Postgame Podcast: NC State dominated by Tennessee in Charlotte

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What's up everybody, welcome to another edition of the post-game podcast, part of the Pack Pride podcast, family of podcasts.

Man, I'm at a loss for words here. NC State, we're recapping an NC State 50, I have to look at the score to make sure again here.

51.

51 to 10, 51 to 10, the tied for the second worst loss, second most lopsided loss of the Dave Dorn era.

The only other one, 2019 against Clemson, believe that was 55 to 10 if I remember correctly, or 49.

It was 45 points instead of it being 41 points, so just not a good look overall for NC State.

Michael, before we jump into things, man.

What's the team doing, and your quick thoughts on this game, whatever we just watched?

Just as lopsided a loss, and I'm writing my post-game takeaways, if these teams play 10 times, Tennessee beats them 10 times.

I mean, the gap here is a mile wide, and I wrote that in my day after takeaways.

It'll be posted tomorrow. It's not close.

Really, I don't really know what to say.

I don't know if I've ever seen it.

I don't know if I've ever seen a team dominate another team like this on both lines of scrimmage.

I mean, it was just a thorough beating, and again, I know all is not lost, but when you come into the season with the type of goals and hopes that you had, aspirations, however you want to word it, Tennessee looked like a playoff team.

That's what a playoff team looks like, and we talked about it all offseason.

To get to where you want to get as a program.

It comes down to if it's not the sexy thing to talk about, but it's up front, and NC State just is not good enough right now up front.

Offensive line is, you know, and I'm going to try to limit my discussion because I struck a nerve with so many people and made so many people upset last week, but sometimes the truth hurts, and in this situation, the biggest troubling thing is I think now you have these guys have played between the five of them 250 college games.

There doesn't seem to be any competitive depth because there's nobody else playing.

I think last week, I looked at your snap counts before we got on here.

Val Erickson was the lone person to play who was not a starter, and he played three snaps.

To me, that's the bigger issue of all this.

Like, there's how much better the group's not going to make some massive jump between now and the end of the year.

You may look better because maybe you'll play some lesser competition.

But when you're going six deep.

We were basically doing the same thing last year, and really five deep at this point.

It's really concerning.

I don't really know what to say.

You know, if you don't get better up front, you're going to have a tough time, you know, winning five, six games.

All right.

Well, let me do our little rundown that we typically do here before we get things started.

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So, appreciate everybody for listening, as always.

Let's jump right into this thing, though, man.

I mean, you talked about it.

Let's start.

I figure let's just start with the offensive side of the football here.

I mean, you know, really outside of the first drive where they generated, I believe, two or three first downs.

I can't really remember.

It seemed like it was three years ago with the way that this game went in the second half.

But NC State seemed like they got something going in the very first drive.

They get a stop on defense, come out, and do absolutely nothing for the next few drives.

They end up getting a field goal off of a turnover that was generated.

And then they have a chance there at the end of the first half.

You know, one of the last drives that they had, they go all the way down the field.

Some innovative offense.

We see, you know, Robert and I doing everything he can to generate some yards.

And then Grayson McCall's pick, a backbreaker for NC State.

Pick six that leads to Tennessee taking, ultimately, the lead.

What was a 20-3 lead into half.

They run away with it in the second half.

I mean, it just created a snowball that led to just a, I mean, one of the most embarrassing nights of the Dave Dorn era.

So, just your thoughts on the offensive side of the football.

Well, you know, you talk about McCall's interception being a backbreaker.

And, well, that certainly was not great.

I think if we take a step back when we look at it, they still would have gotten blown out.

You know.

Well.

Because I know it snowballed.

But it is just, I mean, just the, how overmatched NC State was, was just staggering.

I mean, just not even on the same wavelength as Tennessee.

Well, and my whole point was, if that happens, say you score there.

That makes it a 10-10 ballgame.

They go down and get the field goal they did.

That's a 13-10 ballgame at the half.

No.

By any stretch, you're not.

It's still, you know, maybe you still get steamrolled in the second half.

But the confidence.

Oh, you do.

I mean, the confidence.

I know what you're trying to say, but you do.

Yeah.

It was just.

I'm trying to reach for straws here, man.

I know.

And, again, everybody's going to be critical of Grayson McCall tonight.

He was not good.

But, you know, nothing was good on offense.

But we talked about this before the, we actually started this podcast.

And I would argue that when you have.

Zero run game against a good football team like Tennessee,

a playoff contender like Tennessee, and you're trying to be that.

You can't judge the quarterback, but so harshly again.

Yeah.

And the game plan was not aggressive enough.

I mean, you're losing and you're, you know, it's just like,

you got to start taking some shots downfield at some point.

Do they feel like they just couldn't do it?

I don't know.

I'm not in the huddle.

No clue.

But I don't know.

It was just,

I think it was right before the half was the one that really bothered me.

At the end of the first half.

And I'm just like, well, what are we, you got to do something.

Like you got to have a sense of urgency.

And again, I don't really even know at this point,

we've done a lot of these through the years.

I don't really know what else to say.

I'm sure what I'm saying is going to make somebody mad.

If I hadn't made somebody mad already,

I seem to do that regardless of what we do.

I don't know.

So, you know, I don't know.

All right.

Well, I'm going to throw a couple of these up here really quickly before we

talk about another aspect of the offense.

MDW said, what are we trying to do on offense?

The jumbo package stinks.

Yeah.

Second straight week where you run it.

Matt McCabe, not really helping you there with the jumbo package.

Not nearly the same way that.

Yeah.

Peak did at the tight end position last year.

Daniel Johnson said, I'm tired of losing.

I'm just throwing a couple of these up there.

We'll discuss the offensive line here in just a second.

George, you know, the same thing.

Said, I'm crushed.

All this hype and we can't get anything right.

Yeah, that's certainly right as well.

And then, you know, the next one here, wanted to kind of tee it up for you

because I know this is something we talked about last week.

And, yes, the offense as a whole, not a great night overall.

But Ronnie said the O-line was awful.

McCall looks worse than Armstrong.

I wouldn't, you know, I wouldn't go that far.

But, you know, I don't know.

Again, I didn't think, you know, yes, there was some bad throws tonight.

But, anyways, I'll tee that up for you as far as the offensive line is concerned

because we saw it again.

It reared its ugly head, especially early.

I mean, as much as there was some semblance of offense generated by a little bit

of the passing game, being able to move the ball down the field,

every time NC State tried to run the ball, it led to negative yardage.

