50th Podcast!

hi this is steve can't get to your call right now so please leave a message

thanks to page this person press five now

steve you little bitch you are a freaking asshole you say hey josh let's podcast

a night early one night early so i i adjust my plans for you i say hey when when do you

want to do you say hey 8 8 30 it's 8 36 bro 8 36

happy 50th josh happy 50th steve hey we're on i chat right now right go ahead and look at what

i'm sending you well back at you there buddy yeah that's really nice of you see that's

impressive come on see if you just type that up real quick yeah

josh sent me a big finger yeah you know how some people do like you know the happy face that's

winking yeah that's josh's little signature i've got i used a finger i'll put it on our

description so everyone can see yeah i need to paste that i'm going to copy and paste that yeah

that's good shit no i have i have it saved just because it's like i found it once and i was like

oh that's good well for the next time i don't want to respond to the davids from

told

yeah stupid church person of the the millennium

yeah so um so let's see so it's our 50th podcast many thought we wouldn't make it

i did many you didn't many didn't expect us to uh still be standing i thought maybe the tony

joneses of the world would would do us in or the church from what was that church westborough

baptist

you know uh you know that that they would come pick at us or something because they hate fags

yeah steve is quite a fag and so i think that uh after 50 podcasts you know um we just we thought

of doing something special and then we just um then i changed the date on josh and decided to

do something early and uh so that ruined that and uh just the last minute i thought hey let's do it

and um so here we are so 50 podcasts

we've made it uh i just don't know what to say i'm speechless are you i was going through our

stats just so people can know so we can talk about how great we are yeah let's talk about how great

we are let's talk about how great we are there's gonna be other people who have like a podcast they

just started and they're gonna be like dude that's nothing yeah well no i just think it's interesting

like i said you know i was talking to you before we started i mean i can't believe that since we

started we've had 85 000 like downloads you know we've had 85 000 downloads we've had 85 000 downloads

yeah of all our podcasts yeah i mean that's just that's just i speechless yeah but like

80 000 of them were you like re-download uh kind of 64 000 but anyway so it's just it just to me

you know as we talk about you know leaving ministry or doing all these other things and

you know the goal of all communicators is to reach people and we didn't start the podcast

just to talk to ourselves

we started it because we thought we had something to say and you know hey ego's a part of it

we admit that and and so i'm glad that we reached number 50 we should have been here sooner like a

year ago yeah exactly i think we did like 25 the first year and then it's taken us two years to do

or whatever yeah it's taken us forever to get to number 50 but here we are here we are you get any

you get any special music or something you can play for our 50th like like a sound effect or something like that

sound effect or something what would be the sound effect that would symbolize our 50th

no no i got the right one

or or

the gong show do we get off the stage yeah we should get off the stage so tell me about going

to church you went to church this last week i think it's appropriate that we have our 50th

and we used to you know we used to do this in the church we used to do the podcast

in a church yeah no i went i went to my brother's church you know he really wanted me to go see him

play um it was awesome i i really enjoyed it it's a smaller church um you know that's trying not to

be too trendy but in trying not to do so they're being extremely trendy but they're still pretty

cool i mean i really like it where they're they're not trying to be too polished um

it's just refreshing to see when you know you and i are

around you know saddleback we see these big productions and this is definitely not a big

production so i think if i end up going back to church or should i say when i go back to church

or if i do um i'll probably start at least start off with this one to and hope to god this one

works uh it was good it was good it was weird it's always weird for me in the uh to sit in the

in a

pew yeah and go there was a pew it was a pew church oh yeah definitely a pew poo poo pew church

um yeah i don't want to give too much i don't want to disclose too much just because i don't

want people to bash my brother's church um but no i enjoyed it yeah god knows there's not you know

a lot of churches with pews we want to identify which church it is no no because it's going to

go further but i i stopped my

pews and it has a pulpit it has a baptismal it has a baptismal hmm so it could be of the

