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Hello and welcome back to our podcast where Audrey Zetoun, a life coach based in London,

and myself, Sarah-Jane Pasteur, family lawyer practicing international family law in England

and Hong Kong, talk about relationships, family and well-being.

and Hong Kong, talk about relationships, family, and well-being.

The idea behind the podcast is to give you advice to help you overcome the challenges

The idea behind the podcast is to give you advice to help you overcome the challenges.

related to separation and divorce, but also to married life, love life, co-parenting.

With this podcast, we offer you a wealth of information and advice on all these subjects

With this podcast, we offer you a wealth of information and advice on all these topics.

from a well-being, coaching and legal point of view.

In each episode, we share our personal and professional experience and with the help

of our guests, we hope to help you move forward in your life.

If you would like to know more about what we do

If you would like to know more about what we do.

and what we do in our lives, please visit our website.

And if you are not doing this podcast, you can go to the notes of the podcast

And if you are not doing this podcast, you can go to the podcast notes.

where you will find links to everything you need to know about us.

Let's get back to today's topic.

Today, we are talking about dating.

Are you ready to find the one?

If you have been through a divorce or other challenges in your life,

now could be the time to finally think about you and concentrate on finding the right partner.

Now could be the time to finally think about yourself and focus on finding the right partner.

But how do you go about that?

Mais comment vous y prenez-vous ?

We all know it's quite hard nowadays.

It's to find someone and I know a lot about that.

But to give you tips and advice, Sarah-Jen and I have invited Sarah-Helen,

But to give you tips and advice, Sarah-Jen and I have invited Sarah-Helen.

a senior matchmaker at Macklins, a unique dating agency with a mission to help their

clients succeed in their romantic lives.

Sarah-Helen holds a first class honor in psychology and a master's in health psychology.

Sarah-Helen holds a first-class honor in psychology and a master's in health psychology.

And following a fruitful career in stockbroking, fashion retail and luxury goods,

And following a fruitful career in stockbroking, fashion retail, and luxury goods,

Sarah-Helen started her own wellness.

Sarah-Helen a commencé son propre bien-être.

She has extensive experience coaching people to better understand themselves

She has extensive experience coaching people to better understand themselves.

and teaching them how to own their own psychological health.

and teaching them how to take charge of their own mental health.

Using a cognitive behavioral approach, she has helped, guided and supported

Using a cognitive behavioral approach, she has helped, guided, and supported.

Macklins clients with psychological tools to date successfully.

Macklin's clients with psychological tools to date successfully.

So first, Sarah-Helen, it's such a pleasure to welcome you today on the podcast.

We would love you to tell us maybe a bit more about yourself, a few words

We would love for you to tell us maybe a bit more about yourself, a few words.

and about your job before we dive into the dating world with you today.

et à propos de votre travail avant que nous plongions dans le monde des rencontres avec vous aujourd'hui.

Thank you.

Thank you so much for inviting me.

It's a real pleasure to be here.

And, you know, it's nice to hear that sort of recap.

It's things you don't really think about in your day-to-day job when you're delivering it.

So, yeah, well, I've been at Macklin, well, it's coming up to five years,

So, yeah, well, I've been at Macklin, well, it's coming up to five years.

which is a big milestone, I guess.

And it's been a really, you know, lovely addition to my wellness coaching business.

So the two have gone really well together.

So the two have gotten along really well together.

And, yeah, we basically, we work with private clients.

And, yeah, we basically work with private clients.

They are looking to find a partner.

And we kind of take, you know, take all that sort, you know, take the hard work off their hands.

So what they get back is the time.

But they also get back, you know, they also learn a lot about themselves

Mais ils reviennent aussi, vous savez, ils apprennent également beaucoup sur eux-mêmes.

and what they're looking for.

et ce qu'ils recherchent.

But also, fundamentally, you know, they do the work on themselves as well.

But also, fundamentally, you know, they work on themselves as well.

They understand who they are, you know, how their different experiences in life have shaped them.

Because that's fundamentally the first, you know, that is the first step

Parce que c'est fondamentalement le premier, vous savez, c'est la première étape.

in terms of finding, you know, a future long-term partner.

Yes, for sure.

I mean, knowing yourself is the start, isn't it?

If you don't know yourself, you can't select the right partner, I guess,

If you don't know yourself, you can't choose the right partner, I guess.

or attract the right partner.

Yeah, absolutely.

Ouais, absolument.

Absolutely.

Absolument.

And, you know, it's, you know, with the dating apps,

they've sort of changed the paradigm of how we approach relationships and dating.

They've sort of changed the paradigm of how we approach relationships and dating.

But I do fundamentally know that most people, you know, that are single, you know,

Mais je sais fondamentalement que la plupart des gens, vous savez, qui sont seuls, vous savez,

want, you know, do want to have a long-term and committed relationship.

I want to have a long-term and committed relationship.

And if they don't, then, you know, they've got lots of other avenues

And if they don't, then, you know, they've got lots of other avenues.

that they can use to find, you know, those type of relationships, you know.

that they can use to find, you know, those types of relationships, you know.

So we do predominantly work with people that are looking for a long-term monogamous partner.

So we predominantly work with people who are looking for a long-term monogamous partner.

But, you know, we, you know, that's that we, our youngest client is 20

But, you know, we, you know, that's our youngest client is 20.

and our oldest client, you know, has gone up to sort of in their 70s before.

And our oldest client, you know, has reached sort of their 70s before.

So we, you know, we try and help people that we feel that we can, you know, successfully match them.

So we, you know, we try to help people that we feel we can successfully match.

And we've got lots of, lots of ways that we can do that.

And we have lots and lots of ways to do that.

I love that.

So can you tell us a bit more about Macklin and how it is different maybe from other dating agencies?

So can you tell us a bit more about Macklin and how it is different, perhaps, from other dating agencies?

Of course.

So we are, well, first of all, we are at the forefront of what we're doing.

So here we are, well, first of all, we are at the forefront of what we are doing.

And I think that that is tantamount to two key things.

And I think that that is equivalent to two key things.

Number one is our expertise.

So most of the team have either a psychology or coaching background.

But our founder, Rachel Macklin, she's been doing this for, you know,

Mais notre fondatrice, Rachel Macklin, elle fait cela depuis, vous savez,

for a long time.

I mean, she set up Macklin 13 years ago, but she has previously been a matchmaker.

