160. 私をひっくり返す本ってありますか？～ のりだーさんがピンチヒッターで来てくれたよ♪～

マイトとアヤナルのラジオブックテラス

Maito and Ayanaru's Radio Book Terrace

で今回は

This time,

アヤナルピンチヒッター回ということで

"This is the Ayana Ripple pinch hitter edition."

前回に引き続き

Continuing from the last time.

愛しのブッグのりださんに来ていただいております

We have the beloved Bugg Norida-san here with us.

よろしくお願いします

Thank you in advance.

のりだです

This is Norida.

よろしくお願いします

Thank you in advance.

はいというわけで

Well then,

前回はのりださんが

Last time, Norida-san was...

1日フリーの時に買った本のお話を

A story about the book I bought on my day off.

たっぷりなんか経緯というか

It's like there's a lot of background or context.

順番まで細かく思い出していただきながらという

"While recalling even the order in detail."

はい

Yes

そうですよ

That's right.

意外とでもレアだと思いますよ

I think it's surprisingly rare.

こんなになんか本屋行って

"Going to a bookstore like this..."

どこから見てどの本を買って

"Where are you looking from and which book are you buying?"

回っていってっていう実況中継的な

It's like a commentary that goes around.

お話されることあんまり聞いたことないですからね

I haven't really heard you talk much about it.

へー

Oh really?

こんなん買いましたとかはありますけど

I do have things like "I bought this."

うんうんうん

Uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh.

喋ることないですね私は

I don't have anything to talk about.

うんそうなんですよ

Yeah, that's right.

結構貴重だなと思って聞いてたんですけど

I was listening, thinking it's quite valuable.

パンケーキ食べたじゃないですか本買った時に

You ate pancakes when you bought the book, didn't you?

はい

Yes

パンケーキ食べて

Please eat pancakes.

はい

Yes

映画を見に行ったんですよ

I went to see a movie.

ルックバックを

Look Back

ビール飲みながらね

While drinking beer.

はいはい

Yes, yes.

映画見て

Watch a movie.

その後

After that

お風呂に入りに行って

I'm going to take a bath.

おーはいはい

Oh, okay.

で

So, / Well then, / And then, / Thus,

もうヘベレ系

I'm already tipsy.

脱水症状で帰ってくるみたいなところまでが

It seems like it's to the point of coming back with dehydration symptoms.

セットでございまして

It's a set.

その道中も買った本を

On the way, I read the book I bought.

まいとさんの教えに沿って

In accordance with Mai's teachings.

買った日のうちに

On the day of purchase.

絶対1ページ読めみたいな

"I absolutely want you to read at least one page."

はいはいはいはい

Yes, yes, yes, yes.

私の中に刷り込まれてて

It's ingrained in me.

ありがとうございます

Thank you.

パンケーキ食べながら読んでるし

I'm reading while eating pancakes.

道中も読んでるし

I'm also reading on the way.

みたいなのをこの

Something like this.

5冊

5 books

その1日

That day.

はい

Yes

かなり刻み込まれた

Deeply etched.

日でございましたよ

It was a day.

相当浸透してますね

It’s quite permeated, isn’t it?

僕の

My

確かにこの番組で何回も言ったもんな

I've definitely said this many times on this show.

ありがとうございます

Thank you.

ありがとうございますこちらこそ

Thank you, the pleasure is mine.

はい嬉しいです

Yes, I am happy.

はいというわけで改めまして

Well then, let me say this again.

今回どんな話いきましょうか

What story shall we talk about this time?

今回はですね

This time, you see.

この5冊

These five books.

4冊は読み終わって

I have finished reading 4 books.

はいはい

Yes, yes.

なんで

Why?

次何読もうかなって話を

I was talking about what to read next.

まいとさんとね是非できたらと思うんですけど

I would definitely like to do it with Mai-to-san if possible.

いやめっちゃいい話じゃないですか

No, it's a really great story, isn't it?

めっちゃテンション上がりますよそういうの

That really gets me excited!

テンション上がります?

Are you feeling excited?

上がりますよ

I will rise.

せっかくなんでね

Since we're at it, you know.

はい

Yes.

で切り口としては

As for the perspective/approach...

できればねこの

If possible, a cat.

奥野さん的な

Like Okuno-san.

はい

Yes

的な

-like

人類学

Anthropology

人類学系がいいですけども

I'm good with anthropology.

はい

Yes

皆さんどうですか?

How is everyone doing?

人類学?

Anthropology?

人類学は今そういうタイトルの本いっぱいあるからなぁ

There are a lot of books with that kind of title in anthropology now.

人類学って言ってもどんなところに惹かれてるんですか?

What aspects of anthropology are you drawn to?

ちなみにですね

By the way,

はい

Yes

そうですね

That's right.

最近これとまた別な本で読んでるのが

Recently, I have been reading this along with another book.

読んで読み終わったのが

I finished reading it.

はい

Yes

あの生の文脈っていう

That live context.

ほう

Oh.

もうちょっと

A little more.

ほうほうほうほうほうほう

Hmm, hmm, hmm, hmm, hmm, hmm.

珍しい本で

It's a rare book.

ほうほう

I see.

2003年に出てる本なんですけどね

It's a book that was published in 2003.

ほうほうほうほうほう

Hmm, hmm, hmm, hmm, hmm.

はい

Yes

へぇー

Oh really?

これかなぁ

Is this it?

あ

Ah

ほうほうほう

Hmm, hmm, hmm.

それー

That's it!

私

I

むちゃくちゃ刺さりましたね

That really hit hard.

おぉ

Oh!

面白そうこれも

This looks interesting too.

生の文脈良かったです

The raw context was good.

うん

Yeah.

おぉー

Ohh!

なんか人類学って言うから

I heard it's called anthropology.

あの文化人類学系統と言うから

Because they refer to that as cultural anthropology.

どちらかと言うと

Rather, I would say.

綾鳴的な切り口とか

Ayanari-like approach or perspective.

そういう話なのかなと

I wonder if that's the kind of story it is.