I mean, I think you mentioned it beforehand.

How many tackles for loss did you say there were?

I think it was negative.

13.

Yeah, it was negative 15 yards.

At one point for NC State's running game late in the second quarter

before, you know, Hollywood Smothers broke off a couple long runs

on what was ultimately the pick six.

But just your thoughts on where the offensive line stands after tonight.

That's a mess.

I mean, it is.

You know, I'm looking at the stats right now.

2.9 yards.

What is that per play?

Ooh, that's bad.

Average yards per rush, 1.4.

It's the same old.

It's the same old song, man.

We're just, we're talking about it over and over again.

And, you know, sometimes it makes people mad like it did last week.

But, I mean, our job is to be honest.

And we owe it to the subscribers to give y'all exactly what we think

and observe what happened.

And everybody saw what happened tonight.

The offensive line is nowhere near as good as it needs to be.

And that's it.

I mean, they're just not.

Zero push up front.

They got pushed around all night.

All night long.

Even when, you know, State had a glimmer of success.

With Hollywood's mothers in there.

It's almost like, just to feel lucky.

You know, that maybe somebody just missed the tackle.

Or, you know, they opened a hole.

Or somebody slipped and fell down.

No disrespect.

But, and then, you know, not to stand up for Matt McKay.

But you're asking an offensive lineman to really play H-back and tight end.

You're asking him to do things that really, at 300 pounds,

just seem just like too big of an ask anyways.

I don't know.

I just.

I just think the biggest, the most disheartening thing for me

is there's no competitive depth.

And it's not just NC State.

It's across college football.

If you're not one of the who's who of college football,

your depth in the trenches is going to be severely lacking.

And I think that is the most concerning thing of the NIL era.

And here we are is how can you combat this if you're not a top 10 program?

You know, it's just going to continue to get.

Like this recruiting offensive line is so hard.

And then I go back to people were talking about on the message board.

Well, we should have spent more money in the, in the portal on offensive lineman.

I don't know how familiar people are with the going rate for a good offensive

lineman, a starter.

I mean, we talked about this last year, Corey, when, you know,

guys who were group of five guys were going to the sec for like half a million

dollars.

They didn't even play.

Like, so that's where we are.

I mean, you're talking about, you know,

you can just,

it's been your whole NIL budget on the offensive line,

but then you would have the struggle to be able to afford anything else.

I think, I think that's kind of where things are.

And they are, they cost a lot of money.

Quarterbacks, offensive lineman and defensive lineman.

Those are the big ones.

Occasionally a skill guy, a receiver who's elite would also fall in there,

but it's similar to the NFL.

And unfortunately that's where we are.

That's where we are in college football.

And I, again,

the biggest problem I have is you have no competitive depth because if you did,

you'd have other guys getting snapped.

Yeah.

And just to answer a question here,

Chase asked why burn a game for Bailey just to hand the ball off.

I think it's a mixture of two things.

First of all,

I probably expected to be able to play him last week and,

you know,

things didn't go right against Western Carolina.

And then number two,

at some point you had to get Grayson McCall out of there because,

you know,

at the very end of the game,

the last,

the last drive before,

before McCall came out,

Joe Lee nearly had a,

a,

luckily he was okay.

It looked like his body just contorted in a weird way.

He was fine.

And then Zeke Corral had to be helped off the field by other offensive

lineman.

No update on where he stands.

I don't think most people saw that,

but so at some point you're going,

all right,

there's,

you know,

live to fight another day at this point because yes,

while it was as frustrating of a night as,

you know,

the,

the best players that you have on this roster,

regardless of what people might think of the talent of this overall

roster,

you still need them available as much as,

as humanly possible here.

Johnny,

you know,

saying,

did I think we were going to win?

No,

but did I think we were going to lose by this much?

Why is that popping up?

And not what I put up here?

No,

this game is an eye opener for it.

And that's kind of where I stand as well.

I mean,

you know,

this was again,

like I said,

you have 10 games left on the season.

Uh,

there's still plenty of opportunity.

Everything's still in front of you,

but you know,

let's just discuss from an offensive standpoint,

uh,

before we move over to the defense.

Cause that was pretty frustrating as well.

I mean,

how do you do a complete one 80 here?

Like what,

how,

how do you fix what you need to fix going into Louisiana tech before you

even face Clemson?

Cause we,

you know,

as much as everybody kind of talked about,

you know,

the deficiencies for Clemson this past week,

they looked like they were just fine against app state.

I mean,

is it,

is it fixable,

uh,

you know,

one or two weeks out from going into death Valley?

Uh,

I don't not get entirely fixable.

I think at this point you just,

you don't play anybody as good as Tennessee.

If you want the rest of the way,

you don't see another team this good.

Uh,

and you're pulling for them to win.

Uh,

that's probably the best thing I can say.

You will not see a team this good.

Even I don't think Clemson,

you know,

they beat up on app state.

I don't think they're on this level.

Certainly not a quarterback.

Um,

and that's really the,

the thing here.

Very clear.

Defensive offensive lines,

both really,

really good.

And the quarterback,

that's the recipe for success in really every level of football.

Uh,

and they seem to definitely are elite defensive line wise.

I think Nico is going to be one of the best players in the country by the

end of the year.

I mean,

he threw two picks tonight,

man,

but he just,

he has the look,

man.

He has the look and you have to think he's only going to get better.

It's only his third career start.

And then the offensive line.

I mean,

you've got what three all sec guys up front,

you know,

a former five-star recruited left tackle from LSU.

I mean,

they are as loaded as it gets.

Yeah.

And it is a massive problem.

They're going to be a problem in the sec.

Uh,

they'll,

they will go undefeated because I'm sure their schedule is challenging,

but that's really it.

You just play at this point,

not trying to be super negative.

You just,

you don't play anybody as good as,

as in the rest of the way.

So yeah.

I was going to point out too,

we were mentioning earlier,

you know,

the offensive line struggles.

There's some Tennessee fans in here.

They were like,

ah,

it was Tennessee's defensive line.

No,

I completely right.

Tennessee's defensive line outmatched NC state,

you know,

pretty much 90% of the snaps tonight.

Uh,

the difference,

the reason why we're still discussing it is because we were discussing the

exact same things last week in terms of the offensive line,

uh,

when it comes to stop or,

you know,

blocking for the,

the running game,

uh,

which was essentially,

not existing again tonight.

