#421 (特別版) 「ビットコイン480億円盗難事件」について話します

DMM.com会長亀山敬司

亀っちの部屋ラジオ

はいどうもディーメン亀山です亀地の部屋久々にやってまいりました特別版です

Hello, this is Demon Kameyama. I've come back to Kamechi's room after a while for a special edition.

はいよろしくお願いします

Yes, please.

はい聞き手は音声プロデューサーの野村貴文が務めます

Yes, the interviewer will be Takafumi Nomura, the audio producer.

今日のテーマはですねビットコイン480億円盗まれた男っていうテーマなんですけど

Today's theme is about a man who had 48 billion yen in Bitcoin stolen.

これはいろいろ聞いてしまった方が大丈夫ですか

Is it okay if I ask you various questions?

はいはい各々聞いてますんで

Yes, yes, everyone is listening.

じゃあちょっと私の方からどんどん聞かせていただこうかなと思うんですけど

Well then, I'd like to ask you a lot of questions.

まず5月31日にDMM.comのグループのDMMビットコインから

First, on May 31, from DMM Bitcoin, a group of DMM.com.

ビットコインおよそ480億円相当が不正流出が検知されたというふうに発表されてるんですけど

It has been announced that approximately 48 billion yen worth of Bitcoin has been detected as being improperly leaked.

改めてその日に何が起きたかっていうのをお話いただいてもいいですか

Could you please tell me again what happened on that day?

はいはい昼頃かな昼前2時か3時だったと思うんだけど

Yes, yes, I think it was around noon, maybe 2 or 3 o'clock in the afternoon.

連絡が来てね

Please let me know when you get in touch.

480億相当

Equivalent to 48 billion.

盗まれましたと

It was stolen.

補填お願いしますと

Please provide compensation.

そういう連絡が昼に来たんですか

Did that kind of message come during the day?

そういう連絡が来ましたね

I received such a message.

どういう感じなのって言ったらまだ原因はよくわかってません

When you ask how it feels, I still don't really understand the cause.

ただ盗まれたことは間違いなさそうなんで

It seems certain that something was just stolen.

夕方ぐらいにはマスコミに出ると思われるんで

It is expected to appear in the media around the evening.

それまでに会社としてはビットコイン側から何とかリリースしないといけませんと

By then, the company must somehow release on the Bitcoin side.

なんで

Why?

それまでに決めてほしいんですっていうことで

I would like you to decide by then.

結局はそうじゃないと

In the end, that’s not the case.

ビットコイン子会社なんだけど会社一体潰れてしまうという形になるんで

It's a Bitcoin subsidiary, but it will end up resulting in the entire company going under.

うちだとしてもね

Even if it's us.

ネームの看板背負ってる以上しょうがないよということで

"It's unavoidable since we're carrying the name."

上がったやつでじゃあ補填しようということで

Let's use the amount that increased to make up for it.

それ自体は本当なんか数分の話で

That's really just a matter of a few minutes.

じゃあいいよそれ出していいよっていう感じかな

Well, I guess it's okay to bring that out.

そうなんですか

Is that so?

そんな感じ

That's how it is.

俺も日頃BSも理解してるから

I also understand BS on a daily basis.

埋めれるなと

"You can't bury it."

思ってはいたんで

I was thinking about it.

じゃあ上がったやつこっちからお金増資しましょうと

Well then, let's increase the funds from here for the ones that have gone up.

っていう感じで

In that kind of feeling.

そうなんですね

I see.

480億円という金額もその時に言われたんですか

Was the amount of 48 billion yen mentioned at that time?

そうだね

That's right.

だいたいこれぐらい金額になりますと

This is roughly the amount of money it will be.

普通に考えると結構すごい額じゃないですか

Isn't it a pretty incredible amount when you think about it normally?

そうだね

That's right.

参ったなと思ったけど

I thought I was in trouble, but...

別に

Not particularly.

現場が一番ビビってるというか

It's more like the site is the most nervous.

なんでねあんまり現場自体

Why isn't the site itself that great?

常にかなり参った感じだったから

I always felt quite defeated.

そうだねここで攻めてもしょうがないし

That's right, it doesn't make sense to attack here.

別に本人たちのせいでもないしということで

It's not really their fault, anyway.

じゃあ頑張れと

Well then, do your best.

金は用意するから

I'll prepare the money.

なんとかなるべく取り戻してくれよと

Do your best to get it back somehow.

いう一言ではあったかな

It was a phrase that could be said.

そんな感じでね

Something like that.

亀山さんのその時の思考の流れとしては

As for Mr. Kameyama's train of thought at that time,

もう聞いた瞬間に

As soon as I heard it.

この500億円近くという

This nearly 50 billion yen.

すごい大きいお金なんですけども

It's a really large amount of money, but...

これはもう出さなきゃいけないなっていうふうに

I feel like I have to put this out.

一瞬で思ったってことなんですか

Does that mean you thought about it for just a moment?

そうだね

That's right.

出せなかったら困るなってなったけど

I started to worry that I wouldn't be able to deliver.

一応計算したらあるなと思ったから

I thought there would be some after calculating it just in case.

これは出さなきゃっていうか

I have to put this out, or rather...

どちらにしてもなんていうから

Either way, what are you saying?

昔はコインチェックがあったじゃない

There used to be Coincheck, right?

ありましたね

It was there, wasn't it?

記者会見見てたから

I was watching the press conference.

あれなんかも結局

In the end, that kind of thing too...

保証したわけじゃない

I didn't guarantee it.

そうですね

That's right.

だけど多分

But maybe.

なんていうかな

What should I say?

いろんな事情があって

Due to various circumstances.

本当は記者会見では何か

What actually happened at the press conference?

検討してますとか

"I'm considering it."

検討中ですとかって言ってたと思うんでね

I think they said they are considering it.

やっぱあの段階で検討してますって言うと

Well, if I say that we are still considering it at that stage...

福郷さん好きに会ってたって

I heard that you were meeting with Fukugo-san.

なんていうかどうなんだみたいな

It's like, what should I say about it?

確かに厳しかったですね世間の声も

Indeed, it was tough; the opinions of the public were quite harsh.

やっぱそうなるよりは

I guess it's better than that happening.

盗まれたと同時に

At the same moment it was stolen.

補助しますって言っておいた方が

It's better to say that I will assist.

ユーザーも安心するし

Users will feel at ease.

どちらにしても保証するなら早い方が

Either way, it's better to do it quickly if you're going to guarantee it.

まあいいかなと

I guess that's fine.

はい

Yes

まあいうことかな

I guess that's what it means.

せめて信用

At least trust.

金が返ってくるか分かんないんだけど

I don't know if I'll get the money back.

せめて信用だけ守っておこうと

"At least let's keep our trust intact."

まあ

Well then.

不幸中の対策みたいな

It's like a countermeasure in the midst of misfortune.

そういう感じかな

I guess that's how it is.

ああそうなんですね

Oh, I see.

差し支えなければなんですけど

If it's not too much trouble, could I ask...

500億円っていう金額って

The amount of 50 billion yen is...

500億円しかない中の500億円って

It's 50 billion yen out of only 50 billion yen.

とんでもないじゃないですか

That's outrageous, isn't it?

でも例えば5000億円ある中の500億円って

But for example, 50 billion yen out of 500 billion yen...

まあ払えなくはないって感じなんですけど

Well, it feels like I could pay for it, but...

どれくらいのインパクトあるお金なんですか

How impactful is the money?

そうだね

That's right.

それぐらいかな

I think that's about it.

うちらで1、2年で戻せるかなっていうぐらいの

We think we can return it in about one or two years.

はいはいはい

Yes, yes, yes.

金額ではあるし

It's an amount.

まあかといってキャッシュ自体が

Well, that said, cash itself...

そうだね一応

Yeah, I guess so.

昔も言ったと思うんだけど

I think I mentioned it before, but...

ちょっと今投資しきれてないっていう

I just can't invest right now.

はいはい

Yes, yes.

状態の中である程度溜まってて

It accumulated to some extent in that state.

純資産が増えてた段階だったから

Because it was a stage where net assets were increasing.

まあちょうどすぐ出せるキャッシュもあったっていう

Well, I just happened to have some cash that I could put out right away.

感じではあったかな

It had that kind of feeling, I guess.

そうなんですね

I see.

確かにそうですね

That's certainly true.

前のインタビューで

In the previous interview

うん

Yeah.

ここ数年来あんまりこう事業投資をされてなくて

I haven't really made any business investments in the past few years.

キャッシュが割とあったっていう風におっしゃってましたね

You mentioned that you had quite a bit of cash, didn't you?

そうだね利益まあ半分ぐらいできたんだけど

Yeah, we made about half of the profit, I guess.

やっぱ半分ぐらいはやりきれないなっていうので

I guess I just can't get through about half of it.

えーまあ溜まってきたと

Well, I guess it's starting to accumulate.

うん

Yeah.

まあそれ元でほら持ち株買いにしようかとか言ってたわけですよね

Well, you were saying things like, "Shall we use that as a basis to buy shares?"

そうですよねはい

That's right, yes.

増えてくからっていうことで

Because it will increase.

まあなんでね

Well, you know.

うんまあ参ったとは思ったけど

Yeah, I thought I was defeated, but...

まあとりあえず会社としてはまあ

Well, for now, as a company...

まあ維持できるなという感じだったかな

Well, it felt like I could just manage to keep it up.

基本的にはね

Basically, yes.

そうなんですね

I see.

うん

Yeah.

そうですよね

That's right, isn't it?

持ち株買いも今あれですよね

Stock buying is now, right?

従業員の方がDMMの株持たれてますよね

The employee holds DMM shares, doesn't he?

そうだね

That's right.

うん

Yeah.

今回流出するとまあそこは少し時価総額が下がるってことなんですかね

So if it leaks this time, I guess that means the market capitalization will drop a little.

それは下がったね

That has decreased.

うん

Yeah.

ちょっとね

Just a little.

うん

Yeah.

だからまあ上がって下がって戻ったみたいな感じになったから

So, it felt like it went up, then down, and then came back.

はい

Yes

えー初めから買った人は損してないんだけど

Well, the people who bought it from the beginning aren't at a loss.

えー今年買った人はえーちょっとマイナスになったとか

Well, for those who bought this year, it seems like they're at a bit of a loss.

こないだ第一回株主とかやったんだけど

The other day we had our first shareholders meeting.

あそうなんですね

Oh, I see.

ちょちょうどこの流出トラブルの後に株主とかがあったんですか

Was there a shareholder meeting right after this leak trouble?

そうそう

That's right.

その時期だったんで

It was that time period.

あそうなんですね

Oh, I see.

うん

Yeah.

で今回も今年もこんだけできてますっていう表がもうできてたのよ

This time, too, there was already a chart showing how much has been accomplished this year.

うんうん

Yeah, yeah.

でこの時期あったら

If it were to be around this time.

はい

Yes

すいませんってあの来年はこうなりそうですっていう

I'm sorry, but it seems like next year will turn out like this.

はい

Yes.

なんていうかな

What should I say?

