「自分事」から始まった社会部女性記者の取材活動 東京新聞140周年記念「記者サロン」【前編】#125

新聞記者ラジオ

Newspaper reporter radio

東京新聞の記者が同僚記者に直撃する番組 新聞記者ラジオ

A program where a Tokyo newspaper reporter directly questions fellow reporters: Newspaper Reporter Radio.

今回は東京新聞140周年記者サロンの 公開収録の模様をお届けします

This time, we will deliver the highlights of the public recording of the Tokyo Shimbun's 140th anniversary press salon.

皆さんこんにちは 東京新聞社会部の奥野彩と

Hello everyone, this is Aya Okuno from the social department of the Tokyo Shimbun.

中村真明です 今日はよろしくお願いします

I am Makoto Nakamura. Nice to meet you today.

ありがとうございます

Thank you.

すごい緊張してるんで

I'm really nervous.

お手柔らかにお願いします

Please take it easy on me.

今日は東京新聞の記者が同僚記者に直撃する番組 新聞記者ラジオの特別編になります

Today, it will be a special edition of the program "Newspaper Reporter Radio," where a Tokyo Shimbun journalist directly interviews fellow journalists.

今日9月3日ですけれども 東京新聞の創刊140周年を記念した感謝月間のイベント

Today is September 3rd, and it marks the event for the gratitude month celebrating the 140th anniversary of the Tokyo Shimbun's founding.

記者サロンとして皆さんにお越しいただいて 公開収録という形で進めていきたいと思います

I would like to proceed in the form of a public recording with everyone here at the press salon.

ちなみに今日はお話しすることは主に5つぐらい

By the way, there are mainly about five things to discuss today.

私たちそれぞれ生活困窮のテーマとか 私LGBTとか子ども関係の取材してますけれども

We each cover themes related to living in poverty, and I report on LGBT issues and matters concerning children.

その取材を始めたきっかけとか あとは印象深い取材とか

What prompted you to start that interview, and what are some memorable interviews you've had?

あと私たちたまたま今社会部というところにいまして 社会部のいわゆる女性記者なんですけれど

Also, we happen to be in the social affairs department right now, and I’m one of the so-called female reporters in the social affairs department.

この女性記者としての本音みたいなものも お話できたらと思っています

I hope to be able to talk about my true feelings as a female journalist.

後半は休憩を挟んで皆さんとフリートークという形で

In the second half, we will have a break and then engage in free talk with everyone.

お話しすることがあったら ぜひ質問いただければと思います

If you have anything to talk about, please feel free to ask questions.

ちなみにこの中で新聞記者ラジオを聞いたことがあるという方 もしいらしたら手を挙げていただけると

By the way, if there are any newspaper reporters here who have listened to the radio, please raise your hand.

ありがとうございます

Thank you.

ぜひですね もし聞いたことがないという方は 今日のところに一応チラシをご用意させていただきました

Certainly! If there are those who have not heard of it, we have prepared some flyers for today.

これなんですけど ここはQRコードからも聞けますので ぜひ聞いていただけると

This is it, and you can also listen from the QR code here, so please give it a listen.

今20本ぐらいありますので 好きなテーマとか気になるテーマとか

I have about 20 of them now, so feel free to choose any themes you like or are curious about.

1回多分15分とか20分ぐらいとかなので 歩きながら聞いたりとか

It's probably around 15 to 20 minutes each time, so I listen while walking.

パソコン スマホ 何でも聞けますので ぜひ聞いていただけると嬉しいです

You can ask me anything about computers or smartphones, so I would be glad if you could ask!

では今日 早速いきますかね

Well then, shall we get started right away today?

今日は新聞記者ラジオに関わる私たちの思いとか

Today, our thoughts about being involved in the newspaper and radio.

取材の裏側について触れていきたいと思っています

I would like to touch upon the behind-the-scenes of the interview.

早速ですが 私たちの自己紹介からいこうと思います

Let's get started with our self-introduction.

まず私の隣 生活困窮者の問題を取材している中村真明記者です

First, next to me is reporter Maki Nakamura, who is covering the issues of people in financial distress.

自己紹介お願いします

Please introduce yourself.

ありがとうございます

Thank you.

私は中村真明と申しまして 皆さん初めましてよろしくお願いします

My name is Makoto Nakamura. Nice to meet you all.

奥野記者より2年若いのかなという人がいます

There is a person who seems to be two years younger than reporter Okuno.

年違いですよ

It's a difference in years.

最初も若いです

Initially, I was young too.

2009年に入社して 振り出しが富山県の高岡市局というところで振り出しで

I joined the company in 2009, starting at the Takaoka City Bureau in Toyama Prefecture.

その後 富山市局 それから金沢にある北陸本社の経済部を得て

After that, I obtained the Economic Department at the Hokuriku headquarters in Kanazawa, followed by the Toyama City Bureau.

2017年から東京本社の社会部にまいりました

I joined the social department at the Tokyo headquarters in 2017.

北陸の経歴が長いんですけれども 出身も石川県なので地元をよく知っている場所で取材をしていますので

I have a long career in the Hokuriku region, and since I'm also from Ishikawa Prefecture, I'm conducting interviews in a place I know well.

続けてきて 東京にやってきてということになっています

"It has been decided that you will continue on and come to Tokyo."

基本的には東京23区の自治体を取材してきまして

Basically, I have been covering the municipalities of Tokyo's 23 wards.

これまで荒川区とか 文京区とか 本当に新宿区や渋谷区や

Until now, places like Arakawa Ward and Bunkyo Ward, really Shinjuku Ward and Shibuya Ward...

いろいろな地域を担当になって 議会とかそれから自治体の行政取材なんかを続けてきた方々

People who have been responsible for various regions and have continued to cover things like the legislature and local government administration.

