09-05-24 - Tour of Terpenes

Welcome to Basic Brewing Radio for Thursday, September 5th, 2024. I'm James Spencer. Here

at Basic Brewing Radio, we're all about homebrewing. This week, Adam Ross of Twin Span Brewing

shares four beers that were made with terpenes. Three with terpenes from Hop's and one with

terpenes from Hop's wacky cousin. Homebrewer Scott Housel helps give feedback on these

delicious beers. If you want to support us financially, check out patreon.com slash basic

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Steve Wilkes and I were finally able to get together to shoot four new episodes on the video

side. August was a challenging month, let's say, for many reasons. Financial subscribers will see

the first episode of the new episode on the YouTube channel, and we'll see you next time.

early release later this week, along with a behind-the-scenes video and a recipe.

And since we shot four episodes, you'll be seeing us wear the same clothes for two months,

which is, you know, it's the way it goes. It's great to be back after taking this past week off

from posting this show. My family and I spent some time at Eureka Springs, Arkansas. We stayed

at Wanderoo Lodge, and they've got a fun bar and restaurant there. One of the beers,

that I had, was a tasty Schwartz beer from Gotthold Brewing, just down the street

from the Wanderoo Lodge there in Eureka. We had a lot of fun. We ate too much,

walked around a bit, though, to make up for it. Haven't stayed in Eureka Springs since our

honeymoon 32 years ago. Wow. Got a lot of show ahead of us, but I do want to mention and thank

our friends and sponsors at Imperial Yeast, in addition to the excellent product quality from

Imperial.

I've benefited from their top-notch technical support when I've had questions in the past.

You know, back in the old days, in the early days of homebrewing, we'd gather at the homebrew shop

and say things like, well, I'd like to use a liquid yeast for this beer, but, you know,

I don't have time to make a starter. It was just a given that if you picked liquid yeast,

you were going to have to have a long lag time unless you made a starter. Well,

with the 200 billion cells in each,

my stir plate is dusty because I don't use it anymore to make starters for moderate-gravity

five-gallon batches, and a lot of time, not even for higher-gravity beers. My airlocks are usually

bubbling before bedtime, and with a recommended shelf life of four months, you can plan ahead

for batches, a couple, three months. You know we love Imperial Yeast. Ask your local homebrew

store about Imperial Yeast, and as always, you can check out all the dependables on Imperial Yeast.

Deliciousness at imperialyeast.com. It's imperialyeast.com. Okay, let's dive into some

terpene beers with Adam Ross of Twin Span Brewing and Scott Housel down in Florida.

Adam Ross, welcome back to Basic Brewing Radio. Thanks for having me. Scott Housel,

welcome back to Basic Brewing Radio. Thanks for having me along too. Scott, you and I are in for

Adam's going to do most of the work. We're going to be drinking beers from Adam's Twin Span Brewing

up in Bettendorf, Iowa, and I've had Adam's beers thanks to a trip to Milwaukee, and they're

delicious, so I'm really looking forward to this. So we have a common theme, Adam. What is our theme

for today? Terpenes or terps.

For those not in the know, I'm going to be talking about terpenes. I'm going to be talking about

what is a terpene? That's a great question. I really wish I would have taken a chemistry class

at one point. I had like a semester in high school. So I'm not going to pretend that I know

the chemistry, but I'll explain from the perspective of how I understand it.

Terpenes are essentially like the distilled concentrated hop oils for hops. And they're

exclusive to hops. They're not exclusive to hops. They're exclusive to hops. They're exclusive to

hops. Terpenes and a lot of the research on terpenes actually came out of the cannabis

industry and gave us like the flavors and aromas of different strains. It's basically like the

overlap in the Venn diagram from your aunt who's really into essential oils and your stoner buddy

that you grew up with. It's that overlap right in the middle, and it plays beautifully with hops.

I feel like it's very apropos right now because I've seen some articles on like terpenes in some

of the publications and online. They're certainly not new for brewing though. I first heard about

them three or four years ago, and I think Craft Beer and Brewing Magazine, and there was one

company, one dude out west, I think it was Oast House Oils. He had figured out how to get these

hops in terpene form.

And it's only grown since then.

Are there, I would assume that some hop varieties have more terpenes than others?

Probably. It's all based on oil content, and this is kind of venturing into the territory where

I might not know what I'm talking about.

Just say it assertively.

There we go. Yeah. It might help a little bit with the history, I guess. I can go that way,

maybe we'll figure it out from there.

So yeah.

After I heard about these terpenes in a magazine, and I wanted to get my hands on them,

they were, I couldn't really source them at the time. And then I was over at a buddy's

nano brewery across town, Revels and Lions, the brewer's Jeremy Stone there. He had these

phenomenally strong, over-the-top hoppy IPAs. And he showed me, eventually he showed me his secret

to how he gets them.

And I've been kind of using it as my secret ingredient for a few years now. And now that

they're getting trendy, I think it's probably time that I can let the cat out of the bag.