So she has, you know, there isn't anything that she doesn't know about this business

So she has, you know, there isn't anything that she doesn't know about this business.

in terms of dating relationships and helping, you know, we help people get out of their own way.

In terms of dating relationships and helping, you know, we help people get out of their own way.

So we're basically across the globe.

So we have an office in London.

We have an office in New York and an office in LA.

But, you know, I'm working with clients across Europe and Dubai.

We go as far as Singapore and Australia.

So there isn't, you know,

there isn't anything off the table.

There isn't anything off the table.

It's just predominantly our expertise really helps us really hone in on people

It's just that our expertise predominantly helps us really focus on people.

and the things that they, you know, are dealing with or struggling with.

et les choses avec lesquelles ils, vous savez, ont affaire ou luttent.

Because everyone has their own story and struggle.

But it's helping them, you know, overcome that and then find, you know,

Mais cela les aide, vous savez, à surmonter cela et ensuite à trouver, vous savez,

find the way through and find that sort of, you know, that successful partner and relationship.

And of course, there's always like that personal journey that they need to go on.

And of course, there's always that personal journey that they need to go on.

And some people may really, you know,

Et certaines personnes peuvent vraiment, vous savez,

work on themselves and know exactly what they're looking for and, and, you know,

and also know who they are and are completely ready.

But nine times out of 10, there's a lot of, you know, people need to go on the journey.

But nine times out of ten, there are a lot of, you know, people who need to go on the journey.

It's about building confidence.

It's even if just going out on a day, you know, understanding what, you know,

It's even if just going out one day, you know, understanding what, you know,

what you like about somebody, what you don't like about someone.

What you like about somebody, what you don't like about someone.

So again, sometimes it can take a little bit of time.

Other times it's, you know, it's, it's quite quick.

And I think the reason that we can deliver that service so well and so effectively,

Et je pense que la raison pour laquelle nous pouvons offrir ce service si bien et si efficacement,

is our network.

So we do have a phenomenal, huge network in place.

We check in with people on a regular basis.

We spend time with those people.

We really get to know everybody that we work with.

And we ask them all different areas of their life and lifestyle.

And we ask them about all different areas of their life and lifestyle.

And that's how we can successfully match them.

So even with a dating agency, you do have, people can go on different dates.

So even with a dating agency, people can go on different dates.

You know, they have the opportunity.

I guess you're not sending them on too many dates because that's the principle of a dating

I guess you're not sending them on too many dates because that's the principle of dating.

agency.

Versus a dating site, I guess.

Yeah.

So if we, you know, we, you know, we're still, you know, the client, we, it's, it's a very

sort of, you know, collaborative journey.

So obviously we want to know what the client wants as well, but obviously we're also there

So obviously we want to know what the client wants as well, but obviously we're also there.

to give advice and guidance and support.

And, you know, not what we do know is because of the time that we spend with each individual

And, you know, what we do know is because of the time that we spend with each individual.

person, you know, nine times out of 10, when that person, they both agree to meet, it's

going to be, you know, it's going to be a good, at least.

It's going to be, you know, it's going to be good, at least.

It's going to be, because you've got so many things in common, you won't run, you know,

It's going to be, because you've got so many things in common, you won't run, you know.

you're going to have a good conversation.

You're going to have a good conversation.

So really, once you get on that date, the, you know, you should be excited to meet that

So really, once you get to that date, you know, you should be excited to meet that.

person.

And it's all about having fun because all the difficult questions that you wanted checked

And it's all about having fun because all the difficult questions that you wanted checked.

off first have already been answered.

The first have already been answered.

And if we think about that in, you know, in, you know, as like if you were online dating

And if we think about that in, you know, in, you know, as if you were online dating.

or even if you meet someone in real life, you know, it's going to take you at least

a few days, sometimes a few months.

Sometimes a few years to have like conversations, you know, especially if it's like people that,

Sometimes it takes a few years to have conversations like that, you know, especially if it's with people that,

you know, a little bit younger, maybe they want to start a family.

You know, a little bit younger, maybe they want to start a family.

So many people just don't have those open and honest conversations at the start.

So many people simply don’t have those open and honest conversations at the beginning.

And you get to like a two year relationship and realize you're not on the same page with

And you start to like a two-year relationship and realize you're not on the same page with.

children or actually don't want to get married or that you live, want to live in a different

location.

And it's the same for people, you know, that have, you know, have coming to, we do work

And it's the same for people, you know, who have, you know, come to, we do work.

with a lot of clients that obviously post divorce, which I know is your sort of area

with a lot of clients that obviously post-divorce, which I know is your sort of area

of expertise.

So it's kind of like people have had.

So it’s kind of like people have had.

Those experiences that maybe have not worked out for one reason or another, they may not

Those experiences that may not have worked out for one reason or another, they may not.

be too, you know, they may be ready to date, but a lot of the time there's still some things

that are overhanging.

And I'm sure you've seen this with the thing, you know, with your clients and the things

And I'm sure you've seen this with the thing, you know, with your clients and the things.

that you do.

So it's just really trying to understand, you know, what that person is dealing with

So it's just really trying to understand, you know, what that person is dealing with.

and their own story and struggle, and then helping them sort of, you know, get on that

et leur propre histoire et lutte, et ensuite les aider à, vous savez, s'engager là-dedans.

date and, and it should be fun.

Date et, et ça devrait être amusant.

And it's just really, that date is just about a yet to know you.

And see if there's, you know, if that actual chemistry, that spark is there.

Obviously, it's the one thing that we can't account for.

And if we could bottle it up and sell it, then we'd all be very happy, right?

Yes.

The one very special thing we can't predict.

Exactly.

But, you know, like, you know, again, though, it's, we, we've got a proven method.

Mais, vous savez, enfin, vous savez, encore une fois, c'est, nous, nous avons une méthode éprouvée.

We take people through what we call our five steps.

We guide people through what we call our five steps.

And that starts with, you know, you getting to know you, us getting to know you.

And that starts with, you know, you getting to know yourself, us getting to know you.

And then we lean into what you're looking for in a partner.

And then we lean into what you’re looking for in a partner.

And then there's obviously deal breakers.

And then there are obviously deal breakers.

But also there's, you know, nice to haves, but things that can be compromised on or negotiated.

But also there are, you know, nice to haves, but things that can be compromised on or negotiated.

Then there's, you know, the putting the sort of putting a plan into place.

Then there's, you know, the putting a sort of plan into place.

