Talkin' With Nick Wegner - Aviation Podcast

Hello aviators and welcome back to The Finer Points.

On this episode of The Finer Points, we are talking with Nick Wegner,

one of the co-founders of Flight Schedule Pro,

the leading flight scheduling software system used in the United States.

Many of you schedule your flight training lessons

or the flying that you do through Flight Schedule Pro.

And these guys recently announced a huge effort to streamline the training process

and optimize features for flight schools, CFIs, and all the pilots that fly there.

They are really taking scheduling and what's possible through this system to the next level.

On this episode, we are talking to Nick about those plans

and his motivation to make excellent pilots.

I'm Jason Miller, and you're listening to The Finer Points.

The Finer Points is brought to you in part by GroundSchool,

the essential training app for new and experienced pilots online at getgroundschool.com.

And by Flight Schedule Pro.

See the new features we're talking about in this episode today at flightschedulepro.com.

And by the generous support of listeners like you through Patreon.

Patrons receive bonus content, weekly hangouts with me, and much, much more.

For information on how you can benefit from bonus content,

support The Finer Points, and join our weekly office hour sessions,

please visit patreon.com slash learn TF.

Nick Wegner, welcome. Welcome to The Finer Points. Nice to have you here.

Thank you, Jason. Excited to be here with you today.

Yeah, you know, you are the CEO of Flight Schedule Pro.

Are you also one of the founders of the company?

I am, yes. I founded the company with Jason Barnes.

So this was a long time ago. I'm going to date myself here.

You know, back when the internet was just coming,

coming online and being popular with everybody.

So that was around 1999.

So yeah, been out at a long time and enjoyed every minute of it.

Yeah, that's so cool. You know, you and I go back to that time, right?

I got into flying in 97. So like, you know, pretty early.

That was, I was pretty new to flying.

And I remember seeing Flight Schedule Pro. The internet's new.

Like I remember seeing, okay, these guys are doing something cool with scheduling.

And what, like, what a journey to where you are today.

I don't know.

I don't know much about your flying.

So how did you get into it? How did you get into aviation?

Yeah. So it's interesting. I don't really know.

I've just always had a bug for aviation, you know,

and when I was in college, I wanted to get my pilot's license.

So I started training at a local airport and Jason and

myself, we went to school at the University of Kansas and we were in the business

school and we were always, you know,

entrepreneurs and what we, we started to do, we wanted to start our own business really is what we did.

And so we were building websites for local companies in our college town and I was getting my, my pilot's license.

Back in those days, we had the old flip cell phones, right?

And you had to pay per minute and I'd have to call up the, the, the flight school and they put me on hold and I'd pay for a minute on hold.

I'm being a broke college student, you know, Jason and I.

Just one day we're like, why, why can't I see the schedule online?

You know, that's really, that's it.

That's, you know, we, the whole thing started, you know, trying to solve my problem, which was, I'm spending too much money sitting on hold, you know, and I'm not able to see the schedule.

So, you know, not rocket science, right?

No, no.

It's so cool.

And the internet hit and everybody was trying to figure out what are we going to do with this?

You know, so I made a podcast pretty shortly thereafter, right?

That was my avenue.

Yeah.

Online scheduling makes it.

Yeah.

Makes a ton of sense.

Has it been more challenging than you think?

What do you think is like the biggest challenge for the getting folks to adopt that?

Well, it's, it's been different over, over time.

Right.

So initially right out of the gates, one of the things that we didn't factor in was, you know, most airports aren't right smack dab in the middle of the city, right?

Especially general aviation airports.

And so most of them back then didn't have internet connections, right?

Cause.

They were kind of the last, you know, they were a little bit further out.

Um, and if they did, they were really slow.

Um, and a funny story is, um, one of the professors that are at our college, um, lined us up with a sales call.

It was our first one we ever did with, with, uh, another airport, um, a flight school in the area that they just happened to be connected with.