But yeah, they come out of the cannabis industry. And the first time I ordered,

one of the first times I ordered these terpenes from the company I usually get from, which is

Abstracts.

They sent me this textbook and PDF. And it was super incredible science, lab coat science. I

couldn't even tell you if it was written in English. And I said, hey guys, what is this?

And they're like, oh, that's actually for our scientists who, companies that make their own

custom cannabis strains. Just ignore that. And I'm like, yeah, that's fine. I couldn't understand

anything of it anyway.

But that's a long way of saying there's a ton of science here. And I don't know if it

boils down to just like Cascade has more terpenes than another hop. I do think it's closely linked

in what I could gather from the, I don't want to say pseudoscience, but the level of science that

I understand. Some hops do have more oil content than others. And they're able to

extract, emulate those flavors or extract those flavors differently depending on the oil content.

So these are hop products?

Yes, they are. The beers we'll be trying today, most of them are hop products. I've got a little

surprise later on. So most of that's a surprise. I hope you're not driving anywhere or taking any

blood tests anytime soon.

I'm eating a poppy seed bagel right now. So

Now, is it, well, maybe I should say this question, but is it legal to use,

you know, cannabis terpenes in beers?

Yes. And it's, and I'll say this with 99% certainty because I don't know every market,

but you don't even have to call them out commercially that you're using them because

terpenes are essentially like the blends of linalool and geraniol.

And citronella, all those hop oils that you hear about. That's really what they are. And

they're already there in hops. So calling them out and saying I added more is kind of,

would be kind of silly.

Huh. Are there, are there any medicinal effects or any

physiological effects or, you know, do you get a different kind of, you know, experience from,

you know, high oil?

I don't hear it as much as I did a few years back,

but certainly that was the angle that seemed to be taken a few years ago was that yes,

there is a, you get a different experience based on different oil blends. And this is paraphrasing

abstracts again, but they, they said that essentially CBD and THC, which aren't in,

in these hop,

it's like a pilot in the plane. The CBD and THC is what gets you off the ground, gets you high.

And then the oil blends that the terpenes are what sets the pace, sets the direction,

sets the mood, sets the pace. And so just like your, your aunt that has a bunch of essential

oils for different moods and health benefits. Again, there's so much overlap here where

like you'll get, hear claims of,

like lilac smelling terpenes as having a calming effect.

Um, I don't know how much I believe in that personally, but again, I'm, I'm no, um, chemist

and, uh, but also on the other side of that, I have had a heavily terpene to beer before that

did say it could calm you. And I felt pretty calm after it, but it could also be that it

was like 8% alcohol. So,

Well, I, I, and it may be an anecdotal, but I swear that, you know, if I have a big old,

you know, American, uh, you know, IPA, like, you know, a bell's too hearted or something like that

with a ton of hops in it, I swear if it makes me feel different from, you know, if I'm just

starting out with like a Pilsner, I, you know, alcohol content, uh, the same and everything.

Uh, so I don't know if that's just,

you know, that the, you know, I love hops so much that it's scratching a euphoric itch in my brain,

or if there's actually something going on.

Yeah, there could be, I I've heard of, uh, um, like sleep aid treatments that use

hop products or hop adjacent products. Um, I've heard of, uh, like,

there was one product that it was basically hops in a little bag and you put it by your

pillow and it was supposed to help you be that much more relaxed when you go to sleep.

Uh,

maybe that's true. Um, I'm sure it affects different people differently, but.

I think that would make me happy.

Right? Sleep in a bed of hops every night.

Yeah. You dry hop in your pillow.

No. Hop, hopping, hopping, dry hopping in your pillow.

Glad you cleared that up.

It's a family show.

Oh, oh, oh, oh, I'm quick.

Scott's a little further away down there.

In Florida.

Thanks for that.

Uh, well, yeah, there's, there's, uh, I, I don't know. Uh, that's the,

the answer to that is this stuff. Uh, there are claims, but it's also just a lot of fun to,

to play with. And if anything, uh, for brewers, it's the sensorial aspect of.

It that'd be great. If, if we found the right blend of hops, a terpene is to guarantee,

um, you know, relaxation or, or, uh, mental clarity or something.

such. But I'm really taking it from the approach of like, hey, this smells pretty good. This tastes

good. It's too bad you're not a supplement manufacturer. You could say whatever the heck

you want. Okay. That sound is the first can from Twin Span Brewing opening up. This is

80 East IPA. What do we got? Yeah. So this is our house hazy. And I know listeners can't see

what we're seeing, but it's the only one with a specific label art. So it's one of our core

brands in-house. At the first hazy, or not the first, but one of the first hazy IPAs I brewed

was commercially at Twin Span. And so I've really been trying to iterate over this recipe over the

years and dial it in. And at some point last year, I kind of locked in on,

this is what our 80 East is going to taste like. And it's one of the more expensive and

complex recipes out there that I use, I should say. There's like oats, there's wheat, there's

unmalted barley. There's just a lot going on structurally. And then I landed on essentially

my three favorite hops from experimenting with 80 East. So I don't know if you want to...

provide feedback before I reveal all the secrets? Well, it's listed on the can.

