022-現役カリスマ予備校講師が考える自分の道の見つけ方と教育の未来＜後編＞-ゲスト：鳥光宏さん

みなさんこんにちは 半歩先トークナビゲーターの山本達也です

Hello everyone, I am Tatsuya Yamamoto, your half-step ahead talk navigator.

半歩先トークはリビングイズネイチャーな社会の実現に向けて

Half-step forward talk towards the realization of a society where living is nature.

時代の半歩先を歩き始めるためのヒントを提供してくれる方々を

Those who provide hints for taking a half step ahead of the times.

ゲストにお迎えしお話を伺っていくポッドキャスト番組です

This is a podcast program where we welcome guests and have discussions with them.

本日のゲストは前半に引き続いて

Today's guest continues from the first half.

寸大予備校のカリスマ古文講師でいらっしゃる鳥光博士さんです

This is Dr. Torihikari, the charismatic classical literature instructor at Sundai Prep School.

鳥光さん後半もよろしくお願いいたします

Thank you, Torimitsu-san, for your continued support in the second half as well.

よろしくお願いします

Thank you in advance.

前半では鳥光さんに本当に神の上でいろんなユニークな経歴と

In the first half, Mr. Torimitsu has truly had a unique career above all others.

その経歴にある背後の背景みたいなものについて

About the background or context behind that career.

伺ってきたんですけれども

I have been informed.

後半ではもう少し教育

In the second half, a bit more education.

の話とか

About that story.

まさに予備校で大学受験にずっと向き合っていらっしゃって

You have been constantly facing the university entrance exam at the prep school.

いってこともありますし

It might be said that.

それからどうしてもキーワードに

After that, it has to be a keyword.

人生どう生きるんだみたいなのっていうのは

It's like wondering how to live life.

すごく入ってくるなと思ったので

I thought it was really coming in strong.

その辺のお話もちょっと伺っていきたいなという風に

I would like to hear a little about that as well.

思っています

I am thinking.

紹介でも寸大予備校の古文の先生ですっていう風に

"I'm a classical literature teacher at Sundai Preparatory School, as mentioned in my introduction."

紹介させていただいて

I would like to introduce you.

させていただいているわけですけど

I am allowed to do so.

いくつもあるお仕事の中でもしかしたら本業という部分が

Among the many jobs, perhaps this part is the main job.

ここの教育者としての顔というかですね

It's like the face of an educator here.

その才能なんじゃないかなという風に思うんですけども

I think it's that talent, you know.

話題を教育にちょっと戻してみると

If we try to bring the topic back to education a bit

今でも現役のもちろん予備校の講師でいらっしゃるわけですけど

You are still an active prep school instructor, of course.

30年ということで

Since it's been 30 years.

30万人くらい述べるというか

About 300,000 people are estimated to say.

全部合わせ30万人くらいの生徒を指導されてきた

I have taught around 300,000 students in total.

ということなんですけど

That's what it means, but...

やっぱり大学受験一言で言っても

After all, even if I say "university entrance exams" in one word...

やっぱりこの30年で随分変わったんじゃないかなという風にも思うんですけど

I think a lot has changed in these 30 years.

この30年振り返っていろんな生徒さんも見ていて

Looking back over the past 30 years, I've seen many students.

そして大学の入試環境も随分変わってきたと思うんですけど

I think the university entrance examination environment has changed quite a bit.

今どんな変化をやっぱり今一番お感じになってますか

What changes are you currently feeling the most?

教育改革

Educational reform

教育改革って言うんですが

It's called educational reform, but...

逆にこうして30年見てきていると

On the contrary, having observed this for 30 years...

悪になっているとしか思えません

I can only think of it as being evil.

例えば昔々共通一時テストというのがありました

For example, there was a common temporary test a long time ago.

あの共通一時テストが

That common temporary test...

いろんな方面から

From various directions.

マークシートに書くだけであるとかって言ってましたけど

I heard that it's just a matter of writing on the mark sheet.

でもですね

Well, you see...

全体試験になって私も問題作る側として言ってしまうと

When it comes to the overall exam, I have to say as someone who creates the questions...

思考力を試す試験になってない

It's not an exam that tests thinking skills.

いやいやいや

No, no, no.

このセンター試験

This center exam

これだけの100%とは言いませんが

I won't say it's 100% this much, but...

これだけの狙えた問題を作ることは非常に大変です

Creating a problem that can be targeted to this extent is very difficult.

一応5分だけに関して言いますと

Just to mention it briefly, regarding the 5 minutes...

非常に繊細によく考えて作られてると

It is very delicately and thoughtfully made.

思ってました

I was thinking.

ところが今度共通テストという

However, this time it's the common test.

昔と共通一時の一時を取るだけで

Just by taking a moment of common time as in the past.

なんか名前変更して

Change the name somehow.

なんだか思考力を試すと言いながら

It seems like they're saying it's a test of thinking ability.

めちゃくちゃな問題を作り始めてます

I'm starting to create really crazy problems.

で正直なことを言って

To be honest,

基本事項を勉強したらできるんだと

I can do it once I study the basics.

生徒に言ってきていながら

While saying it to the students

基本事項を勉強したらできるんだと

I can do it once I study the basics.

