EP.16 羽渕彰博 / AKIHIRO HABUCHI（キャリブレーション・大阪）後編

清水綾子＋今田雅

ピリオドをはじめるにはどうしたらいいんだろう

新月の夜にお届けする

Delivered on the night of the new moon.

ピリオドを始めるにはどうしたらいいんだろう

I wonder how I can start my period.

はじめまして清水彩子と今田美亜美です

Nice to meet you, I'm Ayako Shimizu and I'm Miami Imada.

ここではピリオドを始めるにはどうしたらいいんだろうという問いを立て

Here, I raise the question of how to start a period.

未来を背中に過去の意味付けを体験していくという

Experiencing the interpretation of the past while carrying the future on one’s back.

対話から生まれた自信を発信していきます

I will share the confidence that has emerged from dialogue.

気づいた瞬間世界が始まる

The moment you realize, the world begins.

ピリオドを始めるにはどうしたらいいんだろう

I wonder how I should start my period.

最後にサピエンスの目線を取り入れようじゃないけど

Finally, let's not forget to include the perspective of sapiens.

時間軸がすごい長いんだろうなと思っていて

I think the timeline is probably very long.

私たちがホモサピエンスとして生きてきた時代の中の

Within the era in which we have lived as Homo sapiens

ほんの100年間で次の世代にどう渡すかみたいなところで考えると

When considering how to pass it down to the next generation in just 100 years,

未来って言ってもそんな近しいところの未来とかじゃなくて

It's not even a future that's close by when I say future.

そういう意味付けを体験していく

Experiencing that kind of meaning-making.

次では未来ってホモサピエンスの次の新人類が現れるんじゃないかぐらいの未来だし

Next, it’s a future where a new human species might emerge after Homo sapiens.

過去って言ったら私たちが生まれてくる前ぐらいの過去ぐらいのスパンなのかなと思ってて

When you say "the past," I think it refers to a span of time roughly before we were born.

それで言うと最近

Speaking of that, recently...

現在の積み重ねが未来になっていくっていうキーワードが

The keyword is that the accumulation of the present becomes the future.

また別の話で私と宮城さんの中ではあったりしてて

There might be another story between Miyagi-san and me.

現在っていうのは果たして

What is the present, really?

例えば秒で言うと何秒くらいの肌感なのかなって

For example, I wonder how many seconds that would feel like.

考えてたりもしたんですよね

I was also thinking about it, you know.

ある研究者がそれは18分の1秒だよみたいなことを言ってたりもするんですけど

One researcher mentioned something like it's one-eighteenth of a second.

その18分の1秒が正しいかどうかはさておいて

Putting aside whether that 1/18 of a second is correct or not.

あまりにも短すぎると人間は知覚ができないから

Because if it's too short, humans cannot perceive it.

それは一瞬として捉えられなくなっちゃって

It can no longer be captured as a moment.

連続してしまうので

Because it keeps happening continuously.

それの刻みに刻んだのが18分の1秒だよみたいなこともありますし

Sometimes it's like, "That's what we carved into it, it's one-eighteenth of a second."

前回の辰野美くん

Last time's Tatsuno Miku.

映像の子がフレームレートっていうキーワードをくださっていて

The child in the video has given me the keyword "frame rate."

あまりにも細かすぎて滑らかな映像って

It's a video that's too detailed and smooth.

人間にとってはすごく違和感になっちゃうみたいな

It seems like it would be very awkward for humans.

っていうところで言うと

In that regard,

最適な切り方みたいなのがあるので

There is a way to cut it that works best.

そういうのがあるんだよみたいな話をしてて

It's like talking about how those kinds of things exist.

現在とか一瞬っていうのをどれくらいのスパンで捉えてるかって

How do you perceive the present moment and the idea of an instant in terms of duration?

見方みたいなところもすごく反映するなって思ってて

I think it really reflects perspectives and viewpoints.

その話もあったから

That was part of the story.

割と私は今一瞬みたいなことをどれだけ刻めるかなみたいなことで

I'm wondering how much I can capture moments like that in this brief instant.

考えてたんですけど

I was thinking about it.

前半の羽生さんの話聞いてた

I was listening to Hanyu's talk in the first half.

なんか逆かもしれないっていうのはすごく感じてたんですけど

I felt like it might be the opposite a lot.

めちゃめちゃ伸ばしてるみたいなことも

It seems like I'm really stretching things out.

あり得るなと思ったんですよね

I thought it was possible.

そのあたり羽生さん現在の捉え方みたいなのを

What is Hanyu's current perspective on that?

どう見てるのかなっていうのを改めて聞いてみたいなと思いました

I wanted to ask again how you see it.

ありがとうございます

Thank you.

これはまず僕いつも口癖で言うんですけど

This is something I always say as a habit.

どちらかじゃなくても

It doesn't have to be either one.

どちらかじゃなくてどちらもっていう

It's not either one or the other, but both.

アグヘイベンですね

It's Aguheiben, isn't it?

だからAとBの間に

So between A and B.

AとかBとかじゃなくて

It's not about A or B.

両方包括する何かっていうことなんですよ

It's something that encompasses both.

だからすっごい今も大事だし

So it's really important even now.

めちゃくちゃ引いた時間軸っていうのも大事だし

A super expanded timeline is also important.

どちらかじゃなくてどちらもなんですよね

It's not either one; it's both, isn't it?

それを両方見ることによって

By looking at both of them.

今もすごく集中できるし

I can still concentrate really well now.

逆に未来引くことによって

On the contrary, by pulling the future...

本質が見えたりもするので

Because you can sometimes see the essence.

なんかすごい僕は行ったり来たりする

Somehow, it's amazing how I keep going back and forth.

矢次郎兵衛のようにですね

Like Yajiroubei.

していくことがなんか大事なんじゃないかなっていう風に思ってて

I think it's important to keep doing things like that.

過ぎると逆に近視眼的になると思うんですよね

I think that if it goes on, it will ironically become shortsighted.

逆にその

On the contrary, that...

未来長い時間軸で捉えると

When viewed over a long time frame into the future

もう人間なんて大したことないんだとか

People aren't really that great anymore, or something like that.

コミュニティリズムに落ちる

Fall into community rhythm.

本当に役立ってるんですよ

It really is helping.

この今やってる仕事なんて別にどうなってないんだみたいな

It's not like this job I'm doing now really matters or anything.

感じに思えてくるんですよ

It starts to feel like that.

ピンキング見て自分ちっせえなみたいな思う

Watching "Pinking" makes me feel like my place is so small.

あの感情のもっとひどい版みたいなものに

It's like a worse version of that emotion.

だからどちらかじゃなくてどちらもだ

So it's not either one, but both.

行ったりしていくことが人間だなって

Going back and forth is what being human is all about.

バランス取っていくっていうんですかね

I suppose it's about keeping a balance.

どっちかに振ればうまくいくなんてことはない?

Is there no way for things to go well if you lean one way or the other?

一生中途半端やねんっていう

"I feel half-hearted my whole life."

うん Yeah

Yeah

うん

Yeah.

揺らいじゃってますね

It's wavering, isn't it?

そう

Yes.

揺らぐのが人間なんで

It's human to waver.

だったら揺らごうよって感じなんすよ

Then it feels like we should shake things up.

いいことだー

That's a good thing.

何パキっとしようとしてんだよっていうね

What are you trying to break or snap?

Sounds good!

要するに整理してとか

In short, organize it or something.

なんかこう

Somehow like this...

まぁились.... 論ってみないとダメかと言ってたけどもね

Well... I said we might have to discuss it, but...

3つありましてとか

There are three, and so on.

そんなことないのよ

That's not true.

分かんないって

I don't understand.

だから分かんないってことも

So that means I don't understand.

認めるってことも大事だと思うんですね

I think it's also important to acknowledge it.

分かるって分けるってことなんで

Understanding means to distinguish.

分かるって大事なんだけど

Understanding is important, but…

分かろう分かろうと思うと

When I try to understand,

すごい数値化したりとか

Amazing how it's quantified and such.

つまんなくなると思うんですよね

I think it will become boring.

分からない世界

A world I don't understand.

今なんで僕ここで生まれてきたのか

"Why was I born here now?"

分かんないですよ

I don't know.

こうやって話しても分かんない

I don't understand even after talking like this.

分かんないことも受け入れることも大事で

It's important to accept the things you don't understand.

だから人間の面白さってあると思うんですよね

That's why I think there's something interesting about humans.

それだけやってると

If you keep doing that...

ただの哲学者になっちゃうんで

I would just become a philosopher.

やっぱ仕事も大事だしとか

"After all, work is also important and so on."

やっぱどちらかじゃなくて

It's not one or the other after all.

どちらもだなって

Both, I guess.

思うんですよね

I think so.

いつも言い去り来たりしてますね

You always come and go, don't you?

そういう意識してるっていう

I’m aware of that kind of thing.

組織とかでも

Even in organizations

例えばなんだろうな

For example, what could it be?