町谷を取材したり 生活困窮者の取材というのもそういった

Interviewing Machitani and covering stories about people in financial distress are also part of that.

日々の取材の中で自分が気になったことを取材していって

In my daily interviews, I am researching the things that catch my interest.

もっと知りたいとか もっと話を聞いてみたいということで

I want to know more or I want to hear more about it.

だんだん取材が長くなっていってという形で 続けてきた経緯があります

The interviews have gradually become longer, and there is a history of continuing in that manner.

ちょっとパワーポイントお願いします

Could you please help me with PowerPoint a little?

さっきちょっとお話ししたような こんな流れで今日は行こうと思ってるんですが

As I mentioned a little earlier, I’m thinking we can proceed like this today.

これ中村記者の経緯ですね

This is the background of Reporter Nakamura.

中村さんはこの生活困窮者の取材で 貧困ジャーナリズム賞に選ばれたりとか

Mr. Nakamura was selected for the poverty journalism award for his coverage of people living in poverty.

その取材をきっかけに福祉の相談援助みたいなことをする

That interview sparked my interest in doing something like welfare consultation and support.

社会福祉士の国家資格も取得しています

I have also obtained the national certification for a social worker.

そのあたりの話も後ほどじっくりと思うんですが

I will think about that topic in detail later.

まず私の

First, my…

じゃあ次は自己紹介

Well then, next is self-introduction.

私は改めまして奥野彩と申します

My name is Ayako Okuno.

私の方は愛知県の千田半島というところにある 半田支局というところが振り出しです

I am starting from a place called Handa Branch located on Chita Peninsula in Aichi Prefecture.

もしかしてあれですかね

Could it be that?

愛知県とか半田知ってるよっていう方いらっしゃるんですかね

Is there anyone who knows about Aichi Prefecture or Handa?

ありがとうございます

Thank you.

そこが振り出しで

That's the starting point.

その後中村記者と一緒なんですけども

After that, I'm with reporter Nakamura.

北陸本社 金沢市にあるんですが

The headquarters is located in Kanazawa City, Hokuriku.

北陸本社の報道部に私は働きまして

I work in the reporting department at the Hokuriku headquarters.

当時一緒にかぶっていて仕事もしています

At that time, we were wearing it together and also working.

私が東京に来たのは2013年で東京新聞の社会部に来ました

I came to Tokyo in 2013 and joined the social department of the Tokyo Shimbun.

下町支局などを担当して

In charge of the downtown branch, etc.

その後読者部というのが

Then there is the Reader's Club.

東京新聞あるんですけれど

I have the Tokyo Shimbun, though.

読者の皆さんの声をもとに取材する

Conduct interviews based on the voices of the readers.

ニュースあなた発というのを今もやってますが

"We are still doing 'News You'."

これを各部署に3年いて

I will be in each department for 3 years.

社会部には2020年からまた戻ってきました

I returned to the social department again in 2020.

私は保育とか子どもを取り巻く問題

I am concerned about childcare and issues surrounding children.

それからLGBTQジェンダーみたいな問題を

Then issues like LGBTQ and gender.

ずっと継続取材していて

I've been conducting ongoing interviews.

この8月から都庁の担当になりまして

I became in charge of the Tokyo Metropolitan Government starting this August.

今小池さんの担当をしております

I am currently in charge of Koike-san.

小池知事の

Governor Koike's

それからですね

And then, you see...

ちょっとこれも宣伝みたいなんですけど

This feels a bit like advertising, but...

東京すくすくという子育てサイトがありまして

There is a parenting website called "Tokyo Sukusuku."

ご存知の方いらっしゃいますか

Is there anyone who knows?

ありがとうございます

Thank you.

これちょっと宣伝ですけど

This is a little bit of promotion, but...

6月に今度6周年になるんですね

It's going to be the 6th anniversary in June, isn't it?

これのイベントもありますので

There is also an event for this.

チラシ入ってますのでもし

There's a flyer included, so if...

こちらもよろしければぜひお願いします

If it's okay with you, please do.

この東京すくすくという子育てサイトが

This child-rearing site called "Tokyo Sukusuku" is

できた時の立ち上げもやってまして

I've also been involved in the launch when it was established.

今も東京すくすくのすくすく部と

Now, in Tokyo, the Sukusuku Club is thriving.

今なったんですが

I just became aware of it now.

それの兼務もしています

I also have concurrent duties for that.

そんな私たちがとか

"Such us..."

今ちょっと後ろで今

I'm just a little behind right now.

写メを撮ってる

Taking a photo.

彼人事部の小川君といいますが

My name is Mr. Ogawa from the Human Resources Department.

あとここに今録音してます

I'm currently recording here.

システムのトンショさんと

Mr. Tonsho from the system.

あともうちょっとメンバーいるんですけども

There are a few more members, but...

有志のメンバーで2020年7月にですね

In July 2020, with a group of volunteers,

この新聞記者ラジオというのが

This newspaper reporter radio...

始めました

I have started.

実は朝日新聞ポッドキャストって

Actually, the Asahi Shimbun podcast...

知ってる方いますか

Is there anyone who knows?

朝日新聞ポッドキャストすごい聞かれている

The Asahi Shimbun podcast is really popular.

新聞社のポッドキャストなんですけども

It's a podcast from a newspaper.

そちらより実は早いんですよね

Actually, it's faster than over there.

実は一番始めたっていう

Actually, it's the very first time I've started.

ただちょっとなかなか大手さんよりは

It's just a bit difficult compared to larger companies.

ちょっとなかなかこじんまりやってるんですけど

It's a bit on the small side, but we're managing fine.

そんな経緯があります

There is such a background to it.