そのいろんな世界にいる

I am in that various world.

なんていうか

How should I put it?

その人たちだけで成り立つルールだけど

It's a rule that only applies to those people.

結構その

Well, that…

幸福感がある人たちの

People who have a sense of happiness.

あの生活を知るみたいな話なのかなとか思ったんですけど

I was wondering if it's a story about knowing that kind of life.

どっちかって言うとそうじゃなくてもなんか

If anything, it's more like...

そもそも人類そのものの話を

Let's talk about humanity itself.

みたいな感じですか

Is it like that?

なんか聞くと

When I hear something like that

どうっすかね

How about it?

私ひっくり返りたいんですよねずっと

I want to turn things upside down, you know.

はい?

Yes?

寝返りの赤ちゃんみたいな話になるのかなと思ったけど

I thought it might turn into a story like a rolling-over baby, but...

そういうことじゃなく

It's not that kind of thing.

そういうことじゃないです

That's not what I mean.

はい

Yes

ひっくり返りたいんです

I want to turn over.

どうですか

How is it?

はい

Yes

私大学3年生くらいから

I became like this around my third year of university.

はい

Yes

その

that

認識とか哲学の本

Books on cognition and philosophy.

おぉ

Oh!

ゆいゆい紹介する本ですね

This is a book that introduces Yui Yui.

エントリーするような本

A book that is suitable for entry-level.

うんうん

Uh-huh.

を読んでいるんですけど

I am reading it, but...

はい

Yes

やっぱそういうのってこう

I guess that's how it is.

なんだろうな例えば

I wonder what it is, for example.

こういう考え方があって

There is this way of thinking.

はいはい

Yes, yes.

宇宙とパロールだなんて

"Talking about the universe and parole."

あーはいはいはいはい

Ah, yes, yes, yes, yes.

みたいな話があるじゃないですか

There's that kind of story, right?

はいはい

Yes, yes.

そんな考え方があるんだみたいな

That's an interesting way of thinking.

世界の見え方っていろいろあんなーっていう

There are many ways to see the world, aren't there?

うんうんうんうんうん

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

そういう切り口

That kind of perspective.

うんうん

Yeah, yeah.

新しい切り口で世の中見ましょうみたいな

Let's look at the world from a new perspective.

うんうんうん

Uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh.

いうのが好きなんですよね

I like to say that.

はいはい

Yes, yes.

だからその

So, um...

さっき紹介した性の文脈ってやつも

The context of sex that I mentioned earlier.

はい

Yes

この一夫一妻制の是非までを言わないんですけど

I'm not going to comment on the pros and cons of this monogamous system.

はいはいはい

Yes, yes, yes.

この限界とか

This limit or boundary.

はい

Yes.

そうじゃない社会がどうなってるかとかね

It's about what a society that isn't like that is like.

うんうんうん

Uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh.

そういうなんか

Something like that.

一般的と言われてるもの

What is said to be common.

うん

Yeah.

が

but

どう一般的じゃないかみたいな

It's not really that common, is it?

うんうんうんうんうん

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

いうのに触れるのが好きで

I like to touch on what is said.

おーなるほどなーはいはい

Oh, I see! Yes, yes.

ちょっと変態なのかもしれないですね

You might be a little perverted.

まあまあまあまあ

Well, well, well, well.

こんだけポッドキャストやってる人たちが

People who are doing podcasts like this

普通の感覚じゃない

It's not a normal feeling.

僕が言うといてなんか自分でちょっと

I'll say it, but I'll keep it to myself a bit.

察しましたけど自分を

I understood, but myself.

ははははは

Hahahaha

うん

Yeah.

なるほどねー

I see.

っていう本があれば教えてほしいですし

If there's a book like that, I would like to know.

うん

Yeah.

まああと普通に今回

Well, this time it's just normal.

めちゃくちゃ久しぶりにミステリーとか読んだんで

It's been forever since I read a mystery or something.

あーはい

Ah, yes.

なんかその辺でもいいです

Anywhere around there is fine.

あーなるほど

Ah, I see.

えーとまず一つ目の話でいくと

Well, to start with the first topic...

まあ読まれてるかもしれないですけど

Well, it may be read.

視点というリベラルアーツ

The Liberal Arts of Perspective

ちょっとだいぶ前になりましたけど

It was quite a while ago, but...

あのーアースコープの

Um, the Earth Scope's...

アースコープのやつ

The thing from EarthScope.

はい

Yes.

読んでないな確かに

I definitely haven't read it.

今の話にアイコール多分視点の話をしてるんだと思うんですよあの時の

I think we're probably talking about perspectives in the current conversation, from that time.

はいはいはい

Yes, yes, yes.

アースコープっていうところの

It's a place called Earth Scope.

そうですね

That's right.

はい

Yes

どの視点から見るかっていうのが大事でっていう話していて

It's important to consider from which perspective you're looking at things.

それがもうそのまま哲学

That itself is philosophy.

に繋がる要素だっていう話を確かしてましたけども

It was confirmed that it is an element that connects to.

まさになんかそのイメージだったんで視点というリベラルアーツかなって今

That's exactly the kind of image I had, so I thought of perspective as a liberal art.

へーおめでとうございます

Oh, congratulations!

はい

Yes

確かに買ってないななんで買ってないんだろう

I definitely haven't bought it. I wonder why I haven't bought it.

アースコープで聞いたからいいかなみたいなことをお伝えして

I heard it from EarthScope, so I thought it would be okay to convey that.

はいまあ確かにそれはあるかもしれない

Yes, that might be the case.

あとはえー学びの基本シリーズ

The rest is, um, the Basic Learning Series.

あのNHK出版から出てる

It's published by NHK Publishing.

へー

Oh really?

あのー東京大阪の新幹線の中で読み終われるぐらいの分量っていうコンセプトで

Um, the concept is that it's of a volume that you can finish reading on the Shinkansen between Tokyo and Osaka.

うん

Yeah.

作られてるもう20冊ぐらい出てるシリーズですけど

It's a series that has already produced about 20 volumes.