You know, people have career goals, you know, where they set themselves, you know, this

You know, people have career goals, you know, where they set themselves, you know, this.

real, you know, trajectory of what they want.

They have finance goals.

They have financial goals.

They have goals about getting married or like, you know, like, you know, buying a house.

They have goals about getting married or, you know, buying a house.

But actually, when you look at those things,

you put into place, you know, how you're going to save money, how you're, you know,

you put in place, you know, how you're going to save money, how you're, you know,

what are the steps that you'd like to take in your career.

What are the steps that you would like to take in your career?

But actually, yeah, get married.

Mais en fait, ouais, marie-toi.

You just assume that you're going to leave it to chance.

You're going to just bump into that special person in the supermarket or, you know, at work.

You're just going to bump into that special person in the supermarket or, you know, at work.

Fantastic if that happens, of course.

But unfortunately, we know that the dating apps have changed the world of dating and

But unfortunately, we know that dating apps have changed the world of dating and

lots of other things, you know, society has changed a lot in, you know, in the last sort

of 20, 30, 40, 50.

50 years, right?

50 ans, n'est-ce pas ?

It's a big structural change.

So it's how people navigate through that, that, you know, successfully in terms of

So it's how people navigate through that, you know, successfully in terms of

their relationships.

That's what we're here for.

C'est pour ça que nous sommes ici.

There's so much in what you've just said for our listeners, because, yeah, it seems

Il y a tellement de choses dans ce que vous venez de dire pour nos auditeurs, parce que, ouais, il semble

that you really know what you're talking about and you really have everything prepared

for every kind of person who comes to see you, whatever their age.

For instance, you were talking.

You were talking about careers and all that.

So what can you tell me?

What are the expectation of somebody who's been through, you know, a long term relationship

What are the expectations of someone who has been through a long-term relationship?

and then broke up and have to go back?

Yeah.

Go back into the dating scene.

What are the expectation of somebody who's gone through a divorce and maybe who might

What are the expectations of someone who has gone through a divorce and maybe who might

be a bit afraid of going back there?

are you a bit afraid of going back there?

Of course.

And I mean, some people, you know, they're walking to our office and they are completely

ready.

Ready.

They're very excited.

Ils sont très excités.

They're open to the advice and guidance.

Ils sont ouverts aux conseils et à l'orientation.

You know, they're, you know, they're ready.

If there's anything that they can improve on themselves, they want to do that.

If there’s anything they can improve on themselves, they want to do that.

So they come in with that really positive mindset.

And that's brilliant.

Most of the most of the other clients.

Most of the other clients.

No, of course not.

Because, you know, that's a small percentage of people.

Right.

D'accord.

Because everyone has had their story through what they've been through.

If there's been, you know, something bad that's happened in the relationship, whatever that

looks like, you know, obviously the relationship has ended.

Looks like, you know, obviously the relationship has ended.

And if you've gone into a marriage, particularly if we're talking about divorce or, you know,

And if you've entered into a marriage, particularly when we're talking about divorce or, you know,

a long term partnership, inhabiting, you know, you've gone in that thinking that potentially

that's going to last the whole of your lifetime.

that's going to last your whole lifetime.

So you've first of all, people like this has failed, you know, but it's trying to get people

So first of all, people like this have failed, you know, but they're trying to reach people.

to like reset what has, you know, how can it have failed?

You've had an amazing relationship.

Obviously, there were some amazing times there.

Otherwise, you wouldn't have stayed together with this person.

Sinon, tu ne serais pas resté avec cette personne.

Of course, that's not a case story for everybody.

Of course, that's not a case story for everyone.

So, you know, if it wasn't an amazing time, but you've managed to take yourself out of,

you know, what can potentially be an abusive relationship, then again, there's still lots

You know, what can potentially be an abusive relationship, then again, there's still lots.

of things to celebrate.

So it's just, you know, we in that first sort of initial meeting, we want to try and get

So it's just, you know, in that first sort of initial meeting, we want to try and get.

to know that person, understand, you know, what their unique situation is, see how we

To know that person, understand, you know, what their unique situation is, see how we.

can help them, you know, maybe they do need a little bit more coaching or actually, you

know, even if they think, you know, they're, it looks like they might need to, you know,

savoir, même s'ils pensent, tu sais, ils sont, ça a l'air comme s'ils pourraient avoir besoin de, tu sais,

to actually go and heal.

And we, you know, we would try and, you know, we try and be as honest and transparent as

possible.

And so if they need to go and do, you know, maybe just give them that advice and guidance

Et donc, s'ils ont besoin d'y aller et de faire, vous savez, peut-être juste leur donner ce conseil et cette orientation.

about things that need to be worked on.

Sometimes those things can be worked on as well as having matchmaking because, you know,

Parfois, ces choses peuvent être travaillées ainsi que d'avoir des assortiments parce que, vous savez,

part of a healing journey can be putting yourself out there and going on dates and exploring

Part of a healing journey can be putting yourself out there and going on dates and exploring.

different people and, and seeing who you like and who you don't like.

different people and seeing who you like and who you don't like.

And again, obviously with our agency, that is the beauty.

We do have.

The opportunity to do that because we work with so many different people.

Once we've honed in on that individual's kind of preferences, then it's about putting people

Once we've honed in on that individual's kind of preferences, then it's about putting people.

together that, you know, you can explore, but maybe those people are very different

to each other because, you know, it's something that, that, you know, that individual hasn't

"les uns les autres parce que, vous savez, c'est quelque chose que, que, vous savez, cet individu n'a pas"

experienced before.

expérimenté avant.

So there's that element.

I think we also, you know, we have to, you know, we want to, we want people to be successful,

I think we also, you know, we have to, you know, we want to, we want people to be successful.

but sometimes, you know, if they've been, you know, in a past relationship and they

mais parfois, vous savez, s'ils ont été, vous savez, dans une relation passée et ils

might be holding on to resentment and anger from that relationship.

Now, obviously, you know, this is where I guess my background also helps, you know,

anger on your health, let alone your relationships.

Right.

D'accord.

And this is what we know now because of all the new research that is in play.

So, you know, trying to help people overcome that is learning forgiveness.

That's a huge element.

C'est un élément énorme.

I think that comes from post specifically post divorce, letting go, letting go of that.

I think that comes from post specifically post-divorce, letting go, letting go of that.

It doesn't serve any path.