So that's the only reason why we bring that up.

I think it's disheartening too.

I mean,

you know,

we're sitting here talking about all the podcasts.

People are watching this NC state fans,

but for the roster,

the guys in that locker room,

it has got to be disheartening to still be talking about this all the time.

I mean,

the run blocking and no run game.

And we've been doing this thing for years and,

you know,

you win eight,

nine games,

Corey,

but you,

you can't,

it is impossible to take the next,

the next step as a program when you cannot at least be a threat to run the

football.

And right now,

NC state's not even close.

And I,

I venture to say that boring something unforeseen,

they're going to probably finish towards the bottom of the league and

rushing again.

I mean,

I don't,

how does this get fixed?

I mean,

you,

I mean,

you couldn't move the ball really against Western Carolina last week.

You're not going to play a defensive front worse than theirs in the ACC.

So,

uh,

that's where I'm at.

Yeah.

Um,

question here from,

from Jared,

there's quite a few and I'm going to try to get to as many as I can.

Uh,

but Jared asked a good question.

He said,

where's the use of Rogers through two games and,

and where was Joliet tonight?

Uh,

that was one thing I wanted to point out.

I mean,

I said this before the game,

like if NC state was going to be competitive or potentially win this game,

which seems laughable now at this point,

given what we just witnessed,

but if NC state was going to be in this game,

it needed to a on defense,

be able to play,

uh,

force mistakes from Nico and Maliava,

uh,

and be able to,

you know,

get turnovers and do something off of them.

They got three points off of,

uh,

one of the turnovers and then ended up,

you know,

actually getting a pick six.

That was the only touchdown was the score to the night for NC state.

I was obviously late in the game and garbage time.

Uh,

but you know,

and then the other thing was on offense,

be able to move the football through other ways other than just Kevin

Concepcion.

Uh,

now granted tonight,

only,

he only had five catches,

53 yards,

uh,

he was used quite heavily there in the,

the beginning of the game.

Uh,

they had to kind of go away from him because,

Hey,

they weren't able to do anything offensively,

uh,

for the most part,

like you said,

uh,

10 plus tackles for loss leads to,

uh,

some serious struggles for the offensive side of the football,

but it was going to come down to them being able to get the football

to,

you know,

the,

the other guys in this offense.

And they just were not able to,

whether it was,

uh,

those guys not being open or whether it was,

uh,

you know,

just the fact that they weren't able to get the ball off quick

enough.

Whether it was the fact that you couldn't get the running game going at

all to be able to set up the pass.

It just,

nothing was,

wasn't very aggressive either.

Um,

I mean,

you know,

I know that there are people would argue,

well,

they couldn't run this and,

you know,

still didn't take shots downfield.

At some point,

you got to turn it loose and just try to pick up junk plays.

And even,

I mean,

really we've thrown interceptions,

turn the ball over at some point,

what difference does it make?

You've got to start taking some chances.

And McCall does not have a huge arm.

That's not his calling card.

The accuracy supposedly is he's 15.29.

That's okay.

The one pick was horrific.

We've already discussed that.

He's just trying to make something happen at that point.

I think he's probably frustrated.

Uh,

this is certainly not what anybody envisioned.

I think,

but it's where you are.

And I don't know,

do you come out and you throw 50 times the rest of the year?

I mean,

maybe that's the recipe because there,

this team,

there's never going to be a great running team.

That's just not going to be what it is.

I mean,

so I don't know.

Do you have to change your whole offensive approach?

I would have liked to have seen them.

I know what you're trying to do tonight.

Keep the ball out of Tennessee's hands.

I get that.

But at some point,

I mean,

you got to be desperate and you got to start going,

going,

going.

And that's just,

that was one of my biggest takeaways is there just wasn't a sense of urgency.

And it just felt like you played right into Tennessee's hands at times.

I mean,

you're doing things that,

you know,

just are have disaster written all over them.

Yeah,

exactly.

And that was,

you know,

again,

that was kind of why I said the entire week,

Tennessee state was going to win this game.

If they were going to be competitive,

they need to be able to move the football through short to intermediate

routes,

get,

you know,

get the ball out quickly and keep the defense,

keep that defense on the field to be able to wear them down.

They just simply were not able to do that all night long.

Couldn't set up anything further down.

Yeah.

I mean,

Alex pointed out a zero offensive touchdowns are going nowhere.

Yeah.

And I think that's,

you know,

again,

and we'll,

we'll talk about this from the defensive side of the football here in just a

second,

but I,

you know,

the,

the issue right now for NC state and the only way to fix this is to truly,

you know,

I'm not going to say completely go back to the drawing board because there

were some things that,

you know,

that,

that did work or could work moving forward against other teams outside of

Tennessee.

But I mean,

there,

there has to be some soul searching within the next week to truly get this

thing back on track.

I mean,

because absolutely nothing is guaranteed moving forward.

I don't know.

Maybe you give young guys a chance.

I mean,

I don't know what happened,

but I'm just,

I'm just throwing a wild idea out there.

Well,

and I was going to say too,

I mean,

you know,

yes,

there's obviously Jordan waters was the veteran coming in,

but you can see the clear talent for Hollywood's mothers.

Do you up,

you know,

give the uptick of,

of,

you know,

carries to him a little bit more now,

granted,

neither one of them are going to be able to run,

you know,

well behind an offensive line,

that's not opening up many holes,

but there's clearly some more explosiveness from Hollywood's mothers that

we've seen,

you know,

and then like we said,

I mean,

you know,

getting other guys in the game,

you know,

getting other options in the game,

Justin Jolie we've,

you know,

we saw what he could do in week one.

There's a chance that he could have had,

you know,

over a hundred yards uptick for him.

And then,

you know,

Noah Rogers,

Wesley Grimes,

we're,

we're not seeing,

I mean,

Wesley Grimes didn't have,

if I'm looking at it,

correct.

It didn't have a single catch all night.

Didn't have a target.

Noah Rogers had two targets.

He caught one for seven yards,

Dakari Collins,

two for 13 yards.

I mean,

they're just,

you know,

outside of Justin Jolie and Kevin Concepcion who combined for 83 total

yards,

there wasn't anything going for the,

for the offensive side of the football.

All right,

let's,

let's just kind of move off of this for just a second.

We can get back to it if we need to,

but defensively for NC state,

you know,

you could have asked for more in the,

the,

the first,

you know,

basically the first half.

