第303回 【お便り回】一番良かった、素晴らしかったと思った本（WATA編）

どうも、わたです。

Hello, I'm Wata.

さぞです。

I see.

前々回ですね、本の紹介をすると言って、

It was the time before last, when I said I would introduce a book.

はいはいはいはい。

Yes, yes, yes, yes.

本の紹介はしたんですけども、

I introduced the book, but...

こんなに踏み回ろうね。

Let's trample around like this.

はいはいはい。

Yes, yes, yes.

ただ、全然こう、参考にならない話をしてしまって、

However, I ended up talking about something that isn't helpful at all.

なので、お便りに対するアンサー回としてやったんですけど、

So, I did this as a response to your letter, but...

全然こう、本の内容というよりは思いっきり思想の話とかに振り切った話をしちゃったんで、

I ended up talking about completely different things, more focused on ideology rather than the contents of the book.

改めてね、ちょっと本をご紹介しますよっていうのはその回でも言ってたんですけど、

I mentioned before that I would introduce a book again, but...

その回にします、今日は。

I'll go with that episode today.

なので、ちょっと1個、1、2個空いちゃって申し訳ないんですけど、

So, I’m sorry for leaving one or two empty spaces.

前回お便りをいただいたタイニーブラザーさんです。

This is Tiny Brother, who sent me a letter last time.

そうですね、はい。

That's right, yes.

人生に影響を与えた書物とかですかね、

Perhaps it’s about books that have influenced my life.

そういうところの話を聞いていただければなと思うんですけど、

I hope you can listen to those kinds of stories.

でですね、今日僕がちょっと2冊ぐらい本を持ってきたんですけど、

Well, today I brought a couple of books with me...

1冊目がですね、もうこれは非常に名調ですかね、

The first book is indeed very well-written, I would say.

フランスカフカーの変身っていう本なんですよ。

It's a book called "Transformations of the French Cuff."

これはなんとなく知ってる人が多いので、

Many people somehow know this, so...

そうですかね、もうだって何百年前の話ですもんね。

Is that so? Well, it’s a story from hundreds of years ago, after all.

僕も読んだことはありますね。

I have read it too.

すごい薄い本ですね。

This is an incredibly thin book.

そうですね、はいはいはい。

I see, yes yes yes.

中編、短編小説ぐらいな感じなんですけど、

It's about the length of a mid-length or short story, but...

ちょっと知らない方向けにも軽く、

A little lightly for those who don't know.

これネタバレとかもそういう話じゃないんで、

This isn't a spoiler or anything like that, so...

普通に話しちゃうんですけど、

I’ll just speak normally, but…

変身っていうタイトルで、

With the title "Transformation,"

この主人公がですね、

This protagonist, you see,

ザムザさんっていう主人公がいるんですけど、

There is a protagonist named Mr. Zamza, but...

普通の男性です。

He is an ordinary man.

その男性が家族と暮らしてるんですけども、

That man lives with his family, but...

ある朝目覚めたら、

One morning, when I woke up,

虫になっちゃったっていうね。

I became a bug.

虫になっちゃってましたみたいな。

It felt like I had turned into an insect.

とんでもない話なわけです。

It's an outrageous story.

口頭向けで、

For oral presentation,

ちょっとこそ言い方すると失礼ですけど、

It might be rude to put it that way, but...

虫になっちゃって、

I've turned into a bug,

虫に変身しちゃったと。

"I've turned into a bug."

変身した自分が家族と住んでるんで、

I transformed myself and now live with my family.

家族といろいろ、

Various things with family,

どうすんだ、なんで虫になっちゃったんだ、みたいな。

What are we going to do? Why did I turn into a bug?

途中ぐらいまでは自分のことを虫だって思って、

I used to think of myself as an insect until about halfway through.

信じられなくて、

I can't believe it,

いや虫にはなってない、なってない、みたいなことを

No, I'm not turning into a bug, I'm not turning into one, things like that.

言ったりするんだけど、

I say things like that, but...

結局虫になっちゃってて、

In the end, I ended up becoming a bug, and...

どうすんだ、みたいな感じの

Like a feeling of "What are you going to do?"

戦いがただただ記されていて、

The battle is simply recorded, and

最終的に、

Ultimately,

家族も家族で、

The family, too, as a family,

自分の親と兄弟と暮らしてるっていう設定なんですけど、

The setting is that I'm living with my parents and siblings, but...

やっぱり家に、

After all, at home,

でっかい虫いるわけじゃないですか。

There's a big bug, isn't there?

困るわけですよね。

That’s quite troubling, isn’t it?

取り扱いというか、

It's more about handling, or rather,

最初は心配してくれてたんだけど、

At first, you were worried about me, but...

だんだんこう、

Gradually, you know,

家族が冷たくなってきてるな、みたいな。

It feels like my family is getting colder.

察知したりとか、

Like sensing, or...

実際その家族も、

In fact, that family also,

うとましい存在になってくるんですよ。

It becomes a bothersome presence.

虫さんが、虫の形をした息子が。

The bug has a son that looks like a bug.

結局それがもう、

In the end, that's it.

自分の、

My own,

このザムザ自身も、

This Zamza himself,

それに気づいて、

Noticing that,

俺は死んだ方がいいのかな、みたいな感じになってて、

I feel like maybe I should just die or something.

結局もう心身喪失というか、

In the end, it's more like a loss of both mind and body.

食べ物を食べれなくなって、

I can no longer eat food,

衰弱して死ぬっていう話です。

It's a story about weakening and dying.

家族は家族で、

Family is family,

ザムザが死んじゃって、

Zamza has died.

悲しいっていうところもあるんだけど、

There are aspects that are sad, but...

一切死んでくれてよかったって思ってる家族っていうのがいて、

There are families who are actually relieved that everything has died.

っていう、

"That's what I mean,"

もう何のオチも何もない、

There's no punchline or anything anymore.

これだからパッと見た人は、

That's why, at a glance, people...

何だこの話や、みたいな。

What is this story, I wonder?

ヤンヤン そう、僕もね、大学生の時読んだんですけど、

Yanyan: Yeah, I read it when I was in college too, but...

よくわからなかった。

I didn't understand it well.

ヤンヤン そうでしょうね。

Yan Yan, that seems to be the case.

ヤンヤン そうそうそうそう。

Yanyan, that's right, that's right, that's right!

ヤンヤン これはね、

Yanyan, this is...

なんでかっていうと、

The reason is that,

このフランスカフカ、

This Franz Kafka,

この僕今ちょっと手に取ってね、

"Right now, take a look at me for a moment."

本持ってるんですけど、

I have the book, but...

これ表紙がカフカの写真になってるんですね。

The cover has a photo of Kafka, doesn't it?

で、

So,

ちょっとね、

Just a little,

その説明の前に話そうと思ってるのが、

What I want to talk about before that explanation is,

僕なんでこれ選んだかっていうと、

The reason I chose this is because...

実は今僕ちょっと、

Actually, right now I'm a little...

行ってるデザインの学校で、

I'm attending a design school,

課題図書みたいな、

Like a required reading book,

要はこれをデザインする、

In short, to design this,

みたいな、

Like that,

リーデザインですか、

Is it a redesign?

この本をリーデザインしたら、

If I redesign this book,

どういう表紙になるか、

What kind of cover will it be?

みたいなのをやってるんですよ。

I'm doing something like that.

ヤンヤン なるほど。

Yanyan, I see.

ヤンヤン そう。

Yanyan, that's right.

で、自分も影響を受けた本っていうか、

So, there are books that have influenced me as well,

好きな本なんで、

It's my favorite book, so...

選んでるっていうのもあるんですけど、

It's also that I'm choosing.

だから選んだっていうのは、

So what I chose is,

だから、

So,

その表紙のデザインがね、

The design of that cover, you know,

結構インパクトがあって、

It has quite an impact, and

カフカの写真が写ってるんですけど、

It's a photo of Kafka, but...

だからね、

So, you see,

これフランスカフカを知らないと、

If you don't know Franz Kafka,

何のことかよくわからない本なんですね。

It's a book that I don't really understand what it's about.

で、

So,

カフカ自身は、

Kafka himself,

すごいこう、

Amazing, like,

今で言うとちょっと、

Well, if I put it in modern terms, it's a bit...

メンヘイラちゃんというか、

It's not so much that she's a "menhera girl," but...

わりとこう、

Relatively like this,

ご存知の方も多いかもしれないですけど、

Many of you may already know, but…

なんか絶望名人っていう、

There's something called the "Master of Despair,"

あだ名があって、

I have a nickname, and

もう、

Already,

とにかく絶望してるみたいな、

It feels like I'm in complete despair, anyway.

絶望してる名言みたいなのが多い人で、

It's someone who often has quotes that feel quite despairing.

要はパラノイアというか、

In short, it's a kind of paranoia.

ちょっと精神的に病んじゃってる人で、

They are someone who is somewhat mentally unwell.

だから、

So,

この本は結構、

This book is quite...

この当時のカフカの、

Kafka at that time,

自分自身の状態を表してる本だって言われてて、

It's said to be a book that represents one's own state.

もう一つ補足で説明すると、

To add one more clarification,

ちょっと難しい言葉になっちゃうんですけど、

It might turn into a little difficult language, but...

本質的なテーマっていうのが、

The essential theme is,

これちょっとね、

This is a little, you know,

ご存知ない方も多いと思うんですけど、

I think there are many people who don't know this, but...

実存主義っていう、

Existentialism,

いわゆるこう、

So-called,

哲学の言葉です。

It is a word of philosophy.

実存主義のこともちょっと軽く話すとですね、

If I briefly talk about existentialism, then,

実存主義っていろんな哲学者いっぱいいるんです。

Existentialism has many different philosophers.

例えば有名なとこで言うと、

For example, in famous places,

ニーチェとか、

Nietzsche and,

あとはハイデガーとか、

And also Heidegger, etc.

あと、

Also,

最近で言うと、

Recently, for example,

ジャン・ポール・サルトルっていう人が有名なんですけど、

There is a famous person named Jean-Paul Sartre, but...

そのサルトルの言葉で有名な言葉があって、

There is a famous saying by Sartre that goes,

実存は本質に先立つという言葉があるんですよ。

There is a saying that existence precedes essence.

これだけで何言ってるかわからないと思うんですけど、

I think you won't understand what I'm saying just from this alone, but...

要するに人間っていうのは、

In short, what it means to be human is that...

生まれたときには、

When I was born,

その存在っていうものが先にあって、

That existence comes first,

その先に本質とか意味があると。

There is essence or meaning beyond that.

つまり生まれたときには全く何も意味がない状態で、

In other words, when one is born, there is completely no meaning at all.

行動とか、

Actions, and

あとは、

As for the rest,

人生を歩むための主体性みたいなのを磨いていくことで、

By honing something like the agency to walk through life,

初めて意味が派生するというものですと。

It's the first time that meaning is derived, so to speak.

なんかこう、

Well, you know...

すごい当たり前のことを言ってるようなんですけど、

It may sound like I'm stating the obvious, but...

