'Reputation': Why Taylor Swift's Edgiest Album Stands Out Amongst the Rest

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Tell me all about your latest obsession.

Are you a fan?

Got guilty pleasure?

Yeah, your confessions.

What the hype?

Take me from then to then.

What the hype?

Welcome back to.

What the hype?

Where this week, we hope that you're ready for it because we're diving into Taylor Swift's

reputation era and album.

Taylor has been keeping Taylor's version of this album close to the chest for quite some time,

despite the fact that a lot of Swifties keep thinking that the release is just around the

corner.

So we hope that this kind of tides you over until that day comes whenever it does.

And for those of you that are just,

casual Taylor Swift fans, I hope that revisiting the reputation area will kind of help you

understand this album and the lore behind it a little bit more than maybe you did before.

So I'm Pam and I'll be your host today.

And with me today, I have Eric and Andrew.

How are you all doing?

Hello.

Excited to hear everything that you have to share today, Pam.

Yeah, well, it's quite a bit.

But before we do that,

we also want to,

welcome our special guest host.

We also have Meg here,

who some of you might recognize from the MuggleCast Girls Takeover episodes.

Welcome to What the Hype, Meg.

Thanks so much for joining us.

Hi, thank you.

I'm very excited to be here.

And I think you're also sporting a reputation accessory, right?

I am.

Well, it's not specifically reputation,

but I got this in a shop like two years ago and it's like a Python arm cuff.

And I was like, this feels like the proper episode to wear.

Perfect place.

You know, I have my light up stick that I got at the Reputation tour

and I didn't think to have it with me.

Darn.

You know what?

My pet boa constrictor is actually in the living room.

I forgot to bring them over.

Oh, okay.

Lovely.

Well, it's so lovely for you to have brought your boa along.

Close enough.

Yeah.

Well, before we get started,

I did want to ask you all like what percentage of Taylor Swift fan would you say you are?

And how familiar are you with kind of the lore?

That comes along with the Reputation album on the whole?

Knowing how deep the rabbit hole can be traveled.

I feel like it's hard to measure to say,

but the easiest comparison,

like not for the first time is comparing the fandoms between Taylor Swift and Harry Potter.

And I have to admit,

I have a lot of love for Taylor Swift,

but I'm probably the Taylor Swift fandom equivalent of somebody,

somebody that just saw the Harry Potter movies and really liked them

and maybe took friends to see them multiple times,

but did not do the podcast or did not do,

you know,

other things.

So I'm a little bit deeper than surface level.

Like I talk to people who are deep Taylor Swift fans.

So I feel like I know stuff through osmosis,

but that would be my level.

So you're Swifty adjacent.

It's like,

yeah,

but I genuinely like her.

I just think if,

is there a lower limit for,

for being a Swifty?

No,

I mean,

Swifties are pretty generous.

Like if you want to be a Swifty,

we'll open our arms to you.

You know,

I mean,

I have a favorite song,

a favorite album.

Yeah.

I'd say I'm more than a casual fan.

Pam,

probably not quite at your level.

But like,

I,

I know the basic lore of reputation and I know every song on the album.

So,

but I'm excited to learn even more details.

And I would say,

I'm similar to where Eric is at.

And I've always really appreciated,

especially in recent years,

just how passionate the Taylor Swift fandom is trying to decode all the little secrets,

some of which we're going to discuss today.

And I just love how passionate Taylor's fans are and all the bones that she throws fans.

So I just,

I really admire the fandom and I enjoy her music.

I just don't listen to it a lot.

That's fair.

That's totally fair.

Yeah.

And it is to your point about all of the,

the bones or the Easter eggs,

if you will.

It is fun to be a Taylor Swift fan.

If you like it,

you know,

you can get into it as much or as little as you want to,

but decoding is certainly part of that.

And hopefully we decode a few things for you all today as well,

just to get everybody caught up here before we actually hopped on to record this episode.

I asked everybody that was joining me to do a couple of things.

The first was to listen to Taylor's reputation album.

Just the original version.

Cause like I said,

we don't have Taylor's version yet.

And I wanted everybody to pay attention to the use of 808s.

And that is for anybody that doesn't know 808s are,

it's a drum kit that was created in like the eighties.

I think if I remember correctly.

So an 808 specifically,

the reason that this comes up a lot is because of the drum kick noise.

And in popular music,

you hear that a lot in hip hop and it doesn't,

actually sounds like a drum kick.

What happens is they kind of extend the sound because the drum kick already kind

of has like this bassy deeper undertone and then they add distortion to it.

So it actually ends up sounding a lot more like a bass and you hear it a lot in

EDM as well.

So that features heavily on Taylor Swift's reputation album.

And there's a couple of different reasons for that,

which we'll probably get into as the discussion goes along,

but I wanted you all to pay attention to that as you were listening,

perhaps,

a little bit more,

you know,

in a dedicated fashion for the first time,

because I just think that it kind of helps put a lot of the,

the stuff into scope here.

And then I can't unhear it now that you've pointed that out.

Right.

And we'll link maybe to the video that I sent you all just so that you could

kind of get a sense for like what you were listening to.

It's very apparent when you kind of hone in on that.

And then I also asked you all to watch the look,

what you made me do music video and a little quick,

like slightly longer video that,

points out some of the Easter eggs,

just so you can get a feel for how much she really packs in for fans.

So that's everybody's homework.

That was everybody's homework.

And like I said,

we'll try and link to some of this stuff as well in the show notes.

If you guys want to take a deeper dive along with us.

Yes,

miss Pam.