基本事項だけ勉強してもできないです

You can't do it just by studying the basics.

一生懸命やってきたのに

Even though I've been doing my best.

それを裏切られてしまっている試験だと

It is a test that has been betrayed.

私は今思っています

I am thinking now.

それは内容的にいくつかありません

There are several things lacking in terms of content.

また必要によってお話しますが

I will talk again if necessary.

日本の教育がどんどん曲がってきてしまってるなとしか思いません

I can only think that Japan's education is becoming increasingly distorted.

なるほど

I see.

このなんか共通テストの話に関して

Regarding this common test talk.

国語も

National language as well.

そうですけど

That's right, but...

それ以外のところでもいろいろ批判もあり

There have also been various criticisms elsewhere.

英語の内容なんかも随分とテスト変わって

The content of the English tests has changed quite a bit.

っていうようなこともあるわけですよね

There are times like that, right?

1月にやるペーパーで点数を見ていくっていうテスト

A test where we will check the scores of the paper to be done in January.

もちろんそうですし

Of course, that's true.

最近の大学の流れみたいなのを見てみると

Looking at the recent trends in universities...

そもそも入試全体が

The entrance exam as a whole is...

全体の中でのペーパー型の試験の割合をちょっと減らしていこうみたいな話とかっていうのもあると思うんですけど

I think there's also talk about reducing the proportion of paper-based exams within the overall framework a bit.

こういう種類の話で

In this kind of story

やっぱりペーパーの試験の重要性があるんだっておっしゃるような方もいれば

Some people say that the importance of paper exams really does exist.

全体としてそれ以外のテストも入れていくっていうことに関して

Regarding the inclusion of other tests as a whole.

結構好意的に捉えてらっしゃる方もいらっしゃって

There are some people who are quite positively interpreting it.

そのあたり

Around there.

っていうのは

That means...

鳥海先生どんな感じの感想をお持ちになるんですか

What kind of impressions do you have, Professor Toriumi?

やはりですね

As I thought.

例えば僕はこういう文ですけども

For example, this is the kind of sentence I have.

努力点

Effort point

例えば漢字をちゃんと覚えました

For example, I properly memorized the kanji.

全然やらない子に対して

To a child who doesn't do anything at all.

これを頑張ってやろうっていう志のある子には

For those children who have the determination to do their best at this.

努力点を与えていいと思ってるんですね

I think it's okay to give points for effort.

古文に関しても

Regarding classical Japanese literature.

古文の重要な単語

Important words in classical Japanese.

ただしどうして重要なのかを

However, please explain why it is important.

分かった上できちんと覚える

I will remember it properly after understanding it.

覚えてきちんと使える

Remember and use it properly.

そこまで頑張ったよっていう子たちには

To those kids who have worked hard up to that point.

努力点を与えていいと思ってるんですよ

I think it's good to give effort points.

たまたま当たっちゃったとかじゃなくて

It's not just that I happened to hit the mark.

そういう努力をした子たちには

For those children who made such efforts.

ちゃんと努力点をベースに与えてあげる

I will properly give you points based on your efforts.

ただし努力だけではやっぱり大学で勉強できませんから

However, just努力 alone is not enough to study at university.

そこに今度が増やされるまで

Until the next time it increases there.

思考力を試せばいいというところがあります

There are places where you can test your thinking skills.

そういう意味では

In that sense.

その逆に言うと

In other words, that means the opposite.

面接だけで取っちゃうっていうのは

To just get it through the interview...

面接だけで上手い子もいたりするかもしれません

There might be kids who are good just in interviews.

だから

So.

ペーパーテストというものが

What is known as a paper test

全く悪ではないと思います

I don't think it's bad at all.

努力をした部分をきちんと見てもらって

I want to be properly recognized for the efforts I put in.

それは点数も客観的に見てもらって

That should be evaluated objectively as well.

頑張ったのに

Even though I tried my best.

なんか人との話がうまくできないから

I can't seem to communicate well with people.

落ちたっていうのはかわいそうですから

It's sad to say that you fell.

頑張った分だけは努力点として

"Your efforts will be rewarded as points for your hard work."

ペーパーで見てあげるっていうことは

It means that you will look at it on paper.

私は必要だと思ってます

I think I am necessary.

はい

Yes

なるほど

I see.

あの

Um...

今のもう

It's now.

あの

Um...

大学の

University's

いわゆる

so-called

入試改革の流れみたいなのを見ていくと

Looking at the trend of entrance exam reforms

例えば外部

For example, outside.

英語だったら外部テストみたいなのを入れて

If it's in English, could you include something like an external test?

っていうところで

In that regard.

よく出てくる話に

A story that often comes up.

英語入試なんかもそうかもしれないですけども

It might be the same with English entrance exams as well.

親の所得によって

Depending on the parent's income

ずいぶんいろんなことが変わってきちゃうんじゃないか

A lot of things might have changed, haven't they?

つまりたくさん経験させてあげられるとか

In other words, it means being able to give them a lot of experiences.

たくさん高額な試験でも

Even if there are many expensive exams.

受けることができる

Can receive.

回数それだけ受けることができるとかっていう

It means that you can receive that many times.

あの人の方が有利なんじゃないか

Isn't that person at an advantage?