It doesn't serve any purpose.

It doesn't.

Ça ne le fait pas.

It doesn't, you know, it doesn't help people.

It doesn't serve that person, any path.

That's really hard.

C'est vraiment difficile.

Any purpose, right?

Sometimes that can take, you know, sometimes that can be, you know, like a light bulb moment.

Parfois, cela peut prendre, vous savez, parfois cela peut être, vous savez, comme un moment de révélation.

Oh my God.

Oh mon Dieu.

Yes.

You know, like, yes, I can see that now.

Sometimes it might take a few months.

Sometimes it takes a couple of years.

It's just about, you know, identifying if you're dealing with that, you know, if with

that pain and is it still there?

But sometimes, you know, the element of going out on a date, having fun with a new person,

seeing, you know, life energy.

Seeing, you know, life energy.

In a different way, right?

Even if it's just having a drink or exploring a new restaurant, you know, doing a fun activity,

whatever that kind of looks like.

quoi que cela ressemble.

It's just getting over that hurdle, isn't it?

It's just about getting over that hurdle, isn't it?

Leaning into that discomfort, the one that we've all had, right?

It's just, you know, I can't do this.

I don't want to do this.

You know, what if they don't like me?

There's no, you know, there's no nice people out there anymore.

Il n'y a plus, vous savez, il n'y a plus de gens bien là-bas.

You know, there's lots of things that we can tell ourselves that basically aren't true,

You know, there are many things that we can tell ourselves that basically aren't true.

right?

Yes.

And I guess with a dating agency, they don't have that, you know, deception or hurt that

And I guess with a dating agency, they don't have that, you know, deception or hurt that.

you could get from online dating where it's kind of harsh, you know, sometimes when you

go back there and you could be ghosted, you could be, you know, whatever.

Go back there and you could be ghosted, you could be, you know, whatever.

But it's a tough world.

Mais c'est un monde difficile.

And my clients, often they come to me for that because they're like, I don't know what

And my clients, often they come to me for that because they're like, I don't know what.

to do.

You know, it's too hard.

And I find that maybe an agency can avoid them, prevent them from.

I think what is?

What is?

What is hard about that is that obviously once you, you know, say, let's talk about

sort of going on to a dating app.

sort of going on a dating app.

Dating apps can be successful.

Dating apps peuvent être efficaces.

Like, it's just that what happens is, and this is the problem, because they, you know,

there's so many people using them and everyone's got busy lives, right?

There are so many people using them and everyone has busy lives, right?

So someone may have, you know, go on that app, man or woman, non-binary, don't want

So someone may have, you know, gone on that app, man or woman, non-binary, doesn't want.

to exclude.

But it's, you know, you go on that app and you, with the intention of obviously, you

Mais c'est, vous savez, vous allez sur cette application et vous, avec l'intention évidemment, vous...

know, your goal.

know your goal.

But you need to be clear about what that goal is.

Mais vous devez être clair sur ce que cet objectif est.

Are you looking for a long-term relationship?

Are you looking for a hookup?

Are you looking for a situation ship?

Are you looking for a situationship?

If people were a bit more honest at the start about the actual relationship they wanted,

If people were a bit more honest from the beginning about the actual relationship they wanted,

so much pain would be seen, right?

All the relationship people would find each other.

All the people in relationships would find each other.

So that comes from being honest with yourself and putting it out there.

Write your profile with like meaning and intention.

Write your profile with similar meaning and intention.

Like, if that's what you're going to use.

And then if you don't get a text back, maybe that's not going to work.

Maybe that person is busy.

Maybe that child, you know, they've got kids and their child is ill.

Maybe that child, you know, they have kids and their child is sick.

Maybe they got busy at work.

Doesn't necessarily mean that it's anything to do with you as an individual, because they

don't even know you, right?

I don't even know you, right?

They don't even know you.

Now, I know there's obviously the element of, you know, you've been chatting to someone

Now, I know there's obviously the element of, you know, you've been chatting to someone.

for three months, you've had a few dates and then they still ghost you.

For three months, you've had a few dates and then they still ghost you.

And you know, that's just, that's just, that's just not very nice behavior.

But again, you can turn it into a positive.

Mais encore, vous pouvez en faire quelque chose de positif.

So if that person treats you like that, you are actually, you've had the biggest, luckiest,

escape of your life by not getting into a relationship, into a relationship with that

person.

So I know at the time it feels brutal.

It feels like rejection.

It feels like hurt, pain, but actually they've done you a huge favor because what they've

done is they've opened the door for you to then go and meet the right person.

What they've done is they've opened the door for you to then go and meet the right person.

So yeah, there is, yeah, there's a lot of, there's a lot of negative behaviors.

Sometimes it might, you know, I'd, you know, might, I'd like to think that a lot of those

Parfois, ça pourrait, vous savez, j'aimerais, vous savez, que beaucoup de ceux-là.

are not done with intention.

It's just because.

You are behind a screen.

You're not in front of that person and you don't know them.

Yeah.

And I think a lot of the time, especially like you say, you know, if you've come out

Et je pense que souvent, surtout comme tu dis, tu sais, si tu es sorti.

of a long-term relationship, you're feeling a bit fragile and obviously it can hit a bit

In a long-term relationship, you're feeling a bit fragile and obviously, it can affect you a bit.

deeper, but it's just, again, trying to maybe to detach yourself from those emotions.

deeper, but it's just, again, trying to maybe detach yourself from those emotions.

It's not about you, is it?

It's just the other person and that's, that's their, their way of functioning and it's not

It's just the other person and that's their way of functioning and it's not

nothing to do with you, you know?

So that's.

Absolutely.

Absolument.

And, you know, just talk, you know.

When you don't have an emotional connection with somebody, it's difficult to then consider

When you don't have an emotional connection with somebody, it's difficult to then consider.

how they might be feeling about that.

And again, you know, they may have just started dating as well.

Et encore, vous savez, ils ont peut-être juste commencé à sortir ensemble aussi.

And so with experience, people can learn how to actually, you know, behave a little bit.

Spot those people as well, maybe.

Maybe spot those people as well.

Go back into, you know, go back to their roots of who they are as a person, how they would

Revenir à, vous savez, retourner à leurs racines de qui ils sont en tant que personne, comment ils…

treat people, you know, in day-to-day real life, right?

Treat people, you know, in day-to-day real life, right?

Yeah.

But what I, I.

Mais qu'est-ce que moi, moi.