本来の哲学の考え方っていうのは、

The original way of thinking in philosophy is that,

まず世界があって、

First, there is the world,

その中にいる自分なんですよ。

It's me who is inside that.

つまり、

In other words,

神様がいて、

There is a God,

神様が私たちを作ってくださったと。

It is said that God created us.

だから、

So,

世界があって自分なんですけど、

The world exists, and so do I, but...

実存主義っていうのは、

Existentialism is...

自分があって、

I exist, and

初めて世界に意味が起きるっていう、

For the first time, meaning arises in the world.

という考え方で、

With that way of thinking,

この当時、

At that time,

カフカが生きてた頃、

When Kafka was alive,

1800年代とかですけど、

It's from the 1800s, but...

ちょっと流行ったというか、

It's just a bit trendy, or rather,

なんて言うんでしょうね、

What should I say, I wonder?

ちょっと直接的な表現をしちゃうと、

To put it directly,

要するに宗教批判の言葉なんですね。

In short, it's a critique of religion.

要は、

In short,

宗教は神様が自分を作ってくれる。

Religion is when God creates you.

でも、

But,

神様なんていないじゃないですか、

There's no such thing as a god, is there?

みたいな。

Like that.

別に、

Not particularly,

神様は、

God is,

僕に何か悲劇的なことがあっても、

Even if something tragic happens to me,

助けてくれないですよと。

"You won't help me, will you?"

結局、

In the end,

僕は精神的に病んでますし、

I am mentally unwell, and...

誰にも評価されないですし、

No one recognizes my worth, and...

っていう感じで、

That's the feeling.

現実っていうのは、

Reality is,

そういうもんなんですと。

That's how it is.

それを受け止めて、

Accepting that,

初めて、

For the first time,

その先の行動に、

In the actions that follow,

意味を成していくのです、

It will start to make sense.

っていうのが、

What I mean is,

実存主義。

Existentialism.

カフカが言いたいのは、

What Kafka wants to say is,

何かというと、

If I may say something,

要は、

In short,

理不尽すぎる現実。

Unreasonably harsh reality.

だって、

Because,

ある日、

One day,

突然虫になっちゃう。

I suddenly turn into a bug.

フィクションですけど、

It's fiction, but...

それぐらい、

That much,

人生って、

Life is,

実は、

Actually,

めちゃめちゃ理不尽で、

It's extremely unreasonable,

もうちょっと言い方を変えて言うと、

To put it a little differently,

人種の話なんですよね。

It's a discussion about race, isn't it?

多分、

Maybe,

彼はユダヤ人なんで、

He is Jewish, so...

多分、

Maybe,

ユダヤ人差別とかっていうのもあって、

There is also discrimination against Jews, and...

そのユダヤ人っていう事実は、

The fact that he is Jewish,

変えられないじゃないですか。

It can't be changed, can it?

変えられないし、

I can't change it, and...

受け止めなきゃいけないし、

I have to accept it, and...

結局、

In the end,

神様は救ってくれないんで、

God won't save us, so...

それを受け止めなきゃ、

You have to accept that.

本来は、

Originally,

生きる意味っていうのは生まれないっていう。

The meaning of life is to not be born.

ただ、

However,

カフカはそれをもう受け止められないっていう。

Kafka says he can no longer accept it.

結局、

After all,

それを受け止められないで死んでいくっていう自分っていうのも現実ではあるから、

It's also a reality that I, who cannot accept that, am dying.

それを描いてるっていう。

They say they're drawing that.

結構だから、

Because it's quite enough,

割とちゃんとその辺の構造を踏まえないと、

You need to properly understand the structure around that area to some extent.

何言ってるか分かんない本なんですよ。

It's a book where I can't understand what it's saying.

カフカって結構イケメンでね、

Kafka is actually quite handsome, you know.

写真見るとめっちゃイケメンなんですよね。

When I look at the photo, he looks really handsome.

めちゃめちゃ内向的で。

I'm extremely introverted.

ただ、

However,

これ小説あるんですけど、

There is a novel about this, but...

この変身を書いて、

"Write this transformation,"

本が出版されるじゃないですか。

A book will be published, won't it?

やたら小っちゃい本になって、

It's become an unusually small book,

短編小説だから、

Because it's a short story,

小っこい本で小っちゃい文字で書かれてて、

It's written in small letters in a tiny book,

それを見たカフカは、

Seeing that, Kafka...

なんかすごい不満そうだったみたいな、

It seemed like they were really dissatisfied.

エピソードが残ってて、

"The episodes are still remaining,"

要するに、

In short,

結構ちょっとサイコパスなところがあるんですけど、

I do have a bit of a psychopathic side, though.

この話を、

This story,

笑い話として紹介したかったらしいんだけど、

It seems like they wanted to introduce it as a funny story, but...

こんなもんだ人間はみたいな、

"This is what humans are like."

くだらんみたいな感じで、

It feels like something pointless.

だからこの本を書きながら、

So while writing this book,

できた時にね、

When it's done, you know.

友達と見せ合いっこして、

Showing each other with friends,

笑い合ってたっていうんですよ。

They said they were laughing together.

こんなこう、

Like this,

なんていうんですか、

What do you call it?

もう救いようのない話を、

It's a story that can't be saved anymore.

笑いながら話してて、

While talking and laughing,

で、なんかその出来上がった小説を見て、

So, looking at the finished novel,

こんなちまちました、

Such trivial things,

なんか不気味なテイストの方に仕上がって、

It ended up having a creepy taste to it.

みたいな感じで文句言ってたみたいな、

It seems like they were complaining in a way like that.

話があるらしいんで、

It seems there's something they want to talk about,

だからまあ皮肉な、

So, it's quite ironic,

人生ってのは皮肉ですし、

Life is ironic, and...

まあそういうことを受け止めて、

Well, accepting that sort of thing,

生きていかなきゃいけないっていうのが、

"We have to keep living, you know."

人間だし、

Because I'm human,

まあつまるところの、

Well, to sum it up,

まあ現実主義というか、

Well, it's more like realism, I suppose.

リアリズムっていうことですね。

It's about realism.

それを踏まえて、

Taking that into account,

あの生きていくべきだよっていうのが、

You should live.

まあ皮肉で書かれてるのが、

Well, what's written is ironic,

この変身っていう本ですね。

This is the book called "Transformation."

だから結構ね、

So it's quite...

あのなんていうんですかね、

Um, how should I put it...

この本を読んだだけの人からすると、

For someone who has only read this book,

なんだこの本はみたいな感じで、

What is this book about, or something like that.

言われてることは多い。

Many things are being said.

でも僕も当時、

But back then, I also...

文学作品として、

As a literary work,

まあ読むべき本だなと思って、

Well, I thought it was a book that should be read,

読んだ気がするんですけど、

I feel like I've read it, but...

やっぱわからないなりに、

I still don't understand, but...

おそらくまあ文学作品ってこういうもんだし、

Well, perhaps this is what literary works are like.

まあそうですね。

Well, that's true.

おそらく芸術性としてね、

Perhaps it's as an artistic quality,

そういうのがあるんだろうなって思いながら、

I think there must be something like that.

まあもやりながら読み終わりましたけど、

Well, I finished reading it while doing other things, but...

でもちゃんと虫になるじゃないですか、

But you properly become a bug, don't you?

それ確か。

That's for sure.

ちゃんと虫になるんですか、

Will you really turn into a bug?

そう。

That's right.

ちゃんと虫になっちゃうから。

Because you'll truly become a bug.

虫、あんゆうとかじゃなくて、

It's not about insects or anything like that,

ちゃんと虫になる描写があるじゃないですか。

There's a proper depiction of becoming a bug, isn't there?

そうそうそうそうそうそう。

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

グロテスクなんですよね、そう。

It's grotesque, isn't it?

でなんかね、

So, you know,

これもカフカの名言で残ってるんですけど、

This is also a famous quote from Kafka, but...

なんか俺はちっちゃい、

I feel like I'm small.

ちっぽけな一匹の虫だみたいな名言が残ってるんですよ。

There's a famous saying that goes, "It's like a tiny little bug."

要はこれ自分のことを多分言ってるんですよね。

In other words, this is probably talking about myself.

なんかこの本を書いてるときに、

When I was writing this book,

なんかめちゃめちゃブラック労働というか、

It’s really terrible, like extreme black labor or something.

ブラック企業で働いてたんですって。

I heard you were working at aブラック企業 (black company).

でもうすっごいこう冴えない毎日で。

But my days are really dull and unremarkable.

本もさ、誰からも評価されないしとか、

Books, you know, they aren't appreciated by anyone, and so on.

この前にもね、本を書いてるから、

I wrote a book before, too, so...

結構言っちゃうとうるさんちばんに、

If I say it pretty straightforwardly, it's at Uru-san's place first.

それの状態をこう自分のこう、

In this condition, like my own,

すごい稚拙な言い方すると、

To put it in a very childish way,

愚痴っぱい感じに書いてると思う。

I think it's written in a whiny tone.

あとはそのなんていう、暗優というか、

And then there's that thing, what's it called, dark elegance or something.

もう社会なんて、

I don't care about society anymore.

だって結局、

Because in the end,

要するに実存主義の話に戻るんですけど、

In short, it goes back to the discussion of existentialism.

結局だから実存主義の言いたいのって、

In the end, what existentialism wants to say is that...

要はこの人間のこの生き物としての器には、

In short, within this human being, this creature...

何も意味がないっていうことを言ってるんですね。

You're saying that there is no meaning in anything.

要は生まれたときに、

In short, when you were born,

生まれたときには何も意味がなくて、

When I was born, there was no meaning at all,

この形にも全く意味がなくて、

This shape has no meaning at all,

でその後行動を起こして、

And then take action afterwards,

その行動によって起きる価格変化にこそ、

It is precisely the price changes that occur as a result of that action that...

意味があるっていう考え方なんですけど、

It's a way of thinking that suggests there's meaning behind it.

器に意味がないのに、

Even though there is no meaning in the vessel,

結局この本では、

In the end, this book...

器に左右される、

Affected by the vessel.

要はその人の見た目に左右されて、

In short, it is influenced by that person's appearance,

家族ですら家族を見捨てるんだ、

Even family abandons family.

みたいなことを言ってる本だから、

It's a book that says things like that, so...

皮肉なんですよ、めっちゃ。

It's so ironic.

結局、なんだかんだ理想を、

After all, regardless of anything, ideals...

並べるが、

I'll arrange it, but...

結局は人は見た目で判断してるし、

In the end, people judge based on appearances.

その現実は変えられないと。

That reality can't be changed.

でもそれを受け止めないと、

But if you don’t accept that,

前に進めないからっていうね、

"Because I can't move forward,"

メッセージが入ってるわけですけど、

There is a message, but...

だからこれはね、

So this is, you know,

なんかこう、

Something like this,

ある種、僕が思う、

In a way, I think that…

なんか現代的に必要な観点でもあるっていうか、

It's also a perspective that seems necessary in modern times.

