Women Who Code | A Catalyst for Innovation: Philanthropy in Science and Tech

Hi, and welcome to the Women Who Code podcast.

My name is Natalia Days, and I am the Senior Director

of Communications and Marketing at Women Who Code.

I am very excited to be here today

with Dr. Brooke Grinlinger.

Dr. Brooke is a microbiologist and chief scientific officer

at the New York Academy of Sciences,

dedicated to amplifying the positive impact of science

on people and our planet.

She leads the development, growth, and excellence

of scientific aspects of the Academy's portfolio

of programs, products, and initiatives,

spanning scientific and educational convenings

and courses, fellowship and prize programs,

and public-private partnerships across the life

and physical sciences.

She also oversees the Blavatnik Awards

for Young Scientists, the largest unrestricted award

ever created to support early career scientists.

Welcome, Dr. Brooke, to the Women Who Code podcast.

Thank you so much.

I'm so excited to talk to you today.

I'm excited to jump into,

all of your career and everything that you can share

with us about the work that you're doing.

Can you just start off by giving us kind of your background,

your kind of journey to where you are now,

and tell us a little bit about your current role?

Sure.

Well, you mentioned I'm a microbiologist,

and the accent you hear is I'm Australian.

And I will say that my career coming into science

was a little,

a little bit unexpected.

I didn't have a huge love of science in high school,

largely because there were few girls in my,

very few girls in my science classes.

I had all-male teachers in my science courses,

and I really struggled to see a career for myself

with so few women role models in the sciences.

But I love the exactness of science,

that you could design an experiment

to ask a particular question and do the experiment

and get a result.

And I elected to go to university to do a Bachelor in Science

and then pursue a postgraduate degree in microbiology.

But getting towards the end of my PhD,

I actually enjoyed writing my thesis

more than I enjoyed putting on a lab coat

and go sitting down at the bench every day

to try and get the same experiment to work

that had failed for the last weeks or months.

And I started to think about, you know,

maybe the traditional career path for me as a scientist

might not be working in a lab or at an academic institution

or a hospital or in industry.

But because I loved so much the writing of my thesis,

the telling the story of how my small piece

of scientific discoveries would fit into the larger picture

of science and how important that was,

I thought a career in science communications

might be for me.

So I sort of developed,

emerged and took somewhat of a non-traditional career path

at that time early in my career

and moved into science publications,

first working as the science editor

for a medical journal in New York

called the Journal of Clinical Investigation.

So I went from having deep expertise

in a narrow area of microbiology,

which happened to be tuberculosis,

to suddenly having to understand

different areas of human physiology and disease,

neuroscience, cardiovascular disease,

endocrinology, oncology,

traveling to conferences, meeting scientists,

understanding what the forefronts of discovery were

in all of these different areas of science and medicine.

And I loved that because I was continually learning,

but also using the expertise that I'd learned in the lab

to assess the work of other scientists,

help them improve it for publication.

And that's a very rigorous process

for the review and publication

of scientific research in journals.

And I really loved it.

And I was actually a customer

of the New York Academy of Sciences

before I joined their team.

As the editor of a science journal,

you are always on the lookout

for the most exciting, innovative, unpublished research

that's coming out of academic labs.

So I would visit the New York Academy of Sciences often

because they had an incredible portfolio

of scientific conferences,

where I could go to a diabetes conference on Monday

and a cancer conference on Wednesday,

and really keep my finger on the pulse

of new work coming out of academia in these fields.

So I got to know the organization really well

and realized that, again,

my expertise and skills as a journal editor

were very transferable to the work of this organization.

So I made the jump then from science communications

into the nonprofit sector.

And I've been with the New York Academy of Sciences for a long time, and I've been with the New York Academy of Sciences for a long time, and I've been with the New York Academy of Sciences for a long time, and I've been with the New York Academy of Sciences for a long time,

and I've been with the New York Academy of Sciences for a long time, and I've been with the New York Academy of Sciences for about 14 years now,

which is a long time,

but been really fortunate to sort of advance in my career

and being able to shape and mold my role

in the organization over time

so that I've continued to grow in my skills and knowledge

and also being able to dabble and gain experience

in a lot of different areas of things

that our organization does,

and it's been a lot of fun.