I'm not very familiar.

With dating agencies or dating app.

With dating agencies or dating apps.

But what I, when I listen to you, I really feel that if somebody has, hasn't been on

But what I feel when I listen to you is that if someone has, hasn't been on

the dating scene for a very long time, the agency, Macklin, really provides them with

a safe space, with really advice and you're kind of holding their hand to help them, you

a safe space, with real advice and you're kind of holding their hand to help them, you

know, go through all those little, you know, emotional obstacles that they're having.

And it's really, me listening to you, I feel it's really reassuring and it gives hope

And it's really, me listening to you, I feel it's really reassuring and it gives hope.

to people who, you know, are hesitating in going back out there that you can, you might

to people who, you know, are hesitating to go back out there that you can, you might

not find, you know, the first date might not be the right one, but you'll have a good time.

Can't find, you know, the first date might not be the right one, but you'll have a good time.

And that's basically, I think when you're going back into the dating scene, it's more

Et c'est essentiellement, je pense que lorsque vous retournez sur la scène des rencontres, c'est plus

about having, you know, getting used to meeting other people.

And all that.

And that's what you provide basically.

Et c'est ce que vous fournissez essentiellement.

Yeah, absolutely.

And because we, so what we're doing is we're doing all the screening at the, you know,

Et parce que nous, donc ce que nous faisons, c'est que nous faisons tout le dépistage au, vous savez,

at the start, right?

At the start, right?

We're really trying to understand who you are.

And then we're understanding what, you know, the type of person that you're looking for.

Et ensuite, nous comprenons quel est, vous savez, le type de personne que vous recherchez.

We put a plan into place and then obviously then you hand over that search, search to

We put a plan into place and then obviously you hand over that search, search to.

us.

So that's when we start looking for that person.

And then the last step is obviously you going on the date.

Now, what we are asking you to do is.

Yeah.

Ouais.

What we are asking you to do is, you know, go on that date with meaning and purpose,

be open-minded, you know, make an effort, you know, make time.

Be open-minded, you know, make an effort, you know, make time.

Sometimes people try and squeeze in a date and they've got work meeting and then, you

Sometimes people try to squeeze in a date and they have work meetings and then you.

know, a lunch with a friend or what, you know, and it's, you've got to, you've got to give

know, a lunch with a friend or something, you know, and it's, you've got to, you've got to give

yourself that time that, you know, that, you know, to make it a positive experience.

You've got to, you know, you've also, you know, expectation.

You have to, you know, you also have, you know, expectations.

Yes.

It's great to, you know, that you are, you know, you're working with us and then, you

It's great to, you know, that you are, you know, you're working with us and then, you.

know, you, you expect us to support you, which we will do.

Know that you expect us to support you, which we will do.

But having too high expectations, if you feel like all the dates that, you know, we're going

to be like fantastic, you know, you're going to be waiting the match or women of your dreams

To be like fantastic, you know, you're going to be waiting for the match or the women of your dreams.

straight away.

tout de suite.

Obviously it's about, you know, learning things about yourself and, and knowing that it is

Obviously, it's about, you know, learning things about yourself and knowing that it is.

a little bit of a personal journey.

Sometimes you'll get there quite quickly.

Other times may, you know, it might take a little bit longer and you know, sometimes

Other times it may, you know, it might take a little bit longer and you know, sometimes

people, you know, obviously we do as much as we can.

People, you know, obviously we do as much as we can.

In terms of screening, but unfortunately we cannot, you know, we just can't foresee

In terms of screening, but unfortunately we cannot, you know, we just can't foresee.

how someone's going to behave when they're on the date.

But at least, you know, that once you've had that day, you, you've got that support ready

But at least, you know, that once you've had that day, you have that support ready.

and waiting for you.

et t'attendant.

So you can give us the feedback, but also what is really unique about our agency is

that you can get feedback as well.

So, you know, how many times, you know, have we maybe been on a great day or, and thought,

wow, that's been really well.

Wow, that's been really good.

They're not heard from the person.

They haven't heard from the person.

I thought.

You're just sat there, you're ruminating, you're wondering, you're worrying.

You're just sitting there, you're ruminating, you're wondering, you're worrying.

You don't know what you did wrong.

Then you get angry, get a bit despondent.

Then you get angry, become a bit despondent.

You might even just give up, you know, you might just give it up altogether.

I'll stop for a few months.

Just stop it.

You know, it's not made you feel good.

You know, it hasn't made you feel good.

So it's really about, you know, one of the good things you saying about being in a safe

So it's really about, you know, one of the good things you say about being in a safe.

space is understanding how the other person is thinking and feeling, even if it's not

Space is understanding how the other person is thinking and feeling, even if it's not.

gone well, at least, you know, what was, you know, what wasn't there.

gone well, at least, you know what was, you know what wasn't there.

So then you can move on to the next phase.

If it's something that you can work on.

Maybe you slept your soup at dinner and no one's ever told you.

Maybe you spilled your soup at dinner and no one's ever told you.

Right.

D'accord.

So it's like, well, you know, this was really positive and this is really positive, but,

you know, unfortunately you slept your soup and it was just a bit out of habit.

You know, unfortunately you let your soup sleep and it was just a bit out of habit.

Right.

D'accord.

You know, I'm just being a bit like, you know, it's just a hypothetical scenario, but some,

if it's something that you can change and work on, right.

If it's something you can change and work on, right.

If you go on that date and just talk about all your terrible ex-partners and the person

If you go on that date and just talk about all your terrible ex-partners and the person.

comes in, you know, the other person comes in.

Right.

D'accord.

And the other person comes away feeling, oh my God, that was, you know, that's, you

know, that's a bit of a first date, dating faux pas.

I know, that's a bit of a first date, dating faux pas.

So we, you know, if that person feeds that bat, we can talk to you about that.

So it's trying to sort of, you know, it's helping you get out of your own way, right.

So that it can be successful.

And what we do know is that people that, you know, really sort of take that on board, don't

And what we do know is that people who really sort of take that on board don't.

see it, you know, don't see it as a huge criticism or rejection or a failure, but actually think,

do you know what?

Do you know what?

That's, that's brutal.

C'est, c'est brutal.

That's hurt a little bit, but actually as something like that, I can do, you know, that

That hurts a little bit, but actually, I can do something like that, you know.

I, that's something that I can think about.

They are the people that go on to have the successful relationships with us.

