Justin Bass - MAI Sports & Entertainment Group

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It's been 20 years.

Iconic guests.

My guest is Danica Patrick.

I mean, you've been doing this for 17 years.

You might be the OG of podcasts.

We all know this gentleman.

Let's give David Stern a big round of applause.

In 2004, we launched Sports Business Radio.

And David was kind enough to be my first guest.

He was just joking in the green room that he launched my career.

He hasn't let me go since.

It's really impossible.

My guest is Abbot Smith.

I think being authentic, being who you are, and being unapologetic about it, and being

open to receive knowledge in areas that you might be unapologetic.

That's okay, too.

My guest is NBA Commissioner Adam Silver.

International growth is something that I'm always thinking a lot about, and both for

the NBA and for the game.

And it's a recognition that nothing is preordained.

My guest is Bob Costas.

You know, Brian, as you said, I've been so lucky and did so many things that I could

never even have dreamed of doing.

All I really want to do now is return to the things that are most truthful to me as a person

and a professional.

The biggest names in sports.

My guest is Maria Sharapova.

I wanted to be in those groups, and I wanted to be in those meetings because there was

something inside of me that said that although tennis is a big part of my life, it wasn't

going to be my life in capital letters.

And I had to become savvy and smart.

A big part of sport is business.

Our guest this week, Sue Bird.

Who told you I'm a bowler?

That's hilarious.

I read that you're like a good bowler and you break 200 when you bowl.

Is that not true?

Is that a false media report?

No, no, no.

That's all fact.

Welcome to year 20 of Sports Business Radio.

Now, here's your host, Brian Berger.

Well, thanks for joining us on this edition of Sports Business Radio.

I wanted to do a show for a while focused on planning for your post-playing career during

your playing career.

So if you're a pro college or even a high school athlete.

Today's show is going to be about planning for your post-playing career.

This week's show is a must listen for you.

If you work with athletes who are earning money at any level, this week's show is also

very insightful for you.

From Emmett Smith to Maria Sharapova to Candice Parker to Cal Ripken Jr., I've had the greatest

athletes in history join me on Sports Business Radio over the last 20 years.

And many of these athletes are what I like to call athlete CEOs.

They've done a masterful job of leveraging the money, access, and insights that they've

gained during their playing career to help them plan for their post-playing careers.

You've heard those conversations.

They've done it really, really well.

They didn't wait until months before retirement to figure out the rest of their life, which

usually starts at a relatively young age in their 30s or their 40s.

Joining me for a conversation this week is Justin Bass, Managing Director in the Sports

and Entertainment Group at MAI.

We're going to discuss.

All of these things.

How do you plan for your post-playing career during your playing career?

I met Justin a few years ago.

He does a great job helping high-net individuals come up with answers to the questions that

we will pose today.

And we will discuss specific steps that elite athletes who are earning money should be taking

to plan for their post-playing career.

Again, this could be the end of their college career because a lot of college athletes don't

go on to play in the pros.

It could be.

It could be the end of your high school career if you're in a state that earns NIL and you're

not going to play in college.

So I think you'll find today's conversation fascinating.

I'm joined by Executive Producer Brian Griggs.

Griggs, how are you?

I'm doing great.

And I think, yeah, you hit that keyword fascinating.

I think this world is constantly changing now every single year with the NIL deals and

these kids getting paid younger and younger and younger.

And it's a lot of money.

I mean, it's like you can't imagine being 18, 19 years old and getting these million

dollar contracts thrown at you.

What do you do with it?

How do you plan for the future?

You know, you're not going to play.

You're not going to play for 25, 30 years.

You're obviously going to play for five, maybe 10.

And there's so much potential there with that money.

But how do you use it?

How do you finance it and do all that stuff?

So it's a great conversation today.

You really learn a lot.

Yeah.

I mean, look, this is kind of the Wild West still.

Even after NIL started a few years ago, you might have athletes who are employees of universities

soon and are paid by the university to play sports, all kinds of situations for athletes

that they hadn't.

Encountered previously that they need to learn now.

So I think you'll find today's conversation insightful.

All right.

Let's look at some sports business headlines of the week before we get to the conversation with Justin.

Headline number one, NFL owners gathered in Minnesota last week and voted 31 to want to allow private equity

firms to buy ownership stakes in teams.

Private equity investors and NFL clubs won't have any voting power influence.

Or say in the team's operations, they won't be the faces of the teams and they won't have

governance rights.

Each team will be limited to selling no more than 10% stakes to private equity.

And by comparison, the NBA and Major League Baseball allow 30% stakes from private equity.

Griggs, in layman's terms, this is a vanity play.

This is for firms that just want to say, I got a piece of the New York Yankees or I got a piece of

the LA Lakers or you don't have any say in how the team is run, what players you're going to sign

decisions that are being made.

But it's an infusion of cash for these teams.

And it's kind of a vanity play.

So we'll see how this works.

But, you know, the NFL was one of the last leagues to hold out on not allowing private equity.

And now by a 31 to one vote, they've allowed it.

Well, it's like.

Yeah, we see it more, too, with celebrities, you know, owning teams and putting their fingers in

their toes and every little thing they can get their hands on as part owners.

But yeah, it's 1% here, 2% here.

But interesting again, I think you're right.

It's it's ego trip.

It's vanity.

It's more money coming in.

And that's how the whole circle works, right?

We just keep throwing more money at it and get more names on it and making it more of a celebrity

and a big deal for everybody.

All right.

Headline number two, the NFL regular season gets underway this week.

Ravens and Chiefs this Thursday night.

And Casey Eagles and Packers from Brazil on Friday night.

You remember we had Peter O'Reilly from the NFL on earlier in the year before the Super Bowl.

They talked about adding this game in Brazil.

First time the NFL is in Brazil.

And then Tom Brady is going to make his debut with Fox Sports this Sunday when the Cowboys and Browns face off.

So those are some highlights.

Griggs, we're heading into the NFL season.

I need your Super Bowl pick.

All right.

So initially, I'd.

I'd love to have Bo Nix and my Broncos go all the way, but I don't think that's going to happen quite yet.

Quite.

That's really.

That's like when you took Metcalf.

Yeah.

Like the first round of our fantasy football draft.

That's a reach, as they call it.

It is a reach.

So that's not going to happen.

So, I mean, I'm probably going to go with what most of the pros are going to say, but I still think Chiefs are going to be right there.

And 49ers.

I think Chiefs 49ers might be what we're going to have.

OK, so you're you're saying a rematch.

Yeah.

And that would be the third time in like six years of that matchup.

Has taken place.

I know.

In the Super Bowl.

I think it is.

I think it's too good.

The Niners just signed Brendan Ayuk and Trent Williams, the two of their holdouts.

They've signed them now.

So they're they're going into the regular season now with their full lineup of players for the most part.

They've got some injuries and stuff.

But as far as holdouts go, they've got their their guys.

And don't forget your Niners.

They're going to have to pay Brock Purdy.

He's on a rookie contract.

And he's going to get paid a lot of money soon.

So, OK, I'm going to go Chiefs because Chiefs are trying to three-peat.

Yeah.