なんかこれだから200年、

Because of this, it's been 200 years.

え、百何十年も前の話ですけど、

Well, it's a story from over a hundred years ago, but...

その頃からやっぱこういう見た目の話とか、

Since that time, I guess we've been talking about appearance-related topics like this.

差別の話とか、

Talking about discrimination,

まあそういうのあって、

Well, there's that.

で、それに一喜一憂とか、

So, worrying over it and being happy or sad about it,

まあほとんど落ち込むことがほとんどですけど、

Well, I mostly feel down, but...

そういう人たちがいっぱいいたわけですよ。

There were a lot of people like that.

で、時代は時は流れて、

And so, time flows on...

結構やっぱ今も同じような話はしてるじゃないですか。

We're still talking about similar things, aren't we?

結局、ポリコレだなんだ言うて、

In the end, it's all about political correctness and so on.

結局は見た目に左右されて、

In the end, we are influenced by appearances.

で、見た目とか、

So, in terms of appearance,

あとはなんだろうな、

I wonder what else there is.

もうちょっとステータス的な話もそうですよね。

It's also about the status a little more, isn't it?

なんか、人って結局、

Well, in the end, people...

なんかそういうとこで判断されちゃってて、

It feels like I'm being judged in those kinds of situations.

人種とか、

Race, etc.

あとは金持ってるかとか、

The rest is whether you have money or not.

まあ見た目とか、

Well, in terms of appearance,

すごい判断されて、

That's an amazing judgment.

で、それに、

Well, and,

その判断軸に、

That criterion for judgment,

すごい人生を翻弄されてる我々たちみたいな構図っていうのは、

The situation of people like us who are being tossed around by an amazing life is,

やっぱ結構現代に通じる皮肉が入ってるかなっていうところで、

I think there is quite a bit of irony that connects to modern times.

だからまあ、

So, well,

僕はこの本を読んで、

I read this book, and

その考えに至ったっていうわけじゃないんですけど、

It's not that I've come to that thought, but...

すごいそうだよなっていう、

It's amazing, isn't it?

リアリズムってそうだよなっていう感覚を持った本ですね。

It's a book that gives you a sense of "that's realism."

この読み解いていくと、

As I decipher this,

そういうことを言ってるんだなっていうのに。

I see that's what you're saying.

カフカに共感した?

Did you empathize with Kafka?

カフカに共感はちょっと、

I can't really relate to Kafka.

大丈夫ですか?

Are you okay?

だいぶ病んでる感じ。

It feels quite sick.

いや、そうなんだよ。

No, that's right.

カフカは人間的に好きっていうのあるんですよ。

I really like Kafka as a person.

やっぱりめちゃめちゃ内向的でネガティブだけど、

After all, I'm really very introverted and negative, but...

結構やっぱいいエピソードとかもあって、

There are actually quite a few good episodes.

まあ結構その、

Well, quite frankly,

博愛ではないんですけど、

It's not charity, but...

やっぱ人のことを思いやれる人でもあるっていうエピソードが結構たくさん残ったりするんで、

After all, there are quite a few episodes that show that they are also someone who can think of others.

人間的な魅力があるっていう意味でも好きなんですけど、

I like it in the sense that it has human charm, but...

あとやっぱね、

Well, you know,

そのカフカの話は実存主義の話になっちゃうんですけど、

That Kafka story turns into a tale of existentialism, but...

やっぱ実存主義って結構その古い考え方で、

After all, existentialism is quite an old way of thinking.

別に今ね、

Not that it matters right now,

あのあえて言うほどのことでもないぐらい、

It's not really something worth mentioning, to put it that way.

まあ、

Well,

普通っちゃ普通というか、

It's quite ordinary, to be honest.

例えばニーチェの話で言うと、

For example, when it comes to Nietzsche's discussion,

まあそのさっきのその見た目とか地位とかステータスとか、

Well, about that appearance, status, and position from earlier...

そういうの人種とかそういうのに不満を持った人たちがルサンチバンになって、

People who are dissatisfied with things like race or similar issues become ressentiment.

でルサンチバンは都党を組んで、

Delusional resentment forms a party.

あのなんかそういうなんていうのも、

Well, um, I guess you could say...

あのどうしようもないとね、

Well, what should I do about that?

どうしようもない人たちが、

People who are beyond help,

なんかその悪い政治をやる人たちを支持しちゃって、

Somehow, I'm supporting those who engage in that bad politics,

戦争が起きるんだとか、

They say a war will break out.

だから、

So,

あの結局、

Well, in the end,

そういうところから抜け出して、

"To break free from such places,"

卓越して、

Outstanding,

その超人っていう、

That superhuman,

なんかまあその卓越した人にならないといけないんだと、

I guess you have to become an extraordinary person.

なんかそれってでも結構こう現代で言うさ、

Well, that kind of sounds like something you'd say in modern times.

我々が普通に生きてる社会でも、

Even in the society where we live normally,

なんかあの教訓というかさ、

It's like that lesson or something, you know?

やっぱあの通じるところはあるじゃないですか、

After all, there are places where it connects, right?

要するにこう不平不満だけ言ってて、

In short, just complaining and expressing dissatisfaction,

こう何も行動に起こさないみたいなね、

It feels like not taking any action at all.

結構そのビジネス的な感覚にも、

Well, in terms of that business sense...

通ずるところがあったり、

There are places where it connects.

まあ教訓とかね、

Well, lessons or something like that,

差が深いなっていうところと、

It's where the difference is profound, and...

あとまあ、

Well then,

あのね、

You know,

サルトル、

Sartre,

実存主義のサルトルの言葉っていうか、

It's like the words of Sartre from existentialism,

これだから、

That's why,

ちょっと僕の話にも紐づく話なんで、

It's a story that ties into my own a little bit, so...

ちょっと話したいんですけど、

I want to talk a little.

あのサルトルは、

That Sartre is,

人のせいばっかりしてルサンチマンにならないで、

Don't just blame others and become resentful.

結局行動で変えていかなきゃいけないんだと、

In the end, we have to change things through our actions.

もうちょっと前向きにやっていかなきゃいけないんだっていうのを言ってますけど、

I'm saying that we need to approach things a bit more positively, but...

それを、

That.

えっとね、

Well, you see,

アンガージマン、

Anger Management,

アンガージマンっていう、

It's called engagement.

なんか戦隊モノのヒーローみたいな、

It's like a hero from a sentai series.

フランス語、フランス語です、これ。

This is French, it's French.

アンガージマン?

Anger management?

アンガージマン。

Anger management.

これだけ聞くとね、

When you hear just this,

なんか、よくわからないもの。

I don't really understand what it is.

これ英語にすると分かりやすいんですけど、

When you put this into English, it becomes easier to understand, but...

エンゲージメントなんですよ。

It's all about engagement.

あー、

Ah,

何とかマンってことじゃないです?

Isn't it something like "something man"?

何とかマンじゃないです。

It's not something like a "hero."

ルサンチマンってこと。

It's about ressentiment.

ルサンチマンとかけてるのかな。

I wonder if it's related to ressentiment.

あの、そこはちょっとあの、

Um, well, that's a bit...

そういう系ですね。

That's the kind of thing.

あの、そうそう、そう。

Um, yes, that's right.

だからエンゲージメント

So, engagement.

ただエンゲージメントって

It's just engagement.

僕らが一般的に使ってるエンゲージメントって

The engagement that we generally use is...

言葉とちょっと違くて

It's a bit different from the words.

エンゲージメントって拘束っていう意味があるらしいんですけど

It seems that "engagement" has the meaning of "constraint."

未来に向かって自分を成長させるためには

To grow myself towards the future.

拘束されている感覚

The feeling of being restrained.

それは大体外から見た自分

That's roughly how I see myself from the outside.

大多存在と大事存在っていう言葉で言ってるんですけど

I'm using the terms "major existence" and "important existence."

大多存在っていうのは外から見た自分

The "majority existence" is the self that is seen from the outside.

大事存在っていうのは自分から見た自分

An important existence is oneself as seen from one's own perspective.

自分が本当はこうなりたいよっていう自分ですね

It's the self that truly wants to become this way.

大体大多存在的に自分を判断しちゃってるから

Because I'm generally judging myself based on what is commonly accepted.

そういうかやから外れて

Get away from that kind of thing.

自分自身をちゃんと見つめて

Look at yourself properly.

自分が感じる幸福であったりとか

It is the happiness that I feel.

あとはさっきの話にも通じますね

That also connects to what we talked about earlier.

1個前の紹介してくれた小説の話にも

In the story of the novel you introduced me to earlier.

通じますけど

I understand, but...

人が決めてる判断とかじゃなくて

It's not a judgment made by people.

自分が本当に良いと思えるものを

Something that I truly believe is good.

判断できるようになって

I have become able to make judgments.

それをちゃんと行動に移しなさいと

"Make sure to take proper action on that."

それを初めて抜け出したときに

When I first broke away from it.

ルサンチマンから解き放たれて

Released from ressentiment.

本当の自由が待ってるっていうことを

That true freedom is waiting.

言ってるんですけど

I'm saying it.

その表現方法としていくつか提案してるんですよ

I am suggesting several ways to express that.

その一つが

One of them is

政治参加

Political participation

これが面白いんですけど

This is interesting, though.

結構サルトルってヨーロッパでめちゃめちゃ人気な哲学者

Sartre is really a very popular philosopher in Europe.

特にフランスでは

Especially in France.

フランスというかヨーロッパで

In France or rather Europe.

旅行とか行くじゃないですか

You know, like going on trips and such.

空港とかで追っかけというか

It's like being chased at the airport.

ジャニーズみたいな感じで

Like something from Johnny's.

迎え入れられちゃうぐらい人気者だったんです

They were so popular that they were welcomed in.

キャーみたいな黄色い線が上がるぐらい

It's like a yellow line that goes up to "Kya!"

それぐらい人気者の

That's how popular they are.

サルトルが反体制派なんですよ

Sartre is an anti-establishment figure.

サルトルって

What about Sartre?

それぐらい影響力が強くて

It has that much influence.

割と反体制というか

Relatively anti-establishment, or rather.

要は受け身じゃなくて

In short, it's not about being passive.

自分で主張して

Assert it yourself.

何か政治参加しなさいっていう

"Do something to participate in politics."

革命を起こしなさいみたいな

"Like, start a revolution."

極端に言い換えるとね

To put it extremely, you could say...

割とそこで影響を

Relatively having an influence there.

今のリベラルとか

The current liberalism or today's liberals.

左寄りの人に影響を与えた人でもあるっていう

He's also someone who has influenced left-leaning people.

だから僕は結構

So I'm quite...

もともとちょっと

Originally a little.

左派的な感覚があるっていうのは

Having a leftist sensibility means...

この番組で何回も話してるんですけど

I've talked about this several times on this program.

結構だからシンパシーを感じるのはここで

It's quite okay to feel sympathy here.

結局何かを

In the end, something.

自分で

By myself

世の中の不平等とか

Inequalities in the world and such.