まあそうなりますよね

Well, that makes sense.

来年はね

Next year, you know.

インパクトとしては

As for the impact,

今回ってもうその事件が起きた原因っていうのは

The reason for the incident that occurred this time is...

うん

Yeah.

総括とか原因究明っていうのはされてるんですか

Is a summary or investigation into the causes being conducted?

いやまだ今現場ではまあ要はいろいろまだやってる最中

Well, we are still in the middle of various things at the site right now.

はいはいはい

Yes, yes, yes.

なんでね

Why?

まあ実際問題は俺もその決済した後は

Well, the actual problem is that after I made that payment...

はい

Yes

まあほとんど会話してないのよ

Well, I haven't really been talking much.

うん

Yeah.

っていうかまあ

Well, I mean...

まあそもそもほら

Well, first of all, you see...

俺よく分かってないじゃない

I don't really understand.

ね

Hey.

セキュリティとかね

Security and such.

まあ変われたこともないっておっしゃってましたよね

Well, you said that you've never been able to change, right?

そうそう

That's right.

だから

So.

そうだね

That's right.

まあそういう感じで現場に任せてたんで

Well, I was leaving it up to the site like that.

うん

Yeah.

まあ今回まあ実際

Well, this time, actually...

まあこれが元に事故起きたんで

Well, this is what caused the accident.

はい

Yes

まあそれで言えばまあ改めてちょっと一生お詫びしとかないといかんのは

Well, speaking of that, I think I need to apologize properly once again.

はい

Yes

まあ基本現状どういう感じかというのは

Well, basically, what the current situation feels like is...

うちらとしてはその

From our side, well...

え

Eh?

まず同社戦

First, the company battle.

でますと

When it comes out...

はい

Yes

でビットコインの購入も終わってますと

I have also finished purchasing Bitcoin.

うん

Yeah.

なんで皆さんのビットコインはちゃんと

Why is everyone’s Bitcoin not doing well?

こちらで保有してますんでと

"I have it here."

うん

Yeah.

ただまあ仕組み的にまだそのうちのビットコインから

Well, the mechanism is such that eventually it will come from Bitcoin.

まあ他のビットコイン交代に移すっていうのが

Well, moving to other Bitcoin exchanges...

はい

Yes

まだちょっとあの準備できてないんだよね

I'm still not quite ready with that preparation.

うん

Yeah.

そこがまだちょっとやってる最中なんで

That's still in progress a bit over there.

そこは少々お待ちくださいっていう

Please wait a moment there.

はい

Yes.

うん

Yeah.

だけどまあ現金で下ろしたかったらいつでも下ろせますと

But well, if you want to withdraw cash, you can do it anytime.

うん

Yeah.

まあただ現金で下ろすとは理解しちゃうじゃん

Well, I understand that you're just withdrawing cash.

そうですねはい

That's right, yes.

なんでまあ皆さん

Well, everyone...

まあ持っているとしたら安心してそのまま預けておいてもらって

Well, if you have it, you can安心してそのまま預けておいてもらって.

もうちょっとお時間待っていただきたいなという感じで

I would like to ask you to wait a little longer, if possible.

取引自体がちょっと今

The transaction itself is a bit uncertain right now.

ビットコインとしての取引ができないみたいな感じになってるのが現状で

It feels like we can't conduct transactions as Bitcoin at the moment.

そういうことですね

I see, that's how it is.

増資は済んでてもうビットコインの購入

The capital increase has been completed, and now the purchase of Bitcoin.

つまり盗まれてしまった分はもうすでに補填が済んでいるということなんですね

In other words, it means that the amount that was stolen has already been compensated.

だからまあやっぱりちょっと上がっちゃったんでね

Well, I guess it went up a little after all.

はい

Yes

結局480がまあ購入したら500億になっちゃったんでね

In the end, once I bought 480, it turned out to be 50 billion.

そうですかはい

I see, yes.

結局ね

In the end, you know.

ちょっとちょっと上がっちゃったけどね

Well, it has gone up a bit, you know.

うん

Yeah.

まあただその分は準備してますと

Well, I'm just preparing for that.

ああそういうことですね

Ah, I see what you mean.

うん

Yeah.

うんいうことなんで

Well, that's what it means.

えー皆さん本当すいませんということであの

Um, everyone, I'm really sorry about that, so...

まあその辺もねある程度言えなかったのもあったから

Well, there were some things I couldn't quite say about that part too.

えーSNSとかも止めてあのこそこそ生きておりましたという

"I've stopped using social media and have been living in secret."

あんまり世間に下手にこう言えないからと

"Because I can't really say this carelessly to the public."

はいはいそういうことですね

Yes, yes, that's how it is.

なんかいろいろ取材も来たんだけど

Various interviews came, but...

ええ

Yeah.

うん聞かれてもさ

Yeah, even if you ask me.

うん俺たちは増資します以外は言うことないから

Yeah, we have nothing to say other than that we will increase our capital.

うんうん

Uh-huh.

いや実際その事件の当日とかだと

Well, actually, on the day of that incident,

結構役員の家とかにも結構マスコミが行ったみたい

It seems that the media also went to quite a few executives' homes.

そうなんですねはいはい

I see, yes yes.

うん多分まあ当本で調べたか何かに行ったんだよな

Yeah, I probably looked it up in a book or something.

まあ俺も石川県に住所あったからさ

Well, I had an address in Ishikawa Prefecture too.

誰も来なかったんだよ

No one came.

あそうか

I see.

亀山さんの当本場のご自宅にもどうだったか

How was it at Mr. Kameyama's home?

あ誰も来なかったですねそこは

Ah, no one came there, did they?

石川県だからね

Because it's Ishikawa Prefecture.

あそういうことですねはいはい

Oh, I see. Yes, yes.

そこは来なかったけど

I didn't come there, though.

でも東京で役員とかはやっぱりなんか行ってるみたいな

But it seems like executives in Tokyo are still doing something.

はいはいはい

Yes, yes, yes.

あそうなんですね

Oh, I see.

まあ住所は分かってない中で俺は

Well, I don't know the address.

はい

Yes

あの無事こそこそ行ってきましたという感じですからね

It feels like, "I went there quietly and came back safely."

まあ他はもうあれですもんね公開されてないですし

Well, the other things haven't been made public yet, after all.

まあそんな感じで

Well, something like that.

はい

Yes

なんでまあちょっと

Well, why don't we take a little...

うん

Yeah.

えーとしばらくSNSも控えてる感じ

I've been taking a break from social media for a while.

はいはいはい

Yes, yes, yes.

まあでもそろそろやっぱ出ないとっていうのは

Well, I guess it's about time to go out.

まあやっぱりもう

Well, after all...

まあ社員には一応

Well, for the employees, just in case...

はい

Yes

えーどうなんですかと

Well, what about it?

うん

Yeah.

まあ聞かれて

Well, you asked.

まあ社内では

Well, within the company...

まあ大丈夫だから

Well, it's okay.

まあ今の事業にも

Well, in the current business as well

まあ今の事業に関しても特に言いようなく

Well, I really have nothing to say about the current business.

えーまあ

Well, I guess...

まあ進んでる場所は何回もあったからね

Well, there have been several places I've advanced to.

まあその場所もいいし

Well, that place is nice too.

えー別に経費削れるとか言わないから

Well, I’m not saying to cut expenses or anything.

まあ今どおりあればいいよと

Well, as long as it's like it is now, that's fine.

まあいいのでまあみんな一安心という感じだったんだけど

Well, it was fine, so it felt like everyone could relax a bit.

やっぱ政権で言うとか取引先とか

As expected, it’s about the government or business partners.

やっぱり心配するじゃない

I knew you would be worried.

そうですね

That's right.

なんで

Why?

まあやっぱりその辺で言うとうちも

Well, I guess we also...

えーまあ大丈夫ですよと

Um, well, it's fine.

あのー

Um...

えー取引先さんも

Well, the client as well...

えーちゃんと支払い滞りませんから

Eh, I won't fall behind on the payment.

心配なくと

Don't worry.

えーいうことも言わなきゃいけないなっていうので

I guess I have to say something like that.

まあ

Well then,

えーまあそろそろ

Well, I guess it's about time.

まあまだ100%

Well, not 100% yet.

えーなんていうかな

Um, how should I put it…

えー迷惑を解消したわけじゃないんだけども

Well, I haven't really resolved the inconvenience.

そろそろと話しようかなという感じで

I feel like it's time to talk slowly.

うん

Yeah.

やってまいりました

I have arrived.

あーそういうことですね

Ah, I see what you mean.

はい

Yes.

じゃあまあ今回を契機に

Well then, let's take this opportunity.

まあ発信も再開されるってことですかね

Well, I guess that means the broadcasting will restart.

そうだね

That's right.

うん一応まあ

Yeah, I guess so.

まあこの件については

Well, regarding this matter...

まあある程度

Well, to some extent.

まあこことまあもう一つぐらい話させてもらうぐらいで

Well, I think I'll just talk here and maybe one more place.

はいはいはい

Yes, yes, yes.

えー一応とどめて

Well, let's just hold on for now.

うん

Yeah.

なんであのー

Well, um...

そうね取材とか

"Well, like interviews and such."

えーいっぱい聞きましたけども

Well, I've heard a lot, but...

はい

Yes.

えーすいません

Um, excuse me.

あの答えられなくとと

I can't answer that.

えーただまあ多分来ても

Well, I guess if I come...

今ここで言ってる内容ぐらいしか言えないんで

I can only say what I've mentioned here now.

えーご勘弁くださいと

Please spare me from English.

そういうことですかね

Is that what it is?

はい

Yes

わかりました

Understood.

はい

Yes

ありがとうございます

Thank you.

あのまだあれですよね

Well, that's still that, isn't it?

新規の講座の解説も

Explanation of the new course.

再開めどは立ってないってことですかね

Does that mean there’s no prospect for resuming?

そうだね

That's right.

今はゲーム全体的にはそう

Right now, that's how it is overall with games.

えー溜まってる状態になるかな

Uh, I wonder if it will be in a state of accumulation.

多分

Maybe

うん

Yeah.

うんと聞いてるんだけど

I've been listening closely.

うん

Yeah.

でまああの現金で下ろしたい人はまあすぐ対応しますっていうのは

So, for those who want to withdraw in cash, we will respond immediately.

うん

Yeah.

まあやれてるっていうとは聞いてる

Well, I've heard that they are doing it.

そういうことですね

I see what you mean.

うん

Yeah.

わかりました

Understood.

あの暗号資産の業界って

That cryptocurrency industry...

神山さんさっきあのコインチェックっていう風におっしゃいましたけど

Mr. Kamiyama, you just mentioned CoinCheck, didn't you?

うん

Yeah.

あの結構定期的にそのハッキング事件が

That hacking incident happens quite regularly.

あの起きているイメージなんですけど

It's that image of being awake, you know?

うん

Yeah.

まあ対策はこうされるわけですよね

Well, this is how measures are taken, right?

うん

Yeah.

でそれでも起きてしまうっていうのはこう

But even so, it happens that you wake up like this.