They are the people who go on to have successful relationships with us.

So when they do get in that relationship, it's about, you know, the skill set that they

So when they do get into that relationship, it's about, you know, the skill set that they

can continue to use because these are, these are transferable sort of skills, really, when

you start really kind of evaluating how, how you are behaving, how, what you're giving

You start really kind of evaluating how, how you are behaving, how, what you're giving.

out to the world, I guess.

Yes.

Oui.

No matter what the situation is.

Yes.

Oui.

And it's a journey, isn't it?

It's a learning process.

We learn as we go as well.

I mean, I've been, it's a process after, you know, and you know how to select, you know

I mean, I've been, it's a process afterwards, you know, and you know how to select, you know.

how to behave, you know what to share and when.

And I think that's such a wonderful journey.

I think it's, it's a, it should be exciting and I know it's difficult.

It could be taking a long time, as you said, but it's a journey about self-discovery as

well.

Well.

Yeah.

Absolutely.

Absolument.

Yeah.

We, we fundamentally focus on sort of nine areas of people's lives.

We fundamentally focus on sort of nine areas of people's lives.

So that's everything from career to health and wellness that, you know, their family

sort of background, you know, the values that are instilled into them in childhood, you know,

sort of background, you know, the values that are instilled in them during childhood, you know,

it's really sort of hanging on who they are.

It's really sort of dependent on who they are.

So a lot of people don't actually know what their values are, you know, what are, what

is important to them?

And they may just assume that everyone else has the same values.

Oh, you know, kindness, you know, I want someone honest, but you know, I know, you know, we

I know that, you know, we would want people to be kind and honest,

I know that, you know, we would want people to be kind and honest.

but actually that might not be that important to somebody.

but actually that might not be that important to someone.

Maybe that actually family, you know, family is more important to a person

Maybe it’s actually family; you know, family is more important to a person.

than, you know, being completely honest all the time.

You know, I don't want to, you know, it's about us understanding

You know, I don't want to, you know, it's about us understanding.

who that individual person is and how those values are reflected

in the potential person that they, you know, are going to date with

in the potential person that they, you know, are going to go out with

and potentially have a relationship with.

It's, yeah, it's really sort of about teasing that out.

C'est, ouais, c'est vraiment une sorte de teasing à ce sujet.

And there's so many different facets to values that, you know, it's, again,

Et il y a tant de facettes différentes aux valeurs que, vous savez, c'est, encore une fois,

it's, that's a, you know, a real sort of key part of our service

C'est, c'est une sorte de partie clé de notre service.

and what we deliver.

et ce que nous livrons.

It's getting someone to just go a little bit deeper into, you know,

who they are as a person and what they value.

That's so important, the values.

That's one of the first thing I do with my clients.

That's one of the first things I do with my clients.

And then they realize, oh my God, those values are not present in my life,

but they're my, you know, top three values.

You know, how can we bring them back in my life?

You know, how can we bring them back into my life?

And also that, again, post, you know, people, you know,

Et aussi cela, encore, après, vous savez, les gens, vous savez,

our clients that are, you know, post-relationship, post-divorce,

our clients who are, you know, post-relationship, post-divorce,

actually, there's a lot of people that have never even thought about it.

Actually, there are a lot of people who have never even thought about it.

And again, it's that sort of light bulb moment,

And again, it's that kind of light bulb moment,

because then they can really sort of reflect on their past relationship,

understand where the incompatibility was,

and then really hone in on what they're not looking for.

and then really focus on what they're not looking for.

Rather than going, oh, you know, she was this and she did that to me,

or he was horrible.

They can actually suddenly reflect and see,

it makes it a little bit easier for them.

So it helps them in their healing journey as well,

because you're looking at the, you know,

parce que tu regardes le, tu sais,

what hasn't worked well in the past,

and then how you would like, you know,

et puis comment vous aimeriez, vous savez,

what you would want to avoid in the future.

But a lot of the time, that's based on values.

I just wanted to ask you another question about,

you mentioned that you've got a psychology background, coaching.

You mentioned that you have a background in psychology and coaching.

So do you, would you recommend that somebody go through a coaching

So do you, would you recommend that someone go through coaching?

before?

avant ?

Before deciding to come and see you?

Do they need to prepare themselves a bit?

Do they need to prepare themselves a little?

It's difficult to say, you know,

everyone needs coaching before coming to see us,

because we don't know what that person's, you know, situation is like.

Parce que nous ne savons pas à quoi ressemble la situation de cette personne, vous savez.

We do offer day coaching.

That's an additional service.

C'est un service supplémentaire.

So we would be able to identify that in that first initial kind of meeting.

We do offer free, you know, initial consultations.

So, you know, people can, you know, come and speak to us.

You know, give us a call, you know, you know,

we'll have a phone call first of all.

We'll have a phone call first of all.

If we feel that it's, you know, we're a good fit for each other,

If we feel that it's, you know, we’re a good fit for each other,

then we can have a consultation and we can explore who that person is

and what they're looking for.

et ce qu'ils recherchent.

And then obviously then we can assess whether or not, you know,

Et ensuite, évidemment, nous pouvons évaluer si oui ou non, vous savez,

we can help that person.

And, you know, we don't work with everybody because we want to be true to ourselves.

And, you know, we don't work with everyone because we want to stay true to ourselves.

If that's somebody that does need day coaching,

If that's someone who needs daily coaching,

we will advise and guide on that.

We will advise and guide on that.

Then obviously that person can make an informed choice about,

what their next steps are.

If we are obviously then going to work together,

If we are obviously going to work together,

then it would be about deciding what the membership looks like.

Then it would be about deciding what the membership looks like.

So we typically work with clients for six months,

which is six months of active time.

And then we give people a lot of hold periods.

So they would have six months of hold.

And what we find is that because we're doing so much work with that person at the start,

Et ce que nous constatons, c'est qu'en raison de tout le travail que nous réalisons avec cette personne au début,

so there is that element of, you know, there is an element of coaching tied in.

So there is that element of, you know, there is an element of coaching tied in.

Wow.

Because people, you know,

the profiling at the start is usually, you know, around 90 minutes.

The profiling at the start is usually, you know, around 90 minutes.

We do that big deep dive into who that person is and what they're looking for.

And we're not just asking, you know, what you do for a living.

It's why did you make those decisions throughout your life?

You know, what led you to becoming, you know, a lawyer or, you know,

You know, what led you to become, you know, a lawyer or, you know,

what was your background?