社会的な不都合とか

Social inconveniences, etc.

そういうのに屈しないで

Don't give in to that sort of thing.

それに不満ばっか言ってないで

Stop complaining all the time.

何かをやろうとすると

When you try to do something,

何かアクションが必要だから

Because some action is needed.

そういった時に

At times like that

政治の活動とか

Political activities and such.

社会参加

Social participation

あとはもう一つは芸術って言ってるんですよね

The other thing is that it's called art, you know.

アートに

To art

アート活動で

In art activities

その後で人に影響を与えられるようになりません

After that, I will not be able to influence others.

そこで自己表現したやつが

So the one who expressed themselves there...

それが結果的に

As a result,

自分が

Myself

さっきの対峙存在っていう

The earlier confrontation is what you call an existing presence.

自分が自分の中で評価した

I evaluated myself internally.

本当にやりたいことの

What you really want to do.

表現をしてることになるから

Because it means you're expressing something.

そういう形で表現しなさいって

Express it in that way.

言ってるんですよ

I'm saying it.

結構これは結果論というか

Well, this is more of a hindsight perspective.

もともとそれを知って

I originally knew that.

僕がそうなったってわけじゃないんですけど

It's not like I ended up that way, but...

結果的に

As a result

自分の中で左寄りの考え方とかに

Left-leaning thoughts within myself.

シンパシーを感じたのは

I felt sympathy.

こういう言説があるなっていうところで

I see there is discourse like this.

結構実存主義に

Quite existentialism.

紐づいてるところがあるんだなっていうのを

I realize there are connections.

思ったっていう話です

It's a story about what I thought.

だから結局

So in the end.

ある種の人間的なリアリズムを

A certain kind of human realism.

求めていく流れで

In the flow of seeking.

なんかこう

Something like this...

人間的なリアリズムを求めていく流れで

In the pursuit of human realism.

世の中の価値観とか

Values of the world and so on

あとは

The rest is...

自分が思ってる不平不満

Complaints and dissatisfaction that I have in mind.

っていうのを乗り越えるためには

In order to overcome that.

何かの行動とセットで

Set with some action.

それがやっぱりそういう

That's just how it is, after all.

この番組でも言ってるような

As it is said in this program.

発信であったりとか

It was about sending out.

あとはアート活動みたいな

Like art activities.

そういうのに

In that case.

シンパシーを感じるっていうのは

Feeling sympathy means…

この本とか

Like this book, for example.

カフカの本もそうですけど

It's the same with Kafka's books.

ちょっと腹落ちしたというか

I felt a bit convinced, or rather.

自分を理解する上で

In understanding myself

確かになんか

Certainly something.

そういう意味で

In that sense.

サハに共感してる部分は

The part I empathize with Sah.

あったなっていうのを

I remembered that.

紐解いたというね

They say you untied it.

なるほど

I see.

ちょっと難しい話になっちゃってますけど

It's getting a bit difficult to talk about.

要は行動して変えていこうよっていう

In short, it's about taking action and making a change.

単純に言うとシンプルな話じゃないですか

To put it simply, isn't this a straightforward story?

結局幸福の尺度って

In the end, what is the measure of happiness?

自分で決めてるっていうよりは

It's more like I'm being decided by myself rather than deciding.

世の中で

In the world

これ幸せですよねって言ってることに

This is what they are saying about being happy, right?

自分を照らし合わせて

Compare it with yourself.

それが自分がその状態にあるかどうかで

Whether or not I am in that state.

幸福度を測ったりするじゃないですか

You sometimes measure happiness levels, right?

要は例えばお金を持ってることは

In short, having money, for example, is...

イコール幸せっていうのは

Equal happiness means that

社会通念であって

It is a social convention.

自分で決めてないことなんですけど

It's something I haven't decided for myself, though.

大体そういうことで判断しちゃって

Basically, you're making judgments like that.

でもその判断軸自体を

But that very criterion for judgment...

そもそも問いかけて

First of all, asking a question.

本質的に自分がいいと思える

Essentially, I can think of myself as good.

ものとか

Things and such.

本当は自分は

The truth is, I am...

世の中的にはこうかもしれないけど

It may be like this in the world.

自分はこう思ってるっていうのを

What I think is this.

言えるようになりましょう

Let's become able to say it.

みたいなことなんだと

It's something like that.

思うんですけど

I think that...

すごい

Amazing

示唆に富んでる

Rich in insights.

内容だとは思うんですよね

I think it is the content.

確かに最近も

Certainly, recently as well.

人は他人の欲望を模倣するっていう

People mimic the desires of others.

本がね

It's a book, you know.

よく話題になってる気がするから

I feel like it often comes up in conversation.

そういうことですよね

That's what it means, right?

難しい話だと思うんですよ

I think it's a difficult topic.

資本主義の世の中で

In a world of capitalism.

それだって経済的に裕福な

Even that is economically affluent.

人の方が幸せであるっていうのは

The idea that people are happier is

確かにやっぱ飯食えるから

It’s true, I can definitely eat.

それはそうじゃんっていう話はあるんですけど

There is indeed a story that goes like that.

やっぱそれに依存しすぎちゃって

I guess I relied on it too much after all.

その依存してる状態で

In that state of dependence.

それに僕はなれないから

Because I can't become that.

本当この社会は終わってるみたいな

It really feels like this society is coming to an end.

日本は終わってる

Japan is finished.

この社会を変えられるのは

Only those who can change this society are...

政治家が変えないから悪い

It's bad because politicians won't change.

っていうんで

So, that's why.

要はそのせんしちゃうみたいな話ですね

In short, it's like a story about that kind of battle.

そういうのってやっぱ繋がってる

Things like that are definitely connected.

ルサンチマンの話

The story of ressentiment.

繋がってるっていう

It means "We're connected."

感じで

In a feeling or in a sense.

感じはするんで

I have a feeling.

この辺はやっぱりすごくうまく

This area is really amazing after all.

言葉にしてくれてるなっていう感じは

It feels like you are putting it into words.

あるんですよね

It exists, you know.

であと

And then

ちょっとこれも難しい説明の補足が

I need to add a bit of a difficult explanation to this as well.

続いちゃって申し訳ないですけど

I'm sorry to keep you waiting, but...

ただなんかそのサルトルは

"It's just that something about Sartre..."

基本的に別に

Basically, it doesn't matter.

主張とか行動は大事だけど

Claims and actions are important, but...

別に共産主義者になれとは言ってなくて

I'm not saying that you have to become a communist.

別に資本主義も否定してなかったりして

I'm not necessarily denying capitalism either.

で

So.

あの

Um...

まあその

Well then,

もう片方で言う近い存在で言うと

If we speak of a close relationship from the other side,

マルクス主義があって

There is Marxism.

でマルクス主義はもう完全にこう社会批判というか

So Marxism has completely become a form of social criticism.

社会の仕組みが悪いっていう

It's said that the structure of society is flawed.

感じじゃないですか

Doesn't it feel like that?

そうじゃなくてそれは受け入れた上で

Not that, but accepting it as it is.

そもそも自分の行動をとか主張して

To begin with, to assert one's own actions.

そこの行動を持って

With that action over there.

自分の本質を定めなさいっていうのが

"Establish your essence."

サルトルとか

Sartre and so on.

あの実現主義を言ってる事なので

Since I'm talking about that realism.

そこはやっぱ結構ちょっと

Well, that's quite a bit.

その左派っぽい流れでも

Even in that leftist-like trend

言ってることはちょっと違うっていう

What you’re saying is a bit different.

とこはあるけど

There's a place, but...

あるかなっていうところで

I wonder if there is.

その辺も結構ね

That's pretty much the case around there too.

僕は合点がいくというか

I understand, or rather, it makes sense to me.

改めてこう

Once again, like this.

なんていうんですかね

What do you call it?

別になんかね

It's not like anything.

若い頃に知り合った本じゃなくて

It's not a book I met when I was young.

本当に結構最近に知り合った本であるんで

It's a book that I recently got to know well.

あの

Um...

なんか昔出会えればよかったとか

I wish we could have met earlier.

別にそういうことで言ってる

I'm not saying that for any particular reason.

あれじゃないんですけど

It's not that, though.

それいいですね

That's nice.

昔もっと若い時読んでおけばよかった

I wish I had read it when I was younger.

いやもっとまあ

Well, more like...

そうですね

That's right.

でもメタ的に多分

But meta-wise, probably.

俯瞰して自分を見れたっていうのはあるかも

I might have been able to view myself from a higher perspective.

もっと早くに出会って

If only we had met sooner.

それを例えばその高な時期に読んでたら

For example, if I had read that during that high period...

読んでたら

While I was reading...

なんとなくよく分かんない

I don't really understand it somehow.

反骨精神

Spirit of rebellion

日本クソだみたいな

Japan is really trash.

なるほど

I see.

なんかあるじゃん

There's something, right?

そういう若気のいたりみたいな

It's like that youthful recklessness.

もう少しだ

Just a little more.

それを構造的に把握してれば

If you understand it structurally, then...

その

That

もうちょっと早く保守に行っちゃった

I went to maintenance a little earlier.

うん

Yeah.

なんかいいと思うんで

I think it's really nice.

うんですよね

That's right.

別になんか不満を言ってる人を別に

There's no need to say anything mainly about the people who are complaining.

休断したりとかそういうことではなくて

It's not about taking a break or anything like that.

ただなんかそれを乗り越えないと結局

But somehow, if you don’t overcome that in the end...

なんていうのか

What should I say?

ないじゃないですか

Isn't it there?

その本質的な活意みたいな

That essential vitality.

結局なんかその不満とか

In the end, it's like those frustrations or...

自分の人生不満を抱えちゃってること自体が

The fact that I'm carrying dissatisfaction in my life itself is...

どこか滞留とか停滞して

Somewhere it's stagnating or being held up.

で別になんかね

It's not like anything in particular.

それはそれで人生だって

That's life in its own way.

言い聞かせちゃえば

If you just tell yourself.

それまでなんですけど

That's until then, but...

でもなんかそれを受け入れた上で

But somehow, on top of accepting that...

行動していけば

If you take action,

その先にある何かみたいなのが見えるみたいな

It feels like I can see something ahead.

話ですね

It's a story, isn't it?

でえっとね

Well, um...

今日もねおそらく波形がですね

Today, I suppose the waveform is...

僕が多分ずっと

I probably will forever.

波形ってその

Waveform, well...

二人の録音の

Recording of the two.

二人のその録音のね

The recording of the two of them, you know.

ちょっとまたこういう紹介系とかね

Let's do another introduction like this.

何か論説みたいなのを話し始めちゃう

I start talking about something like an essay.

さっき難しい話してましたよだから

Just now, we were talking about something difficult, that's why.

そうですよね

That's right, isn't it?

出てました出てました

It was out, it was out.

出てましたよね

You were out, right?

久々にその

It's been a while since then.

昔の左寄りモードの

Old left-leaning mode.

なんか会話になってましたけど

It seemed like we were having a conversation, but...