Become the first NFL team to do that.

Not even the Patriots did that.

And I'm going Lions.

I think Detroit really had San Francisco right where they wanted him in that NFC championship game last year.

I like how the Lions schedule lines up.

I like Coach Campbell.

I just like that Lions team.

And I think they're going to be a juggernaut this season in the NFC.

I do like the Ravens and what they've done in the NFC.

I like adding Derrick Henry, but I'm going to go Chiefs Lions for Super Bowl.

You're going Chiefs and 49 is is there anyone in the AFC?

You know, I said Raven.

Is there anyone in the AFC?

If the Chiefs falter, is there anyone that you see that, you know, could step in and replace the Chiefs in the Super Bowl?

I don't know.

I mean,

Eagles.

Yeah, I just it's hard to say.

I mean, preseason is so hard to judge.

You watch these teams playing like, oh, they look good in this game.

But then it's like there's not the roster you're seeing.

So it's like until you see week one, you kind of see how they're all put together next week.

I'll have a better better answer for that.

But how about you?

I mean, like I said, the Ravens.

Yeah, I'm afraid to pick the Bengals.

I love Joey Burrow, but I think he's got a bad wrist.

And I think they have, you know, they lost Joe Mixon.

Right.

A lot of people are in on the Texans this year.

They love CJ Stroud.

They love, you know, the upgrades they've made to that roster.

They think Stroud is ready to take the next step.

He's even a top five favorite for MVP.

So that's going to be an interesting team to watch.

Our friends, the Indianapolis Colts.

You know, we had Chris Ballard at Sports PR7.

I'm really interested to see what is a healthy Anthony Richards in their quarterback.

Look like.

I mean, this guy is a hybrid of a lot of different quarterbacks we've seen before.

He is a load to bring down.

He has a cannon for an army can run like a gazelle.

You know, he and Jonathan Taylor on that team.

Yeah, pretty interesting.

I'm interested in watching the Bears.

I mean, I'm sure a lot of people watch hard knocks on HBO.

And, you know, Caleb Williams is now a big part of that team.

And, you know, the number one pick and a lot of people in Chicago have a hope that they haven't had.

And, you know, I'm sure a lot of people have a hope that they haven't had.

And, you know, Caleb Williams is now a big part of that team.

And, you know, the number one pick and a lot of people in Chicago have a hope that they haven't had.

So I'm looking forward to this NFL season.

I think there's a lot of storylines, but I think the number one storyline is, can the Chiefs do it again?

And, you know, Mahomes is already knocking on the door of, you know, hey, is he going to get more Super Bowls than Brady did?

So it'll be interesting.

But then, you know, like we just said with Brady, I'm really fascinated.

We talked to Andrew Marchand last week, sports media reporter for The Athletic.

How's Tom Brady going to do in the booth?

I think he's going to be great.

I love, I don't know if you saw, he's got all of his call sheets from every game he ever played in during his career.

And he's unearthed those to help him in any way, shape, or form for his preparation for calling games on Fox.

And that level of preparation, I think, is what is going to make him different than anyone else.

Along with the fact, oh, by the way, he won seven Super Bowls.

I think he's going to provide an insight.

I think he's going to provide an insight that we haven't seen from an analyst before.

And I'm really excited.

Like I said last week, I don't care if he's calling the two worst teams in the NFL.

I'm watching the game because I want to listen to him.

Well, I mean, and a couple years ago, he did that YouTube show where he got into his life and you saw his nutrition and his fitness and all the stuff he puts into his playing career.

You know he's going to prep the same way for doing the booth.

So you know he's going to have so much information packed in and his call sheets, like you said.

He's such a brilliant mind of the game.

He knows the game.

Clearly, he knows how to play.

He sees the game differently.

So it's going to be fun to hear his mind speak to us as we're watching.

So I'm looking forward to it, too.

All right.

Our next headline.

This is really staggering if you think about it for golf.

Scotty Scheffler wins the FedEx Cup.

He wins the bonus.

Griggs, Scotty Scheffler earned $62.2 million in 2024.

To put that into perspective, Jack Nicklaus, who's been on this show, won 9.1%.

He won $9.1 million in his entire career on course.

Nicklaus, as most people know, has 18 major titles, which is more than any other golfer.

And he won $9.1 million for his entire career on course.

Now, more modern times, people go, well, what about Tiger Woods?

Tiger Woods' best year with on-course earnings was 2007 when he took home $10.8 million.

To further put this in perspective, Ted Scott, who is the caddy for Scotty Scheffler,

earned almost $6 million this year, which would have put him in the top 25 of the PGA Tour player earnings.

So he earned more with a lot of players on the tour as the caddy for Scotty Scheffler.

Scotty Scheffler won an Olympic gold medal.

He did everything.

He had a baby.

This year with his wife, this was a year that will never be forgotten.

I know the money increases every year, but he won seven tournaments this year.

Only Tiger Woods has done that before in a single season in modern times.

It's really a remarkable year, but it's staggering.

If you took just this season, 2024, to $62.2 million,

it places Scotty Scheffler.

Eight in career earnings for a golfer on course.

Now, we're not talking about endorsements because Tiger Woods, Jack Nicklaus make a lot of money off course,

more than Scheffler.

But on course earnings, just this season, one year,

he would be eight lifetime in career earnings on course on the PGA Tour.

That is phenomenal, Greg.

Staggering, and not to mention he got a gold medal too.

So, you know, just add that to the list of 100.

Things he's done this year.

I mean, he's literally like the guy that, you know,

so many people come to the big stage and they can't finish it out.

He's just like, oh, it's just another tournament.

I'll win this one too.

I'll win this one too, and I'll win this one too.

I mean, he is so fun to watch and just commands the course.

And what a year.

All right, let's break this down a little bit further.

So, $62.2 million.

Golf Digest did this breakdown.

$3.2 million per start.

$829,000.

$829,000 per round.

$46,095 per hole.

Or $12,240 per shot.

I mean, Greg, think about all the shots we take on a golf course.

Wouldn't it be amazing if someone was like, hey, I'm going to pay you $12,000

for every shot that you take?

That would be, I mean, gosh, people would lose money on us

because we take a lot of shots.

We do.

I mean, just one round.

We would rake it in.

But, yeah, it's really staggering, you know, when you compare the money being earned today

to the money.

Heck, forget about the days of Jack Nicklaus.

If you just compared money to 2004 when we started this show to now, it's mind-boggling.

It's one of the reasons we do this show.

And, you know, you see how much money there is behind the scenes in sports.

But congrats to Scotty Scheffler.

I mean, here's a guy that got put in jail and came out and shot a.

Sixty-six hours after being in jail.

That might be the best thing he did this year as far as the most impressive thing that he did.

But everything he touched turned to gold.

Congratulations to Scotty Scheffler.

If I were Nike Golf, I would stay in business as long as possible

just to continue to work with Scotty Scheffler.

I mean, he's showing he's a generational golfer.

This isn't the time that you want to stop your business if you're Nike Golf.

Like, keep going with Scotty Scheffler.

He is a generational.

Generational golfer.

All right.

Speaking of big money, our next headline.