baptist variety or see i don't even know what church he goes to does it have like the does

it have like the baptistry like that's up high behind where the choir sits you know you and it's

got like the glass thing so you can see the water in it no you need to even think more minimal you

need to think big church you need to think big church you need to think big church you need to

think big church with a small chapel their church their church is the small chapel right if that

makes sense or you go to the you go to the christian camp their church is that little

chapel that's on the little hill that you go right at and spiritual you know we're going to

have am worship at the small chapel you know and it's not mandatory those really spiritual kids

exactly yeah

show up yeah

and it's always the ones that are like like

leaning back and forth bobbing their head just yes raising their hands yeah exactly and you're

like you guys look like a fucking they're crying they're crying well no i i um i just remember the

baptistry in my church was behind where the choir sits and then it had the glass or the plexiglass

or whatever it was i think it was glass and then you could see the water in the baptistry

and and yeah yeah oh oh

hold on pause

so anyway that was that was jesus that was yeah that was jesus calling to say quit making fun of

my children at camp my children at camp they're reaching out at me some reason what i did jesus i

did a black man yeah well i honestly think jesus was kind of black i think i don't think he was a

black from the hood though i don't think he was like yo man take care of my children oh that's

that's like mr t that's a mr t but i don't think he was a black from the hood though i don't think

he was a black jesus like rolling down the street with the cross on his back he's like i like big

crosses and i just can't lie those other brothers just can't deny hey did you see did you see that

ninja nun on myspace put um pimp juice did you see her on the thing it was uh pimp juice it was

like a coca-cola can but it had pimp juice written on it nice and i put uh hey don't don't uh be

putting down and life and slandering the pimps of our world and i put uh hey don't don't uh be

putting down and life and slandering the pimps of our world yeah like steve chastain yeah anyway

you have to read our josh's post on jesus juice to get that joke but anyway um so josh went to

church he went to a small little church and um we were talking about the baptism that's right but

i do want everyone to experience a quick demo of the band oh okay sure okay just because their

music is a little different but like if you're a musician you'll love it if you're trying to be

attracted and entertained you won't like that i almost like that so so here again this is a demo

this is not what it's going to end up sound like it's straight from the soundboard so

okay cool here we go let it roll

my jesus is a rock in the weary land all the weary land weary land my jesus is a rock

in the weary land he's sheltering the time of storm my jesus is a rock in the weary land

the weary land all the weary land my jesus is a rock

In the weary land, he's sheltered in the time of storm.

I know I've been converted.

Oh, Lord, I ain't ashamed.

Oh, because Jesus is my captain.

Angels on the side of my name.

Oh, Jesus is rock.

In the weary land, oh, the weary land.

The weary land, my Jesus is a rock.

In the weary land, he's sheltered in the time of storm.

I know I want to go to heaven.

Oh, Lord, I want to go there right.

I know I got to keep on praying.

You got to pray both day and night.

My Jesus is a rock in the weary land.

The weary land, oh, the weary land.

My Jesus is a rock in the weary land.

He's sheltered in the time of storm.

My Jesus is a rock.

In the weary land, oh, the weary land.

Oh, the weary land, my Jesus is a rock.

In the weary land, he's sheltered in the time of storm.

He's sheltered in the time of storm.

Storm.

Hey, is that the right thing to do after you play a song?

Sorry, Steve.

Sorry.

You just laughed at that band.

That's not very funny.

No, I love it.

I really enjoy it.

At least you didn't do it.

What?

At least you didn't go.

No, no.

No, I liked it.

I say one digit up.

Yeah, okay.

Hey, you know the hymn Higher Ground?

Yes, yes.

Okay, they did the hymn earlier in the service, Higher Ground, normal way, with all guitars.

My brother was playing the, I think, mandolin on that one.

Okay.

And then for the offering, which I didn't give a cent to, but they told me not to, so I didn't.

They redid the whole song, Higher Ground.

