

in a very key battleground state of Pennsylvania.

And so she'll get plenty of local attention here

in local papers, local radio, local television

and the community being aware

that she is choosing to spend multiple days here preparing.

And then, of course, the debate itself in Philadelphia.

But they are agreeing to go forward

even though they had hoped for some changes.

Now, they do tell me that they expect that

if there is a back and forth between the candidates,

and we've certainly seen that style with Donald Trump

in past debates,

that they believe that there's an expectation

that the host network would open up the microphones

so the public could see it.

That is something that the Harris campaign maintains

is an expectation they have.

It was not explicitly written in the rules

put out by the host network.

So, they're getting going here.

They're doing sort of the rounding third,

heading home toward her first major contest

on the presidential debate stage.

Of course, four years ago she debated Mike Pence

and she certainly debated in Democratic primary debates

in the 2020 season.

Kristen?

Kelly, you know, it's so interesting

because one of the big questions looming over her campaign

is what are the differences

between her and President Biden?

I'm going to be talking to Ian Sams with her campaign

about this very question momentarily.

But let me put this to you.

In terms of this new economic policy

that's been rolled out,

where are the differences with President Biden, Kelly?

Well, in most ways, and in big sweeping views,

she and the President are very much together.

Where she is trying to make a point

is to take the issue that is really top of mind

across the country,

the electorate, the economy,

how people feel about their ability

to spend money comfortably or not,

and also what is at the root of that, jobs.

And so trying to incentivize business development

is something that also appeals to more center-right voters.

Those could be independent voters.

Those could be Republicans

who do not want to vote for Donald Trump.

The campaign is clearly making a very direct play for them.

And wanting to appeal a bit more centrist

when you consider some of her other positions.

Formally, she had supported ending fracking,

those kinds of things,

her support for some of the environmental things.

An economic plan that's a little bit

to the right of President Biden

is still centrist,

and that's something they think can be an advantage for her.

If she can articulate it and convince people,

it would be good for jobs and for the economy.

Kristen?

All right, and we know that there will still be

a lot of attention on that focus.

Kelly O'Donnell, thank you so much.

We really appreciate that.

Vaughn, let me turn to you now.

Let me ask you a similar question

about Trump's economic policy.

He pitched his plans today.

Of course, he criticized Vice President Harris.

We still don't have a whole lot of detail, though,

on his policies.

How much can you tell us about what he rolled out today?

Right, about eight blocks from 30 Rock,

he went and met with CEOs, investors,

head fund managers,

very prominent business folks in the New York community.

This was to the Economic Club of New York here.

And for the better part of an hour,

he talked about economic tangential issues,

talked about migration.

And when it comes to the actual specifics

of what his economic policy is,

a lot of it is based on rescinding

what the Biden-Harris administration

effectively implemented over the last four years.

Part of his new call today was to rescind funds

that had been allocated so far

under the Inflation Reduction Act.

Of course, this was a piece of legislation

passed by Congress.

It's not clear exactly how he would seek

to stop funding from going to certain programs.

He called today for the government incentives

for clean electric vehicles to be pulled back.

He called for the reversal

of clean carbon emission standards

that was implemented

under the Biden-Harris administration.

He has called for tariffs of 10 to 20%.

Today, he suggested that number may actually be higher

than he has publicly suggested previously.

That would be on all imported goods.

And of course, there's one other headline

from him today, and that was noting

that he would intend to put Elon Musk,

of course, his friend and the CEO of Tesla and X,

at the helm of a commission to oversee

what would be an effort to make

the federal government more efficient

and less financially bloated, in his words.

And of course, part of that is looking for details,

which we don't have at this point in time.

But I would want to note as part of this,

two weeks before the 2020 election,

he had signed an executive order

that would have effectively allowed the federal government

to transition thousands of federal career civil workers,

their jobs to become politically appointed jobs.

Of course, Joe Biden won the White House

and he rescinded that on day one, that executive order.

