第１回『社会的養護の現場の悩みや願いに一緒に取り組む』ゲスト：無憂樹代表 上村宏樹氏（juju）

自分を生きるポッドキャスト記念すべき第1回目のゲストは

The first guest of the momentous inaugural episode of the "Living Your True Self" podcast is...

非営利型一般社団法人無優柔の代表理事

Representative Director of the Non-Profit General Incorporated Association Muhyujyu.

植村浩二さんにお越しいただきました

Mr. Koji Uemura has come to visit.

植村さんありがとうございます

Thank you, Uemura-san.

呼んでいただいてありがとうございます

Thank you for calling me.

植村浩二です

This is Koji Uemura.

ありがとうございます

Thank you.

普段ジュジュって呼んでいるので

Since I usually call her Juju.

今日もジュジュって呼んじゃっていいですか

Can I call you Juju today too?

もうぜひぜひ呼んでください

Please do invite me for sure!

こっちの方がいいです

This is better.

ありがとうございます

Thank you.

ジュジュとは10年前ぐらいに

About ten years ago, Juju...

インプロっていう即興劇のイベントがあって

There's an improv event called "Impro."

そこから仲良くさせていただいてます

Since then, we've been getting along well.

インプロっていう即興劇もすごい面白いんですが

Improvisational theater, known as "impro," is also really interesting.

ジュジュがチャレンジしているお仕事とか

The jobs that Juju is challenging herself with.

されていることとか

Such things are being done.

本当に素晴らしくて尊敬もしてるし

I truly admire and respect you.

大好きなので

Because I love you so much.

ぜひ1回目に来てほしいと思って

I really want you to come for the first time.

声をかけたら来ていただきました

They came when I called out to them.

本当にありがとうございます

Thank you very much.

記念すべき1回目に呼んでいただいてありがとうございます

Thank you for inviting me to the memorable first time.

それでですね

So, you see...

非営利型一般社団法人無優柔ということなんですけど

It is a non-profit general incorporated association called "Muyujū."

どんな活動なんですか

What kind of activities are there?

そうですね

That's right.

無優柔っていうのは

"Being decisive means..."

私代表させてもらってるんですけれども

I’m representing, but...

いわゆる社会的な活動をしているんですけど

I'm involved in what you might call social activities.

社会的擁護っていうですね

It's called social support.

そういった分野の施設とか機関とかを

Facilities or institutions in such fields

研修したりコンサルしたりする

Conducting training and consulting.

サポートするそういう法人なんですね

It seems that you are a corporation that provides support.

もうちょっと詳しく言うと

To put it a bit more specifically,

どんな施設なんですか

What kind of facility is it?

社会的擁護っていうと

When it comes to social support...

例えば一般的によく聞くと

For example, commonly heard.

児童擁護施設とか

Child welfare facilities, etc.

乳児院とか

Infant home or something like that.

そして家庭で

And at home

育てるのが

It's about nurturing.

困難になって

It has become difficult.

子どもが

Child

児童相談所とか預かって

"Child consultation centers or something like that."

そこで

So, there.

家庭にちょっと今は戻るのは難しいなと思ったら

I thought that it would be a bit difficult to go back home right now.

そういう児童擁護施設とかに

Such children's welfare facilities and so on.

行くわけですね

So you're going, huh?

そういうふうに

In that way.

社会で育てるって言ってるんですけども

They say they are raising (them) in society.

そういった施設とか機関のことを

Such facilities or institutions

社会的擁護という

Social support.

その機関とか施設に対して

Towards that institution or facility.

研修をしたり

Conduct training sessions and so on.

問題が

There is a problem.

困難が起こったらコンサルしたり

If difficulties arise, consult or seek help.

っていうことをやってます

I'm doing that.

そうなんですね

I see.

その無有事を

That untroubled state.

立ち上げたきっかけって

What prompted you to start?

どんなことがあったんですか

What happened?

きっかけで言うとね

To put it simply, it started with...

もうすっごいなんていうのは

It’s really something else.