And we walked in and, you know, we sat down and we were all dressed up in a suit and tie, just college kids.

Don't have a clue.

Right.

Um, you know, he's.

Yeah.

He comes out, he's in like overalls and, you know, we show them, we pull out our computer and everything.

And he's just like, what are you, what are you guys doing?

You know, like we don't have internet out here and, you know, and he holds up a pencil and says, this works just fine.

You know, come back, come back later, you know, you know, all right.

Put our heads down, walked out the door, tail between our legs, you know, and got back at it.

And, um, what our first customer is actually, uh, in California.

So.

Wow.

I think back in those days, they were a little bit, you know, ahead of the game from a technology perspective in that area of the country.

Um, well, that's probably why I remember you guys.

I mean, I was flying in Oakland and, you know, San Carlos and Berkeley and like, so very aware when, when online scheduling hit the scene.

In fact, we had a number of people in the local Bay area that just wrote their own that still use them.

Actually.

There's a couple of schools.

They're like just holdouts, you know, they, and it's like some, some tech guy in 1999 wrote a scheduling software.

I mean, they're like, you know, they're like, you know, we're going to have to hire a flight instructor for the club and that's what they use.

It's what they've always used and they're going to go down with that ship.

You know,

It's like, believe it or not, we actually see that every now and then still, um, you know, it'll be a flight school.

It's, you know, a lot of them have gotten really big and they're scaling.

Right.

And they, they kind of get to this tipping point where they're like, we're, we're not a software company.

Like we really need to focus on the flight training side of the business.

And, um, so usually they'll, they'll come to us to see if we can help.

Um, so yeah.

We've, we've definitely seen that over the years.

Yeah, I'm sure.

I'm sure.

And, um, and that, and that's really cool.

You guys just announced that you got, um, some good funding and you're really taking it to the next level, right?

Like taking the schedule or, um, some of the stuff that I've seen, you know, and I don't know much about it, but I've seen things like AI scheduling for, for flight school owners to help improve efficiency, you know, to make sure that the flight schools themselves are succeeding.

Uh, but also tools for CFIs working in those schools.

Right.

Like training records for students, um, and also tools for the students themselves, training binders, right?

You can get training programs through flight schedule, schedule pro now.

So, man, it's come, it's come a long way.

Did you always see that vision or is this in front of you as, as, as you walk?

I love to tell you, this is, this was the whole plan, right?

From day one.

It's not the case, right?

It's like flying.

You take off and then you start to adjust, you know, as, as things unfold.

So, um, you know, originally it was just, you know, let's get the schedule online and really help connect the students and instructors, right.

To the school to help out, help out with that problem.

Um, and then over the years and really where things started to change, um, pretty significantly, it was when the pilot shortage topic really started to come, come front and center.

Um, and so our customer base just, you know, in general.

Has been asked to train.

More and more pilots, right.

And scale in ways that, you know, they, they've never dreamed of.

And so they've hit different problems, right.

Ones that nobody really imagined they would hit, you know, in the early days.

And so we've, we've had to adjust and, you know, our goal is to be out in front, right.

To, to really solve problems before people have them.

And what you see with the industry right now is there's a bunch of constraints, right.

Um, you can't just go pull brand new aircraft out of thin air, you know?

Um.

All the instructors are flying and training faster and, um, at a higher velocity.

They're, they're going and getting jobs quicker.

Right.

So the flight schools are being asked to train more pilots, but it's hard to get airplanes.

It's hard to keep instructors, you know, in seat.

Um, and so our goal is to really help not only the flight schools graduate pilots quicker and, you know, higher quality.

Um, but do it with, within the constraints that they currently have today until they can get more aircraft.

Right.

right? And can produce more instructors to really help with that. That's where a lot of our focus

has been there. It's really optimizing the flight school operations, right? Giving them just insane

invisibility into where all their students are, who's having problems, who's not, where do we need

to focus our time, right? To keep people moving through the pipeline. And so those are a lot of

the problems that we're working with our customers with today, really trying to solve those.