But there are a lot of questions still exactly

to some of the details that Donald Trump

was putting out there into the ether here today.

Vaughn Hilliard, thank you so much

for breaking it all down.

We really appreciate it.

Coming up next, breaking with Biden

I'll talk to a top official inside the Harris campaign

about how the vice president plans to differentiate herself

from the current president

and how she's preparing for that all important debate.

Don't go anywhere.

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Welcome back.

Joining me now is Ian Sams,

senior national spokesman for the Harris Walls campaign

and a former White House staffer.

Ian, thanks so much for being with me this afternoon.

I really appreciate it.

Thanks.

We are going to talk policy, of course,

but I have to start with Tuesday's all-important debate.

We have learned now that the rules are set.

The microphones will be turned off when the other person is speaking.

We know that that's not what you guys were pushing for,

so tell me what your reaction is to this.

Yeah, it's a little disappointing.

I think the vice president really felt strongly

about having the microphones unmuted

so that the American people could see them.

I think the vice president really felt strongly

about having the microphones unmuted

so that the American people could see a real debate

with real exchanges between the two candidates back and forth.

I think you think about the sort of viral moments of her

that people remember from her time in the Senate

where Trump appointees were before the Judiciary Committee,

the way she's incisive in her questioning,

asking them to draw out the truth and the facts

about what they are talking about.

You know, having that taken away from her

in this debate is a challenge.

The Trump campaign had understood

that these are two different candidates

than there were a few months ago,

and that it was very clear that the Trump campaign

wanted to keep a muzzle on their candidates

so that they could try to instill some discipline.

I think they were worried about what might happen

in those exchanges with the vice president,

and were trying to sort of keep him under control.

And I think, you know, look, to their point,

it's probably good for them.

It's probably helpful.

It's going to help Donald Trump stay under control.

And calmer, and more disciplined and restrained.

In June, for example, in the debate,

you know, he lied over and over again.

But maybe he seemed a little bit more normal

because he couldn't be interrupting

and interjecting all the time.

And so, you know, look, this is a guy who's a showman.

I think he knows how to perform in debates like this.

I think he knows how to get ready

for the big lights on TV.

And he's a very experienced debater at this point.

This is his seventh general election presidential debate,

which is probably the most debatable debate

of anybody in history.

And, you know, I think that we're looking to see

that they're probably ready to have him seem

a little bit more restrained and normal for the country.

Ian, I hear you trying to lower expectations.

Is there a reason you're doing that?

You know, it's interesting,

this, like, lowering expectations question.

I mean, Donald Trump is in Sean Hannity's town hall

in Pennsylvania attacking ABC,

claiming conspiracy theories

about we're going to get the questions ahead of time.

And, you know, people aren't really talking about that

as Donald Trump lowering expectations.

Well, to be fair, we are talking about that, too.

But since I'm interviewing you,

I just want to put the question to you.

Why are you lowering expectations?

I'm just telling the truth.

I think it's a little bit dispiriting

that the mute button is going to be on for the debate

and prevent the candidates from being able to go back and forth.

But, look, regardless of that,

the vice president is going to come to the debate

ready to talk about the choice in the election,

the choice between his economic vision and hers.

What's her economic vision?

Trickle-down and big corporations

and big billionaires getting tax cuts?

Help for small business and working people?

You know, she's going to paint the choice of the vision.

She's going to talk about how we can turn the page

on Donald Trump and move into the future

with a new way forward for the country.

Those are things she's going to be ready to talk about.

She's excited to be able to do that.

I think that it's just a matter of,

as we talk about the rules,

talking about some of the unfortunate decisions,

I think, that were made to continue pushing

for the muted microphones

by the Trump campaign.

Let me ask you now about some policy.

Obviously, the vice president has been rolling out

the details of her economic policy.

She's signaled that she supports part

of President Biden's proposed budget

that contains new tax policies.

So, question for you.

This is a yes or no question.