よくあるのが

What often happens is

みんなが尊重して

Everyone respects.

自立してたほうがいい

It's better to be independent.

そういう口はあるじゃないですか

There is such a mouth, isn't there?

そっちに傾いてもいいんですよ

It's okay to lean that way.

逆にこっちはルールきっちりするって感じです

On the contrary, it feels like we are sticking to the rules strictly here.

自立的に

Independently

自主的にやったら

If you do it voluntarily.

めっちゃバラバラになってくるんですよ

It starts to get really scattered.

だからちょっと絞らないと

So I need to tighten it a bit.

ルールを選べないと

If you can't choose the rules.

ただの

Just a

右往の主になっちゃうねみたいな

It feels like I'll become the master of right and left.

ちょっとルールやろうと

I just want to try some rules.

でもルールやるとギスギスしちゃうんですよね

But when we play by the rules, it gets a bit tense, doesn't it?

なんかこう

Something like this...

もっと緩めようとか

Let's loosen up more.

なんかそうやって中途半端なことやって

Doing something half-hearted like that...

失敗して

Failed.

地点抜刀しながら

While unsheathing the sword at the location.

なんとなくこうやって生きてる

I'm somehow living like this.

っていうのが

That is to say

人間だと思うんですよね

I think it's human.

そこを受け入れたほうがいい

It’s better to accept that.

経験立てまして

With experience.

経験通りうまくいくんですと

It goes well according to experience.

そんなわけねえから

That's not how it is.

ぐちゃぐちゃぐちゃしてた

It was all messy and tangled up.

こっち来たみたいな

It seems like you came this way.

だって

Because.

自分のキャリアなんて

My career, or something like that.

今こうなってるって

It's like this now.

10代のこと想像できたかって

Did you imagine what it would be like to be in your teens?

なってないじゃないですか

It's not happening, is it?

なんか1年後のことも分かんないですよね

I can't really understand what will happen a year from now.

なんで組織だったら分かんねえって話なんですよ

The thing is, if it's organized, I can't understand it.

それ

That.

人類目線で考えてくれると

If you think from the perspective of humanity,

法人も人間なんで

A corporation is also a human being.

法人って言ってもらえたときに

When I was told that I was a corporation.

未来のことなんて分かんねえじゃんって

You can't know about the future, can you?

ただこっちの方行くとワクワクするねとか

It's exciting to go this way, isn't it?

選択肢があって

Having options

その選択肢共感するメンバー

Members who resonate with that option.

でそこまで目指す

Aiming for that point.

目指したら違ったね

It was different than I aimed for.

ここじゃなかったねとかなって

It wasn't here, was it?

またこっち行く

I'm going over there again.

繰り返して死ななきゃいいんですよね

As long as you don't die from repeating it, right?

確かに

Certainly.

今の話聞いてて

I was listening to the story just now.

産業革命らへんだったりとか

Around the time of the Industrial Revolution.

高度成長期って

The period of rapid economic growth.

いろんなものが

Various things

なかった時代から

From a time when there was nothing.

生み出されていった時代だと思うんですよ

I think it was an era that was being created.

便利になるものたちがたくさん

There are many things that make life more convenient.

大量生産で

Mass production.

だからある程度

So to some extent.

未来が予測できてる

The future can be predicted.

しかも結構大量生産で

Moreover, it is produced in quite large quantities.

みんなが同じ方向を向いて

Everyone is facing the same direction.

一生懸命やっていかないといけない

I have to do my best.

みたいな流れもあったから

Because there was a flow like that.

ルールで体系化されていくっていうところが

The part where it gets systematized by rules.

一番システマティックで

The most systematic and

効率的だったみたいなところだと思うんですけど

I think it seemed to be efficient.

今も

Still now

十分すぎるほど

More than enough.

ものもあふれてるし

There are also plenty of things.

だから

So.

そういう中で

In such a situation

自分たちがどう生きていくのか

How we are going to live our lives.

ってなった時に

When that happens,

しかも選択肢もたくさん増えちゃって

Moreover, the choices have increased a lot.

昔よりも

More than in the past.

それぞれの思考もバラバラだし

Each person's thinking is also different.

認知できるものもバラバラで

The things that can be recognized are also varied.

しかも情報がすぐ手に入ることによって

Moreover, by having information readily available

情報格差もなくなってきてるじゃないですか

The information gap is also starting to disappear, isn't it?

選べるし

You can choose.

それが結構やっぱり

That's quite something, after all.

社会の状況っていうのの

The situation of society

変化っていうのが

The thing called change.

大きいなと思っていて

I was thinking it's big.

何の話しようと思ったか

What was I going to talk about?

ちょっとわからんくなってきた

I'm starting to get a little confused.

予測が不可能になってくるんですよ

It becomes impossible to predict.

みんながどんな選択するか

What choices everyone will make.

分かんないから

I don't understand.

未来が

The future is

多分すごい

Maybe amazing.

速さで変わってくから

It changes with speed.

いろんなものが

Various things

その時は

At that time

予測できないじゃないですか

It's unpredictable, isn't it?

それこそ

Exactly that.

分からないを受け入れた方がいいと思うんですよね

I think it's better to accept that you don't understand.

それを

That.

分かろうと

To try to understand

分かるものだとか

I understand things like that.

計画できるものだとか

Things that can be planned.

信じ込みすぎちゃってるから

Because I'm believing it too much.

しんどいんですよ

It's tough.

おそらく

Probably

自分たちが教育を受けてきた時には

When we were receiving our education,

やっぱりゴールに目指して

After all, aiming for the goal.

そのためには何をやるかを考えなさい

Think about what you will do for that.

みたいな

受けてきちゃってるじゃないですか

You've already been through it, haven't you?

そこがもう

That's already there.

違うようになってきてるんじゃないかな

I think things are starting to change.

っていうのが

That is...

思っていて

I was thinking.

教育も変わりつつあるけど

Education is also changing.

なんか

Something.

揺り戻しっていうか

It's more like a recoil.

今だから

Now, because it's now.

便利行きすぎちゃったから

It became too convenient.

ちょっと不便なものとか

Things that are a bit inconvenient.

人に行きすぎたから

Because I went too far with people.

身体的なものとか

Things that are physical, etc.

バランスを

Balance.

多分お二人も

Maybe you two as well.

何か感じ取りながら

While sensing something

ピリハジやられてるのも

Pilihaji is also being affected.

別の

Another

選択肢もあるんじゃないかっていう

I think there are also options available.

模索とか

Exploration and such.

そっちに

Over there.

振りすぎることの

Overdoing it.

違和感みたいなことを

Something like a sense of discomfort.

早めに感じ取られて

Felt early on.

会話しながら

While having a conversation.

選択肢を増やす活動を

Activities to increase options.

やるかなっていう風に思うんですけど

I think I might do it.

でもだからこそ

But that's exactly why.

便利にも

Conveniently too

行っちゃってほしいんですよね

I want you to go.

なんていうんですかね

What do you call it, I wonder?

とか

and so on

ゴールを決めて

Score a goal.

逆算するみたいなことも

It's like doing something in reverse calculation.

なんか

Something.

受け入れてほしい

I want you to accept me.

なと思ってて

I was thinking that.

ともすれば

Sometimes

最近村ブームじゃないですか

Isn't there a recent village boom?

みんな村作ったり

Everyone is making villages.

ヒッピーな

Hippie-like

お金いりませんみたいな

Something like "I don't need money."

それもすごい理解できるんですよ

I can really understand that too.

それもすごい大事だし

That's really important too.

資本主義とかも

Things like capitalism.

クソだとかね

It's like, damn.

そういう考え方もあるんですけど

There is that way of thinking, but...

なんか

Something.

とはいえ水出たり

That said, water is coming out.

いろんな恩恵

Various benefits

Amazonで届いたりも

It also arrived via Amazon.

あったりもするし

It can happen.

なんか

Something.

あ

ちょっとね

Just a little.

ズームが

Zoom is

ちょっとズームが今

The zoom is a bit off right now.

おかしかった

It was funny.

今大丈夫です

I'm fine right now.

だから

So.

そこを

There.

やっぱどちらかじゃなくても

I guess it doesn't have to be either way.

どちらも

Both.

ずっとやってほしいな

I want you to keep doing it.

っていうのが

That's what I mean.

期待はしないんですけど

I'm not expecting much, though.

僕は

I am.

でもなんか

But somehow

それをやってもらえるの

Can you do that for me?

すごくいいな

That's really nice.

と思って

I thought so.

思ってて極端に振りすぎない

Don't swing too far to extremes in your thoughts.

ピリハジもいいなと思ったのは

I thought Pirahaji was nice too.

結論ないじゃないですか

There's no conclusion, is there?

それがいいじゃないですかって

That sounds good, doesn't it?

BGMみたいな感じで

Like a background music vibe.

モンモンと

In a state of unease.

