Scout gets real; Honda/GM EV crossovers; Hyundai's N 74 is go | Autoblog Podcast #847

welcome back to the auto blog podcast i'm greg migliori we have an awesome show for you this

week uh lots to talk about we're going to talk about the honda prologue elite and its long lost

sibling the chevy blazer uh associate editor byron heard and i traded off the blazer a few

weeks back and i literally just got out of the prologue uh byron's been in the s60 which is a

car that he's been in for a little while and he also spent a lot of time in our former long-termer

uh got a little bit to talk about with the volkswagen gli then we'll break down some news

this week uh the hyundai vision n74 uh appears to likely maybe probably

kind of sort of confirmed ish be headed for production talk about some other news uh out

of scout and the redesigned uh nissan armada we have a kind of a fun little uh spend my money

segment as well with that byron what is going on hey i am uh i'm in garage mode over here i've got

uh all my materials being delivered for my new garage build which if any of you read my uh sl63

versus chrysler pacific a bit this is my uh my midlife mecca that i'm chasing here

so uh getting ready to start construction on that here in the coming weeks and get ready to convert

a an existing two car into a three and enjoy this beautiful weather that we're starting to get here

the fall is coming to southeast michigan and i'm i'm here for it i feel like it's a fake fall to

be honest like this early we often get this kind of like uh like the first week after labor day it

gets even colder than it should be and then it'll be like 90 until probably mid-october and then

it's like 48 degrees um at the back of the yard as i looked at my phone and let the dog out this

morning um but it's gonna warm up i think it is gonna be close to 80 later so the leaves are

turning i played golf last weekend and i was losing balls right and left into brightly colored

uh yellow and orange trees not totally yellow and orange but they're getting that kind of

tint to them so yeah it's starting it's starting you're ready for some cider

yeah cider donuts fall beers give me some some some pumpkin beers and some uh october fests and

i'm a happy man i'm not the biggest pumpkin beer guy but like for a couple weeks in october if it's

the right one sure all day yeah i never used to be and just i don't remember what it was that turned

me on it was just something someone served to me in a bar and said hey trust me and you know what

i did so here we are that's actually how you can get into a lot of different beers as you get it

off draft and you're like oh

okay that was really good that was cold maybe it was your third beer of the night and it tastes a

little better than it should have and you know hey you go down that rabbit hole uh-huh all right

so we've got the chevy blazer and the honda prologue elite uh for those of you that don't

know genetically these are very similar um they are under the skin the same thing and then after

like basically gm did the work on this and then honda and chevy each received a uh crossover

that's how it worked out i just got out of the prologue it was the elite trim it was all-wheel

drive it had uh uh the epa range rating was about 273 miles uh pretty powerful 288 horsepower

and again it was dual motor all-wheel drive it was pretty loaded up too with the elite trim

so you know lots of like heated seats um you know nice relatively nice leather interior

uh 21

i think were the wheels they look pretty cool and it was this kind of like coastal teal green

turquoise color so really attention getting i really like the the design i usually in these

sort of like joint ventures is not the right word here but like tandems there's one i like a lot more

than the other and this one i'm a little bit torn i really like the equinox i did the first drive

of it uh back in late may and i like the styling of that

but i also like the honda sort of styling here too it's it's very minimalist it's very honda

sort of like a modern interpretation of its 1980s look uh which i think is good uh still in keeping

with the times uh so i liked it i did a fair amount of uh you know driving in it this weekend

i took it from close to 300 miles topped off to about 100 when i left so you know that tells you

um

but it was pretty good yeah i liked it overall one major flaw uh the infotainment did not work

the whole stinking weekend i you know did all the tricks hold the power button down for five

seconds turn the car off turn the car on get in on the car get out of the car uh so it just appears

we got a glitchy one uh in this specific tester but did not encounter that with the equinox uh i

will say gm infotainment is generally slightly better than the equinox uh but i think it's

better than honda infotainment uh that's a definitely a broad statement but i would kind

of put it that way so uh mini review of the prologue got a lot of golf clubs in it picked

up a buddy we went down to rouge park which is a little your general area uh played golf played

18 down there and we got two sets of clubs in their car seat fit in the back it was a little

tight not too bad you know groceries soccer balls all that other good stuff too

it was comfortable and the regen braking was uh that was not nothing uh the passengers really

noticed that everybody whether they are used to being in press cars with me or not they were like

whoa hey that's pretty quick off the line as you would expect and outside of the infotainment

i i did like the vehicle overall so yeah so you have uh spent some time uh in the blazer which

we traded a few weeks back

you know again under the skin of the same thing um you know what what do you think of the blazer

do you think you would have a preference between these two having not driven the honda yet it's

kind of hard to say for sure but i i did actually enjoy the blazer quite a bit i'm i we're kind of

reaching the point now where people have sort of normalized ev acceleration and i feel like the

the mid and lower trim blazers are kind of a real good look into like what we can expect from

typical evs going forward so i think it's a good thing to have a preference between these two

going forward where like sure there's tons of torque and you can get moving it doesn't have

that like neck snapping inside rearranging feeling that you get from like an ss or from some of the

other evs so it's a little more kind of an everyday kind of feel to it i actually like it i

think it's it's a good you know throttle application if you want to call it that even

though it's you know electronic and everything's weird but uh i did actually enjoy driving it

quite a bit um the the the general just like the seating position like the the adjustability of

actually that was one of the better ones i've actually from a from a gm vehicle in in recent

memory so i was actually surprised by how quickly i was able to find a comfortable seating position

in that car even in my own car i'm a cadillac and i struggle sometimes to to fix that whenever i

have to like go through and redo the memory settings or something like that actually getting

my seat position right like if i've worn a helmet or something like that and had to you know change

it and didn't have the memory set it can take me you know an hour or so driving before i actually

feel like i've gotten it back to where it's supposed to be but with the blazer it was like a

minute ordeal in and done everything adjusted and ready to roll it feels like a very ergonomically