Does that include his billionaire's minimum tax

that would effectively tax unrealized capital gains

for Americans with wealth above $100 million?

Yeah, well, the vice president actually

talked about this yesterday.

I think that she sees the proposal she put forward

on capital gains and investment

and entrepreneurship and startups

in this country as appropriate

in balance with the suite of proposals

that she's also for,

which includes a billionaire minimum tax,

which includes quadrupling taxes

on stock buybacks, which includes

So, that's a yes?

A higher corporate tax rate.

We saw Trump today talk about this.

Yeah, she said that she's for

the billionaire minimum tax.

She said that again yesterday.

And I think, again, the reason I put

all these things together is I think she rejects

the false choice that we can either be

for using the tax code to foster investment

and growth in our startup and entrepreneur community

and taking on those at the very top

and the very wealthy.

She thinks that we can do both.

And she thinks that some of the proposals

that we've seen, including President Biden's

budget blueprint of 39.6%

for those long-term capital gains,

that's a little bit too high for how she sees

how we can incentivize investing in startups

and entrepreneurs.

But when it comes to things like

the billionaire minimum tax,

you know, the raising the corporate tax rate,

the stock buyback tripling or quadrupling,

excuse me, the rate on those,

that's a suite of really strong proposals

that targets those at the very top

to ensure that we create more revenue

to pay for really important priorities

for the middle class.

Ian, you know, you take me to my next question

because you're talking about entrepreneurs

and startups.

And Congressman Khanna actually pushed back

on the idea, saying exactly that,

that this is going to stifle startups,

that it could hurt entrepreneurs.

How do you counter that and, quite frankly,

that opposition coming from within your own party?

One of her top surrogates saying that.

Well, I was watching Congressman Khanna

actually yesterday talk about her proposal

that she announced in New Hampshire

about the lower capital gains rate

than what President Biden has proposed.

And he was saying that he thinks this makes sense,

that this is a good suite of proposals

and a smart plan to help small businesses

and increase entrepreneurship and startups in this country.

And so, you know, I think that every Democrat

and every Republican aren't going to agree on everything.

But I think that at the end of the day,

Congressman Khanna and many other Democrats

have spoken out to say,

Vice President Harris is putting forward a real plan

that helps small businesses and working people,

which is such a contrast to what we're seeing

from President Trump.

And you guys talked about this with Vaughn,

his announcements at the New York Economic Club,

where he's pushing even more tax cuts for corporations,

even more tax cuts for those at the top.

So it's just a really stark difference between the two.

Let me ask you, broadly speaking,

because she has put out a number of proposals,

including a ban on price gouging,

as you just laid out,

a smaller increase in the capital gains tax.

But how should people think about a Harris administration

as compared to a Biden administration?

Where will the big difference be?

Will there be any big differences, Ian?

Well, yeah, you're starting to see some of these areas

where they disagree a little bit

on how to get the policies done.

Around the edges, around the edges.

I think at the end of the day,

they're very different candidates.

I think the country and voters view them as different people.

I think that people can see that President Biden

and Vice President Harris aren't the same person.

And I think that when Vice President Harris

talks about her values and priorities,

when you think about something

like the price gouging proposal,

this is someone who spent 15 years

or 20 years of their career as a prosecutor

taking on special interests,

big, powerful interests,

on behalf of regular people

who've been wronged by them.

And so you can think about her policy proposals

in terms of understanding that there are

really big, powerful interests out there

who are screwing over regular people.

And we need to actually use our policy programs

to take them on in order to give relief to some people.

That's something that I think

we haven't talked a ton about over the last four years.

But again, I think there's places

that she can continue to roll out ideas

and talk about for the American people

that may be a little bit of a distinction

from President Biden.

And I think the other thing is putting forward ideas

that grow on and expand upon progress

that we've made under President Biden.

Ian, let me ask...

I don't think it has to be...

I think there's a little bit of a shorthanding

that maybe there's some massive break or something.