Oh, cool.

My brother played the dobro, which he plays in that song.

That's my brother with the little slide guitar.

Uh-huh.

Honestly, it was the best Higher Ground I've ever heard in my life.

Like, I can't wait for these guys to record a CD.

It's phenomenal.

You know, my feelings toward the church and you going to church, and I mean, again, I'm

just so ambivalent towards it all.

I need to look up ambivalent, but I think I am.

But I hear about you going to church, and I'm like, that's great.

You know, I hear about somebody else going to church.

Yeah.

I was talking.

I was talking to a friend the other night, and anyway, sorry.

And she said she was going to go to church the next day.

I don't know why I'm laughing.

I think because we were at a bar, and she said she was going to church the next day, and

I went, okay, because she was getting hammered.

But anyway, I was just laughing about that.

But my thought is, that's cool.

Go to church.

Again, it's not about people going to church.

It's not.

I'm not putting down people that go to church.

I just, right now, for me, not interested.

I totally understand.

Ambivalent.

I think you should go if you want to.

I think that if you don't want to go and have a spiritual life, you should go, you know,

not go.

So, I don't get this whole...

Well, no, you can have a spiritual life outside the walls of church.

And it's funny, because the whole time they were talking, the whole sermon was pretty

much about excommunicating people from the church.

Oh, perfect.

It was perfect for you.

You know, that's why I did a blog that was funny, because all of a sudden, the pastor,

the pastor, associate pastor.

He looks up, turns around, and he does the whole, is my mic on?

Can you guys hear me?

Okay, okay.

He looks up.

He's like, hey, Josh.

And then looks at me.

Everyone turns around and looks at me.

My face gets red.

And he just continues with the sermon.

I'm like, oh, my gosh.

This is going to be amazing.

That's funny.

Well, at least somebody knew you.

Yeah, exactly.

And somebody noticed you were there.

Of course, that's such a no-no in traditional church, you know?

Yep.

So, that was kind of nice.

So, it's small enough.

It's small enough that he felt like he could say something.

I mean, it's like the church, too, I went to in Florida, you know, that I told you about.

Yep.

They would, they, it was basically them sitting there, and then they'd go, who brought a friend?

Why don't you tell us, introduce them?

Yeah, I love that.

You know?

And Sharon's sitting there, and she goes, this is my friend, Steve.

He's from California.

And I go, hey, everybody.

He has a website, stupidchurchpeople.com.

Well, yeah, that was later.

When I was talking to the pastor, that came out.

Yeah.

That was awkward, or the priest, or whatever he was.

I felt really weird, you know, Father, forgive me, for I have a site called Stupid Church

People.

But, no, and then afterwards, during the little break, or whatever, they came around, and

it wasn't just turn to your neighbor.

It was walk around and greet those you don't know.

Huh.

So, it was like, everybody.

It was, again, you know, it's different.

And I think that's cool, whatever.

I dig it, though.

Like, that sounds better.

Yeah.

Yeah, just walk around.

They took, like, a five-minute break.

It was like a bathroom.

Oh, my gosh.

Or something.

I don't know.

And they just walked around.

They mingled.

People talked.

They, you know, asked me where I was from.

And we kind of had a little, you know, circle time where people came up.

It was just cool, you know.

I thought it was nice.

It's a different way of doing it.

And that's what I want to see in a church.

Kind of like what you just experienced, you know.

It's something different, you know.

I also want to say about this church that they don't have any dim lighting.

They're not playing with your emotions that way.

And when you walk in between services, there's no music.

There's no music playing.

There's nothing.

Right.

There's just an empty room.

Right.

With a fan on because it's kind of hot.

Yeah.

You know?

Yeah.

Well, one of the, yeah.

It's just different.

Now, you know, and also I know, you know, I haven't gone to every church in the world.

I'm just talking about the type of churches that I was around, which were seeker-sensitive,

seeker-driven, you know, that whole kind of church growth slash emergent type.