put together car and uh the the electric powertrain is what it is i mean that's either your jam or it's

not so you know we're we're kind of reaching the point where you can really kind of choose your own

adventure with this stuff we're not so much limited by what's practical we're just kind of

limited by preference so and cost of course you know yes evidence by the the equinox situation

you just mentioned you drove the you were on the equinox ev first drive and i just did the equinox

ice first drive and you know between the two of them like if you look at them they you know they

look like they're both in equinox but they're completely different vehicles beyond you know

the basic you know branding and marketing of them and so you know you're paying a good 30 to 40

premium to get into the electric over a base gas model and the gas models now are not very diverse

you're getting a pretty finite selection you can't get supercruise and a gas you can only get that on

like cost and tech and stuff like that and where their buyers are for each so it'll be interesting

to see how that changes and blazer is in kind of a weird spot because chevy already gave up on the

whole notion of making it like an off-road vehicle again so you know they've got other space to play

in if they're going to do that kind of thing so it's kind of interesting like does blazer remain

like an ev focus platform going forward or does it just kind of like serve a stop gap and then

kind of make way for something either more interesting or something more mainstream

the next generation

it's kind of hard to say yeah no i agree with you and it's it's really interesting how sort of

flooding the zone on or chevy and to a lesser extent i think even honda are in the segment

with ice vehicles with evs um they're working together on you know a couple here so uh it's

definitely a part of the market where um when i went on the equinox drive they really talked

about how just in this segment as in like that sort of

compact mid-size and then everything in between segment of crossover more is more

they're that was chevy's approach they're like we want to grow our volume we think we're going to

grow the segment um yada yada yada they just that was their thing it's just we're going to throw

everything you know all the spaghetti at the wall that you can think of so um you know i mean so

obviously when it comes to ice and evs you have choices here uh the equinox i think

is a little more basic and then you get like but you can dress it up plenty then you get the blazer

and the prologue which are you know genetically about the same under the skin and the equinox is

an ultium based product as well it's just like shorter wheelbase um and you know a little a

little more basic but i do like the design of that one so the one thing that i i guess i was

conflicted going back to the prologue was while i like the interior frankly a little bit more

in some ways than the chevy's because the chevy's are very chevy they're like you can almost feel

the corvette and camaro themes which it looks good but i almost like the minimalistic honda

approach a little bit more just if i'm going to live with it um but also as in the elite so when

you're in a nice trim like that which it starts at like 47 i think you know it's you're definitely

the minimalistic interior can definitely look about as good as it can look you know

so yeah um so yeah i mean i guess do you have a preference of like you've seen the both i know

you haven't driven the prologue but from a design perspective blazer is very in your face it's got

those like the angled fender flares um it's almost like scalloped like comparing it to like a 68

charger is a bit you know hyperbolic but you can probably see what i'm doing there and then the

honda is much more well honda i mean what do you think yeah i actually i think i go with the

gm on this one i like i like the way the blazer looks i mean it's it's not a segment i have any

personal interest in so it's hard for me to like get excited about any of them but at the same time

like if i had to look at one of them i think that's the one i'd pick and the interior like

chevy's well gm in general is is just so close to nailing so many of these interiors like there's

just like weird little things here and there that like either make you scratch your head or

it like seems like lateral progress if you want to call it lateral anything progress but just you

the the manual like low switch for the transmission like on the steering wheel just because it

doesn't fit on the little toggle in the ice equinox like little weird like anachronistic

things like that where it's just like okay this made sense in my 2001 f-150 why are we still doing

this in 2024 and so it's just they're so close but honda kind of does the same weird little things

not the same things but similarly weird things like the tiny little digital clocks and stuff

like that they look like they're straight out of like 1989 but with

more leds than they had back then like it's it there's just weird little things like that i feel

like that hold both of them back in different ways that would bug me a little bit as an owner and i

mean there are things in my car that bug me as an owner they're just small enough that i don't care

that much and i feel like for most owners this is the same like noise level type of complaint

but i think they're both like 99 there in just strangely different ways yeah i'd agree with that

and again i got it was tough for me to get a total read on luck

the overall prologue experience because again the infotainment didn't work all i could do was

voice control like you know the radio stations i happened to know um you know their call signs

or whatever all weekend so that was a little frustrating um but and i really like the blazer

too to kind of for me to circle back on that i had it for a couple days this was i think we both

drove it mid-august now as i look back on it really attractive crossover

fun to drive um you know it's it got plenty of attention too it is a little bit bigger than

the equinox so i think you know and there's plenty of room in the back seat that was another

um area that i was impressed with the uh the blazer that was cool

i think i went golfing in the blazer too i'm really taking my golf game uh up a level as

these final weeks of summer or early fall are winding down uh fun to drive though

it looks really good um yeah i mean i think you know again it's the blazer to me is almost like

the halo for chevy in this part and then the equinox is like hey we also have this one if

maybe the blazer you want isn't available or uh you know that type of thing so um yeah i like them

both i think it's a a good opportunity for chevy to really hit the ev segment about as hard as it

can and you know they mentioned hey they're

trying to um you know as mary barra their ceo has said they want to like be one of the leaders in

the segment whereas i think jim farley at ford they're you know they're taking more of a nuanced

approach with hybrids with they still have like the book ed dvs with mach-e and uh you know the

f-150 lightning but they've kind of backpedaled whereas chevy i think at least still tries to be

going full bore although they've been doing it for a long time so i think it's a good opportunity

to talk at hybrids too i just just less specifically would be you know a way to look

at it um side note in the blazer i drove uh i did a hot lap with it with uh at oakland county sheriff

um it was part of the equinox event they were just like we want to give you guys a chance to

drive the blazer i think i just rode in it you know this is before i drove it and he's like

he was one of the guys who you know tested police cars for like 40 years

we were like just blasting like straight at cones then doing like you know 90 degree turns and like

the tires were done by the time we were done with that and they were done in police car livery which

is cool um which illustrates that chevy is going to put the blazers in the police feet that fleet