I mean,

you know,

there was several drives where,

you know,

Tennessee was able to move the football,

but they only give up one touchdown in the first quarter.

Granted Tennessee only had two drives in the first quarter.

And then,

you know,

they only gave up,

you know,

two field goals in the second quarter,

but the pick six makes it look significantly worse,

you know,

from a scoring standpoint.

And then,

you know,

the wheels just fell off in the second half.

I mean,

what do you,

what do you make of the defense?

The side of the football for NC state?

Well,

I just think that we've become so accustomed and states kind of had for

better,

like a better term on embarrassment of riches at linebacker right now.

And,

and the linebacker play was,

was pretty brutal tonight.

I mean,

I was,

you know,

watching it on TV and I found myself rewinding it and I'll go back and

watch it again.

Like I know you will.

I mean,

Sean Brown stat line looks great.

Love that.

But I mean,

when I say that they were getting just manhandled and I wrote this on the

message board,

I mean,

I'm talking,

I all across the field,

like thrown around like rag dolls.

I mean,

it was,

it was eyeopening and you know,

it doesn't matter what the defensive line does.

I mean,

they certainly didn't have a great game,

but this defense is predicated on linebackers making plays.

And if you don't make plays and your run fits are not solid and you

cannot fight off blocks,

which has been a massive issue in my opinion,

through two games for the linebackers,

they can't get off blocks.

It's not going to be great.

It is going to,

you're going to get gashed.

And that's just,

that's the way that the defense is.

And you've had guys like Peyton Wilson.

I think another thing I was talking about some of this earlier this week

is it really shows you the greatness of Peyton Wilson,

not to make anybody reminisce too much,

but he cleaned up a lot of messes last year and they simply don't have

anybody close to that right now.

I think the lack of size at linebacker is going to be a problem all year.

I mean,

you're what probably average six foot,

maybe two 25 there.

That's significantly smaller than you have been.

And teams are going to run right at you.

I know that the competitive depth probably is not there either,

but you've got to figure out a way to get some of these younger guys in

there.

You have no length there either.

I think that's a real problem.

It's just,

you know,

as,

as much as we,

you know,

want to hike a guy or two up,

I think you have to be realistic.

Don't you owe that to yourself?

I mean,

we certainly owe that to our subscribers.

Teams are going to run right at them.

You know,

and I don't see the massive improvement.

I don't know how that happens per se.

You've got two guys and I'm not trying to single them out,

but you're three starting linebackers.

I mean,

what you've got two,

four year guys and a fifth year guy.

Okay.

So not again,

singling them out.

I just,

you think you're going to see that massive jump or are you just relying on,

well,

we don't play anybody as good as Tennessee the rest of the way.

And even if you don't,

I just think it's an issue.

Yeah.

And another point here,

kind of going back to the notion that you were saying,

as far as,

you know,

potentially trying to play younger players,

you know,

the name Elijah Groves,

Phillip Rivers is burner pointed out.

So yeah,

you know,

there's another name,

six foot four put on,

I believe they said 18 pounds of,

of looks like Calvin McBride had three tackles tonight.

I feel like he and Kamal Bonner had three.

The only issue is when McBride's longer six,

three,

maybe two thirds.

Three Bonner might be two,

four,

five,

two tens.

So you're not getting,

you do maybe get an uptick in length and athleticism,

but again,

I,

we've been close to being around the program.

I don't think people understand how big of a human being Peyton Wilson.

He's huge.

Isaiah Moore,

big,

huge too.

Yeah.

He's two 50 all day long.

Drake Thomas might've been five 11,

but two 30 instinctually.

And just the smartest football player.

One of the smartest I've ever seen.

So trying to compare that to this is not even,

it's just,

it,

that's why it's so glaring.

I mean,

you can sit there and you're asking a kid to make a transition from a

position to another and he's undersized.

It's just really hard.

And it's going to be hard for Sean Brown the rest of the way.

It just is.

And that's not singling him out because I know he left it all out there at

11 tackles tonight.

But when you've got offensive lines and not everybody's going to be as big

as Tennessee,

but you're going to consistently,

consistently see six,

four,

six,

five,

300 pounds and pretty much every power five game.

I mean,

they're not going to be as good.

It's just a problem.

I mean,

if you're not blitzing him or not keeping those guys somehow in space with

stunts and all types of stuff,

it's going to be a problem.

That's really as big a problem as the offensive line is.

I'm where I'm really concerned about linebackers.

I don't know how that sticks fixable.

Yeah.

I mean,

and it was something,

and Tony Gibson's a masterful.

I mean,

I don't think anybody would question.

He's one of the best of this and corners and college football,

but,

and you know,

we go out and we talk about coaches and we can sit here and people are

going to criticize coaches,

but at some point players have to make plays.

I mean,

they have got to make plays and you know,

the offensive line is the same thing.

Got there and make blocks and they just simply don't haven't been able to do

it.

So.

Yeah.

And I wanted to,

well,

I wanted to,

I wanted to point out something.

It's on the defensive side of the football is,

you know,

the fact that you know,

this is the first game back for Jihad Carter and,

you know,

have to go back to the film to see,

you know,

his entire game and things along those lines.

But you know,

late in the game,

he gets burned by a,

by squirrel white.

And,

you know,

that was another one of those,

those plays where it's like,

you know,

if NC state's generating any kind of momentum and then,

you know,

all of a sudden that happens.

And that's again.

Yeah.

I mean,

it's just,

it's,

it's another glaring mistake for NC state,

another glaring deficiency there that,

that needs to be fixed.

You know,

the only thing I will give,

and I know,

you know,

obviously it was not a,

not a great night for the defensive side of the football either.

And it was not,

it was probably not going to be regardless,

but you also look at,

you also look at the first four drives for the NC state offense that,

that the NC state defense had to deal with.

We talked about,

you know,

Dave Doran talks about it.

And,

and Tennessee fans teed off on this when he mentioned complimentary football,

because it was something that butch Dave or butch Jones used to say,

but you know,

the first,

first drive for NC state fumble four plays in the next,

next one,

four downs.

And they're,

they're out on nine yards gained the next drive,

one play negative one yards and a fumble.

And then the next drive four plays,

nine yards out on downs.

Again,

they went over for,

in those first four drives.

I mean,

you know,

overall they went over six in the second half and that's just abysmal,

but you know,

that,

that leads to there's always a,

but there's always,

well,

that leads to Tennessee being able to keep NC state's defense on the field.