どういう理由があったんですかね

I wonder what the reason was.

まあこれはねまあ比べるのもなんだけど

Well, I mean, it's hard to compare this, but...

はい

Yes

まあ

Well...

うん

Yeah.

まあテロと同じでさ

Well, it's the same as terrorism.

えー

Ehh.

まあ防御と攻撃だったら防御はやっぱりきついのよ

Well, when it comes to defense and offense, defense is definitely tougher.

はい

Yes.

まあ結局はいつあるか分かんないものに対して備えるということで

Well, in the end, it's about preparing for something whose occurrence we don't know.

うん

Yeah.

まあ例えば昔テロも一回起きただけですごく荷物系に先立ちくなったり

Well, for example, there was once a terrorist incident in the past that really heightened security related to luggage.

そうですね

That's right.

下で聞こえてもね

I can hear it from below, you know.

うん

Yeah.

そんなもんでどうしてもその攻撃側の方がまあローコストでいつやってもいいとか

Why is it that the attacking side can always do it at a low cost and anytime they want?

うん

Yeah.

で防御っていうのはやっぱ運営自体

So defense is ultimately the operation itself.

うん

Yeah.

まあうちもちゃんとはあるけどやってたと思うんだけど

Well, I think we had it properly, but I thought we were doing it.

まあ俺もそんな詳しくないけど

Well, I'm not that knowledgeable either.

うん

Yeah.

ただ今回事故が起きてしまったってのはやっぱりどっか緩みがあって

The fact that an accident occurred this time suggests that there was definitely some kind of looseness somewhere.

はい

Yes

えー運営がもうちょっとこうやちゃんとしとくべきところが多分穴があったんじゃないかと

I think there probably were many areas where the management should have done a better job.

うん

Yeah.

まあその辺はねまあ最近の言うとまあカドカさんとかもあるだろうけど

Well, in that regard, recently there's also Kadoka-san and such, I suppose.

えええ

Ehhh?

まあまあどこの会社でもまあいつこうグラックされてもハッキングされても

Well, at any company, it's possible to be hacked or face some sort of breach.

っていうのは常に危険が隙間とっていたしもっこじゃないんだけど

What I mean is that there has always been danger lurking in the gaps, but that's not the case.

うん

Yeah.

でやっぱりどうしても運営自体が常に100%できるかと

But I wonder if the management can really always operate at 100%.

うん

Yeah.

言うとやっぱりどうしても時間とともにね緩んでたんじゃないかな

I think it inevitably loosened over time, after all.

うん

Yeah.

そこは本当反省すべきだし

That is something we should truly reflect on.

まあ今うちからCPUとかCFOとかまあやっぱその子会社に送り込んで

Well, I'm currently sending CPUs, CFOs, and such from our company to the subsidiaries.

うん

Yeah.

ちょっともうあの体制が緩かったところのそこも含めて今現役を見して

I'm currently showing the active situation, including the parts where that system was a bit lax.

うん

Yeah.

対策しろというのをやってる最中

In the middle of taking measures.

そういうことですね

I see how it is.

うん

Yeah.

亀山さんその経営者としていろんな事業を見られてるじゃないですか

Mr. Kameyama, you are observing various businesses as a manager, aren't you?

でまあ今回のその暗号資産のように割とその何でしょうね一定確率で結構その割と大きなトラブルが起きるっていうような

Well, like this time with the cryptocurrency, there tends to be a relatively high probability of significant troubles occurring.

そういうビジネスについてはどういうものとして捉えてるんですか

How do you perceive such a business?

もう結構そういうリスクも織り込んでっていう感じ

It feels like we're already taking those kinds of risks into account.

ただ今回のリスクはちょっとやっぱ大きかったかな

I think the risk this time was a bit too big, after all.

はい

Yes.

だに対しては

"toward" or "regarding"

えええ

Eeee?

まあ通常で言うとまあむしろ金融とかFXとかまあいろいろまあ他の事業もいろいろあるけど

Well, usually speaking, there are various things like finance, FX, and many other businesses as well.

はい

Yes

まあそういうのもあるんですけど

Well, there are also things like that.

まあそこまでリターンとリスクの幅がちょっと大きすぎるかなっていうのは今回まあ確かにある話かな

Well, I suppose the range of returns and risks is a bit larger than it should be this time.

はいはい

Yes, yes.

つまり預かり資産っていうもの自体がまあ大きいっていうところね

In other words, the asset under custody itself is quite substantial.

うん

Yeah.

まあこの辺はどこまでリスクでリターンっていうのは

Well, to what extent here is it risk versus return?

うん

Yeah.

まあ今回まあうちもコインチェックもたぶん保証できたけど

Well, this time, both our company and Coincheck can probably guarantee it.

はい

Yes

うん

Yeah.

まあ単独でやってるところになるとまあどういう状態これもダイム状態知らないからね

Well, since it's a solo operation, I don't really know what the condition is like; I don't know about the "dime state" either.

うん

Yeah.

まあそこがうまくこう

Well, that's going smoothly.

うん

Yeah.

補填しきれるだけの収益性があるかどうか

Whether there is enough profitability to cover the compensation.

うん

Yeah.

っていうのはまあ結構まあなかなか悩みどころなんじゃない

Well, that's quite a dilemma, isn't it?

うん

Yeah.

この取引所も

This exchange too.

そうですよね

That's right.

うん

Yeah.

コインチェックもあの時は結構あのもともとその前に結構収入があったから

Coincheck also had a pretty good income before that time.

はいはい

Yes, yes.

えー補填しきれたんじゃないかな

Um, I think I managed to cover for it.

うん

Yeah.

ただその頃ほど今はちょっとあの収益性高いわけじゃないから

It's just that right now it's not as profitable as it was back then.

はいはい

Yes, yes.

この状態がね

This state, you know.

うん

Yeah.

なんでまあまあうちだけじゃなくてまあ全体的にまあみんなまあその辺って悩みどころの業界なんじゃないかな

I think it's not just us, but overall everyone in this area seems to have some concerns in this industry.

うん

Yeah.

あのまあ爆弾抱えながらビジネスやりますみたいな話になるからね

Well, it turns into a story like doing business while holding a bomb.

はいはいはい

Yes, yes, yes.

まあそうですよね

Well, that's true.

うん

Yeah.

その爆弾抱えながらでもリターンが出てれば似合うんですけど

It would suit you if you were still able to return while carrying that bomb.

うん

Yeah.

そのバランスがちょっと変わってきてるってことですか

Does that mean the balance has changed a bit?

そうだねまあまあ

That's right, not bad.

まあ他のセキュリティもちょっと俺もわかんないけどね

Well, I don't really understand other security measures either.

まあ極力小さくはできるけどまあゼロにはならないと思うのでね

Well, I can make it as small as possible, but I don't think it will be zero.

はいはい

Yes, yes.

こればっかりが

This is all there is.

うん

Yeah.

でその時にやっぱりそのまあまあ

Well, at that time, after all...

例えば店舗やってたらまあせいぜいそこにある商品取られるぐらいとか

For example, if you were running a store, the worst that might happen is that some of the products there could be taken.

そうですよね

That's right, isn't it?

レジの中で取られるぐらいだったらまあ知れてるっちゃ知れてるのが

If it's something that can be taken from the register, then it's probably not that surprising.

うん

Yeah.

やっぱり資産預かるっていうのはなんていうかな

After all, what can I say about holding assets?

なかなかやっぱり特に仮想通貨

It's still quite something, especially with cryptocurrencies.

はい

Yes

なんであのルパンが金庫入って現金取るとしたら500取るのと

Why would that Lupin go into the vault to take cash, and if he did, why would he take 500?

はい

Yes

まあ結構重いじゃない

Well, it's pretty heavy, isn't it?

まあまあ

So-so.

トラックなんだけど

It's a truck, though.

そうですよね

That's right.

スタバにしたらめちゃめちゃ大きいですよね確かに

It's definitely really big for a Starbucks, isn't it?

でそういうのに比べると早いっていうか

Well, compared to that, it's faster.

はいはい

Yes, yes.

まあ予算一つっていうのもあるからね

Well, there's also the issue of the budget.

うんうん

Uh-huh.

うん

Yeah.

まあこの辺はどうなのかね

Well, what about this area?

まあこればっかりはまあいろんなITとか

Well, this really has a lot to do with various IT and such.

まあAIとかが今後も抱える問題なんだけど

Well, it's a problem that AI and such will continue to face in the future.

はい

Yes

どうしてもさ新しいテクノロジーとに対してそれに新たな犯罪っていうのがついてくるから

No matter what, new technologies inevitably come with new crimes.

うんうんうん

Uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh.

まあその辺がね

Well, that's about it.

じゃあどこまでそのテクノロジーとかサービスを広めていくかっていうのは

So, to what extent will we spread that technology or service?

うん

Yeah.

まあみんな結構ね

Well, everyone is pretty much...

こう

Like this.

イノベーションとか

Innovation, etc.

イノベーションと別のジレンマみたいなものがあるじゃない

Isn't there something like a dilemma separate from innovation?

つまり新しいものが生まれたら新しい犯罪が生まれるみたいな

In other words, when something new is created, new crimes tend to emerge as well.

そうですね

That's right.

うん

Yeah.

まあ世の中に悪い奴いなくなることはないから

Well, there will never be a time when there are no bad people in the world.

はいはい

Yes, yes.

だから

So.

そうですね

That's right.

そうだね

That's right.

まあかといってまあそれでも世の中そっち進むんだろうけどね

Well, even so, I suppose the world is headed in that direction.

うんうん

Uh-huh.

だから進んで多分どっかで

So I'm probably moving forward somewhere.

まあAIもまあなんでもまあ一旦またいろんな法律とか

Well, AI and everything, we need to go through various laws again for the time being.

いろいろ変わったりとかしながら

While changing in various ways

ちょっと後退して

Step back a little.

でまた進んでみたらね

And then when I tried to move forward again…

みたいな繰り返しなんじゃないかな

I think it's a kind of repetitive cycle.

うん

Yeah.

そういうことですね

I see.

うん

Yeah.

確かにな

That's true.

あの

Um...

そうすると

In that case,

まあ今回こういう事業というか

Well, this kind of business or project this time...

そのトラブルが確率は少ないんですけど

The probability of that trouble happening is low, but...

起きたらすごい大きくなってしまうっていう事業に関しては

Regarding the business that says it will grow significantly when you wake up.

まあなんでしょうね

Well, I wonder what it is.

例えばじゃあ利便性を多少損ねてでも

For example, even if it sacrifices some convenience.

あとはその利益を多少下げてでも

"After that, even if we reduce the profit a little..."

やっぱりこう守りを固めていくっていう方向に

After all, it's about strengthening our defense in this direction.

しようっていうふうにお考えなってますか

Are you thinking of doing it?

うん

Yeah.

まあもちろんそれはそうせざるを得ないよね

Well, of course, that's something that can't be helped.

うんうんうん

Uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh.

だからさっきの話で言うと

So, going back to what we were talking about earlier...