I think there are places where they disagree.

They're different candidates.

But at the end of the day,

there have been amazing successes

under this administration.

And what she's putting forward

are ideas of how to build on that

and to talk to the American people

about her own values and her own vision

for doing this that is unique to her as a candidate.

Ian, I want to ask you about price gouging

because a lot of questions

about how practically that would play out.

For example, would the government set

a maximum price on food and groceries?

No, I think that the Republicans now suddenly...

Which is actually interesting.

Let's talk about this for a second.

Donald Trump and Republicans have been attacking her

for somehow this is price controls,

which it isn't.

Economists have come out

and said it absolutely isn't.

But economists have also expressed concerns

with the plan.

But what's interesting

about this price gouging proposal

is 40 states already have price gouging proposals

on the books.

There's just not a federal law.

And in fact, there's been bipartisan legislation,

Republicans and Democrats in Congress,

who have put forward suggestions

that we take on corporate price gouging

at the federal level.

And so it's interesting that suddenly

ideas that Republicans used to support

are being attacked by Republicans

once the Democratic nominee

for president, Kamala Harris, proposes them.

And so I think that there's some game playing

happening here by those on the right

when what the vice president's talking about

is easing the burden on people

when corporations are charging too much

than they should be on products

in moments of vulnerability.

I think we've seen this.

You actually have seen a lot of conversation

in the press and in the economic news

over the last year or two

about shrinkflation, for example,

selling a smaller product

for the same price as a larger product.

Well, those are the kind of corporate behavior

that she's talking about wanting to take on

in order to bring down prices

for the American people.

Ian, before I let you go,

I do have to ask you about

the developing news right now.

Hunter Biden in court

on the tax-related charges that he is facing.

We anticipate he's going to enter a plea deal.

That has not happened yet, though.

That is our reporting.

That's our anticipation.

As president would vote,

now Vice President Harris,

pardon him.

Or is that off the table?

Well, you've heard President Biden

make the commitment that that wouldn't happen.

I wouldn't imagine that changing

with Vice President Harris.

Is she committed to that?

Obviously, you know,

the case is still ongoing,

and we want to be really careful

and respectful of the court process.

I don't think that this should be politicized

from the Harris campaign.

Understood.

I mean, President Biden has taken it off the table.

Has the vice president taken it off the table?

Well, I just answered.

I said I think that she's not planning

to pardon anyone.

But again, there's no,

I think it's important to understand

there's no sentence or anything like that

happening right now.

And so, you know,

I would leave this question to the White House

and to President Biden

and obviously to Hunter Biden

and his personal team.

All right.

Ian Sams, thank you so much for joining us.

We really appreciate it.

Appreciate your time, Ian.

And speaking of the debate,

you can watch Vice President Harris

and former President Trump face off

in their first debate hosted by ABC News

and streaming live right here on NBC News Now.

Full coverage starts at 8 p.m. Eastern this Tuesday.

Coming up, new details on the student

now charged with opening fire

inside his Georgia high school

and how long he's been on authorities' radar.

Stay with us.

You're watching Get the Press Now.

Get the Press Now.

Get the Press Now is a production

of the Center for Public Education

and the Office of the University of Georgia.

The center for library and civil education.

Get the Press Now is brought to you

by the Office of the University of Georgia.

See you next time on Get the Press Now.

I'm Ian Sams.

Have a great day.

Bye.

Thank you so much, Ian.

Thank you.

I'll see you in the next one.

Have a great day.

Thank you.

Bye.

Have a great day.

Have a nice day.

Thanks.

Take care.

Have a good day.

Bye.

Bye-bye.

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Welcome back.

Moments ago, President Biden spoke publicly

for the first time about yesterday's deadly shooting

at a Georgia high school.

Here's what he said at the start of his remarks

in Wisconsin for an event focused on infrastructure.

As a nation, we cannot continue to accept

the carnage of gun violence.