だからむしろその

So rather that...

なんて言うんですか

What do you call it?

その親の収入格差みたいなものっていうのが

It's like the income disparity of those parents.

あの結局できちゃうんじゃないかっていう種類の批判っていうのも

It's the kind of criticism that makes you think, "In the end, isn't it all going to work out?"

効くんですよね

It works, doesn't it?

その点あの前半でもお話あったんですけども

As I mentioned in the first half, regarding that point...

鳥海先生自身

Teacher Toriumi himself

その勉強された時っていうのはすごくその

When you studied that, it was really...

お金のこととかっていうのを考えながら

While thinking about money matters.

あの新聞の配達なんかもされながらっていう

While doing things like delivering that newspaper.

いわゆるその日本語的には苦学生っていうような

It's what you might call a struggling student in Japanese.

まあ

Well...

だからそういうご経験もある

So you have had that kind of experience as well.

そしてその大学受験の業界をずっと

And the industry of university entrance examinations has been...

最前線で見てらっしゃったってこともあって

Since you were watching from the front lines.

そのあたりってどういう風にお考えですか

What are your thoughts on that?

その辺の格差の問題っていうことですか

Is it about the issue of disparity around that area?

私ねよくNHKかなんかで

I often watch NHK or something like that.

赤い鐘簿記っていうのやってますね

I see you are doing something called "Red Bell Records."

今のね

Right now.

であと年末助け合い運動ってやってますよね

And you're doing the year-end mutual aid campaign, right?

実は

Actually

私の家本当に

My house really.

あの父親がお腹になくなっちゃって

That father has passed away in the stomach.

母親が入院しちゃって

My mother has been hospitalized.

電気が水道が止められちゃってっていう

The electricity and water supply have been cut off.

本当にあの貧しかったっていうのも

It's really true that we were poor.

どうこしても懐かしちゃったんです

I couldn't help but feel nostalgic.

で本当に

Really?

米がなかなくなっちゃった

The rice has run out.

祖母が来て真っ暗闇で電気もつかない中で

My grandmother came and we were in complete darkness with no lights on.

祖母が来てああかわいそうかわいちゃって

My grandmother came and said how cute it is.

で何回作ってくれたっていう思い出があります

I have memories of how many times you've made it for me.

妹弟とかBBの相手っていうのがあります

There are things like younger siblings or partners in BB.

でもそこから

But from there

なんとかこれを自分の手で

Somehow, I'll do this with my own hands.

人生作らなきゃと思ってやってきて

I've been thinking I need to create a life for myself.

まあこれってよく人は

Well, this is something that people often...

先生だからできたんですよ

It's because I'm a teacher that I could do it.

あなたからできたんですよって言うかもしれませんが

You might say that it was possible because of you, but...

いや別に僕はもともとそういう能力があったわけではないわけですよ

No, I didn't originally have that kind of ability.

親がそういう能力があったわけでもないです

It's not like my parents had that kind of ability.

でも自分の人生を捕まえようって思い出があったら

But if you have memories of wanting to take hold of your own life.

でも自分の人生を捕まえようって思い出があったわけではないわけですよ

But it wasn't that I had memories of trying to capture my own life.

その意識を持ってやっていく中で

While carrying that consciousness forward.

魔法のようにしていろんなことが現れてくれました

Various things appeared as if by magic.

でも正直言ってその分僕は努力はしていたと思うんです自分自身

But to be honest, I think I've been putting in the effort myself.

で確かにその年収拡散の中で先生がおっしゃってるように

Indeed, as you mentioned in the discussion about income distribution.

それで勉強ができるできたりもあるだろうな

So it's possible that you can study like that.

私ももっと家が有機だったら

If only my house were more organic.

もうちょっと違うこともしたかもしれないけども

I might have wanted to do something a little different, but...

逆に夫の保温として

Conversely, as insulation for my husband.

今のような向上心はなかったかもしれません

I may not have had the same ambition as I do now.

そう考えると今の世の中って

Considering that, the world today...

格差があって可哀想だとか

"It's sad that there is inequality."

なんとかしてあげなきゃっていう風に言ってますが

I'm saying that I have to do something about it somehow.

なんか冷たいわけじゃなくて

It's not like it's cold or anything.

私自身がその中でやってきて今があるので

I have come this far through my own efforts.

本当にやろうと思ったらできんじゃないのかな

If you really think about doing it, can't you?

逆に言うと

Conversely,

本当にやろうと思ったらできんじゃないのかな

If you really think about doing it, can't you?

本当はできるはずなのに

It should really be possible.

可哀想可哀想って言って

Saying "how pitiful, how pitiful."

本当は自分でできるはずの子を逆に目を尽くしてしまってる大人たちが

Adults who should be able to do things on their own end up excessively watching over the children instead.

そこにないだろうか

Is it not there?

なんか今いろんな東南アジアに向けて思います

I’m thinking a lot about various Southeast Asian countries right now.

本当に貧しいって何か

What does it really mean to be poor?

本当に一粒の米もないんです

There isn't even a grain of rice.

勉強したいって思ったって何もないんです

Even if I want to study, there's nothing I can do.