手頃で荷物計算があるとしたら

If it's affordable and has a baggage calculation.

そこ自体をさらに強化するみたいな話になるわけじゃない

It's not like we're talking about further strengthening that itself.

だからもう一回チェックした上で

So please check it again.

もう一回さらに人員増やして

Increase the personnel even more one more time.

もうちょっとチェックしていこうとか

Let's check it a little more.

そうするとやっぱりコストがどんどん

In that case, the costs will keep increasing.

日々のコストがあっていくわけよ

The daily costs are accumulating.

運営コストっていうのはね

Operating costs, you see, are...

これがそこで再産生が取れるかなみたいなことには

I wonder if this can be reproduced there.

入ってくるんじゃないかな

I think it will come in.

今後の経営方針が

Future management policy is

俺としてはやっぱり

For me, after all...

うちから今担当役員とかも言ってる

They're saying it's our responsibility as the executives now.

その彼とかの判断で決めると思うんだけど

I think it will be decided based on his judgment or that of others.

まずはどうしたいかっていうのを現場で

First, let's talk about what we want to do on site.

今後どういう風な運営体制でどうしたいかとか

What kind of management system do you want to establish moving forward?

いうことを聞きながら

While listening to what is being said.

あとはその判断委ねるかな

I'll leave the rest up to your judgment.

俺がこうだからって言えるほど知らないんだよ

You don't know me well enough to say that I'm like this.

ここまでやれば

If you go this far...

大丈夫とか

Are you okay?

じゃあある程度

Well, to some extent.

セキュリティ体制については

Regarding the security system.

こういう風ですっていうのが

It's like this.

多分この先出てくるってことですかね

Maybe it means that it will come out from now on.

そうだね

That's right.

IT全体もそうだけど

It's the same for the entire IT field.

バックアップどこまで取りますかとか

How far do you go with backups?

どこまでサーバー分散しますかとか

How far will the server be distributed?

どこまでIDとか

Up to where is the ID, or something like that?

厳しくやりますかみたいな

Are you going to do it strictly or something?

やればやるほどコストかかるんだよ

The more you do it, the higher the cost.

そうですよね

That's right.

なんで

Why?

万が一か

Just in case.

10万円とか

About 100,000 yen.

そんなことを検討してどこまで人員とかセキュリティを強化するかになるんだよね

It comes down to considering such things and determining how much to strengthen personnel and security.

これはこの案件だけじゃなくて全部が考えたんだね今

This isn't just about this case; you thought about everything just now, didn't you?

そうなんですね

I see.

DMMの歴史から見て今回の流出額というかインパクトっていうのは

Looking at DMM's history, the impact of this outflow amount is...

これも相当大きい方なんですか

Is this also quite big?

そうなの一番でかいやつ

That's right, the biggest one.

一番でかい

The biggest.

金額的には一番でかい

It's the largest amount financially.

グループ始まって以来のトラブルっていうようなイメージですか

Is it an image of the first trouble since the group started?

精神的なもので言うと5、6万円くらいだけど

In terms of mental aspects, it's about 50,000 to 60,000 yen.

金額面でやっぱり一番大きい

In terms of amount, it's definitely the largest.

なんだかんだ言いながら

While saying all sorts of things

そうなんですね

I see.

やっぱりいきなりボンとこんだけ持ってかれるのはなかなかない

After all, it's quite rare to suddenly have this much taken away all at once.

特別損失だから

Because it is an extraordinary loss.

そういった意味では初めて赤字になったっていうのは

In that sense, it means that we experienced a loss for the first time.

さすがにちょっとそこの分がマイナスになっちゃったね

As expected, that part over there has turned a bit negative.

そうですね

That's right.

グループとして今回初めて赤字になった

This is the first time the group has gone into the red.

そうだね

That's right.

そうですね

That's right.

手堅くやってきたんだけど

I've been playing it safe.

ちょっと亀山さんの経営者としての判断だったり

It was a bit of a judgment call on Kameyama's part as a business owner.

何を考えたかっていうところにフォーカスして聞いていきたいなと思うんですけど

I want to focus on what you were thinking about.

どうなんですか

How is it?

初めて創業嫌い赤字が出たということじゃないですか

Isn't this the first time that a startup has experienced a loss?

そういう時はどういう心境とかどういう思いなんですか

What kind of feelings or mindset do you have in those moments?

どういう心境か

What state of mind is it?

山行ったなって感じだけど

It feels like we went to the mountains.

事故だから

It's because of an accident.

構造的な問題ではない

It is not a structural problem.

構造的に会社全体が

Structurally, the entire company is

例えばうちらも業種によっては一部衰退していくところもあるわけや

For example, there are areas we are in that may decline depending on the industry.

例えばDVDネタルとか

For example, DVD rental, etc.

いろんなアナログな部分がね

There are various analog aspects, you know.

その分を補うために新しいことをやるじゃない

To make up for that, we do new things, right?

っていうのがやってきた中で言えば

If I were to put it that way.

それが追いつかなくて

I can't keep up with that.

AI感が追いつかなくって

The AI feeling can't keep up.

今のビジネスが衰退していくと

If the current business declines.

結構深刻だね

It's quite serious, isn't it?

今その辺に関してはある程度うまくいってるんで

It's going reasonably well in that regard at the moment.

営業利益というかその段階では常にプラスになってる状態なんで

At the stage of operating profit, it is always in a positive state.

今回の特別損失は事故なんで

This special loss is due to an accident.

時間経てば良くなる

It will get better with time.

1年2年経ったら戻ってそれ以降はプラスになるだろうっていうのは

If you come back after one or two years, it will probably be a plus from then on.

深刻と言われる

It is said to be serious.

ちょっと辛いけど深刻かと言われると未来が見えてくるからね

It's a bit painful, but if you ask me if it's serious, I can see the future coming into view.

未来が見えてくるからね

Because I can see the future.

絶望感がない

There is no sense of despair.

まだ未来は開けてるよみたいな感じで

It feels like the future is still open.

でも事故っちゃったみたいな

It seems like I had an accident.

それは特別損失という段階である意味ちょっと気持ちは楽

At the stage of a special loss, it somehow feels a little easier.

業態的なマイナスじゃないか

Isn't it a negative aspect of the business model?

そういうことですね

I see what you mean.

とはいえというのもあれなんですけど

That said, it's a bit of a situation...

例えば500億円という金額がどうかっていうのは

For example, whether an amount of 50 billion yen is acceptable or not...

人によってお財布の大きさによって違うと思うんですけど

I think it varies depending on the person and the size of their wallet.

例えば私が何らかの事故で500万円を失っても

For example, even if I lose 5 million yen due to some kind of accident,

めちゃめちゃショックを受けると思うんですよね

I think it will be a huge shock.

500万円かみたいな風に

I want to see it as if it's 5 million yen.

自分の貯金からそれが補填せざるを得なくなったら

If I have no choice but to cover it from my own savings.

すごいショックを受けると思うんですけど

I think you'll be really shocked.

それはあるね

That is true.

そのお金がなくなったってことに関しては

As for the fact that the money is gone...

どういう思いなんですか

What are your thoughts on that?

お金がなくなったのはね

It's because I ran out of money.

そうだねでもまあ

That's true, but well...

俺からすればやっぱ一番大事なのは

From my perspective, the most important thing is...

仕事が続けられるってことなんでね

It means that I can continue working.

はいはいはい

Yes, yes, yes.

だからお金がなくなったって

That's why I ran out of money.

資産がなくなったって話じゃない

It's not that I lost my assets.

はい

Yes

でまあもともとほら前も言ってたけど

Well, as I said before...

あんまり資産に対して未練がないというか

It's not that I have much attachment to my assets.

別に子供にそんな継がせてて

It's not like I'm making the kids follow that path.

いっぱい残したいとも思ってない

I don't want to leave a lot behind either.

っていうことで言うと

In that sense,

別にそう資産が残る残らないって

It's not like it matters whether assets remain or not.

どの道最後パンとなくそうぐらいのイメージもある中では

"Even with an image that might not end well anyway."

そこはそれほど俺の個人的には

That's not really personal to me.

個人的にはそれほど

Personally, not that much.

資産減ったんぐらい

"How much has the asset decreased?"

もちろん資産減ったから

Of course, the assets have decreased.

次の例えばどうか

How about the next example?

500万円とか投資がちょっと

Investing about 5 million yen is a bit...

あの

Um, excuse me...

だってのあると思うけど

I think there might be a reason for that.

はい

Yes

ただそれで言えば

Well, if that's the case...

まあ投資は今の中で

Well, investment is among the current options.

自分のやりたいことはできてるわけなんで

I'm able to do what I want to do.

まあ今仕事続けられるのが一番よ

Well, being able to continue working is the best thing.

これで仕事を辞めなきゃいけないって言われて

I was told that I have to quit my job because of this.

俺もちょっと落ち込んで

I'm a little down too.

いやちょっとニュースピックスで

No, just a little bit on NewsPicks.

記者で雇ってもらえます

I can be hired as a reporter.

なんかね

Well, you know...

ニュースピックスの方に似顔合わせるやつですよね

It's the one where you match faces on NewsPicks, right?

ニュースピックスとお願いしますって言うと

When I say "please do NewsPicks,"

ちょっと俺も取材に行きますから

I'll be going to cover the story too.

あちこちとちょっと雇ってくださる方がいいかなと

I think it would be good to have someone who can hire me here and there.

言わざるを得ないじゃない

I have no choice but to say it.

それはやりたいわけじゃないから

It's not that I want to do that.

だからやっぱり仕事を続けられるのは

So, after all, being able to continue working is...

結構やっぱり俺にとっては大事なんで

It's pretty important to me, after all.

やっぱり経営者として

After all, as a business owner.

偉そうにえへんって言いながら

Saying "ahem" in a pompous way.

投資してやるから頑張れよとかって

"I'm going to invest in you, so do your best."

言ってる方が気持ちいいじゃない

Isn't it more satisfying to say it?

はいはい

Yes, yes.

亀山さんに会ってそうな感じがしますよね

It feels like I might run into Mr. Kameyama.

会ってた時が

When we were meeting.

それ以外は大して取り入れないけど

Other than that, I won't really incorporate much.

だからまあ

So, well...

それで言うとまあそうだね

In that sense, well, that's true.

まあそんなもんか

Well, that's how it is, I guess.

そんなもんかなって言ったら

I said, "Is that really the case?"

まあお金が減ったってのはもちろん

Well, of course, my money has decreased.

マイナスのことですけど

It's about something negative, but...

それよりも仕事が続けられるっていうところに

More than that, it's about being able to continue working.

目を向けられてるってことなんですね

It means that attention is being directed towards you, doesn't it?

そうだねやっぱそこ大事だし

Yeah, that's definitely important.

社員たちも別にお役を

The employees are also serving a different role.

今回持ち株買いの件もちょっとあるけど

This time there is also a matter regarding the stock buyback.

それ以外別に給料下がってするわけでもないし

Other than that, there's no reason for the salary to decrease.

社員にとっても

For employees as well

今自分らにやってる部署で

The department we are currently working in.