When souls for Jesus.

Yeah.

By using Evan Almighty.

You know?

Exactly.

And, yeah.

Have you seen the new thing, Ark Almighty?

Have you seen that?

No.

What's this?

You've got to go to arkalmighty.com.

It's basically, it's youth specialties putting it together.

Oh, shh.

And they're putting out this whole deal where you, it's actually not a bad idea.

It's just, I tried to sit there and find a way to make fun of it.

And I guess I could, but I'm not sure.

I don't know.

I don't like it just in principle, but I don't know specifically why I don't like

it yet.

It's not like they're doing anything wrong.

They're talking about churches using this website, and you create like a little MySpace

or a Facebook page for your church through this website, and then people post needs that

they have, and then other people post skills that they have, and they try to meet together

people's skills with people's needs.

I don't know.

It's not a bad idea.

I just, Ark Almighty, though.

I thought...

It got on, and a big fat guy walked on the screen and started talking.

Well, that's John Goodman.

That's John Goodman from Robyn Varshow.

Yeah.

Well, let me refresh my page here.

Yeah, that's John Goodman.

Come back, John.

He's not coming back.

Yeah.

Big old hefty dude.

So, he must love Jesus.

But, anyway, I guess some guys with youth specialties had something to do with the Evan

Almighty project, so...

Yeah, I see Willow Creek as well, huh?

So, yeah, there you go.

So, anyway, so, Evan Almighty looks like it blows, so that's good.

I know.

It's been getting horrible reviews.

Well, that's good.

I just hate that Steve Carell is going to be getting horrible reviews.

He's awesome.

Well, I was watching...

You know what?

It's the material, you know?

He can only do so much, and it just looks like every clip I see, like they've been showing

extended clips during the office, it just doesn't look that good.

Yeah.

He's going, he's going, duh, duh, duh, oh my God, my beard's growing, my beard's growing,

you know?

It's like, okay.

You know, it just bugged me.

Anyway.

Bugged me, so...

Yeah, so, speaking of youth specialties, we could talk about my latest blog.

Yes.

Youth Ministry Hijinks.

And I was over on Marie's blog, which is, I can't remember the name of her blog, but

unbelievably believable.

And she's a young lady.

I think she's, I don't know, maybe she's, I don't know how old she is, but anyway, she's

talking a lot about her transition from church, out of church, and now struggling with faith

issues as well.

But her, one of her latest posts was about the youth ministry and how it spent all this

energy and money on drawing kids in with these games.

And so I just commented on that and just saying that, I wrote a sentence that I kind of regret

writing, where I wrote that some of what I did throughout my years in ministry was outright

manipulation.

And a subtle form of child abuse.

And I guess my...

Wait, why do you take that back?

Why do you...

Well, I'm not taking, I don't, I'm not taking it back.

I just say I regret it because it's out of context.

It was a thought I had in my mind and I didn't fully explain it, so it makes me sound like

kind of weird.

See, but me, from who is in it with you, I understand it.

I think I get what you were trying to say.

I know, I know you didn't abuse children.

Certainly.

But I understand what you're saying.

I mean, you abused them maybe spiritually?

I think that what I did, especially when I was younger in ministry, was take advantage

of kids' emotions and manipulated their emotions and mistook that for helping them grow spiritually.

Exactly.

And so, and a lot of that was just me being a kid leading kids, you know?

And somebody reposted this post on their website.

It's a website called...

Rethinking Youth Ministry, something like that.

And he commented on it.

And I went, I kind of talked over there how, you know, I was 18, I was 18 years old when

I started in youth ministry as a youth pastor.

And that's just too young, you know?

And 18 to 22, you just don't know anything, you know?

You just don't.

So I don't have a problem with young people.

But you think you do.

Oh, totally.

It's 19-year-old syndrome.

You think you know everything there is.

You're now an adult.

Well, let me fix you.