What was your background?

You know, how did you, you know,

all the different kind of like trajectory that you followed.

all the different kinds of trajectories that you followed.

We want to know about your decision-making processes because your matchmaker will then,

you know, get a really good understanding of who you are as a person.

You know, family background is a huge influence in our lives, right?

Or, you know, you may have, you know, animosity or issues from things that have happened.

Well, you know, you may have, you know, animosity or issues from things that have happened.

Then maybe, you know, you may have had a really privileged, lovely, loving home life,

but actually it doesn't, it doesn't help you sometimes, you know, get into the wrong relationship.

but actually it doesn't, it doesn't help you sometimes, you know, to get into the wrong relationship.

So maybe it's past relationships that we need to dig a bit deeper into and understand what's happened there.

So maybe it's past relationships that we need to explore a bit deeper and understand what happened there.

Everything that you talk about,

um, is, is, is important.

Um, is, is, is important.

And we record, you know, we record everything, you know, with your, as in, you know,

Et nous enregistrons, vous savez, nous enregistrons tout, vous savez, avec votre, comme dans, vous savez,

we take all the notes down, we're listening, we want to understand who you are.

We take all the notes down, we're listening, we want to understand who you are.

And then we move on to what you're looking for in a partner.

And, you know, really sort of, you look into those different facets of that person's personality.

Et, vous savez, en fait, vous examinez vraiment les différentes facettes de la personnalité de cette personne.

For example, you know, if you value health and wellness, what does that look like?

Does that person, you know, you may go to yoga and go to the gym,

Does that person, you know, go to yoga and go to the gym?

whereas at the end of the day, you may go to the gym.

Whereas at the end of the day, you may go to the gym.

Whereas the other person may do, you know, train for triathlon.

Whereas the other person may do, you know, train for a triathlon.

So actually you don't do the same things, but you both value a healthy lifestyle.

And that could be, you know, or value, you know, basic, you know, there's a key compatibility aspect there.

Et cela pourrait être, vous savez, ou de la valeur, vous savez, basique, vous savez, il y a un aspect clé de compatibilité là.

Um, it may be sometimes clients come in and, um, you know, they, if they want to have, you know, children,

Um, it may be that sometimes clients come in and, um, you know, if they want to have, you know, children,

or if they want to meet somebody that's, you know, matched financially,

or if they want to meet someone who is, you know, financially matched,

those are the things that we can ask around, you know,

tend, you know, tends to be around sort of people's lifestyles.

You know, some people are happy going on holiday and staying in a tent.

Other people wouldn't do anything less than five stars.

Other people wouldn't give anything less than five stars.

Yeah, that's so important, the lifestyle, yes.

Right, exactly.

Correct, exactement.

So it's kind of like, you know, but other people would be, you know, a bit of both, right?

So I'm happy, you know, going to climb Machu Picchu and, you know, and living, you know, the rustic life.

So I'm happy, you know, to be going to climb Machu Picchu and, you know, to be living, you know, the rustic life.

But equally, you know, if I'm in Dubai, I'm staying in seven star luxury.

But equally, you know, if I'm in Dubai, I'm staying in seven-star luxury.

So it's like, it's just, you're really sort of getting a good feel of what people are looking for.

So it's like, you're really getting a good sense of what people are looking for.

Um, and I think that is, you know, when it comes to sort of coaching,

Um, et je pense que c'est, vous savez, quand il s'agit de quelque sorte de coaching,

if somebody is holding on to something from, you know, a past relationship,

then we need to identify that in that sort of initial, initial kind of meeting.

Alors, nous devons identifier cela lors de ce genre de réunion initiale, initiale.

And really sort of, then they may have a few sessions with one of our date coaches,

um, who are all qualified psychologists.

Um, who are all qualified psychologists.

Um, or.

Or they may be ready and they may just be that it's, they take on the matchmaking and they have additional sessions or if they work with one of the senior members of the team, you know, then obviously we do have a lot of experience anyway.

Or they may be ready, and it may just be that they take on the matchmaking and have additional sessions, or if they work with one of the senior members of the team, you know, then obviously we do have a lot of experience anyway.

So it may be that they just, you know, they opt to work with, um, a senior, a senior team member, and actually they get the combined sort of experience with that.

So it may be that they just, you know, they choose to work with, um, a senior, a senior team member, and actually they get the combined sort of experience with that.

That's not to say that our matchmakers are wonderful and, uh, have great success rates.

That’s not to say that our matchmakers are wonderful and, uh, have great success rates.

Yeah.

But it's.

Mais c'est.

But it's sometimes somebody might, you know, might need something that just is, is just a little bit different.

But sometimes someone might, you know, might need something that is just a little bit different.

And again, you know, it's us, it's for us to assess that and also have those open and honest conversations from the start.

So the client is well-informed, there's no pressure, you know, just sometimes people just have those consultations and then can leave that room and go off and find the perfect person just for the things that they learn.

Yes.

Because they start thinking in a different way and then actually like, oh my God.

Yes.

Oui.

Yeah.

It happens.

Life changing.

Transformational.

After an hour.

Après une heure.

Oh, actually I know now.

Oh, en fait, je sais maintenant.

I don't want to be with this person anymore.

I'm breaking up after an hour.

You know, it's often a revelation.

I mean, maybe I have just two quick questions before we finish, because I think we are, we are, we need to finish soon, but do you have a success rate?

I mean, maybe I have just two quick questions before we finish, because I think we need to finish soon, but do you have a success rate?

I mean, if people come to you, they must be like, okay, so how many people find love, you know, with Macklin?

Is there a way to find out?

Yeah.

So, I mean, we've had.

We've had marriages, we've had babies, we've worked with thousands of clients that have got into successful relationships, but even the ones that may be, you know, if we've, you know, we've worked with someone and maybe they've, you know, they've had all the introductions, they've really enjoyed the service, but maybe, you know, during that period of time, they then do meet someone in real life.

We've had weddings, we've had babies, we've worked with thousands of clients who have entered into successful relationships, but even those who may have, you know, we've worked with someone and maybe they've had all the introductions, they've really enjoyed the service, but maybe, you know, during that period of time, they then meet someone in real life.

They still, you know, technically that's not our success, but they will credit us with, you know, the guidance, the coaching, the advice.