and i think it would be good for that you know again that backseat is if you find yourself in

the backseat of a chevy blazer ev and it's you know you maybe had an interesting night um if

it's a police car but there's plenty of room for that and i think it's a good idea to do that

if you need to call your lawyer or whatever so right well and we just saw there was a story

floating around i don't know whether we actually ended up covering it or not now in hindsight

but uh something out of menlo park you know we're talking silicon valley here

where a police department had independently gone out and purchased teslas to use to see if they

would work for their officers as you know typical like squad cars patrol cars and the answer was

they don't work very well so there's actually there is

some demand out there maybe it's all you know in silicon valley maybe it's not for ev based

law enforcement vehicles so you know chevy obviously all all the domestics have a history

of going after that market so it's smart of them to try even if it's you know if it's something

that's only going to be limited engagement at least they're putting the effort and the

development resources into it now rather than you know just showing up late to the party with

something which is never good all right well let's uh shift gears although evs don't really

have

geared transmissions traditionally uh you were in the s60 uh which i think i actually avoided

driving that because like a tree fell in front of your house so i stayed in another gmev the

hummer 3x for the whole weekend which was cool uh but that meant you got a little more time to

reflect on the s60 and i know one of the first press cars you drove at autoblog was our long

termer which you then got to keep i think for like a month because it happened to be the car

you were in at the very start of covid so

it was more than a month you just had that car for the spring of 2020 so what are your memoirs

of the past and present s60 well i gotta say that the the refresh that the car received after we

had our long-term vehicle did help the biggest complaints i think we had about the s60 were

kind of the lack of like sportiness to it like we did have the option to go for like the pull

star engineered suspension and stuff like that at the time as i recall but we wanted to do the

inscription model because we didn't have the option to go for like the pull star engineered

suspension because we liked the interior design better the crystal shifter and all those kinds of

things and the one that i just drove was an inscription um the one we originally had was in

i forget what the white color was but it was a nice pearl white this one is like a garnety red

very very pretty in fact the finish i would probably pick for the car um i mean and really

like driving it with the updated um infotainment os and all that didn't really feel all that

different just because volvo kind of stuck to their aesthetic with everything and they handled

that transition pretty gracefully the problem is like the infotainment

itself wasn't super spectacular to begin with that i wouldn't necessarily think any of us would

call it super spectacular now so consistency sure but maybe not so much marks for improvement

um but in any case like most of the stuff about the car like the refinement of the powertrain

which we had some issues with it is the plug-in hybrid and for a long time it was really kind of

noticeable when the ice kicked in over the electric motors especially at low speeds

the engine was pretty coarse uh they've improved that quite a bit the engine is still noisy

you do hear it when it comes on but it's not quite as violent as it used to be unless you're

really demanding a lot of power from it when the state of charge is low because it seems to kind

of delay kicking in the electric motors a little bit when you really floor the pedal in that

situation so it's still not a hundred percent there but it's pretty good and there's some other

little like issues with the car where it's kind of feeling a little long in the tooth like the

little cell phone holder is no longer big enough to fit my cell phone and i still use a very low

profile case in fact right now i don't even have a screen cover on it

so and it's a you know a big samsung galaxy the the only ones the really expensive ones that were

actually available during all the shortages a couple years ago so literally the best phone i

could have bought not by choice but it's what was available and i can't fit in any of the cubbies

best x60 so my old phones fit perfectly and my work iphone still just fits in the cubby but the

larger phones no longer do and i mean the s60 is being discontinued so we're not going to see

any improvements to any of this stuff this is all just kind of like you know

final

notes sayonara but it was a great little car and i i really enjoyed driving it again having a chance

to to actually get behind the wheel one last time was kind of a nice little you know way to kind of

put a bookend on the s60 for this generation like having the long-termer and then getting to see it

one last time here before it's completely out of production was pretty nice so a good little car

still does all the things we liked about it really well and it still has pretty much the same flaws

that we left it with yeah i i've always liked the s60

i think it um it's an interesting design play i think it's you know it fits somewhere um in a

different space than some of you know the germans and obviously american premium cars and you know

all the other uh you know automakers out there and i i've liked that the interiors have that you

know understated sort of elegance did yours have the orifers crystal shifter it did awesome the

you can't get one without it right right and then the um the uh

the canvas interior the wool interior too which looks really sharp it was you know like the like

like a light like a like a dock shoe blue it was just very very subtle on the inside and it really

worked against the red on the exterior very cool very cool okay sounds good do you think um if you

were in the market in the segment where would you put this one i enjoy driving this car day-to-day

more than like that uh the three series plug-in that we had um

it feels a little less off and on than the bmw did the bmw had even more pronounced a kind of a

a power-on power-off situation when you were adding ice to ev or and vice versa kind of

depending on what situation you were encountering um i don't know that there's really anything else

in the segment that would interest me as much as either of those i mean there's there's just not

much out there in terms of like plug-in sedans yeah and like with this one going away i mean

it's pretty much you know the segment's kind of dry and it's kind of like you know it's kind of

drying up in a way although i think we're going to see a revival of it here in the coming years

with you know evs kind of looking like more of a long game and plug-in kind of maybe having a bit

of a moment here so you know we could see this segment expand more i think like genesis could

have some fun here if they wanted to if they decide to actually you know play around with

plug-ins and this in in their luxury space i mean hyundai's got plug-ins galore so no reason why

genesis can't do the same so you know there's there's opportunity here but i think volvo did

it really well and i mean

price point for that car never really got scary even with with the covid price hikes and everything

so it really kind of goes out in a pretty sweet spot yeah i when i think of things that you could

cross shop this with uh our long-term uh three series that we you know let go i guess it's been

a year ago kind of comes to mind um but there is again to your point not a lot of options in there

so um i also think if you don't happen to be at a you know a volvo dealer uh before this thing

hits the end of its run i think it's a solid used car too to be honest you know if you want to

you're thinking electric but you want to do hybrid you're like okay maybe we'll do plug-in