ちょっとこの流れで紹介するのは

It might be a bit out of place to introduce this in the current context.

あれなんですけど

It's about that, but...

もう一個紹介したい本があって

There's another book I want to introduce.

これもねなんか知ってる人は

This one, well, people who know it...

結構多いのかな

I wonder if there are quite a lot.

分かんないですけど

I don't know, but...

福田恒有の

Tsunehisa Fukuda's

私の幸福論っていう

It's called my theory of happiness.

知らなかったです

I didn't know.

結構古い本ですね

It's quite an old book, isn't it?

もう何十年前だろう

I wonder how many decades ago it was.

相当昔っすね

It's been quite a while ago.

福田恒有さん

Mr. Tsunehisa Fukuda

もう大前に亡くなられてるんで

He already passed away a long time ago.

昭和の

Showa era

保守系の割と名著

A relatively famous conservative work.

ロンラン人っていうか

It's not so much that they're called "Ronran people" but...

ロンラン人というか

It's not so much about being a Ronran person...

なんていうんですか

What do you call it?

作家さんですからね

Because they are a writer.

私の幸福論っていう

It's called my theory of happiness.

言ってるぐらいの幸福論の話なんですけど

It's a discussion about a theory of happiness to the extent that I'm saying.

これ全部ちょっと話すと大変だから

It's a bit tough to talk about all of this.

かいつばんで話すと

To put it briefly,

結構これ言ってることが近くて

It's quite close to what I'm trying to say.

カフカの本ではない

It's not a book by Kafka.

カフカの本も近いな

Kafka's book is also close.

だからなんかその人の美衆というか

So it's like that person's beauty or something.

見た目の話を結構

Quite a talk about appearances.

話してるんですよ

I'm talking.

すっごいこれ結構残酷な内容なんで

This is really quite a brutal story.

読む人が読むと

When the reader reads it.

ゲロ出ちゃうかもしれないですけど

I might throw up, but...

要するに

In short,

これちょっと

This is a bit...

僕の言葉じゃないですかね

Isn't it my words?

誤解しないでほしいんですけど

I don't want you to misunderstand me, but...

ブスは幸せになれないっていうことを言ってる

It means that ugly people cannot be happy.

はいはいはい

Yes, yes, yes.

もうこれだから今

That's why now.

絶対福田恒有は

"Absolutely, Fukuda Tsuneari is..."

ポリコレで大変なことになる

It will become a big problem due to political correctness.

生きてたら大変なことになると思うんですけども

I think it would be a big problem if I were alive.

こんな言い方はしてないですよ

I haven't said it like that.

ただ結局

But in the end

見た目で判断されちゃって

Judged by appearances.

女の人の幸せ

A woman's happiness.

今の現代で言うと男の人の幸せも

In today's modern world, the happiness of men too...

そうかもしれないですけど

That might be true, but...

そこに

There.

左右されちゃってて

I'm being swayed.

結局でもそれって変えられないじゃないですか

In the end, you can't change that, can you?

あなたたちは

You all are.

どんなにポリコレで女性の人権運動だって言っても

No matter how much it is called a women's rights movement under political correctness.

結局現実って

In the end, reality is...

もうすごいリアルで

It's already so realistic.

結局見た目で判断してる

In the end, it's being judged by appearances.

男たちっていうのは絶対

Men are absolutely

ゼロに

To zero.

ならないし

It won't do.

社会も変わらない

Society won't change either.

だからそれを社会活動家として

So I will do that as a social activist.

例えばフェミニズムとか

For example, feminism.

フェミニスト運動みたいな

Like the feminist movement.

人たちに向けて言ってるんですけど

I'm saying this to the people.

それを言ったところで

Even if you say that.

変わらないっていう現実は受け止めないと

You have to accept the reality that things won't change.

あなた自身が幸せになれないです

You cannot become happy yourself.

っていうのを

That's what I'm talking about.

すごい言ってる

You're saying something amazing.

かなり厳しい本って

It's quite a tough book.

でもそうですよね

But that's true, isn't it?

だからまずその現実を受け止めた上で

So first, let's accept that reality.

そこから先の行動だっていうことを

It's about the actions from that point onward.

言いたいんですよね

I want to say it.

行動することを否定はしてないんだけど

I'm not denying the act of taking action, but...

ただ結局それをやってることで

But in the end, by doing that...

あなた自身が幸せになれることは絶対ないですと

You will never be able to be happy yourself.

はっきり断言してる

I am stating clearly.

結構残酷な本で

It's a rather cruel book.

でも本当そうで

But that's really true.

僕が例えば

For example, I...

ルッキズムの話で

Talking about lookism.

何が良い悪いっていうのは

What is good or bad is...

厳密には判断基準はないと思うし

I don't think there is a strict criterion for judgment.

それが全てだとは思ってないけど

I don't think that's everything, though.

例えば僕と

For example, with me.

トムカンさんが

Mr. Tomkan

トムクルーズが並んでて

Tom Cruise is lined up.

どっちかっこいいって言ったら

If you asked which is cooler...

それトムクルーズに決まってるじゃないですか

Of course, it's Tom Cruise!

ちょっと迷ってますね

I'm a bit confused.

僕はでもね

But I, you know...

ちょっと話ずれるから

This might deviate a bit from the topic.

僕はそのかっこいいかっこ悪いも

I am both cool and uncool.

みんながどう思ってるかを

What everyone is thinking.

自分にインストールしてるだけだから

It's just because I'm installing it on myself.

判断基準

Criteria for judgment

分かんないですよね正直そう言われても

I honestly don't understand, even if you say that.

ただいわゆる社会っていう

It's just what you call society.

大多数のマジョリティの声として

As the voice of the majority.

その見た目の判断ってある程度

That judgment based on appearance is to some extent.

優劣はつくんじゃないですか

Isn't there a distinction between good and bad?

もっとおかしいと言うと

If you say it's even funnier

僕と

Me and

あのすごい

That amazing

ロシアの180センチくらいある

About 180 centimeters tall and Russian.

綺麗な女性のモデルさんがいたとしましょう

Let's imagine there is a beautiful female model.

どっちが綺麗ですかって言われて

Which one is more beautiful?

あんまり僕って答える人

I'm not really someone who answers too much.

少ないと思う

I think it's少ない.

言ってくれたら嬉しいですけど

I would be happy if you told me.

ビューティフルっていう観点

From the perspective of being beautiful.

ビューティフル

Beautiful

言われれば

If you say so.

すごいマイルドに

Incredibly mild.

種類の問題だからね

It's a matter of type, you see.

種類ね

It's a type.

ビューティフル

Beautiful

ビューティフルはね

Beautiful, you know.

造形のね

It's about the form.

やゆいではないですから

It's not a mockery.

確かにそういう上手い逃げ方ありますね

Indeed, there are clever ways to escape like that.

いろんな尺度があるじゃないですか

There are various scales, aren't there?

尺度あるね

There is a scale.

比較のね

Comparison, right?

そうそうそうそう

That's right, that's right, that's right, that's right.

でもこれ田田さんすごい

But this is amazing, Tada-san.

今いいこと言ってくれたんですけど

You just said something nice.

結局見た目っていう変数で判断されるのは

In the end, being judged by appearance is a variable that matters.

間違いないですと

"There's no doubt about it."

その見た目の美しさで言ったらね

If we're talking about its beauty in appearance, you know.

造形の話なんで

It's a conversation about sculpture.

でもこれは実論主義の話と一緒なんですけど

But this is the same as a discussion on pragmatism.

それ自体は別にそんなに言っても

It's not really something that needs to be said that much anyway.

もうそれは受け止めなきゃいけない現実だから

It's a reality that I have to accept now.

意味はなくて

It has no meaning.

結局そこから

In the end, from there.

それを受け止めてからどう

What do you do after accepting that?

人間として成長していくか

Whether to grow as a human being.

っていうことが言いたいんだと思うんですよね

I think that’s what they want to say.

福田恒安さんは

Mr. Tsunehisa Fukuda is

だから要するにさ

So in other words,

いや見た目で判断するなんて良くないです

It's not good to judge based on appearances.

見た目のことを言って

Talking about appearances.

あなたどういう人生を歩んできたんですか

What kind of life have you lived?

価値観が狂ってるじゃないですか

Your values are messed up, aren't they?

みたいな

Like

すいません

Excuse me.

めちゃめちゃイライラしました

I was really, really frustrated.

これなんですよ

This is it.

結局これをやってるっていうこと自体が

In the end, just doing this itself is...

美衆で言ったら見にくいじゃないですか

If we talk about beauty, it's not pleasing to look at, is it?

この行動自体が

This action itself is.

言ってる

I'm saying it.

言ってることがもしかしたら正しいのかもしれないけど

What you're saying might actually be correct, but...

ただ言ってる状態って

It's just a state of saying it.

絶対その人は幸福な状態じゃないし

That person is definitely not in a state of happiness.

まずその行為が結構醜く映っちゃってる

First of all, that action looks quite ugly.

ひどい顔して言ってますよあなたみたいな

You're saying that with an awful face, just like you.

もう田田さんが今僕がこうね

Well, Tada is now like this to me.

軽くデモしたぐらいで

Just a brief demonstration.

嫌な言い方だって言ってるから

Because I'm saying it in an unpleasant way.

今ちょっと嫌いになりました

I just started to dislike you a little.

嫌いになったでしょ

You've come to hate me, haven't you?

僕の再現性が高すぎたっていうのが

My reproducibility was too high.

あるかもしれないですけど

It might exist.

いやでもだからこれリアルに言われたら

Well, if that's said to me in reality...

もっと多分嫌になると思うんですよね

I think I'll probably hate it even more.

だから結局そういうツンケンして

So in the end, you're acting all aloof like that.

ババババババババーって

Bababababababa!

バババババババーって言って

Say "bababababababa."

でそれだからその

Well, that's why...

ルッキズムとかを公平にもっと

More fairness regarding lookism and such.

判断しろって言ってることは正しいんだけど

What you're saying about making a judgment is correct, but...

事実幸福度尺度で言ったら

In terms of the happiness scale,

全然その状態幸福じゃないでしょ

That's not a happy state at all, is it?

あなたみたいな

Someone like you.

しかも見にくくなってますよと

Moreover, it has become difficult to see.

であのさっき田田さんが

So, earlier, Mr. Tada...

言ってくれたんですけど

You told me.

ビューティフルっていう観点で言ったら

From the perspective of what's beautiful...

見た目じゃない変数もいっぱいあって

There are many variables that aren't just about appearance.

だからそれを結局

So in the end, that.

仮にですよ

Just for example.

見た目がビューティフルだったとして

Even if it's beautiful in appearance,

ババババババババーって言う人は

People who say "bababababa"

結構見にくく映ると思うんですよ

I think it looks quite difficult to see.

見た目が綺麗だったとしてもね

Even if it looks beautiful.

よっぽど綺麗だったらちょっと分かんないですけど

If it's really beautiful, I might not be able to tell.

でもそういうことじゃないですか

But isn't that the case?