And then I guess I should tell you about my current role now.

Well, the mission of the New York Academy of Sciences is to drive innovative solutions to society's challenges by advancing scientific research, education and policy.

So my primary responsibility as the chief scientific officer is to ensure the scientific excellence of our initiatives and programs.

Many of you mentioned that you mentioned already, thank you, across those three pillars of research, education and policy.

And to scale the reach and the impact of those programs, I work to build partnerships with organizations in academia, industry, government and other nonprofit organizations.

And then as an ambassador for our organization on both domestic and international stages,

I contribute often to critical conversations happening in the scientific community on issues that are critically important to science, tech, engineering, math, and medicine.

And I guess you might ask, okay, what does that really mean in tangible terms?

Well, on any given day, that might look like advocating for policy changes in STEM by speaking to global leaders at the United Nations here in New York.

I might be meeting with university or company leaders to talk about a possible partnership that supports scientific research, education or policy.

I might be doing something really fun like spending time with our communications team to create social media content to celebrate women scientists during Women's History Month.

Or I could be coaching young scientists on their communication skills or even sitting in a jury meeting.

I would be doing something really fun like spending time with our communications team to create social media content to celebrate women scientists during Women's History Month.

Or I could be doing something really fun like spending time with our communications team to create social media content to celebrate women scientists during Women's History Month.

And I also might be helping to help select winners of some of the science prizes that we award that help drive the discoveries that are shaping how our world's going to look over the years to come.

It's different every day, and it's really fun.

I love that.

I want to learn more about kind of the work you do at the intersection of philanthropy, science and technology.

But before we get into that, I want to ask, because you talked a little bit about pivoting.

your kind of subject area or your career. And a lot of our audience are career transitioners

or career changers, or they're starting a new career in tech before they, after they've been

in academia or a different area. And I'd just love to hear you speak to a little bit about how

you navigate pivoting in your career or pivoting in school or as a, as a woman leader, or just as

a woman who may be underrepresented in the field that they're in. I think first I'd say to your

listeners, don't be afraid to diverge from traditional career paths in tech. At the beginning

of my career as a scientist, I trained as a microbiologist. I really worried

that people would not consider me a quote unquote real scientist, unless I was in a job

where I wore a white coat. I worked in a lab and spent a lot of time, time peering down a microscope,

but I realized that there was this entire ecosystem of alternative job opportunities

where my technical expertise could still be leveraged and could still make an impact.

Even if I wasn't working in a lab environment.

Every day. And also in those non-traditional roles, I could have the opportunity to build skills and

experience in areas that a lab scientist traditionally doesn't. For example, science

communications, marketing, media relations, fundraising, partnership development, even

contract negotiation, consulting, and today nonprofit business administration.

And that's a really unique skillset. It's sort of science meets business, and that can really enhance your appeal to potential employers.

And I think it's inevitable as you ascend the career ladder that those types of non-technical skills are going to be just as critical,

even more critical than your technical expertise will be.

So.

I want to encourage people to let go of the fear of, you know, will I still be a real scientist if they don't choose to follow one of those more traditional career paths?

And there are so many opportunities to pursue.

You know, consulting, education, entrepreneurship, project management, even sales, marketing, technical writing.

It's really key for people to kind of open their minds.

And when people open their minds to all of these types of non-traditional roles, they still require really deep technical expertise that you've gained during your university training.

You know, any postgraduate training.

You've got a depth of technical expertise in your toolkit.

But not everyone has the talent or the interest in translating those technical, that technical depth of knowledge and applying it in different sectors and different types of jobs.

But not everyone has the talent or the interest in translating those technical, that technical depth of knowledge and applying it in different sectors and different industries or for different audiences.