10 plays,

75 yards on the first drive,

four plays,

five yards to get the field goal after the NC state fumble three plays,

34 yards,

four plays,

10 yards,

which led to the interception.

The next two drives,

a five play,

six yards for touchdown,

five plays,

34 yards for touchdown.

So again,

that's man,

that's you know,

that's tough on the defense to be out there for basically the entire second

half.

So as much as we've seen that,

the defense has had to carry so much weight for the past two,

three years.

Yeah.

And yeah,

you got to get yourself,

you got to get yourself off on some of those,

you know,

shovel passes and things along those lines.

Those are back.

A hundred percent.

And I just,

I think the difference this year is the personnel.

Unfortunately,

you know,

maybe these guys show drastic improvement,

but linebacker is so the obvious drop off right now is it's,

it's it.

I mean,

you,

you could be the biggest Homer in the world and you cannot objectively sit

here and look at yourself in the mirror and say,

the linebacker is not a massive problem.

Again,

because so much is geared towards the linebackers in this defense.

This is how it is.

So,

you know,

I don't know.

I don't know what you do.

I do think that you've got to start letting some younger guys play,

let them just,

you know,

struggle because,

you know,

you don't want to overreact through two games,

but I just think the film is going to just be so it's going to pop.

And you're gonna be like,

all right,

we've got to.

And again,

Tony Gibson is a tremendous football coach.

Nobody's arguing that.

Nobody's going to,

you know,

judge him off this game.

I mean,

you know,

he's,

they will get better because he's such a good football coach.

I don't think there's a question about that,

but,

you know,

he's guys have got to make plays and it,

you know,

I think you've got to start thinking two games in the season,

as crazy as it sounds,

let's start getting some kids in there who have not played much and they may

not be ready,

but,

you know,

I have to get ready.

Yeah.

A couple of notes here as well.

Alex pointed this out,

39 yards,

rushing for NC state.

249 for Tennessee.

Yeah.

It's not great.

I mean,

and it's something that I was saying to Corey about,

you know,

we talk about the interceptions and all this stuff and the turnovers,

but to me,

that just shows you the separation between these two teams,

like just the physical domination,

not only at the defensive line,

but their offensive line physically dominated.

I mean,

44 carries for 249 yards,

three touchdowns,

average of 5.7 yards per carry.

And,

you know,

they really could have probably been worse.

I hate to say that.

Yeah.

So.

Mark had a good point here.

He said,

were the new receivers not able to create space and get downfields for the

offense?

I mean,

look,

you know,

it's,

it's maybe there was some of that.

Maybe there was some.

Well,

if he just didn't have to not have time to go through his progressions and

see,

I mean,

exactly.

Again,

I'm not defending Grayson McCall,

but man,

you told my pressure.

I mean,

they were just mauling state's offensive line at times.

I mean,

they're rotating guys in three and four at a time.

They're 12,

13 deep.

That's what's going to make this team so hard to be not.

I mean,

as good as Deco is,

but when you can continue to throw guys in like that,

and you're a team like NC state,

Kirk Hershey made the point when you're throwing 12 guys on the field,

and NC state has got five the entire game.

And you're already at a significant disadvantage from a physicality

standpoint.

Let's just call it what it is.

Yeah.

It just makes it really,

really hard.

And again,

I go back to,

you just don't have any depth.

At least we haven't seen it yet.

And it's similar to linebacker.

Those are the two biggest things when you can't find anybody else to play.

It's like,

you can go out and have the worst series of your life.

You can get,

give up three sacks,

but they don't have anybody else to play.

They don't have anybody else to put in.

So it's just,

that's the,

the,

the simple way to put it.

Yeah.

And Seth put it as a,

even simpler than that.

The QB had no damn time.

Nope.

That's,

that's about it.

Yeah.

I mean,

even the throws he made,

was it Joe Lee?

He made that dive and catch.

I mean,

he made a unbelievable move to avoid the sack by stepping up and

throwing with basically both feet in the air.

Yeah.

And again,

trying to,

if you drop back and try to throw downfield,

are they thinking,

man,

we're going to get our quarterback killed?

Maybe so.

But the offensive game plan,

in my opinion,

was not near aggressive,

but nearly aggressive enough.

Yeah.

Again,

I just,

I don't know.

I think,

did we put the cart before the horse with this team?

Probably,

you know,

to a certain extent.

Yeah.

I mean,

look,

I think two things,

I think two things can be true at the same time.

And,

and,

you know,

people can,

you know,

yell at me,

do whatever you want to.

But,

like you just said,

I don't know that NC State's going to play a team as talented.

No,

they definitely won't.

I don't think they're going to see an offensive line as good as this one.

I don't think they're going to see a defensive line.

Maybe Clemson,

we'll see.

I don't think they're going to see,

you know,

a quarterback as talented,

you know,

Kyle McCord has looked good,

but is he,

I don't,

I don't think he's,

you know,

at the same time,

I don't think they're going to,

I just,

I think this Tennessee is a lot,

this Tennessee team is a lot more talented than people may have thought before the season.

But at the same time,

this NC State team still has talent.

This NC State team can still compete in the ACC.

It's just,

it,

it's going to be how much they,

how many adjustments they actually make,

the things that are fixable for this team moving forward after what was just an absolutely dreadful night.

Yeah.

I think looking in,

you know,

not Tennessee is one thing,

but far as a playoff contender,

what makes me so bullish on this team and say,

you're not going to see anybody that's good.

It's just,

obviously I said Niko,

but the offensive and defensive line are outstanding from what I saw.

I mean,

and that's why this team has staying power in my opinion,

but this is more so the first two games,

in my opinion,

and where NC State is,

it's really more about NC State and not who they played.

What you're seeing is,

you know,

it's,

it's the lack of play that you guys have played.

What you're seeing from them,

the lack of play making up on the offensive line and linebacker,

that's about NC State and not about the opponent.

Yeah.

It's not good enough.

Not even close and there's no depth in either position.

And to me,

that regardless of playing a team,

this is the most challenge thing they'll play all year.

That is a concern.

The rest of the way,

you cannot be

narrow-minded

that anemic on the offensive line and struggle that bad at linebacker.

Again, this happened against Western Carolina.

These were issues against Western Carolina.

And it, of course, was amplified tonight when your playing team was talented.