ちゃんと頑張って

Do your best properly.

それも同じように継続できてる

It has been able to continue in the same way as that.

し

shi

結果出すと給料上がるしってなれば

"If you produce results, your salary will increase."

別にそんな

Not really.

もう落ち込んでないわけよ

I'm no longer feeling down.

大変でしたねとかって言ってるから

I’m saying it was tough, you know?

そうなんですね

I see.

いや初めはざわついたけどね

Well, at first it was a bit restless, you know.

まあ翌日には俺リリースしたから

Well, I got released the next day.

社員はね

Employees, you know.

そうなんですね

I see.

社員は大丈夫だからって

It's fine because the employees are okay.

あと新卒もないって取り消しですかとか

Also, does that mean the cancellation of new graduates?

それも新卒集めてちょっと話もしたからね

I gathered some new graduates and talked a bit, you know.

そうなんですか

Is that so?

こういう状況なんで

Given this situation...

ないっても取り消しないですからと

If you say there's none, then it's not going to be canceled.

親御さんにも安心してくださいと

Please reassure the parents as well.

なんかね

You know, it's like...

そうなんですね

I see.

結構ね

That's fine.

そういうことは社内的にはやってたんだけど

We were doing things like that internally.

ああそうですか

Oh, I see.

そうですよね

That's right.

こういうトラブル事故が起きると

When such troubles and accidents occur,

その外部向けに何かを出すっていうのと

Releasing something for external purposes.

内部向けに何かを発するっていう

To issue something internally.

両方やらなきゃいけないんですよね

You have to do both, right?

そうだね

That's right.

今回外部向け

This time for external use.

内部に関しては社員とかには

Regarding the inside, it's about the employees and such.

そういうふうに安心感あったり

It gives you a sense of security like that.

いけないっていうのは俺の仕事だし

It's my job to say that's not allowed.

あとは取引先にも大丈夫だと

"And I also confirmed that it's fine with the business partner."

社員から言っておいてとは言ってたんだけど

I told them to let the employee know, but...

外部に関しては

Regarding the external aspect.

ユーザーに対してどんな保障しますか

What kind of guarantees do you provide to users?

というのを示さないといけないし

I have to show that.

ただそれ以上

Just that much more.

言えないとこも

Things I can't say.

言えないとかまだできないとこもあって

There are things I can't say or still can't do.

今のタイミングで言ってるのはそういう感じ

What I'm saying at this timing has that kind of feel.

さっきみたいな話までは伝えとこうかな

I think I'll convey something like what I just said.

という感じで

In that kind of feeling.

やっぱりほら

I knew it, after all.

なんていうかな

What should I say?

周りからすれば面白がって我々はやるんじゃないか

From the perspective of those around us, they might think we are doing it for amusement.

そうですよね

That's right.

面白がってっていうか気になりますよね

It's not just amusing; it certainly piques your interest, doesn't it?

フレイモンなんかめちゃくちゃ面白がってたんですよ

Flamon was really enjoying it a lot.

かめちゃん480億いってらっしゃい

Good luck reaching 48 billion, Kame-chan!

そんなYouTube上げられてました?

Was that uploaded on YouTube?

上げてた

I was raising (it).

翌日上げて

Raise it the next day.

その日から

From that day on

それは面白がってますねきっと

I'm sure they're finding it amusing.

みんな2人酔っ払いながら

Everyone is drunk together.

なんかもうかめちゃん大変だバンザーイとか言って

It seems that Kame-chan is having a hard time, saying "Banzai" or something like that.

バカ野郎みたいな

Like a fool.

480億いってらっしゃいと

Goodbye, 48 billion.

なるほど

I see.

そうか

I see.

上げてたんですね堀江さんは

You were raising it, weren’t you, Horie-san?

そうそう

That's right.

このエラー相変わらず性格変わんないなと思ってたんだけど

I was thinking that this error still hasn't changed its nature.

お付き合い長いですもんねかめまさんと

You've been in a relationship for a long time, haven't you, Kame-ma?

20年以上のお付き合いだと思って

I believe we have been together for over 20 years.

もっともっとですかね

Is it more and more?

30年ぐらいのお付き合いですもんね

It's been about 30 years of our relationship, hasn't it?

まあそうだね

Well, that's true.

相変わらずだなと思ったけど

I thought it was still the same as always.

なんでまあ

Well, why...

まあそういう奴らがいっぱいいるから

Well, that's because there are a lot of people like that.

まあそれ聞きながらもうすぐ潰れるんじゃねえのとか

Well, while listening to that, aren't you going to collapse soon?

まあいろんな中で

Well, among various things.

その辺盗まれてんのに偉そうなこと言うんじゃないよとかね

"Don't act all high and mighty when things are being stolen around here."

まあいろいろ書き込まれいっぱいあったからな

Well, there were a lot of various comments written.

なんでまあ一応まあ

Well, for some reason, I guess.

せめてまあ

At least...

安心ですよというぐらいは言わなきゃ

You should at least say it's okay.

ちょっと俺もこの先ほら

Well, I still have a bit ahead of me.

こっから始めないとさ

We have to start from here.

あなたSNSもできないわけよ

You can't even do social media.

まあそうですね

Well, that's true.

じゃないとこの先さ

Otherwise, from here on...

なんか経営とはこういうもんですとかね

It's kind of like this is what management is all about.

俺がなんかどっかのYouTubeで語ってもた

I ended up talking about something on some YouTube channel.

なんじゃ盗まれたくせに

What do you mean, you were stolen from?

あの件はどうなったんだっていう風に

What happened with that matter?

あの件はどうなんだ

How is that matter?

盗まれたくせにはいいんだけど

It's fine for something that was stolen, though.

あの件はどうなんだとか

What about that matter?

説明してから一緒に

Let's do it together after the explanation.

言われるのは目に見えてるんじゃない

It's obvious what they will say.

なんでやっぱりまあ一応まあ

Well, I guess, just in any case, well...

これ始めてから

Since I started this

まあまた経営とはみたいなことを

Well, it seems like it's about management again.

ちょっとやろうかななんていうのを

I was thinking maybe I would try it a little.

スタートしたいかなって

I wonder if I want to start.

そういうことですね

I see what you mean.

思ってましたって感じでね

It feels like I was thinking that.

あの冒頭でおっしゃってましたけど

You mentioned it at the beginning, but...

あの昼に第一歩を受けるわけじゃないですか

It's not like I'm taking my first step at noon.

あの社内で

In that company.

でもう夕方にはあれですか

Is that in the evening already?

そのもうメディアが取り上げるっていうのは

That the media is going to cover that.

その時点で分かってたってことなんですか

Does that mean you knew at that point?

ああそうらしいね

Oh, I see.

あそうなんですね

I see.

やっぱりその被害取引も出してるし

After all, they are also showing that damage transaction.

はいはいはいはい

Yes, yes, yes, yes.

まあまあ警察から含めて

Well, including the police.

やっぱそんな隠した話でもない

It's not really a story that's worth hiding after all.

まあ局長に届けてもしてるだろうしね

Well, I'm sure it's already been delivered to the director.

まあいろいろやってれば

Well, if you try various things...

まあどっからか知らないけど

Well, I don't know where from, but...

まあマスコミに話は行くんじゃない

Well, I suppose the media will get wind of it.

そういうことですね

I see.

じゃあもうその時点で

Well, at that point then...

あのさっきの補填の話なんですけど

About that compensation discussion from earlier...

夕方に出るってのが分かったんで

I figured out that we will leave in the evening.

まあある意味タイムリミットが

Well, in a sense, there is a time limit.

そこだったわけじゃないですか

So that's where it was, right?

だからそこまでにリリースの文章を考え

So please come up with the release text by then.

まああのメンバー部下の方が考えて

Well, that member's subordinate will think about it.

亀山さんとしてはもう全額補填するっていうのを

Mr. Kameyama said that he would cover the full amount.

一瞬で決めたってことですよね

That means you decided in an instant, right?

そうだねそこで

That's right, there.

ビットコインではお金がないので

Since there is no money in Bitcoin.

潰しますとかリリースできないんじゃないか

I don't think we can crush it or release it.

まあそうですね

Well, that's true.

まあそうですよね

Well, that's true.

まあそしたらまあリリースと同時には

Well, then it will be at the same time as the release.

今回リリースと同時に補助しますが

I will assist with the release this time as well.

同時に出てたから

Because they were released at the same time.

まあ炎上も少なかったと思うんだよ

Well, I think there wasn't much backlash.

コインチェックの頃に

Around the time of Coincheck.

なんでまあそういう意味でその辺

Well, for that reason, in that regard...

だからうちらも正直言って

So, to be honest, we...

炎上も覚悟で

Prepared for backlash.

とにかくサポートとかCSも用意してたね

Anyway, they also had support and customer service prepared.

あそうなんですね

Oh, I see.

問い合わせ

Inquiry

絶対来る

I will definitely come.

から対応要因を増やせみたいな話よね

It's the kind of story that suggests increasing the factors for response.

でも意外とあんま来なかったんでね

But surprisingly, there weren't many who came.

そうだったんですね

I see, so that's how it was.

なんで思ったほど来てませんって

"Why haven't as many come as I thought?"

ほぼあんまりほとんど来なかったみたいなことがあって

It seems like they almost never came.

まあそれはそれで

Well, that's that.

一応まあ初動としては良かったかな

I guess it was fairly good as a first move.

そうですね

That's right.

確かに

Certainly.

何も言えませんって記者会見開くくらいなら

If you're going to hold a press conference just to say you can't say anything, then...

保証しますって開かない方がマシだろう

I guarantee it would be better if I don’t open it.

うーんそういうことですよね

Hmm, that's how it is, isn't it?

そこの判断があったってことですよね

So that means there was a judgment made there, right?

うんうんうんそういう感じで

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's the feeling.

ですよね

That's right.

多分そのこういう事故が起きた時の

Maybe when such an accident happens.

世間が納得するパターンって

The patterns that the world can agree upon are...

記者会見開いて社長の方がすごいきちんと説明するか

The president will explain thoroughly at the press conference.

実害はないですよっていうのを

There is no actual harm.

示すかっていうのはどちらかですもんね

It's about showing which one it is, isn't it?

お客様にとって実害はないですよって

There is no actual harm to the customer.

Bitcoin側でやっぱあの状態で

On the Bitcoin side, it's still in that state after all.

記者会見開ける状態じゃないと思う

I don't think it's in a condition to hold a press conference.

多分壊していくのもそうだけども

Maybe it's about breaking things too.

結構パニックってる状態じゃないですか

Aren't you in quite a panic?

すぐやらされたからね

I had to do it right away.

あの段階で

At that stage.

いろんな事情があってすぐ言えなかったんだと思うんだよね

I think there were various circumstances that made it difficult to say it right away.

多分初めから保証する日で

Maybe it's a day that guarantees from the very beginning.

言ったと思うんだよ

I think I said it.

コインチェックの場合も

In the case of Coincheck as well.

でも多分

But maybe

いろんな株主もいるだろうし

There must be various shareholders.