子どもの頃に戻っちゃう

It makes me feel like I'm going back to my childhood.

はい

Yes

そうそう

That's right.

実はって言うのもいいんだけど

Actually, it's nice to say that, but...

実はもくそもないと思うけど

I don't think it really matters anyway.

僕実家が

My parents' house.

児童擁護施設だったんですよ

It was a children's welfare facility.

そうなんですね

I see.

そうそう

That's right.

で生まれたで

I was born there.

施設の敷地内に

Within the premises of the facility.

うちの実家があったから

Because my family home was there.

子供の頃からずっと一緒に

Together since childhood.

そういう施設の子たちと生活

Living with the children in such facilities.

暮らしてきてて

Having lived so far

学校も同じだし

It's the same with school.

朝起きて

Waking up in the morning.

それから一緒にいろいろ活動したりして

After that, we did various activities together.

学校行って帰ってきて

I went to school and came back.

宿題して

Do your homework.

飯食ってみたいな

I want to eat.

帰る寝るときはまた自宅に戻るみたいな感じで

It feels like I'll return home when it's time to sleep again.

ずっと

Always

へえ

Oh really?

そういう感じで

In that kind of way.

子供たちと一緒に生活してきたんですね

You've been living with children, haven't you?

じゃあもうずっと

Well then, for a long time now...

人生のともにあったって感じなんですね

It feels like it has been a part of my life.

当たり前のように

As if it were only natural.

そうですね

That's right.

それであったんですけど

That was it, though.

当時は

At that time

なんていうかな

What should I say?

すごく怖くて

It's really scary.

怖い

Scary.

もうねなんていうかな

Well, how should I put this...

昔

Long ago.

今はだいぶ施設とか

The facilities have improved quite a bit now.

落ち着いてるところも多いと思うんですけど

I think there are many calm places.

昔は本当に

In the past, it was really...

結構

Pretty good.

ヤンキーバイバリーのお兄ちゃんとか

Like the yankee brother or something.

へえ

Oh, really?

そうなんですね

I see.

すごい

Amazing

すごいなんか

That's amazing, somehow.

なんていうかな

I wonder what to say.

パワーを持った人たちが

People who have power

いっぱい周り来てて

There are many people around.

目が合っただけで

Just by making eye contact.

ツボかけられたりとか

Like being hit in the pressure points.

そうとかね

Is that so?

笑って

Smile.

トモンだと喋ってたら

I was talking to Tomon.

後ろから殴りかけられたりとか

Being attacked from behind or something like that.

へえ

Oh really?

そんなことがあるような

It seems like something like that could happen.

もちろんね

Of course.

普段楽しく遊んだりとかね

Usually, we have fun playing and such.

やっぱこう

I knew it would be like this.

施設って結構敷地があるので

The facility has quite a large area.

その中で一緒にみんな野球して

Everyone is playing baseball together there.

本当にちっちゃい小学生から高校生から

From really small elementary school students to high school students.

一緒に野球したりとか

Like playing baseball together or something.

楽しいんですけど

It's fun, but...

でも

But

それ

That.

本当に怖いことも起こる

Truly frightening things can happen.

すごい経験されてますね

You have had an amazing experience.

本当にありとあらゆることが

Truly, everything.

起こりましたね

It happened, didn't it?

だから

So.

僕自身は

As for myself

だから

So.

なんていうか

How should I put this?

学校から帰っても

Even when I get home from school

結局施設の

In the end, the facility's...

同年代の子と遊ぶし

I play with kids my age.

ずっと一緒だったんだけども

We’ve always been together, you know.

でもやっぱり怖いのもあり

But it's still a bit scary.

当時何が起こってるかも

What was happening at that time?

わからなかったっていうのもあって

I couldn't understand it, that's one reason.

やっぱり施設

After all, it's the facility.

怖いなって思って

I think it's scary.

僕はあんまり近づきたくなかったんです

I didn't really want to get too close.

正直言うと

To be honest,

そうそう

That's right.

中学校で寮に入って

I entered a dormitory in middle school.