But I'm saying going forward, like, you know, that's the problem.

It's a major problem.

And if anybody's telling you that's not a major problem, then they're lying.

Yeah.

I've already got people yelling at me, so I appreciate it.

Do you?

Yeah, I mean.

Don't yell at me.

Again, again, this is, you know, it's going to happen after losses like this.

What did you do?

Did you miss a block?

Apparently, my critiques are not spot on.

I can't even see the commentary.

Why don't you start posting some of those comments?

Yeah, no, those are great.

We've got over 1,100 people.

I'm here in total between Twitter and, you know, and YouTube and Facebook.

And again, guys, we're just trying to be realistic with you.

We hope that's, you know, that's our job.

As much as you, some people want us to be rosy and be like, oh, my gosh.

Well, I mean, of course.

Can I pop this up and just jump on a little bit of a soapbox here for just a half second?

You know, NCSU commentator here, or commenter said,

biggest problem is you can't assume it will get better.

I'm not assuming.

I'm not saying that anything will get better.

I'm not saying I'm what I'm trying to say.

And what I'm trying to point out is it can get better.

We we literally like and I put this in the last part of my I put this in the last part of my postgame takeaways tonight.

And I will read verbatim from it.

It said all is not lost.

I said, was it the worst loss of the Dave Dorn era?

Potentially.

Was it a humbling moment for both sides of the ball?

Undoubtedly.

Was it the end of the season?

Not by any stretch.

I said.

Let's see.

I'm trying to point out the last thing here.

Let's see.

The Wolfpack has suffered tough blows in the past and found ways to bounce back.

Look at the last two seasons with four quarterbacks in 2022 and a five game winning streak to close out 2023.

This team is capable of getting things back together.

Will they?

I don't know.

But I'm just trying to say that not all is lost at the very end here.

So I just that that's all.

That's all I'm trying to.

Yeah.

Well, I think the expectations were just so high.

Going into the season because of all the flashy toys on offense and all this.

But and all those things can still come together.

I mean, I just think.

Remember, remember Duke last year?

Yes.

I do remember.

And then this is a different team with all the chips pushed in with a the schedules never

or at least probably not in our lifetime going to be this favorable for NC State.

I mean, in tonight, I didn't think they were going to win to begin with.

I know you didn't.

I don't think many people.

If you really were objective after what you saw last week, I think to me, it was about

being competitive and to just see the gap is alarming.

And, you know, they could improve significantly.

They ain't beating this team.

They're not.

It doesn't matter.

They play them now.

Anytime this year, something if these teams line up injuries aside and everything is neutral.

No shot.

Yeah.

The other thing I will point out here as well on the field is one thing.

Christian brought up a very good point.

You mentioned it earlier.

You know, the loss of Peyton Wilson on the field on the field is one thing on the field

is one thing.

Yes.

He covered up a lot of a lot of deficiencies for NC State on the defense.

He was able to chase down some some offensive players and limit what other teams were able

to do.

He said Christian.

I'm not sure if it's a female or male.

I believe it's male said we also have Peyton Wilson last year.

We're lucky to have a nine win team this year.

Now, the other thing I will point out here about Peyton Wilson, and it was talked about

a lot last year during the bye week.

You know, Dave Doran pointed it out multiple times.

The fact that he stepped up as a leader.

He was the voice in that locker room, whether it was offense, defense, whatever it was,

he stepped up and essentially said, you know, for lack of a better term here, just was not

acceptable.

I mean, I'm not going to throw out any.

Other words that were probably used in the locker room.

A little more colorful than that, wasn't it?

Yeah, he said, he said, look, man, you know, if this is.

Yeah, exactly.

If this if things are going to turn around, it has to start with us.

And I think what you need to see right now is the leaders in that locker room, not just

the coaches, because obviously the coaches need to need to make changes.

But, you know, for the for the leaders, they need to be the ones that step up as well.

Unfortunately, he's a generational player.

And there ain't.

That on the defense.

And, you know, I didn't don't think anybody expected there to be a Peyton Wilson this

year.

I do think what the comment he just made nine win season.

I think you do in fairness, not overreacting here.

You have to be honest with yourself and say expectations need to be adjusted.

I think that is fair.

And, you know, if it was competitive tonight, maybe you don't say that.

But, you know, two games in the season, I'm not writing anything off.

I'm just think we have to be honest.

I mean, you have to be honest.

You can't say that this team is going to compete for a conference championship, even though

the ACC stinks for a better part of it.

I mean, yeah, you know, I think it's the worst power for conference.

I think right now it's not great.

It's not great.

The national perception is not great.

You have to be.

And again, I don't know, expectation wise, what is realistic as far as a ceiling being

significantly high or high ceiling is however to word it with the offensive line issues

you have and the linebacker play to me.

Again, we're talking about the same stuff.

You're not good up front and you have to be good at linebacker on defense.

I mean, we're saying the same things, but those are the things that NC State's got to

do if they're going to get to where they want to get.

And I just right now, I don't see the answers.

I don't.

Even if the competition is significantly lower than tonight, which it will be.

But it's just the things that are happening are so eye popping from a technique standpoint

and just lack of instincts on defense and being out of position.

It's just not offensively.

It goes without saying.

We've been watching the same thing for 250 starts.

There were 250 games from these guys.

So it just is what it is.

Yeah.

The the other thing I'll point out, too.

I mean, it was you mentioned technique.

You mentioned, you know, being being out of position.

I mean, there was several times tonight where there was basically arm tackles thrown at

Dylan Sampson.

Now, granted, he's a strong body running back.

He proved it last year at a different team and coming over to not at a different team

last year, but proved it coming over to Tennessee.

He's very I mean, a very talented running back.

And, you know, for NC State, you allow that shovel pass one too many times.

And, you know, and that was that was part of the issue tonight as well.

On top of all that, not not being.

Well, they took advantage of the linebacker again when they weren't running right at them.

They were running right at them.

I mean, the shovel pass is just an extension of the run play right up the middle.

I mean, they they they saw weakness and they clearly exploited it.

And I think the biggest thing, Corey, is everybody else on state schedule is going to watch this film.

And they're going to do.

The exact same thing.

Yeah.

And just after watching last week and this week, two totally opposite ends of the spectrum

with an FCS team and a, you know, top 10 team, no doubt.

They weren't able to get off blocks last week, not this week.

And again, that is why I say you've got to kind of look in the mirror and say, OK, let's

get some of these young guys in.