uh and you like volvos it's it's definitely a nice sort of gateway uh vehicle for that and

you know volvos are okay with their residuals i don't think you'll get sick of driving it i've

generally liked the s60 even at prior car magazine stops we've had long-term s60s it seems to be the

thing that everybody likes to do

and you know even like the regular ice versions uh people like them yeah yeah especially if you're

you know a little concerned about the longevity of the plug-in version given that it essentially

only got one generation you know there's not a lot of data out there to show how well it's

going to do long term the the turbo models to your point are a perfect compromise and i mean

you're losing a lot of weight i mean the the the plug-in weighs four thousand some odd pounds it's

not a light car so you know losing the battery and the electric motors

saves you some weight be a little more nimble you'll you know you you don't get the plug-in

benefits and you don't get the you know the ev drive mode that you get from that but i mean it's

a great little car handles reasonably it's not a you know it's not going to beat a three series

around a racetrack or anything like that but it's pretty competent for what it is you'll enjoy

driving it if that's what you want to do but you know it's a for the most part just a very practical

luxury car that just hits all the stylistic notes all right so tell me about this volkswagen gli you

were in and i was in very briefly i went and got thai food with it and that's all i did yeah that

was uh we the the volkswagen was delivered to us with an issue and unfortunately it made it

difficult for us to enjoy it but not volkswagen's fault was the car itself um so a couple things i

will note that the the transmission that the shifter feel in that car was not amazing and

a letdown even compared to the gti which was already kind of like falling behind a bit the

last time i drove one um but it just felt like it was overly notchy when you didn't want it to be

but didn't really have any heft to it which was kind of like a weird obnoxious combination of like

it doesn't feel very substantial but it always feels like you have to slam it home to get it to

go anywhere um the interior like the the hybrid of the updated infotainment but the not full like

interior overhaul works fine i suppose my biggest complaint was probably trying to get a good

seating position

and in a

manual transmission that matters a lot because you want to get your you know your clutch throw

and everything right and getting that right in that car was a little trickier than i'd remembered

with previous volkswagons volkswagen and seating position are two things that kind of always felt

synonymous to me like i never felt like if if anything else was wrong with a with a sporty

volkswagen i knew i'd be able to find a nice low slung place to sit my butt and i just couldn't

quite get that right in the gli so i don't know i'm i'm i don't i didn't have that same

problem

totally

problem with the car the last time we drove it and they i don't think they've changed anything

about the way the seat mounts to the car or the shape or the adjustability of the seat itself so

i'm not sure why it was suddenly such a big problem for me uh but it was so a brief time in

that unfortunately just you know that's life and the timing of everything we've been dealing with

this summer but um one we'd certainly love to be able to revisit down the road sans the issues we

Yeah. I, I mean, I literally went to Saitai, which is not far from, you know, where I need to go.

And I saw that like at least twice, uh, just the clutch feel was so, I don't know. It sure

seemed like somebody, I don't know what you think. I don't know if somebody had a good track day with

this thing or what they did, but it was, that clutch was pretty in bad shape. Uh, yeah, I got

the impression that someone had maybe already had to replace it or that in the, the course of

inspecting it for delivery at the dealership did not realize that adjustments had not been

set at stops and it just seemed to be coming out of adjustments. We're talking like clutch throw

and engagement here, which can get dicey at a manual transmission car. So, you know, if it

kind of feels like your, your engagement point is wandering on you, that's no fun. So it was

an exciting day and a half with that car. And now the interesting thing here too, is you have so

many choices in this segment, you know, I mean, so this is the, the Jetta GLI to be clear, you

know, the Jetta GLI is a, is a, is a, is a, is a, is a, is a, is a, is a, is a, is a, is a, is a,

you know, you could basically for very similar money, uh, still look at like a golf GTI or

something. Uh, Hyundai's got things for you. And if you want to spend more money, uh, you know,

you can step all the way up to like the type R or something, or, you know, even, I think I'd

probably go with, tell me if I'm crazy, a Honda Civic SI over this. Um, it even just go totally

different segment to, you know, look at a charger or look at a Mustang. And I think there's other

ways to have your fun. Um,

Clutch aside, I, I did like the aesthetics of the car. It was decent looking car, a nice interior.

They had some kind of nice design cues. Um, well, you know, just throughout it was an overall good

execution. Uh, but that's like the second thing we've talked about on the podcast where there was

like a sort of fundamental, like functionality issue, which is weird. We don't see that in

press cars very much, do we? Yeah. And honestly, like just thinking about this car and then the,

the long-term WRX that we have, like they're, you know, that's, that's a

pretty good. I feel like there's a lot of enthusiasts who would be looking at the two

and like, do I really need all wheel drive? Do I, you know, really care about the extra fuel

economy? I might get with the GLI from day to day. And I think it really actually comes down

more to, can you get your head around one interior or the other more than anything else?

I mean, if, if all wheel drive is a necessity for you, then the Subaru is, is your choice

and it's good enough in every other way that I would not discourage people from getting it

if all wheel drive is that important. But if you look at it like as just two

somewhat practical sports sedans, the interior, I think is really what's going to sell both.

And I think like, it's, it's kind of a toss-up where you have Volkswagen, like not quite nailing

this whole, what's going to be digital and what's going to be analog thing versus Subaru, which has

pretty much stuck with analog for the most part, but the infotainment is just meh. It's fine,

but it's, I mean, if you can use your smartphone, you should, you know, is pretty much where I land

on that. So it's an, it's an interesting kind of spot and Subaru is generally going to be cheaper

trip for trim. I'm pretty sure.

Unless something has changed drastically in the last couple of years. I don't believe it has.

So, you know, interestingly, you know, Volkswagen was among the, I mean, pioneers is maybe a little

heady, but early adopters for making their vehicles hit Apple car play and Android auto.

I remember a tech of the year back in 2014, a very cold October morning, I was shooting a video with

our senior producer, Chris McGraw. And we were like in this in 2014 is like, you know,

10 years ago,

Star Wars.