うん

Yeah.

はい手軽に読めてしかも結構どの本もあのパンチの効いてる内容の本ばっかりなんで

Yes, they are easy to read and quite a few of the books have really impactful content.

へーそうですね

Oh, really?

はい

Yes

この表に

In this table

私は見たことありますよ

I have seen it.

はいはい

Yes, yes.

はいはいはいはいはい

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

へーちょっとじゃあ何か選んでみます

Hmm, well then, I'll try choosing something.

うんあの引っかかったタイトルって全然いいと思います

Yeah, I think that catchy title is really good.

うんうんうん

Hmm, hmm, hmm.

ペニニズムも確かあったし

There was certainly also peninism.

うーん

Hmm.

いいっすね

That's nice!

うん

Yeah.

今の話みたいにどうしてもそのさっき視点かなってお話をしたんですけど

I was talking about how it seems like we really need to consider that perspective, like in the previous discussion.

はい

Yes

なんかその徹底的にその特定の部族とかを500ページ600ページ分ぐらい書いてガチで解説してる本とかっていうよりは

Rather than a book that thoroughly discusses a specific tribe for about 500 or 600 pages with serious explanations,

あこういうのがあるんだっていうなんか一つのライトな気づきみたいなのが

"Oh, it's like a light realization that something like this exists."

得やすい本って考えるとそういうシリーズかなと思って

When I think of easily obtainable books, I guess it's that kind of series.

うんうんうんうんうん

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

そうかもしれないです

That might be the case.

はい

Yes

でその著者がもし興味あったら今度はその

If the author is interested, next time...

その著者の本を読みに行くみたいなその流れいいんじゃないかなっていう気はするので

I feel like that flow of going to read that author's book is good.

へーうんうんうん

Oh really, uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh.

私今学びの基本見てるんですけど

I'm currently looking at the basics of learning.

はい

Yes.

松浦圭一郎先生いますね

Mr. Keiichiro Matsuura is here.

はいいらっしゃいますね

Yes, you're here.

俺は買いますね多分

I'll probably buy it.

おーおーはい

Oh, oh yes.

まあ植野千鶴子さんもいらっしゃるんですね

Well, Chizuko Ueno is also here, huh?

あーそうですね

Ah, I see.

安圭さんもいらっしゃる

Ange is also here.

はいそうですそうです

Yes, that's right.

いいじゃないですか

Isn't that great?

はい

Yes

哲学関連も何人もいらっしゃいますからね

There are quite a few people related to philosophy, after all.

うんうんうんうん

Uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh.

ねえでもひっくり返したいっていうのはちょっと吹き出しそうになるけど

Hey, but wanting to turn it upside down is a bit hilarious.

結構パンチの効いた願望ですねそれ

That's quite a punchy desire, isn't it?

いやーなんなんすかね

Well, what is it, I wonder?

うわーってなりたいですよね

I want to be like "Whoa!"

あの前同じようにピンチヒーターで来てくれたあのねぼやんねぼすけさんいたんですけど

There was someone who came with a pinch heater like that before, a sleepyhead.

うんうんうんうん

Uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh.

俺を任してくれとみたいなこと言ってましたからね

He said something like "leave it to me."

降参したいと俺を任してくれとみたいなこと言ってましたけどなんかそこに通じる感じありますね

"I want to surrender, so let me handle it," is what you said, but there seems to be a feeling that connects to that.

ありがとうございます

Thank you.

そこになんか通じると言っていただけると

If you could say that it somehow connects there.

はい

Yes

光栄ですねなんか

It's kind of an honor, isn't it?

はい

Yes

まあでも本って割と任されやすい堂々と任されやすいじゃないですか他の例えば対人関係とかで負けるとクソーとかって思ったりしますけど本だったらしょうがないって思いますもん

Well, books are quite easy to be entrusted with, and it's rather straightforward to be given that responsibility. In other areas, like interpersonal relationships, if you fail, you might feel frustrated, but with books, you just think it's unavoidable.

はい

Yes

基本的に詳しいというかね先生が先生たちが書くことだから

Basically, it’s detailed because the teachers are the ones writing it.

はい

Yes.

通じるんですよね

It connects, doesn't it?

はい

Yes.

でもう一つの方かもう一つの方どうしましょうかね

What should we do about the other one?

もう一つの方どうしましょうかね

What should we do about the other one?

もうちょっと詳しく聞いてもいいですかさっきのやつ

Can I ask a little more detail about what we discussed earlier?

いいですよいいですよ

It's fine, it's fine.

はい

Yes

なんだろうな

I wonder what it is.

なんかえぐい話だな

That's quite a brutal story.

えぐい話がいいですね

A gruesome story would be nice.

えぐい話あえぐい方いっちゃうんだあーそうかそうか僕ね最初考えてたのはあの謎解きやディナーの後での新シリーズ始まったんですよ

It's a shocking story. So that's how it is. What I was thinking at first was that a new series started after the puzzle-solving and dinner.

そっちかなっていうのとあとビブリアコ書道も新シリーズ始まったんで

I was thinking it might be that, and also a new series of Biburiaco calligraphy has started.

ドラマ化されてますね

It's being made into a drama, isn't it?

はいドラマ化も映画化もされてるやつででもう娘さんのシリーズになってるんですよ

Yes, it has been adapted into both a drama and a movie, and it has become a series featuring the daughter.

そのシリーズもありかなとはちょっと思ったんですけど

I thought that series might be an option too.

そう思ったんですけど

I thought so, but...

あとミステリティ行くんだったらあれじゃないですか

If you're going to the mystery tea party, isn't it that?

古典部シリーズ鉄板ですけど

The Classic Literature Club series is a sure hit, isn't it?

古典部ってそれは昔の方の方の古典ですね

"The Classic Literature Club, that refers to the classic literature from the past, right?"

古典ラジオの古典じゃなくて本当に普通の古典の方の学生4人がその秦事件を解決するちょっと青春ジュヴナイルシリーズで古典部シリーズっていうのがあるんですよ

There is a series called the Classic Club series, which is a bit of a youth juvenile series where four students who are not from the classic radio but are actually from regular classic literature solve the Qin incident.