うちは効果不効果は

I wonder about the effectiveness.

非常上で

In an extremely superior manner.

俺が決済すればすぐの話

If I make the payment, it can happen right away.

即座にできたけど

It was done immediately, but...

通常だとやっぱちょっと

Normally, it's just a bit...

すぐじゃあ

Right away.

保証についていいよって言われてもさ

Even if I'm told it's okay about the guarantee...

やっぱ株主説明責任あるじゃない

After all, there is accountability to shareholders, isn't there?

そうですよね

That's right.

もしかして株主総会かけたら

Maybe if I call the shareholder meeting.

切り捨てろとか言われるかもしれない

You might be told to cut it off.

それはまあ

Well, that's...

いろんな大人の事情はないけど

There are no various adult circumstances.

上場会社とか

Publicly traded companies, etc.

やっぱ投資家のある会社には

After all, companies with investors...

事情ができる

Things have come up.

それはね別に初動がっていうか

Well, it's not really about the initial response or anything.

どうしても仕方なかったかもしれない

It may have been unavoidable after all.

立場的に

From a positional standpoint.

合意形成をしなきゃいけないってことですかね

I guess that means we need to reach a consensus.

確かに

Certainly.

そこはもう独裁者の特権みたいな話じゃないけど

It's not really a matter of a dictator's privilege anymore, but...

いいとこもあるんだけど悪いとこもあるし

There are good points, but there are also bad points.

いろいろあるけど

There are various things, but...

今回はそれですぐ

This time, that's it.

2,3時間後に間に合うように

To be on time in about 2 or 3 hours.

できたっていうのはあるかな

I wonder if I've managed to do it.

そういうことですね

I see what you mean.

そうかもう亀山さんが

I see, Mr. Kameyama is already...

意思決定をすればいけたっていう

It's said that it would have been possible if a decision had been made.

そういう組織構造も

Such a organizational structure too.

今回の場合は走行した

In this case, it was driven.

逆に言うと

Conversely speaking.

それまでのやつに関しては

As for the one until then

通常の運営体制は

The normal operational structure is

ビットコイン側で

On the Bitcoin side

やってて逆に俺は口出さない

On the contrary, I won't interfere while you're doing it.

って言ったりして

"Like I said."

今回はそこでまがなきれないから

This time, I can't avoid it there.

出てきたっていう

It said it came out.

出てた決裁を働かせた

I made the decision that was made earlier work.

そういうことですね

I see what you mean.

あなたにうちから

From my home to you.

いろんな人間を送り込んで

Send in various people.

現役を目に当たらせた

I witnessed the active duty.

という形にはなるけどね

It will take that form, though.

そういうことですね

I see what you mean.

なるほど

I see.

この辺はねやっぱり

Well, this area is...

日頃はそれで

Thank you for your usual support.

日頃は現場に

On a daily basis at the site

委託して

Please commission (it).

最終責任は

The ultimate responsibility is

俺のほうで持つみたいな

It seems like I'll be the one to hold it.

その体制にしとかないと

We have to keep that system in place.

逆で

The opposite.

組織役までの時がたまにあるから

Sometimes there are times until the organization role.

逆にやると

If you do it the other way around,

むちゃくちゃおかしくなるよね

It gets really ridiculous, doesn't it?

そうするとDMMってずっと

So, does that mean DMM will be around forever?

非常常でやっときたんですけど

I finally made it here, but under very unusual circumstances.

上場企業ではなくて

Not a listed company.

非常常でい続けたことが

What has continued to be extraordinary

今回の対応ができたっていうのに

Even though we were able to respond this time.

すごく効いて来た Garciaは

Garcia has really started to work.

思いはありますか

Do you have feelings?

結果論的にそうだったってことかな

I guess it turned out that way in hindsight.

はい

Yes

ただどうしてもスピードは非常上というかある意味上場でもいいんだよ権限が集中というか即決できればね

However, I must emphasize that speed is exceptionally important, and in a sense, it's fine even if it's a listed company; as long as the authority is centralized and decisions can be made immediately.

今回見た権限だとどうしてもどんなある程度株を51%持っている社長だとしても

Based on the authority seen this time, no matter how much stock the president holds, even if it's as much as 51%, it's unavoidable.

やっぱりちょっとこれ即座にこの子会社ある意味選択がなければいいんだけど

I really hope that this subsidiary doesn't have to make a choice immediately, in a way.

一応選択があるのよ

There is at least a choice.

つまり子会社を切り捨てますという

In other words, it means we will abandon the subsidiary.

倒産させますという

I will make you go bankrupt.

会社から出しますというのがあるじゃない

There’s something about being released from the company, right?

こういう時になる時に

When it becomes a time like this.

そうだね

That's right.

例えば51%持っている社長であっても

For example, even if it's a president who holds 51%.

株主に問わざるを得ない話かもしれない

It might be a story that we can't help but ask the shareholders about.

勝手にごめんじゃないよとか言われると

When I'm told "It's not my fault" without permission...

株主がいっぱいいる場合はですね

When there are a lot of shareholders, you see,

いる時がね非常に関わらずね

Even when you're present, it doesn't really matter.

コインチェックもあの時は非常に良かった

Coincheck was very good at that time.

はずだけど

It should be, but...

でもやっぱり株主はいっぱいいたんじゃないかと思う

But I still think there were a lot of shareholders.

そうですねベンチャーキャピタルとか

That's right, like venture capital.

その辺の中で言うとやっぱりどうしてもそこを無視して

Among those, I can't help but ignore that part.

決済できるかというのはあるよね

There is the issue of whether it can be settled.

もちろん逆に言うと

Of course, conversely speaking...

今回の判断が

This judgment this time...

俺が正しくなかったとしたら

If I was not right.

株主が止められたっていうのもあるわけよ

There is also the fact that shareholders were stopped.

だからいいとこと悪いとこは分かんないよね

So you can't really tell the good and bad points, right?

俺が何回も簡単に言うと

I'll say it simply multiple times.

違う判断をした時にそれが良くないこともあるよね

Sometimes when we make a different judgment, it can turn out to be a bad thing, right?

し分かんないけど

I don't know, but...

今回の判断って正しかったか正しくないかっていうのは

Whether this decision was right or wrong is

これぜひ分かれるわけよね

This is definitely something that can be separated, right?

もしかしたら社員からすると

"Perhaps from the employees' perspective..."

それしなかったら持ち株価が下がらなかったらいいってなるじゃない

If you don't do that, then it wouldn't be great if the stock price doesn't drop, right?

まあそうですね

Well, that's true.

審査落ちなかったらいいってなるわけだからね

As long as I don't fail the examination, that's all that matters.

だからそれで言うとやっぱりみんな

So if we say that, everyone after all...

意見がいくつか出てきておかしくないよね

It's not unusual for several opinions to come up.

立場になって

In your position.

株主立場だったらどう?

What if you were in the position of a shareholder?

野村君だったらどう?

What about Nomura-kun?

下がっちゃうわけじゃない?

Isn't it going to go down?

飛び入って

Jump in.

もうそろそろ売ろうかなって思った会社だったら

I was thinking it might be time to sell the company soon.

いやそこ落とすなよって

Don't drop that there!

来年どうでもいいから今株価下げんじゃないよとか思うんじゃない?

Aren't you thinking something like, "I don't care about next year, so don't let the stock price drop now"?

早くもう今売り抜きようと思っていたら

I was just thinking about selling out quickly.

マジかよって思いますね

I really can't believe it.

そしたら反対意表入れるじゃない

Then you'll go against my intentions, won't you?

そうですね

That's right.

壊しやすいませんみたいな

It’s like saying "I'm sorry for being fragile."

そうですね

That's right.

そうだね

That's right.

だけどまあ

But well...

何て言うかな

I wonder what to say.

まあ

Well then.

経営者が判断間違うことはあるから

Because there are times when managers make mistakes in judgment.

多くの意見でやることも

There are many opinions on what to do.

まあ大事なときはあるわけよ

Well, there are important times.

まあそれが

Well, that's it.

まあ何て言うかな

Well, how should I put it?

上場返しにおけるカバナンスみたいな

Like governance in the context of listing back.

まあ暴走防ぐみたいな

Well, it's like preventing a runaway.

だから

So.

まあ俺はある意味今回暴走してやったわけじゃん

Well, in a way, I kind of went on a rampage this time, didn't I?

まあ即決というか

Well, it's more like a prompt decision.

即決

Immediate decision.

独断でやったわけですよ

I did it on my own accord.

それが

That is it.

まあ

Well.

結果的に良かった悪かったは

Whether it was ultimately good or bad is...

まあどうなるんだね

Well, I wonder what will happen.

まあ歴史が判断することでございますみたいな話ですね

Well, it's a story that history will judge, isn't it?

何だろうね

I wonder what it is.

どうですか

How is it?

その仮想通貨特有の

The unique characteristics of that cryptocurrency.

まあこう

Well, like this.

リスクに直面したわけじゃないですか

Isn't it that you faced a risk?

今後その

From now on, that

仮想通貨ビジネスを

Cryptocurrency business

どういう風にしていきたい

How do you want to go about it?

なんなら踏み込んで言うと

If I may go so far as to say,

結構過去に流出事件が発生した交換所って

It's a cryptocurrency exchange that has had quite a few leak incidents in the past.

他社に買われることが多いと思うんですけど

I think it's often bought by other companies.

なんかその辺りって亀山さんの中で

Somewhere around there, it seems to be in Mr. Kameyama's mind.

そこがね

That's the place.

まあ俺が判断する前に

Well, before I make a judgment.

まず

First

まあうちらの方の

Well, from our side...

その担当役員が

The responsible executive.

はい

Yes

どう判断するかを聞いてから決めようかなと

I think I’ll decide after hearing how you judge it.

うん

Yeah.

俺が

いや頑張ってやるよ

No, I'll do my best.

またやろうぜって言って

Let's do it again.

もう僕これこれですって言うかもしれない

I might say, "This is it for me."

例えばね

For example, you know.

はいはいはい

Yes, yes, yes.

しやりたいですって言うかもしれないし

You might say that you want to do it.

こういう風に言ってやりたいかも

I might want to say it like this.

そこはさ俺もちょっと

Well, I also...

まずは現場っていうかな

First of all, it's about the scene, I guess.

はい

Yes

責任者の意見聞いてから

After hearing the responsible person's opinion.

それを受けて

In response to that

じゃあどうしようかと

So, what should we do?

まずやっぱ本人っていうか

First of all, it's about the person themselves, I guess.

やってる責任者の意思がないとさ

If the person in charge doesn't have the willingness to do it...

はい

Yes

俺も動けないわけよ

I can't move either.

うん

Yeah.

俺が別に知りたてでもしょうがないじゃない

It's not like it matters if I just learned it or not.

うん

Yeah.

だからいろんな意味で今後だから

So for various reasons, it’s because of the future.

あの

Um...

そういう風にミッドコインをしていくかは

Whether to proceed with mid-coin like that or not.

またそこもちょっと

That's a little bit there too.