そうですね新聞記者ラジオはでも

Well, yes, but a newspaper reporter and radio...

新聞をなかなか読んでくれてない層が増えてきて

There is a growing group of people who aren't reading the newspaper as much.

なかなかその新聞も売れなくなっている時に

The newspaper has been selling poorly during that time.

私たちのニュースをどう伝えたいのか

How do you want to convey our news?

どう伝えていくべきかっていうのを

How should I convey this?

若手のメンバーで社員で議論して

Discuss with the young members and employees.

新聞記者ラジオを始める1年ぐらい前から

About a year before starting as a newspaper reporter.

実はいろいろ試行錯誤をして

Actually, I've been trying various things through trial and error.

youtubeで配信してみたりとか

Trying to do a live stream on YouTube or something like that.

音声がいいのか動画がいいのかと検証したりとか

Whether audio is better or video is better, and verifying that.

そういったことを得て2020年7月に始めたと

I started in July 2020 after gaining such experiences.

いう経緯がありましたよね

There was a background to that, wasn't there?

今だいたい月に2回ぐらい

About twice a month now.

火曜日に配信しているので

Because it is being streamed on Tuesday.

よかったらぜひ無料なんでお聞きください

If you'd like, please feel free to ask for it for free.

そのポッドキャストでは

In that podcast

私たちの同僚記者とかの取材とか

Interviews with our fellow reporters and others.

記事の裏側っていうのを

The behind-the-scenes of the article.

私たちが聞いていくようなスタイルが多かったんですけども

There were many styles that we would listen to.

実は中村記者が生活困窮者の取材に

In fact, reporter Nakamura is covering the situation of people living in poverty.

力を入れ始めたきっかけっていうのは

The reason I started putting in effort is...

あまりポッドキャストでは話してこなかったんですよね

I haven't really talked about it on the podcast.

そのあたりを今日聞いていきたいと思います

I would like to ask about that today.

じゃあ率直になぜ取り組むことになったのでしょうか

So, to be direct, why did you decide to get involved?

モニターにも今

It's now on the monitor.

きっかけになったような記事を

An article that seems to have been the trigger.

置いていただいたんですけれども

You left it here, but...

私2017年7月から

Since July 2017.

社会部に入って

Joining the social department.

最初に荒川区を担当したんですね

You were in charge of Arakawa Ward first, right?

荒川区は山谷地域っていう

The Arakawa Ward is called the Yamanote area.

日雇い労働者の街と呼ばれる地域も

A region referred to as a city of day laborers.

かかっていて

It's hanging.

山谷地域というのは

The Yamanotani area refers to

日本の三大寄せ場と言われる一つでもあって

It is one of Japan's three major gathering spots.

日雇い労働者が多く集まっていて

Many day laborers have gathered.

簡易宿泊所が密集していて

There is a dense concentration of simple lodgings.

高度経済成長期には多くの日雇い労働者が

During the period of high economic growth, many day laborers...

住んでいたっていう街だったんですけれども

It was a city where I used to live.

もうその時

It's already that time.

私が取材を始めた頃には

When I started my interviews,

日雇いの市場も縮小していて

The daily labor market is also shrinking.

男性たちも

The men too.

そういったところで働いていた男性たちも

The men who worked in such places also...

高齢化して

Aging

生活保護を受けている人が

People who are receiving public assistance.

簡易宿泊所に住んでいる方の9割を占める

It accounts for 90% of those living in simple accommodations.

そういう地域だったんですね

It was that kind of area, huh?

貧困問題の実像の一部が見える

A part of the true nature of the poverty issue can be seen.

表面化しやすい地域というふうには

It can be said that it is an area that tends to become apparent.

言えるのかなと思うんですけれども

I wonder if I can say that.

そういった時に

At times like that

取材をしたのが

The interview was conducted.

最初に取材をしたのがこのシスターだったんですけれども

The first person I interviewed was this sister.

彼女は山谷の地域で

She is in the Yuyama area.

長くずっと

For a long time.

居場所を運営したりとか

Managing a place to belong or something like that.

それから炊き出しを実践したりとかしていて

After that, we practiced things like providing emergency meals.

彼女がこれまで関わってきた方々で

The people she has been involved with so far.

亡くなった方々を名簿にして残していく

We will keep a list of those who have passed away.

っていうようなことを

Something like that.

彼女なりにやられていて

She is doing it in her own way.

それを記事にしたっていうのが

That's what I said in the article.

一つ大きなきっかけだったんですね

It was a significant turning point, wasn't it?

具体的には

Specifically,

病院で

At the hospital

仲間が倒れて

A comrade has fallen.

病院に駆けつけて

Rushing to the hospital.

その仲間が口から血を流したまま

That companion was bleeding from the mouth.

拭われることもなく

Without being wiped.

亡くなっている様子を見て

Seeing the state of someone who has passed away.

同じ命を持って生まれてきたはずなのに

Although we were supposed to be born with the same life...

どうして対応が違うのかっていう思いから

It comes from the feeling of why the response is different.

一人一人の尊厳を記録したいということで

"I want to record the dignity of each individual."

名簿に残していったっていう話を聞いて

I heard that they left it on the roster.

すごくそういう人に

To such a person, it's really amazing.

惹かれたというか

It's more like I was drawn to it.

こういう現場で取材をしたり

Conducting interviews in such situations.

話を聞いてみたい

I want to hear the story.

もっと話を聞いていきたいっていう思いが

I have a desire to hear more about the story.

すごく強くなって

Become very strong.

彼女がやっている

She is doing it.

星の家という作業所で

At the workshop called "House of Stars."

ボランティアをするようになるんですね

You will start doing volunteer work, right?