The three hops are listed on the can. It's a very distinctive hop aroma, and it's getting through

this old, you know, stopped up, doesn't work anymore nose. So it's got to be really, really

strong. It smells great. What do you think, Scott? I think it smells amazing. I smell definitely

tropical, maybe...

Maybe pineapple and coconut. And maybe like some tangerine.

Mmm, yes. Something citrusy.

That's exactly what I was going for. Thank you for setting that up, Scott. It's Sabro hops in the

whirlpool, which Sabro is a lot of people don't like a lot of people are scared of it. I know

people who won't if they hear beer has Sabro, they say nope, I'm not even gonna try it. It's

incredibly...

potent coconut when done right too potent if in my opinion if you it only belongs in the cattle

or in the whirlpool you don't want to dry hop with it and if you do ferment with if you decide to use

it before fermentation there's this period where it goes really strong dill like it's it smells

like a pickle and it's really scary when you have a 15 barrel batch that smells like pickles for a

moment but then there's cashmere and El Dorado and I dry hopped on this one yeah it's yeah I get

that I might I'm wearing out my nose now I'm not smelling it anymore I need to take a break but

yeah I did I did get that I I did my brain described it as a as kind of a darker note and I

then when you said coke or coconut

you did

say coconut right

yes

I swear I haven't been drinking yet

when you said coconut

I was like oh yeah that's what that is

that's

that's fun yeah

it is like a fruit salad a tropical

fruit salad

yeah so it's in terms of

terpenes why I suggest we start

with this one it actually has the fewest

added terpenes so

it is

in my math could be

wrong

here I do have the the professional scale level

but it's about 8 ounces

per 5 gallon batch for a 20 liter or whatever that is batch it's about eight

ounces of dry hops which isn't a ton and then it would be I think four ounces and

the whirlpool I'll say the what I know for a fact in case anyone wants to

double-check but for a

seven barrel batch it's 11 pounds in the whirlpool of hops and then dry hopped with 22 pounds

wow dry hops which equates to about um three pounds per barrel roughly and then i add in

eldorado terpenes i add about three milliliters for a 20 liter batch so about um it's like a

sixth of an ounce for a five gallon batch so it really doesn't take much i mean it's like

an eyedropper's worth of of terpenes that are added and these are from abstracts they're the

um and this is to prove it's not a commercial because i'm probably going to get this backwards

but they have quantum terpenes and they have omni these i believe are the omni which is um

it's a series that they um recreated they cloned hop

hops through blending these oils so um there's uh eldorado is a hop that is um specific to

specific farms that are licensed to grow it they created a version that is similar to eldorado and

they don't call it eldorado they call it something else but if you look up the uh

the oil contents and everything you can kind of figure it out so this is their quasi

eldorado in here

uh when i add it to pellets i in my mind it's like cryo hops you know it's it's the hops with

more oils so it's not exactly like adding a artificial extract it is it's adding

extra linalool citronella and all those things and i assume you had it on the cold side

yeah so early on turps were

kind of hard to blend into beer they were actually you had to use like a strong alcohol source to to

dissolve them

uh anymore uh and there's more than just abstracts doing this but

most of the big hot vendors these days have some kind of terpene and they all kind of resemble um

like skim milk if you see them in their bottled form and then you just blend it into the beer and

it kind of just dilutes in and mixes in so do uh pre or post uh for fermentation i've never done it

pre but that would be interesting because you think you could still get some of those

biotransformation because oils are there but i do a post so i'll always um i have the little

pressurized hop shooters on the top of my tanks i'll throw them in there with hops and shoot them

into the tank it seems like the you know a vigorous fermentation would help you mix things

in well yeah probably also convert though i would think these oils would get uh

converted just like like i said sabro if it doesn't get biotransformation it can pull

a lot of dill or just not be that pleasant there's some grassiness on the aroma now that my nose is

in a pleasant way my nose has gotten used to it just a teeny bit the flavor goes right along with

the aroma on my palate it's it's delicious the bitterness is nice and crisp and sharp

you know the beer is is um is not super dry so it's you know like satisfying mouthfeel uh and

then you know the the bitterness kind of you know clears the palate you know after you swallow it's

very nice yeah this is one of our best sellers um it's particularly popular with people who say they

don't like ipas my wife isn't a huge fan of ipas but she loves this beer this one was really brewed

um a beer that my wife and i would want to drink and it's really uh fortunate that our customers

agree with us so this is yeah it might not be the haziest it is hazy it might not be the as chewy as

a lot of the hazies are but it's very much um what i want out of a hazy ipa yeah i think i think if

you closed your eyes i think um you know a non-hazy fan would would like this beer i have a

hard time keep getting beers to be super hazy and stay hazy like i have just i i spent too long as a