今回ある程度落ち着くまでは

For now, until things settle down to some extent.

多分判断しきれないかなと

I might not be able to judge it completely.

そうですね

That's right.

でも亀山さんのその判断の根拠というか

But the basis for Mr. Kameyama's judgment is...

あの基準としては

As a standard for that

あの実際今やられてる方が

The person who is actually doing it now.

何を

What?

あの

Um...

どういうレポートを上げてくるか

What kind of report will you submit?

何をやろうとしているかってことですか

Are you asking what I'm trying to do?

そうね今回のまずまあ原因がこうでしたと

Well, this time, the cause was like this.

はい

Yes

で今後こうしたいですと

And I would like to do this in the future.

っていうのが

That being said

どういう感じで続け続けていきたいのか

How do you want to continue from here?

今どおり

As it is now.

まあこういう形でやめたいのか

Well, is this the way you want to quit?

あのまあそこはちょっとね

Well, that's a bit of a situation.

あのやっぱり聞いてみないとわからないよね

Well, I guess you won't know unless you ask.

俺はね

I amね

そういうことですね

I see what you mean.

うん

Yeah.

わかりました

Understood.

同じウェブスリーでも

Even in the same Web3

まああの全く別の舞台で

Well, on a completely different stage...

あのウェブスリー

That Web3.

まああのトークンを出してる

Well, they're issuing that token.

出そうとしてる

"I'm about to come out."

もうすぐDMMとしての子会社なんだけど

It will soon become a subsidiary of DMM.

これもね

This too, you know.

まああの新たにトークンは出すわけで

Well, we will issue new tokens.

はいはいはい

Yes, yes, yes.

上場するっていうのがね

Going public, you see...

でそっちのほうは

How about over there?

あのまあ今のところ

Well, for now...

予定どおりやる予定

I plan to proceed as scheduled.

うんうん

Uh-huh.

それはまあビットコインとかじゃなくて

Well, it's not like Bitcoin or anything.

うち独自のトークンを上場させるみたいな話だね

It seems like they're talking about listing their own unique token.

あそうなんですね

Oh, I see.

まあゲームとかブロックチェーンゲームとか作って

Well, I want to create games and blockchain games.

プラットフォーム作って

Build a platform.

でうちらのトークン出していきましょうという

So let's bring out our tokens.

プランはもう一個あるんだよね

There's one more plan, you know.

はい

Yes

そこはまあ予定どおりやってますと

Well, we're going according to plan there.

まあただ今回の件でちょっとそこも

Well, just with this incident, that might be an issue too.

あの上場の時に

At the time of the listing.

セキュリティが大丈夫なのっていうのを

Is the security okay?

はいはいはい

Yes, yes, yes.

ちょっと厳しく今言われてますと

I'm being told a little harshly right now.

あそうなんですね

Oh, I see.

上場価格ちょっと下げましょうかみたいな

Should we lower the listing price a bit?

まあいろんな話もあったり

Well, there were various stories.

ええええええ

Eeeeeeeh!

あの多少の影響はあるけど

There is some influence, but...

うんうんうん

Uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh.

まあ実質問題

Well, in practical terms.

あのシステム部とかも全く別なんで

That system department is completely different as well.

うんうん

Uh-huh.

別の会社としてなんで

Why as a different company?

うんそこはじゃあまあ

Well, in that case...

うん多少の変更はあるけど

Yeah, there are some changes.

まあ基本的に進めてくれという感じで

Well, basically, I feel like you should just go ahead.

そっちはやってます

I'm doing that over there.

うんそういうことだね

Yeah, that's how it is.

まあ今回の件は取引所だからね

Well, this time it’s because it's an exchange.

はいはい

Okay, okay.

うんで取引所としては

Well, as an exchange...

そのまあ現物っていうのを

Well, regarding that actual thing...

預かしてたのが大きいってとこで

The fact that I was entrusted with it is a big deal.

はい

Yes

うんでそこの部分が今回大きな問題

Yeah, that part is a big problem this time.

うん

Yeah.

それ以外に関してっていうか

As for anything else...

まあ全体的にまあ仮想通貨自体の

Well, overall, the virtual currency itself...

広がりっていうのはやっぱり

The expansion is surely...

大きい流れで言えばやっぱり広がってはいくと

In a broader sense, it seems to be expanding after all.

思ってはいるんだよね

I do think about it.

うん

Yeah.

だから時々事故も

So sometimes accidents happen too.

まあうちだけじゃなくて

Well, it's not just us.

もう定期的に事故って言ってるわけよ

I'm saying that accidents happen regularly now.

あっちもこっちも

Both over there and over here.

まあまあそうですね

Well, that's that.

取引所もね

The exchange too.

はい

Yes.

うん

Yeah.

まあそれはまあ日本でも海外でもね

Well, that applies both in Japan and abroad.

はい

Yes

うん

Yeah.

でその中でそうなるたびになんか

So every time that happens...

まあみんなちょっと不安になる

Well, everyone becomes a little anxious.

うんうん

Uh-huh.

しでまたしばらくだとまた上がってきて

If it's a camel, it will come back up again.

っていうのを繰り返して

Repeating that over and over.

今の業界がまあ徐々に上がってきてるのが

The current industry is gradually improving.

今の世界

The current world.

うんうん

Yeah, yeah.

いうところにも何回か揺り返しがあったわけ

There were a few periods of backlash, you could say.

そうですね

That's right.

うん

Yeah.

で今も結構昔に比べば

Well, even now it's quite different compared to the past.

まあ値段ついてるよね

Well, it has a price tag on it.

はい

Yes

うん

Yeah.

だからみんなある程度爆弾をいくらか抱えながらも

So everyone is carrying a certain amount of bombs to some extent.

ええ

Yeah.

その爆弾をなるべく

As much as possible, that bomb.

小さく

Small.

うん

Yeah.

小さく

Small.

しながらなのか

Is it while doing something?

はい

Yes

小さいと思いながらなのか

Is it because I think it's small?

わかんないけどね

I don't know, though.

まあまあまあまあ

Well, well, well, well.

まあでも

Well, but...

両方かもしれないですね

It might be both.

でも

But

でもその仮想通貨の可能性っていうものに

But regarding the potential of that cryptocurrency,

やっぱり惹かれて

I'm still drawn to you.

うん

Yeah.

やっぱ多くの投資家

After all, many investors...

うん

Yeah.

多くの人たちがそこに未来をかけてるわけよ

Many people are betting their future on that.

うん

Yeah.

なんで

Why?

まあ苦難がどこまでどうなるか知りませんけど

Well, I don't know how far the hardships will go.

はいはい

Yes, yes.

全体は知らないけど

I don't know the whole thing, but...

うん

Yeah.

今の流れで言うとやっぱり

Given the current trend, after all...

うん

Yeah.

この業界はまだ大きくなる

This industry is still going to grow.

うん

Yeah.

かなと

Kanato

うん

Yeah.

ウェブ3

Web 3

なるほど

I see.

神山さんご自身も結構その暗号資産の未来っていうのは

Mr. Kamiyama himself is also quite optimistic about the future of cryptocurrency.

割と可能性を感じられてますか

Do you feel a relatively strong sense of possibility?

ちょっと詳しく伺いたいなと思うんですけど

I would like to ask in a bit more detail.

そこはやっぱり

Well, that's still...

それは感じるよ

I feel that.

はいはい

Yes, yes.

まあAIほど早くないかもしれないんだよね

Well, it might not be as fast as AI.

その安定はね

That stability, you know.

はいはい

Yes, yes.

まあAIも安定するかともかく

Well, whether AI stabilizes or not...

AIはまあここ

AI is about here.

もう2,3年で結構サブ割りする

In about 2 or 3 years, there will be quite a bit of sub-distribution.

はい

Yes

でも

But

まあ

Well...

ウェブ3が一般的に

Web3 in general

みんながっていうのはもうちょっと時間かかるかな

It might take a little more time for everyone.

あと2,3倍の時間は

It will take another two or three times as long.

はい

Yes

かかると思うんだけど

I think it will take a while.

まあそれでもね

Well, even so.

みんながなんとなく

Everyone somewhat

あんまり意識しないままに仮想通貨を持つみたいな

It's like having cryptocurrency without really being conscious of it.

社会観っていうのはまあ広がってくるんじゃないかな

I think the social perspective will probably expand.

と思ってはいるよ

I think so.

うん

Yeah.

なんかそのお感じになる背景をぜひ知りたいんですけど

I would really like to know the background behind that feeling you have.

どのあたりの根拠というか

What do you mean by the basis for that?

事象を見てそういうふうに思われますか

Do you think that way when you look at the situation?

その辺の事象ね

The phenomenon around that area.

はい

Yes

まあまあ一つはまあ

Well, one is okay.

少なくともそのまあビットコインっていうもの自体が

At least, that thing called Bitcoin itself

はい

Yes

まあある意味はどんどん上がってきてるわけじゃない

Well, in a sense, things are definitely improving.

値段はそうですね

The price is, well, you know...

はい

Yes.

でみんなの捉え方としたらやっぱりその

Well, everyone’s perspective on it is still that...

発行量に限りがあるっていうことで

Due to the limited issuance quantity.

むしろ通貨というよりも金のような見方をしてるわけで

Rather, I'm viewing it more like gold than as a currency.

で実際問題

So, the actual issue is...

なんていうかな

What should I say?

仮想通貨の価値が上がってくというよりも

Rather than the value of cryptocurrency increasing,

俺からすると

From my perspective.

本来のドルとか円という通貨が下がってるという

It is said that the original currencies like the dollar and yen are decreasing.

はいはいはい

Yes, yes, yes.

だから別に金の価値が上がるかっていうので言うと

So, if we're talking about whether the value of money will increase or not...

もともとあったものは一緒なんだろうけど

What originally existed is probably the same.

結局は下辺の価値が落ちれば

In the end, if the value of the lower class decreases,

まあ相対的にそっちが高くなる話じゃない

Well, it's not a relative situation where that would be more expensive.

まあそれだけなんていうかな

Well, what should I say about that?

まあある程度

Well, to some extent.

国が気が向いたら

If the country feels like it.

発行量増やせるっていう通貨に対する

A currency that can increase its issuance.

はいはい

Yes, yes.

みんなやっぱりだんだん

Everyone is gradually...

その辺に関したらまあどんどん下がってくるよねっていう

In that regard, it's going to keep declining, right?

まあ相反するものがまあそういった感じでね

Well, opposing things feel that way, you know.

入れられるものみたいな発想になるんじゃない

It seems like you're thinking of something that can be put in.

うんうん

Uh-huh.

確かにまあ日本円なんか相当あれですもんね

Indeed, the Japanese yen is quite something, isn't it?

発行量増やしてずっと増やしてきましたもんね

They have been increasing the issuance amount continuously.

もちろん仮想通貨なんかにいろんな通貨あると思うんだけど

Of course, I think there are various types of currencies in cryptocurrency.

まあその中でビットコイン並みの信用を得た通貨だよね

Well, it's a currency that has gained a level of trust comparable to Bitcoin.