モンモンバットも渡し続けるみたいな

It seems like they also continue to hand over the Monmon Bat.

哲学的な用語で言うと

In philosophical terms, it can be said that...

ネガティブキリッパビリティ

Negative Kirippability

そういうカオスな状況に

In such a chaotic situation.

身を置き続けられることっていうのも

Being able to continue to be present is also...

すごく大事なこと

Very important matter.

この不確実な時代にすごい大事な

This is incredibly important in this uncertain era.

あり方で

In the way of being.

それを実践されてらっしゃるんだろうな

I guess you are putting that into practice.

っていう風に感じました

I felt that way.

私たち基本的に

Basically, we...

そこで

So, then.

そこまで考えずにやってるんで

I'm doing it without thinking that far.

いつもゲストの皆さんに

To all the guests always.

そう言ってもらって

Thank you for saying that.

そうかもしれないっていう考えのもと

Under the thought that it might be so.

また思考が働き始めて

Once again, my thoughts are starting to work.

そういう風に落としていく

That's how you let it go.

いいですよね

That's nice, isn't it?

なんかお二人がいいのは

There's something nice about the two of you.

なんか才能だと思うけど

I think it's some kind of talent.

これはもやもやしてる状況って

This is a situation that's unclear and frustrating.

起きやすいし

It's easy to wake up.

普通は生きづらいし

Living normally is often difficult.

生きづらいんですよ

It's hard to live.

皆さんが今いらっしゃる土地

The land where you all are right now.

生きづらい土地なんですね

It's a difficult place to live, isn't it?

なのに楽しそうっていう

Yet it seems so fun.

それがいいんですよ

That's what is good.

こっちの方がいいんじゃねって思う

I think this is better, isn't it?

騙す人が何名かこれ聞いて

A few people who deceive will hear this.

行ったらすげえ悩むぞみたいな

"If you go, you're definitely going to be troubled."

笑い声

Laughter

じゃあ

Well then.

なんかそういうことを

Something like that.

なんかやれるのがいいなと思ってて

I think it's nice to be able to do something.

なんかやっぱり

"Somehow, after all..."

悪の話していいっすか

Can I talk about evil?

どうぞ

Please.

なんか僕谷梨沙さんめっちゃ好きで

For some reason, I really like Risa Tani.

谷梨沙タカヤさんアンパンマン

Tani Risa Takaya's Anpanman

はい

Yes

で

So, then.

アンパンマン最初出た時も

When Anpanman first appeared

ちょっとなんか足りないって

It's still a little lacking.

何か足りないってなって

Feeling like something is missing.

うん

Yeah.

で

バイキンマン出たんですよね

The germ man appeared, didn't he?

それがすごいヒットしていくんです

It becomes a huge hit.

さっきのどちらかじゃなくてどちらもっていうのは

It's not either one from before, but both.

正しいとか綺麗とか美しいとかじゃなくて

It's not about being right, pretty, or beautiful.

悪の力とか負の感情とか

Evil power and negative emotions.

そういうところを活用していくっていうんですかね

I guess it means taking advantage of those kinds of places.

みたいなこともすごく大事だなと思っていて

I think things like that are really important.

アンパンマンって

What is Anpanman?

何か問題があった時に対処するんですね

You deal with issues when there are problems, right?

でもバイキンマンは

But Germs Man...

世界征服したろうってことで行動するんですよ

"We're going to take action with the intent of conquering the world."

自分でメカ作るじゃないですか

You make the mecha yourself, don't you?

アンパンマン作ってもらうみたいな感じ

It's like being made into Anpanman.

バイキンマンはバイキンマンなのに

Despite being Baikinman, he is still Baikinman.

エゴをちゃんと見せてて魅力なんですよね

It's the charm of properly showing your ego.

うんうんうん

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

うんうん

Yeah, yeah.

僕はやっぱり人間って

I guess humans are still...

アンパンマンってどこかちょっと嘘くさいじゃないですか

Isn't Anpanman a little bit fake in some way?

でもバイキンマンってめっちゃ人類なんですよ

But Baikinman is super human.

確かに

Certainly.

やってることだって

What you're doing.

企業って

What is a company?

家入り一馬さんって企業家の人が言ってたんですけど

I heard from a businessman that Kazuma Iaiiri is a person.

ゴーゴスって書いて企業なんです

It's a company named "Gogos."

ゴーっていうのは人のエゴ

"Go" is a person's ego.

仏教用のエゴとか欲とかなんですけど

It's about the ego and desires in Buddhism.

今のこの現代社会だと

In today's modern society,

何か突っ張らない

Nothing feels tense.

いずれからゴーを出して

Please give the go-ahead from somewhere.

ゴーを起こして

Wake up Go.

自分のやりたい方に

In the way I want to do it.

世界を持ってくっていうのが

Taking the world with me.

仏教だって言ってて

You say it's Buddhism.

それすっごくいいなと思ったんですよ

I thought that was really great.

めっちゃいいことしようとかじゃなくて

It's not about doing something really great.

自分のゴーを満たしてる

I am fulfilling my goals.

はいはいはい

Yes, yes, yes.

それが結果誰かの役に立ったり

In the end, it helped someone.

誰かは嫌だって言うかもしれないけど

Someone might say they don't like it, but...

誰かはすごく救われたりもする

Some people get really saved.

でもそれも期待しない

But I won't expect that either.

あくまで自分がやりたいからやってるんだよって

"I'm doing it solely because I want to."

うんうんうん

Uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh.

なんかその状態ってすごく健全だなと思ってて

I think that state is really healthy.

だからもう

So, that's it then.

騙すじゃねえよみたいな

Don't try to fool me.

うん

Yeah.

でも

But

そういう文脈あると思うんですけど

I think there is such a context.

怒りってめっちゃ大事で

Anger is really important.

なんか子供がいじめにあってたら

If a child is being bullied...

そのいじめた子めっちゃ腹立つじゃないですか

That kid who bullied is super irritating, isn't he?

うんうんうん

Uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh.

それは何でかって言うと

The reason for that is...

子供が傷つけられるのが悲しいし

It's sad when children are hurt.

あなた子供を大切に思ってるから

You care about your child.

怒りってのが湧くんですよね

I feel anger rising.

すごい愛に紐づいてるんですよ

It’s tied to an incredible love.

うんうんうん

Uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh.

例えばたまたま

For example, unexpectedly.

虫が蛍光灯にぶつかって

A bug bumped into the fluorescent light.

ちょっと虫がなんかこう

There's a bug or something.

蛍光灯に溜まってるみたいなのあるじゃないですか

It's like there's something accumulating in the fluorescent lights, isn't there?

うんうんうん

Uh huh, uh huh, uh huh.

そーってならないじゃないですか

That can't be helped, can it?

虫が

Insect

そーってならないじゃないですか

That won't do, will it?

それは別に愛に紐づいてないから

That's not necessarily tied to love.

虫邪魔だなみたいな

It's like, "Bugs are such a nuisance."

思うじゃないですか

Don't you think so?

だから光とかを

So light and such.

うん

Yeah.

うんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうんうん

Hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm.

パワーをちゃんと受け入れていく人類は闇ありますから

Humanity has darkness, so we need to properly accept the power.

戦争するし闇ベースですよちゃんと受け入れたときに

It's a dark base because we are at war, but it becomes clear when we properly accept it.

すごいパワーが出るんじゃないかな

I think a great power will come out.

なんかピリハジも世界征服っていうか宗教なのか

It seems like Pirihaji is not just about world domination, but also religion, huh?

この混沌としたゾーンに人を引き引き込むみたいな

It's like pulling people into this chaotic zone.

そういうバイキンマンになってほしいですよね

I want you to become that kind of Baikinman, you know.

そうですよ私たちは悪いことしてるんですよ

That's right, we are doing something bad.

そのぐらいなんか吉本ゆうめさんって思想家

"Yoshimoto Yuumei is somewhat of a thinker."

の方がいいことしてるって思ってる

I think I'm doing better things.

っていうほど

"To the extent that"

うん

Yeah.

悪いことしてるって思った方がいいっていう

It's better to think that you're doing something bad.

考えがあっていいことしてるって言っても

Even if I say I have a thought and I'm doing something good,

すごい正義感出て私たちはいいとか

A strong sense of justice comes out, as if we're doing well or something.

なんか自分ってこといいとか思ってたら

I was thinking that I'm something good or something.

なんか傲慢になって本当に逆に

Somehow I've become arrogant, but in reality, the opposite is true.

かえってなんだろうな結果的に見たら

I wonder what it would be like; when I look at the results.

変な感じになってるみたいなことって

It feels like something strange is happening.

あったりするんで悪いことしてるくらい

It might happen, like I'm doing something bad.

と思ってるときの方がちょうどいい

It's just right when you think that way.

って言っててなるほどと思ったんすよね

I see what you mean.

そういうことをやってたりキャリブレーションも僕めっちゃ

I've been doing things like that, and I'm really into calibration too.