In order to really understand Taylor Swift's reputation album,

I think it's important to kind of get a sense for the series of events that

kind of led up to her making this album.

And so as a result of that,

for our four one,

one breakdown,

I've put together a very brief timeline into the reputation era for all of you.

And in order to make this a little bit more fun for Andrew,

Eric and Meg,

and also anybody who happens to hang out with us over on our YouTube channel,

please subscribe by the way,

that really helps us out.

I've also put together a PowerPoint presentation to kind of help move this

along.

So that that'll be a fun visual.

If you guys want it.

Oh no,

you really are a teacher.

The video,

the video version of this podcast,

but it will not hinder your ability to like,

listen to just the audio.

If you don't want to go watch the video version.

All right,

well,

here we go.

Let's dive into Taylor Swift's reputation era,

a brief timeline.

Like I said,

it would take way longer than we have if I were to cover everything,

but these are like the big points that I want you all to take in here.

So in order to really get started,

we got to time travel all the way back to the year 2009.

And specifically to,

to September 13th,

this is the fated day when Kanye crashes Taylor's acceptance speech for the

best female music video at the MTV VMAs.

And it's a day that kind of lives on in infamy.

I feel like we all probably remember this happening because we were the

target demo for the VMAs in 2009 when all of this went down.

Yeah.

And I think it's fair to say that this moment is one of the biggest pop

culture moments of our lifetimes for shock value.

And I still remember at the time,

and in the weeks that followed everybody being like,

oh my gosh,

I can't believe Kanye basically ruins poor little Taylor Swift's very important

moment in the spotlight.

It was just so out of left field.

And at this time she hadn't,

she,

she wasn't who she was today.

So it really did feel like an attack on Taylor.

Yeah.

You belong with me.

It was her first crossover hit.

So you're right.

She wasn't like Taylor Swift,

the mag,

the,

the crazy big pop star she is today.

She was really just getting started and yeah.

And the fact that he was doing it like on Beyonce's behalf,

who really didn't ask him to do that.

And like,

so when I think of this moment,

I think of them going to Beyonce in the crowd with like this shocked look on

her face saying like,

Kanye,

what are you doing?

Yeah.

And one thing I do want to point out here,

since you brought up Beyonce,

she's such a class act as we we've always known her to be.

She actually gave up her,

her acceptance speech time later towards the end of this VMAs in particular.

So the Taylor could have her moment to give her acceptance speech.

So yeah.

But you know,

these people were forever linked from this moment on because people's

memories are long and pop culture history spans even longer than that.

One thing that I had forgotten actually was that Kanye's PR team really

kind of went on the defensive right away after this happened.

And because the next day he was actually on the tonight show with Jay Leno and he

actually apologized on national television because the backlash to what he did

was forgive the pun,

very swift from quite a lot of people,

including president Obama called him a jackass.

Y'all remember that?

That's right.

Wow.

Yeah.

But it doesn't really seem like they really squared away their beef because a

few days after his tonight show appearance,

Taylor was actually on the view and she revealed that Kanye,

he had yet to reach out to apologize personally,

which would have been a nice touch.

So it really kind of seems like it was more for good PR for him to kind of

try and smooth that over.

So after this,

we got to jump over to 2015 because this is where things get interesting.

We're back at a major award show this time at the Grammys on February 8th

and Taylor and Kanye photographed looking really friendly.

There's also photographs with Taylor,

Kanye and Kim Kardashian,

who he was married to at the time and also Taylor,

Kanye,

Kim and Jay-Z and Jay-Z in particular is important to point out because in an

interview with the vanity fair later on in 2015 in August,

Taylor actually reveals that it was actually her friend Jay-Z who encouraged

her and Kanye to bury the hatchet.

So it's just interesting that it took all the,

all these years,

but then also there was like a third party mediator that was really trying to

smooth things over.

There for the greater good.

It's just such a profoundly shitty thing for Kanye to have done with very

questionable intent and no positive results.

I don't think you do recover from part of you.

I think from that sort of just very selfish and,

and,

and hurtful act.

I think we see the ramifications of that in her music for many years to

come.

And I'm glad you brought that up because it's not for us to,

to tell anybody when they should get over an event they deem to be

traumatic.

And she talks about that a lot in her Netflix documentary,

Miss Americana,

where she says that at the time she didn't realize that they,

that the audience was booing Kanye.

They thought they were booing her.

She thought they were booing her because they agreed with him and to be so

young and to be stood in front of a room full of peers,

people you look up to.

She was a fan of Kanye at the time as well and think that everybody hates you

because you beat out,

Beyonce.

I mean,

I would also probably feel pretty shitty about that too,

you know?

So moving right along here,

we're still in 2015,

but we're towards the end of the year.

And I wanted to highlight the fact that right around Christmas,

Taylor hits 60 million followers on Instagram.

Funnily,

she actually surpasses Kim Kardashian as the most followed person on this

app.

And she does this because she's been receiving a major fame boost due to the

popularity of 1980,

which had come out the year prior in October.

And also she's on this massive 1989 world tour.

She is quite literally everywhere and she is inescapable.

I don't know if y'all remember 2015,

2014,

but it really like Taylor was,

she was the egg girl,

you know,

she and the squad and blank space was just on the radio nonstop.

I mean that I was just hearing Starbucks lovers every,

every moment of the day.

Well,

and that album,

just had like hit single after hit single,

like every two or three months.

So like it really extended much further than 2014,

like into early 2016,

you were still hearing these songs on the radio.

And I'm glad that you brought up the girl squads because the 1989 era was

not only the era of girls squads,

but also the era of pop walks.