So, even for people that, you know, there's sort of, if we have, I think it's around sort of 80 to 90% of our clients who work with us, what they, you know, we determine success by someone that puts a membership on hold to date exclusively with somebody that we've introduced them to.

So, even for people that, you know, there’s sort of, if we have, I think it’s around sort of 80 to 90% of our clients who work with us, what they, you know, we determine success by someone that puts a membership on hold to date exclusively with somebody that we’ve introduced them to.

And like I said, you know, we've had marriages, we've had babies, we've, you know, there's a lot of different aspects to success that we see, but, you know, it's about the individuals, you know, determining success.

If you, you know, you.

It's down to them as well.

C'est aussi à eux.

Exactly.

It's down to them.

It's up to them.

It's that personal journey that they've gone on.

It's that personal journey that they've embarked on.

It's the handholding and the support and the guidance and the advice.

They need to do the work though.

Exactly.

And the opportunity as well, because of our phenomenal network, we can put exceptional people in front of you, like, and, you know, people that you, you know, you are, you've asked us for, and, you know, if we're working together and we're the right fit, they will, you know, they will.

They will meet all the things that you're looking for and you will meet theirs.

That's, you know, that is the definitive sort of success.

C'est, vous savez, c'est le genre de succès définitif.

Sounds wonderful.

Yes.

I mean, maybe a quick last question before we wrap up is, would you have one tip to give to people, you know, who are looking for true love or long-term relationship?

I mean, maybe a quick last question before we wrap up is, would you have one tip to give to people, you know, who are looking for true love or a long-term relationship?

I think that, you know, the best thing you can do, obviously booking, you know, come and see us, come and have a conversation with us, book in a consultation.

I think that, you know, the best thing you can do, obviously, is to book, you know, come and see us, come and have a conversation with us, book in a consultation.

We'd love to chat to you and help you figure it out.

We'd love to chat with you and help you figure it out.

But I think even if, you know, in your own sort of dating life, it's really thinking about, yeah, think about who you are and what is important to you first before, you know, focusing on, you know, I want this, that, and the other in a partner.

Because that's, you know, that is the most important thing.

And put a plan together, you know, think about what you're going to do.

If you're not going to work with an agency, what are you going to do?

Are you going to work with a partner?

Are you going to do online dating?

Are you going to go to more in-person events?

Are you going to attend more in-person events?

You know, you need to take action.

That's what you need to do if you want something to change.

Or if you're quite happy being single, don't feel the pressure of having to be in a relationship.

You know, we've seen, you know, this is not, you know, you can also be happy single if that's, you know, what you choose to be.

There's no, like, we're not here to tell you you have to get in a relationship or wish you're not normal.

There’s no, like, we’re not here to tell you that you have to be in a relationship or that you’re not normal.

It's about being comfortable in your own skin and enjoying your life and being fulfilled.

That's what's fundamentally most important.

C'est ce qui est fondamentalement le plus important.

Help, relationships, family, you know, fundamentally, none of those things can be successful unless you are happy within yourself.

That would be my sort of final sort of word on this.

And once you are happy with yourself, normally all the other things, like, will fall into place.

And once you are happy with yourself, normally all the other things will fall into place.

But having a plan, having a strategy.

If you've decided that you want to now be in a relationship, figure out the type of relationship you want.

If you've decided that you want to be in a relationship now, determine the type of relationship you want.

If it's a monogamous relationship, be true to that.

But if it's something else, be true to that too.

Mais si c'est autre chose, sois fidèle à cela aussi.

And let other people know at the start.

And don't be scared of that.

Because if they're the right person for you, they're looking for an open relationship or just casual dating, then great.

Because if they're the right person for you, looking for an open relationship or just casual dating, then great.

You know, that's your decision.

You're saving time as well.

Right?

If that's not what they're looking for, listen to them.

Believe them.

Croyez-les.

If they have told you they're looking for...

If they're looking for casual dating and you want a relationship, believe that person and leave it.

You know, walk away there and then, which leaves you the space and time to find the right person that you're looking for.

You know, walk away from there and then, which gives you the space and time to find the right person you are looking for.

Thank you, Sarah.

Thank you so much.

It's been great.

You're welcome.

It's been a pleasure to speak to you guys today.

Thank you for coming and sharing your knowledge, your expertise, and talking to us about, you know, Macklin.

I think it's going to inspire a lot of people.

It's a very different topic, subject that we haven't really talked much about dating.

It's a very different topic, one that we haven't really talked much about regarding dating.

I think it was great to talk about it through that angle of a dating agency.

I think it was great to talk about it from the perspective of a dating agency.

And you've given us a lot of tips, a lot of advice, and I think a lot of hope for our listeners.

So that's great.

You can also follow us on social media.

So we've got our Instagram page.

It's at Macklin International.

Or myself, it's at Sarah Helen King.

You know, so we do post regularly and often.

So there's lots of hopefully dates.

So there are lots of hopefully dates.

We've got advice, tips, we've got blogs.

We have advice, tips, we have blogs.

We deliver masterclasses.

So yeah, it's definitely, you know, even if you're not going to join the agency yet, then please do, you know, link up with us.

And if you do have any further questions, I'm happy to, you know, reach me.

And if you have any further questions, I'm happy to, you know, reach out to me.

Yes, we'll put all your links on the podcast notes so people can reach out and talk to you, ask you questions, and book that initial call.

Yes, we will include all your links in the podcast notes so people can reach out to you, ask you questions, and book that initial call.

That is free, I think, that you mentioned.

Yeah, absolutely.

Ouais, absolument.

Yeah, we'd love to speak to you.

Sarah-Jane, a last word before we wrap up?

Sarah-Jane, a final word before we conclude?

Thank you for your passion because we can see, listening to you, we can hear the passion about your work.

Thank you for your passion because we can see, by listening to you, that we can hear the passion in your work.

And it's amazing.

It really is.

And it really gives a hopeful message to those out there who are looking for love.

Thank you.

Thank you so much.

There's so many avenues.

There are so many avenues.

There's so many single people still.

There are still so many single people.

You know, there is somebody out there.

It's just, you know, putting that plan, that strategy into place.

There is somebody out there.

Yeah.

For everyone.

Exactly.

There is a lot of single people out there, that's for sure.

There are a lot of single people out there, that's for sure.

Thank you, Sarah-Helen.

Thank you so much.

Thank you.

Bye-bye.

Goodbye.

Bye.

Goodbye.

Episode #94: Dating after divorce