home brewer trying to make crystal clear beer and now i seem to have forgotten how to make super easy

i don't think you've said anything about the flavor scott what do you think

i i think it's great i love when the hazies are a little bit um less on the the hazy side it's

got the softness but it's got the bitterness i get a little bit of like

citrus pith kind of i get a little pithy thing and i get a little bit of dank

um but i i really like it that's that's kind of the perfect spot where i would want

this too it's not that it's not that super juicy but it's got so much hops and

um just great flavors tropical and i love it yeah have you have you brewed this beer without

the terpene uh addition or you know do you have an indication of what you know what it's going to be

actually brings to the mix yeah it's it's kind of like with uh when i was on an episode ages ago

with you james where you talked about fruit i like to use i don't want to rely on fruit extracts

but as a top note absolutely and so i consider this a top note to that hop blend it's just more

eldorado like the el dorado kind of gets lost until you add these terpenes and it's just like oh

and uh i wouldn't really want to go beyond

five milliliters for a five gallon batch uh anything beyond that and i have i have gone

beyond it um it goes really kind of artificial candy like it's like a character it's not offensive

but it's like a caricature of that hop it's like okay i get this is el dorado you know quote el

dorado it's just very extreme in those directions and it doesn't exactly pull as like a a real hop

it's like those weird hot candies you kind of see everyone smile at like uh homebrew con or

or other events it's the jolly rancher of hops

where it's like you know watermelon their watermelon doesn't really taste like a

watermelon it's just extreme watermelon ish and a caricature is a good way to

to uh to characterize that yeah and that's the that's the um omni terpenes um

i choose to

use omni here because i like a little bit of a candy edge i think it plays really well with the

coconut and the pineapple from the hops uh if i just like doubled up the the hot pellets i don't

think i'd get where i want to go with this which is it's almost like a tiki drink you know just

like a little bit of a little bit of a candy edge to to a beverage anything else to say about uh

80 east no not really i want a little like i said i've locked in

you

this uh this flavor this recipe um i do we do have other hazies but um anyone who's been following

twin scan for a while this is why i don't have 80 east to el dorado anywhere 80 east to idaho and

all these different variances because i found that what i thought was that winning combination

of the three uh and then the terpenes kind of help with the stability there because if there's

a year where uh a harvest of el dorado that isn't el dorado enough you know terpenes can come in and

help uh

bridge the gap that's a good point it tastes super fresh too oh yeah yeah you're not unfortunately i

couldn't send you super super fresh i think this one's uh about two months old so that's not too

bad wow and what's the abv like seven 6.8 on this one what what's what's next on the uh on the

lineup let's move to the uh beers where i didn't even write their full name on there so uh

citra dreamscape is next it probably just says citra in fact you wrote another name on there and

crossed it out and then rose i filled these cans austin didn't austin was usually the one who uh

who knows what he's doing with these that's fancy presentation right there

so while you're you're um opening these and sniffing them um or tasting them

this is another series so the dreamscape series was i went out to boston last year and i went to

treehouse i actually um skipped out on the conference i was on uh and got an uber so i

could go out to treehouse it was supposed to be a 20 minute uber ride ended up with uh

um two hours two and a half hours oh my gosh yeah and the driver was uh nice enough guy kind of a

conspiracy theory nut who made it very well known so i'm going to go out to treehouse and i'm going to

it was an interesting two and a half hours but it was worth it for treehouse beers which i'd never

had treehouse i'd heard so much hype i've seen their youtube channel it's just a gorgeous looking

brewery um i know years ago people used to trade cans for just tons of money and that's not really

my scene but um when i went out there and tried a few of their beers i was like okay i they're all

really good beers uh i don't know if they're my favorite in the world i don't know if they're my

favorite in the world but they are super unique like they've they've earned every accolade they've

got and part of that i had heard before going there was that they use their own unique yeast

blend which is actually a blend of um english british or no sorry english uh german and belgian

yeast so that's what i'm doing with the dreamscape series is that i'm trying to create an american

ipa and i call this an american ipa you can see it's not hazy at all

uh very clear with uh with a yeast blend i'm getting spice on the nose it's a it's a couple

of shades darker than uh the first one yeah i think i want to do it again um and i keep pulling

back on the amount of belgian yeast and i want to go even less next time and so i i blend these

three i want to say it's like um half the yeast is um english

three

quarters is german and a quarter is belgian and i think i want to go even less on the belgian but

i took the uh the temperature all three of the yeast strains i used share like two degrees

fahrenheit of where they want to ferment you know their optimal range and so i stuck the thermostat

right there and so i think i want to keep doing that but i want to pull back on the the belgian

so that it's not as it is very belgiany uh tasting and smelling i like the smell it's kind of a it's

not not quite clove not quite cinnamon but you know that kind of bright

um you know baking spice kind of uh aroma yeah treehouse isn't this spicy there is

it's the first sip i had though when i was out there uh after hearing that rumor that they used

a little bit of belgian yeast i was like oh yeah they're using at least a little bit in there

oh i'm getting that now definitely um so hops on this one all right i guess i i should take a step

and say if you are picking up the hops, which are not a secret.