So she was definitely wanting to be seen at these really trendy restaurants

where,

you know,

a lot of celebrities would go to,

to get photographed.

Obviously,

you know,

she had some very famous friends at the time,

some of which have fallen off and some of what she's still friends with

today.

And also not to get too gossipy,

but this was also the era of two very public,

very high profile relationships first with Calvin Harris.

And then later on with Tom Hiddleston.

So lots of reasons for Taylor to be in the news,

obviously she has always kind of been in the news for her relationship,

but because her level of fame have had kind of like reached new heights at this

time,

there were just more eyes on her.

And she was also utilizing social media way differently than she does today.

So she was really giving fans an inside look into not only her own life,

but also some of these relationships as well.

And I also wanted you all to keep in mind the overarching theme of overexposure

at,

this time as well,

because this really plays a major role into what happens next as we kind of

descend into what is actually the reputation era.

So in early 2016,

specifically on February 9th,

Kanye plays his now infamous single famous,

and he does so for the first time at his easy fashion show at Madison square

garden.

And after he does that,

he takes to Twitter and maintains that,

Taylor was perfectly okay with the lyric.

I feel like me and Taylor might still have sex.

Why I made that bitch famous.

So that's where all of this starts on the other side of the camp in a

statement with billboard.

Swift's team says that Kanye did not call her for approval of that line,

but actually called to ask Taylor to release his single on her Twitter account

and also double down saying that she declined and cautioned him that releasing

a song with such a high profile,

such a strong misogynistic message was like not the move.

So you already kind of start to see these two butting heads over this,

despite the fact that just a few months ago,

or actually over a year ago now,

because we're back in February,

right?

The last time we caught up with these two was February,

2015.

They seem to have buried the hatchet here.

A few days later is the Grammys.

We're back at the Grammys and Taylor actually uses her acceptance speech for

album of the year to clap back at Kanye for,

for the famous lyric.

She says,

as the first woman to win album of the year,

the Grammys twice,

I want to say to all the young girls out there,

they're going to be people along the way that will try to undercut your

success or take credit for your accomplishments or your fame.

But if you just focus on the work and you don't let those people sidetrack you

someday,

when you get to where you're going,

you're going to look around and you'll know it was you and the people who

love you who put you there.

And that will be the greatest feeling in the world.

Wow.

Yeah.

Really powerful words from Taylor.

And she's actually addressed this idea going forward a few years later and

stuff like that.

But this is kind of the first time she really speaks out on this and really

doubles down on,

on really owning her own hard work ethic and maintaining that she,

you know,

did this on her own,

which is very much true.

So after this,

things kind of settle for a few months until we get to June 17th.

And this is when Kim K's GQ magazine cover comes out.

And in this,

in this interview,

she talks about Taylor's beef with Kanye.

So keep in mind that this is four months after the song's debut,

but this is also the first time she lets slip that there's video proof of

Taylor approving the,

that bitch lyric,

which is a big bombshell to drop in this interview.

Kim says she totally knew that she was,

that that was coming out.

She wanted to all of a sudden act like she didn't.

I don't know why she just,

you know,

flipped all of a sudden.

It was funny,

because on the call with Kanye,

Taylor said,

when I get to the Grammys red carpet,

all the media are going to think that I'm so against this.

And I'll just laugh and say the jokes on you guys.

I was in on it the whole time.

And I'm like,

wait,

but in your Grammy speech,

you completely dissed my husband just to play the victim again.

I have to wonder if like a big part of Kim's involvement is just like what I

have to imagine is the insecurity and like in some sense,

shame of having your husband write the lyric.

I would have,

I would have sex with this other woman.

And I wonder if,

you know,

rather than like coming to Taylor's aid,

she just kind of doubled down and very bitterly was like,

well,

this is actually all on Taylor for lying about this entire thing.

She also said later,

she'll do whatever to protect her husband.

So that factors in as well.

But yeah,

it's a messy situation for her.

And you said earlier that Kim or Taylor,

Sir,

past Kim on Instagram.

Was it?

So,

I mean that right there,

I assume you brought up just because Kim is probably jealous of Taylor beating

her on Instagram.

I mean,

I think it's significant because I don't know if she's jealous,

but I do think that Kardashians pride themselves in being famous.

Like fame is really important to them in a way that it's not for some other

people.

And like number one,

like they're the kings and queens of fame.

The other thing that I want to specifically,

hone in on here is Kim's use of the word victim.

I don't know if she did that on purpose or not,

but I do think that that sort of became a rallying cry because even to this

day,

when you see controversy surrounding Taylor Swift,

a lot of what people who don't like her point to is the fact that she's

always playing the victim.

And I feel like that really kind of starts here with Kim saying she keeps

playing the victim.

And then also later,

quote unquote,

exposing her for not being the victim,

but actually being the snake.

So later on this month in June,

Kanye drops the famous music video,

super controversial.

Again,

if you thought the lyrics were controversial,

nothing compared to the music video,

which actually features Kanye in bed with naked wax figures of not only

just Taylor,

but also his own wife,

Donald Trump,

Anna Wintour,

Bill Cosby,

and so many more.

Do you all remember when this dropped?

It was big.

Yeah.

And it was super creepy.

Yeah,

it was.

It was extremely creepy.

It's like,

we don't want to see people naked.

Yeah.

I mean,

at the time we also weren't talking about like revenge porn in the same

way or deep fakes in the same way.

But if you think about something like this dropping now,

people will be having a fit.

And this I think is really like,

for me,

this is the main offense.