Steph Curry has a new $62.6 million contract extension

that will carry him through the 2026-2027 NBA season.

Curry has now eclipsed the half a billion dollar mark on court for his career.

He joins LeBron and Kevin Durant in that category.

There has been a lot of talk about,

did the Warriors tear down?

Did the Warriors tear down their team and do a complete rebuild,

including trading Steph?

Or did they continue to try and make runs with Steph?

I think Steph is like a Derek Jeter.

You want to keep him in the same uniform the entire career.

He's still, his game ages well.

I mean, he's an outside shooter.

He's not going to the hole all the time.

His body takes a beating, but not like he's a big man.

I think you look at,

Ray Allen or someone like that and how long they were able to extend their career,

Reggie Miller.

I think Steph still has four or five really good years in him.

So this contract kind of quiets those rumors about,

oh, do we get rid of Steph if the team is failing this year?

And, you know, now if you're going to trade him,

how many teams can absorb $62.6 million into their cap space, right?

You just made it much harder.

But the thing with Steph, and I would say the same about LeBron

and certainly Michael Jordan when he played and Tom Brady and players like that,

their value exceeds their contract value.

So you're paying $62.6 million for Steph for this season.

Think of all of the revenue he is generating with jersey sales, ticket sales, sponsorships.

He's making your team far more relevant than they would be if he wasn't on the team.

And he's an international global superstar.

Especially after his performance at the Olympics this year.

This is a big piece of your organization.

You don't get rid of this piece until the piece says,

you know what, I'm done.

I don't want to play anymore.

I think Steph Curry should be a warrior for life.

I think the Warriors want that.

The ownership wants that.

The fans want that.

So I'd be shocked if Steph Curry is ever in a uniform other than the Golden State Warriors.

Yeah, I think it's a good move.

I think, I mean, he's made the Warriors relevant.

The last time they were relevant was the 70s.

And he's really made them, you know, household name.

Everybody knows the Warriors.

Everybody knows Steph.

And I think it's a good move.

You've got to keep him.

It's a guy you want hanging in the rafters.

You want that jersey in the rafters.

And you want him as the, you know, all-time warrior that was the warrior for his whole career.

So I think it's a good move.

And I think you'll see him be there all the way through, hopefully.

All right, our last headline.

Disney-owned channels, including ESPN, are now dark on DirecTV, the number three distributor in the U.S.

after parties failed.

They failed to reach a new agreement by September 1st, expiration of the prior contract.

Griggs, there were a lot of people that wanted to watch U.S. Open, that wanted to watch college football.

And they weren't able to do it this past weekend because they have DirecTV.

This is reason number 3,658 why you and I have YouTube TV.

And we went to YouTube TV a long time ago.

The satellite providers.

The cable providers.

I just don't trust them.

And, you know, now with the football season started, and you've got Monday Night Football,

and you've got the Manning cast and things like this, if you have DirecTV, you're not going to be able to get these things.

You're not going to be able to watch the last weekend of the U.S. Open.

So, terrible timing.

This is always, you know, the big losers in this aren't the parties that are arguing.

It's the fans.

It's the customer.

And I saw so many posts on my timeline this weekend of people saying, that's it.

I'm out on DirecTV.

I'm going to YouTube TV or I'm going, you know, to a different provider because I can't have this happening every year where they're having these disputes.

So, if you have DirecTV, I'm sorry for you.

Griggs and I made the change to YouTube TV.

YouTube TV is not a sponsor of this show.

I just don't really have to.

I just don't really have to worry about the disputes with them and, you know, can watch what I want to watch uninterrupted.

And I think that's what most people want.

So, you know, we talked a lot last week with Andrew Marchand about the carriers and the regional sports networks and, you know, why leagues like the NBA are doing deals with certain media partners.

But this is just another one where the fans lose, Griggs.

Yeah, it's the worst thing ever.

I just can't stand it.

We all, you know, pay for this.

The service to watch and you're expecting to see it every single week and to turn your team on and watch the game.

And then it's always this, oh my gosh, my blacked out game or I can't see this channel.

And it's just, it totally destroys the, you know, the watching the viewer experience.

And it's a joke.

It's ridiculous.

It's still happening.

I mean, figure it out, guys.

And like you said, YouTube TV has been great.

And you get every game that you want pretty much.

And I'm sticking with it.

And guess what?

DirecTV and the cable providers don't do.

They don't come to you.

And say, you know what?

You didn't get your ESPN channels and Disney channels this month.

We're going to give you a refund for the month.

Right.

They just keep charging you.

Hey, tough luck, consumer.

Tough luck.

This is like, I got to say this because it just, it blew my mind.

I'm flying this upcoming weekend and I'm flying Alaska Airlines and I like Alaska Airlines.

And I'm an MVP on Alaska Airlines because I fly a lot.

They send me an email saying, would you like to change to one of these flights?

Clearly, they're overbooked.

Briggs, guess what the incentive was for me to change flights?

Take a guess.

An extra bag of crackers.

No, that would have actually been more value.

So seriously, take a guess.

What do you think it would motivate someone to change?

Oh, I have no idea.

$100 voucher.

$25 voucher.

Oh, memo to the airlines.

You can't buy a drink on a flight now for $25.

Maybe you can get to $25.

I don't think I would move my flight for $250, like add a zero in front of it.

Yeah.

But $25, no one is going to change flights for $25.

So if you're going to overbook, which most of the airlines do, and then you're going to ask people to,

adjust their schedule to accommodate the flight load, you've got to offer more than $25.

Yeah.

$25 is not going to do it.

What is this, 1975, where you could go to a movie for $0.50 and fill up your car for $5?

$25 means nothing today, especially when you're rearranging your schedule and moving from one flight to the next.

So whether it's DirecTV.

Or the airlines.

Please understand the consumer and the consumer's mindset a little bit more.

It's a competitive landscape out there.

If you're going to get us to change our mind on something, we need refunds from DirecTV for getting screwed on not having Disney-owned channels.

And we need a lot more than $25 to rearrange our schedule and change our flight.

Griggs, that's my little...

It's beautiful.

It's a beautiful rant.

And it's so true.

And look, the reason that Alaska Airlines and DirecTV exist is because of...

We're the consumers.

We're the ones paying your bills.

Like, come on.

Reward the consumer for once.

Yeah.

All right.

Coming up next, Justin Bass.

Again, I met him a few years ago.

Really bright guy.

Oversees the sports and entertainment group at MAI.

Planning for your post-playing career during your playing career.

Don't wait till the last second.

Don't wait till, well, this is my final year in college.

Or this is my final year of playing professionally.

What am I going to do with the rest of my life?

These are questions you should be asking yourself at the beginning of your career.

I'll say just real quickly, one of the stories that struck me the most on this show in the last 20 years,

Emmett Smith, the all-time leading rusher in the NFL,

told us a story of how he used to sit in Cowboys owner Jerry Jones' office

and listen to him conduct his business calls when he was a rookie.

He interned for Roger Staubach when he was a rookie.

He didn't know.

He didn't know he would play beyond one year in the NFL.

And this is the player that turns out to be the NFL's all-time leading rusher.