So for people who are maybe in that point of their career where they think, gosh, the traditional path that is laid out in front of me, I don't, I'm not feeling a great passion for it.

What else could I do?

Think about the skills that you have developed and your expertise already and where you could apply those in some non-traditional settings.

So I encourage people to talk to others in those non-traditional types of roles that might interest you and get a real sense of what their role looks like day to day.

What are they really doing and how are they applying their technical skills, the skills that you have right now?

How are they taking those skills and deploying them every day in their slightly different role and see if that sounds like fun and rewarding work for you.

I know as a young scientist, I really lacked insider knowledge about what were the other alternative career paths that I could consider.

So I think the more you can ask people about their roles, if they are in completely different sectors or roles or different types of environments, but have similar technical expertise and training as you do, the more you can ask, tell me about your job.

What do you really do every day?

Okay.

And then how did they make the jump from whether it was from university straight into an alternative career or what sort of think about stepping stones along the way?

Did they take that helped them maybe build experience or gain exposure to other industries or sectors or even just make professional contacts that can help open doors and introduce you to others and thinking about, well, how could I model my next career step?

So I think the more you can ask people about their roles, if they are in completely different sectors or roles or different types of environments, but have similar technical expertise and training as you do, the more you can ask people about their roles, if they are in completely different sectors or areas and thinking about, well, how could I model my next career step?

To follow a little bit in their path to help you get to that next step in your career that maybe is a little bit of a sort of 90 degree angle from the more traditional career path.

I love that.

I love the idea of leveraging those transferable skills to create a new path for yourself.

Can you elaborate on the intersection of philanthropy, science and technology and how it relates to the work you do now?

Sure.

Well, from my perspective.

I think philanthropy can positively impact science and tech in three very important ways.

The first is as a catalyst for innovation.

The second by improving access and equity.

And then third through global impact.

So if we look at where science and tech innovations emerge, it's often from academic institutions.

Where scientists are really.

Really pushing the boundaries of fundamental knowledge.

And then R and D efforts that are complimentary in the industry sector.

They often solve very practical problems and problems that really meet market demands.

But for context, if we look at the bigger picture, we have to think about how that innovation is funded in academia.

Higher ed education institutions in the United States.

Spent nearly 90.

Billion dollars on R and D in fiscal year 2021, and more than half of that spending was financed by the US federal government.

And I've seen firsthand the incredibly fierce and often restrictive fundraising gauntlet that scientists have to run and navigate in order to get grant funding to sustain their labs.

They have to navigate, navigate a very complex.

Grant application process, very intense peer review process.

And there's a very high volume of proposals from the entire academic ecosystem, and they're all vying for very limited funds.

And then they also have to navigate the winds of change that are.

Very much beyond their control because government funding often fluctuates due to shifts in political leadership or.

Budget constraints or other economic factors.

So the bottom line is today's scientists have to be continually adapting their research vision and path.

They have to chase alternative funding sources and navigate this very bureaucratic hurdle to sustain their labs and further their scientific research.

And that's not how we want our brilliant scientific minds.

To be spending the bulk of their time.

And here's where philanthropy can be an incredible catalyst for innovation because philanthropy can short circuit that incredibly fierce fundraising gauntlet that scientists are having to navigate to secure federal funds to support their research.

And one of the beauties of philanthropic funding is that it's often awarded in an unrestricted manner.

And that is pivotal because it gives researchers amazing creative freedom to pursue high risk, but potentially high reward ideas.

The really out of the box, creative off the wall, scientific ideas that may have been sidelined by more traditional funding agencies that can often be somewhat risk averse.

So philanthropic funding.

It's essentially a license.

It's to take really big swings at important problems.

Could I share an example with you of how the New York Academy of Sciences has leveraged philanthropic support for science and tech?

Yes, please.

So we've deployed this model through the Blavatnik Awards for Young Scientists program.

And that is a partnership between the Blavatnik Family Foundation and the New York Academy of Sciences.

And it offers the largest.