いいと自分は思ってるんでバイキンマンみたいにそれを世界

I think it's good, so like Baikinman, let's share it with the world.

制服してみんなもその思考の OS変えたろうとかね

"I'll change everyone's thinking OS in their uniforms, you know."

そういうことをやってたりもうなんかもうキャリブレーションも僕めっちゃいいと自分は思ってるんでバイキンマンみたいにそれを世界制服してみんなの思考のOS変えたろうとかね

I've been doing things like that, and I really think my calibration is great, so like Baikinman, I'm thinking of taking over the world and changing everyone's thought OS.

そのぐらいちょっと冗談でやるぐらいの方が

It's better to do it a little as a joke like that.

なんかいいなって

I think that's nice.

しんどくならないっていうんですかね

I guess you could say it doesn't get tiring.

って思ってますね

I think that.

めっちゃいいっす

It's really great!

切り端のさ

The edge of the cut.

リスナーさんにたまに

Sometimes to the listeners

聞いてますって言ってくださる人に

To those who say they are listening.

会ったりすると

When we meet.

あれ聞いてたらつい手が止まって

When I heard that, I couldn't help but stop my hands.

って言ってくれるんですよね

You say that, don't you?

ちゃんと聞いてくれて嬉しいなって

I'm glad you listened to me properly.

思っちゃったけど

I thought so, but...

もやもやの闇に引きずり込んで

Dragged into the murky darkness.

聞いた人に

To the person who heard it.

ペン止めさせてんすよ

I'm making you stop using the pen.

仕事にならないって言われる

I'm told it won't become a job.

それでしめしめって思わせるんです

That makes me feel like I've got the upper hand.

嬉しいじゃないですか

Isn't that delightful?

よっしゃペン止めたったっていう

I stopped the pen, you know!

ペン止め集団なんですよ

It's a group that stops pens.

ペン止め集団

Pen stop group

聞いちゃったら

If I hear it...

気になっちゃってどんどん聞いちゃってます

I'm getting curious and keep asking more and more.

って言われて

"That's what I was told."

世界中

The whole world.

から抜け出せないって言われるんですよ

I'm told that I can't escape from this.

闇に引きずり込むっすよ

I'll drag you into the darkness.

引きずり込んでしまう

Drag them in.

みなさん引きずり込まれてますよ

Everyone is being dragged in.

気づけてくださいよ

Please notice it.

目覚めてくださいちゃんと

Please wake up properly.

なんか笑顔で楽しそうだけど

It looks like you're having fun with a smile.

引きずり込まれてますよ

You're being dragged in.

介入されてますよ

You are being intervened.

なんて面白い

How interesting!

やばいやばい

Oh no, oh no!

なんかね

You know...

ぐらいでちょうどいい味で

It has just the right flavor.

そうですよね

That's right, isn't it?

なんかそのぐらいの無邪気さっていうのかな

I guess it's that kind of innocence, huh?

あっていいなって

I think it would be nice to have.

そのぐらいメタにしながら

While being that meta

でも没頭するっていうかね

But it's more like being engrossed.

この今に没頭する

Engrossed in this moment.

話に近づいてきますけど

I'm getting closer to the story, but...

今に集中しながら

While concentrating on the present.

メタでは悪いことしてるかもしれないぐらいの

I might be doing something bad in Meta.

その両輪を行ったり来たりしている

I am going back and forth between those two wheels.

なんかすごい健全だなって

It really feels wholesome somehow.

思ってますね

I think so.

いやなんかさっき

Well, earlier…

起業は業を起こすって書くんだっていうのは

"Starting a business is written as 'to start a profession.'"

なんかすごいすっきりしましたね

Somehow, it feels really refreshing, doesn’t it?

すっきりしていいかどうかわからないですけど

I'm not sure if it's refreshing or not.

でもこの切り端なんて業の塊じゃない

But this scrap is just a lump of karma.

そうそう

That's right.

なんかやっぱ何か起こすってなった時には

Well, when something happens after all...

基本的に

Basically

純度100%でただただ自分がやりたいからってので

"Simply because I want to do it, with 100% purity."

やっちゃうんですよ

I'm gonna do it!

いろんなものを

Various things

そうそうそう

That's right, that's right!

いいって誰のためにもなってないと思う

I don't think being nice helps anyone.

そうそうそうそう

Yes, yes, yes, yes.

それでなんかこれは何のために

So, what is this for?

誰のためにやってるんですかって言われて

Who are you doing it for?

そう

That's right.

自分のためですとしか答えられないんですよ

I can only answer that it's for myself.

そうそれがいいんですよ

Yes, that's good.

今がおもろいからやってる

I'm doing it because it's fun right now.

いいじゃん

That's good!

ザス

Zasu

って言う

"I say."

本当にそれしか答えられないよね

That's really the only answer you can give, isn't it?

それで勝手に聞いて

So feel free to ask.

手止まったとしても

Even if the hand stops.

知らんって言う

I don't know, you say.

そうそうそうそう

That's right, that's right, that's right!

私が好きで自分のためにやってるだけなんだもん

I'm just doing it for myself because I like it.

みたいな

Like that

そうそうそうそう

That's right, that's right, that's right, that's right.

好きでやって

I do it because I like it.

ちょっとそれが漏れただけって

It just leaked a little.

そうそうそうそう

Exactly, exactly, exactly, exactly.

それで不快な思いしたらもう聞かないで

If it makes you uncomfortable, then don't ask anymore.

そうそうそうそう

That's right, that's right, that's right, that's right.

別に誰かが聞いてるときに

It's not like someone is listening.

誰かを喜ばすためにもやってないっていう

"I'm not doing this to make someone happy."

うんうんうん

Uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh.

それが

That is it.

かえって喜ぶんですよ

They actually end up being happy about it.

人は

People are

そのピアサに

To that pier.

ピアサに

To Piaza.

うん

Yeah.

だから逆に言うと誰かを喜ばせようと思って

So conversely, if you think about making someone happy...

しなきゃいけないことをやったときって

When you do something you have to do,

まあ喜ぶんだけどそこそこですか

Well, I’m happy, but it’s just so-so, right?

うんうんうん

Uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh.

うん

Yeah.

あとはね自分が楽しいかどうかが

The rest is whether or not you find it enjoyable.

うんうんうんあとはね自分が楽しいかどうかが

Yeah, yeah, yeah, after that, it all comes down to whether you're having fun or not.

ならない

It won't do.

そのときに

At that time

そうそうそうそうそうそう

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

うんうん

Uh-huh.

でもなんか人が例えば

But somehow, for example, people...

めっちゃおいしそうにご飯食べてたら

You were eating your meal so deliciously.

うん

Yeah.

なんか嬉しいじゃないですか

Isn't it somehow嬉しい?

笑うと幸せそうみたいな

It seems like you look happy when you smile.

そうそうそうそう

That's right, that's right, that's right, that's right.

うん

Yeah.

なんかそういうことだなーと思って

I think that's kind of how it is.

それって

What is that?

うん

Yeah.

もうちょっと構造的に見ると

If we look at it a little more structurally.

うん

Yeah.

だからなんか

So, somehow...

気に入って

I like it.

気ぃ使われながら

While being considerate.

うん

Yeah.

やれると確かに嬉しいけども

I'm certainly happy to be able to do it, but...

うん

Yeah.

なんか気ぃ使わせちゃってるなーって罪悪感とか

I have a feeling of guilt that I'm making someone feel pressured or like they have to be considerate.

はいはい

Yes, yes.

問題気がさとか

"What's the problem?"

はい

Yes

そういうのってあったりするじゃないですか

Things like that happen, right?

はいはい

Yes, yes.

で純粋に楽しんでおいしいご飯食べて

So just enjoy and eat delicious food purely.

わーっとかなってる人とか

People who are going "wow" or something like that.

はい

Yes

多分その見てる人もそうありたいなーって思うと思うんですよ

I think the person watching probably feels the same way and wishes to be that way too.

うん

Yeah.

この人も裸ではしゃいでるわみたいな感じ

It feels like this person is also playing around naked.

ふふふふふふふふふ

Hehehehehehe.

うん

Yeah.

それがなんかちょっと嬉しいっていうか

That makes me a little happy, you know?

うんうん

Uh-huh.

思ってるっていうか

It's not so much that I'm thinking about it, but...

うんうん

Uh-huh.

うん

Yeah.

なんかそれが

Somehow that's it.

うん

Yeah.

なんか大

Something big.

大事だなーと思ってて

I think it's important.

うんうん

Uh-huh.

だから全然矛盾しないですよね

So it doesn't contradict at all, right?

うん

Yeah.

人を喜ばせることと

To make people happy and

うん

Yeah.

自分が楽しむことって

What it means to enjoy oneself.

うん

Yeah.

しない

I won't do it.

うん

Yeah.

でもなんか仕事って

But somehow work is...

うん

Yeah.

自分は我慢して

I will endure.

うん

Yeah.