第1作目は評価って言うんですけど氷のお菓子って書くやつ

The first work is called "evaluation," but it refers to a writing piece about ice confections.

評価ってあの評価ですか

Is that the evaluation you are talking about?

あの氷に菓子って書くやつですね

That's the one where you write sweets on the ice, right?

これアニメ化もされてますね

This has also been adapted into an anime.

ですよね

That's right.

見てはないですけど

I haven't seen it, but...

古典部シリーズってもう読者の間では読んでますけど

The Classic Literature Club series is already being read among readers, isn't it?

一応タイトルは一作一作全部違います

Each title is different for each work, just to let you know.

人が死ぬとかっていうことではないんですけど

It's not about people dying, but...

なんでこの事件が起きるみたいなのを

"Why do you think this incident is happening?"

その謎をなんとなく解いていく

I somehow unravel that mystery.

僕の大好きなミステリーシリーズですね

It's my favorite mystery series.

そうなんですね

I see.

えぐいやつじゃなくてないんですけど

It's not something harsh, though.

ありがとうございます

Thank you.

ミステリーはそんなに読まないので

I don't read mysteries that much.

そうなんですか

Is that so?

こう言うと怒られると思うんだけど

I think I’ll get scolded for saying this, but...

謎解きのところばっかりに焦点が当たっちゃうと

If the focus is only on the riddle-solving part...

なんかもう

I don't know.

後ろから読んじゃえばいいじゃん

You can just read it from the back.

とかって思っちゃうタイプなので

I'm the type who thinks like that.

なるほどなるほど

I see, I see.

はいでどうしてももうゴール決まってるじゃないですか

Yes, but the goal is already set, isn't it?

お尻がなんかいろんなことがあって

There are various things going on with my butt.

最後謎解いてみたいな

I want to solve the mystery at the end.

そのパターンばっかりになっちゃったんで

It's turned into just that pattern.

一時いろいろ読んだんですけど

I read various things for a while, but...

あまりそこになんか楽しみを覚えられなくなっちゃって

I can't seem to find much joy in that anymore.

まあライトのやつを割と読んでる

Well, I'm reading quite a bit of light novels.

まあまあ物語的な

Well, it's somewhat narrative.

そうですね

That's right.

接触してるって感じですね

It feels like we're in contact.

そうですねもう近代一少年とかも

Well, it's kind of like the modern-day Ichinose.

コナンとかだいぶ読んでますから僕も

I've read quite a bit of Conan myself.

だからまあまあもう本ではそこまであんまり読んでないかな

Well, I haven't really read that much in books anyway.

というのとあとミステリーって今も

That and also, mystery is still...

ジャンルメインジャンルじゃなくなってきてる部分もあって

There are parts that are no longer the main genre.

例えば歴史小説にもミステリー要素を入れた歴史ミステリーなんていうジャンルっぽいものができてたりしますし

For example, there seems to be a genre called historical mystery that combines elements of mystery with historical novels.

あといろんな本でもそのミステリー要素を入れた

I also included that mystery element in various other books.

例えばビジネス書でもミステリー要素を入れた本とかが出てきたりっていう風に

For example, there have been books in the business genre that incorporate mystery elements.

なんかくっつける材料みたいな感じになってきてるので

It feels like it's becoming something that sticks things together.

まあそういう意味でいくと純粋なミステリー作品は読んでなくても

Well, in that sense, even if you haven't read a pure mystery work...

ミステリー要素はなんかいろんな本で摂取してるかもなっていう気はしますね

I feel like I've consumed mystery elements from various books.

っていうのがあるからあんまりミステリーだけ読もうって思わないのかもしれないですね

That might be why I don't really think about just reading mysteries.

参考になれば

If it helps.

評価は評価ってよく聞くけど

I've often heard that evaluation is just evaluation.

アニメとかもよくやってたけど

I used to watch anime a lot too.

ノータッチっていうのがあったんで

There was something called "no touch."

ねえこういうきっかけにちょっと

Hey, in situations like this, just a little...

あ

Ah

いっちゃおうかな

Shall I go for it?

うんうんありがとうございますもう

Yes, yes, thank you already.

じわっとくる名フレーズが何個も出てくる

Many poignant phrases come to mind one after another.

はい

Yes

やつですから

Because it's that guy.

もう完結を僕は待ってます

I am already waiting for the conclusion.

まだ終わって

Not finished yet.

まあ5本著者曰く

Well, according to the author of the five books.

一応最後というか

Just to confirm, this is the last one, or rather...

一定のとこまで書き切るつもりではいるっていう風におっしゃってたので

You mentioned that you intend to write it out to a certain point.

その次の一作がいつ来るかわかんないですけど

I don't know when the next work will come.

僕は待ってます

I am waiting.

評価シリーズ

Evaluation Series

古典部シリーズを

The Classic Literature Club series.

はい

Yes

,

,

読んでみたいなっていうのが出てくるのすごいいいですよね

It's really nice that things that make you want to read come up.

僕なんかもう

I'm nothing special.

出てこないからももはやあんまり

Since it doesn't come out, it's not much of a peach anymore.

出てこない

Not coming out.

ワイトさん読み過ぎなんじゃないですか

Aren't you reading a bit too much, Wright-san?

ちょっと

Just a little.

だから読み過ぎのジャンルが

So, the genre of reading too much...

結局一周回ってまた偏ってるなっていう自覚はすっごいありますよ

In the end, I really feel that I've just come back around to being biased again.

うん

Yeah.

どこに偏ってるんですか

Where is it biased?

結局今読んでるのって

In the end, what I'm reading now is...

歴史もの

Historical genre

えーと人文学系

Um, the humanities field.

哲学系

Philosophy-related

まあまあまあ

Well, well, well.

あとはまあそれに類するもの

And then, well, things similar to that.

エッセイとかまあその類のものとかがあって

There are essays and things like that.