Unrestricted prizes ever created for early career scientists.

So we look for exceptionally talented young scientists, not necessarily specific scientific ideas, but really talented individuals who, with some recognition and unrestricted financial support, we believe that they could go on to make highly impactful discoveries.

And by the close of this year, we will have awarded close to $17 million in unrestricted funding through this program, and more than 470 young scientists have been honored.

And I can almost guarantee that everyone listening has benefited from innovations that these young scientists have brought forward to society.

You may not know it.

Perhaps.

It was.

Through the first-ever CRISPR-based diagnostic test for COVID that was developed very early in the COVID-19 pandemic.

Or the 5G connectivity that we all enjoy on our smartphones to cybersecurity tools that are working in the background to protect the privacy of our everyday transactions and interactions online.

And what's been really interesting is to see how this philanthropic.

Support can also address issues of access and equity in science and tech.

So specifically, some of the recipients of this unrestricted funding have elected to use the funds to help advance their research and careers through some fairly nontraditional ways.

So, for example, this type of funding can be used to offset expenses that are very rarely, if ever, covered.

By traditional funding sources that could encompass things like travel to scientific conferences, accessing professional development training and courses to covering publication fees to have their new scientific papers published in open access formats and journals, even things like legal fees if they're looking to patent or commercialize their scientific discoveries that they've made in the lab.

And then what I've really loved to see is beyond the lab, this type of flexible funding can alleviate costs that, while not directly tied to conducting scientific research in a lab environment, they're really crucial for career advancement.

So two examples, caregiver assistance.

So scientists who are parents.

They can then use some of this.

Funding so that they have adequate support so they can better juggle the demands of being a scientist with the responsibilities of parenthood.

And a second example is as supplemental income support, for example, for a trailing spouse who might face reduced salary earnings if they have to relocate to a new city for their partner's new job opportunity.

And these are the types of issues that often.

Disproportionately impact women and that can lead to slower career advancement compared to their male peers, also increased stress, burnouts, and ultimately we're seeing higher attrition rates of women from STEM fields.

So I guess my final takeaway there is we've seen that this type of philanthropic backing can really uniquely recognize and support.

The very intricate.

Balance of a scientist's professional.

And personal life.

Because we really can't separate the science.

From the scientist.

I love the way that you phrase that.

You talked a little bit about creating access for groups that otherwise wouldn't have it in many ways.

How do you think we can address and overcome the existing gender gap in fundraising for women in the tech industry to ensure or continue to ensure that women are able to access the services that they need?

And how do you think we can address and overcome the existing gender gap in fundraising for women in the tech industry to ensure or continue to ensure that women are able to access the services that they need?

Equal opportunities for funding and support.

This is really important.

There's still a long ways to go until we can see, you know, women founders in tech receiving the same type of investment and financial support as their male peers.

So I'll throw out five ideas.

First, I'd love to see more funding initiatives launched that are exclusively available to women led startups in the tech industry.

And that could be seed funding, grants, or even low interest loans to support women entrepreneurs who are launching or scaling their ventures.

I think if I could start a movement, it would be women-centric science and tech innovation hubs.

And can you imagine if there was a global network of innovation hubs and incubators?

Exclusively for women-led science and tech startups.

And those startups were focused on critical issues that impact the health and the well-being of women and girls worldwide.

That could be a transformative landscape where breakthrough solutions are being distinctly designed by women for women.

So any interested investors, give me a call.

Second, and I guess speaking a little bit more tactically, we have to get more women into leadership positions.

I think some of the latest numbers report that only about 15% of tech startup founders are women.

We know that they're leaving industry at a higher rate than men.

And too many women are leaving their employers mid-career before they can even ascend into leadership positions.

So organizations really have to continue the work that they're starting to do to address issues like closing the gender cap in the recruitment of new talent to their organization.

And then once you have these young women within your organization, provide them with mentorship, with training and networking opportunities that connect young women in tech with experienced leaders.

And then these young women are going to have a little bit of a few golden years in the industry.