お客さんのためを喜ばせるみたいな状況になって

It has become a situation where we aim to please the customers.

うんうん

Uh-huh.

うん

Yeah.

もう頭悪いんじゃないかなと思うんですよね

I can't help but think that my head is getting a bit dumb.

うん

Sure.

確かに確かに

Indeed, indeed.

あれ

That.

もっと人類を考えろよって

Think more about humanity.

うん

Okay.

観察してんのかって思うんですよね

I can't help but think that someone is watching.

うんうんうんうん

Hmm, hmm, hmm, hmm.

だからすごくかえって人を喜ばせてる

So it's really making people happy in return.

でも逆算して人を喜ばせてるわけじゃない

But it's not like I'm calculating backwards to make people happy.

うん

Yeah.

これがめっちゃ大事だと思うんですよ

I think this is really important.

うんうんうんうん

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

自分が楽しむ結果盛れる

The result of enjoying myself is that it becomes more fulfilling.

うん

Yeah.

大事で

It's important.

それは多分仏教の

That is probably Buddhism.

利他と利己

Altruism and selfishness.

っていうのにも多分つながってくる

I think it probably connects to that.

と思う

I think so.

じゃあ利他って何かって話なんですね

So, the question is, what is altruism?

利他的な行動

Altruistic behavior

人のために

For the sake of others.

みたいな感じ

It feels like that.

さっきの

Just now.

じゃあなんか

Well, something...

期待だと思って

I think it's期待.

この人困って

This person is in trouble.

喜ぶんじゃないかな

I think they will be happy.

と思って

I thought so.

髪切ったんですか

Did you get a haircut?

みたいな

Like.

あえてちょっと髪切ったら

If you dare to cut your hair a little.

髪切ったって気づいた方がいいんじゃないかな

I think you should notice that I got my hair cut.

髪切ったとか

Did you cut your hair?

言うんだけども

I'm saying it, but...

本人はめっちゃカット

The person is super cut.

失敗したなと思ってて

I think I failed.

言われるの嫌みたいな

It seems like you don't like being told.

それは利他なのかって話

Is that altruism?

逆にちょっと失敗してるな

On the contrary, it seems like a bit of a failure.

と思ってそっとしておくみたいな

It seems like you're thinking of just leaving it alone gently.

分かってくる

I understand.

分かるかもしんないし

I might understand.

何が言いたいかっていうと

What I want to say is...

利他っていうのは

Altruism, what it means is...

人が楽しい

People are fun.

人がありがとうって

People say thank you.

思って

Thinking.

初めてそれは利他的な行動として

For the first time, it was seen as an altruistic action.

定義されるんですよ

It will be defined.

人が受け取って初めて

Only when a person receives it.

人が受け取るかどうか

Whether a person receives it or not.

っていうのは

What that means is

自分じゃ行動できない

I can't take action on my own.

分かんないですね

I don't know.

いくら自分が利他的な行動を

No matter how much one engages in altruistic behavior...

しようとしても

Even if I try to do it

相手がそう受け取らないんだったら

If the other person doesn't perceive it that way…

利他的な行動にはならないですよ

It won't be considered altruistic behavior.

うん

Yeah.

なんかこう

Something like this...

本当は彩子さんが好きだよとか言って

"I actually like you, Ayako."

どんどん毎日

More and more every day.

チョコレートとか送って

Send me chocolate or something.

なんか手作りのとか

Like something handmade or something.

ちょっと迷惑じゃないですか

Isn't that a bit annoying?

ストーカー

Stalker

だいぶ迷惑

Quite a nuisance.

怖い怖い

Scary, scary.

これをもう私は利他的な行動なんですけど

This is already an altruistic action for me.

やって4篇はいこ

Let's do four pieces.

なん

What?

ん

Hmm.

だから

So,

まあ

Well.

人が

A person

同派ダンス社受け取ったかったら

If you want to receive from the same dance company.

ギターですと

It's a guitar.

ん

Hmm.

うん

Yeah.

これを

This.

どう捉えて

How to perceive it.

感覚買った話なんですけど

It's a story about buying a sensation.

まず

First

じゃあ

Well then.

自分がやった行動で

With the actions I took

今のこのピリハジが

Right now, this Pirihaji is...

そうなんですけど

That's true, but...

別にリコ的にやってるんですよ

I'm just doing it in a Riko way, you know.

うん

Yeah.

Xuan

フッ六 Não Se este

"Huh? No, if this..."

利己的にやってるんですけど

I'm doing it selfishly, though.

誰かがリタイアの

Someone is retiring.

いいポジティブに受け取って

Take it positively.

リタイアにつながってるんですよ

It's connected to retirement.

だから

So.

わがままに利己的にやったのが

What I did was selfishly and stubbornly.

勝手にリタイアになってるんですよね

It's been automatically retired.

今の状態って

What's the current situation?

だから

まず利己的にやっていい

First, it's okay to do it selfishly.

っていう話と

That's the story.

あとリタ的な

Also, something like Rita.

受け取った側っていう

It's the receiving side.

聞いて手止まって

"Stop your hands and listen."

すごい楽しかったですっていう人が

People who say they had an amazing time.

いたとするじゃないですか

Let's say there was.

なんかそれをやることによって

By doing that somehow,

このピリハジっていう

This is called Pirihaji.

すげえ利己的な

Incredibly selfish.

活動が

Activity is

まるでリタになってんすよね

It's like I'm becoming Rita.

まるでリタ

Just like Rita.

って言うと

Speaking of which

だから

So.

誰かがリタにしてるってことは

That means someone is doing it to Rita.

なんか

Somehow

例えばなんだろうな

For example, what could it be?

人になんかしてもらうの

Having someone do something for you.

申し訳ないとかって思う人も

There are also people who feel apologetic.

いないじゃないですか

They aren't here, are they?

でもなんか

But somehow

誰かの

Someone's

やってることを受け取ったり

Receiving what is being done.

見つけてもらったり

Being found or discovered.

受け取ることによって

By receiving it

活動がリタになるんですよ

The activity will become Rita.

ということは何かって

What does that mean?

いくと

Let's go.

人の恩をどんどんもらう

Receive people's kindness more and more.

っていうか

Well, actually...

あったり

That's right.

して

Do it.

ありがとうって言った瞬間に

The moment I said thank you.

その行動がリタに全部変わるんで

That action will change everything for Rita.

だから

So.

もらえまくったらいいですよ

It would be great if I could receive a lot.

テイク

Take

テイクして

Take it.

自分やりたいことやって

Do what you want to do.

それもリタに変わるし

That will also change to Rita.

だからもうやりたい方だ

So I want to do it already.

やればいいし

You can just do it.

受け取ればいいんですよね

I just have to accept it, right?

自分の好きなエゴのまま

As I please with my own ego.

それがリタにつながるっていう

That connects to Rita.

リタリコって言葉があって

There's a term called "Ritalico."

バジリリタとか

Basilisk and such.

なんかこう

Like, somehow...

繋がってるんですよね

We are connected, aren't we?

分断されてない

Not divided.

バイキンマンがいることで

Because there is Baikinman,

アンパンマンはすごく

Anpanman is amazing.

柳瀬たかしさんも感謝

Mr. Takashi Yanase is also grateful.

もうアンパンマンミュージアムに来て

I've come to the Anpanman Museum.

いるのでリタに繋がったんです

So I connected with Rita.

子供たちもドキドキして

The children are also excited.

だから自分のやりたいことに

So, to do what I want to do.

やったらいいんだよって

You should just do it.

私なんか

Someone like me

なんかしてもらうこと

Something to have done for you.

申し訳ないなとか

I feel really sorry about that.

思わずに受け取ったらいいっていう

"You should just accept it without thinking."

っていうのが

"That is..."

だから人のために何かしようとして

So, trying to do something for others,

いや自分は全然大丈夫ですって

No, I'm totally fine.

言ってるのは

What I'm saying is

全然リタじゃないんですよ

It's not a Rita at all.

逆にいくと

Conversely,

お二人の方がすごいリタだし

You two are amazing Rita.

むちゃくちゃリコ

Crazy Riko

これでいいっていう

This is fine.

そういう話なんですよ

That's the kind of story it is.

私たち体験しちゃってるんで

We are experiencing it.

もう言葉がもう染み入るから

Because the words are sinking in.

めっちゃきました

I came really a lot.

めちゃめちゃリコだし

It's super Rico!

リタになってません?

Aren't you being a little too overconfident?

そうなってますよね

It’s like that, isn’t it?

今の羽生さんの言葉も

Hanyu's words now too.

全部ある意味リタで

In a way, everything is Rita.

私たちにとってはもうありがとうございます

Thank you very much for us already.

話したいこと話してるだけなんで

I'm just saying what I want to talk about.

だから何かさっきの信頼の話あると思うんですけど

So I think there's something about trust from earlier.

借金じゃなくて

It's not a debt.

写真したらいいと思ってて人って

I think people who take photos are great.