It's in the name.

I get Citra for some reason.

No, I think my – it's not – the hops aren't as hop forward as the first one on my palate.

So I'm having a little trouble.

You know, that first one spoiled me.

I didn't drink the whole thing, but that first one spoiled me as far as, you know, picking out subtle differences.

Like I say, it's not as hop forward as the first one, but they're definitely there.

I probably already destroyed your palate.

Yeah.

It's all downhill from here anyway.

I'm done.

I do get the Belgian character from the yeast, and it's extremely –

Quaffable.

It's good.

When I smell it at first, I felt like I got a lot of cannabis smell out of it.

But then when you taste it, it doesn't have as much of the dank.

It's definitely less tropical, but I like it a lot.

It's, yeah, a little herbal.

I think when you said the cannabis character, I think there is a bit of that on the edge of the flavor.

You know, just –

Yeah.

Just like as you swallow, just that last little sip.

I don't know what you guys are talking about.

It's not legal in Iowa.

Ten minutes away in Illinois.

It's true.

Well, I just know from smelling at concerts and things like that.

Ah, yes.

That's right.

In the bathroom at high school.

There's things like that.

There you go.

This one is, yeah, like I –

Suggested there.

It is Citra.

It is also –

And I'll throw in a bonus hop product here.

In the Whirlpool on this one, I used Centennial Salvo.

So Salvo is made by Hopsteiner.

And it is a de-isomerized hop product.

So it is –

You get the character of hops without bitterness.

So I added Centennial Salvo to the Whirlpool.

So you should get a little bit of Centennial.

In the background before Citra comes in and stomps all over the place.

And this is all –

So in this one for homebrew level, it's only three ounces of Citra pellets to dry hop.

And then about 10 milliliters of the Quantum terpene.

So Quantum isn't created in a lab to taste like a hop.

It is actually –

Hops, through whatever magic proprietary process, they convert the hops into terpenes.

Into this, like I said, skim milk type fluid that you can add cold side.

So when they were trialing this, since we were one of the early customers at Abstracts,

we got a sneak peek at these.

And we did some trials in-house of Quantum versus Omni.

And so how I try all these, and this is another plus for terpenes,

is if I want to try out a new hop blend, instead of just brewing the whole beer,

I will take terpenes and add it to a homebrew keg filled with water and carbonate it.

So I make hop water using terpenes.

And then I will determine what I think about these flavors before I brew even a pilot batch.

So like right now, we've got hop water with a Zaka and some pineapple juice.

And it's really tasty.

And I have it in our brewery set right inside our beer cooler for all our staff

with the homebrew picnic tap on it so that if anyone wants to come by and drink some hop water, they can.

And so we get a couple staff members who give us feedback on these hop blends.

And I had Omni versus Quantum.

And the Omni is like what was in 80 East.

It is artificial.

Not in a bad way, but it's, you know, they recreated that hop oil blend.

Quantum is, I had one of the reps, it tried to explain it to me and it went over my head.

But you basically like you pick a lot of hops, like that farm in Oregon, this picking window, turn that into terpenes and they do it somehow.

So it's a little less intense, but it also has that like a more real flavor.

It has.

I got a little bit more of like the green character of the hops.

Like I could almost taste the, you know, the brackish of the, of the, of the hops.

But in terms of levels, you probably want to go more than five milliliters.

You probably want to go somewhere between five to 10.

I will say I told abstracts I used essentially a 10 milliliter dosage and they were like, holy cow.

And it was when the spear was super fresh.

It was.

It was too much, almost too much.

Like I let it sit in the tank for two more weeks because I was like, oh, I overdid it.

This was too much citra.

It was just intense.

And that's kind of, that's leveled out.

That's calmed down a bit over time to where we have what we have now.

And this beer is probably, this beer might be four months old.

Hmm.

What, I mean, are they, I assume since there's a lot of hops that goes into this product that it's, it's,

not cheap uh and there's you know this new technology so how much does it like if you were

to add you know the suggested amounts to you know an average five gallon or 19 liter homebrew batch

how much would it add to the cost of that batch it's way cheaper than a lot of the alternative

hop products i've seen out there a lot of them are are finding ways to get real hops and like

salvo and these other hot products they're not exactly distilling the hops down you know you

have quite a bit volume more of this hot product those i've found to be uh more expensive uh this

is i don't want to say i don't want to say use turps to save money you use it to save beer

because you'll get less beer loss from the sponginess of hot pellets if you want to clear

beer terpenes really help out as you can see in front of us because

uh you don't have all that uh vegetal material um for homebrewers they do sell

small really small sizes of terpenes i haven't done the math yet but i bet uh it wouldn't be a

super cheap batch of beer but it wouldn't also probably break the bank so it's it's another