Data is like gold.

So organizations should be tracking the women's pathways to promotion.

How many women are we promoting and are advancing through our company compared to their male peers within the organization?

And try and optimize and equalize those pathways to promotion.

And then just continuing to raise awareness about the unconscious bias or sometimes,

very conscious bias that we still see can influence hiring and funding decisions in the

tech industry. And of course, we shouldn't just focus on the women who are already in the industry.

That talent pipeline needs to be developed even earlier by encouraging and inspiring more girls

and young women to consider tech as a career in the first place. So really engaging with them

in the K-12 and undergraduate path of their educational pipeline. And on that note,

you know, bravo to you and everything that you do to help support women and encourage and retain

them and promote them in careers in tech. And then I think third, and this can be somewhat

of a controversial issue, I would encourage investors to set radical targets for diversity

both the diversity in their company leadership and the diversity of the tech leaders that they

elect to invest in. We now have a really good amount of research showing that tech companies

led by women are more capital efficient and they achieve higher returns and investment by about

35 percent, 35 percent higher ROI than startups that are lower. So I think that's a really good

example of that. So I think we're reaching the point where it's no longer a question just of

ethics, access and equity, but it's simply one of good business. Like math is math. The bottom line

is going to, I think, you know, swell and change the tide here because companies and investments

are doomed to fall short or even fail if they don't invest in diverse people, especially women.

Fourth out of the five, I think spotlighting stories of successful women in tech is really

important. I actually just returned from the 2024 South by Southwest conference in Austin, Texas,

and there was no shortage of phenomenal women being showcased on stage for leading innovative

tech startups and other initiatives across all different sectors. And I think through sharing

their stories, I think that's a really good example of how we can help women in tech. And I think

through sharing their stories of success, as well as being really real about their struggles and how

they overcame them, we help to normalize the talent and the capability of women leaders in the tech

sector and really reinforce that they warrant and deserve a seat at the table and they warrant and

deserve financial support. And then maybe this just coming away from South by Southwest and seeing the

incredible, incredible, incredible, incredible, incredible, incredible, incredible, incredible,

incredible number of AI driven technologies, just new tech that is available to us. I'll throw out

one more random idea. Maybe we need to start utilizing tools like gender neutral digital

avatars for investor presentations and pitch meetings. Imagine if we could shift the focus

to evaluating startups based on merit and their potential impact,

and remove the founder's gender from the equation. I'd be really interested to see that

in action. This is a very solid list. And I don't I'm not even sure where to begin.

I will ask because you talked about women advancing into leadership. What specific

advice do you have for women in the tech industry seeking leadership roles? And how can the industry

collectively encourage and support those aspirations?

So if you're looking to move into a leadership role, I would say, stand out, have a point of view,

and be bold with your ideas. As women in tech, we're often the only woman, or one of very few women in

the room or at the decision making table.

And

your inclination can sometimes be to try to fit in, to watch and listen, and model yourself and

your behavior on what success looks like in that setting. And I admittedly, did that earlier in my

career, thinking that I had to kind of mold myself into what was becoming an outdated image of a

leader in STEM.

But here's the kicker that I've come to realize. You are the magic ingredient. Your unique experience and

perspectives, it really shapes your vision like nobody else's. So embrace the unfamiliar, seize the opportunities

that feel a little bit daunting, and dare to speak up and voice your ideas. I think that's when the real payoffs

start.

So I think that's when the real payoffs start.

When I decided to let Brooke be Brooke in the room. And if you're not feeling it, maybe it's time to find a

right fit somewhere else at a different organization. And also, I'd say, ask for what you want. Whether that's

more opportunities, more responsibility, more support, or more money. Sometimes people don't know

how they can best help you in your career journey until you ask them. And then for the second part of your

question, how can industry encourage, I think, diverse career aspirations? I think it really starts with access and

exposure to what's even possible as a career. So I think I mentioned as a young scientist, I really didn't have the

insider knowledge.