でも日本で格差とか貧しくて勉強ができないんだっていう中で

"But in Japan, there is inequality, and there are those who cannot study because they are poor."

本当に貧しいのかな

I wonder if they are really poor.

私自身の経験も含め

Including my own experience.

東南アジアやいろんな所で見てきたことを含め

Including what I have seen in Southeast Asia and various places.

日本で言ってること日本でそういうこと言ってることに対して

About what people say in Japan regarding such things.

私はなんか実感がないんですね

I don't really feel anything, you know.

多分日本は豊かなんですよ

Maybe Japan is prosperous.

何らかんねんって

What do you mean by "whatever"?

そして大人たちもいや可哀想だって

And the adults also said, "How unfortunate."

格差があってお金があればもっと勉強ができるはずだ

If there is a gap and you have money, you should be able to study more.

いやいやお金がない中でどう勉強しようかって

Well, how can I study when I don't have any money?

絶対に自分の身作るぞっていう風に考えて

"I'm definitely thinking about taking care of myself."

ハングリーに生きる子の方がきっと将来豊かになると思います

I believe that children who live with hunger will surely be richer in the future.

私はそう思っちゃう

I can't help but think so.

これが正しいとは絶対に言いません

I definitely won't say that this is correct.

でも私はそう思ってしまいます

But that's what I think.

でも実際子供たちにとって実はお金っていうより

But in reality, for children, it's not really about money.

やっぱりどういう親以外の大人に会ってきたのかなみたいなことって

I guess it makes me wonder what kind of adults, aside from parents, they've met.

多分すごく重要だと思うんですよね

I think it’s probably very important.

その意味ではいろんなタイプの先生とか

In that sense, various types of teachers, etc.

先生という職業じゃなくても師と呼べるような人とかって多分いると思うんですよね

I think there are probably many people who can be called a "master" even if they are not in the profession of a teacher.

例えば予備校業界っていうのは

For example, the preparatory school industry is...

先生たくさんいらっしゃると思いますし

I think there are a lot of teachers here.

30年の間で結構やっぱり競争の激しい社会なんだと思うんですよ

I think it's a fairly competitive society over the past 30 years.

先生同士なんかも

Even among teachers.

そうするとある意味30年間サバイブし

In that sense, I've survived for 30 years.

さらにそこでやっぱりカリスマ講師って言われるような

Furthermore, it's where they say you become a charismatic instructor.

という風になる人と

People who become like that.

先生として何が違うんでしょう

What is different about being a teacher?

やっぱりそういう風に

As I thought, in that way.

やっぱり何て言うんですか

What do you say after all?

その単純にこの先生らが

Simply put, these teachers...

ちょっと点数が取れるとか

"Like being able to score a few points."

そういうことだけじゃないような気がするんですよね

I feel like it's not just about that.

その生徒がよしやろうかっていうような

That student seems like they might do it.

今ちょっとお話になってるのはそのハングリーさとか

What we're talking about right now is that hunger or something like that.

自分の人生やっぱりつかみに行くために

To grasp my own life, after all.

ここはやっぱりがむしゃらにやるんだみたいな

Here, it's really about doing it with all your might.

なんかそういう種類のスイッチを押してくれるような

It's like something that can push that kind of switch for you.

先生っていうのも含めて

Including the fact that you're a teacher.

なんか先生な気がするんですけど

I feel like I'm somehow a teacher.

なんかご自身当事者だからなかなかわかんないかもしれないですけど

You might not really understand since you're directly involved.

なんかちょっと引いたところで見たら

When I looked from a bit of a distance...

やっぱりこの先生やっぱりいいよなって思う先生って

I think, after all, this teacher really is great.

特徴あったりとかってするんですか

Are there any features or characteristics?

逆になんかいなくなっちゃう先生とか

On the contrary, there are teachers who seem to disappear.

やっぱりなんかいなくなっちゃう

I knew it, they seem to disappear.

特徴があるのかとか

If there are any particular features.

そうなんですよ

That's right.

講師っていなくなっちゃうんですよ

Instructors will disappear, you know.

あれいなくなっちゃったみたいなね

It seems like that person has disappeared.

変なこと言うと

If I say something strange,

確かにそうですよね

That's certainly true.

そこにはやっぱりオーラみたいなのがあるんでしょうね

There is probably something like an aura there, isn't there?

この人がいたら安心できる

I feel安心 (safe) with this person around.

この人が言ったらなるほどなって思える

When this person says it, I can understand why.

そういう安心感が

That sense of security

欲望の場合にやっぱり合格するというところが目標なので

In the case of desires, the goal is definitely to pass.

この人の言ったことで

What this person said

なるほどなっていうところを

I see what you mean.

きちんと生徒たちが受け止めてくれる

The students will properly accept it.

この人になると困るんだっていうような

It's like saying, "If it becomes this person, then it will be troubling."

そういうものを持ってる人と

With people who have such things

またとりあえず淡々と教えてくれる人がいるので

For now, there’s someone who calmly teaches me.

教えてある意味仕事だって

"Teach me what work really means."

割り切ってる人とそこら辺が

People who have made up their minds about that sort of thing.

違ってしまうところなんですかね

Is it where things go wrong, I wonder?

なんか自分では分からないけど

I don't really understand it myself, but...