写真?

Photo?

信用の信で

With the trust of 信 (shin).

だから信頼前借りする?

So, are you borrowing trust in advance?

できないかもしんないけど

I might not be able to do it, but...

やれる?とか言ってた

They were saying, "Can you do it?"

チャンス先にもらう?

Do you want to get a chance first?

実績もないのに

Without any achievements.

それはやばい

That's crazy.

それは私じゃん

That's me.

もう一度チャンスくれみたいな

I want you to give me another chance.

私じゃんどうしよう

What should I do?

写真しないとやっぱ人は大きくなれない

If you don't take pictures, people can't really grow.

だからどんどん写真したらいいと思うんです

So I think it's good to keep taking more and more photos.

エゴ的に写真したらいいと思うんです

I think it's good to take photos egotistically.

あーなるほど

Ah, I see.

リタに繋がるかもしんないし

It might connect to Rita.

繋がらないかもしんない

It might not connect.

やばいどうしよう

Oh no, what should I do?

どうしよう

What should I do?

みやみさんのこの前の佐賀のやつはさ

The thing Miyami did in Saga the other day was...

まさしく写真を

Indeed, a photograph.

写真やったよね写真しまくってる

I took pictures, right? I'm taking a lot of pictures.

写真してました?そう

Were you taking pictures? Yes.

写真しちゃうんですよ

I'm going to take a photo.

写真って言葉は知らなかったけど

I didn't know the word "photo."

無自覚の写真してましたいっぱい

I was taking a lot of unaware photos.

写真まみれですよ

It's filled with photos.

写真まみれだどうしよう

I'm surrounded by photos, what should I do?

どうしよう

What should I do?

これはなんかすごく良くて

This is really great for some reason.

写真なんでしていいのかっていうと

The reason why I can take photos is that...

写真して何か例えば

For example, take a picture.

自分がすごい社会的に成功するとかになるじゃないですか

If I become socially successful, right?

そしたら返すのは

Then, what I return is...

そんなことじゃなくて

It's not about that.

誰かに返せばいいんですよ

You can just return it to someone.

なるほど

I see.

もう恩送りなんですね

It's already paying it forward, isn't it?

なるほど

I see.

だから申し訳ないと思って

So I'm really sorry about it.

どんどん借りて

Keep borrowing more and more.

うんうんうんうん

Uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh.

どんどん偉くなって

Become more and more important.

どんどん出せやって話し合うんですよ

Let's discuss and keep bringing them out one after another.

誰かに

To someone

誰かの機会を作ってあげる

I will create an opportunity for someone.

だからこのラジオもそうですよね

So this radio is the same, right?

どんどん勝手に

Keep doing it freely.

話す機会とか

Opportunities to talk, etc.

作っていくとか

"Creating it or something."

いいですよね

It's nice, isn't it?

なんかすごい元気になった

I feel really energetic now.

どうしよう

What should I do?

なんかすごい

It's amazing somehow.

すごいねすごいねすごいね

That's amazing, that's amazing, that's amazing!

元気になった

I feel better now.

もうローパミン打ちまくってますからね

I'm already shooting up dopamine like crazy.

レトルトで打ちまくってますからね

I'm hitting it hard with ready-made meals.

逆に騙されたんかな

I wonder if I was tricked instead.

言葉なんで

Because it's language.

ピーカンなんで

It's peak time.

騙されてるんですよ

You are being deceived.

騙されたらどうしよう

What should I do if I get deceived?

僕ちなみに

By the way, I...

口うまいですよ

You're good with words, aren't you?

分かってるそれは

I understand that.

それは説明しなくても

That doesn't need an explanation.

多分100人中99.9人ぐらい分かってる

Maybe about 99.9 out of 100 people understand it.

騙されてるんだと思うんですよ

I think I'm being fooled.

でもそうやって騙された方がいいじゃないですか

But it's better to be deceived that way, isn't it?

そうですよ

That's right.

楽しかったらいいんですよ

As long as it was fun, that's all that matters.

自分が元気になったら

When I get better.

恋愛なんてもう完全騙されてるじゃないですか

Love is just a complete deception, isn't it?

世界中で一番キリだとか言って

They say it's the best in the world.

そんな

Such

騙されてるようなもんじゃないですか

Isn't it like being tricked?

盲目盲目

Blind blind

盲目になっても

Even if I go blind

それが

That is it.

あなたは世界で

You are in the world.

10億番目ですからね

Because it's the one billionth.

30億番目ですねって言われたら

If I were told it's the 3 billionth one, then...

なんてことになるじゃないですか

What a situation this has become!

騙されないってそういうことですかね

Is that what it means to not be deceived?

ファクトフルネスって言ってますけど

You're talking about factfulness, aren't you?

何で30億番目だよって話じゃないですか

Why is it the 3 billionth, though?

騙されたほうがいいんですよ人間

It's better for humans to be deceived.

馬鹿しちゃって騙されて

Being foolish and getting deceived.

エゴで

With ego

結婚なんか誰かのためになって

Marriage is something that benefits someone else.

余計嬉しい

I'm extra happy.

ちょっと勘違いしてるけど

You're a bit mistaken, though.

生きてくぐらいがちょうどいいかもしれない

It might be just right to live through it.

これぐらいみんな

Everyone is like this.

全然違う世界を

A completely different world.

生きてるのが

Living is...

捉えてるのが人間なんですよね

It's humans who are capturing it, isn't it?

それを

That.

擦り合わせるのって

It's about aligning or smoothing out differences.

めっちゃ難しいんですよ

It's really difficult.

うん

Yeah.

キャリブレーションですね

It's calibration, isn't it?

調整するのはすごい難しくて

It's really difficult to adjust.

だから目的

So the purpose

本当に目的があって

"Having a true purpose."

人って基本争うんで

People fundamentally争う (fight).

ずれるんで

It gets misaligned.

普通にしてたら

If you just act normally...

めっちゃ仲悪くなるんですよ

We end up really having a bad relationship.

でも人は一人で生きていけない

But a person cannot live alone.

うん

Yeah.

共同体があって

There is a community.

共に生きる

Living together

決めるから

I will decide.

わざわざめんどくさいけど

It's a hassle to go out of your way, but...

キャリブレーションするんですよ

I'm going to calibrate it.

共に生きるって決めたから

Because we decided to live together.

それで

So, then.

共に生きないっていう選択肢も

The option to not live together.

あってもいいと思うんですよね

I think it would be fine to have it.

違ったわみたいな音楽性の違いありましたね

There was a difference in musicality, like it was different.

みたいな

Like that.

Pepper Let's play

Pepper, let's play.

今日は

Today

みやみたの

Miyamitano

これまとめ

This is a summary.

23回3回サーバード会さん

23rd 3rd Servered Meeting

いや、みやみたの

No, I saw it.

kasifika

Kasifika

昔からイヤだったんだよね

I've disliked it since long ago.

こういうとこやだったと思っちゃうの

I think it was like this.

めっちゃ海が出て

The sea is really coming out.

まあでも

Well, but...

共に生きるってことがあるから

Because there is a thing called living together.

ぶつかるし思い込みの世界で生きてる

I collide and live in a world of assumptions.

共に生きたいからちゃんと調整する

I want to live together, so I will make proper adjustments.

でも基本的には思い込みの世界で生きてるんで

But basically, I live in a world of assumptions.

あんま干渉しない

I don't interfere much.

人の思い込みまで変えようとしない

It doesn't try to change people's preconceived notions.

それぞれ自分の思い込みのまま生きて楽しめたら

If each of us could live and enjoy life according to our own beliefs.

そばに近くに楽しんでる人がいたら

If there are people nearby enjoying themselves.

それぐらいで良くて

That's enough for that.

仲良くなっててもフィクションなんで

Even if we become close, it's still fiction.

自分の仲良いと思ってるけど

I think we're close friends, but...

相手はそう思ってないかもしれないじゃないですか

The other person might not think so, you know.

自分を騙して

Deceiving oneself.

自分が騙されて

Being deceived by oneself

生きてやれっていうのが

"Live your life."

多分人類的な楽しみ方なのかなって

Maybe it's a human way of enjoying things.

一生人のことなんて分かんなかった

I never understood others in my whole life.

つって死んでくって

It's like saying "I'm going to die."

自分がなんで生きてきたのか分かんないけど

I don't know why I've been living.

とりあえず生まれてきたこの時間を楽しんで

For now, enjoy the time you were born into.

好きな人と楽しんで喋って過ごして

Spend time enjoying conversations with the person you like.

バトン適当に渡して

Pass the baton randomly.

死んだっていう

They say (he/she) is dead.

だから楽しかったって知るのが夢っていう

That's why they say it's a dream to know it was fun.

うん

Yeah.

ちゃまらん

Chamarang

死ぬ前にね

Before I die.

後悔する人見るわけじゃないですか

I don't see people who regret.

自分のこのやりたかったところをやりきれなかった時に

When I couldn't fully accomplish the things I wanted to do.