And I don't, and again, I don't have a problem with young people entering ministry.

That's not what I was saying in my post.

Or even young people loving kids.

Young people leading young people.

I don't think it's a problem.

I think that when you're put in charge of a ministry at that young of an age, there's

some certain amount of spiritual growth and actually more physical and emotional growth

that you're going through.

Yeah.

And I just think it's way too important.

I think it's way too important to put somebody 20 years old in front of a youth group.

I don't care how small the church is.

I think we do that.

And somebody mentioned it on the side.

I think we do it because we're lazy.

Yeah.

I think we do it because we're lazy.

And you didn't actually start in full-time church ministry.

You were more of a volunteer at that age.

And I don't think that's a problem having volunteers that are at that age.

Yeah.

But they push you.

They push you to continue.

So by age 19, I was a paid intern.

Right.

By age 21, I was a paid youth director.

I was in charge of a full 20.

No, I was 20 at the time.

And I was in charge of a full youth ministry.

Right.

You know?

Yeah.

Now, I have a question for you, though, on your blog that kind of stood out to me.

And I think other people.

Because I read the comments.

So you kind of end the thought by saying,

then go out and hire a 30-something youth pastor, preferably a woman.

Be prepared to pay them well so they will stick around.

I understand the pay them well.

I don't even have to ask what well means.

It means so they can actually live.

Because I know in Southern California,

it's just poverty they offer youth ministers,

which was funny about this church when they introduced the new youth minister.

I could have pointed him out in the crowd.

But why a woman?

Why would it be preferred for a youth ministry?

Well, I think I put that for a couple of reasons.

One is to get reactions out of people, to be honest.

Well, no.

I understand that.

Yeah.

That's one reason.

Because I think that what the church does is everything but do that.

I think it's a good old boys club still.

I think it's male dominated.

I think that male pastors and churches led by mostly men don't value women.

I totally agree with that.

I don't think they think, and I know I didn't, think that women could do the job as well

as I could.

But I see things totally different now.

Now being in the workforce and then specifically what I also feel, and this is my friend Jenny

over at Steeples and Peebles is probably going to give me an earful for this, but because

I think it's a sexist, maybe it's not really sexist.

I guess I just see that women are a little bit more, in my opinion, a little less interested

in their ego, a little less interested in stepping up a ladder.

I think they're more committed to a job and sticking with a job.

I think they're less worried about leaving their mark on the world and making a statement

about being powerful and all this other stuff.

I think women are more organized than men.

I mean, I know these are generalities.

Yeah, as a majority.

I know I'm being general, but I'm just saying, here's what I've learned, and I could be completely

wrong, and maybe I'm an idiot.

Well, we know that.

Well, and we're fine with that.

Because if you're not, F you.

We're going to try to stop customizing.

The personality type of male that's predominantly pursuing youth ministry and even a senior

pastorate from that is a certain people type, and I just think that that is very ego-driven,

myself included.

And I guess what I'm saying is I think that that's not the place for it.

Because it's easy at that point to be a hero.

It's easy for kids to look up to you as a hero and lose sight of really why you're there.

And I don't think a woman in that same position is as interested in that type, building that

type of ministry that's built around a personality.

She's probably less, and there's men that are less interested than others, too.

I mean, maybe what we need to hire is a bunch of 30-something youth pastors, men.

Or women that are a little bit differently gifted or a little bit different.

What, that play War of Warcraft all day?

No, that are maybe a different temperament.

I think what we do in a church, and see, again, I know I'm going to get slammed for this,

so it's really probably not male or female.

It's probably just about personality type.

Yeah.

I think the churches get lazy.

They hire a young, typically good-looking, athletic, energetic.

Yes.

And extremely dynamic and charismatic, and they put him in front of the kids, and they

say, go get a bunch of kids at the church.

Yeah.

And they do the lazy thing.

Rather than looking for somebody, and the reason I said woman is just because they usually

don't look towards women.