でもやっぱり鳥海先生見てると

But after all, when I look at Teacher Toriumi...

なんていうか

How should I put it?

予備校って存在って

What is the existence of prep schools?

大学に入るための

In order to enter university

そのある種通過点だったり

It was a kind of turning point.

手段だって捉えられがち

It is often perceived as just a means.

っていうか

Well, I mean...

世の中の周りから見てると

Looking at the world from the outside.

そういう意味ではすごく目的がはっきりしてる場所で

In that sense, it's a place with a very clear purpose.

その目的がクリアされたら

Once that goal is achieved.

もう用がないというか

I no longer have any need for it.

例えばなんていうんですかね

For example, what would you say?

自動車教習所みたいなところで免許取るみたいな

It’s like getting a license at a driving school.

自動車教習所に対してすごい自動車教習所愛があって

I have a great love for the driving school.

自動車教習所に対する母校愛みたいなものって

It's like a love for my alma mater towards the driving school.

なかなか芽生えにくいような

It seems to be quite difficult to take root.

例外もあると思うんですけど

I think there are exceptions, though.

ただ鳥海先生見てると

Just looking at Professor Toriumi,

大学に入った子たちが

The students who entered university

また周りにたくさん来てるっていうのが

There are also a lot of people around.

なかなかやっぱり

It's quite something after all.

予備校の先生としては

As a prep school teacher,

すごく幸せなことなんじゃないかなと

I think it’s something really happy.

とってもありがたいですね

That's very appreciated, isn't it?

それは多分単純に

That is probably simply

点数取るためのテクニックみたいな話とは全然

It's completely unrelated to the talk about techniques for scoring points.

違うなんかを多分生徒が感じてる

The students are probably feeling something different.

証拠なのかななんていうのを思いながら

I wonder if this is evidence.

先生の周りに集まってくる人を見ながら

Watching the people gathering around the teacher.

そんなことも思ったんですよね

I thought about things like that too, you know.

先生ホームページ拝見すると

I saw your homepage,先生.

いろんな肩書きの中に

Among various titles.

夢プロデューサーっていう肩書きもあって

I also have the title of dream producer.

夢を実現させていくって

Making dreams come true.

前半のさっきご自身のキャリアのお話でも

In the first half, you just shared about your own career.

あったと思うんですけど

I think it was there.

人の意味も含めてそれなんか実現させるってことに

Including the meaning of people, it's about realizing that.

熱心に取り組まれてるんですけど

You are working hard on it, aren't you?

その辺の原点はやっぱり自分の

The origin of that is definitely myself.

生い立ちみたいなところがあったってことですか

Does that mean there was something like a background or upbringing?

そうですね

That's right.

やっぱり何度も申し上げてますけども

As I've said multiple times,

怖かった

I was scared.

自分の人生がこのまんま押し潰されたままでいいのが怖かった

I was scared that it would be okay for my life to just be crushed like this.

自分の人生をちゃんと作っていきたい

I want to properly create my own life.

でもまだ大人になる前は

But before becoming an adult

そんなことできるんだろうかって思いますよね

I wonder if that's really possible.

そういう意味で怖かった

It was scary in that sense.

きっと東南アジアだけじゃなくて

Surely not just Southeast Asia.

日本も確かにさっきおっしゃっていたように

Indeed, Japan, as you mentioned earlier,

家が貧しくてこうだあだっていうのを

"My family is poor and that's how it is."

確かにそういう子もいるんだと思います

I think there are indeed kids like that.

だからそういう子たちにとっては

So for those kids,

やっぱり僕と同じように

Just like me, after all.

人生どうなんだろう

I wonder how life is going.

怖い

Scary.

夢がない

I have no dreams.

怖いって結局夢がないんですよね

Being scared ultimately means there's no dream, right?

夢がない

I have no dreams.

夢が実現できないのではないかですかね

Isn't it that dreams might not be realized?

夢がないんじゃないですね

It's not that I don't have a dream.

これはしたいけども

I want to do this, but...

それは結びつかないんじゃないかっていうことですよ

That’s something that might not be connected, you see.

そういうことが

That's how it is.

そういうことがやっぱりあるのかなって思うんですよね

I think things like that really do happen.

そういうふうにして見ていかれる中で

While looking at it that way

ご自身という誰か他の関わった人で

Involving someone else who is you.

この夢を実現していく過程とか

The process of realizing this dream.

多分なんか一直線で夢にたどり着くっていうか

Maybe it's like reaching a dream in a straight line.

多分いろんな挫折とか

Maybe various setbacks and such.

そうですね

That's right.

あるんだと思うんですけど

I think there is.

なんか印象に残ってるようなエピソードとかってありますか?

Do you have any episodes that left a lasting impression on you?

そうですね

That's right.

なんかいろんな学生もいて

There are various kinds of students.

私すごいなって思ったのは

What I thought was amazing is...

東大大学に行った学生がいて

There was a student who went to the University of Tokyo.

宇宙に関わりたいんだっていうことを言ってて

I want to be involved with space.

実際に実現していきながら

While actually bringing it to fruition.

なんか

Somehow

あの

Um...

NASAでしたっけ日本の場合

Was it NASA in Japan?