急に死が迫った時に焦り始める

Start to panic when death suddenly approaches.

っていう生き方ぐらい

Just that kind of way of living.

それは多分ね

That's probably it.

純粋にリタを優先してしまったなと思うんですよ

I think I purely prioritized Rita.

社のためとか家族とか

For the company or for the family.

自分はちょっと

I'm a bit...

優先順位下げてた

I lowered the priority.

逆やと

It's the opposite.

まず自分を満たせると

First, fill yourself up.

自分を愛せ

Love yourself.

もう自分が一番かわいいですよ

I'm the cutest one already.

自分最高みたいな

Like I'm the best.

人から知りませんみたいな

"Like I don't know from others."

でも私かわいい

But I'm cute.

私も自分が世界で一番かわいいと思って

I also think that I am the cutest in the world.

違う世界で自分かわいいと思ってる人が100人いたら

If there were 100 people in a different world who thought they were cute...

ハッピーじゃん

That's happy, isn't it?

そんなハッピーなこともできるんで人類は

Humans can do such happy things.

そういう生き方をできる人たちがもっと増えていくと

If more people can live like that, then...

自殺とか

Suicide or something.

打つとか

Hit or something.

だから日本に来る人たちって

So, the people who come to Japan...

レス経験してる人多いですよね

Many people have experience with that, right?

死

Death

the 本当にこう自殺を近くで経験しあのされたりとか

"I have really experienced suicide closely, like witnessing it happening."

あの総曲性障害でこう常にこううつになっちゃう人とか

People who constantly become depressed due to that pervasive developmental disorder.

いう人たちがいて時にどうやって生きるのかどうやったら楽に生きれるのかってそのそんななもねなぜかギリギリのタイミングでリボンに来んすっ

There are people who say that, and sometimes wonder how to live or how to live more easily, yet for some reason, they come to the ribbon at the last possible moment.

そのなもねなぜかギリギリのタイミングでリボンに来んすっ

For some reason, she always shows up at the last minute with a ribbon.

そんな採用してないですよ別にそんな

We're not really hiring like that, you know.

とりあえずなんてかシェルターみたいな感じで

For the time being, it's kind of like a shelter.

とりあえずいたらいいって言うんですよ僕そういう時

For now, I just say it’s fine to be there during those times.

仕事しなくていいから

You don't have to work.

結構孤独になって家追い出されるとかね

It’s quite lonely, like being kicked out of home.

なんか離婚して家追い出されるとか

Something like getting divorced and being kicked out of the house.

うんうん

Uh-huh.

純粋にお金がなくなってなんか出ないといけないとか

Simply put, I have to go because I run out of money.

うんうん

Uh-huh.

来た時に屋根があったり軽くしっかりあったり

When I arrived, there were roofs, both light and sturdy.

話せる人がいるだけで

Just having someone to talk to.

それでちょっと楽っていう感じになって

So it feels a bit easier.

そこで自分がこうしたいとか

So what I want to do is...

不を経験するとか闇を経験しきった人って

People who have experienced misfortune or have fully experienced darkness.

人間のさっきの僕がサボろうとしてた自分を

The human self that was trying to slack off just now.

受け入れたみたいなことあるじゃないですか

It's like there's something you have accepted, isn't there?

その多分究極死を受け入れた人だと思うんですね

I think that person has probably accepted ultimate death.

っていう人は受け入れ方がすごい半端ないんで

People who say that have an incredibly extreme way of accepting things.

ちゃんと自分も愛して

Make sure to love yourself properly too.

利口もわがままも認めてとかになってくると

When it comes to acknowledging both cleverness and selfishness...

すごい楽になってくる

It's starting to become really easy.

そうすると創価性症がなくなってくるし

In that case, Soka's traits will start to diminish.

落ち着いてくる

Calming down.

波はあるけど

There are waves, but...

仕事ができなくなる

Unable to work.

それまでならないし

It won't happen until then.

雨の日もあれば

There are rainy days as well.

ちゃんと止まない日はないんで

There’s no day that doesn’t eventually come to a stop.

晴れていくっていうか

It's not so much that it's clearing up.

そういうの周りで見てきたからかもしれないですね

It might be because I've seen that kind of thing around me.

全部受け入れる

Accept everything.

自分の部分だけ見ないっていう

Not only looking at my own part.

なるべく楽に

As easy as possible.

そういう人と一緒にいると

When I'm with someone like that

さんまさんの生きてるだけで

Just by living, Mr. Sanma.

丸儲けじゃないですよ

It's not a sure profit.

生きること

Living.

ただいることへの感謝とか

Just gratitude for being there.

そういうことってあるんですよね

Such things do happen, don't they?

それがちゃんと満たされてたら

If that were properly fulfilled,

幸せで

Happy.

多くの人はなんだろうな

I wonder what many people think.

マズローの5段階

Maslow's Five Levels

自己実現欲求とかありますけど

There is a desire for self-actualization, but...

実は

Actually

承認欲求とか

Desire for approval and recognition.

自己実現欲求の前に

Before the desire for self-actualization.

3番目が所属単位の欲求っていうことなんですけど

The third point is the desire for affiliation with a unit.

そこが実は満たされてない

That place is actually unfulfilled.

場所とか

Places, etc.

認められないから

Because it is not recognized.

認められないといけないと思って

I think I need to be recognized.

スキルめっちゃ身につけるみたいな

It seems like you're really acquiring a lot of skills.

状態になってんなと思ってて

I was thinking it has become a state.

まずはそこを満たしていくっていう

First, let's fulfill that.

それは期待するっていうんじゃなくて

It's not that I'm expecting it.

期待もしたいんだけど

I want to have expectations, but...

でもいてもいいよっていう

"But it's okay if you want to stay."

別に否定もないけど

I don't particularly deny it, but...

期待はしてないっていうか

It's not that I'm expecting anything.

そういう距離感の方が

That kind of distance is better.

楽

Pleasure

って思いますかね

I wonder if that's the case.

重たい

Heavy

いや全然

No, not at all.

このピリハジでも何度か言ってるんですけど

I’ve mentioned this a few times even in this meeting…

私も実は旦那さんが

Actually, my husband...

突然亡くなってて

Suddenly passed away.

そうなんですね

I see.

その感情っていうのはとても分かるんですよね

I really understand that feeling.

それがやっぱり

That's just how it is after all.

いろいろなものを受け入れるように

To be open to various things.

自然となっていくっていうか

It's more like it becomes natural.

究極

Ultimate

そう

Yeah.

なんかやっぱり受け入れていくと

Somehow, when you really start to accept it...

楽になるんですよ

It becomes easier.

いろんなものが

Various things

本当におっしゃる通りだなと思っていて

I really think you are absolutely right.

そこから

From there.

別に反動というわけでもなくて

It's not really a backlash or anything.

おそらく

Probably

バイアスかかってた者たちが

Those who were biased

逆に亡くなってって

On the contrary, it's better to be dead.

本来の姿に戻ったっていうことなのかなって

I wonder if it means that they've returned to their original form.

思ってるんですけど

I'm thinking about it.

本来のフォモサピエス化にもしてくっていうか

It's more about converting it back to its original form of Homo sapiens.

そう

Yeah.

うん

Yeah.

理性ってめっちゃ優しくて

Reason is incredibly kind.

なんか

Something.

体が死なないように

To keep the body alive.

勝手に不安を感じて

Feeling anxious on my own.

感じて

Feel it.

防衛

Defense

うん

Yeah.

なんかこれ怖いなと思って

I thought this is kind of scary.

なるべく挑戦しないとか

"Try not to challenge as much as possible."

発言したら怒られるんじゃないか

Aren't I going to get scolded if I speak up?

勝手に不安を虚構で作り出すんですけど

I end up creating anxiety out of thin air.

でも一回ホモサピエンスを信じたら

But once you believe in Homo sapiens,

実はそんな怒られるみたいな状況でもない

Actually, it's not really a situation where I would get scolded.

っていうか普通に

I mean, normally...

自分の負の部分とかも受け入れて

Accepting your own negative aspects as well.

そのままでいいっていうか

I mean, it's fine just the way it is.

別に敵はいなかったみたいなことを気づくっていうか

It feels like I realized there weren't really any enemies.

そういうことがあると楽だし

It makes things easier when that happens.

僕はそこの世界に行く方がコンビニだと思うんですよね

I think it would be more like a convenience store to go to that world over there.

楽だ

It's easy.

楽

Pleasure

楽だよぉー

It's easy!

楽っていうか便利じゃないかでもなんかすごく精神的に楽っていう

It's not just that it's easy; it's also convenient, but it feels really mentally relieving.

んですかねしんどくないんでなんかそういう状態を作っていきたい

I wonder if it's not exhausting. I want to create such a state.

なそういう作れるを作っていきたいなっていうのは本当に思って

I really want to create something like that.