つまり

In other words

もちろんなんかうさんくさいのもいっぱいあるからさ

Of course, there are a lot of suspicious ones too.

はい

Yes

そういったのもまあいろいろありながら

While there are various things like that,

だから俺たちもやっぱweb3のまあうちでもトークン出すとしたら

So if we were to issue tokens in our own Web3 project,

やっぱりその目先で利益を言おうとは思わず

I knew you wouldn't think about talking about immediate profits.

あのむしろまあ事業的なものでなるべくトントンに持ってきながら

Well, let's try to balance it out as much as possible in a business-like manner.

はい

Yes

うんその価値を上げていこうっていう発想なんで

Yeah, it's the idea of increasing its value.

うん

Yeah.

DMMトークンそのものの価値を上げていく

Increase the value of the DMM token itself.

うんだからそうだね

Yeah, that's right.

目先でそのまあいくらか売って売り抜けよとかっていう

"Focusing on selling a little bit for now and cashing out."

トークンが結構あるじゃないよ

You don't really have that many tokens.

まあそうですねはいお金だけ集めてみたいな

Well, that's right, I just want to gather money or something like that.

じゃあとしたら別にこれはもう今で俺は自家総額なんかどうでもいいという

Well, in that case, I don't really care about my net worth anymore.

はい

Yes

うんむしろビジネスで利益出していけっていう

I mean, rather, it's about making profit in business.

うん

Yeah.

の主体でやってきたんだけど

I have been doing it mainly as the primary focus.

まあこのものに関してはむしろ利益は出さなくていいから

Well, regarding this matter, it’s actually better if we don’t make a profit.

えー仮想通貨の価値を上げろっていう

"Hey, you're telling me to increase the value of cryptocurrency."

うん

Yeah.

まあ全く真逆の思想でweb3事業部をやってる

Well, we're running the Web3 division with a completely opposite mindset.

あそうなんですね

Oh, I see.

うん

Yeah.

これまでのあの経営スタイルとは逆の方向ってことですね

So it's the opposite direction from that management style we've had until now.

そうだね

That's right.

うん

Yeah.

だからその中でまま叶えるように運営費が

Therefore, the operating costs are structured to make it possible to fulfill that.

まあゲームとか作るのにお金かかるじゃない

Well, making games costs money, right?

はいはい

Yes, yes.

うんでその分の運営費ぐらいはまあいくらかコインを出していくのはいいけど

Well, it's fine to contribute some coins for the operating costs for that.

うん

Yeah.

まあ基本的に

Well, basically.

コインを売って利益を得るというよりは

Rather than making a profit by selling coins,

まあなるべく維持しながら価値を上げていくっていう

Well, it's about increasing value while maintaining it as much as possible.

うん

Yeah.

でそこ自体にまあ新しいなんか

Well, something new over there itself.

まあこれもこれで新しい

Well, this is new in its own way too.

まあ俺からするとチャレンジ的な

Well, from my perspective, it's challenging.

うん

Yeah.

その真ん中あたりののがまあ株式上場みたいな世界かな

Well, that part in the middle is like the world of stock listings.

うん

Yeah.

だからすごく俺からするとまあ商売で利益っていうのと

So from my perspective, it's really about making a profit in business.

はい

Yes

まあ自家存額のみしか見ませんっていう

Well, I only look at the self-storage amount.

ええええ

Eeeeeh?

この両極や

This duality.

そうですね

That's right.

やろうとしてるから

Because I'm trying to do it.

はいはいはい

Yes, yes, yes.

上場はやってないんだけど

I'm not listed, though.

真ん中やってない

I haven't done the middle.

一番多くの企業がやるところはやらずに

Not doing the things that most companies do.

そうだね

That's right.

そうなんですね

I see.

もう右と左極端にやってる

I'm already doing it extremely to the right and left.

そうなんですね

I see.

ああなるほど

Ah, I see.

その自家存額トークンそのものの価値を上げるっていうのは

Increasing the value of that self-storage token itself is...

まずはDMMグループの中でそのトークンを使える場面を増やしていくみたいなことなんですか

Is it about increasing the scenarios where that token can be used within the DMM group?

まあそれも後々やると思うけど

Well, I think I'll do that later on.

とりあえずは今はまあどちらかというとその独自の中で

For now, let's say that it's somewhat unique within its own context.

DMMとか

DMM and so on.

あとプラットフォーム的なとか

Also, something like a platform.

まあトークン独自の展開

Well, a unique development of the token.

はい

Yes.

あの新しいサービス

That new service.

はい

Yes.

こういうのやるとトークンもらえますよとか

If you do something like this, you can get tokens.

ああそうなんですね

Oh, I see.

はい

Yes.

まあいろんなビジネスあるけど

Well, there are all sorts of businesses.

DMMとの連携はまあ後々やるけど

We'll deal with the integration with DMM later.

と思うんだけど

I think so, but...

今は独自で動かしてる

I am currently operating independently.

うん

Yeah.

その中でやってみて

Give it a try within that.

どこまで

How far?

これもこのチームに委ねてるから

I'm leaving this to this team as well.

はい

Yes

俺としても大筋の予算と概念

For me, it's also the general budget and concept.

初期の費用とか

Initial costs and such.

まあそういったものは出してるけど

Well, they do release things like that.

うん

Yeah.

ある程度もう動き出したら自分出して叶える

Once you start moving to some extent, express yourself and make it happen.

うん

Yeah.

中でやれよと

"Do it inside."

うん

Yeah.

という感じで今

It feels like that now.

ほぼほぼその運営体制は任せてまいります

I will pretty much leave that operational structure to you.

うん

Yeah.

そこじゃあまず最初は

Well then, first of all...

トークンそのものの参加者

Participants of the token itself.

ゲームがフックになるのかもしれないですけど

It might be that the game becomes a hook.

を増やしていくっていうところからやるわけですね

We will start by increasing it.

うん

Yeah.

そういう感じになって

It turned out that way.

まだ状況点変わってくるかもしれないし

The situation may still change.

うん

Yeah.

もしかしたらそういうトークンから

Maybe it's from such a token.

はい

Yes

またステーブルコインみたいなものも考えるかもしれないよね

They might also consider something like a stablecoin.

うーん

Hmm.

そうなんですね

Is that so?

うん

Yeah.

あそうですか

Oh, I see.

うん

Yeah.

まあこればっかりはねいろんなパターンあるよ

Well, there are various patterns when it comes to this, you know.

同じ仮想通貨でもいろんな展開

Even the same cryptocurrency has various developments.

はい

Yes.

決済に使う展開もあれば

There are also expansions for use in payments.

ええ

Yes.

投資的な展開もあるし

There are also investment developments.

うん

Yeah.

なんていうかな

What should I say?

そうだね

That's right.

なかなかもう貨幣の根本を触るような話で

It's quite a story that touches on the very fundamentals of currency.

うーんそうですよね

Hmm, that's true.

うん

Yeah.

だから

そうだね

That's right.

国がしかやれなかったことが今独自でやるような話じゃない

It's not something that the country could only do, and now it's like we're doing it independently.

うん

Yeah.

なんでそれもそのいろんな法律の中で

Why is that among all those various laws?

はい

Yes

考えながらやっていくっていう

It's about doing while thinking.

うん

Yeah.

まあちょっと面白いんじゃ面白い

Well, it's kind of interesting, isn't it?

そうですね

That's right.

うん

Yeah.

あの思い出すと

When I think back on that

うん

Yeah.

まあ結構亀山さんといろんな企画一緒にやらせていただきましたけど

Well, I've had the opportunity to work on various projects with Mr. Kameyama.

うん

Yeah.

あの2022年頃に

Around 2022

うん

Yeah.

あのweb3を一から勉強しようと思うっていう

I think I will start studying web3 from scratch.

お話をされていって

Please go ahead and talk.

はい

Yes

まあそういう連載をやったじゃないですか

Well, you did have that kind of serialization, didn’t you?

うん

Yeah.

やっぱそこから

I knew it, starting from there.

まあ今こう2年半ぐらいですか

Well, it's been about two and a half years now, right?

うん

Yeah.

経って

Pass.

うん

Yeah.

まあ一つ結実したというか

Well, it seems like something has come to fruition.

やっぱりここの領域面白いなっていう風に思われたわけですか

I see you found this area interesting after all, didn’t you?

そうだね

That's right.

なんていうかな

What should I say?

あの頃よりもスピード感がない

There's no sense of speed compared to back then.

うん

Yeah.

と思ってる

I think so.

はいはいはい

Yes, yes, yes.

あの頃はもうちょっと早くそうなるかなと思ったけど

I thought it would happen a little earlier back then, but...

うんうん

Uh-huh.

まあ一回

Well, once.

まあ山ほど

Well, a mountain of it.

山ほどの若者が入ってきて

A mountain of young people came in.

はい

Yes

山ほどの若者がみんな逃げてって

A mountain of young people are all running away.

みんなAIいってるわけ

Everyone is talking about AI.

まあそう

Well, that's true.

なんかそのイメージありますよね

I kind of have that image, don't you?

うん

Yeah.

あのweb3ブームがちょっと終わって

The web3 boom has somewhat come to an end.

うん

Yeah.

AIブームが始まったみたいなイメージありますけど

It feels like the AI boom has begun.

そうそう

That's right.

で一回バブルはじけたんだけど

The bubble burst once, though.

はい

Yes.

もともと俺はバブルだというのも思ってたから

I originally thought that I was part of the bubble.

はい

Yes

どいつもこいつもweb3嫌がってと思ってたぐらいだったんだけど

I used to think that everyone was reluctant about web3.

はいはい

Yes, yes.

まあ俺の方はまあもうちょっと

Well, I'm doing a bit better.

うん

Yeah.

星を押し付けて

Pressing against the stars.

はい

Yes

うん

Yeah.

俺もほらビジネスの手伝いとか早いとか言うけど

I also say that helping with business is quick and all, but...

まあこのビジネスとはやっぱ10年がかりって考えないと

Well, you have to think of this business as something that takes about ten years.

ならないなっていうのはもともと思ってたから

I thought from the beginning that it wouldn't work out.

うんうん

Uh-huh.

だから一旦バブルはじけてくれたのが

So the bubble has burst for now.

俺からするとやりやすい

From my perspective, it's easy to do.

あ

Ah.

そうだったんですね

I see, that was the case.

うん

Yeah.

だから今も継続してweb3は

So even now, web3 continues to...

あの

Um...

ゆっくりとやってるよ

I'm taking my time.

ああ

Ah.

そんなリリースしたって

Even if you release something like that,

ほらニュースペースも取り上げないじゃん最近

See, the news space hasn't been covering it lately, right?

ね

Isn't it?

だからまあ別にあんま出してないけど

So, well, I haven't really put it out there much anyway.

今はAIってやったほうがまあ

Right now, it's better to use AI, I guess.

そうですね

That's right.

ね

Right?

はい

Yes

web3でもまあ

Well, in web3...

まあまあまあ

Well, well, well.

一般的なその経済メディアが

General economic media

web3の記事よりも