He was already thinking ahead to how do I leverage my relationships during my career as a Dallas Cowboy

and turn them into what I'm going to do with my post-playing career.

He mapped it out masterfully.

We're going to talk about that next.

You're listening to Sports Business Radio.

We'll be right back.

Hey, everyone.

Brian Berger here.

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Now, back to Sports Business Radio with Brian Berger.

From Maria Sharapova to Emmett Smith to Cal Ripken to Candice Parker,

I've had many athletes join me on Sports Business Radio over the last 20 years

and discuss how they planned for their post-career during their playing careers

when they were most relevant and had the best access.

I like to call these athletes athlete CEOs.

They realize that they'll be in their late 30s or early 40s

when their playing careers are over,

and they have to plan for the rest of their lives after their playing careers.

And the other element that's now in play is NIL, name, image, and likeness,

and potentially college athletes becoming employees of the university they play for at some point.

So some of these athletes may not,

they may not play beyond college.

They don't even get to the pros,

and they have to maximize their earnings during college.

So many of the strategies that we discussed today apply to them as well.

A few years ago, I had the pleasure of meeting Justin Bass

at the Players Technology Summit in San Francisco.

It was a gathering of world-class athletes, entrepreneurs, and investors.

Justin is managing director in the sports and entertainment group at MAI.

He's in there.

He's in the Northern California office.

He is a 30-year industry veteran.

He works with high net worth individuals.

Justin, thanks for joining me on Sports Business Radio.

How are you?

I'm great, thanks.

And thanks for having me.

Been a big fan of the pod ever since we met a couple years ago.

So it's exciting to be here talking to you.

Thank you so much.

I want to spend today talking about kind of the phases of an athlete's career in life.

And like I just said, you know, this is starting earlier and earlier.

For instance,

I'm in Oregon and in Oregon,

high school athletes can take part in name, image, and likeness.

This is happening more and more.

Players are coming into big wealth at an early age.

And not all of them think about the implications of their wealth.

And, you know, even 30 years down the road when they're playing careers may end,

you work with a lot of these athletes.

And I just wanted to kind of start with when you're,

speaking with your clients and the people you work with,

how do you get them in that mindset of seeing the big picture and you may just earn,

you know, a lot of money for a short amount of time and you've got to make this last the

rest of your life?

Yeah, it's funny.

You know, when you start working with these athletes that might be 18, 19 years old,

kind of coming out of college, let's say after one year and now even earlier in NIL,

um, I will raise the fact that we're going to start talking about,

about retirement before you even sign your first contract.

And I often get a crazy look thinking, God, I haven't even started my career.

Why are we talking about retirement?

And I think that kind of hones in on the exact point you're making,

which is it's never too early to start thinking about it and planning for it.

And, you know, in that vein, athletes, be it collegiate athletes or high school

athletes that are getting a lot from NIL or professional athletes for that matter,

are never going to have more access than.

When they are at the height of their careers.

And it's amazing how many doors will open to them simply by reaching out if they try.

So one of the things I talk about aside from putting the money away is to really

start planning early, developing relationships and cultivating life skills, and really

taking advantage of networking and maximizing opportunities, because nobody's going to

turn down your phone calls when you're the star quarterback for a university.

ABC or when you're the, you know, starting quarterback for whatever the professional team is.

So, you know, it's really a matter of starting to educate the athletes on how to think about

the transition into the next chapter before they even really got started in this first chapter.

Two great examples I'm going to cite of guests who have been on this show and very

recognizable world-class athletes. So the NFL's all-time leading rusher, Emmitt Smith, he told me,

that when he was a rookie, he didn't know if he'd play beyond one year for the Cowboys.

So he used to go sit in Dallas Cowboys owner, Jerry Jones's office and listen to his business

calls to hear how he conducted business. And he also interned for former Cowboys quarterback,

Roger Staubach to learn about real estate development. The other example I would cite

is Candace Parker, who recently retired from the WNBA. She knew that she wanted to go into

broadcasting.

So what did she do during her career? She became a broadcaster with Turner Sports,

the NBA TV, and she set herself up for her post career. I think what you say about building those

relationships during your career, when you're relevant is super important. Do you find that

most athletes are open to doing that? Or did they say, well, I'm too busy. I got practice.

I got all these other things going on. I think it really varies. I think that,

sometimes I'm the first one to bring that concept up to them. To your point,

they're so focused on practicing and training and trying to get to that next level or maintain

once they've gotten there, that they really focus all of their energies on whatever their sport may

be. But I think, you know, one of the points you made about both Emmett and Candace that resonates

is that I try and tell my clients that it's critical to think about what are you passionate

about your career? If you have a good career, what are you passionate about? And if you have a good

career, what are you passionate about? And if you have a good career, what are you passionate about?

A good career may last 10 years, give or take. And that's if you're really achieving tremendous

success. But one of the things that I encourage them to think about is, okay, when you're done

playing, what is it that you might want to pursue? And it's easy for people to kind of default into

staying in their sport. Maybe I want to coach, or maybe I want to go into broadcasting, or maybe I

want to go into the front office, just because those are natural extensions of what they've known.

And some people do that.

I have tremendous success, of course. But I think that the examples that you gave are really

illustrative of what I'm trying to do with my clients, which is to step out of your comfort

zone a little bit, challenge yourself, and see what's out there in this vast world. Because

you never quite know what you're going to love until you try it. And it makes me think of a

specific example. There's a client that I work with still, and he's a retired football player.

And, you know, he always kind of had a passion,

for the arts. And he didn't really know what he was going to do with himself after he retired.

But I remember when he retired from football, he went to a film school and learned how to

make documentary films. And he played in that arena for a while, and then really just fell

in love with the film, with photography. And he is an amazing photographer. But I think,

you know, that's an example of somebody who was kind of thinking about passions beyond the place,

playing field at an early time so that by the time retirement came, he was ready to go into

the next chapter. It's so interesting. I'm old school like you. I've been in the industry for

a while too. And when I first came in, athletes were investing in restaurants, clothing labels,

record companies. It was all the high risk investments and those were fun.

Now we see, like you said, documentaries, content. I think of someone like Andre Iguodala,

who we met at the Players Tech Summit and is a great entrepreneur, has invested in things like

Zoom. Some really smart athlete CEOs out there who are doing things. If you're having all of

these proposals come across your desk as an athlete, how do you decide this is high risk?

I think Andre said, if you back three out of 10 with investment proposals,

that come across your desk, you're doing well. It's like Major League Baseball. If you're a 300

hitter, you're doing pretty well. How do you help manage all of this?

Well, I think if you're playing in the venture space, three out of 10 is more like a home run,

actually. I would say that maybe if you hit one out of 10 in the venture space,

then that's pretty good. But it's interesting, to your point, when I started doing this 30 years

ago, like you said, they were comparing what kind of cars they're driving, what kind of clubs and

restaurants they're going to. And I think that's a really good point. I think that's a really good

point. I think that's a really good point. I think that's a really good point. I think that's a really good

they're investing in. And now it's great to see these athlete entrepreneurs talking about

what companies they're investing in. And I think the way to help do that is to help educate along

the way. I think two of the biggest areas that for the 30 years I've been in the business have been

kind of areas of need are financial literacy and career transition. So this conversation is very

relevant. And I think just looking back over the last 30 years, we've come a really long way in

both regards. And I think that's a really good point. I think that's a really good point.