だから割と内面は

So, relatively speaking, my inner self is...

見た目のビューティフルを

The beauty of appearance.

超えちゃうというか

It's not so much about surpassing.

内面を磨かない限りは

Unless you polish your inner self.

絶対あなたは美しくなることはないと

You will absolutely never become beautiful.

で見た目が

The appearance is

ある程度こう

To some extent, this.

表現難しいですね

It's difficult to express.

見た目が

Appearance

例えばちょっと

For example, a little.

もうちょっと努力が必要な場合みたいな

It seems like more effort is needed.

すごい世の中ですよね

It's an amazing world, isn't it?

これを話すだけでこんな感じ

Just talking about this feels like this.

そうですよ結局こういう世の中

That's right, this is the world we live in after all.

だから

So.

やばいやばいやばいやばいやばいやば

This is bad, this is bad, this is bad, this is bad, this is bad, this is bad!

っていう人もいっぱい出てくるし

There will be lots of people who say that.

っていう話なんですけど

That's the story, but...

言えないでしょこの言葉を

You can't say this word, can you?

でもこれを僕らが話すときに

But when we talk about this

僕らが話すときに

When we talk

これを僕らが話すときに

When we talk about this

配慮してしまうことは

To be considerate.

その世の中づくりに僕らが加担してる

We are contributing to the creation of that world.

結局

In the end

見た目が全てですって

Appearance is everything.

世の中にしちゃってるようなもんで

It's like I'm doing something that the world is involved in.

これを言っちゃうと

If I say this...

ただもうちょっと大事なのは

"However, what's a little more important is"

人間的な奥行かしさとか

The depth of humanity or something like that.

あとは

That's all.

例えばさ

For example, you know?

これ例えいいと思うんですけど

I think this example is good.

バスですごい綺麗な女の人が立ってましたと

There was a really beautiful woman standing on the bus.

見た目がね

The appearance, you know?

おばあちゃんが

Grandma

マンガを着てると

When wearing manga

マインドバスで

On a mind bus

おばあちゃんが席に座りたがってて

Grandma wants to sit down.

その女の人は座ってるんですよ

That woman is sitting down.

でも

But

おばあちゃんが前に立って

Grandma is standing in front.

それを見た

I saw that.

その女の人は

That woman is

無視をするどころか

Far from ignoring it,

下打ちしてどっか行けみたいな態度を

An attitude of pushing you down and telling you to go away.

しましたと

I did it.

っていう綺麗な女の人ね

That's a beautiful woman, you know.

でもう一つは

But another thing is

見た目はそこまで

Appearance is not that great.

綺麗じゃないかもしれない

It might not be beautiful.

もしかしたらちょっと

Maybe just a little.

ブーちゃんかもしれないみたいな

It might be Boo-chan or something like that.

人が座ってて

A person is sitting.

でおばあさんが目の前に来ましたと

Then, the grandmother came right in front of me.

おばあさんぜひ座ってくださいと

"Please, grandmother, take a seat."

私も次の駅で降りるんで

I'm getting off at the next station too.

って言って

Say that.

でまたもしね

And if you die again.

バス乗って私が座ってたら

When I was sitting on the bus...

いつでも席譲るんで

I'll give up my seat anytime.

言ってくださいねみたいな

Something like "Please let me know."

っていう人と比べて

Compared to those people.

やっぱりこれどっちが美しいかって言ったら

Well, if you ask which one is more beautiful...

僕は後者だと思うんですよね

I think I am the latter.

だからその美しいっていうのは

So that beauty is...

人として好きになれるかとか

Whether I can come to like you as a person or not.

あり方として美しいかって

Is it beautiful in its way of being?

これぐらい結構単純な話で

It's quite a simple story, really.

行為としての美しさの方が

Beauty as an act is more...

本当は多分

Maybe in reality

勝るものがあるんだけども

There are things that surpass it, though.

人は結構見た目の方に

People tend to pay quite a bit of attention to appearances.

執着しちゃうから

Because I become attached.

そっちの方で論争を交わして

Engage in a debate over there.

どんどん醜い自分を

Gradually becoming more and more ugly self.

見た目に執着して

Obsessed with appearance.

自分に執着したって

Even if you are attached to yourself.

どんどん醜い

More and more ugly.

人になっていくと

As you become human

だから結構これもだから

So, this is also quite...

現在に通ずる

It leads to the present.

すごい皮肉が入ってるんですよ

It's full of great irony.

現在がより

Now is better.

見た目に対する配慮を

Consideration for appearance.

しなきゃいけないというか

It's more like I have to do it.

そこにすごくこだわるようになったのは

The reason I became very particular about that is...

間違いなくSNSの影響だと思ってて

I definitely think it's the influence of social media.

なぜかって言ったら

The reason I say that is...

SNSだとさっき和田さんが言ってたような

I think Wada-san just mentioned something like that on social media.

人柄が抜け落ちるんですよ

Your personality gets lost.

全部見た目が並ぶんですよ

Everything looks the same.

そこだけで判断しなきゃいけないから

Because you have to judge only based on that.

その人の振る舞いとかも一緒にセットで判断できない

You can't evaluate that person's behavior alongside their overall set of actions.

だから見た目だけで

So it's just about the appearance.

人判断するのが当然になってきたから

Because it has become natural to judge people.

本当そうだと思いますね

I really think so.

この話すると

When I talk about this story,

こういう反論が来ると思うんですよ

I think such a counterargument will come up.

じゃあ見た目も美しくて

Well then, it's also beautiful in appearance.

人格も美しければそれでいいじゃないかって

If your character is beautiful, then isn't that enough?

ある意味正しいんですよ

In a sense, it's true.

正しいんですけど

That's correct, but...

実存主義の話に戻すと

Returning to the topic of existentialism,

客観的な

Objective

美しさの事実っていうよりは

Rather than the fact of beauty,

自分が本来持ってる感覚として

As a sense that I originally possess.

倫理観を持って

With a sense of ethics.

正しい行動できるっていうことが

Being able to take the right actions is...

正しいわけで

It's the right thing.

他者の目を

The eyes of others

気にしてやってる

I'm doing it because I care.

ある種偽善なんですけど

It's a kind of hypocrisy, but...

偽善っていうものじゃなくて

It's not about hypocrisy.

本来内から出る美しさの方が

The beauty that comes from within is what truly matters.

美しいわけだから

Because it is beautiful.

だからパフォーマンスでやる

That's why I do it through performance.

例えばSNSとかで

For example, on social media and such.

パフォーマンス的に美人の人が席を移って

The beautiful person moved to another seat for performance reasons.

評判を良くするとか

Improve the reputation.

そういうのは間違いなわけですよ

That's exactly wrong.

だから本質的に内から出る

Therefore, it essentially comes from within.

対峙存在

Confrontational existence

さっきのサルトルの言葉で言うと

To use Sartre's words from earlier,

そういう意味合いで

In that sense.

本当の美しさを磨いていかないと

We must polish our true beauty.

結局

After all

このSNSで

On this SNS

汚染されきった

Completely contaminated.

この価値観みたいな感じで

It's like this sense of values.

世の中の価値観が

The values of the world.

それに染まっちゃうみたいな感じだから

It feels like I'm going to be dyed by it.

割と

Relatively.

多分福田恒有さんが

Perhaps Tsuneharu Fukuda is...

今生きてたら絶対に炎上するんですけど

If I were alive now, I would definitely be in the spotlight.

僕は良い本だと

I think it's a good book.

思ってるんですよね

I'm thinking about it.

言ってることが

What you are saying is...

極端ではあるんだけど

It's extreme, but...

現実的に

Realistically

現実を受け止めた上で

Facing reality.

行動で自分を美しく変えていく

Transforming oneself beautifully through actions.

必要があるっていうのは

What is necessary is

かなり

Pretty much

禁言というか

It's more like a ban on speech.

昔も今も

In the past and now.

みんなの

Everyone's

美的感覚って変わってないじゃないですか

The aesthetic sense hasn't changed, right?

なんでその表現の仕方が

Why do you express it that way?

ここまで変わるのかなっていう

I wonder if it will change this much.

本当はみんな同じじゃないですか

Aren't we all the same, really?

思っていることって

What I'm thinking is

そうなんですよね

That's right, isn't it?

ね

Hey.

なんか

Something.

でもやっぱあれかな

But I guess that's it, huh?

人種の問題とかからやっぱり結構

It's quite a bit related to issues of race.

奥を探っていくと

As I delve deeper...

来るんですかね

Are you coming?

黒人白人とかの

Black and white, etc.

なんなのかなと思いますよね

I wonder what it is, don't you?

この

This

絶対的に触れちゃいけない

You absolutely must not touch it.

見た目で判断するなって

Don't judge by appearances.

そういうそっち寄りの意見に対して

In response to such biased opinions.

それを否定することができないから

Because I cannot deny that.

どんどん声が強くなるのはしょうがないですよね

It's understandable that the voice gets stronger and stronger.

もうなんか

Well, something...

正論でしかない

It's nothing but a valid argument.

難しいですね

It's difficult, isn't it?

その

That

なんていうの

What should I say?

ありていとしての倫理観で言ったら

If we were to speak from the standpoint of a straightforward sense of ethics...

それが正しいよねみたいな感じですよね

It's like that feeling of "that's right," isn't it?

そうね

That's right.

でもね

But you know...

人間の奥行きってさ

The depth of a human being, you know...

それだけで見えてないから

It's just that you can't see it with just that.

思ってはいるみたいな感じの社会なわけじゃん

It feels like a society that seems to have those kinds of thoughts.

見た目の

Appearance

別にそこストレートに

There's no need to be so straightforward there.

普通に表現したらいいんじゃないかなって

I think it would be fine to express it normally.

別にいいん

That's fine.

昔みたいに

Like in the old days.

何が悪いことあるのかなっていうか

I wonder if there's anything wrong with that.

うん

Yeah.

そこに対してコンプレックスなりを持つ人に対する配慮ってことか

Is it consideration for people who have complexes about that?

そうですね

That's right.

あと見た目は変えられないっていうやつがあるじゃないですか

There's the saying that you can't change your appearance, right?

今整形でできますけど

You can do it with plastic surgery now.

あとそれも見た目

And that’s also about appearance.

よしよし

Alright, alright.

僕がコンプレックスって言ったのは

What I meant by saying it's a complex is...

よしよしとコンプレックス持ってるって関係ないじゃないですか

It's not related that you have a complex, isn't it?

そこが厄介だなと思ってて

I think that's the tricky part.

確かに

Certainly.

だって同じ見た目でもコンプレックス持ってる人もいれば

Because even if they have the same appearance, some people have complexes.

全く気にしない人もいるわけで

There are people who don't care at all.

そうするとやっぱ本人が悪いと思う

In that case, I think the person themselves is at fault.

そうなんですよ

That's right.

これがさっき言ってたサルトルの退治存在と耐えた存在ですね

This is what I was just talking about, Sartre's "being-for-itself" and "being-in-itself."