Like I do remember hearing the controversy with the lyrics and being kind

of like,

that's kind of shitty of Kanye to write that.

But I don't know.

Maybe that's not true.

I don't know.

It's not for me to speak on,

but I do remember this music video dropping and feeling like sickened by

it.

Like taking someone's very,

their autonomy,

taking their,

their own private nude body and putting that in a video to show

millions of people.

Yeah.

It was just,

yeah.

Without consent.

Yeah.

So also very close to this time,

Calvin Harris reenters the picture,

even though by July,

they,

they had long since been broken up and Taylor had moved on to dating Tom

Hiddleston.

And the reason that he comes back into play is because it leaks in the media

that Taylor actually co-wrote his hit with Rihanna.

This is what you came for.

And she did it under a pseudonym.

And he takes offense to this because he feels like he's being discredited for

this track that is all over the radio during the summer.

I remember this being a big radio hit at the time.

And he just,

he just can't take the fact that,

you know,

Taylor's kind of stealing the limelight from him a little bit.

He goes on a Twitter rampage about this tweets quite a bit,

but the part that I found particularly interesting is that he ends his

Twitter rant with,

please focus on the positive aspects of your life because you've earned a

great one.

I know you're off on tour and you need someone new to try and bury like

Katy Perry,

et cetera,

but I'm not that guy.

Sorry.

I won't allow it.

So he brings up this past few that Taylor had with Katy Perry happened kind

of right before the 89 era and stemmed kind of through it.

And it was all about like backup dancers.

So bad blood is supposedly a dig at Katy Perry.

But I think this kind of like really feeds into the palm of the hand of not

only Kim Kardashian,

but also Kanye West,

because you have somebody that she was previously in a relationship with

calling her out and,

and also kind of like saying that,

she's a little bit manipulative as well.

And I think he's feel he's acting this way because he's feeling emasculated.

Like it's no longer his song.

It was actually Taylor's.

Right.

Can I just say that like celebrity Twitter really used to just be like the

wild West.

It was great.

There's so much more reserved now.

Yeah.

That was like,

they've all got PR managers telling us because look at what happens.

There are decades long feuds.

There are entire.

I mean,

it probably printed a lot of money,

but you know,

yeah.

Important to note as well,

that this is actually the first time that Taylor Swift is over party trends on

Twitter,

but it's not the last and it definitely doesn't make as big of a dent as it

will coming up very shortly.

So just one day later on July 14th,

Kim Kardashian doubles down in a new teaser for the July 17th episode of

keeping up with the Kardashians.

And she actually defends talking shit about Taylor.

And this is where,

what Andrew was pointing out,

a few slides earlier comes into play.

She says,

she'll do whatever to protect your husband.

And I also wanted to point out that this is where the,

what would happen if you just called Taylor up meme stubs from as well,

which is still really popular on Tik TOK today.

So it's kind of amazing.

Like how much of this lore has entered into the pop culture zeitgeist and

meant to stay there on July 17th,

right after this,

um,

keeping up with the Kardashians episode releases,

it's,

is when Kim actually drops footage of this alleged phone call between Kanye

and Taylor.

And she does it on her Snapchat of all places.

Very 2010s of her.

Yes.

We,

so we do finally get this phone call huge violation because you're not

actually supposed to record phone calls without people's consent,

at least in California.

That's the big no,

no rule,

but it is important to point out that the full video of this phone,

call actually leaks a few years later in 2020.

And that is when it's actually apparent that Kim posted a heavily edited

version in an effort to make it appear like Kanye had had Taylor's support

this whole time.

But this is definitely a huge blow for Taylor.

People really start to distrust her as a result of this.

Like why wouldn't you?

Because there's video proof of something that they've been doubling down on.

So absolutely insane time.

Now,

this is where things start to happen very quickly because after this Taylor

goes to Instagram and she posts this like long notes app and she fires

back and she's like,

we're in this phone call.

Did I say it was okay?

I was okay with Kanye calling me that bitch.

Like you don't hear it because it doesn't happen.

And also important to note that this is where she accidentally births the,

I would very much like to be excluded from this narrative theme,

which is,

is making light of a very serious conversation.

I know,

but the fact that like this part is what people really honed on to kind of

really puts into perspective,

at least for me,

how Taylor's really kind of very quickly falling from grace and specifically

from public grace as a result,

probably of being so overexposed and so seen in the media.

And the sentence was just kind of clunky.

And this,

that,

that particular sentence was just kind of funny and weird for anybody,

to say.

Yeah,

exactly.

So what about it is so kind of like,

I would like to be excluded from this narrative.

Like that seems pretty fair,

right?

Yeah.

I just think people thought at the time,

I remember people thinking it was so dramatic of her to say that.

And so they thought it was funny.

Or just say,

leave me out of this.

It's not,

I would very much like to be excluded from this narrative.

It's a mouthful.

It really is very wordy.

You would go to work and like,

you know,

like say like,

you know,

Andrew would be like,

Pam,

can you do this?

I'd be like,

I would very much like to be excluded.

From this narrative.

Yeah.

Just say no.

Like,

yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

I probably made many of the similar mistakes.

In hindsight,

I totally understand why it's like not funny at all,

but in 2016,

this was what people thought was peak humor.

And yeah,

I really kind of,

it was a concept that really took off really quick.

Cause you know,

the internet likes to make jokes of everything.

So half not surprised.

All right.

So we're getting to the end here.

Almost.

I promise.

Next.

Kim actually delivers what I feel like is the final blow or the final nail in

the coffin.

If you will.