Nope.

Is hire somebody that's going to stay there, do the right thing by the kids, be less interested

in stepping up and stepping, you know, and pay them well so they'll stick around.

And I think...

I think, you know, the personality type you need to look for like that is opposite of

what most churches do, so...

You know, and my thought is, and this is probably the part that's going to send me to hell.

I know the Marshall brothers, or maybe it's just Jeff that always says he hates it when

I say we're going to hell.

But, like, I know for a fact that, you know, I manipulate kids, and, well, no, here, let

me rephrase that.

Like, I wish we could find youth workers that just wanted to love kids.

You know, we didn't worry about numbers.

We didn't care about saving their soul, and that's what I'm saying I'm going to go to

hell for.

Like, who cares about saving their soul?

Let's just love them.

Right.

And that's the problem.

We look at it as, well, you know, Jesus is coming back like a thief in the night.

You never know.

So, you've got to convert, you know, and I just don't see it that way.

And you ended your blog with, and if all of that sounds too hard, just disband your youth

ministry altogether.

And I love that, because I'm thinking, maybe that's the right way to do it.

Right.

You know, it's just say, okay, let's not try and manipulate these kids by offering video

games.

Because every youth ministry I've ever had had video games.

Hmm.

The last one had a whole room designated for it.

The church didn't even have its own building, but it had a game room.

Right.

Okay.

A lounge.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah.

Dude, it's to manipulate kids that Jesus is fun.

Yeah.

Jesus never said anything about being fun.

Actually, Jesus said it's going to be really hard.

Yeah.

So, it...

If they want to stick to the guns, what they got to do is make church a bitch, where it

just sucks.

Maybe they need to be more like the Catholic church.

Right.

Because you want to be like reality, if that's what the Bible is.

So, I think that was your most powerful statement, was just disband it.

Well, and the reason I said that is, and I tried to, I was trying to make a different

point there, and I kind of cleared it up in the comments.

But, I guess what I'm saying is, if you want your youth ministry to be effective, I just

think if you look at statistics, and you talk to teenagers, and from what I recall in the

last couple of years, the things I've read, the things I understand about where the church

is headed, and what's happening in the church, and I know I'm not in the church, but that

doesn't mean I'm stupid and don't read about the church.

I don't have to be in it to study it and to learn from it.

Because when you're in the church, you're just consumed about...

You're in your church, and you just get into this whole mindset of, well, we're doing it.

But if you look at the whole, I think statistics will bear out that kids are leaving the churches

in groves.

Kids are not sticking with the faith.

They're moving away from faith.

And if the Christian church is supposedly having such a strong youth ministry, well,

the statistics aren't showing it.

And my point was, do something different.

Do something different than what you're doing.

If you keep doing what you've always been doing, you're going to keep getting the results

that you've always been getting.

And youth ministry, by and large, is ineffective.

It has been ineffective for years because we do the same thing.

We're doing the same things, and we're getting the same results.

And so my thought is, hey, you've been putting young people in charge of young people all

these years, whether you're a small church or a big church.

You've been doing that.

Well, why don't you try something different?

And most of it has been predominantly male.

Well, why don't we just take it and change it and do something different?

30-something-year-old women, I don't think there's a lot of them that are youth pastors.

Maybe we try something different for a change.

And I don't know.

I just picked a number 30-something.

And the sick part is that when I was in youth ministry, you'd go to Christian camp, right?

You'd go to your summer camp at the big camps, and there'd be other churches there.

And then you'd always see that one church.

I mean, you'd have to be with a small—I mean, if you went there with Saddleback, Steve,

you took over the whole camp.

Yes, we did.

We kicked ass, man.

Yeah, man.

We kicked ass, took names, bitch.

We invited all the little churches.

We invited all the little churches so they could be awed by us.

No, but that's my point.

I grew up in the same thing.

From elementary school to high school, my church always took up the whole camp.