結局他者から見ての自分っていうフィルターで自分を見てるから悪くなっちゃう

In the end, it's because I'm viewing myself through the filter of how others see me that I end up feeling bad.

それにとらわれちゃう

I will get caught up in that.

自分でコンプレックス持って自分で騒いでっていう自作自演感がすごい

The feeling of being self-aware of my own complexes and making a big deal out of it feels very much like a performance.

でも一番幸せなのは自分が自分を認められてる状態じゃないですか

But isn't the happiest state to be one where you accept yourself?

全然不幸でもあるんですよ

I'm not happy at all.

結局なんで見た目で話すんですかみたいなことを言っちゃってるときに

In the end, when you're saying something like "why are you talking about appearances?"

そういう状態が

That kind of state.

それはもう自分はあたかも価値がないという判断で自分をさばいちゃってるわけじゃないか

Isn't it that you are judging yourself as if you have no value?

その前提だから

That's the premise.

それが悲しいですよね

That's sad, isn't it?

でもそれに気づかないというか

But rather than not noticing it...

気づかない世の中になっちゃったみたいなのがありますよね

It seems like we've become a world where people don't notice things anymore.

特に気にしない健全な人を巻き込んでもいるから

Because it also involves healthy people who don't particularly care.

いるからね

I am here, you know.

ちょっと迷惑系現代人ですよね

They're a bit of a nuisance type of modern person, aren't they?

いやだからそうなんですよ

Well, that's exactly it.

結構これデリケートな話になってくるじゃないですか

Well, this is quite a delicate subject, isn't it?

結局例えばですけど

In the end, for example.

僕が髪が生えなかったとしましょうと

Let's say I didn't have hair.

髪が生えなかったことを気にしてて

I'm worried about not having hair.

周りからの見た目で自分はあれなんか言われたくないから

I don't want to be judged by my appearance from others.

これは絶対いじらないでくださいっていう人と

There are people who say, "Please don't touch this at all."

あえて髪を剃ってその見た目がいいっていう人もいるわけで

There are also people who intentionally shave their heads and think it looks good.

でもその人のことをある意味軽蔑してるっていう価値観でもあるわけですよ

But it also reflects a viewpoint that somewhat looks down on that person.

あるでしょね

I guess there is.

だって自分でスキンヘイトにしてる人は自分がいいと思って

Because people who engage in skin hate think it's good for themselves.

そうですよね

That's right.

そうしてる

I'm doing that.

あるいは特定の人に言うと

Or if I were to say it to a specific person,

そういう条件でそうせざるを得ない状況になっちゃったかもしれないけど

It might have ended up in a situation where it can't be helped but to do it under those conditions.

でもこれはこれで自分だからって受け入れて

But I accept this as it is me.

その見た目を誇りに思ってる人もいるわけだから

There are people who take pride in that appearance.

それを軽視とか差別しちゃうってことになる

That would mean to underestimate or discriminate against it.

だから自分の中で勝手に思ってる

So I'm just thinking on my own.

コンプレックスに思う分にはいいけど

It's fine to feel insecure about it, but...

それを発信してしまった時点で大きく異名が変わります

Once you communicate that, your reputation will change significantly.

そうなんですよ

That's right.

これレッテルじゃないですか

Isn't this a label?

だから女性のフェミニズムのやつもそうです

That's why it's the same for women's feminism too.

これ一緒です

This is the same.

だから

So.

女性って括りで言ってるけども

You say it in terms of women, but...

そうじゃないって思ってる

I think it's not like that.

例えば働く女性改革で

For example, in the reform of working women.

働いてる女性こそが社会に役立ってるから

It is working women who are truly contributing to society.

やっぱり女性は働くべきだ

After all, women should work.

それは大切だし大事なんだけど

That's important and significant, but...

一方で働きたくない女性はどうするんですかみたいな話の

On the other hand, what about women who don't want to work?

全然代弁になってなくて

It's not representing at all.

なんかある種下げすんじゃってるというか

It's as if there's a certain kind of disdain or condescension.

いやもう女性は働く時代ですみたいな感じで

Well, it feels like it's the era for women to work.

でも私は別に働かない人生もありだと思ってて

But I believe it's also okay to live a life without working.

これはみんなから認められてるし

This is recognized by everyone.

私自身もこの今状態が幸せなんですっていう人の権利を

The right of people who say that they are happy in their current state.

やっぱり認められていいわけだから

After all, it's good because I'm being recognized.

ある種あんまり女性の働き方って言って

In a way, there isn't much talk about how women work.

働くこと前提みたいな社会にしちゃうと

If we create a society that's based on the assumption that one must work...

どんどん自分がいいと思ってて

I keep thinking that I’m doing well.

働いてなかった人が窮屈になるみたいな

It seems like those who weren't working become restricted.

変な現象が起きる

A strange phenomenon occurs.

僕そういうことをたまに考えるんですけど

I sometimes think about those kinds of things.

人と比較して

Compared to others

人と比較をしたりとかしていろいろ思うけど

I compare myself to others and think about various things, but...

それってネット上のSNSとか話題のものを見てるからそうなるだけで

That's just because you're looking at topics and things trending on social media.

街に出てね

Go out to the town.

人がいっぱいいる渋谷とかいいですよ

Shibuya, where there are lots of people, is nice.

行ってバーって見渡していろんな人を眺めるんですよ

You go and look around quickly, watching various people.

いろんな人がいるんですよ

There are all kinds of people.

いろんな人がいますね

There are all kinds of people.

それ大事だと思うんですよね

I think that's important.

そうですよね

That's right, isn't it?

いろんな人がいて

There are all kinds of people.

いろんな姿顔とかスタイルの人がいて

There are people with various appearances, faces, and styles.

それぞれがそれの人生を前向きに

Each person should face their life positively.

みんな生きてる人たちがいっぱいいるわけですよ

There are many people who are alive, you know.

あれを見ることってすごいいいことだと思う

I think it's really great to see that.

たまに眺めながら思いますね

I occasionally reflect while gazing.

本当そうなんですよね

That's really true.

それぞれの美しさがあって

Each has its own beauty.

嫌いな人もいれば好きな人もいるし

There are people I dislike and people I like.

お互い認め合う人もいれば認め合わない人もいる

There are people who acknowledge each other and people who do not.

ただその自然の状態じゃないですか

Isn't that just a natural state?

それが一番美しい

That is the most beautiful.

っていう思うんですけど

I think that's the case.

でも現代の感覚こうですよ

But this is the modern sensibility.

それは自分が自分の見た目

That is how I perceive my own appearance.

気に食わないんだったら成形しちゃいなよ

If you don't like it, just reshape it.

それでいいんだよ

That's fine.

もう人生自由に生きようよ

Let's live life freely from now on.

いいんだよ別に変えちゃっても

It's fine, you can change it if you want.

でも周り街見たらみんな同じ顔みたいな感じになっていくわけ

But when you look around the city, it feels like everyone has the same face.

これちょっと曲解ですけど

This is a bit of a misinterpretation, but...

共産主義ってこういうことですからね

This is what communism is all about.

全部平均平等化均一化して

Everything is being equalized and homogenized.

全部同じにするが共産主義なんで

Making everything the same is what communism is about.

まさにこういうこと

This is exactly what I mean.

中国行くと同じ見た目のビルめっちゃいっぱい建ってますから

When you go to China, there are so many buildings that look exactly the same.

全て均一平等にするっていう感覚

The feeling of making everything uniform and equal.

だからある種自然を否定しちゃうし

So in a way, it denies nature.

アイデンティティも否定しちゃいますよね

It can also deny your identity, right?

だっていいと思っていることを社会が批判するんだから

Because society criticizes what I think is good.

なんか多様性とか

Something about diversity or something.

すごい言葉のねじれがやっぱすごいあるんですよね

There really is an amazing twisting of words, isn't there?

理想の方向に向かいたいっていう気持ちは分かるんですけど

I understand the desire to move in the direction of your ideals, but...

その方向で多分正しいと思うんですけど

I think that's probably the right direction.

その向かい方が無理やり窮屈にやっていくというより

Rather than forcing it and doing it in a constrained manner,

もっといろんなものがあってみんな面白いよねっていうような

There are a lot of different things, and it's all really interesting, right?

そういうところに魅力を感じるようなコンテンツなり

Content that evokes such appeal.

そういう文化で育っていってほしいなと思うんですよね

I hope they grow up in such a culture.

だから本来多様性って言ってたらそういうことなんじゃないかな

So, if we’re really talking about diversity, isn’t that what it means?

結局ネットの進歩によって

In the end, the advancement of the internet has led to...

みんなが同じものを理想とするようになっちゃったから

It's because everyone has come to idealize the same thing.

同じになっちゃうんですよね

It becomes the same, doesn't it?

あと炎上怖いから変なことしないようになるとか

Also, because I'm scared of getting canceled, I'll try not to do anything weird.

これってずっとこのまま突き詰めていくんですかね

Is this going to be pushed to the limit just like this?

炎上はそうじゃない

The outrage is not like that.

いつか大きく変わるんですかね

Will it change a lot someday, I wonder?

でもやっぱり

But after all...

こう思ってる人はいっぱいいるじゃないですかきっと

I'm sure there are many people who think like this.

それが得意点を迎えるとやっぱあるんじゃない

When it reaches its strong points, there is definitely something there, right?

逆転現象みたいなバックラッシュというか

It's like a backlash that feels like a reversal phenomenon.

今なんか起きかかってるような気もするんだけど

I feel like something is about to happen right now.

逆に言うと突き進んでる感じもあるというか

Conversely, it also feels like there's a sense of moving forward.

だから結構瀬戸際な感じ

So it feels quite precarious.

でも田田さんおっしゃるようにやっぱりSNSが一つの基準にはなってて

However, as Mr. Tada said, social media has become one standard.

だから前々から言ってる通りやっぱあれですね

So, as I've been saying for a while now, it's definitely that.

SNS悪くない

Social media isn't that bad.

でやるっていうかを僕らの

It's about doing it, or rather, us.

最近思ったんですけど

I've been thinking lately...

ネットでディスっちゃいけないものっていろいろ増えてる中で

Among the various things that shouldn't be criticized online,

唯一最後の取り出だったのが男おっさんだったんですよ

The only last resort was that old man.

それがこの間

That was the other day.

来ましたよね

You came, didn't you?

匂いのやつで

The one with the smell.

来ましたねこれね

This has arrived, hasn't it?

初めて男がそれをダメってなったんですよ

For the first time, a man said that it was no good.

最後のそこが全部のスケープごと取り出だったのに

In the end, that was all just part of the entire escape.

それが壊れたから逆にリセットするんじゃないかなっていう期待はありません

I don't have any expectation that it will be reset just because it broke.

だからどうなんすよね

So what does that mean, then?

違い封建だったから全てのカルマをそこに背負わせてたんだけど

Because it was a feudal difference, I was putting all the karma on it.

それがやっぱ言えなく一部の過激なフェミンの人たちも言えなくなっちゃったから

That's why some of the radical feminists, in the end, can't speak out either.