tool in the toolbox rather than strictly cost savings it's really good uh the more it's warmed

up in my cup

the more i i can appreciate uh the hop flavor playing with those belgian uh notes um you know

this is the kind of quote-unquote belgian ipa you know that um is kind of ideal in my opinion

um i think we talked about it on the show before but the belgian ipas of the past you know when

they first started coming out um of course in you know the style of american breweries you know it

was like

going all out on both the belgian yeast character and the hop character and sometimes those two

don't play well together uh depending on the yeast strain and the and the hops strain as well

but this is very nice it's uh what's the abv it's super super drinkable uh seven oh okay

yeah and uh it's funny you pick up so much belgian because the amount of belgian yeast

was really minimal um and i but i agree i'm a belgian i'm a belgian i'm a belgian i'm a belgian

i'm right there with you it is it's almost a belgian ipa so i do want to pull back on that

but still have the belgian making it make an appearance yeah i mean do you get into a situation

where could get into a situation where one yeast kind of out competes the others you know like

even if you add less of a certain yeast if it's more aggressive in its fermentation characteristics

or if it you know uh if it propagates uh fastly

faster than than other yeasts or whatever you could it's not necessarily a one-to-one as far as

you know uh the proportion of the actual yeast that you volume that you add to the beer

may not be exactly what comes out in the final product does that make sense

yeah and i'm sure the this brewers that treehouse have figured it out i haven't

it's really just i throw all the all the sea monkeys into the pool and say like hey go at it

whoever comes out on top good luck and uh the belgian uh yeast the belgian sea monkeys

i've had a couple beers where i i blend yeast and um i don't even have a microscope so i'm

not going to claim any kind of scientific uh vigor here but um belgian a little bit goes a

long ways they can be the underdog and even when you think you're not setting things ideal for

those yeast they just don't work they just don't work they just don't work they just don't work

they just they come out swinging and it's always uh it's always a very belgiany beer

initially so i mean when i when i'm saying i want to do this again with the last belgian yeast

this time was 25 i'm thinking like two percent of the east maybe like just barely having them

be there all right beer number three i don't have this one in front of me i i think uh

drunk adam at one point took this one out of the beer fridge

that's how it's sticking around for me

i knew it was in there so this one is uh colder and taller

it is a um the title is a reference to a regina specter song which is uh quite lovely um it is

a cold ipa which i had an ipl on for a while hardly anyone bought it i was really proud of it

but ipls don't sell india pale lagers don't sell cold ipas on the other hand so um and i was just

grumbling and just didn't even want to think about that style for the longest time until i i

listened to this uh video series on how to brew cold ipas and the inventor of the style name

out in i think portland oregon explained that it's not really an ipl it's uh it's basically a malt

liquor with hops with a lot of hops so a very pale malt with a lot of adjuncts in this case it's uh

rice um so it's a very pale malt with a lot of adjuncts in this case it's uh rice um so i'm just

so this one's like 70 percent american pilsner 30 rice wow um and then lager yeast fermented

under pressure oh there you go it was there you didn't you didn't hear it but i heard the first

note and then uh i paused for for the the sound effect oh thank you so it's it's fermented and

way warmer than this yeast would normally ferment so like uh

um farinite uh mid upper 60s for lager yeast i did it under pressure just so i could um

i don't know i'm a little nervous about fermenting lager yeast that that warm even though maybe i

shouldn't be so as you can see if you pour it into your glass it is very light and very clear

yes crystal clear oh yeah super pale and it is and it is james higher alcohol than your malt

liquor it is 8.2 percent alcohol take that right

well uh yeah we're that's it you you you all do have uh samples of my malt liquor

quote-unquote malt liquor and and uh i'll be interested interested to see what y'all think

about that um it's it turned out different so yeah it's not like this at all in appearance

at least i haven't tasted it yet scott my nose has stopped working what does it smell like

um i i feel like i i don't know i don't know i don't know i don't know i don't know i don't know

i don't know i'd like to have a little bit of a sip and if i want to get a little bit of the berry

and tropical not as not as potent but maybe that's the timing um yeah tropical with a little berry is

is what i'm getting yeah this is um again salvo in the whirlpool of el dorado and then it is um

strata uh two ways strata terps two ways so um omni and quantum equal amounts so about five

of terpenes for a five gallon batch uh but i'm cutting them 50 50 between the two types

but they're both strata though so the artificial quote trade in the lab artificial strata versus

real deal field strata and then i want to say i need to look at my notes i want to say because

i don't trust the the terps to blend in by themselves i guess i'll actually add them to

the pellets when i add it to the tank so i did add a little bit of mosaic pellets but like

four pounds for a seven barrel badge so i mean that's not even an ounce or half an ounce for

the homebrew scale uh i just enough pellets so that they had something to ride on on their way

into the tank yeah it's it's really good it's um they're it's it's very light uh on the on the

palate on the tongue um you know i'm

it's not as or it's not the effervescence it's i mean what was the finishing gravity of this