We need more thought, more than thoughts and prayers.

Some of my Republican friends in Congress

have just finally had to say enough is enough.

We have to do something.

Together, let's ban assault weapons.

There are too many people

who are able to access guns that shouldn't be able to.

So let's require safe storage of firearms.

I know I have mine locked up,

but how could you have an assault rifle,

a weapon in a house not locked up

and knowing your kid knows where it is?

Got to hold parents accountable

if they let their child have access to these guns.

Let's enact universal background checks

and then immunity for gun manufacturers.

Now, authorities,

just released this booking photo

of the 14-year-old suspect in yesterday's shooting,

just hours after he was charged

with four counts of felony murder.

Authorities say the suspect opened fire

with an AR-style weapon inside Apalachee High School,

killing two students and two teachers

and injuring nine other people.

Senior law enforcement officials

briefed on the investigation,

say the suspect had shown interest

in prior mass shootings,

including the 2018 shooting

at a high school in Parkland, Florida.

Local authorities,

also say they interviewed the suspect

and his father in May of last year

after the FBI received a tip

about a potential threat

to shoot up a school.

The sheriff in Barrow County, Georgia,

told NBC News about that investigation.

Look.

Again, I believe and I feel confident

that the FBI, the system worked.

They notified local authorities.

Local authorities went to the house,

interviewed him, interviewed his father.

They did a report.

They did what they were supposed to do

and found that there was no evidence.

There was no probable cause.

I mean, regardless of the situation,

all of us have civil rights.

He didn't commit a crime.

He made a comment.

It was unfounded at the time.

And so can anything be preventable?

I mean, I don't know.

It's hard to say.

NBC News correspondent Jesse Kirsch

joins me now from Winder, Georgia.

Jesse, thank you for joining me.

I know that investigators are still

trying to piece together what happened.

Talk about the latest in the investigation

and what we know about the situation.

Yeah, so Kristen, as you were just hearing

from the sheriff moments ago,

we now know that this suspect

was looked into over a year ago.

And according to an incident report

that we've been able to review,

the suspect apparently told,

the suspect from this incident

apparently told authorities more than a year ago

when he was 13 years old

that he had never threatened

to cause violence at a school,

would never threaten to cause violence at a school,

and also suggested that his discord account,

which is frequently used for gamers

in communicating online,

that he suggested that his account

may have been hacked as well.

So he pushed back on those claims.

As the sheriff said,

there was nothing that led to an arrest at the time.

And furthermore, as our colleague Tom Winters pointed out,

there is no red flag law here in Georgia.

So authorities really had only so much

they would have been able to do

in terms of trying to get him away

from firearms in his home.

According to this incident report,

the suspect's father said

that there were guns in his home,

but that the boy did not have unfettered access to it.

Fast forward to yesterday,

and Colt Gray,

who according to authorities

was new to the school district

just on his second day in this school,

is accused of having shot and killed

two classmates,

killed two teachers in the school as well,

and injuring nine more people.

We are told that those nine individuals

who were injured by gunfire

are expected to survive from their wounds.

The memorials continue to grow here.

We have seen people

bringing flowers to this school throughout the day.

Classes have been called off

for the rest of the week here.

And this suspect who is accused

of carrying out this rampage

is now facing four counts of felony murder.

And more charges, we're told,

are expected after this rampage,

which we're told involved an AR-style weapon.

And of course, the question remains out there, Kristen,

amongst so many others,

how does that kind of weapon get into a school

as the school year is getting underway, Kristen?

It's just so many questions.

It's just so many devastating details.

Jesse Kirsch, thank you for being there for us.

Thank you for your reporting.

I know it is just tough,

that community still in shock and in mourning.

We really appreciate it.

Coming up after the break,

former Republican congresswoman

and outspoken Trump critic

reveals she's voting for Harris this November.

We'll delve into that and tell you who it is.

You're watching Meet the Press Now.