Yeah, I think it's I think it's a combination of that and finding out who those leaders

are in the locker room.

You know, finding out who's able to step up.

I mean, I didn't I can't find the comment from earlier, but somebody pointed out, you

know, the fact that that wasn't, you know, the Peyton Wilson thing from last year.

What?

It wasn't just him.

I mean, Icky did that beforehand.

Bradley Chubb was that several years back.

Like when you have those voices in the locker room that people want to listen to, you know,

NC State pick captains before the before the season you had, you know, Bradley or Bradley

Chubb, you had obviously Grayson McCall picked as one.

You had Zeke Corral picked as one.

And you've got, you know, Davin Vann picked as one.

Like who steps up in that locker room and, you know, really, you know, gets people back

on track?

Yeah.

And I think that's a fair question.

I asking this got to be asked this week.

But you talk about Grayson McCall being the captain.

I just think you can't put all that McCall's got to have a run game like he's got to have

some help.

I mean, this is, you know, it just it is.

I mean, yeah.

You got to give him.

They got to be a threat.

I mean, we talk about Noah Rogers, this, that and the other.

Nobody's going to respect NC State's run game.

Nobody.

So until they prove that they can move the football on the ground.

And again, I think that we can all be critical.

Grayson certainly has not been excellent in the first two.

A lot he can get improve on.

But at the same time, man, you got to give him something.

And tonight he had, I mean, I don't have any time to throw.

I mean, he was getting, you know.

He didn't get killed if he stood back there at the same time.

It's just tough because I don't, I don't know.

I just think that there's the offensive line is such a glaring problem again.

Not just from a running standpoint from, you know, they do okay and pass pro

sometime, but it's just a, I don't know.

It's hard to be overly critical of the quarterback when you're not getting any

help up front.

Yeah, that and so far, I believe if I remember correctly from last week, I

might have to go back and I could be wrong here.

I believe NC State is now over four or maybe one for five.

They may have gotten one against Western Carolina on fourth down conversions.

I mean, just that's, that's another big issue.

If you're worth in one and they're not getting it.

Yeah, I mean, fourth and short.

I mean, regardless of, you know, last week, just as much on Jordan Waters as

it was the offensive line.

He's got to stick his foot in the ground and get up field.

He didn't as a veteran.

You can't make that type of mistake and try to bounce play outside.

The blocking was not great.

He gets up field.

I don't know, man.

Yeah.

I'll just, I'll say this.

I know this is a postgame podcast for this game and obviously we're recapping

it, but I'll get your thoughts on this.

I mean, it feels like these next two weeks, I'm not just going to say the next

week because it is Louisiana Tech.

Yes.

You know, we'll see what Louisiana Tech is capable of.

But these next two to three weeks are, are prove it weeks.

Not just for the team as a whole.

Northern Illinois just beat Notre Dame.

You got to play.

Yeah, exactly.

I mean, that's what I'm saying is it feels like these are prove it weeks for

the guys that, you know, we're, I mean, there's several people saying, you know,

Smothers should be RB1, Raphael 2, like already ready to give up on Jordan

Waters.

I don't think you necessarily do that yet, but I mean, if you want those spots,

like those aren't guaranteed.

You've got to prove it.

It doesn't solve the bigger issue though.

It doesn't.

That week, it doesn't matter.

He plays running back.

You know, I really not trying to be negative Nancy over here, but the issues

are so much more deep rooted.

Yeah.

When it comes to offensive line play that, you know, I think Smothers does do

a good job because he's a change of pace guy, but I think devil's advocate there

is if you start him and he is the guy, then he doesn't have that really

shocking surprise.

I think that is some of his success is because he's so different.

Yes.

You start him.

And I think people need to understand he's probably what, 180 pounds.

So he's not a big back.

He's not going to be a guy who can carry the ball for you 20 times.

15, 20.

He's just not, he's going to, he can't, it's not going to work.

So again, you, maybe you do figure out something that, and this is not, you can't put so much

on the waters either.

I mean, they're the holes you're going to get back.

I'm sure we're going to go back and watch this film and be like, it's going to look

even when you have a chance to slow it down and look at it again, it's going to hit you

even worse.

Yeah.

Another point here.

And I saw it earlier.

I wanted to kind of bring it up.

Uh, let's see, trying to find it really quickly.

Hold on.

There's a lot of moving parts here.

Cause there's quite a few people that are, I'll just bring up the question.

Nevermind.

Um, Oh, David said this season could be bad for NIL.

We put all our chips in this year and lay an egg.

Um, you know, again, there's two sides of this.

Yes.

That's that, that is all very true right now.

Um, the other thing I will point out as well, um, you know, we all felt this way during

the bi-week last week.

I mean, bi-week last year.

You know, after, after NC state just laid an egg against Duke, which was a far different

team, but you know, that's, that's all, all I'm doing is I'm not saying I'm not comparing

this team to last year.

Don't get me wrong here, but I'm just saying we've seen it before.

We've seen this team be able to recover.

We've seen Dave Doran teams be able to recover from this before.

So I'm not, you know, it's, it's week two.

Yes.

It's an absolute ass kicking of epic proportions, but it is still week two.

Of the season.

Yeah.

I mean, you said it and I think it's worth saying that you can't give up on NIL.

Like that's not, that doesn't need to be the mindset.

I'm not saying you're suggesting that, but that is what it takes.

It's what it's going to take.

If you don't do it, you will fall off a cliff.

Yeah.

And I mean, you've got teams in the country spending $20 million on their roster.

NC state's not going to be able to do that.

Obviously, but you've got to support it.

You've got to, you know, regardless of what you think about it,

get off your high horse and, and, and support it,

or you're not going to be competitive.

So we can talk about that.

That's a whole nother.

So it's tough to say that after tonight though.

Oh, a hundred percent.

And I get it, man, but I, you gotta, if you don't support NIL, you're just,

I mean, you'll be irrelevant very quickly.

You will be irrelevant.

And I just think again, for NC state,

do you flush the game?

Absolutely.

But our job, Corey,

mine and yours is to just sit up here and tell you our opinions.

And I think we're both spot on and people may disagree with us.

And if that's the, if that's the case, then I can't help you.

You have to, at this point,

this has to be a moment as a fan where you say, wow, that really was bad.

And tomorrow is not going to be any better.

The sun's going to come up tomorrow.

Yeah.

It's just a game.