um super low i mean single digits um way and actually ended up uh higher avv than i predicted

because of that uh i was really thinking this was going to come and finish at like 10 10 or

something and i want to say it was probably like 1006 super dry yeah it's very light you can read

through it it's so clear and that's without any kind of clarifying agent

it's just like and that's part of and that's what i wanted and that's why i use terpene relied

solidly on terpenes rather than the pellets is because i wanted this spirit to look like

like a light lager or a malt liquor sitting no it definitely does yeah and i am getting

like a fruit like a berry um on the on the flavor not necessarily tropical on my palate

um and i don't know if that's you know just my tongue but but it's just like a little bit of a

wearing out right now but um but it's really good yeah strata's strata's i recently fell in

love with it i'd never used it before i'd heard about it and it is for me it is kind of the best

of both worlds it brings that mosaic kind of blueberry diesel character but it also brings

a lot of this like uh candied orange like i get i get those uh gummy orange candies character

coming off of this um and it's it's dank too this is the one of the dankest beers i make

to where if i'm sitting we have a long bar in our tap room if i'm 20 feet away from this tap

and austin pours uh this out of the faucet for me i can smell it it smells illegal i mean

especially when it warms up it is it is super dank you wouldn't know that it's 8.2 percent for sure

right um

that that that would fool you in a hurry um so i take it on these bigger beers like this

uh you get a you serve a smaller portion yeah at the bar for the customers yeah for myself it's

bigger portions i bring in my in my moss my leader mug

you have a boot an oktoberfest uh style boot thing

oh this one when i would be under the table because yeah this one is

super sneaky and um when i brew this again i'm going to brew another cold ipa

it's not going to be 8.2 i want i want this to be uh i i don't want to call it smaller and colder

because um the my male staff when i suggested that they all thought like that suggested something

just just call it i've been in the pool yes

i swear i've been in the pool the water was really cold or or like a turtle

it's not getting better james or or i don't know how you guys walk around with those

i do love this style though it's it took me a minute to get into it but i like the dryness

it's got some bitterness um and it doesn't have that

like the new hop flavor over the top where it's where it's just punching the face tropical

um so i like that

you want to guess ibus on this one scott oh man calculated of course 50 70. oh wow right

uh and the only only bitterness i'm considering was uh the 60 minute edition and so i'm fairly

confident in that number calculated being true because i didn't add any hops in the uh

whirlpool or ernie isomerized hops but yeah 70 and it finished that dry and um yeah i'm really

happy with it um i wish i could drink more than one without having a rough next day i've cracked

the uh the last beer just yeah so i saved um the lowest alcohol for last this is uh

this is called penjamin button and this was a

name in search of a beer so um austin who's been on the show before he's a brewer's assistant

bartender etc um he is also um i think he's uh i think he's a generation z as we'd call it so

they have their own nomenclature in terms and a penjamin is a um a pen like a vape pen but for

um cannabis products so i said that about the nerdiest way

the children have a uh a device with a battery

um this is uh henjamin button it is the recipe is super simple it's just

american pilsner with a little bit of uh cane sugar or corn sugar sorry not cane um there is a small

bitterness edition there is a very small uh el dorado salvo because i love el dorado in the whirlpool

and then there are no hops but what i did for this one was this is small batch experiment

i basically when you're a kid and you go to the soda machine and you just

push every button on the machine and you make this concoction that you

dare your friends to drink this is that but with cannabis terpene so there isn't cbd or thc in this

but these are not hot terpenes these are this is a blend of pineapple express um blackberry kush

sfv og uh gelato there's like seven i can't remember them all um just kind of blended

this concoction together uh cold side and with the goal of creating uh the dankest beer possible

this is getting through my nose but i get instead of like dark aromas i'm getting a lot of bright

aromas like almost spicy like bright fruits um you know when i think of dank i think of dark

but that's not what at least the way my nose is acting right now i'm getting like um citrus fruits

and some spices some like bright spices

i was gonna say something minty about it yeah yeah yeah a little menthol yeah this is like the um

um willy wonka where uh violet had the uh all-in-one gum and the flavor is just like

oh it's it's turkey and it's mashed potatoes and it's blueberry pie

are they gonna roll me down to the juicing room after this uh maybe i do have a willy

wonka costume or i did at one point and the staff really went austin to dress up as an oompa loompa

it's not impossible

to have that happen at some point like do let me know later if you want to cut that out

but uh no no i'm coming to it it's gonna happen at some point

yeah that's great that's a really interesting flavor it is it's like not what you expect in

a beer but it it's definitely still a beer oh yeah i don't know if it's a new style or not

because it is a uh

It's not dry hopped, but it definitely has those dry hop adjacent flavors and aromas to it.

Oh, man.

The Willy Wonka references is nice because, I mean, there are definitely candy influences in that flavor.

And it does, if you take out the major cannabis smells that you expect, it is those background smells.

And I do have some experience in smelling cannabis that I will admit at this point.

But it's probably legal where you are.