As a conservative, as someone who believes in

and cares about the Constitution,

I have thought deeply about this.

And because of the danger that Donald Trump poses,

not only am I not voting for Donald Trump,

but I will be voting for Kamala Harris.

Welcome back.

That was former Wyoming Republican congresswoman

Liz Cheney announcing her support for Kamala Harris

last night at Duke University.

The former vice chair of the January 6th committee

and former chair of the House...

House Republican Conference.

Cheney isn't the first big-name Republican

to come out against Trump,

but she is one of the first to say

she will vote for Harris.

Joining me now on set is Chris Silliza,

founder of the So What newsletter,

Democratic strategist Juanita Tolliver.

She's also an NBC News political analyst

and Republican strategist Lance Trover.

Thanks to all of you for being here.

Chris, kick us off.

The significance of this announcement,

not altogether a surprise,

but as I said, to hear her say

she's going to vote for Harris,

I mean, okay, let me first answer your question,

which is I don't think there's a huge amount of significance.

I don't think anybody thought...

I just don't think...

I don't think there was a world out there

where we were like,

Liz Cheney, is she potentially for Trump?

But you're right, that she's for Harris is something.

But I will say it reminded me when I heard it last night,

and again, not super surprising,

but when I heard it, I thought,

holy cow, like, number one, I thought, I'm old.

And number two, I thought, 15 years ago,

if you said Liz Cheney,

it doesn't matter who it is,

but Liz Cheney is going to endorse,

the Democratic now made for president,

I would have fallen over because Liz Cheney,

I know she's sort of a hero among Democrats at this point,

but Liz Cheney, I would remind people,

go look at her voting record

on anything not tied to Donald Trump.

She is, I mean, she is what we used to call a conservative.

So it just reminded me how much things have changed,

even in the last decade.

That was my big takeaway, I guess.

It's a great point, Lance.

I mean, and that was so on display at the convention

that this is Donald Trump's party now.

The Bushes,

and the Cheneys,

the Romneys,

they were nowhere to be found.

Yeah.

Well, you took all of my lines.

I'm not really sure what to...

I told Kristen I had to go first.

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

I only got one good bit.

It is Donald Trump's party.

I mean, I think there's no question about that.

I obviously agree with Chris.

This is not a surprise to anybody.

We were joking about it off camera.

But, and if you look at the polls,

I mean, it's Donald Trump's party,

but he's also at a real shot of winning this race, right?

If you look at the polls,

CNN polls that came out this week show him,

I mean, 47-47 in Pennsylvania.

He's doing really well out there right now.

And so these types of things I don't think are going to matter,

certainly not to Republicans.

I'm not sure they're really going to matter

to swing voters at the end of the day.

Do you agree?

Juanita, what do you think?

I mean, I'm always going to say,

sure, come on in, the water's fine.

Everybody can vote for the vice president

to be the next president of this country.

So I'm not going to slam it, but I do agree.

Liz Cheney isn't at the top of my list.

I don't think a lot of Democrats view her as someone who is...

doing anything different from what she has done

for the past few years.

Do you anticipate she'll be campaigning

for vice president, Harris?

What can we expect to see?

What are you hearing?

Maybe.

Do I see a potential event with her and Adam Kinzinger?

Sure, to the right audience in the right state.

Definitely not on stage with the vice president, though.

Here's how J.D. Vance is responding.

Let me play this and get everyone's reaction

on the other side.

This is a person whose entire career

has been about sending other people's children off

to fight and die for her military conflicts

and her ridiculous ideas

that somehow we were going to turn Afghanistan,

a country that doesn't even have running water

in a lot of places,

into a thriving liberal democracy.

And for that, Liz Cheney was willing

to kill thousands of your children.

Lance, what do you make of that?

I mean, it's a new day and a new age here

in this party.

I don't think there's really what else to say.

I mean, in that response,

actually, if you think about it,

I mean, the Republican Party has become

an anti-war party and an anti-interventionist

party.