I was playing it up, but we're sitting there with like, he's got the camera on. I'm like

messing around with my phone and trying to get it to work. So, you know, Volkswagen kind of has

taken that, you know, path though. You know, they were always like, I think to a certain extent,

they're like use Android auto or use your phone or Apple car play. I feel like that's kind of

their ethos. So, all right. So there we go. Let's shift over to the news section. The whole,

will they, won't they, is it going to happen? Will it,

will it not? The Hyundai Vision N74. I saw some people basically say it's a go. It stopped me if

you've heard this before. Hyundai at times has then taken the sort of unusual step to deny it,

but then you'll see like another corporate person in a different part of the world will confirm it,

which I think speaks to the global nature of, you know, Hyundai's business. But right now,

looks like it's a go. It showed up in a presentation of future,

you could read our story from Jonathan Ramsey. It's on the site. And it's, it's in there. Part

of launching 21 models by 2030. There it is right in there with the Genesis Magma. So, I mean,

there's some other cool stuff in here too, like the affordable EV, the, there's some things in

this presentation that I want to, you know, look into a little more, a little more closely. But

hey, the 74, it's a throwback. It's, you know, this like,

sporty thing. It's takes cues from like a Giorgetto Giugiaro concept from back in the day.

I wrote a column on this saying, hell yeah, they got to do it. But ditch the, the fuel cell side of

it. Still not totally clear on all of the details, but if this is true, I think they should do it. I

a hundred percent agree. I mean, what do you think? I'm with you. And honestly, like here's,

here's a good opportunity to do something exciting with the plugin. Like you throw away the whole,

the fuel cell side of it. And then you throw away the fuel cell side of it. And then you throw away

just kind of like a weird plugin of its own sort. And you do this and like, you know, we've already

seen talk of like range extended electric vehicles from that side of the shop too. So there's the

potential for like lots of different tech they can do with this. So you look at this car, it's on

this massive platform. That's already been designed to carry a large battery. So you can take a lot of

that battery space away, save some weight, throw in a small ice engine to do your supplementary

work. And you've got a, you've got a, you've got a, you've got a, you've got a, you've got a

flagship plugin that looks like that. That's pretty freaking cool. And I think that's a,

that's a good place to go with plugin technology. If you actually want to make something out of it,

especially since it's something that's going to be big and heavy anyway, it might as well be big

and heavy and something you can sell to people because if it's just big and heavy, that doesn't

get you anywhere. So yeah, that's much. Yeah. I think, you know, for me, this is just,

it's all going to be about the design. I think it's gotta be, you know, you look at some of the

other sports cars and other muscle cars, the engine is always important. And I think,

you know, going back to like Camaros and Corvettes and Mustangs, which nominally this

could compete with, but it is something different, but anything in the sporting segment, I do think

it's, it's relevant. And there is a little bit of like sort of pony lineage, you know, when you

look at some of, you know, Hyundai's history. But to me, the design is what's going to get people

just, you know, their minds, you know, totally, you know, get just totally mind blowing here. So

I,

this is a good call. I really do. I think, you know, Hyundai's always trying to get, I think

itself at the forefront of conversations like this and leave them. I think they're very good

at entering a segment and doing it very well, you know, not just the sports car segment, but I mean,

like, look at the Palisade, you know, things like that. The soon to come electric version of that,

even like going back to the Sonata, you know, it took them about a decade or so to get it,

you know, to a more place of prestige. But when they did, it won all kinds of car of the year

awards and people really liked it. So I think this is a great thing for enthusiasts everywhere.

Yeah. And I mean, they've got this, this great throwback shape and you can do all sorts of like

weird DeLorean adjacent things with it. You know, like if this thing makes crazy weird noises and

has like steam popping out of it and stuff like that, people are going to go nuts. And that's

exactly kind of the thing you like, you need from a car like this, like this should be full on

nostalgia. It should be,

silly and stupid and like make it a Hyundai Hellcat, like just make the thing fly. I mean,

not literally fly, not full back to the future, but like, you know, just make it fast, make it

stinking fast in a straight line. And then nobody will care how, how heavy it is to get, you know,

kill two birds. Well, I mean, the same guy designed the DeLorean as well. That was also a

Jujaro, you know, car. So, you know, Hyundai, it's interesting because a lot of times they,

they obviously don't have as long a history as say Ford or,

or Mercedes, but I think it is cool that they can at least go back to 1974 and dust off a concept

and say, Hey, look at this, you know? I mean, cause I mean, frankly, there's not all that many people

that remember, you know, the model T at this point, you know, even though it's certainly

ubiquitous and everyone knows what it is, but I mean, you go back to the seventies and that's

still a pretty long time ago. And, but you also have that idea that's still a little more,

I think at the front of people's brains to say, Hey, okay, this is cool.

That's even how I was sort of associating with the design of the prologue as it was more like

an eighties sort of vibe, but also design is subjective and maybe you see what you want to

see at times, but that's okay. I mean, I guess since we're talking about the seventies and

eighties, it's a good time to talk about Scout. You, you actually went on a, I think the first

and only Scout press trip. We've got a reveal date coming up where they're gonna, you know,

show their two new vehicles. They're still way out.

Uh, as far as production, like the year after, but it's circle your calendars, October 24th.

I'm going to be seeing what Scout's doing on that day. So I don't, I don't really know exactly where

I'll be, but I will definitely try to check out these new vehicles. To me, this has a little bit

of a, um, I'd almost put it up there with the excitement of like Rivian's sort of surprise

and delight reveals from, I think that was February or March. So, uh, you know, again,

this could be a sort of competing.

I mean, I'm excited to see what these things look like. It speaking of exactly what you just

said, retro throwback, get people fired up. I think that's, I think that's what this is going

to be. And I think, I mean, so, you know, we just, it wasn't that long ago that on the podcast,

we were talking about Rivian and Volkswagen, their tie up. And so, you know, Volkswagen's

into Rivian because they want software. And most we're talking like the fundamental software that's

making their EVs work, Rivian's EV.