Medicinally, yes.

I will say the primary aroma should be Pineapple Express because I added the most of that.

But otherwise, it's an equal distribution of all the cannabis strains that are water soluble that I could get my hands on.

It's the least bitter of the beers.

Which is probably not surprising.

But, man.

It has the most aroma of everything.

Maybe 80 yeast might have a little bit more.

But, yeah, I stick my nose in there and it is.

Probably won't be able to smell anything else the rest of the day.

I get a lot of juicy fruit.

I just got some like Brett Funk kind of in there.

Well, that don't belong.

You're clearly wrong.

I hope not.

But something like that.

Maybe that's not it.

I do have a Brett beer in that tank that this came out of.

But that would imply that you could somehow predict the future flavors of a fermenter, Scott.

So you're saying we can't pass a drug test after we've had this?

You could.

You absolutely could.

This is just, there's no CBD, THC.

It's just the different oils.

It just so happens that.

I don't know if all these oils are found in hops.

But I would say the majority of them are.

Because there really aren't, you know, all that many that we know and measure.

Wow.

This one's been fun at festivals, though.

And in the tap room.

For those who, anyone older than the age of like 28 doesn't seem to know what a Benjamin is.

Myself included.

So I had it explained to me by Austin.

He sat me down and explained it to me.

Did you cry at all?

Later.

It's good to have an ally who can lead you through these things.

But there are people who absolutely are much, they were 28 a very long time ago, who try this and they get it.

And I've gotten a sly look across the bar at a festival where they're like, bro, come on.

How much?

How much THC is in this?

I'm like, there's none.

And I had one at a festival and I believed him.

A retired government employee who said he had never smelled or partook, partaken in any of that.

And he really enjoyed it.

Like, he was like, I don't know what these flavors are.

I have nothing to anchor this on.

But I'm really liking this.

He kept coming back for more.

I like these tasting shows where I don't have to like.

Know a lot.

I could just coast and let you explain things.

This is really good.

We've got two more shows.

We've got beers in our possession for two more shows.

We've, y'all.

I think you'll enjoy the malt liquor.

It's not what we expected or, you know, anticipated.

But I think, I think that y'all will enjoy it.

I don't enjoy the fact that it came in a 12.

Ounce bottle and not a 40 ounce bottle.

Oh, well, there's a story with that, too, that I'll I'll share when we get together to taste that.

But I want to get Chris Colby in on that because he helped me design the recipe.

So it's his fault.

And so, no, I don't know.

And then we have Scott's, an assortment of Scott's beers, including his Lichtenheiner.

Is that how you say it?

That's rude.

That's not what we're going with, I think.

We did get, I did get correction on how to say the other beer that we talked about.

The, I'm not even going to remember.

Did it start with a G?

The Gewurztum, oh, heck.

That sounds right.

You're close.

Projitzkia?

Oh, that's the one.

You went for it?

Yeah.

And Scott, you're, you listened to the show.

You heard me sound that out from the very helpful listener.

So we'll, we'll talk about that.

So we got two more shows.

We're not going to do them today.

Number one, I've had samples of four beers.

And then number two, I've got somewhere to be, actually, which I'm not driving.

But hopefully we can get together and record those other two shows soon.

And I sent you my Pog Porch Fermented Honey IPA.

Oh, a card stealer.

Which.

Which I really enjoy.

And I hope that you guys will as well.

But anyway, boy, this is fun.

Adam, you're a talented brewer.

Thank you.

And a talented talker.

And I appreciate.

I have other talents, too.

Well, I don't know if the.

That's not going to express all over the radio, though.

You have to turn the camera on for that.

Does it involve an Oompa Loompa costume?

That's the.

Come on up to Twinspan and I'll show you.

Yeah, drop by Twinspan Brewing in Bettendorf, Iowa.

And to drink Scott Housel's beers, you've got to be his friend.

How many beers have you sent?

You sent us a list of all the beers that you've contributed to Basic Brewing Radio over the years.

Was it like 38 or something?

I think it was pushing 30.

Yeah.

And some of them were close.

Like a bottle condition versus not bottle condition.

That counts.

Yeah.

And we're extremely grateful.

So.

All right, guys.

Well, I wish that I didn't have anything else to do so that I could just sit and, you know, drink the rest of these four beers and turn off the.

I've got to work tomorrow.

Yeah, I've got to edit this and do the whole show.

So.

All right, guys.

Thanks so much, Adam, for sending the beers and look forward to the next time.

All right.

Cheers.

Thanks, Adam.

Thanks, James.

Many thanks to Adam and Scott.

Looking forward to getting together with them again soon.

I think we'll taste Scott's beers next.

That Lichtenheiner sounds delicious.

In the meantime, if you have brewing questions, show suggestions or just want to say howdy, write to James at BasicBrewing.com or just fill out the contact form on Basic Brewing.com.

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So until next time.

Until then, thanks for listening, everybody.

I'm James Spencer.

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Bye.