And so I'm actually not surprised to hear

some of what he's saying out there

in terms of drawing the contrast with her.

It is.

I mean, I just, I don't want to be the old guy

on the panel, but I just, I do.

My kids say I look younger than I am.

So I'm going to keep that in mind.

You do.

And it's not just the blue glasses.

Thank you.

Not just.

The thing that I just keep coming back to

is like, it is stunning.

That's the vice presidential nominee

for the Republican Party

who just said that basically,

Dick Cheney's vision of the Republican Party,

which was not a hundred years ago,

I'll remind people.

Dick Cheney was the vice president

of the United States until 2008.

Like, it is stunning.

The change in the reversal.

And I just think we should bookmark it.

I don't think it's going to,

I don't think it makes a huge difference

because we kind of know the deal.

But it is in the evolutions of the two parties.

I did not see this one coming.

Yeah, no, it absolutely is a changing of the guard.

There is no doubt about that.

And this does come.

And we're talking about the polls, Lance.

And, you know, David Plouffe said something, Juanita,

that was so interesting.

He was quoted as saying,

this is a moment where he believes

Vice President Harris, if you look at the polls,

they're running neck and neck.

They've tried to cast themselves as the underdogs.

But he says, look, it's not just that there's momentum

against voting for Trump,

that there's momentum for voting for Harris.

He said, that's where the magic comes in.

Do you think Democrats,

are doing enough to tap into that magic right now?

Absolutely.

They raised $300 million in August alone.

We've seen millions of new voters registering,

young people, women especially.

And those same people are peeling off from Donald Trump.

I think the biggest change in polling I've seen

since the convention was white women

shifting away from Trump by about 11 points.

And so when I think about that

in the context of Democrats leveraging this opportunity,

yes, they are doing that work

and translating it not just into dollars,

but activations on the ground,

because that is,

what's going to turn out.

Turnout is going to decide this race,

especially with these statistical ties in the polls.

And they're trying, of course,

they're rolling out a new ad campaign.

I want to play a little bit

and get everyone's reaction on the other side.

Project 2025 would strip away

our voting rights protections

and it eliminates the Department of Education.

It would also require states to monitor women's pregnancies.

It bans abortion

and would rip away health coverage for millions.

Kamala Harris will stand up to Trump

and his MAGA loyalist's dangerous plans

to control our lives.

Because Trump is out for himself.

While Kamala Harris is for the people.

Chris, you know, it's interesting.

If you look at the polls,

a lot of voters actually know what Project 2025 is.

I'm sort of surprised, to be honest.

It's a very conservative, we should say, blueprint.

Donald Trump has said,

look, I have nothing to do with that.

But of course, a lot of the folks who wrote it

are former advisors to Trump.

How much does an ad like that resonate?

What do you make of that strategy?

Let me say about Project 2025 first.

It is the single dumbest thing.

If you want Donald Trump to get elected,

okay, if your goal is to get Donald Trump elected,

the stupidest thing you could possibly do is be like,

why don't we put down in minute detail

what we think he should do with like the Interior Department?

No one is thinking about the Interior Department right now,

right?

But like when you do that, you allow ads like that.

I mean, that's why Kamala Harris, look,

she's not putting a lot of meat on the policy bone,

but I totally get why.

Because as soon as you say, I'm for this,

it means you're against this

and your opponent can attack you.

That document is a lie.

That document is an absolute goldmine

if you are Kamala Harris's campaign.

Does it, it's great for the base.

The Democratic base will be absolutely fired up

by an ad like that.

We always talk about this,

like, will it matter to swing voters?

Man, I wish I knew, honestly,

because it's so hard to know.

That's why I think what's coming Tuesday night

is gonna be so critical in this election

because there's what, 15% were undecided

in the polls out this week.

I mean, those folks are gonna be watching.

And that's why I think, because everybody,

everybody knows Donald Trump.

They know what he stands for.

That is not, the question is, who is Kamala Harris?