I didn't have the knowledge or role models to see what other career opportunities were even available to me at that stage in my

career. But I think today, having access to things like mentorship programs, training programs, industry workshops and

forums, online communities, or even affinity groups where women and tech can come together to connect, to share their

experience, and to share their experiences.

To build skills, build their professional network and support each other in their career aspirations is really key. And if you're a

company leader, I really want to strongly encourage you to strive to remove any financial barriers or time barriers that might

prevent women's participation in those types of opportunities.

And when you're at that stage, it's easy to do what you're always doing. But I would encourage women to look after themselves, Hae, and

those types of opportunities and activities, because they can be expensive, and they take time out of your regular workday. So

companies should be providing the financial support for women to go to conferences, participate in trainings and allow time for

them within the constraints of regular working hours to pursue those types of professional development opportunities, not require it

to be an add on, on nights and weekends.

sort of eating into the rest of your life. This is really important to build out professional

development as part of our regular day job. Thank you, Dr. Brooke. You've shared a lot of

advice, a lot of really great tips already. But if you had just one final pro tip that you wanted

to share, what would it be for the Women Who Code community? Don't be afraid of holding out

if the initial answer is a no. So I talked about asking for more, more opportunities,

responsibilities, money, support, whatever it might be, if you're going to your superior and

asking more. I'll give an example. Earlier in my career, I proposed consolidating two large

business units within our organization, bringing them together under my leadership.

Which aligned with my ambitions and my, you know, wish to ascend up the professional career ladder.

And I requested the creation of the chief scientific officer title as part of that

transition. It wasn't a title that existed at the organization at that time. Now, it wasn't an easy

win. But I persevered. And I insisted on that title. And I was able to do it. And I was able to

do it. And I was able to do it. And I was able to do it. And I was able to do it. And I was able to

do it. And I was able to do it. And I was able to do it. And I was able to do it. And that experience

really illustrated to me, and I share it with others, the importance of not being afraid to

ask for what you want and holding out even if the initial answer is a no. That's so good. Hold out

and ask for what you want. I really love that. Thank you for sharing that. For a final question,

is there anything else that you'd like for the Women Who Code community to know or have access to?

How can people find out more about you and connect with you?

Well, for those who'd like to learn more about the Blavatnik Awards for Young Scientists,

which I mentioned, fantastic opportunity for unrestricted support for early career scientists,

I encourage you to visit www.blavatnikawards.org. B-L-A-V-A-T-N-I-K awards.org. We actually have,

for opportunities throughout calendar year 2024, for early career scientists to apply for up to

$250,000 US dollars, each for a number of prizes in unrestricted prize monies through this program.

So if any of your listeners are a postdoc or early career faculty scientist, and you are at a US, UK or Israel,

university, research institution, or government lab, and you're working in the life sciences,

chemical sciences, physical sciences or engineering, please take a look at these

opportunities. And there's a series of course for applications that will become available

through October of this year. And you can learn more about this particular program and some of

the other awards opportunities that the New York Academy of Music has for the rest of the year.

Thank you for listening to this interview and I look forward to see you next year in the conference.

And I love to hear from you. Thank you. I also appreciate every one of you. Thank you so much for

joining us today. We're so excited to have you on the show today. Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you for

joining us today. And I hope you have a wonderful evening and a wonderful day. Thank you so much for joining us.

that the New York Academy of Sciences offers by visiting our website at www.nyas.org.

And for anyone who wants to connect with me, you can connect with me via the Academy's website

or also on LinkedIn at linkedin.com forward slash in forward slash Brooke Grinlinger.

Awesome. It has been such a pleasure learning more about you and the work that you do

in the ways that you are creating opportunities for women scientists and women in tech.

Thank you so much for your time. And thank you to everyone for tuning in to the Women Who Code

podcast. You're so welcome. This was really fun. I hope it's been helpful to all your listeners.

And my last words of encouragement are we need more women in tech. You got this,

come join us. We can do amazing things together. The world needs us. So come join me.