あのああいう

That kind of thing.

日本から育ってNASAとの

Growing from Japan and with NASA.

つながりをこう作っていって

Let's create connections like this.

なんかアメリカに短期だっかなんだかで留学するとかっていうことが決まって

It was decided that I would study abroad in America for a short term or something like that.

両国をくれたりとかして

Like giving both countries.

そういうその自分自身がこれをしようと思いながらも

Even though I think to myself that I want to do this...

なんかそれがうまくいかなかったけど今度こっちでしました

It didn't go well that time, but I did it here this time.

でもこのことしました

But I did this.

でも最終的に自分がやろうと思っていた方向に

But in the end, it was going in the direction I had intended.

今いけそうですっていうようなことを

It seems like I can go now.

言ってきてくれたり

"Could you let me know?"

なんか

Somehow

僕が見ていた子たちの中で

Among the kids I was watching

自分自身の

Myself

私が関わってきた学生たちってすごく賢いし

The students I have worked with are really smart.

なんか人生も

Something about life too.

よくいろんなことを練り上げてきている子たち多いんですが

There are many kids who have been refining various things quite well.

それを実現していってるっていう子たちをたくさん見てきてますよね

I've seen many kids who are making that a reality.

だからそういう意味では面白いなっていうことは

So in that sense, it's interesting.

実感してますね

I can feel it.

なんかやっぱりこう夢をしっかり

Somehow, I really want to firmly pursue my dreams.

しっかり自分のものにしていくとか

Making it truly your own.

なんかしっかり自分の人生を歩んでいくタイプって

It seems like a type of person who walks through life confidently.

何らかの共通点ってあるんですか

Is there some kind of commonality?

その子たち見てて

Just watch those kids.

あーなんかこういう共通点あるなみたいなの

Ah, it feels like we have some commonalities like this.

それとも全然その人によってバラバラな感じなんですか

Or does it feel completely different depending on the person?

うーん

Hmm.

共通点

Common points.

共通点といったら

Speaking of common points...

諦めないかもしれない

I might not give up.

うーん

Hmm.

諦めないかもしれないね

I might not give up.

諦めない

Don't give up.

うん

Yeah.

何かやってうまくいかないダメだったおしまいではなくて

It's not the end just because something didn't go well.

何かやってうまくいかない

Something I did didn't go well.

じゃあ違う方法はないだろうか

Well, isn't there another way?

違う道見えながらそっち歩いていってこっち歩いていったけど

I saw a different path and walked that way, but then I walked this way.

でもここが目標なんだけどこっちに行ってるように見えて

But this is the goal, yet it seems like we're heading in this direction.

最終的にここに行き着くみたいな

It seems like I'm ultimately going to end up here.

そういうことをやっぱ自分で考えてやっていってますよね

I think you're doing things like that by thinking for yourself and taking action, right?

なるほど

I see.

なんかトリュフ先生のことをね

I have a feeling about Professor Truffle.

なんかトリュフ先生のお話を伺っててもそうなんですけど

It seems that even when listening to Professor Truffe's stories.

その時その時に出会って出てくる状況を

The situations that arise and encounters at that moment.

なんかうまく受け入れてるっていうか

It's like I'm somehow accepting it well.

その状況も含めて自分のものにしていくみたいなイメージってあるんですけど

I have an image of wanting to make that situation a part of myself, including everything about it.

こうだって決め込んで比較的狭くそこの焦点をぐっと合わせて

Deciding on this and narrowing the focus down tightly.

そこに行くっていうタイプもありそうなんですけど

It seems like there might also be a type that goes there.

向かってる途中に来るある種の寄り道に見えるようなところも含めて

Including places that seem like a kind of detour on the way there.

自分のものにしてしまうみたいな

It’s like making it your own.

なんかそんな感覚もあって

I feel like there's something like that too.

僕なんかやっぱり寄り道好きなので

I guess I really do like taking detours.

一点に向かってズバーって最短距離行くっていうことが

Going straight towards a point in the shortest possible distance.

やっぱりなんかできなくて

I just can't do it after all.

でも最終的にあっそっかここはこういう回り道で

But in the end, oh I see, this is a detour like this.

ここに来たかみたいに思うこともあるんですけど

Sometimes I think it feels like I've come here.

あんまりこう逆らわないようにしてるみたいなところもあるんですよ

It seems like there are times when I try not to go against things too much.

だからなんかすごくヒントを頂いてて

So I’ve been receiving a lot of great hints.

そういうところあるのかなっていう

I wonder if there are places like that.

そうですよね

That's right.

だから先生おっしゃるように私もだから

So, as you said, teacher, I also...

こう行って医学のほうかと思ったら教育に行って

I thought it would lead to medicine, but it went towards education instead.

文学に行って

Go to literature.

私もだからこうしてるけども

That's why I'm doing this too.

特に逆らうことはなく

Especially without opposing.

これはしたかったことだし見たかったものである

This is something I wanted to do and see.

ある意味よくセレンディピティって言いますよね

In a way, people often talk about serendipity, don't they?

なんか旅に出てみて出会ったところからまたヒントがあって

It seems that there are hints that come from the places I encountered while traveling.

あ!

Ah!

これはこう繋がってるんだな

So this is how it connects.