In this case. So we've got Rivian being invested in by Volkswagen. Scout is an offshoot of

Volkswagen. Scout is doing this thing theoretically kind of on their own. They're treating it as like

its own entity. It operates kind of the way Porsche does versus the rest of the Volkswagen

group where it's essentially its own entity that does its own thing. Obviously financially it's

tied to Volkswagen, but it operates sort of as its own business unit. And the tie-in with Rivian,

feels so bang on for these two, because we heard that like this started even before I went on that

trip to South Carolina earlier this year. They've been in talks since January. I think we're going

to see not just our first look at what Scout's going to offer, but we're going to see the first

hints of what Rivian's bringing to the table beyond just software. Because I mean, that's what

the deal was ostensibly about. They came out and said, yeah, it's about the software. We want that.

We're going to continue to build our own vehicles independently of each other, blah, blah, blah. There's

no plan to intertwine anything beyond the software business. And I think that's politely crap. I think

we're going to see a much stronger tie-in between these two based on necessity. Because at this

point with the EV landscape looking the way it does right now, Scout is either going to have to

either wildly over-deliver and come in cheaper than expected to really gain traction, or they're

going to have to scale or find ways to do things that are EV. And they're not really

in a position to be able to do that. They're not going to be able to do that. They're going to be

in a position to do either of those on their own beyond the amount. I mean, Volkswagen's got tons

of cash, sure. But if you look at what's happening in Germany right now, Volkswagen's manufacturing

situation is not amazing. And they're probably not going to want to just throw money at this

little US experiment that's happening with Scout, unless they can actually see the ROI.

So I think that by the end of the year, whether we find this out in October or we find it out a

little farther down the line, that either there's going to be some mechanical tech sharing between

the two of them, or we're going to see something else from Scout leaking in from Volkswagen Group,

some sort of plug-in, something that is electrified, but not pure electric.

Because as we stretch on and we were kind of told we were going to see these things in the summer,

it's now turning to fall. So it's not strictly delayed. I don't think they promised we'd see

them literally in the summer, but we were told, you know, you'll see it in the summer. So we're,

we're reaching into that territory. I was like, okay, like, why didn't we see it when they hinted

at why, you know, what's going on with it? There's going to be more to this announcement, I think,

than just here's our truck and here's our SUV. So that's my kind of long way around to saying,

like, I feel like this Rivian thing is bigger than Volkswagen's letting on than Scout is letting on.

And like, it's really worth looking at from an enthusiast perspective, because like, we're

looking at kind of like the future of enthusiast off-roading brand in the US, because Jeep is in a

mess right now. Recon has been announced, but not launched. And it's supposed to be on sale next

year. And meanwhile, like their entire US executive team retired. So they've replaced them with new

people who are now kind of in charge of carrying this new electric torch. And we haven't really

heard or seen a whole lot from them. Obviously we were individually not invited to Easter Jeep

Safari this year, which is traditionally when those kinds of things would have been discussed,

but then not much came out of Easter Jeep Safari to begin with. So it really kind of feels like

there's a lot of dead air coming out of Stellantis coming out.

And so what, you know, someone's going to step up and fill that void and Scout Rivian's in a great

spot to do it. Ford seems to, I'm not going to say they've dropped the ball on doing a hybrid

Bronco because they never really promised to do one to begin with, but they've been dealing with

so many issues with getting pro donkos or get pro donko Bronco production scaled up that they

haven't really had a time to like go and do anything experimental with it. So this is a weird,

kind of like potential inflection point for the whole four by four landscape. And I feel like

Scout is maybe in the best position of anybody to take advantage of it. Let's see what happens.

You know, that's a bold statement for a company that hasn't actually even built anything,

uh, that they're in a better spot than say Jeep. But, um, I see what you're saying. I, I, I can sort

of see the through line there, uh, to build on what you're saying, Jeep is in a weird position.

Um, you know, I do.

Doing a five thoughts on the gladiator, which we've talked to him, put a couple times on the

podcast, but gladiator sales are down. Wrangler sales are down. Uh, Jeep is having kind of a

weird year. Um, a colleague and friend, Mark Phelan at the free press, he's their auto columnist had

a really nice piece this weekend. Uh, he has usually like a Saturday auto column, uh, talking

about like, what is going on with Jeep? You know, some of the sales struggles, uh, the changes in

leadership, the fact that they basically killed off.

Okay.

A lot of their volume models at the lower end of the, uh, the lineup. And then to your point,

where is the recon, you know, things are not getting here as quickly as they could. And,

you know, to me, this is almost like, you know, sleeping giant. It's like when I pick, pick your

analogy, like, uh, you know, dynastic sports team is always good. And then all of a sudden somebody

else gets better and you can see their complacency maybe. Um, yeah. So that to me is kind.

Of what's happening. And then, you know, I just, I'm literally in the land cruiser, which we'll talk

about that probably on a future show. Um, I can't wait to get in the forerunner. I think that's

going to be cool. You know, the Lexus GX I'm all about, you know, if, you know, the opportunity

presented itself considering a Rivian or a scout, either one of those, uh, as well as like the used

market, you know, used forerunner, that's a great daily, um, things like that. Maybe not a great

daily, but a fun day. Um, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then,

so, I mean, to your point, this is as tough as it's ever been in the off-roader segment and Jeep,

they were just on top for so long with very little true competition, just given the,

I think the, you know, disparate nature of their audience versus perhaps like Toyota and

the Mercedes G class and all that stuff. So Ford comes in though, with the Bronco

and the Bronco sport, which is, you know, as you could read Zach's story on the Sasquatch, um,

that's better than ever. And then you got all these new entries coming in. So Jeep cannot chill

out, uh, as they appear to have been doing. And, you know, I, I drove the gladiator again. I loved

it. Fuel economy is not great, man. Um, it's still pretty expensive, you know, like Wranglers

are cheaper on the used market, but you got to take a ton of miles. It, you start to ask yourself,

why do I really want to do this? You know?