実際に

Actually

おにぎりを

rice ball

雇いのおじさんたちで

With hired uncles.

親しみを込めておじさんと呼ぶんですけれども

I call him "uncle" with affection.

男性たちに配ったりとか

Distributing to the men, or something like that.

野宿している方とかの様子を聞いて回ったりとか

I went around asking about the situation of those who are camping out.

っていう活動を

activities like that

個人的な気持ちで

From a personal perspective.

始めて

Start.

そしたらどんどん知り合いが増えていって

Then, more and more acquaintances started to increase.

山や地域で

In the mountains and regions.

自分の家に

At home.

ずっと生きてきた男性たちもそうだし

Men who have lived for a long time are the same.

それから

Then.

この場所で例えば映画館を始めた

For example, I started a movie theater in this place.

写真家の女性とか

Like a female photographer.

鉱山

Mine

日本の鉱山とか各地を

In Japanese mines and various places.

点々と労働しながら

Working bit by bit.

日本経済を支えてきたような

It seems to have supported the Japanese economy.

労働者のおじさんたちと

With the workers' uncles.

話を聞いたりしていく中で

While listening to the stories and so on

すごく自分自身も

Really, myself too.

なんていうか

How should I put it?

癒されていくような感覚もあったんですけれども

I also had a sense of being healed.

取材活動を続けていった

Continued the interview activities.

ということが本当に最初の

This is really the very beginning.

貧困問題との

With the issue of poverty

出会いというか

It's more like a meeting.

のめり込むようになった

I became immersed in it.

きっかけの

The trigger of

時期でした

It was the right time.

2017年の頃ですね

It's around 2017, isn't it?

次のスライドも

The next slide too.

あるんですけど

I have it.

山やで結構取材をして

I've done quite a bit of research in the mountains.

いろんな人と出会っていって

Meeting various people.

この記事は

This article is

日本ルポっていう

It's called "Japan Report."

当時有館でやっていた

It was being done at Arikata at that time.

各地域の

Each region's

出来事を

Event

長いルポの

A long report.

本当に最初の

Really the first.

一場面なんですけれども

It's just one scene, but...

それを山やでやった時に

When I did that in the mountains

毎日山やに通って

I go to the mountains every day.

おじさんたちと一緒に炊き出しのご飯を

Cooking rice with the uncles.

作ったりとか

Like making things.

本当にその場所に子ども

Is there really a child in that place?

自分も子どもがいるので子どもを連れて行って

Since I also have children, I will take my child with me.

様子を見ている

I am watching the situation.

おじさんおばさんたちが

Uncles and aunts

自分は貧しいはずなのに

I should be poor, yet...

お菓子をたくさん持ってきてくれたりとか

They brought a lot of snacks.

そういった中で

In such a context

本当に

Really.

関わりの中でこの場所自体に

In the context of involvement, this place itself...

私はすごく惹かれていって

I am becoming very attracted.

取材を続けてきたみたいなところが

It seems like they've been continuing the interviews.

あります

There is.

2017年で

In the year 2017.

取材してそのまま

Just as it is after the interview.

ボランティアみたいな感じなんですか

Is it like being a volunteer?

ボランティアも始めた

I also started volunteering.

記者ってもちろん取材して

Reporters conduct interviews, of course.

書くじゃないですか

Isn't it that you write?

基本的にはそこで一回

Basically, once there.

終わるというか

It's more like it comes to an end.

関係は続いててもなかなか

Even if the relationship continues, it's still quite difficult.

ボランティアって毎回

Volunteering every time.

いろんなところでボランティアするわけじゃないので

I'm not volunteering in various places.

そうですね

That's right.

すぐ行ったんですか

Did you go right away?

結構すぐ

Pretty soon.

でもゆっくり

But slowly.

毎回行くぐらいやる気がある感じじゃなくて

It doesn't feel like there's enough motivation to go every time.

たまに

Sometimes

時間があれば顔を出す程度から

If I have time, I will come by just a little.

始まって

Start.

っていう形でした

It was in that form.

ずっと

Forever

続けてきて

Keep going.

これが2019年

This is 2019.

そうですね

That's right.

中村さんはこの後

Mr. Nakamura will do this later.

東京教助っていう随時の

It's called Tokyo Kyōjo, which is a type of assistance available at any time.

連載記事今もやってますけども

I'm still writing the serialized articles.

そういう

That's it.

企画も始まっていくんですが

The planning will also begin.

東京教助とか

Tokyo Assistance, etc.

新宿教助もやってましたよね

You were also doing Shinjuku Kyōsuke, right?

知ってる方

Someone who knows.

読んだことあるよって方いますか

Is there anyone who has read this?

ありがとうございます

Thank you.

これもインターネットの

This is also the internet's.

東京新聞webの方で

On the Tokyo Shimbun web.

読めるので過去の記事も

I can read it, so I also read past articles.

ぜひ読みいただけると

I hope you will take the time to read it.

ありがたいですが

I appreciate it, but...

この企画が始まった経緯っていうのは

The background of how this project started is...

どんな感じなんでしょうか

I wonder what it feels like.

2019年の夏に

In the summer of 2019.

今度は新宿区の担当になって

This time, I am in charge of Shinjuku Ward.

三谷という地域は

The region called Mitani is

見てきたけれども

I have seen it.

今度は都心の方の貧困問題を

This time, it's about the poverty issue in the city center.

知りたいなと思って

I want to know.

今度はすごく老舗の

This time it's a very long-established one.

支援団体の

Support organization's

認定NPO法人

Certified Non-Profit Organization

自立生活サポートセンターもやいさんが

The Self-Support Living Center, Moyai, is

関係している団体と

With the organizations involved.

ボランティアをまた始めるようになったんですね

You've started volunteering again, haven't you?