文学ものとか

Things like literature.

なんかそういうのちゃんと読もうって僕確か一昨年も言ったし去年も言ってたような気がするんだけど

I feel like I said something like that and that I should properly read those kinds of things back in the year before last and last year too.

あれおかしいなあんまちゃんと読んだ記憶がねえなあっていうのがあって

That's strange, I don't really remember reading it very well.

っていう

That is to say.

っていうような気持ちになってきてて

I've started to feel that way.

あの最近流行りのあの韓国の

That trendy Korean thing recently.

作家さんが書いた

Written by the author.

あのエッセイとか小説とかちょっとブームな

That essay and novel are a bit of a trend.

ブームというかいろんなところで出てるんですけど

It's more of a boom, and it's appearing in various places.

あれもね

That too.

あれもね思ったほど手出せてない

I haven't been able to get involved with that as much as I thought.

あの本屋大将とか直木賞とか取ったやつも意外とそんなに読めてない

That bookstore owner and the Naoki Prize winners surprisingly haven't read that much either.

一周回ってうちの母親が図書館で借りた本を

After going around in circles, the book my mother borrowed from the library.

ちょっとパラッと読ませてもらって面白いじゃんって言われて

I was told that it was interesting after reading a bit quickly.

言って買うみたいな

It's like saying you want to buy it.

いうようなことが起きてるぐらいなので

Since something like that is happening

さすがに少し反省してます

I do feel a bit regretful, as expected.

ごめんなさい

I'm sorry.

今度こそちゃんと読もうって思ったんですけど

I thought I would really read it properly this time.

もう9月まで来ちゃって

It's already come to September.

いやおかしいな

Well, that's strange.

今年再読をちゃんとやるとか言っておきながら

"While saying that I would properly re-read this year..."

再読もあんまりちゃんとできてなくて

I haven't been able to properly re-read it either.

9月になっちゃってるなあ

It's already September.

あれおかしいなあ

That's weird.

むしろ漫画読んでるな今年たくさんみたいな

Rather, it feels like I've been reading a lot of manga this year.

こんな感じになってますよ

It's looking like this.

まあでも自分が好きなものを読むのが一番楽しいじゃないですか

Well, but reading things you like is the most fun, isn't it?

そうなんですよね

That's right.

時々興味があるもの

Things I'm occasionally interested in.

はいはいはいはい

Yes yes yes yes.

そうなんですよ

That's right.

それがちゃんとあればいいんですけどね

It would be nice if that were properly in place.

そこにたどり着くまでが意外と大変で

Getting there turns out to be surprisingly difficult.

でもね

But you know.

ここにちょうど収録今してる前日にね

This is just the day before the recording.

あのどんぴしゃな本を2冊出あっちゃって

I just happened to find two perfect books.

ちょっと久々に

It's been a while.

おおおおお

Ohhhhhhhh!

アンテナの立ったのと同じやつ来たーって今なってます

The same one with the antenna has just arrived!

へえ

Oh, really?

せっかくなの教えてください

Since you've gone out of your way, please tell me.

そうですかじゃあちょっと持ってきましょうか

Is that so? Well then, shall I go get it?

ちょっと待ってくださいね

Please wait a moment.

じゃあ2冊あるんですけど1冊目がこれ

Well, there are two books, but the first one is this one.

くぐり抜けの哲学

The Philosophy of Passing Through

へえ

Oh, really?

何?

What?

だってもうタイトルの時点でこれか

Well, this is already the case at the title point.

よくこのタイトルつけたなってちょっとびっくりしちゃって

I'm a little surprised that they gave it this title.

誰が書いたの?

Who wrote it?

これは稲垣さんっていうえーとこれね

This is Mr. Inagaki, um, this.

文学部の大学院の教授の方らしくて文学博士らしいんですよ

It seems like they are a professor in the graduate school of the Faculty of Literature and a Doctor of Literature.

で僕まだちょっと読めてないんですけど

But I still can't read it very well.

あの壊れながら立ち上がり続ける個の変容の哲学とかね

The philosophy of the individual's transformation that continues to stand up while breaking down, you know.

なんかその本を書いてらっしゃる方なんですけど

It seems that the person who is writing that book is...

もうタイトルで買っちゃった

I already bought it just based on the title.

ははははは

Hahaha!

そう

Yes.

びっくりしたけどね

I was surprised, though.

そう

Yeah.

もう触れるでも素通りするでもなく

Not just touching or passing by.

くぐり抜けてみるっていう

"Trying to get through."

いやーこれねこれねもうその哲学に限らず

Well, you know, this isn't limited to just philosophy...

なんかその思想的な話とか

Something about that ideological discussion or talk.

その概念に関するディスカッションとか

Discussions about that concept, etc.

それこそ対話とかやると

That's exactly when you have a dialogue, or something like that.

なんかその対立軸みたいなのがどうしてもできちゃうことってあるんですよね

Sometimes, there are situations where a kind of opposing axis inevitably arises.

まあそこまでそのガチの対立するケースってそこまでないですけどでも

Well, there aren't really that many cases of intense opposition, but still...

思想的に相反するところとか

Places where ideologies conflict.

そもそもその打ち負かすみたいな方向に行くとか

To begin with, going in a direction like defeating someone...

あとはもうそもそも避けるとか

"After that, it's basically about avoiding it."

どうしてもなんかそういう話になりがちなんですけど

It tends to be the case that we end up talking about things like that.

これどっちでもなくてくぐり抜けるっていう

This is neither one nor the other; it means to slip through.

しゃれてるっつって

It means "It's stylish, you know."

ははははは

Hahahahaha

うん

Yeah.

このタイトルの作り方がね

How to create this title, you know?

めっちゃいいなと思って

I think it's really great.

買って買って途中まで読んだんですけど

I bought it and read it halfway, but...

いや面白かったこれもなかなか

Yeah, that was interesting too.

本当ですか

Is it true?

はい

Yes

もうだってもうその章の作り方も面白くて

Because the way that chapter is structured is interesting.