Um,

And there's other options for you new and used. So.

Yeah, 100%. And you look at it, like, obviously, you know, as a Jeep owner, like the ownership

experience with, uh, with those cars is really dependent on how much money you're spending,

which is, it seems like a very basic thing to say, right. But it's actually, it's kind of almost

inverse. Like the more you spend on them, the more you're going to be spending to maintain them. And

you're, you're, you're kind of like lost in this sort of like never ending exponential growth of

investment into your hobby. And it's, it's one of those things that you,

you either live with it as, as a hobbyist or you just move on from it. And I think Jeep has a lot

of churn in, in that sense that a lot of people buy Jeeps because they like the idea of driving

a Jeep. They not may not necessarily stick with a Wrangler after their first experience, just

because you learn that we've progressed a lot since the 1940s in terms of ride quality and

those things. And, you know, if, if you're comfortable being tossed around as a matter of

course, then sure, you'll, you'll enjoy a Wrangler for the rest of your life. But at some point you

start to value your kidneys and you think to yourself, Hey, maybe I should drive a normal

civilized vehicle. And then of course you can look at a grand Cherokee, which is as civilized as they

get. In fact, one of my favorite driving SUVs out there, but at the same time, you know, you're,

you're staying in the same quality vertical, if you will. Yeah. And the durability vertical. So

you're, you're, you know, you can only escape so far if you stay within the brand. But there's,

it's certainly an opportunity out there now, because I mean, it's, if Scout, you know,

wants to stay premium, that's fine. They can probably afford to do that.

If they think they can find buyers, but it's a weird kind of thing, like to expect both

like the nostalgia folks and the EV folks to converge on a singular brand without some sort

of other kind of hook. So it's, it's a narrow kind of lane they're already traversing. And

I think, you know, in a way, like the, the kind of unity between Scout and Rivian is the,

is the beautiful dichotomy of Scout being the off-road brand and Rivian being the on-road

brand that can off-road, you know? So like Scout is the hobby brand that you can take to work and,

and Rivian is the take to work that you can occasionally dab in a hobby. So it's,

they're kind of two sides of the same equation. If you, if you think about it,

they can balance each other out really nicely. And also, you know, like they both kind of go

at the same sort of like body on frame off-road mission, even if Rivian's body and frame is a

little different from the way we would traditionally define them. Scout has only

said they want to do body on frame. They didn't necessarily say it would be traditional body on

frame. So, you know, it doesn't have to be K5 style. It could be a little more Rivian style.

We don't really know, but it's just, it's interesting and a place where everyone can

kind of afford to, to, to play because it's such a popular thing. Like everybody wants rugged,

everybody wants big, and they're both in a position to deliver that. So why fight when

you can cooperate? Yeah. And don't forget, they really needed each other too. Rivian needed

Volkswagen's money and Volkswagen needed Rivian's, you know, electronic software architecture

expertise. So,

yeah, it's, it's going to be very interesting. And I think it does sort of depend for the

consumer. I really encourage people who are looking at these things. You got to test drive

them. You know, I mean, it's, it's a cliche, but I remember, you know, to your point about

Jeeps, you know, on road demeanor, I, you know, I, Jeeps, I always think Jeeps are cool. I did

one of an earlier press trip I did was on the Rubicon with the Wrangler. It was like a mid

cycle refresh launch. And I remember my dad who was in the army, like back in,

like,

I think the sixties and actually drove Jeeps. And he's like, are you to your mind? You don't

want to drive a Jeep. And, you know, it's funny. I can kind of see what he was saying. You know,

it's not a comfortable experience by any measure. So, you know, you kind of got to know what you're

signing up for in the off-roader and that's where, you know, maybe a Grand Cherokee might

even be more your, your vibe. And it'll be interesting to see if Scout, Rivian, et cetera,

go into like the,

the Grand Cherokee segment.

Yeah. Well, and, and to your point too, about like what you're comfortable driving is, you know,

you talk to a lot of race car drivers. Most of them don't get out of a race car and into a 911

GT3 RS to drive home. They, they might get into something, some sort of fancy supercar,

but it's probably going to be something with an adaptive suspension because they're sick of having

their spines compressed over every single curb on a racetrack all day. They want to get into a range

Rover or something like that to drive home. You see that with athletes too. They want something

big and comfortable. They can spread out.

And, and just relax. And, and so like, you know, the fact that you can punish yourself all the

time doesn't mean you should. And, you know, that's as a, you know, as a Jeep owner and the

owner of a slam sports car, I, I mean, I, I, I get it. Trust me. It's fun. But the older you get,

the shorter the doses, because otherwise you feel it for too long.

I was on a test track with Sebastian Vettel. I will do a name check here. This was about

11 years ago. It was an infinity drive.

And they were showing off their like steer by wire and some other tech. And it was cool. He was

really ringing the car out around this. I think it was an old NASCAR track in like Kentucky. I think

it was like, they made us drive up there from the Nissan base in Tennessee. And then we went to the

race in Austin a week later or days later. It was awesome. But Vettel, I remember even said,

I said, well, what do you drive? What do you think? What do you think of this? You know,

like, cause what else do you ask Sebastian Vettel when you're sitting next to him?

And he's like, nah, man, I like to put it in comfort mode and cruise. He's like,

I get all my speed. That's my job. He's like, people think I want to drive like a maniac.

That's not true. It's like, I just want to like, you know, something comfortable and I want to

just drive the car. And I remember thinking, yeah, that's funny. There's a lot of auto

journalists that probably don't approach their daily driving or other, you know, just commuters

that way, but maybe we should drive more like Vettel in his daily life. So.