逃げ場がなくなって

With no place to escape.

もうなんか当たる場所がないじゃないかみたいな

It's like there's really nowhere left to hit.

じゃあやめちまえこんなもんみたいな

Then just quit it, something like that.

あれで初めて平等になったんじゃないかと思ってましたね

I thought that was when equality was first achieved.

あれ結構だから結構ショッキングな雰囲気はありましたよね

That had quite a shocking atmosphere, didn't it?

男性たちが

The men are

声を揃えて

In unison

女性の方もフォローしてくれてる人とかいましたけど

There were also some women who were following me.

あれ自体は僕は全然よくわかんないけど

I don't really understand that at all.

結果的にあの動きに関してはリセットするきっかけになるかなと

As a result, I think that movement could serve as a catalyst for resetting things.

なるかもしれないですね

It might happen.

結局描いてた世界観これでよかったんだ結果が

In the end, it turned out that the world view I was drawing was indeed good.

すごい複雑な顔してる人は多いでしょうね

There are probably many people with very complex faces.

あの状況みたいな

Like that situation.

本当そうですよね

That's so true, isn't it?

だからなんかやっぱり

So, somehow after all...

そのめっちゃ表面的な合理性とか倫理観とか

That very superficial rationality and sense of ethics.

ある種なんかこれはだから

In a way, this is somewhat...

一般的にこうでしょうみたいな感覚を押し付けすぎると

If you impose too much of a sense of what is generally accepted...

やっぱなんかこうどんどん歪んできて

After all, it’s starting to get more and more distorted.

その歪みに耐えられなくて暴発しちゃうみたいな

It seems like it's going to explode because it can't withstand that distortion.

あとやっぱもっと過激な人が出てきちゃう

And then, more extreme people will probably show up.

あのなんていうのそのもっとやばいやつが出てきちゃう

Um, how should I say this, a more intense one is going to come out.

引き金にもなってきちゃうみたいな

It seems like it's becoming a trigger too.

そういうのもなりかねないから

Because that kind of thing could happen too.

そういうのも嫌なんですよ

I don't like that kind of thing either.

だからある程度のその全部が全部きれいに整えるのはやっぱ無理じゃないですか

So it's really impossible to make everything completely perfect to some extent, isn't it?

人種差別もあのこの見た目の差別も絶対無理じゃないですか

Racism and discrimination based on appearance are absolutely unacceptable, aren't they?

なんかそのなんていうの

Well, how should I put it...

あのこの領域は超えられ超えない方がいいよねっていう

It's better not to cross that boundary, right?

そこをこう整えてくれるのがやっぱ倫理観だと思うから

I believe that what helps organize things there is ultimately a sense of ethics.

あとはそのこの前話した品性とか

Besides that, there's the character I mentioned the other day.

その感覚がすごい大事なわけで

That feeling is extremely important.

でもなんか絶対ゼロにしてるからね

But somehow they're definitely setting it to zero.

ゼロにしようとするもう本当にこう貧困法制絶対ダメみたいな

Trying to reduce it to zero, it really feels like this poverty legislation is absolutely unacceptable.

絶対許さんみたいなやったやつは全員で叩き殺すみたいな感じにしちゃうと

If we act like we're going to beat and kill anyone who seems like they won't be forgiven, then...

結局やっぱすげえやばいやつがもうすごい頭おかしい人が出てくる可能性もありますからね

In the end, there's a possibility that some really crazy and dangerous people will show up.

だからそうなるとやっぱりディストピアになっていっちゃうから

So, if that's the case, it will inevitably lead to a dystopia.

そのね判断基準をやっぱ養わなきゃいけない時代なんだと思うんですよね

I think it's a time when we really need to cultivate that standard of judgment.

はいはいはい

Yes, yes, yes.

だからやっぱりね僕は古典

So after all, I really like classics.

古典

Classics

一回やっぱ古典に戻って

Let's go back to the classics once.

古典から教わることやっぱ

What we can learn from the classics is, after all, important.

学ぶこと本当多いと思ったんです

I thought there is really a lot to learn.

だから僕保守に今なっていってるっていうのはあるんですけど

So there is a reason why I am becoming more conservative now.

古典は時代に左右されませんからね

Classics are not swayed by the times, you see.

そうそうそうそう

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

でね皆さんやっぱもしかしたら

Well, everyone, maybe after all...

古い人のことバカにしてる人もいるかもしれないですけど

There might be people who are making fun of old people, but...

昔結構同じことみんなやってるんですよ

In the past, everyone was doing pretty much the same thing.

なんかこのカフカの時代も

Somehow, this era of Kafka's...

同じ今の現代と同じ悩みを抱えてるから

Because we have the same worries as now in modern times.

カフカはこの本を書いたわけで

Kafka wrote this book because

で複雑にありももう何十年も前の

It is complicated and has been for decades.

人で何十年も前

Decades ago in human terms.

何十年も前の本ですけど

It's a book from many decades ago, but...

同じこと考えてて

I was thinking the same thing.

で複雑にあり偉いなと思うのは

It's complex, and I think it's admirable.

そのもう昭和の初期とかでも

Even in the early Showa era...

ポリコレ的な感覚はあったんですって

They said they had a sense of political correctness.

でこれを言ったら

So, when I said this...

絶対に皆さんに怒られるかもしれないけど

I might definitely get scolded by everyone, but...

絶対言わなきゃいけないからっていう前提で書いてる本なんです

This is a book written on the premise that I absolutely have to say it.

だから怒られるっていう感覚がこの人は持ってたんですよ

So this person had the feeling that they would get scolded.

ブスは幸せになれないみたいな

It seems that ugly people can't be happy.

ちょっとそれ言い方はねちょっときついと思うんだけど

I think the way you said that is a bit harsh.

うん

Yeah.

だから

So.

あの今が今の現代の感覚でアップデートされてるっていうのは

The fact that this is updated with the sensibilities of the present time.

結構バイアスがかかってると思ってて

I think there's quite a bit of bias.

昔は昔で同じ問題があって

In the past, there was the same problem.

昔も対峙してそういうのをどういう風に解決しようかって

In the past, we faced such situations and wondered how to resolve them.

考えた人たちはいっぱいいるから

There are many people who have thought about it.

結構古典を読むと

When I read quite a bit of classical literature,

再解釈というかね

It's more like a reinterpretation.

現代的に解釈できることが

Can be interpreted in a modern way.

多いんだなっていうのをやっぱ

I guess there are a lot of them, after all.

感じたというね

It's said that they felt it.

話ですよ

It's a story.

僕も結構乗っかっちゃいましたけど

I also got quite into it.

もう何の回だったか分かんない

I don't even know what episode it is anymore.

いやもう分かんなかったですね

Well, I didn't understand it at all.

本の紹介の回だったんですけど

It was a session for introducing books.

結局また思想の話をしてるっていうことで

In the end, we're talking about ideas again.

でちょっとね

Well, you know...

すいません

Excuse me.

本の本題の方に戻して

Let's get back to the main topic of the book.

ちょっとね本の紹介

Let me introduce a book a little.

っていうとこで一応この2冊を今回

So, with that being said, I’ll go ahead and present these two books this time.

取り上げたんですけど

I brought it up, but...

もちろんね多角的ないろんな本も読んで

Of course, I read various books from multiple perspectives.

もっとおすすめすると

If I were to recommend more.

おすすめしたい本

A book I would like to recommend.

でまたちょっとね

Well, just a little bit more.

僕の悪い癖で

It's my bad habit.

左寄りの批判みたいな

It’s like a left-leaning criticism.

ニュアンスも入っちゃいましたけど

It also has some nuances, though.

ただ経緯化としては

However, as for the background,

僕もやっぱりもともと実存主義的な

I also find myself fundamentally existentialist after all.

割とさはやおりの

It’s relatively quick to fall.

感覚もあって別にそこは共感してる

I have a feeling, and I empathize with that.

っていう話もちょっと

Just a little bit of that story.

今日したかったということで

Because I wanted to do it today.

締まりがいいですから

Because it is well-fitting.

自分でも着地点が分からない

I don't even know where to land.

ありがとうございました

Thank you very much.

でもね僕はカフカのこと

But you see, I think about Kafka.

昔の遠い記憶だったんで

It was a distant memory from long ago.

すごいクリアになりましたし勉強になりました

It became really clear, and I learned a lot.

なんかね

Well, you know...

僕は結構人間的に好きなんですよ

I actually like you quite a bit as a person.

カフカは

Kafka is

なんかしっぽりしてるじゃないですか

Isn't it cozy?

イケメンだしね

He's handsome, after all.

イケメンって見た目の話を早速

The discussion about "ikemen" (handsome men) is starting with looks right away.

しちゃってますけど

I'm already doing it.

いいですね

That's good.

最後台無しにするっていう

It's going to end up in a mess.

いいですねこのオチがちょうど

This punchline is just perfect.

しょうもないオチが

A pointless punchline.

お便りのね紹介

Introduction of the correspondence.

そうね

That's right.

回答っていう感じの回ですね

It feels like a response kind of episode.

そうですね

That's right.

お便りいただいててね

I received your letter.

今度また紹介

I'll introduce you again next time.

そうなんですよ

That's right.

渡さんがね結構そのお便りで

Wata-san mentioned quite a bit in that letter.

膨らませて話してくれそうだったんで

I thought you might be able to elaborate and speak more about it.

お便りいただいたら見てるんで

I'll be looking at it if you send me a message.

今後ちょっとご紹介しますんで

I will introduce it to you a bit later.

なんか割とボクらが番組で話したら

If we talk about it on the show...

お便りくれるんだなということに

It's the fact that you're writing to me.

気づいたんで

I realized.

そうなんですよ

That's right.

すごい嬉しいんで

I'm really happy.

嬉しいんでね

I'm happy!

ちょっとぜひちゃんと一つ一つね

Please make sure to take each one carefully.

ご回答みたいなのをして

Please give me an answer like that.

そうですよね

That's right.

ご回答かご紹介かみたいなのが一つ一つあるからね

Each one has something like a response or introduction, you know.

もし紹介してほしくないよっていう人がいたら

If there are people who don't want to be introduced, then...

紹介したくないっていうやつに

To someone who says they don't want to be introduced.

フォームでチェックしてもらえれば大丈夫なんで

It's fine as long as you can check it on the form.

紹介しなくても感想を言いたいよって人も

Even those who want to express their opinions without needing an introduction.

送っていただけたら

If you could send it.

ぜひテーマを提案したいっていうのがあったら

If you have a theme you would like to suggest, please do.

見ていただけたらね

If you could take a look.

僕らこういううだうだ長話で返しますんで

We'll respond with this kind of long-winded conversation.

全然参考にならないかもしれないですけど

It might not be helpful at all, but...

ぜひいただけたらなと思うので

I would love to receive it if possible.

よろしくお願いします

Thank you in advance.

はいじゃあ終わります

Okay, then I'll finish up.

ありがとうございました

Thank you very much.

ご視聴ありがとうございました

Thank you for watching.