またボランティアなんですけど

I'm volunteering again.

本当に当時も

Really, back then too.

取材というよりも

Rather than an interview

もっと

More

取材の手前みたいな感じですね

It feels like we're just on the verge of an interview.

何が問題があったりするのか

What problems are there?

実態はどうなっているのか

What is the actual situation?

ということを知りたいという気持ちで

With the feeling of wanting to know that.

または

Or

何か自分も役に立ちたい

I want to be of help in some way too.

みたいな気持ちだと思うんですけれども

I think it's a feeling like that.

ボランティア活動を始めて

Starting volunteer activities

それが2019年の夏で

That was the summer of 2019.

2020年になって

In 2020.

新型コロナの感染が

The infection of the new coronavirus has

拡大して

Expand.

緊急事態宣言が発令されて

A state of emergency has been declared.

という風になっていくと

As it turns out,

どんどん利用者が

More and more users are

増えていくというのを

To increase.

身の前で体験するんですね

You experience it right in front of you.

最初は本当に

At first, it was really...

60人とか

Around 60 people.

80人とかしかいなかった

There were only about 80 people.

中高年の男性しかいなかった

There were only middle-aged men.

ところが

However,

どんどん人が増えていって

People are increasingly growing in number.

100人を超えて

More than 100 people.

200人を超えてと

Over 200 people.

増えていくんですけれども

It is increasing, however.

さらに来る人も

Furthermore, those who come.

若い女性は

Young women are

ちょっと年齢層も

The age group is a bit...

下がってきて

Come down.

女性も中にいたりして

There were also women inside.

すごく多様になっていく

It's becoming incredibly diverse.

様子を見るんですね

You're going to observe the situation, huh?

それまではすごく

Until then, it was really.

のどかな雰囲気だったのが

It had a peaceful atmosphere.

ちょっと切羽詰まってくるのが

It's starting to get a bit urgent.

肌で感じるような

As if felt on the skin.

状況になっていくんです

It will become a situation.

例えば電話番号を

For example, a phone number.

教えていた人から

From the person who was teaching me.

電話がかかってきて公衆電話が

A phone call came in and a public phone...

だったりするんですけれども

It can be something like that, though.

これはひどいよ

This is terrible.

首くぐっちゃうよとか

"I'm going to get my head stuck."

と言われたりする

It is said that.

というようなことが増えていって

This kind of thing is increasing.

本当に最初はボランティアをしていて

At first, I was really just volunteering.

ご飯を渡したりとか

Like giving rice.

袋に詰めたりすることをしていたんですけれども

I was doing things like packing them into bags.

これはちゃんと本業をしないといけない

I have to properly focus on my main job.

ということです

That is what it means.

一人一人の話を聞いていく

Listening to each person's story.

というようなことを

Such things as these

やっていくようになりました

I have started to continue doing it.

この新宿教長が始まったのは

This Shinjuku pastor started with

2021年くらい

Around 2021.

だったと思うんですけれども

I think it was like that, but...

本当に当時は

At that time, it really was...

キスになるかどうかも分からないまま

Not knowing whether it will become a kiss or not.

話を聞いていく

Listening to the story.

みたいなことを

Things like that

始めていたんですね

You had started it, didn't you?

そうしていく中で

In the process of doing so

状況がどんどん悪化していくのも

The situation is continuing to worsen.

ありますし

There is.

すごく

Very.

来られている方がすごく多様だな

There are a lot of very diverse people here.

というのを実感していくんですね

You come to realize that.

貧困とか

Poverty and such.

当時それから

At that time, after that.

コロナ禍で住まいも

Housing during the COVID-19 pandemic.

失い仕事も失う人が

People who lose their jobs also lose themselves.

増加していくっていう話を

It's a story about increasing.

ニュースなんかでも

Even in the news.

すごく流れていたと思うんですけれども

I think it was flowing very well.

話を聞いていくと

As I listened to the story...

コロナで

Due to COVID-19

っていうより

Rather than that

もっと前から課題があったりして

There have been issues for some time now.

苦しい状態で

In a painful state.

なんとか生きながらえていたの

I was somehow managing to survive.

だけれども

However

コロナというきっかけを

The opportunity presented by Corona

受けて

"Receive"

立ち直れなくなっているとか

It seems you are unable to recover.

全然

Not at all.

コロナだけが

Only Corona.

理由ではない

It's not a reason.

様々に抱えている困難さとか

The various difficulties I am facing.

生きづらさっていうものがあって

There is something called difficulty in living.

そこに焦点を当てていかないと

If we don't focus on that…

コロナでコロナでって言ってても

Even if we keep saying it's because of the corona.

ダメなんじゃないっていう風な

It's not that it's a no-go.

問題意識が

Awareness of the problem

芽生えてくるようになりまして

It has started to sprout.

一人一人

One by one.

しかも面白かったりする

Moreover, it's actually interesting.

話が

It's a story.

苦しいだけじゃなくて

It's not just painful.

こういう風に楽しさを見つけている

I am finding enjoyment in this way.

ここに生きがいがあるとか

There is a reason to live here.

むしろここに

Rather here.

炊き出しの場に来ること

Coming to the soup kitchen.

食品の配布会ですけど

It's a food distribution event.

配布会の場に来ること自体がすごく

Just coming to the distribution event itself is amazing.

自分にとっては癒やしになっているとか

It has become a healing experience for me.

面白い話もたくさん聞いていく中で

As I listen to many interesting stories,

この人たちを

These people.

伝えたいなっていう風に

I want to convey that.

思っていて

I have been thinking.

で

Then

新宿で集まる

Gathering in Shinjuku.

この場で

At this place.

見える人の

A person who can see.