Yeah. When I read about you guys doing that, or I hear you speak that way, there's so much

resonance for what I'm passionate about. And what I really love, for me, with our ground school app,

for example, I'm always saying, I want CFIs, if they're using our product, I want them,

they can accidentally be good. You know what I mean? As long as they're going through our program

and doing the things that we tell them to do with students, they could be in that seat for six

months and they're still going to be put in that seat for six months. And they're still going to

be put in that seat for six months. And they're still going to be put in that seat for six months.

Good pilots. And it seems like you guys are really on that same track with the training

record continuity. And, you know, like in the flight school environment, when you have CFIs

moving that fast, it's just impossible for them to get as good as they should be, you know? And

so I feel like folks like you and myself, we're building tools around them, need to give them

tools that will just have them make good pilots, have them succeed, you know, in the school as a

whole, regardless of whether or not the CFI gets sucked out to the airlines, like you're saying.

Right. 100%. You know, and that is a big problem today where, you know, a student will be

training with one or two instructors and then one goes, they disappear, right? And it's like,

okay, another, now a brand new instructor is going to come through the pipeline,

pick that student up, right? And not work backwards, you know, to kind of get where

they're at today. So through the ground training applications and, you know, getting that all

systematized, you know, to where multiple,

people can come in and see it at any given time, right? It's huge. It's all getting the data there

so that everybody can get visibility into it, right? So you can keep the students moving through

and help the instructors do it, right? So they can do what they do, teach and fly, right?

Yeah, 100%. And sometimes it's the really basic stuff. You know, you look at an operation and

you realize, man, it's not rocket science. You don't have to build, you know, a bridge here.

Just a couple of basics in place. Like, you know, when I,

my first job in aviation was line service. And we had this thing called a pass down book,

you know, that you just write at the end of your shift, you would write anything you just brain

dump into the pass down book. And then the next shift, when they come, the first thing they do

is pick up the pass down book and read the brain dump, you know, from the shift before you. Basic

things like that, right? Continuity and training records and integrated materials is, these are,

you know, basic building blocks, but have a huge effect at the end of the day in producing good,

competent pilots.

I mean, I'm sure, you know, it's like, if a pilot goes through two CFIs through training,

they're just at such a disadvantage from somebody who had a good continuous experience with one

pilot all the way through. So,

Oh, yeah, for sure. Especially there's different teaching styles, you know, or, you know,

personality conflicts, you know, it's just, it's hard to tell, right? You know, so the more you can

standardize everything and teach to that standard, it's huge, right? For everybody. Helps simplify

things for the instructors and the students.

Yeah. For the owners out there, and this part is always, you know, I'm always also in the back of

my mind, you know, working to make flight schools survive, as you guys are doing more there, I think,

than probably anybody. But it's like, if the schools aren't healthy, like you said, most of

these schools are out way away from the city somewhere, and somebody's got to go out there

and find them. And in a perfect situation, they've got busy operations,

but even in the context of that, there's maintenance and other things. So helping the

school succeed, what can you tell us about the AI, the scheduling AI, which I see on your website,

right? Like, you know, what is that?

Yeah, no, no, it's a great question. So one of the things that, you know, the industry's asking

us to do is help optimize their schedules, right? And so what the problem we're solving,

is, you know, if you're a scheduler, right, and you're in charge of creating 200, 300 training

events any given day, you know, it's very time consuming to do that first, right? So what needs

to be scheduled? Where are the students at? Who do we need to prioritize? Does anybody have a check

ride today? You know, do we have a stage check? Do we need to keep them moving along, right? And

look at the weather, right? Should we prioritize certain types of flying over others, right? Are

there certain flights that need to happen at night? Can happen at night, right? Or daytime?