All right. Well, speaking of infinity, we'll jump over to Nissan real quick. There's a new

Armada, uh, Joel Stocksdale, our news editor saw this. Uh, it's, you know, fairly, I think,

credible redesign. Uh, if you look at it, um, gets, uh, uh, it definitely looks, I think,

sleeker in some ways. It's, uh, one of the more kind of almost bougie Armadas that I could have

seen in a while. Uh, some new trims, you get the pro four X, which is cool. Uh, it's, I guess,

if you really want to go off roading with a vehicle, the size of, uh, you know, I don't know,

a small tank or something. Um, but you know, again, I feel like we say this all the time in

our, in the podcast and it's almost like a trope. Yeah. This Nissan fill on the blank vehicle. It

really was old and it needed a refresh and they did it and it's a little bit better.

Uh, and they added this cool trim, you know, sometimes it's like a rock Creek or something

for the path finder. Um, and it's a little bit better. It's more competitive. So.

You know, I think, uh, I think that kind of sums it up here. What do you think?

I like it. Honestly, I'm not super thrilled about the grill designs. They all, they're all

quite large. And I mean, that's, that is the trend these days and I'm not super, super sold

on it, but I actually really love the rest of the design, both inside and out. I think it looks

really good. Um, I, and I just drove the QX 80, which is, you know, mechanically related,

but not the same vehicle. And I think, uh, the Armada treatment,

it's going to suit the platform a little bit better. I'm, I'm not entirely, uh, bought in

on infinity's six figure mission for the QX. And I feel like the Nissan will hit the sweet spot a

little bit better because I mean, you're still not getting the V8. It is what it is, but it just,

it feels like, like the perfect balance between like old school SUV and, and kind of a premium

feel. And I I've, I towed with an outgoing Armada just a few years ago. And it really liked,

actually towed my Miata from Cleveland,

to Detroit when I moved here with the, with an Armada. And that was a flawless experience. I was,

I was thrilled with how well that thing handled it. Obviously a Miata is not a very taxing thing

to tow, but still it was, uh, it was a very nice experience. I I've, I've always liked this car.

I've always liked the looks of it. And I feel like they they've, they've kind of continued on

with this. So it looks good to me. All right. Let's spend some money here. A friend of auto

blog, uh, is looking for a daily driver, looking to spend maybe 20 to $30,000, something like that.

And, uh, you know, it was looking at a Gladiator,

maybe, uh, you know, new or used, but regardless, you're going to be spending 40 to 50 grand on that

without even breaking a sweat. It seems like, uh, Wrangler maybe, but there's a lot of miles on

those, uh, at least in this price range. So another approach could be, um, some sort of

used BMW. Uh, the thought could be, uh, an older BMW three series wagon. And by older, uh, those

go back a few years. I forget what the actual cutoff.

For that last generation was, but those are out there. They do have some miles or just, uh, you

know, more recent X three, which are a little more ubiquitous, a little more actually cost-friendly

because it seems like people just, they're crossovers. It's not like people, I guess,

all the auto journalists are buying the three series wagons. Uh, but what would you do in this

segment? And, you know, you see any good ones out there. Uh, I mean, for me, the wagon is very

appealing, especially like the, the smaller, the wagon, the more I like it. It's kind of weird.

Like I, like the RS six is a really cool Audi, but I don't see myself ever actually wanting to

deal with driving one, but if they had an RS four here or an RS three, like that's my, that's my

speed, like RS three love that. But again, we're getting kind of away from a wagon and into a

hatch at that point. So like, for me, like the sweet spot would, would be to go small. So the,

the three series wagon, you can get like, I think it was the three 28 eyes back in the E 90

generation. You could get those with a manual. Um, I mean, we were going to only the base engine,

but still not a bad engine, just, you know, not exciting by today's standards,

but better than getting an auto in some cases. Um, although that said, they did have very good

automatic transmission. I don't think BMW has ever really made a bad automatic in a three series.

So you really can't go wrong either way there. Um, and I mean, with the X three, you certainly

get something that's more everyday practical, like as a sedan and sports car driver, I do sometimes

get sick of the fact that I could never see more than one car in front of me. And when you're in a

crossover, you have, you know, you've got a lot of, you know, you've got a lot of, you know,

good visibility that you do not get in a, in a low slung vehicle. So that is, I mean,

a real consideration for people, for me, uh, the wagon shape would sell it more than anything else.

You know, some of these, especially if you're willing to take some miles, like here's a decent,

uh, three series, it's an all wheel drive, which is appealing. Uh, it looks like it's just at a

dealership, which is kind of cool, uh, for about 10 grand. Uh, Oh, it has a salvage title. We're

going to X out of that real quick. Um, but you know, there's some wet, you know, wagons,

they tend to get more close to like 20,000 if you want lower miles. Um, and then the X threes,

it's almost like you can get a pretty nice one for, uh, about the same price with a lot more,

uh, with some of the more modern infotainment and, you know, the interiors look a bit nicer.

Um, yeah, we'll see it to your point. It's very appealing to have that like, uh, elevated ride

height and the X three, you know, it's just, you know, you're not in some off-roader, but you

are, you know, it's just a little more natural, especially with, you know, daily driving chores.

So, all right. Well, uh, real quick, uh, cause my computer is about to do an update,

whether I want it to, or not, you have a fall beer recommendation.

Oh, I am. I am a complete basic sucker for Sam Adams, Oktoberfest. I will not apologize for it.

It's just good drinkable, but really anybody's Oktoberfest, any kind of like Amber, any kind

of Mertzen, like that's a good one. I'm not going to apologize for it. I'm not going to

that, that, that hits for me. Like I like, uh, like a slightly maltier take on kind of like a

straight up logger. So, okay. I'll see your, uh, that Oktoberfest and raise you a Frankenmuth

Oktoberfest. Uh, they do good beers. Uh, their old Detroit Amber Ale is another nice kind of

October, November beer, uh, nice kind of garnet colored, uh, beer, uh, really hits right,

especially in a glass. So, um, yeah, those are my recommendations and yours.

Well, Byron, it's been good hanging out with you this week. Uh, if you enjoy the show,

please give us five stars on Apple podcasts, Spotify, wherever you get your podcasts.

We'd love to spend your money. That's podcast at autoblog.com. Shout out to Eric Meyer,

who makes us sound good each and every week. Um, we'll see you later.

Bye.