But there's still a long way to go. And I think that, you know, having a good team around whoever

the athlete is, is of critical importance, because not only are you helping your client

evaluate opportunities, but hopefully, presumably, you're educating them along the way. And I think

that's a huge part of what I focus on with my clients, which is trying to not tell them what

to do, but trying to explain to them, you know, what are the considerations? What are the pros

and cons? And then let me give you the information to make sure that you're able to do that.

From where you sit, and again, someone who's been in this industry a long time, if I'm an elite

athlete, maybe starting as early as high school, but more likely in the pros, who do I need on my

team? I think you need to have a good, reputable financial advisor. I think you need to have a

very good CPA. And some of these could be overlapping. I think you need to have an

attorney. Obviously, you want to have an agent for your on the field or endorsement stuff.

But you really just need a trusted group of professionals that have experience in the space.

And I think what you don't need, I think is almost a more important question, which is you don't need

a yes person. There's enough people telling our clients, buy this house, buy this car,

buy this jewelry. You can afford it. It will look great on you. This is a can't-miss investment.

And the reality is there's very few people in the inner circle who are there to say,

hey, wait a minute. No, that's not what you're looking for. That's not what you're looking for.

You're looking for the right people. You're looking for the right people. You're looking for the right

people. You're looking for the right people. You're looking for the right people. You're looking for the right people.

That's not a good idea. And you have to establish a certain level of trust and respect with the

client so that they're willing to listen. And in fact, it's funny because I had a client

send me an opportunity recently. And then he texted me, what do you think about it? And I said,

not a big fan. And he texted me back saying, you never like what I send you.

And I said, well, let's look at the source. Where are these opportunities coming from?

And I think that's kind of the point is, you know, there are plenty of good opportunities

out there, but there's a whole host of horrible opportunities. And so having the right

professional team, getting back to your question, is critical and not just advising the client,

but educating the client on the questions that they can ask.

So we've talked about who should be on your team. We've talked about the importance of

planning for post-career during your career. Like I said earlier, high school, college athletes,

name, image, and likeness. You're in this space.

Um, you know, what I find is a lot of the young athletes, they may sign away their rights and not

even know they're signing away their rights. How can they be on top of things when really

they haven't gone through their full education yet or taken the classes needed to understand

this space? It's a great question because as I tell people that I'm pitching business to,

you don't know what you don't know. Right. And then you don't know if,

the person who's trying to tell it to you knows what they're talking about or if they're

trustworthy. Um, but I think it comes back to the same similar answer, at least to what I just said,

which is you need people who know what they're doing. And in this case, I would say an attorney

is probably even more important than the financial advisor. I mean, the financial advisor is

important for tax purposes and the CPA and putting some of that money aside and saving for investment,

but you really need somebody who understands the subtleties and the nuance of the contract to help

explain what it is that you're agreeing to, what rights you're giving up because it's the wild west

out there right now. And I have seen some horrendous contracts, um, set my way to review for

prospects and clients. And, you know, if they weren't reviewed by someone who is a lawyer, I

happen to have a law degree as well. So I think that helps me in doing my job for my clients.

Oh yeah. But I think that, you know, a lot of the time, you know, they get sent a agreement from the

third party collective or the school.

Speaker 2

Speaker 1

Whoever it is. And this is the form agreement and it's absolutely one sided. So if the athlete

doesn't have the right team in place to help them evaluate it and understand the ramifications of

the language, they're going to find themselves in a really dangerous position without throwing

anyone under the bus. Give me an example of a one-sided contract or things that may be asked

for by the collective or a third party for a young athlete. And the athlete, again, is just

so excited to be getting paid there. They can't wait to sign the contract. And then they find out

later, wait a minute, what rights did I just sign away? Yeah. I mean, I, I laugh back thinking of my

college days when one of my very dear friends was a football player at UCLA and he got suspended for

accepting a bag of groceries at his house. And now here we are guys, you know, men and women out

there getting paid millions of dollars. But, um, you know, I think one of the first things is

exclusivity. Um, are you giving away your rights? Are you giving away your rights? Are you giving away

exclusive rights to this third party? And then of course, what are the rights to terminate the

agreement? They may be extremely one-sided. And so it may be that you have effectively no way of

getting out of an agreement, but you know, the other party can get out for any number of reasons

and depending on what rights you've given up, that may preclude you from entering into another

agreement with, you know, a different school or collective if you move. So, um, just the nature

and scope of the rights, I would say are probably the biggest,

red flags where I've seen some onerous turns. Yeah. I mean, I've heard of contracts too,

where you're signing away your name, image, and likeness in perpetuity. Like, you know,

they own that company that you signed with in college or high school can use your name,

image, and likeness forever. So that's not good either.

Right. I mean, there's supposed to be laws in place, you know, that limit the duration of NIL

contracts. But again, it's a question of, you know, is anyone reading this and then

the enforceability of it. And so.

So even if the courts might come in and protect you later, it still could be a lot of hassle,

headache, and expense fighting it. And you may be so caught up in the fight during your couple

years of your earning window that you lose that opportunity. So, you know, there's just a lot of

things that really need to be understood before someone signs their name to something. But to your

point, you know, if you're a young high school or college athlete and someone offers you 10 or 20

grand, that's a lot of money. Yeah.

You are a well-educated person. You went to UCLA. You went to University of California.

I'm talking to more and more athletes that are saying there are starting to be classes at the

university they're attending that deal with name, image, and likeness. And it's not just a general

business course. It's specific to NIL. Are you hearing this as well? I am. Definitely. I think

that as we've observed over these first couple years of NIL, it's the wild, wild west. And you've

independent organizations that are providing financial literacy and education to schools.

You have certain banks and financial advisors entering into partnerships. And you're also

seeing the schools themselves creating these classes to be taught by, you know,

a professor or an adjunct coming in to help educate the student athletes on these exact

points. Because, you know, the schools are realizing that it's incumbent upon them to

protect their athletes. And so, you know, I think that's a lot of money. And I think that's a lot of

money. And if they don't do a good job of doing that, it may result ultimately in, you know, the

athlete losing eligibility and ultimately the school ends up suffering from that as well. So

I think there are certainly, you know, their own selfish motives for doing things. But there's also

the altruistic motive, which is it's important and it should be done. Yeah. A little over a year ago,

I went to Duke University and I went inside the Duke men's basketball program. And, you know,

I was shocked that 14 of the 15 students were doing that. And I was shocked that 14 of the 15

players have agents. And, you know, you just see how much the landscape has changed, like you said,

from the days of accepting groceries to now everyone's out there, everyone has an agent and

is represented, especially at these elite programs. It seems like these athletic departments are

adding general managers to football and basketball. They're also adding someone who deals specifically

with name, image and likeness in their athletic department. Yeah, it's an interesting point,

which I was literally just having this conversation with somebody who I'm very close to at one of the