ますねだから別に期待しなく成長を煽らないしどんどん上目指し

"I don't expect much from growth, so I won't push myself to aim higher."

ましょうとも言わないし上目指したかったら目指したら

I won't say "let's do it," so if you want to aim higher, go ahead and aim for it.

いいしそれはもうそれに合わせて調整できるっていうところがなんか

That's good; it's somehow adjustable to fit that.

いるを認めるってことになるのかな

I guess it means acknowledging that they exist.

それは僕はすごい冒頭もお話ししましたけど

I talked about how amazing it is at the beginning.

しすぎてたりとかしちゃったり悲しくしてたよくしようとしすぎ

I was trying too hard and ended up getting sad.

てよくなかったそういう失敗を繰り返しながら今の境地っていう

It seems that while repeating such failures, I've reached my current state.

かここが一番楽だなあって

"This is the easiest place, isn't it?"

なんかその期待値の調整っていうところではやっぱりこの楽をしたい

In terms of adjusting expectations, I really want to take the easy route.

っていう言い方があってるかわかんないけど心地よさがみんな

I'm not sure if that's the right way to put it, but everyone feels comfortable.

違うと思うんですよねだから本当にのんびりするのがすごく

I think it's different, so really relaxing is very...

好きでひなたぼっこの中でお茶飲んでたいみたいな柔らかい心地

I want to drink tea while basking in the sun, feeling a soft and gentle sensation.

よさが好きな人もいればバリバリやっていくのが心地いい人もいる

There are people who like things to be nice, and there are also people who feel comfortable getting right into it.

わけですよその季節の中ででなんかその別に頑張ってるわけでもなく

It's just that during that season, it's not like I'm really trying hard or anything.

もうそれがもうそうしなきゃなんかそれが楽しいみたいな人たちも

There are also people who think that if they don't do that, it won't be fun.

いるわけで

It exists.

そうそうそう

That's right.

なんかその

Well, you see...

それってやっぱこう人それぞれのリズムがあるからなんかどっち

That's because everyone has their own rhythm, so it's a bit of both.

もどっち

Which way should I go back?

どちらかじゃなくてどちらも

Not either one, but both.

どちらも

Both.

両方とも居場所がある

Both have a place to belong.

うん

Yeah.

共存していい

It's okay to coexist.

うん

Yeah.

なんかそういうのがなんか人類だなあって思う

I feel like that's just how humanity is.

うんうんうん

Uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh.

だからなんか障害があるとか

So, it's like there are some kind of disabilities or something.

うんうんうん

Uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh.

あったとしてもここに居場所があるっていうことを作る作り続ける

Even if it exists, I will continue to create a place to be here.

ことはなんか人類だしそれをそれができるものでもあると思うんですよ

I think it's something that humanity can do, and I believe it is possible for us.

ね

Hey!

うん

Yeah.

それはだからそれがちょっとわかってると自殺しても減るんじゃない

That's why if you understand it a little, it might decrease the chances of suicide.

かな

Kana

うんうんうんうんうんうんうん

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

でもそういう本当に想像できるものをもっともっと楽になる考え方

But it's a way of thinking that makes things much easier to imagine.

うんうんうんうんうんうん

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

とこ広めていった方が

"It would be better to spread it widely."

うん

Yeah.

世の中にとっていいんじゃないかなって

I think it's good for the world.

うん

Yeah.

ふうに思ってて

"I think so."

うんうんうんうん

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

そういうバトンを持って走りたいっていう感じ

I want to run while holding a baton like that.

うんうんうんうんうん

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

うん

Yeah.

いや本当に僕なんかいい話してますよね

Well, I'm really talking about something good, aren't I?

笑

Laugh.

はい

Yes

気持ちよくなって

Feel good.

聞いている人は手を止めてますからね

The listeners have stopped their hands, you know.

多分誰か

Maybe someone.

リスナーさん今手を止めてますよ

The listeners are stopping their hands right now.

今騙されたって思ってると思う

I think you believe you’ve been deceived.

騙されたってなってますよ

It says you were deceived.

でも騙されたいってなってるかもしれないですよ

But I might want to be deceived.

確かに

Certainly.

騙されることが心地よくなってるかもしれない

You might be getting comfortable with being deceived.

詐欺師なので

Because I am a scammer.

そろそろ終盤に向かっていきますか

Shall we head towards the final stages soon?

そうですね

That's right.

2つ質問をさせていただいていて

I have two questions to ask.

1つはこれまでの過去回を聞いていただいてましたら

If you have been listening to the past episodes up to now,

少し感想をリスナーさんとして

As a listener, I would like to share a few thoughts.

ちょっと教えていただけますか

Could you please tell me a little?

教えていただきたいなっていうところがあるんですが

I have something I'd like to ask you about.

まず1つ目ですね

First, the first one.

まめなもっくんの

Diligent Mokkunn's

まめなの回の若いの子が出てた

The young kid from the Mame no Kai episode appeared.

島大国

Island nation

のありがとう経済の話を聞きながら

While listening to the story of the gratitude economy.

いやすごい難しいこと考えるなみたいな若いのに

Wow, it's impressive that you're thinking about such difficult things at a young age.

めっちゃいいなっていうふうに思って

I think it's really great.

なんか

Somehow

なんだろうな

I wonder what it is.

だからやっぱこうあれですよね

So, I guess it really is like that, isn't it?

さっきのピリハリの感想にもなるんですけど

It also relates to my earlier impression of the spicy and tangy flavor.

揺さぶりかけてるし

I'm shaking it up.

さっきのバランスが行き過ぎてる時に

When the balance from earlier was excessive.

うちもありなんじゃないみたいなことを

It seems like it might be good for us too.

してる子がいたり

There are kids who are doing it.

そういうのがあって

That kind of thing exists.

そうやってすごい小さなことだったりすると思うんですよね

I think it's often something really small like that.

くじなんとかの島で

On the island of Kujin something.

くびくび

Neck neck

で取り上げていく

I will address it.

小さな声を拾っていく

Picking up small voices.

こういう選択肢もあるよってなっていく

There are also options like this.

なんかピリハリの

Somehow it feels prickly.

選択肢を増やしていく

Increasing the options.

人類のビジョンに

To the vision of humanity

ひも付いてるんじゃないかなと思ってて

I thought it might be tied to something.

なんか対局にあるものを

Something that is in opposition.

捉えていく

Capture it.

後半聞いてないですけど

I wasn't listening to the second half, though.

一方でワンメイドのあの子

On the other hand, that girl from One Maid.

バリバリの六本木で働いてほしいなと思ったんですよ

I thought it would be nice to work in the vibrant Roppongi.

どうなるんだろう

I wonder what will happen.

大悟くんの最新情報は

What is the latest information about Daigo?

一旦ちょっと振り切りたいと思ったんですけど

I thought I wanted to shake it off for a moment.

思ったらしくて

It seems they thought so.

去年の夏は

Last summer was

東京の

Of Tokyo

なんだっけ

What was it again?

あの

Um...

お釜バーに

At the gay bar.

バイトしてたって言ってました

They said they were working part-time.

なんだっけなんとか町

What was it? Something town.

新宿2丁目

Shinjuku 2-chome

そうそう

That's right.

世界を見てきて

I've seen the world.

また島に戻ってきたって言ってました

They said they have returned to the island again.

おろいっすね

That's cool.

曲に振りすぎると綺麗なんだけど闇が見えなかったりとか

If you get too caught up in the song, it becomes beautiful, but you might not see the darkness.

闇の方法を知ってどうバランスを調整し続けるかみたいなこと

How to continue adjusting the balance after knowing the ways of darkness.

一方ですごく大事なことだなと思って

On the other hand, I think it's something really important.

どう調整していくかみたいな

How to make adjustments, I suppose.

葛藤がやっぱりおもろいんで

Conflict is still interesting, after all.

そういうのをやってたらさらに面白いな

That would be even more interesting if we did something like that.

いうのは思いましたね

I thought so.

だからここにゴールドマンサックスの人とか

So here we have people from Goldman Sachs and such.

カネッションみたいな

Like Kanishon.

世の中

The world.

笑

Laugh.

一つ来ても白いと思うんですよね

I think it will be white even if one comes.

いやーそうなんですかねとか言って

Well, I wonder if that's really true.

ずっと説教されるみたいな私たちが

It feels like we're constantly being preached at.

ふたが手止まるっていう

The lid stops moving.

逆にね

On the contrary.

多分切り端も回を重ねると

Maybe the edges will improve as time goes on.

多分ふたが自分の傾向に

Maybe the lid is inclined to itself.

ふたが自分の傾向に

The lid fits my tendency.

振ってるんだと思うんですね

I think they are shaking it.

でもそしたら

But then...

思うんだけど

I was thinking that...

調和になっていくっていうか

It's like becoming harmonious.

なるほど

I see.

ピリハジ自体に揺さぶりをかけていくっていう

It's about shaking up the pillars themselves.

ピリハジ

Pirihaji

よりこう