And so all that information's there, you've got to create a schedule 300 events every day and do

it over and over again. And so really, where we find ourselves today is like, okay, let's just

fill up the schedule. Like step one, just try to fill it up, right? That'll be good. But that's

not enough, right? It's very time consuming just to fill it up. And number two, when you do that,

if you look at one, is this good? I don't, I have no idea. Like we could have all the wrong

students scheduled, right? We could have every, every student scheduled that's really far ahead

in the course, and we've completely ignoring the ones that are behind. And so what our technology

is doing is taking all those different variables, right? And then, you know, based on how you want

to prioritize flights for any given day, it creates all of these events for you, for the

scheduler, right? And then they can click a button and it just populates the schedule for

them. It also lets them, you know, our goal right out of the gates isn't to create 100% of all your

reservations for any given day, right? Like we still, it's a, it's a complicated environment.

It really is. Aviation is so dynamic. Things change, airplanes break, people get sick, you

know? And so really our goal is to show the schedulers, here's what you need to do today.

Here's everything that needs to happen.

Right? You go in, take the top 5% of your flights that you need to really prioritize,

and we help them do that. And we show them which ones need priority. Let them place that on the

schedule, and then we can automate building the entire schedule around that. So that's really,

really what we're doing. There's quite a bit of, you know, advanced math and AI that's behind

those algorithms to really try to optimize that so that all the students, you know, based on

prioritization for that any given day, you know, are scheduled the right way, and we can move

everybody through, and we're using all the aircraft in ways that will optimize their

operations. So that's really, really what our technology is doing, and where we're focusing a lot

of investment.

Interesting. And so when you said there's a lot of variables, like one thing that comes to mind,

too, is just the different use cases. Like, it sounds like when you talk about it, we're thinking,

you know, we're looking at a school that's putting students through maybe, you know, that come in as

students, and they want to go through and achieve a goal, and it's a busy environment, which is

probably very different, say, than a lot of the clubs down in the Bay Area, some of which use your

software, where it's, you know, a lot of certificated pilots just want to book a flight

this coming Saturday, you know, and it's like, right, so it's a completely different use case.

Yeah, it must be challenging. It is, you know, and it's, it's, it's interesting, because there's a

lot of different types of training that's going on. You know, there's, you know, there's me,

right? You know, I'm, I'm not, you know, I'm not, you know, I'm not, you know, I'm not, you know,

I'm not going to be a professional pilot. But I want to go get my instrument rating. And, you

know, my goal isn't necessarily to train as fast and every day, you know, possible. But I still

want to train often enough to where I'm not repeating lessons, right? And, you know, spending

more money than I should be and taking up more aircraft time than I should be writing instructor

resources from the flight school. And so what the flight schedule process concept, they're called

progress profiles. And so the schools can go in and

set these up. And so, you know, there could be one profile for just, you know, weekend warrior type

training, you know, and you set it up with the expectation, hey, they're going to train two times

a week, or this many hours a week, right? And so our system knows that. And so we can, we can look

at that student and say, all right, is this person training two times a week, and then we can take

that information, put it into our algorithms, right? And so when we're scheduling and prioritizing

things, we have all that information. So we can not only meet the expectations, you know, of the

student, and make sure that they're flying, but also help automate that, right? And take, take all

that decision making out of the school. And then, then on the complete flip side of that, there's,

you know, the ab initio type training, right, where a student comes in, and we're going to fly as much

and as often as we can and get out the door as quick as possible. So that would be a completely

different progress profile, right?

And a lot of schools are, you know, they've got groups or cohorts of students that come in,

and they want to kind of track them, you know, as they move through, and they've got expected

graduation dates. And, you know, our system can really take all those different types of students

and, and flying and merge it all together in a way that just optimizes everything so that we can

help meet everybody's different needs.

Awesome. That sounds really cool. And I know you guys are talking about integrating training

syllabi. We're actually working with some of your

people now to try to figure out a way to integrate around school into your program.