Big Ten schools. And he was explaining to me the staffing that they're currently working on bringing

in for this exact role. And, you know, it's kind of like the great arms race out there where you've

got this school, these institutions that have tremendous donors and people that are willing

to support the school. But there has to be some sort of centralized oversight, right? Because

the schools,

need to make sure that they're out there recruiting. And if school X has a war chest

and a general manager out there telling the prospect that they can help facilitate all

these deals and school Y is kind of disorganized and either lacks the resources or the staffing,

then there's going to be another differentiator by one school looking much more appealing than

another. So I think that, you know, the way I think about it as someone who gets asked all

the time by young lawyers, how do you break into the business? I say, you know, NIL,

it is a huge opportunity because there are a number of new jobs being created in the space,

both from the compliance side, but also from the general manager side, and then somebody to help

oversee the contract language and such. So, I mean, it's definitely growing and I think it's

very exciting. Well, and if done right, it's a huge recruiting advantage. So I look at a school

like LSU. So Jane Daniels, Joe Burrow, Jamar Chase, Livvy Dunn, Paul Skeens, these are all,

who have been part of the big collective at LSU. Angel Reese. Yeah, Angel Reese. That's right.

All been marketed to the hilt. It helps them with endorsement deals when they become

pros because they're very marketed and well-known because of NIL deals. I also am in Oregon and I

look at the University of Oregon and, you know, recently Phil Knight came out and said,

unlimited funding for whatever Oregon needs.

In order to win a championship because he's in his mid-80s and I'm sure he wants to see the Ducks

win a championship before he dies. So when you see those types of situations, it's got to give

those schools a recruiting advantage over other schools, right?

Absolutely. A hundred percent. I mean, I remember reading the same article about Phil Knight thinking

to myself, wow, like this is a complete boon for the University of the Athletic Department to be

able to go into any pitch meeting. And, you know, I think it's a great opportunity. I mean, I think

know that that will be at your disposal and it's hard to compete with that.

Well, and I look at like Sabrina Nescu, who is a star with the New York Liberty.

She played at University of Oregon. They developed a shoe for her there. And now her shoe is wildly

popular, worn by women and men. And, you know, she created that relationship with Phil Knight and Nike

while she was at that school. So you talk about creating relationships while you're at the peak

of your powers, so to speak. And I think that's a great opportunity. And I think that's a great

opportunity to speak. And you can even do that in college now. It used to be, again, Emmett Smith,

Candace Parker, you're doing that when you're a pro. Now you're doing it in college.

Yeah, that's exactly right. I mean, that's a perfect example. And, you know, I think she is

still very young and going to have a wonderful career ahead of her as long as she stays healthy.

But she's putting herself in a position I'm sure her and her team are talking about the importance

of cultivating these relationships. And I think that that's exactly the role model and the example

that other.

aspiring athletes want to look to? Again, I don't want to put you on the spot and maybe

you can name clients or not, but who are some athletes today? Again, I have this term athlete

CEO. I've already named some of them who have been on this show. Even someone old school like

Cal Ripken who came up in the 80s, but was on with me recently and talked about, here's all

the business people that I wanted to be around when I was a player so that when I was done,

I knew how to be a top-notch business person. Are there athletes out there that you see

that are athlete CEOs that you would use as an example?

Oh, absolutely. I think I'll speak more generally than talk about specific clients, but

a name that comes up a lot about a lot of basketball clients and a name that I hear

all the time is Junior Bridgman. Obviously, he had a very nice NBA career, but he's gone on to

an amazing career in franchisees.

Franchising. He's somebody that I know a lot of NBA players consult with. I think the NBA or the

MBPA brings him in to actually make presentations to active players just to introduce them to the

concept of franchising. That's a great example. I think you look at the Manning brothers. They've

got all kinds of different businesses going on. They were putting themselves in a position during

their playing years. Certainly, LeBron goes without saying as a prime example.

There's a whole host of athletes. You can look at every sport and probably find a couple, but

those are a couple that come to mind right off the top. They're doing it right.

They all had successful careers, certainly, but they took advantage of the opportunities

so that when their playing careers ended, they had the next thing. It's interesting. When I think

about it, we started talking about some of the challenges of retiring from playing and heading

into retirement.

It's an emotional journey, which is filled with financial and emotional considerations.

There's a lot of moving parts there. The way I like to think of it and describe it to my clients

is that instead of thinking about it as retiring, it's really just thinking about what's the next

chapter. Instead of looking at it as, God, I'm no longer going to be playing sports,

think of it as this is an opportunity for you to grow in other areas.

Much of that is a mindset. Some people are much more able to do that than others. I think

a lot of it really starts with that mindset. Again, it goes back to starting early because

I think we both know the reality is most people's careers end earlier than they think or hope it

will, whether it's injury, loss of skill, or any other number of things. There are some clients

who say, I'll figure all the retirement out with the next contract.

I always say, hey, look, there is no guarantee that there's a next contract. Any money you're

making today, you should assume is the last money you're going to make. If you have the good fortune

to get another contract, then great. We'll deal with that then. I think a lot of it just has to

do with really thinking about it the right way from an early age.

Just to close the loop on some of the other athletes, like you mentioned, LeBron has done

it well for a long time. Michael Jordan really laid the blueprint for this era. Magic Johnson

has done-

Jack, of course. He's a legend.

Steph Curry, Serena Williams, Maria Sharapova, who's come on my show.

Those are some of the ones that are, I would say, a little bit more modern day athlete.

Obviously, sports marketing and sports agencies really started with a handshake agreement with

Arnold Palmer back in the day, and Mark McCormick, and IMG. They really revolutionized

how you looked at athletes. I've had David Falk on this show.

He represented Michael Jordan and Patrick Ewing and Coach K and many others. It was funny. He said

he took the tennis individual sport athlete approach, even with team players like Michael

Jordan, to have their own products, shoes, things like that. Going to what else you said there

about planning for retirement, it's such an important point.

It used to be, when we didn't have the athlete CEOs, it was like, you retired, and the next week,

you're picking the kids up from school. You're hanging out at home more. Maybe you're playing

some golf. Now, with these athlete CEOs, they've laid the groundwork during their career. They're

pivoting to, okay, here's what I'm doing in the next chapter, as you said, where I'm either being

a broadcaster, I'm an entrepreneur, or I've got a variety of investments.

It just seems to be a lot more well thought out. One of the reasons I really wanted to start

this show 20 years ago is I got tired of the narrative about the dumb jock and the dumb

athlete. I'm like, you know what? I actually know some pretty smart, savvy athletes out there who

are doing it better. Let's change that narrative. Let's bring some of those folks on. I feel like

we have for 20 years. Do you feel like that narrative is changing?

Absolutely. I think it's changing.

I think that the level of sophistication and interest of the athletes is growing tremendously,

the whole athlete CEO thing. Obviously, Andre is a great example of just how many things he's

involved in. I also think that if we step back and think about the process, or let's call it

turning to the next chapter, as I mentioned earlier, you've got both financial and emotional

considerations to think about as the athlete. Some of these things you just referenced,

but are they going to change? Are they going to change? Are they going to change? Are they going

to change? Are they going to change? Are they going to change? Are they going to change?