クラゲをくぐり抜ける

To swim through the jellyfish.

そもそもクラゲの話し始める

Let's start talking about jellyfish in the first place.

ん?

Huh?

で現代社会をくぐり抜けて

"To navigate through modern society."

男性性をくぐり抜けて

Through masculinity.

ってやるっていう

"I'm going to do it."

でくぐり抜けたその先に何があるんだろうねっていうところで一応締めるんですけど

I’ll wrap it up here, wondering what lies beyond that passage.

でも一周待ってこれが他人を理解するための方法論みたいなところにたどり着きつつあって

"But after waiting a complete cycle, I feel like I'm arriving at a methodology for understanding others."

まだ全部読み終わってないんですけど

I haven't finished reading it all yet.

このアプローチはもうちょっとね

This approach needs a bit more.

異端で面白かった

It was heretical and interesting.

ははははは

Hahaha!

ていうのでこれですね

This is what you mean.

はい

Yes.

でもう一冊がねこれはもう話題の本ですけどね

And the other book, well, this one is already a topic of conversation.

ようやく読み始めました

I finally started reading.

生き延びるための事務

Office for survival

うーん知らないです

Hmm, I don't know.

これ実は漫画なんですけどね

Actually, this is a manga.

なに地味にね

What's with the plainness?

これ

This

で事務っていうと

When it comes to office work...

事務作業なんていうぐらいなんで

It's just called office work.

なんか単純作業というか

It's somewhat of a simple task.

なんかその仕事を

Somehow that job...

した後のその成立させるための手続きみたいな

Something like the procedures to establish it after it has been done.

ちょっと地味で面倒くさくて

It's a bit plain and bothersome.

みたいなイメージあるかもしれないですけど

You might have an image like that, but...

この本でちょっとイメージ一変にくつがりました

This book completely changed my image a little.

うーん

Hmm.

何かをやるために

In order to do something.

まずくぐり抜けなきゃいけない事務があるっていう

First, there are some paperwork that I have to get through.

ここを軽視しちゃってて

I'm overlooking this place.

やりたいことやりたいですっていうのは

I want to do what I want to do.

実はね

Actually, you see...

無駄足なんだみたいな考え方の話をしてくれていて

It seems like you're talking about a way of thinking that considers things to be a waste of effort.

うーん

Hmm.

なのでなんかこの本はねそこを漫画で

So this book kind of illustrates that with manga.

割とライトなタッチで書いてくれてるんですけど

It's written in a relatively light touch.

うん

Yeah.

うわその通りだ

Wow, that's exactly right.

事務だよ

It's office work.

ははははははは

Hahahahaha

でなりました

It became.

へーなるほど

Oh, I see.

はい

Yes

あのこのブックテラスで前に紹介したんですけど

I previously introduced this at the book terrace.

あの言論戦記っていう

That so-called "Chronicle of Verbal Warfare."

今の言論っていう

What they call current discourse.

人文学系の

humanities-related

あの雑誌を出してたり

Publishing that magazine.

言論カフェっていって

It's called a "discussion cafe."

あのイベントやるスペースとかを作ってる

I'm creating a space to hold that event.

言論っていうところの

In terms of speech...

運営やってる東さんって方がいらっしゃるんですけど

There is a person named Mr. Higashi who is managing the operation.

はい

Yes.

この方が会社もうほぼ潰すとか

This person is almost going to ruin the company.

もう破産になるとか

I'm already going bankrupt or something.

組織崩壊するとか

When the organization collapses, etc.

いろんな失敗談を書いた本があるんですけど

There is a book that contains various stories of failures.

その時に東さんが

At that moment, Mr. Higashi said...

その軽視して失敗したのがやっぱり事務だったんですよね

The failure that resulted from that disregard was indeed the office work.

事務作業で

In office work.

どうしてもそのイケイケの時に

"Why is it that at that exciting time..."

事務を軽視してたが故に

Because I underestimated the office work.

細かいところからほころびが生まれて

Frays start to emerge from the small details.

崩壊するみたいなことが起きててっていうので

It feels like something is collapsing.

ご本人が

The person themselves.

事務を軽視しすぎてたっていうのを言ってましたけど

They were saying that they were underestimating the administrative work too much.

あのそれと同じ事務ではないですが

Well, it's not the same office, but...

イメージとしてもまさに同じような話をされてるっていう

It's exactly the same kind of story being told in terms of imagery.

まずためること

First, accumulate it.

まず大事なこと

First, an important thing.

そこだけは譲れないように

I can't compromise on that point.

大切なものみたいなところを

Like something important.

まず最初に固めとくことのすごく大切さみたいなのが書いてあって

First of all, it mentions the great importance of having a solid foundation.

とても大切って

It's very important.

そういう気になりますね

It makes me feel that way.

これはね

This is it.

なんていうか

How should I put it?

ポッドキャスターは

The podcaster is

一回読んどいた方がいいって逆に思いました

I thought it might be better to read it once.

そうそうそう

That's right, that's right, that's right.

向こう水で飛び出すのもいいけどってことですよね

It's nice to jump out into the water over there, but that's what it means, right?

まあ樋口さんに勘違いさせられて

Well, I was misled by Higuchi-san.

ポッドキャスターを読めたポッドキャストですけど

It's a podcast that reads podcasts.

ここはね少なくても

At least here...

だけど

But

なんかのりざわさんはわかんないですけど

I don't really understand what Mr. Norizawa is talking about.

別にほら

Well, you see...

仕事になっているわけじゃないじゃないですか

It's not like it's become work, right?

ポッドキャストって

What is a podcast?

で

So/Well.

それなりに準備時間かけてたりするじゃないですか

You're taking a certain amount of preparation time, aren't you?

ものによっては

Depending on the item.

もうもはや我らもマイク買って

"Now we too should just buy a microphone."

自前で用意してくらいのことやってたりするから

Because I'm doing things like preparing on my own.

そうですねそうですね

That's right, that's right.

言うてもそれなりに下手すら普通に

Even so, it's still quite ordinary to be somewhat clumsy.