But that's really cool, too. So how do you imagine students engaging with that? So is that like,

you know, like, it's interesting, I fly at a number of the schools I fly through use your

software, and one of them recently signed up for your billing option, right? So now at that

particular school, when I come back from a flight, we go straight to the computer terminal, right? We

don't go to the front desk anymore, we don't pay for the thing, we go to the terminal, we check in

the plane, we pay for the plane right there.

At that moment, right there, the CFI and the student then can open up a syllabus and start engaging

with training materials based on the lessons that we just did, essentially, or Yeah, yeah,

exactly. Yeah. And so all you know, your training syllabus, the finer points he knows is in the

system, right. And so our system can support any type of flight syllabus that's out there. And so

it's pretty awesome for the people using your

content will be soon here is that you know they'll be able to select hey i want to use the finder

points syllabus right in that program and so as they fly um you know and make reservations it'll

be tied to each lesson you know that's that's in your syllabus right and so we can work through it

together as they fly and train to do the ground school uh portions of the training so um our goal

is to give give our um flight schools and pilots as many options as possible from a training

perspective and you know we're excited to get your content on the system it's going to be awesome

awesome yeah i mean us too and um well that's awesome nick and are you able to still fly these

days you mentioned getting an instrument rating but um what do you what are you flying these days

or how do you get out of the office and enjoy this yeah so i i got my instrument rating a few

years ago and yeah and then and shortly after that um i started traveling a ton for work and so um

as much as i want to be up and running i'm going to be up and running and i'm going to be up and

the front flying i have to leave it up to the professionals mostly these days and fly in the

back so um yeah if anybody wants to to go fly i'm absolutely ready to go anytime so i'll never turn

that down for sure yeah yeah see that's the story i you know so many people we have this we have

this feature in our training program that we call knowledge recall i think we're the only ones that

do it as far as i know but it's essentially uh it models pilot proficiency in the sense that every

every 90 days you get these little quizzes based on what you've been studying it's

just prompts you say it's been 90 days since you looked at your takeoffs and landings or

90 days since you thought through a flight scenario or whatever it is and i just know

from so many people i mean my part my business partner the guy the software engineer who writes

our app said to me yesterday he's like you know i haven't flown in six months

and i was like you know we'll get out you know get out of the office first of all and go fly

but there's so many people that get into aviation and then just get so busy with work or they're

even people in this industry right like just to get out of the office and and go take advantage

of it and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and

of it so um anyway i i feel like birds of a feather we're both trying to make better pilots

and i commend you for what you guys are doing at flight schools and for flight instructors

and for the students going through i think it's going to make a big difference

yeah no i appreciate it you know it's all the credit goes to our team and our partners and

our in our customers you know we don't dream this stuff up in a black box you know we're out there

every day talking with our customers you know flight schools um listening to

them and you know taking their ideas and working together to solve these problems are really hard

problems right um yeah and they're new so it really does take a village to to really make

that happen so we're excited to be solving those problems and and really making a difference you

know our goal is to help help flight schools create amazing pilots and you know really satisfy that

the demand for pilots you know at the end of the day like aviation connects the world and it takes

the flight instructors

it takes the pilots you know takes the amts all of us to do that you know so i think if we can work

together and really you know use technology and you know better processes um we can absolutely

solve this thing right and make sure we do keep connecting the world that's that's what we do

it's awesome and have a lot of fun doing it right you have too much fun jason that's that's all i

know yeah it's great well you know it'd be fun to have you back on in in six months or so to see

how things are going see what kind of uh new stuff you guys are doing and i'll see you next time

thanks for joining me today absolutely it was a pleasure to be here and thanks for having me on

jason all right aviators that's all for this episode of the finer points a huge thanks to

nick it's exciting to see what those guys are doing over there and i look forward to seeing

what they have in the months to come thanks to you for downloading this podcast please share it far

and wide if you're a cfi remember we have a cfi meeting coming up this friday you can join our

cfi club free at learn the finer points.com

i'm jason miller until i see you guys again be safe and fly your best

the finer points is brought to you in part by ground school and by flight schedule pro

and by the generous support of listeners like you through patreon

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