Are they financially secure such that they can pursue a passion project because they love it,

not because they need a paycheck? Just because they may be financially secure, by the way,

doesn't always mean that the transition to retirement is easy. There's still a whole

host of other considerations. There's the loss of identity and sense of purpose. Who am I?

You're an athlete. Well, you are an athlete, but that's what you do. It's not who you are.

It's a great part of what you do. It's a great part of what you do. It's a great part of what you do.

And help get you to this next point. But there are a number of athletes who struggle with that

when they retire, just from a mental health perspective. Even if they were at the top of

their game, there's this grief of, gee, I don't know who I am or what to do when I wake up

tomorrow. To your point, maybe they're taking the kids to school, but maybe they find themselves at

home and they've been married to someone for 10 years, but they've spent so little time at home

that they have to figure out, do we really like each other? 10 years ago, we did. Suddenly,

you're around all the time. So I think the impact on home life is an important consideration.

And then the other thing too is athletes are used to having very structured schedules.

And it can be very challenging to go from that to having a lot of free time and being so

unstructured. And some people are better equipped than others at handling that. Some people need

help to figure that out. And I think that's, you know,

maybe a segue into, gee, there is a lot of help out there. If you're willing to ask for it,

or if you're knowing where to look for it, that there's a lot of career transition coaches and

mentors and peers, even some of whom we've mentioned that I think are great resources.

You're listening to Sports Business Radio. We'll be right back after this.

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Now, back to Sports Business Radio with Brian Berger.

How do the players associations do in your opinion? You know, we see the rookie seminars and,

you know, I find it funny. They sit with you, you know, for a few hours

for one day at the beginning of the year, and they expect that you're just going to retain a

whole that knowledge for the rest of your career. And, you know, this is where like coaching people

up on a consistent basis, whether it's people like yourself or agents or whoever, I think it's

really important because again, these are young people and they need to be coached up. But how do

you think the players unions do when it comes to providing, you know, whether it's financial

literacy education or, you know, hey, you're going to be retiring soon. Here's the best ways

to integrate into retirement.

Great question. I think that ties into a point I made earlier about, you know, the two areas that

I have seen the biggest needs with the financial literacy piece and the career transition.

And I do think that each of the leagues and players associations have taken good affirmative

steps to improve that. But I also think there's a long way to go. By way of example, the MBPA has

their off the court program, which, you know, has a specific focus on transitioning players

from their professional career to their career. And I think that's a good way to go. And I think

that's a good way to go. And I think that's a good way to go. And I think that's a good way to go.

into retirement. And so they might offer a number of different kind of services or offerings where

they have entrepreneurship programs or tech and real estate programs. You know, Broadcaster U has

been a very successful program for Shaq and Richard Jefferson and others and, you know,

coaching and leadership programs, leadership for like maybe getting into the front office.

So I do think that they're trying and they're making strides. I also happen to know that

there's a lot of challenges. And I think that's a good way to go. And I think that's a good way to go.

It's hard at a number of different levels. I think sometimes there's a question of allocation

of resources. I think sometimes there may be a disconnect, you know, for example, between like

the MBPA and the retired basketball NBA. And, you know, you would think that the MBPA who has

current players and then the retired national basketball players group, you would think that

that would almost be like a nice pipeline to work together. But, you know, over the years,

from things that I've been doing, I've been doing a lot of things that I've been doing,

from some folks internally, you know, I was surprised to hear how independent those are.

And in fact, I don't know that they would be competing per se, but they really didn't share

that much information, even as simple as contact information. And so maybe it's improving. I know

that it's talked about a lot. There's a lot of pressure. But the other part of it, too, is if

you think about the MBPA in this instance, their constituents are active players.

And so while it is critical to prepare people for that next step, it's almost like once they're

out of the league, they've graduated on from that. And so suddenly, you know, they're on to the next

group, but they're no longer in the constituency that the Players Association is intended to serve.

So I think that's interesting. I also think if you look at the NFL, maybe a slightly different

model, but you've got the trust, right, sponsored by the NFLPA. And I know that that organization,

hosts a lot of community events, networking opportunities. They provide a number of health

and wellness resources, and they offer, you know, personal and business development opportunities. So

I do think all of the major leagues, at least, are trying to get better. They're putting effort in,

and they realize there's still a ways to go. But you know what? None of this happens without us

talking about it and having conversations. And I think that's the most important thing.

You bring up such a great point. Here's a crazy idea.

How about,

the MBPA basically has, you know, the active players, but they don't have a completely

separate Retired Players Association. The retired players are also under the MBPA,

but they're just retired players. That way, everyone's in the same organization. You know,

I know the MBPA, for example, did great work a few years ago with Chris Paul and some of the

current players, making sure that the retired players got better health benefits. And that

was so important.

And I know a number of former players who so greatly appreciated the Chris Pauls of the world

going to bat for the retired players. Because look, when those retired players were playing,

the money wasn't like it is today. So they should all be part of the same organization.

And maybe you're a current player, maybe you're a retired player,

but you all have the same access to the same mentors, expertise, mental and health,

wellness. Like, it just doesn't make sense to have them as two different organizations.

Yeah. I mean, conceptually and from a common sense perspective, you're 100% right.

I think as we know, the reality of the situation is everything is driven by dollars.

Sure.

And so unless and until there is something figured out in terms of how things can be done

economically, wherein the current players get as much benefit as they're hoping to get,

and there's also enough for the retired players,

there's going to be a constant, you know, kind of give and take between where should we allocate

resources. And so, you know, I don't claim to have the answer. And it's easy to be an armchair

quarterback and point out the problems. But, you know, I think that you're on to something that,

you know, even if it's not one organization, just working in concert with one another better,

more effectively. And again, as look, we just got these new TV contracts in the NBA,

dollars are going to be huge. There will be more resources,

to be allocated for this. So hopefully, these are some conversations that are being had,

you know, behind closed doors.

I want to ask you about women's sports for a minute, because that, to me, still seems like

it's, you know, men's sports circa 1970s. With collective bargaining agreements, we just saw

a new one with the NWSL. The WNBA just got an influx of media money kind of riding the coattails

of the NBA. I and others believe the WNBA should have their own media rights agreement,

not part of the NBA agreement, because I think they, they could have gotten more money standing

on their own. But I do realize they've been propped up by the NBA for a number of years.

So it was almost like someone put it to me like a tip, like a, you know, this is payback for all

the years that we carried you. Now we're going to take a little bit off the top and we'll give you

the remainder. But, you know, like I said, Libby Dunn, Angel Reese, Candace Parker, Maria Sharapova,

Serena Williams, and so on. And I think that's going to be a big part of the NBA. And I think

there's a lot of women athletes who are doing great. Simone Biles. When are we going to start

to see more sophistication around agents and just the people who surround the women's athletes?

Because I got to tell you, and I might be ripped for saying this, but I think it's an injustice to

the women who I've dealt with when they don't have the same professionalism of representation that

the men have. It doesn't reflect.