普通の仕事よりも手間かかってたりするじゃないですか

Isn't it more trouble than a regular job?

道具関連って

Related to tools.

まあまあまあ否めないです

Well, well, well, I can't deny that.

でなかなかモチベーションも

It's hard to find motivation.

結構続けるの大変っていって

It's quite difficult to continue, they say.

意外と1年間続ける1つ

Surprisingly, one thing that continues for a year.

続けられるのも結構大変っていう

Continuing on can be quite tough.

話もよく聞いたりしたりしますけど

I often listen to conversations and do things as well.

なんで続かないのかなっていうのは

I wonder why it doesn't continue.

モチベーションの問題とかすっげえあると思うんですが

I think there are really a lot of issues with motivation.

僕意外とこの本読んと思った

I surprisingly thought this book was worth reading.

ジムだわっつって

"It's at the gym, right?"

あのまず押さえとかなきゃいけないところを

First, we need to make sure we have the important points covered.

押さえてないから

Because I’m not holding it down.

その勢いで始めちゃって

Let's start it with that momentum!

ネタつきたっぽいところで

It seems like I'm running out of material.

優先順位が気がつくと

When I realized my priorities.

すれっと変わっちゃってるみたいな

It seems like it has changed subtly.

みたいなことがあるなと思って

I think there are things like that.

まあだから続けることが必ずしも

Well, that doesn't necessarily mean that continuing is...

絶対とは言わないですけど

I won't say it's absolute, but...

でも別にポッドキャストに限らず

But it's not limited to podcasts, anyway.

日頃の生活で

In daily life.

ああなんかこれやっときたいなと

Ah, I really want to do this.

とか

"and so on" or "etc."

えー

Uh...

さっきのその

Just now, that.

いつか本読んで感想喋りたいな

I want to read a book someday and talk about my thoughts on it.

もそうですけど

That's true, but...

なんか日々の生活の中で

Somehow, in daily life...

いやこれよりも先に仕事が

No, I have work to do before this.

とかっていう風に言った瞬間

The moment I said something like that.

どんどんどんどん後に行ったりするじゃないですか

You keep going further and further back, don't you?

でこの本でも書かれてるんですけど

It's also written in this book.

芸術とかクリエイティブなことを

Art and creative things

自分がやりたいみたいな領域の中で

Within the realm of what I want to do.

選択しようと思った時に

When I thought about making a choice

まずは

First of all

書いてみようとかじゃなくてまず

It's not about trying to write, but rather...

時間確保しようとか

"Let's make time"

まず生活を安定させようとか

First, let's stabilize our living situation.

みたいなことから

From things like that.

ちゃんと固めていくっていう

It's about properly solidifying things.

世の中の世界に名を残した芸術家も

Artists who have left their names in the world of society.

名作を書いた反面

On the other hand, having written a masterpiece.

名作を書くための時間とか

Time to write a masterpiece.

お金を確保するための事務

Office work to secure funds.

つまり

In other words,

それほどクリエイティビティを必要としないけど

It doesn't require that much creativity, but...

お金がもらえることをやってたとかっていう

It's about doing something that you can get paid for.

記録が残ってたりするんですって

I hear that records might still exist.

そういう事例を紹介しながら

While introducing such cases

見えないけどみんなやってたよ

I can't see it, but everyone was doing it.

事務っていうことを紹介しているっていう

It's introducing what being in the office means.

ことですね

It's about that.

それは絶対大切ですね

That is definitely important.

だからもうここまで来たら

So now that we've come this far,

例えば続けることを

For example, to continue.

主眼に置くんだったら

If you were to focus on the main point...

いや事務やっとかないかんなって

Well, I really have to get the office work done.

ちょっと改めて思って

Just thinking about it again.

僕は仕事を本業やりながら

I am working while doing my main job.

副業もやってたりしながら

While also doing side jobs.

ポッドキャストやってたりしながら

While doing a podcast.

仕事とかやってたりするから

Because I’m doing things like work.

やべぇ事務だそろそろ

This is bad for the office, it's about time.

って言ってた

They said that.

忙しいから

Because I'm busy.

っていうのもあるし

There are also those reasons.

その

That

なんか優先順位なんか

Something like priorities.

割と簡単に作れるんですよ

It's quite easy to make.

仕事のこと優先したり

Prioritizing work matters.

締め切りがあるものを先に

Prioritize the things with deadlines.

やっとけばいいんですけど

It would be good to do it after all.

締め切りがあるものなんて

Things that have a deadline.

半永久的に生まれ続けるじゃないですか

It will continue to be born indefinitely, won't it?

締め切りがなくて

Without a deadline.

でもいつかやっときたいことなんて

But it's something I want to do someday.

入らないわけですよもはや

There's no way it won't fit anymore.

締め切りがあるも終わった

The deadline has passed.

じゃあ疲れた

Well, I'm tired.

今日は休憩とか

Today is for breaks and such.

今年の頭に書いてた

I was writing at the beginning of this year.

これやりたいのところなんて

Where do you want to do this?

夢物語ぐらいのレベルでしか

"Only at the level of a dream story."

書いてないわけですよ

I haven't written it, you see.

これ例えばやりたい

I want to do this, for example.

これちょっと魅力的だなと思った時に

When I thought this was a little attractive.

いやでも締め切りがあること

Well, there is a deadline, though.

先にやってとかってやってたら

If you keep saying things like "do it first" and so on...

絶対手につかないで終わる

It will definitely end without being touched.

はははは

Hahaha.

ですねぇ

That's right.

そうで

That's right.

ほらポッドキャストなんかもまさにそうですけど

Well, podcasts are exactly like that, aren't they?

めっちゃみんなに聞かれる番組

A program that everyone asks about a lot.

作りたいって

I want to make it.

金とか手かけたりすれば

If you put in money or effort,

できるかもしれないですけど

It might be possible, but...

基本

Basic

なんか続けて

Continue with something.

いく過程で

In the process of going.

増えていくみたいな流れの方が

It seems like a trend that is increasing.