あり方姿を伝えたいということで

I want to convey the way of being and appearance.

この新宿教助っていう

This Shinjuku教助 (Kyōsuke).

連載を

Serial publication

始めるようになりました

I have started to begin.

その

That

今は東京教助っていう名前で

Now it’s called Tokyo Kyoujo.

ちょっとエリアが広がって

The area has expanded a little.

私だけじゃなくて

Not just me.

別の方も関わってくれたり

Other people are also getting involved.

とかしているんですけれども

I am trying to dissolve it, though.

なんていうか

How can I say this?

そうですね

That's right.

当時すごく新宿って

At that time, Shinjuku was really...

人が集まってくる場所で

A place where people gather.

新宿だけの問題じゃなくて

It's not just a problem in Shinjuku.

全国から人が来るんですね

People come from all over the country, right?

一方からバスに乗って

Getting on the bus from one side.

支援を求めてやってくる人とか

People who come seeking support.

仕事を求めてやってくる人も来るし

Some people come seeking work.

ここに漂着するしかなかった

I had no choice but to drift here.

人たちの姿

The appearance of people.

立ち止まれず家族も

Cannot stop, not even the family.

家も仕事もつながりを

Connections between home and work.

失ったけれど

Though I have lost it.

そういう状況の中に

In such a situation.

たどり着いてしまった人たちの

Those who have reached their destination.

姿を一人一人

Each person's figure.

紹介したいなということで

I want to introduce you.

始まった連載です

This is the start of a serialized publication.

すみませんうまくしゃべれます

I'm sorry, I can't speak well.

渋谷記者ラジオの中でも

Even in the Shibuya reporter radio.

何回か定期的に

Several times regularly.

中村さんが通ってる時の様子

The situation when Nakamura-san is attending.

実は取り上げてますよね

Actually, you are covering it, right?

前はそれこそ

It used to be exactly that.

数百人

Several hundred people

300人くらいだった時

When there were about 300 people.

それも多かったって言ってたけど

I heard that was also a lot.

どんどん800人くらいの時も

Even when there were about 800 people, it kept increasing.

ありましたよね

It was there, wasn't it?

次のスライド

Next slide.

開けていただきたいんですけど

I would like you to open it, please.

これは去年の夏の段階で

This is at the stage of last summer.

すみません

Excuse me.

現状のものでないんですけれども

It's not the current one, but...

この時点で575で

At this point, with 575.

8月12日になってますけど

It's already August 12th, isn't it?

つい最近も800人っていう

Just recently, it was reported to be 800 people.

人数を数えたりしているので

Because we are counting the number of people.

来られてる方はすごく増えていますね

The number of people coming here has really increased, hasn't it?

最初本当に

At first, really.

80人とか60人だった頃が

When it was around 80 people or 60 people.

信じられないくらいに

Unbelievably.

今はものすごくたくさんの人たちが

Right now, a tremendous number of people are...

来ない中から

From among those who are not coming.

やってきて

Come over.

来られる方の

For those who can come.

雰囲気もすごく

The atmosphere is really amazing.

一般化しているというか

It's more like it's becoming generalized.

様々です

It varies.

家族

Family

子育て中の方もいるし

There are some who are raising children.

お母さんと子供が

A mother and child.

一緒に来ていたりとか

Like coming together or something.

抱っこしているお母さんがいたりとか

There are mothers who are holding their children.

一見見たところ

At first glance.

普通の人じゃないって

You're not an ordinary person.

誰でも言うような

As anyone would say.

みんなに気をつけているような

It seems like everyone is being careful.

人が

A person

来られていたりとか

Whether you have been coming or not.

すごく

amazing

苦しいっていう

It means "It's painful" or "It's苦しい."

状況が

The situation is

物価高もあって

Due to the high cost of living.

広がっている

Spreading out.

のは感じます

I feel that way.

ただ報道が増えて

"Just an increase in reports."

来やすくなったっていう

It has become easier to come.

面はあると思うので

I think there is a possibility.

それはすごくいいことだと思っていて

I think that's a really good thing.

必要な人がこういうふうに

People who need it this way

支援に頼る状況っていうのは

The situation of relying on support is...

いいことだなと思うんですけれども

I think it's a good thing, but...

一方でやっぱりこれは

On the other hand, this is still...

民間団体がやっているっていうところで

It's about being done by a private organization.

足りてない部分が実はあるっていうことの

The fact that there are actually areas that are lacking.

裏返しでもあるっていうふうに思っています

I think it's also a reversal.

まさに都庁の下で

Right under the Tokyo Metropolitan Government Office.

私今月から都庁担当ですけど

I’m in charge of the Tokyo Metropolitan Government starting this month.

そうですね

That's right.

規制線を引いたりとかしたこともありましたよね

There were times when we even drew regulation lines, right?

そうですね

That's right.

こういう人が増えてきて

People like this are increasing.

人が最初は

At first, people are

都庁の下ではなかったんですね

It wasn't under the metropolitan government office, was it?

都庁の前に地列行列ができる

A queue forms in front of the metropolitan government building.

ような人数だったんですけれども

It was about that number of people, you see.

それが収まりきらなくなって

It has become too much to contain.

都庁の

Metropolitan Government Office

玄関前というか

I mean, in front of the entrance.

スペースまで人が増えるようになって

The number of people has started to increase up to space.

いった時に

When I went there

東京都側がコーン

Tokyo side has a cone.

みたいなのを置いてたんですよね

I had something like that placed there, you know.

工事現場に置くみたいな三角形のコーンを

A triangular cone like the ones placed at construction sites.

ポールを置いて入れなくした

I placed a pole to block the entrance.

みたいな事件が

An incident like that.

時があって

When the time comes.