She takes another swipe at Taylor and tweets,

wait,

it's legit national snake day.

They have holidays for everybody.

I mean,

everything these days.

And right after this happens,

Taylor's comments across all socials are just flooded with steak emojis and

hashtag Taylor Swift is over party trends again,

but this time it trends worldwide.

And it was trending for quite a,

while.

Like I remember watching this go down on Twitter in real time and it was

insane just to see how many people were getting in on this and using it as

an excuse to finally rag on Taylor and like,

you know,

to hate on her and stuff like that.

It was,

it was absolutely wild.

And this is like a worldwide cyber bullying incident.

Like,

yeah.

Yes.

Yeah.

Taylor Swift.

Yeah.

And so when you put it into that context,

you can really see why she like this affected her so much.

I don't know how,

how you see this and don't like take it personally.

Like,

it's really easy to tell people like,

Oh,

just like,

let it roll off you,

you know?

But at the time,

like canceling was a big thing.

She didn't know if she was actually going to be able to come out on the

other side of the sun scapes.

You know,

I would probably also think my career was over.

Yeah.

It hurts to be attacked online and imagine at this scale.

Yeah,

exactly.

Plus like from like big people to the Kardashians,

like they have a huge platform,

you know?

I did watch the,

the Miss Americana documentary when it came out and I haven't watched it

since,

but I do remember specifically a scene where she's talking about this and

how it was trending worldwide.

And she says like,

do you know how many people have to hate you to be tweeting that enough to

get it trending worldwide?

Yeah.

Really puts it into perspective there.

We were in 2016.

Yes.

So now we'll fast forward to 2017 because this is where things get

interesting.

I wish this click to add text wasn't there,

but that's what happens for,

anyway,

it's fine.

So from March to August,

Taylor quote unquote disappears from the limelight.

And I put disappears in quotations because as Meg was talking about just a

few seconds ago,

the Miss Americana documentary added a lot more contacts from Taylor herself

for how she was feeling during this period of her life.

And there's a lot of back and forth argument over this one quote that she

has from that documentary where she says,

nobody,

literally saw me for a year.

And people that like to split straws,

like to also denounce that and say,

actually,

Taylor,

that's not true.

But if you think about what her life was like in the context of the 1989

era,

which was just a couple of years before all this happened,

she was everywhere.

Right.

And in March through August of 2017,

she's making a concerted effort not to be paparazzi,

not really to be,

not to be photographed at all.

There were reports of her like leaving her apartment in trunks so that she

didn't have to be followed.

It's a stark contrast to what she was doing before.

So there were a couple of releases and media events that were happening

throughout this time,

but she really wasn't being seen in the same context that she was before all

of this happened.

And it was clearly by design.

And on August 18th,

this is where we're,

we're getting to the,

the,

the really exciting part here.

You guys,

Taylor wipes,

all of her social media profiles,

they completely go dark and nobody knows what's happening because it

seemingly comes out of nowhere.

But just a few days later,

she actually starts posting all of this snake imagery and it all leads up

to August 23rd when she officially announces her six studio album reputation,

which then subsequently dropped on November 10th,

2017.

And the only other little thing that I wanted to point out is that she's

I think I think she's my favorite one.

So I think that's the first thing that I wanted to point out here,

which is just more of like a fun fact.

Something that,

you know,

will make you look like a bigger fan than you are already are is that

you'll often hear Swifties talking about the grid aligning online and

getting super excited about that.

This is this visual here is a prime example of what they mean when

they talk about the grid aligning.

Usually when the grid aligns for Taylor,

it means that she's getting ready to drop a big announcement.

And she has done so subsequently for every album since Reputee.

since reputation so that's why fans will keep up so how close is she right now pam to her grid

alignment question i should have looked that up before we started recording but i ran out of time

because i was making this powerpoint oh man well it's an amazing powerpoint it's not always fully

accurate there have been times where the grid aligns and nothing happens but there's also a

way more it's way more often that the grid aligns and something does drop so her grid's looking very

unaligned right now so i think we're well before midnight as a matter of fact

pam i just want to point out how beautiful this powerpoint is and i noticed that uh the the start

of the powerpoint the background slot of the slides are all kind of like a light blue and

gradually they go to darker blue and then to black thank you thank you taylor yeah and you know taylor

has colors assigned to each of her albums and the 1989 album is light blue

reputation album it's black it's black yes in your powerpoint about taylor

yeah we started in the fearless era so those slides are yellow it's just a fun little thing

for the swifties paying attention well done well done check out the youtube video to see it

yes well i hope that you all um learned a little bit here about um reputation or like the lead up

to uh and we're gonna dive into the album

itself very shortly but before we do that we are going to take an ad break because we're

probably overdue for that so sit tight and we'll be right back

like i said at the top of the show i did ask all of you to check out the look what you made me do

music video and also a guide to some of the easter eggs i wanted to know if like there were some

easter eggs that you found fun because i know that you're going to be doing some easter eggs in the

because that's that's part of what being a swifty is is you know honing in on these fun facts she

kind of peppers through like little breadcrumbs i don't have specific favorite easter eggs but

that video that you shared with us which is like you said it was short and it is but it's so jam

packed with easter eggs that i think that's the amazing part of the video there's just so many i

assume like every single scene has at least one easter egg in it and i think that's the amazing

part about it so my abstract answer is i just love how action-packed it is in terms of easter eggs

i like the more explicit uh easter eggs such as things like you wouldn't even consider like but

like her outfits being outfits from previous public appearances award ceremonies music videos

um even at the end of the video when all the multiple versions of taylor from like the taylor