But at the end of the day, it was a sobering,

just reminder, I guess, of, you know,

you're where you're trying to get, because I think Tennessee is going to get there.

I really do.

I think this team is different again,

but I think the most, the toughest thing I can say,

and I'm going to probably agree is if, like I said at the beginning,

they play 10 times, Tennessee wins 10 times, state plays their best game.

They don't beat that team.

They don't.

I mean, I just don't see it.

Yeah.

You know, this is kind of mentioned by you multiple times.

JM said Jordan Waters would be a good running back

if he gets to the line of scrimmage before being tackled.

David Jones pointing out here that the offensive line was supposed to be good.

Left tackle was supposed to be an NFL guy.

Instead, he was called for three, three pre-snap.

I was critical not to say I am, tell you when I'm wrong,

because I am wrong all the time.

The offensive line, we talked about it all fall camp.

Neither you.

Nor I were sold last year about the wide receivers.

100%.

Like it just not saying when you know, you know,

but like that was a question mark.

And even when people you, you know, you talk to it,

they're trying to say, well, this guy's better.

I just think you have to really take a step back and say, okay,

you've got how many six year guys up there?

Three.

So you're 23, 24 years old.

You've got a third year guy.

He's the youngest.

You are what you are at some point as a football player.

And that's why everybody doesn't make it to the NFL.

I mean, for lack of a better term.

And that's why everybody doesn't play division one college football.

That's why some good FCS.

I mean, and that's not a shot at the guys.

I mean, all of the football players, whatever level,

at some point you have to realize, and it comes later for some,

that you kind of are what you are.

And NC state is the offensive line.

I think it's just something for the rest of the year.

You're just going to have to deal with it.

Yep.

Even if they start, even if they do win a bunch of games, you know,

it's not going to be this dominant offensive line that punishes people.

And, you know,

the run game is not going to be a top five run team in the ACC.

I just don't see how that's possible at this point.

Hope I'm proven wrong.

Yeah.

But if you think that it's going to get marketably better,

this is not a group of red shirt freshmen or true freshmen.

It's not.

So,

I don't know.

Yeah.

The last thing I'll point out here,

and I know I'm getting under your skin by mentioning last year's team.

The last thing that I will mention,

the one way that NC state was able to turn things around,

in my opinion,

was figuring out what its biggest deficiencies were and being able to hide

that in certain ways.

The offensive line got better down the stretch last season.

Now,

I don't think it's significantly better this year.

I don't think it's actually,

that much better,

but you know,

the,

the thing that they were able to do last year was figure out ways.

Okay.

Brennan Armstrong can be a battering ram for us.

Kevin Concepcion will figure out ways to get him the football.

I don't think,

you know,

Kevin Concepcion is going to go away.

What is that formula this year for the offense?

And what is that formula this year for the defense?

That's for the coaching staff to decide.

And,

and,

and again,

I don't think we're going to be able to say one way or the other,

exactly what that's going to be.

But if there's going to be a way to fix this,

we'll see it over the next few weeks.

And I just think the,

what's the mindset of the team,

because I think the expectations for this year were significantly higher than

last year.

We're being honest.

So how do you respond to this disappointing loss?

I mean,

this is disheartening and it,

it,

you know,

it hits you like a ton of bricks for a better term,

better lack of the word,

the words.

I don't know.

I mean,

you have to say,

okay,

well,

you know,

we need to worry about,

you know,

trying to string together some wins before we talk about conference title and

all this other stuff.

I don't know,

man.

Again,

I think you,

we all have to,

to be honest and everybody,

you know,

some people are going to be like,

well,

the sun comes up and everything's going to be fine.

Okay.

And in CSU commenter here,

another good point,

you know,

we shouldn't have to do that year in and year out.

If guys are doing their jobs and,

and that's the truth,

you know?

Yeah.

You got to win.

You got to win at some point,

man.

I mean,

there's got to make plays and they just didn't.

There's always going to be guys that you're having to replace.

That's the way college football works.

It's a,

you know,

guys are there three,

four at most nine years,

I guess in some cases.

But yeah,

I mean,

that was a hit tonight,

man.

Wow.

That hit the linebacker when he hit the gory guys.

I was like,

I'm just thinking about that.

So yeah,

that was about that.

That was about that.

That hit right there.

Kind of summed up the night.

You know,

that,

that is a,

just my cross of the entire night when he hit the gory Collins and he is 27

years old or however old he 26.

So he is a grown man.

Yep.

Uh,

yeah.

I mean that bunch of grown men out there for Tennessee tonight,

a little like that.

And Mr.

Wolf getting,

uh,

getting hit in the nutsack.

Um,

those,

those two things.

Yeah.

Pretty fitting of the night that NC.

Yeah.

Um,

all right.

Let's again,

scrap this,

scrap this entire game.

You know,

it was,

it was a miserable showing for NC state.

Uh,

everything that could go wrong,

went wrong after,

you know,

the pick six,

uh,

you know,

shout out to,

to Tennessee.

Looks like a great program.

We'll see what they do in the sec.

NC state is hoping,

certainly hoping that they,

they stay healthy.

It's going to be a tough out,

man.

I'm telling you right now,

they're going to be a tough out.

They stay out.

Knock on wood.

They stay healthy.

I don't think they're going to need any luck.

This did just look different.

They just look like a different football team.

They not,

they're not Alabama.

I'm not saying that LSU,

but they are what it looks like from us.

Just up front.

They are.

I think that was,

that was the toughest thing for me tonight to watch.

Just that physical mismatch up front.

It was so,

it was as big as I've seen in a long time.

All right.

Well,

I think that'll just about wrap it up.

Uh,

Michael,

I appreciate you jumping on and I appreciate,

uh,

the over good Lord,

almost 1400 people.

Wouldn't have missed it right now.

Appreciate you guys.

Wouldn't have missed it.

Appreciate all the Tennessee fans in our mentions all week.

And I'm glad that you guys get to,

to globally.

Maybe I'll come back sometime.

Yeah,

exactly.

Um,

and,

and thank you again to everybody for listening.

Uh,

look,

man,

we'll just go and wrap it up.

NC state,

a,

a 51 to 10 loss to Tennessee.

Not a great night overall.

We'll,

we'll have plenty more to talk about over the next week.

We'll have plenty more to talk about over the next week.

We'll have plenty more to talk about over the next few days.

I appreciate you guys listening.

We will talk to you again soon.