じゃあここから行くとこうなるなっていうものが

Well, if we go from here, this is how it will turn out.

偶然の発見の中で

In the midst of a chance discovery.

実は偶然って思えていることが必然であったっていうようなことが今も起きて

In fact, it still happens that what seems like coincidence is actually inevitable.

先生さっき文学の話をして頂いたんですけども

Earlier, the teacher talked about literature.

今年は宮古島文学賞で入選しました

This year I won the Miyako Island Literary Award.

すごいじゃないですかなんか

Isn't it amazing, like?

はい

Yes

それも宮古島大好きなのと沖縄の文学

I also love Miyakojima and Okinawan literature.

まあ福島文学賞のほかに今度は沖縄というところに僕は

Well, apart from the Fukushima Literature Prize, I'm now in a place called Okinawa.

足を残したかったので足跡残したかったので

I wanted to leave footprints because I wanted to leave my legs behind.

沖縄の文学賞が欲しいと思っていて

I want to win a literary prize in Okinawa.

沖縄文学賞みたいなのあるんですけどさ

There's something like the Okinawa Literary Award, you know?

沖縄の人だけしか出てなかったんですが

Only people from Okinawa were there.

宮古島文学賞は全国区なので

The Miyako Island Literary Award is a nationwide award.

全国から出してるいいことなんで

It's something good that is being brought out from all over the country.

出して去年出して今年

Released last year, released this year.

受賞いたしました

I have received an award.

素晴らしいですねおめでとうございます

That's wonderful, congratulations!

いやいやいや

No, no, no.

いやなんかあのまだまだね

Well, somehow it's still...

鳥海先生これから新しいこともどんどんやられるんだと思うんですけど

I think Professor Toriumi will be doing more and more new things from now on.

なんかある意味自分のその琉球大学の話も含めて

In a way, it includes my story about Ryukyu University as well.

人生をちゃんと回収しに行ってっていうか自分の

It's like saying to properly go and reclaim your life, or rather your own.

そうですね回収しに行って

Yes, let's go collect it.

宮古島な沖縄ってやっぱりなんていうかこう相当な思い入れの

Miyako Island in Okinawa really has an extraordinary emotional connection, or rather, it's hard to put into words.

ある場所でそこにもう一回最後今度は医学でっていうか文学で

In a certain place, there once again at the end, this time with medicine, or rather with literature.

そこにお返ししに行くっていうか

It's more like I'm going back there to return the favor.

なんかそういう感じで

It feels kind of like that.

いやこのままなんかこう回収して

No, let's just collect it like this.

あの終わっちゃうっていうか

It’s like, it’s going to end.

あのなんかどんと多分取り組まれるんだと思うんですけど

Well, I think they will probably tackle it head-on.

どうですかこの先何かやっぱりやってみたいこと

How do you feel about wanting to try something in the future?

展開していきたいことみたいなんで

It seems like something you want to expand on.

なんか今お考えになってることってあるんですか?

Is there something you're thinking about right now?

あのですから先生さっきおっしゃってくれた

Well, that's why the teacher said it earlier.

たまたまこれも偶然だったんですけども

This also happened to be a coincidence.

沖縄大学でちょこちょこと講義をさせていただいていて

I am giving a few lectures at Okinawa University.

その中であのチャンドラ先生っていう副学長元副学長の方が

Among them, there is that former Vice President, Mr. Chandra.

スイランカ人でスイランカで学校を作りたいっていう話で

"I'm talking about wanting to build a school in Sri Lanka as a Sri Lankan."

一緒にやってくれないかっていうことで

"Could you do it together with me?"

その学校作りっていうものをしていって

"Creating that school."

ちょうどコロナの前の年に学校ができたんですね

The school was established just the year before the pandemic.

えーだからそういう風に思って

Well, that's why I think that way.

スイランカにも行きました

I also went to Sri Lanka.

ところがコロナになって今

However, now that we have COVID-19

なかなか動きが取れない状況なんですが

It's a situation where it's hard to make any moves.

そんな中で僕によくメッセンジャーとか来るんです

In the midst of that, I often receive messages on Messenger.

お金がないんです

I don't have any money.

仕事がないんです

I have no job.

お金ください仕事ください

Please give me money, please give me a job.

って来るんです何人もの人から

Many people are coming.

横で知り合いになった人たちから

From the people I got to know beside me.

あー

Ahー.

お金ください仕事ください

Please give me money, please give me work.

仕事こういうことをしようと思います

I think I will do things like this at work.

一緒にやってくださいじゃないんだ

It's not about doing it together.

うん

Yeah.

何かを一緒にやろう

Let's do something together.

何かを新しいことを作ろう

Let's create something new.

想像するっていうことを考えてくれてないんだ

You haven't thought about what it means to imagine.

想像するっていうことを考える力

The power to think about imagining.

想像することを思考するの頭

The head that thinks about imagining.

というものを

something like that

それを一緒に考えられる場を作りたいっていうのがあるんですよ

I want to create a space where we can think about that together.

でそこの中で新しい仕事を作って

"Create new jobs in there."

それなりに生活ができるようにしようっていうことを

Let's aim to be able to live reasonably.