multiverse are talking with one another they each say very specific things that relate to

or call back to the easter eggs so i think that's the amazing part about it so i think that's the

to certain eras so it's like low-hanging fruit but to me there's something really iconic and

special about taylor present day at that time having to kind of embody previous versions of

herself and give them each kind of an affectation like a lot of work went into that music video

uh and the production value is so insanely high it looks fantastic but yeah i can't even begin to

understand the level of the music that's in it so i think that's the amazing part about it

uh of reference things like latin inscriptions on the thrones being a reference to beyonce it's

this whole thing is wild and to that point she does have a i think the fearless taylor who's

holding the moon man she actually has her say in the music video i would very much like to be

excluded from this narrative and you can tell that even she realizes that it was a cringy thing

to say because the other taylors tell her to shut up like stop your whining so she's very self-aware

and i think that's part of what um adds actually to her

fame factor for sure but meg you actually wrote down one of my favorites do you want to talk about

that yeah i have two favorite easter eggs from the video one is a little more serious and one is a

little sillier um the more serious one is at one point she's lying in a bathtub full of like

diamonds and pearls and next to her is a single dollar bill representing i don't remember all the

details exactly but a few years before this album she was part of a sexual assault case against

someone who groped her out like a

photoshoot or something um and she sued him for a total of one dollar to make the point like this

is about the principle of it this is not about me being greedy and trying to get money from you

so just to have that that opulent bathtub full of jewels and then just the one dollar bill

yeah representing that and which do you think is more valuable for the case the imagery is great

and then the silly thing i like is i love the um the shirts that say i heart ts uh referencing

that the

photos of her and tom hiddleston like frolicking in the ocean and he's wearing a shirt that says

i heart ts and it was like a week into them dating and like i remember at the time there

being a lot of gossip like this is obviously a pr relationship and i remember thinking well i don't

i don't think it's pr but like if one thing were going to make me believe it it were

pr it would be tom hiddleston wearing a shirt that says i heart ts it's just so silly it's so much

a couple of other things i want to talk about is like i don't know if you've heard about the

other fun facts for you all that you can whip out at your next swifty gathering some of my favorite

facts from this era are firstly that taylor didn't do any media interviews for reputation

and years later when she sat down with ellen she said quote i just basically wanted to make music

and not explain it with my career i want to do what feels right at the time and at the time i'd

coined this phrase there will be no explanation there will just be reputation because i am

dramatic it rhymed it was kind of catchy and so i stuck with it so that's pretty fun and then my

other fun fact that i love is that look what you made me do while semi-autobiographical was also

partially inspired by the fact that taylor was binging game of thrones and was super into it

so lines like i've got a list of names and yours is in red underline are directly inspired by aria

stark's kill list on game of thrones for example i thought it was inspired by santa claus because

the very next lyric she says checking the list not once but twice and i was like oh my god i'm

like she's gonna become all santa look what you made her do i guess we've never seen santa aria

and taylor in the same place so that's what i'm saying new conspiracy theory all right exactly

well getting into the actual music that reputation is comprised of i wanted to know if you all were

familiar with all of this information prior to actually sitting down and listening to the

reputation album

pieces but i've always just generally considered this album her sort of clapback album and her

darkest album and as a casual fan i always assumed that the album was centered around responding to

negative media coverage just basically that's it and to some extent it is and the album art heavily

implies this with the newspaper background and the black and black and white color scheme

um and then several

of the most popular songs on the album are pretty dark in tone i did something bad look what you

made me do don't blame me ready for it i think it goes back to those 808s that you brought up

earlier pam it's just the look and feel and sound of it is a dark album and as a bystander i'm just

sort of like that's about the media and how they've treated her and to that point she does

double down on that uh concept in the tour the reputation stadium tour which

i don't know if you can still watch that on netflix but it was on netflix for the longest time

you can definitely find clips of it online but the intro for the intro for that tour

she basically just spliced together um quotes from the media from broadcast media talking about

her and her reputation and i mean like what a flex to do that knowing that you're going to

also invite that same media to come out and review your tour most likely you know

the reputation tour sadly not on netflix right now looks like it left about eight months ago

yeah that's only in memory um the 808s though the reason i asked you guys to keep

those in mind is specifically because of the hip-hop tie-in it's also not lost on a lot of

people that one of kanye's most popular albums he's ever dropped is called 808s and heartbreak

and when he was making that album he said something along the lines of that he he he used a lot of

because he felt like that was the sound of hearts breaking so i think that even though

reputation as a whole is not exclusively about this lifelong almost feud between herself and

kanye um we would be remiss not to uh you know take into account that that was part of what

inspired it and i think that in addition to leaving actual easter eggs and lyrics and

imagery i think that it's also a way of like you know like you know like you know like you know

taylor also is very good about leaving easter eggs in the composition of her music as well

which is why some of tortured poets which is her most recent album sounds a lot like the 1975 that's

by design because she's writing about her relationship with their front man that's why

dear john harkens back to john mayer's very signature sounding guitar it's because it's

about him but she doesn't need to say that she can just add that into the production and i think

that part of the reason why i think that's why i think that's why i think that's why i think that's

the reason why reputation is so 808 heavy is because she wants to show that she can also

play kanye's game right she doesn't have to be a rapper to excel in that sound so um yeah and she

does it pretty well on reputation it's jarring i mean it doesn't sound like anything else she's

ever done but she succeeds it is jarring and it does leave the album feeling overall darker

um it is you know i kind of actually agree the sound of hearts breaking it certainly is like a