Well on them or their teams or their leagues. But I also realized like the money's not there

to pay some of these professionals. Like if you're working for a WNBA team,

you're not going to make as much as a PR or marketing executive as you would with the NBA

team. So they're not as responsive and they're more junior level, usually right out of college.

But I see the women's game on a number of fronts, like moving very quickly. And I wonder when,

all of these things will catch up.

That's a lot to unpack.

I know, sorry.

Great points. I'm not sure what specific question to address, but I think I'll just kind of speak

off the cuff, which is first, I agree with everything you've said. I think that, you know,

the reality is the women's sports have not had the same level of respect as the men's sports.

And as a result, not had the same dollars committed to it historically.

Right.

And I think.

I think that change doesn't happen overnight, but I think like just looking at the WNBA today,

right, you've got, you know, Angel Reese and Caitlin Clark and Sabrina and all these,

these women in the league who are attaining a higher level of recognition and status

much quicker than the Diana Taurasi's and the legends, right. That Lisa Leslie's who were kind

of the pioneers and the trailblazers. Right. And so, um, I do think that,

that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that,

that it's happening. I think it's not happening quickly enough. I don't know that I would agree

with the point you made where you said that their representation isn't as sophisticated.

Um, maybe in some cases that's probably true. However, I also happen to know that

firms that I work at, um, are very committed to representing the WNBA and other female sports

as well. So, um, I, I don't think that the offerings are, are lacking in terms of being

available, but I just think that what really has to happen is advocacy, you know, conversations like

this, and frankly, you know, male counterparts coming out in support of the women's game,

um, in any, you know, in the various sports, because, you know, even when you look back to

this talker a couple of years ago, where you had the lawsuit about the women's national team,

not being paid equally to what the men were getting paid. Right. And so I do think that

there's a level of awareness today that wasn't there five years ago. And, and where it is today

is more than three years ago. Doesn't mean that they're there, but, um, interestingly, I think

NIL might actually help with that because to your point, all the people you named, right,

you know, Libby Dunn and Angel and Caitlin and Sabrina, I mean, they were becoming household

names at an earlier age. They were very, very much, um, in the, the public ethos,

be it, you know, advertising for brands and social media. And so I think that some of it has to do

with, um, the excitement of the, the product on the court or on the field or gymnastics, whatever.

Um, but also it has to do with kind of the visibility, right? I mean, Simone Biles,

like we have not stopped talking about her in, in my house for the last couple of weeks. In fact,

we were just watching the documentary about her challenges after Tokyo with our young 10 year old

son last week. And.

You know, my wife and I were just talking about the fact that like, she is such a rock star and,

and what she has done for, for the sport, but for mental health awareness and like,

just, I mean, she's amazing. And so I think that, you know, like a lot of things in this world that

should have happened sooner, um, it, it hasn't happened soon enough, but the conversations are

happening in a much more meaningful way. And, you know, I, I know, um, one of my particular clients,

who's a very successful,

high profile basketball player, um, is very, very supportive of women's sports. And he is

regularly investing his own money into women's sports properties and teams. And so I just think,

you know, it's gotta be vocalized by people that have the platform.

Yeah. And I just want to clarify, I think the women athletes at the highest level. So Caitlin

Clark, uh, Sabrina, uh, Serena Williams, like, you know, they're with the big agency,

they're with the XLs or the CAAs or the octagons, and they do a great job. What I'm disappointed in

is the athletes who may be like the fifth or sixth person on the roster and their representation

isn't as great. And I'd like to see that get better, whether it's from the team itself

or from their agent. So, um, like you said, Rome wasn't built in a day we got to, you know,

get there, but it does seem like it's happening. And that's, that's really,

really exciting. And then, you know, this same conversation applies to the women athletes.

So again, Maria Sharapova was interested in architecture and fashion and all of these

other things while she was playing tennis. She sat in on her meeting starting at 13 years old

at Nike. She learned the business as she was in it. And I think there are going to be more of

those opportunities for women to become entrepreneurs and to learn the business

while they're in it. I can only imagine what Caitlin Clark is learning right now.

Absolutely.

I, it's funny. I, I, um, have a, a in-law who grew up in the tennis space and she was one of

Billie Jean King's best friends way back in the day. And so she, she will tell us stories about

just how ahead of her time Billie Jean was. And, you know, it's, it's amazing, but it's also sad

that it has taken so long to get here, but I do feel a groundswell coming between the NIL,

between the Olympics, between the success of the WNBA in particular,

women's national soccer. Like suddenly there's a lot of conversations happening around women's

in a number of different capacities. And I feel like the energy is, is growing. So now we need

to see the dollars kind of follow that. So we've talked about a number of things in this

conversation as we get ready to wrap, you know, planning for your post-career while you're

playing, finding mentors and learning different businesses while you're playing, educating

yourself, surrounding yourself.

With a team of experts who know what they're doing and who won't just always say yes.

What are some other things? Is there anything that we've left out of this conversation that

you're like, well, I want to make sure that we mentioned that too.

Well, thinking about the original theme and topic about heading into retirement or what I like to

think of more as the next chapter, I would challenge each athlete, whatever level they're at

to think about what skills,

did you possess that enabled you to succeed in your sport that will then help you succeed in

the next chapter. And whether it's, you know, great teamwork, whether it's leadership, whether

it's having a tremendous work ethic, being more prepared than the next person. I think all of those

skills, right. Are, are transferable. And I think that, you know, there will be challenges along

the way. You have to be able to embrace resilience and be adaptable,

but I do think that whatever you're gaining from your sport, while you're playing have life

lessons that can be applied for whatever comes next. And so just kind of being open-minded to

that and, and, you know, being okay with struggling along the way, but not being afraid to reach out

for help because there's someone who's been through it before. And there's somebody who's

attained success that would love to share that experience with you.

As you've shown during this conversation, you're a tremendous thought leader in this space.

If people want to follow you on social media or keep up with you, what are the best ways for people

to do that? I'm on Twitter and LinkedIn and Instagram. And I think actually to that point

real quickly, LinkedIn is an invaluable resource just as a final thought. And when it comes to

reaching out and networking it's really cool.

To see a lot of current athletes who are on there and who are making use of it as a business

networking tool during their years. It goes back to what we were saying earlier about,

you know, never will more doors be open to you than when you're at the height of your career.

And, you know, I I'm often, you know, impressed with some of the people I see on there. And it's

really cool to see them reaching out to thought leaders wanting to pick your brain about how

to do certain things.

So I think for any level, be it high school, college or professional kind of getting comfortable

with that medium and not being afraid to reach out and use it.

Yeah, it's such a great piece of advice. You know, someone who's popping into my head right now,

who's also been on this show, Malcolm Jenkins, two-time Super Bowl champion, great business

person. I see him on LinkedIn all the time and I'm like, this guy won two Super Bowls and he's on

LinkedIn regularly. This is fantastic. Right, exactly.

Justin Bass, managing director in the sports and entertainment group at

MAI. Thank you so much for joining me on Sports Business Radio. This has been fantastic.

Thanks, Brian. That was fun.

Talent, hard work, focus and determination got you here. Now take the right steps to prepare

for your future and ensure that you stay at the top of your game, your business, your craft.

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