最初だから

It's because it's the first time.

排除というふうに受け止められますよね

It can be perceived as exclusion, can't it?

来られた方は

Those who have come.

支援を求めて

Seeking support.

民間団体に支援を求めてきたんですけれども

I have been seeking support from private organizations.

都庁ではないにしても

Even if it's not the Tokyo Metropolitan Government,

私たちはここで受け入れられてない

We are not accepted here.

ここに行ってはいけないって

You must not go here.

もしかしたら思う人もいるかもしれないし

Some people might think that as well.

そういうメッセージ性を発していたと思うし

I think it was conveying such a message.

私もすごく問題だなと思って取材しました

I thought it was a really big issue, so I conducted an interview.

これだけ中村さん

Just this, Nakamura-san.

声をなかなか出せない人とか

People who have difficulty speaking up.

出しづらい人とか

Someone who is difficult to bring out.

声を届けられない人の

For those whose voices cannot be heard.

取材をずっとしてきているわけなんですけど

I've been conducting interviews for a long time.

やっぱりすごく

As expected, it's amazing.

そういう話したくなかったり

I didn't want to talk about that.

話せなかったりする人の

People who may not be able to speak.

声を聞くって本当に難しいし

Listening to voices is really difficult.

時間がかかる

It takes time.

私も同僚の記者として

As a fellow journalist

自分の経験からも難しいなと思うんですけど

I think it's difficult based on my own experience as well.

中でも印象深い取材とか

Among them, which interviews were particularly memorable?

記事ってありますか

Do you have an article?

そうですね今回ちょっと

Well, this time a bit...

スライドにしてもらったんですけれども

I had them turn it into a slide.

これかな

Is this it?

そうですね

That's right.

特に印象深いのが

What stands out particularly is

男性の取材で

In an interview with a man.

一人一人に話を聞いていくって

"Listening to each person individually."

取材してたんですけれども

I was conducting an interview.

当時祝福品配布の回で

At the time of the distribution of celebratory gifts.

話しかけて

Talk to me.

すごく体調が悪そうだったんですね

You looked really unwell.

足を引きずって歩いていて

Walking while dragging my feet.

お医者さんもボランティアで来ているので

The doctor is also coming as a volunteer.

お医者さんにかかった方がいいですよって

You should see a doctor.

伝えて

Tell me.

見てくれたお医者さんも

The doctor who looked at me too

すぐ病院行ってください

Please go to the hospital right away.

っていうような状況で

In a situation like that.

すごく心配になってしまって

I'm really worried.

ご自宅聞いていたので

I was listening to your home.

お家にまで行きますよって

I'll go to your house.

事前に言ってはあったんですけれども

I had mentioned it in advance, but...

お家にまで行ってみたんですね

So you went all the way to their house, huh?

そしたら

Then.

杉並区にお住まいだったんですけれども

I used to live in Suginami Ward.

ガスも水道も電気も止まった家で

In a house where the gas, water, and electricity have all been shut off.

暮らしていて

While living

お水は公園で

Water is in the park.

ネットボトルに入れて

Put it in a net bottle.

お風呂に溜めて

Fill the bath.

暮らしていて

While living

最初蛇口をひねるんです

First, you turn the faucet.

当時私が

At that time, I...

コロナの時で手を洗わなきゃと思ったので

I thought I had to wash my hands during the corona times.

手洗いますねって言って

I will wash my hands, okay?

何気なく

Casually

蛇口をひねったら

When I turned on the faucet

水が出なかったんですね

The water didn't come out, did it?

えっ出ないと思って

What? I thought it wouldn't come out.

えっ

Huh?

その一瞬でちょっと悟るんですね

In that moment, you kind of realize.

あっ出ない水道止まってるのかなみたいな

Oh, the water isn't coming out. I wonder if the water supply is stopped.

よく考えたら電気止まってるから

Now that I think about it, the electricity is off.

どうすると思って

What do you think you're going to do?

そしたら

Then.

70代の男性ですけれども

He is a man in his 70s.

ペットボトルの水を

bottle of water

私に渡してくれて

Thank you for passing it to me.

これで洗ってくださいって言ってくれるんですけど

They tell me to wash it with this.

そういった中で

In such a situation

生活しているっていうことを

The fact that you are living.

なんていうか

How should I put it?

男性のご自宅で

At the man's home.

体感して

Experience it.

すごく緊急性が高いと思ったんです

I thought it was very urgent.

体調も悪いし

I'm not feeling well.

食べ物も食品配布でもらったものか

Is the food something you received from the food distribution?

パンの耳で暮らして

Living on bread crusts.

しているっていうような方だったし

It was someone who seemed to be doing it.

生活保護が

Welfare benefits.

必要な状況の人だと

It's someone in a necessary situation.

すごい思って

I think it's amazing.

生活保護受けないんですかってお話したんですが

I asked if you are not receiving welfare.

どうしても受けない

I absolutely won't accept it.

って最初誇示されるんですね

So it's being shown off from the beginning, huh?

すごくその

That's really something.

最初なかなか

At first, it was quite difficult.

言い出せない何かがあるっていうのが

There is something that I can't bring myself to say.

わかったんですけれども

I understand, but...

何かわからないまま平行線で話をしながらも

While talking in parallel lines without understanding anything.

やっと話してくれたのが

I'm glad you finally talked to me.

貸付を返していないお金があると

There is money that has not been repaid for the loan.

社会福祉協議会に

To the Social Welfare Council

昔借りて

Once borrowed

それを返せていないって

I haven't been able to return that.

いうことを打ち上げてくれたんですね

You brought up what you wanted to say, didn't you?

それはその

That's that.

生活福祉資金のことだと

It's about the livelihood welfare fund.