heart breaking sound and i think that's why i think that's why i think that's why i think that's

sound um it's almost sub aural you can barely hear it at times but it's there creating that

mood and the mood is not happy the mood like makes me want to stay in bed all day um even

the bangers on this album don't really get me dancing in the way that the albums on either side

of reputation you have 1989 which had just like again the endless singles and lover which might

be a personal favorite album of taylor swift uh behind red maybe but is just so like upbeat

there's a lot more this was her working through things album and definitely like the media needed

this album to know that they couldn't just pick on her and like that she would clap back and now

that she worked through this i'm happy to see that you know there was light at the end of the tunnel

like had this album in reputation started a more downward trend

i think of just like angrier more sullen kind of music like even the love songs this album just

sound sad and upset to me um it would have been bad if it had started a trend but instead she

put the work in worked out her feelings and you know some of these some of these songs are real

are real keepers i think was there anything about the album that surprised you because i i do think

that like the the miss common misconception is that reputation is like all about revenge and is

very dark i actually don't think it's really as dark as we think it is and i don't know if you'll

agree with me meg as a fellow swift yeah i actually think it's like it's kind of like a love album

it's kind of like her only album that doesn't have like uh you broke my heart and i hate you

for it song um and like in fact like 12 out of the 15 songs on it are love songs um and the kind

of darker production i think does lend itself to that because the reason

that reputation is my i think second favorite album of taylor's is because it is these love

songs but they're very mature in a way like her in her previous albums the love songs are very like

starry-eyed and fairy tale and like everything's perfect but like every love song on reputation

kind of has this vibe of like i am in love with you and it's kind of difficult because the world

is out to get me right now but it's okay because you're also in love with me and so

it does have this like very like just kind of yeah deep dark soundscape to it even like the

happiest songs on it yeah i i mean and listening back to the album yesterday i agree with you

that there are some more uplifting songs like gorgeous or delicate they're beautiful

happier songs um what i personally love about this album is the darker songs with the darker

tones and the darker tones and the darker tones and the darker tones and the darker tones and the

feelings yeah it's definitely i mean like there is that there too as well if you if you like like

the angst and anguish um but yeah i think that like it's funny that eric you said your favorite

album was lover because lover is way more um upbeat in terms of production but i actually

feel like i always tell everybody that i could probably like make like probably i could probably

make like a super album out of like lover and reputation and just cut the songs that i don't

particularly like because i feel like in a lot of ways they're two sides of the same coin

well this is the the maybe the gateway then this album into just like that amazing insider the more

lived side of life the more lived end of relationships is just the the way that you

can tell just as emotionally fraught a story in a happier key just pleases me more that's all um

so but yeah for sure his growth has been remarkable

as as an artist as a performer i don't think anybody worked harder during the pandemic like

it's just utterly insane what she does now the double album release it's just unbelievable i

can't believe look at her go um but it definitely starts from a place of you know i i know i

understand her songs aren't for the same people like different people get different things out of

her albums that's all is you know i prefer the very soul-searching introspective songs that also

are happy um

or at least upbeat while being clap backy vicious visceral poetic all that kind of stuff

knowing what we know now of the album would you all say that look what you made me do is

as a good lead single in terms of being indicative of the album overall or is there a better single

as she could have led with that would have been a better like snapshot of what we actually got

you had a thought on this about look what you made me do and delicate would you care to share

yeah well when you we were talking about the music videos for look what you made me do versus

delicate and i had the thought that look what you made me do the video was really what people

thought reputation was going to be but the delicate song and video is what it actually is

and so i i really don't think look what you made me do is indicative of the tone of the album

but i still do think it should have been the lead single because i think that kind of bait and switch

was necessary for this album and i think it's a good thing that it's a good thing that it's a good

she needed to you know say the public has hated me and now i'm clapping back and i'm showing that

i'm angry to get people to like go oh wow wow she's she's staying up for herself and then they

came into the album expecting more of that and there were like two or three songs like that but

the rest of the album is like so there's this guy and it's just like very just romantic and

loving the rest of it i had in our notes i think it's a very enticing lead single and so i

agree with what meg was saying it grabs people's attention it gets people talking and then you're

very curious about the rest of the album that said i think delicate would have been a great

lead single as well because it has mass appeal and feels more like classic taylor but what's gonna

stand out it's something like look what you made me do yeah that's true it's shock factor for sure

all right well to wrap things up i thought that it would be fun to do some lightning round uh

favorites and least favorites so we can just go through these really quick we don't have to um

pick over everybody's least favorites and favorites so to kick us off i wanted to know

what your favorite track is and your least favorite track is favorite look what you made

me do not just because it's the lead single i still love that song least favorite king of my

heart i it's just like too much auto-tune the pacing of the song is all over the place uh which

i guess is part of the point we were talking about heartbeats earlier it kind of

feels like a changing heartbeat so it's just the song just feels too messy to me my favorite on

the album is call it what you want i think that could be like the thesis of the album with lyrics

like my castle crumbled overnight but my baby loves me like i'm brand new i think that really

just sums up the album my least favorite song on the album is gorgeous i really just can't vibe

with the production it's just a little too like bubbly and then i also think that the lyrics are

mean like i understand

it's about being frustrated like this person is so attractive i'm mad that i can't have them

but i'm like you don't got to be making fun of the way they talk it just it's just it just feels a

little harsh a little too harsh for me right how about you eric uh it's it's hard to pick i think

i want to spend more time with the album uh particularly because i initially set aside

delicate gorgeous um and a couple others for like a re-listen

until i heard the gorgeous was mean and now i'm like oh god is it am i not am i not in on the joke