What does she stand for?

And that's why I think a lot of people

are gonna be tuning in next week.

And how does she stand up to Donald Trump face-to-face?

Remember, they have never been in close proximity.

This will likely be their very first time

meeting each other in person.

And so her posture on the stage that night,

going toe-to-toe with him, even with muted mics,

I'm sure there's gonna be something shouted

across the stage at her

that she will be able to respond to.

It is going to be a fascinating night for so many reasons.

And we saw the importance of the debate back in June.

Guys, thank you very much.

Fantastic conversation, really appreciate it.

We wanna turn now to the battle for the control

of the Senate, which could go through the state of Montana.

A new AARP poll shows former President Trump

with a 15-point lead over Vice President Harris

among likely voters.

But the Senate race is much tighter.

Republican Tim Schee holds a six-point lead

over incumbent Democrat Jon Tester

within the poll's margin of error.

CNBC's Emily Wilkins

is on the ground in Missoula and filed this report.

Kristen, housing prices are an issue nationwide,

but it is a particularly big problem here in Montana.

On the demand side, you've seen a lot of folks

move into the state, of course,

for some of these gorgeous views that you see here,

but it's driven up housing prices.

And then on the supply side,

the state actually has a labor shortage,

and that has led to homes being more expensive as well.

The National Association of Realtors said that Montana

is a good affordable state for homeowners

because of these two reasons.

And here in Missoula, the average housing price of $568,000

it might not sound that much if you live in New York

or Washington, D.C.,

but if you were born and raised in Montana

or you've been here for a while,

wages have not kept pace

with the skyrocketing housing prices.

I spoke with DJ Smith,

he's the president of the Montana Association of Realtors.

Listen to how he described the issue.

DJ SMITH, Founder, Montana Association of Realtors.

Listen to how he describe the issue.

DJ SMITH, Founder, Montana Association of Realtors.

in Colorado, California, they would sell their homes for over a million dollars and have a lot

of equity to purchase here in Montana. And so we've seen that, and that's led to 30% of our

homes, a record number of 30% of our homes last year being bought with cash. Housing affordability

has become a huge issue in Montana's Senate race that could ultimately determine which party

controls the chamber next year. Democratic Senator John Tester, he's a third generation

Montanan, and he faces one of the most difficult reelections of any incumbent. If he's on the

campaign trail, he's been talking a lot about out-of-staters moving into Montana, what it means

to be a real Montanan, but he's also put forward a number of policy proposals, and this includes

federal grants to help with middle and low-income housing, also to repair homes here in Montana.

Plus, he has talked about a tax credit that would go to developers if they sell property

to groups of Montana residents who are trying to keep

cars.

Now, Tester's Republican opponent, Tim Sheehy, he's talked a lot about inflation, blaming

that on Biden and Tester's policies that they have passed in Washington, D.C. But in a recent

debate, he also began talking a lot about the need for more tradespeople. So these are

builders, your plumbers, your electricians, your HVAC specialists, folks that are in short

supply down here in Montana, and that if they had more of them, you could have more competitive

and hopefully lower pricing. I spoke with builder Andrew Wiegand.

He told me that part of the reason that housing prices are so high is that it's difficult for

him to find subcontractors here in a state with the labor shortage.

If you have a pool of three or four subcontractors to use and not 30 or 40, you're going to have

not as competitive of a market as you do in other areas of the nation.

The race here in Montana is currently considered a toss-up. A poll from the AARP out today

does show Sheehy with an 8.5.

But that is within the poll's margin of error. It will certainly be a very close race from

now until November. Kristen?

And our thanks to Emily Wilkins for that great report. We'll watch that race very closely.

I'm back tomorrow with more Meet the Press Now. And as we mentioned earlier, tune in

Tuesday night at 8 p.m. Eastern for special coverage of the Harris-Trump debate hosted

by ABC News. You can stream it live right here on NBC News Now. The news continues with

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