Okay.

But what I'm saying is when you go to the camp with all the other churches, and then

you see that one church that has the five kids, the maybe 10 kids, and yeah, the leader's

50.

Right.

You laugh at it.

You're like, look at that.

Look at that.

This guy doesn't even know these kids.

And you know a lot of reason why you laughed at that, Josh, and that I did the same thing,

is because you were young.

Exactly.

You were young, and you're looking at that 50-year-old.

How does he relate?

He doesn't know it there.

And he must not be relating because he's only got 10 kids in the group.

Exactly.

Yeah, but he probably loved them and cared for them more than I did.

Exactly.

And I think that, you know, I think that we just have to—

rethink the way we do youth ministry and change some things.

And you're right.

We looked around us, and we looked at churches that had small youth groups, and we tended

to think, well, you know, I'm not sure.

Power by numbers, dude.

Yeah.

You know?

Yeah.

And I just think that youth ministry is ineffective.

And the reason I picked 30-something is because, you know, I wrote today, I think—I don't

really think my ministry became effective until I was around the age of 28.

I think that's when I actually had a little bit more of a mature perspective on things,

and I wasn't as swayed by the cute little girls in my group that thought I was great.

And, I mean, I know I'm going to take shit for even just saying that over the microphone,

but it's true.

I mean, when you're 22, 23, and you've got the 15-, 16-year-old girls who think you're

cool—

And looking up to you.

I mean, it happens to every—

Yeah.

It happens to every youth pastor.

And anyone that says it doesn't—

Is lying.

Exactly.

I can name names, but I won't.

And you pay attention to those kids that like you, guys and girls.

You pay attention to them more.

And the ones that don't like you or aren't awed by your awesomeness, by your perceived

awesomeness, you ignore them.

And, you know, anybody can—I know Mark David and all those bitches are going to say,

well, Steve, you know what?

You were the bad guy.

You were the idiot.

You know what?

No.

I was human.

I was a young male driven by my hormones and by my ego.

And you know what I became?

An older male with less hormones but still a big ego because that's the way I thought

the world worked.

I thought that you paid attention to the people that empowered you and you ignored the people

that didn't agree with you.

And anyway, I just think it's time that—

Yeah.

Well, I think it's funny that, you know, over a year—what, probably a year and a half

ago now, we said, just be done with church, and now we're saying, just be done with youth

ministry.

You know, I think it's a funny turn of events, just that it's like—

Well, I will say this, Josh.

I think that the hope for the church is youth ministry.

I believe that you can make changes within a youth ministry, you can make changes within

a church.

I do believe that.

I do.

that most pastors are lazy and most churches are lazy.

And they want to keep kids busy and happy, and they don't want to hear from parents,

and they don't want it to affect parents leaving the church because that affects the tithe.

So I just think that they really don't give a lot of focus on youth ministry.

And so my call out is put a little more money there.

Put a little more attention there.

And if you do that, I think you'll get different results.

But that's just me.

So what do I know?

No, I'm with you.

I'm so stoked.

I've yet to comment on your blog just because I try not to talk just because I get fired up.

And I've been pretty good lately about biting my tongue.

Well, I'm going to write some more about it because it's something I've stayed away from it for a while.

But I think it is the one subject that I actually do have a decent voice in.

So people can say what they want.

I stepped away from youth ministry because I no longer felt like it was a call, whatever that means.

But I definitely didn't want it to just be a job because I think youth ministry is way too important just to give a half-ass effort.

And so when I felt I was doing a half-ass effort, I went and looked for something else to do.

And I think that's honest.

So here we are, number 50.

We made it through.

And we're talking now about youth ministry.

We're talking about the things we started with.

And I think that's cool.

Well, happy birthday.

It's not a birthday.

Happy 50th.

I don't know what you would call this.

Yeah, this is just a celebration.

A celebration of life.

Of life and love and happiness.

And love and happiness.

Amen.