no no i feel free to enjoy it if you want to i definitely want to spend more time with it is

what i'll say um but that's that's the benefit i think these this is the kind of album where

there's just so much and i i've long felt the need to listen to the song have the lyrics up

as it's playing then watch the music video then watch a behind the scenes music video to under

to explain how what's going on and then i'm like oh my god i'm like oh my god i'm like oh my god i'm

what the music video was doing and then watch a powerpoint constructed by pam to tell me all the

finer ins and outs and then i can give you an opinion on this album all right um my favorite

track is uh getaway car but call it you want us a close second so i agree with you meg i love that

song so much and then my least favorite it is a toss-up between king of my heart and dancing with

our hands tied specifically because of the production on both i hate that they're so

uh messy and um just busy but um shout out to the acoustic version of king of my heart because that

actually really lets a lot of those lyrics shine so well and the acoustic version of dancing with

our hands tied at the reputation stadium tour i prefer that to the studio version yeah see

okay maybe i need to give king of my heart acoustic a shot and maybe i'll like it more

yeah wait for taylor's version yeah i might as well as at this point

um i also because taylor is known for her master songwriting i would be remiss not to ask you all

to tell me what your favorite lyric was off this album so it's hard to pick one lyric from such a

large album so to help me i'm just picking something from my favorite song look what you

made me do and it's the line i got a list of names and yours is in red underlines and part

of the reason i like that lyric is the newspaper

on the album cover uh when you think about the long-running joke what's black and white and red

all over i can't help but think that that's almost a reference to that joke i know the red is like

you know maybe prioritizing that person's name but i don't know i just means me just being a

media dork but i look at it from that angle so that's my pick i have two favorite lines one from

kind of each uh side of the album from the more reputation side of the album to the more

reputation side my favorite line is from endgame when she says i bury hatchets but i keep maps of

where i put them i think is just a really great way of summing up the whole thing with kanye of

like yeah we were friends again but then you ruined it again um and then my favorite lyric

from the more romantic side of the album is in new year's day the line uh i want your midnights

but i'll be cleaning up bottles with you on new year's day i think that's just such a beautiful

way of saying i want the high parts i want the high parts i want the high parts i want the high parts

the best days but i'm also going to be there on the more boring days the the downer days

doing the hard work for it i have a lyric picked out that's from delicate and it kind of sums up

it's like very in line with my favorite swift song of all time which is i almost do it's just

a moment of vulnerability from red but this line from delicate is sometimes i wonder when you sleep

are you ever dreaming of me sometimes when i look into your eyes i pretend you're mine all the damn

time and then just

you know is it cool i said all that i think it's delicate but like that to me is a universal

experience you don't have to have been on stage at the vmas or even in the audience when kanye did

his horribly shitty thing to understand the emotion that she's conveying um that's where

taylor swift is the best i think is when it's the most accessible and it touches me it makes me feel

things i'm so glad you said that because i fully agree with you i think that like the simplicity

of some of her lyrics it are like those are usually the ones that really hit me like a ton

of bricks i'm thrilled to hear that my favorite line off this album is just is it cool that i said

all that because i think that it's vulnerable i think that it's brave i think that it's relatable

um i think yeah i just think that there's there's so much that's packed into um so little

and it's a good one yeah i love that line i love delicate is a very close second of my

favorite line i think that it's vulnerable i think that it's brave i think that it's relatable

on the album it's just so good from the point of view of like the very start of a relationship

where things are new and things are uncertain and things are things are very delicate and

like my reputation has never been worse so you must like me for me um and i love the video for

that because i think it really sums up a huge part of the reputation album which is her just

being like i just want to be loved for who i am without all this speculation about my life and

my reputation and she gets to do that in the video where it's like she's invisible and she gets to

literally dance like no one is watching well pam i was reviewing the doc the other day

and i couldn't help but notice there wasn't one mention of taylor's version in the plans

the highly anticipated taylor's version now you did mention it at the top of the show but i was

wondering if you would like to make a prediction as to when taylor's version of this album will

finally finally finally be released because there's been a lot of talk about the fact that

sooner rather than later i feel like man i feel like that i've just been so wrong every time i

think it's coming so i think that my next guess will be november 10th maybe she'll release it on

the anniversary of reputation i really think she's holding december 13th for debut maybe not

this december 13th and maybe the next taylor's version the debut yeah the debut album like her

titled album dropping on her birthday oh i see okay because i was

gonna say for her 35 birthday you know here december 13th yeah but maybe maybe we'll get

debut before reputation i feel like that would be the ultimate power move on her part because

everybody's been assuming reputation's coming first but maybe i get i bet before now in the

end of the year she'll have a triple album release totally separate not taylor's version

not anything just boom that surprised me at this point i like the theory that she's just

going to drop reputation taylor's version out of the blue and it's going to be like

the quote where she was like there will be no explanation there will just be reputation

like no lead up at all no promo it's just suddenly going to be here well i guess remains to be seen

but um definitely am interested in reacting at least to the vault track so you can look forward

to that over on our youtube which is what the hype podcast um definitely give us a like and

subscribe over there because it's just a free way to really help out the show we're really

trying to grow our audience over there and we appreciate all you all do for us and we'll see you

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media channels as well and subscribe to the show on your favorite podcast app we're talking about

all different aspects of pop culture every week not just taylor talk on what the hype and we have

a lot of fun episodes in store for you all so we hope that you come along for the ride with us

and that's the hype thanks meg thanks everyone bye thank you bye

you