多分一般的だと思うんですよ

I think it's probably common.

であれば

If that is the case.

大ヒットするのが

It's going to be a big hit.

3年後を

Three years later.

2年後にすることはできるかもしれないけど

It might be possible to do it in two years.

言うても半年っていうのは

Even so, six months is...

意外と難しかったりするじゃないですか

It can actually be surprisingly difficult, you know?

まあまあテーマによってはできるんでしょうけど

Well, it might be possible depending on the theme.

はいはいはい

Yes, yes, yes.

だからそれを目標にするんだったら少なくても

So if that's your goal, at the very least...

2年は続けられる

I can continue for two years.

体制作んなきゃいけないっていう

"I have to create a system."

うん

Yeah.

その体制作りの方は

As for that system development...

意外とやれてないなっていうか

I didn't expect that I wouldn't be able to do it.

まあやれてないなとか

Well, I'm not really doing it.

結果やっちゃった部分多々ありますけど

There are many parts where the result didn't go as planned, but...

結構瞬発力で乗り切ってたりするから

I'm getting by with a surprising amount of quick reflexes.

ははははは

Hahahahaha

ちょっと瞬発力でって言われると

When I hear "just a bit of explosiveness,"

しんどいかもなって思って

I thought it might be tough.

ちょっとここで地固めっていうイメージですね

I have the image of solidifying things a bit here.

キドキド歌うチーム

Kidokido Singing Team

いいっすねいいっすね

That's good, that's good!

なんかこういう内なるニーズに

It's something like this inner need.

応えてくれる本

A book that responds to you.

見つかるとテンション上がりますね

It gets me excited when I find it.

うんうんうんうんうん

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

まいちさんが求めてた言葉だったんですね

It was the words that Maichi-san was seeking, wasn't it?

その2冊とも

Both of those two books.

そうなんですよ

That's right.

タイトル自体が

The title itself is

そうなんですよね

That's right.

いやーよーいやー久々に

Wow, it's been a while!

そんなやつ来たーっていう感じです

It feels like "that kind of person has arrived."

ははははは

Hahaha!

すごい興奮伝わってくれてる

The exciting feeling is being conveyed really well.

ありがとうございます

Thank you.

いやーこれ聞いてるあやなるさんも

Well, Ayana-san, who is listening to this...

こう生き延びるジム

A gym to survive like this.

ねー聞きながら買ってるかもしんないっすよ

Hey, I might be buying it while listening, you know?

amazonとかで

on Amazon and such

なんかこないだねエックスチラッと見たらね

The other day, I caught a glimpse of X.

やべー

Oh no!

やりたいことが多すぎるって言ってたから

Because you said there are too many things you want to do.

そうそうそうそう

That's right, that's right, that's right!

最近暴発してるんでねあやなるさん

Recently, I've been having outbursts, you know, Ayana-ru.

そろそろ彼女も

It's about time for her too.

ジムを考えなきゃいけないかもしれない

I might have to think about the gym.

生き延びてもらわないといけない

We need you to survive.

はははははは

Hahahahaha

それを

That.

楽しみに

Looking forward to it.

何の楽しみかわからないけど

I don't know what the enjoyment is, but...

はははははは

Hahahahaha

はいというわけでなんかいい本見つかったんで

Yes, so I found a good book.

よかったこれもお話できて

I'm glad I could talk about this too.

嬉しかったですよ

I was happy.

はいありがとうございます

Yes, thank you.

なのでちょっとお互いのなんか読みたい本が

So, I was thinking of some books we both want to read.

ちょっと見えたのは

What I caught a glimpse of was

うんうんうん

Uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh.

ちょっと収穫だったかもしれないですね

It might have been a bit of a harvest.

いやいやこちらこそありがとうございますいいきっかけです

No, no, thank you very much; this is a great opportunity.

作っていただいて

Thank you for making it.

はははははは

Hahahahaha

じゃあのりださんもいつか

Well then, Norida-san as well someday.

いとしの文具番外編で

In the beloved stationery side story.

はい

Yes

なんか今日

Something today.

文具の本についての感想が

Thoughts on the book about stationery.

いつか流れるんじゃないかと

I wonder if it will flow someday.

はははは

Hahahaha

そうかもしれないですね

That might be the case.

文具の本

Stationery book

ほらだって

See, that's it.

さっきこないだ見せてもらった

I saw it earlier.

雑誌とかでも全然いいですよ

It's perfectly fine even if it's in a magazine or something.

はいはいはい

Yes, yes, yes.

はい

Yes

そうですね文具のエッセイっていうのは確かにあるんで

Well, there are indeed essays about stationery.

あーはいはい

Ah, I see.

あるんですよそういう紹介でもいいかもしれないですね

It might be okay to have an introduction like that.

あーいいですね

Ah, that's nice.

ちょっとそれも楽しみにしてます

I'm looking forward to that a bit too.

はいで頑張って

Do your best with "yes."

ファイナルに乗っ取られないように

To avoid being taken over by the final.

はははは

Hahaha

それは大丈夫です

That's okay.

はははは

Hahaha.

よかった

I'm glad.

一番なんか強いコメントが来た

The strongest comment just came in.

最後の最後の

The very last.

その字固めはすごいね私の

That kanji 固め is amazing, isn't it?

素晴らしい

Wonderful

はい

Yes

でもまたねあのあやだらさんもまいとさんも

But again, that Ayadara-san and Maito-san too.

ぜひいとしの文具の遊びに来ていただいて

Please make sure to come and play with our beloved stationery.

はいぜひぜひ

Yes, definitely!

はいぜひぜひお待ちしております

Yes, we are looking forward to it.

はいありがとうございます

Yes, thank you.

というわけでピンチヒッター

So, it's a pinch hitter.

前回今回とのりださんに来ていただきました

Last time, Mr. Norida came to visit us again.

どうも2回ともありがとうございました

Thank you for both times.

ありがとうございました

Thank you very much.

はいありがとうございます

Yes, thank you.

ありがとうございました

Thank you very much.