一緒にやりたいんですね

You want to do it together, huh?

だから夢プロデューサーっていうのは

That's why a dream producer is...

単に夢憧れではなくて

It's not just a dream or a longing.

生きていく中で

In the course of living.

自分自身の夢を実現するためにはお金も必要です

In order to realize my own dreams, money is also necessary.

場も必要です

A space is also necessary.

それを一緒に作りましょうっていうことをしたいんですね

I want to do something where we can make that together.

だから夢プロデューサーってなんとなく大まかしたものではなくて

So, being a dream producer isn't just something vague or general.

その現実に立ち向かって

Confronting that reality.

現実の大変な中で

Amid the difficulties of reality.

次の未来を見つめながら

Gazing toward the next future.

想像をしましょう

Let's imagine.

想像って頭の中で想像じゃなくて

Imagination isn't just something in your head.

作り出しましょう

Let's create.

作り出しましょうっていうことを

Let's create it.

ちゃんと前向きになって考えられる力を養っていく

I will cultivate the ability to think positively and properly.

そんな場であって

In such a situation.

そこで一緒にやるっていうことができるように

So that we can do it together.

その場を作りたい

I want to create that space.

だからスリランカのその学校を作ったっていうのも

That's why they built that school in Sri Lanka.

なんか学校で登校して

Somehow, I went to school.

勉強習って帰ってじゃなくて

It's not about studying and then going home.

ちょっと違うことを私はしたいですね

I want to do something a little different.

うんうんうん

Uh-huh.

そういうところに関わりましたけども

I was involved in that kind of place, though.

そこからまたプラスアルファで私なりの思いの場を

From there, I'll add my own thoughts to create a space.

ちょっと作ってみたいなっていうのがあります

There's something I'd like to try making.

なるほど

I see.

やっぱりそこは教育みたいな

I guess that's like education after all.

広く言えば教育みたいな話ですね

It's more like a discussion about education, broadly speaking.

そうですね

That's right.

あれですよね

That's right.

豊井先生のお話よく分かってる

I understand Professor Toyoi's talk very well.

やっぱりなんか

After all, something...

いわゆる先生で何かを教え授けてみたいなっていう

I want to try teaching something as a so-called teacher.

やっぱり一緒になんかこうやっていくみたいな

I guess it really feels like we're going to be doing something together like this.

なんかそういうのすごく感じました

I really felt something like that.

多分そういうところかな

Maybe that's how it is.

あのー

Um...

生徒学生も魅力に感じるところなんじゃないかなー

I think that's something students find attractive too.

なんていうのちょっと僕も思ったりしました

I was just thinking what to say too.

いやなんか本当お話は尽きないんですけれども

Well, to be honest, I could talk forever about this.

残念なお時間が来てしまいまして

The unfortunate time has come.

今鳥海先生をお迎えしての半歩先トークでした

We had a half-step ahead talk with Professor Toriumi today.

先生なんか最後にお伝えしたいこととか

Is there anything you would like to convey at the end, teacher?

告知したいこととかって何かありますか?

Is there anything you would like to announce?

やっぱりその

After all, that...

宮古文学賞ですか?

Is it the Miyako Literature Award?

うん

Yeah.

いや宮古島文学賞は

No, the Miyako Island Literary Award is...

あの宮古島文学賞

That Miyako Island Literary Award

多分とりみつ色して引くと

Maybe when it's pulled, it turns a torimitsu color.

読めると思うので

I think I can read it.

短編なので

Since it's a short story.

多分無料で読めますので

You might be able to read it for free.

もしよろしかったら読んでみてください

If you don't mind, please try reading it.

素晴らしいねありがとうございます

That's wonderful, thank you!

今また新しい書を書いてます

I'm currently writing a new book again.

じゃあこのpodcastのリンクの下の概要欄のところに

Well then, in the description section below this podcast link...

ちょっとそのリンクかなと

I was wondering if it's that link.

はい

Yes

書いていただければ

If you could write it for me.

よろしければぜひ読んでみてください

If you don't mind, please give it a read.

まだまだもうちょっとこうやって書けばよかったなっていうのもありますけども

There are still things I wish I could have written a little differently.

でもちょっとその辺の思いを入れて書いたので

But I wrote it with some thoughts about that in mind.

よろしければ

If it's okay with you.

はいありがとうございます

Yes, thank you.

ということで本日ゲストは寸大予備校の

So today, our guest is from Sundai Preparatory School.

カリスマ古文講師でいらっしゃる鳥海津弘さん

Mr. Hiroshi Toriumi, the charismatic classical Japanese instructor.

お迎えしての半歩先トークでした

It was a conversation that took half a step ahead upon welcoming.

鳥海先生興味深いお話たくさんありますので

Teacher Toriumi has many interesting stories to share.

お話たくさんありがとうございました

Thank you very much for the conversation.

ということで今日はここまでなんですけれども

So that's all for today.

半歩先トークでは引き続き

In the Half-Step Ahead Talk, we will continue.

興味深いゲストをお迎えして

Welcoming an interesting guest.

いろんなお話伺っていきたいなというふうに思っています

I would like to hear various stories.

次回の半歩先トークもどうぞお楽しみに

Please look forward to the next Half-Step Ahead Talk.