思うんですけれども

I think that...

生活困窮者の

People in need.

伴走支援のため

For support in accompanying running.

というか

I mean, or rather.

お金は貸すけれども

I'll lend you money, but...

その方が自立につながるように

So that it leads to independence.

伴走支援をしながら

While providing support alongside.

次に

Next

未来につなげていくっていうような

Connecting it to the future.

趣旨で作られた貸付金で

Loan created for the purpose.

決してその

Never that

貸付金を理由に困窮しては

It is difficult to be in distress due to loans.

ならないような

"Not to become"

それをきっかけに相談につながらない

That has become a trigger for not being able to consult.

というようなことが起きてはならないような

It should not be allowed for such things to happen.

そういった趣旨の

of that nature

貸付金で

With the loan.

こういった事態が起こっていることに

Regarding the occurrence of such situations.

やっぱりすごくショックを受けましたし

I was really shocked after all.

男性に

To a man.

それは行政の窓口で

That is at the administrative office.

ちゃんと説明すれば解決できることです

It is something that can be resolved if explained properly.

っていうお話をして

Let's talk about that.

男性も

Men too.

自分の意思で

Of my own will.

生活保護を受けてみたいですって

"I want to experience receiving welfare."

おっしゃってくれたっていうことがあって

There was something you mentioned.

すごくこの時の経験が

This experience at that time was amazing.

私の中でとても大きいものだ

It is something very big within me.

になっていったんですね

It became that way, didn't it?

どうして彼は

Why does he...

支援につながらなかったのか

Did it not lead to support?

どうしたら

What should I do?

自分は

I am.

自分がこのまま

If I continue like this

死んでいくのかなとか思いながら

I wonder if I'm dying.

毎日暗い中で生きてきたって

"I've lived every day in darkness."

おっしゃってたんですけれども

You mentioned it, but...

そんなふうに思わないでいられるのかなって

I wonder if it's possible to think like that.

いうことを考えたっていうのが

What I thought was that...

社会福祉士を

Social worker.

資格を取りたいなと思った

I thought I wanted to obtain a qualification.

きっかけの一つだったなって

That was one of the triggers.

今振り返ると思います

I think about it now as I look back.

中村さんの話を聞いていると

When I listen to Mr. Nakamura's story,

本当に

Really.

すごいなって思うんですけど

I think it's amazing.

ボランティアから入って

Starting with volunteering.

取材して

Conduct an interview.

さらに

Furthermore

社会福祉士の資格って

What is the qualification of a social worker?

なかなか取れないですよね

It’s hard to get, isn’t it?

そこまでの労力とか

The effort up to that point.

時間を割けるのがすごいなって

It's amazing that you can dedicate your time.

率直に思います

I think frankly.

社会福祉士ちょっと勉強して

I will study a little bit about social work.

すごく

Very much.

勉強になったというか

It's more like I've learned something.

結構記者の仕事と通じるなって

I think it really connects with the work of a journalist.

思ったんです

I was thinking.

どういうところが

What kind of place is it?

話を聞くっていう仕事ですよね

It's a job that involves listening to stories, right?

新聞記者って

What about newspaper reporters?

その支援も

That support too.

結構第一なのが

The first thing is quite important.

話を聞くっていうところで

In terms of listening to the conversation...

どういうふうに

In what way?

人と対峙するかとか

Whether or not to confront people.

どんな言葉書きをするかっていうところも

It's also about what kind of writing we will do.

勉強したりするんですけれども

I study and such.

それがすごく

That's amazing.

新聞記者も一度こういう

Even newspaper reporters have experienced this once.

学びをしてみると

When you try to learn...

取材にも生きてくるのかなって

I wonder if it will be useful in my interviews.

思ったりすることもありました

There were times when I thought that.

とはいえ

That said.

なかなか難しいとは思うんですけれども

I think it's quite difficult, but...

ちなみに

By the way

中村記者の

Reporter Nakamura's

新宿教授とか

Professor Shinjuku, for example.

皆さんさっき

Everyone just now

読んでらっしゃった方もいたと思うんですけど

I think there were people who were reading it.

もし

If

ここの場で

At this place.

せっかくなんで感想とかあれば

Since we have the opportunity, if you have any impressions or thoughts, please share.

お聞きいただけますか

Can you hear me?

さっき手を挙げていただいたので

Since you raised your hand earlier,

新聞記者ラジオとも

Radio of the newspaper reporter.

拝見してまして

I have been looking at it.

自分の身の周りにこうやって困っている人が

There are people around me who are struggling like this.

たくさんいるんだなって

There are a lot of them, aren't there?

実態を皆さんの記事で

In your articles about the reality.

知ることができました

I was able to know.

こうやって社会課題にも

This way, even social issues.

関心を持っていたので

Because I was interested.

個人的には今後何かコランティアとか

Personally, I'm interested in doing some volunteer work in the future.

自分でやってみたいな

I want to try doing it myself.

こういう役にあったら

If I were to take on such a role

ぜひ何かやってみたいと思います

I definitely want to try doing something.

すごい

Amazing.

奥野さんも

Mr. Okuno as well.

LGBTQとか

LGBTQ and so on.

子どもの問題などの

Regarding children's issues, etc.

取材をすごく長く続けていて

I've been conducting interviews for a very long time.

社会的に

Socially

弱い立場の人たちっていうことを

People in a weak position.

取材するっていう機会が

The opportunity to conduct interviews.

すごく多いですよね

There are really a lot, aren't there?

今スイッチして

Switch it now.

中村さんの話と私の話になるんですが

It's about Mr. Nakamura's story and my story.

今回はここまで

That's it for this time.

次回へ続きます

To be continued next time.

ありがとうございました

Thank you very much.