そこから

From there

施設

Facility

の子たちとは

with the children

ちょっと関係が少し

It's a little related.

途切れてしまったんですね

It seems to have been interrupted.

自分自身は

Myself

なんていうかな

What should I say?

自分の道としては

As for my own path

当時音楽が好きだったから

Because I liked music at that time.

音楽の道進もうかとか

Shall I pursue the path of music?

企業化になろうかみたいなところで

Whether to become a corporation or something like that.

勉強してたんだけども

I was studying, but...

でもやっぱり

But still...

変わった僕は変わった人間なので

Because I've changed, I am a changed person.

心理学に

In psychology.

高校の頃興味あったんですね

You were interested in it during high school, weren’t you?

哲学とか心理学に

To philosophy and psychology.

人の心って何だろうとかね

What is the human heart, I wonder?

なんでいるんだろうっていうのがあって

I wonder why I'm here.

それ心理学で勉強

That's studied in psychology.

勉強っていうかね

It's not so much about studying.

いろんな本読んだりとかして

I've been reading various books and such.

やってたんですけども

I was doing it, but...

でもねそこで

But there...

自分が

Myself

一緒に遊んだりとかしてた

We used to play together.

子供たちと

With the children.

同じようなことが書いてあったんですよね

It was written something similar, wasn't it?

なるほど

I see.

大学で心理学を学び

Studying psychology at university.

で

So.

その時に気づいたのが

What I realized at that time was

あそっかって

I see...

いろいろなんか

Various things

自分がね

It's about me.

いろいろ怖い目になったりとか

I've had various frightening experiences.

なんかちょっと

Somehow a little...

楽しいこともあるけれども

There are fun things, but...

なんか嫌な目になったりとか

It's like I've gotten a bad look or something.

なんかそういったこと

Something like that.

いろいろなことが起こるっていうのは

A lot of different things happen.

なんか

Something.

理由があったんだなっていうのが

I see that there was a reason.

分かったんですね

I see you understand.

なるほど

I see.

そういうことなんだって思って

I think that's how it is.

うんうんうん

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

うんうん

Uh-huh.

それでどんどんそっちの道に

So, little by little, down that path.

のめり込んでいくっていうか

It's more like becoming engrossed.

どんどんそういうことを

Keep doing those kinds of things more and more.

学びながら

While learning

やっていくうちに

As we go along.

そうそうそう

That's right, that's right, that's right.

昔ね

A long time ago.

同年代の

Same age group.

季節の子たちと

With the children of the seasons

子たちっていうか仲間と

With the children, or rather with the companions.

連絡を取ったりするわけなんですけど

I get in touch with them.

そこでねいろいろ話を聞いたりとかするわけですよ

So, I listen to various stories there.

うんうんうん

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

そうすると

In that case.

ある

There is.

仲間がいて

Having companions.

なかなかうまくね

Not bad at all.

やっぱりその家族とかに仲間とうまくいかないんだって話をしてると

When you talk about how things aren't going well with friends or family...

その背後によくよく話を聞いてると

If you listen closely to what’s behind that,

今でいう虐待とかトラウマがあるんだなっていうのが分かったんです

I understood that there are things like abuse and trauma that we would now call that.

ん

Hmm.

でそれを話してるうちに

And while we were talking about that...

そのこと

That matter.

あそういうことだよねっていうのが分かって

Oh, I understand that that's how it is.

でなんていうかな

So, what should I say?

その子はそこの家を出たとかねで出たりとかね

That child left that house and went out, or something like that.

いろんなことをやったんだけど

I did various things, but...

そういうことをしていくうちに

As we continue to do such things

そっかって

I see.

本人としては

As for the person himself/herself,

彼本人としては

As for him personally

全然そういうことを

Not at all like that.

今で言うならば虐待とかあるけど

These days we might call it abuse, but...

気づかないし

I don't notice.

わからないし

I don't understand.

そこらへんって

Around there, huh?

そのまま

Just like that.

過ごして苦しんで

Suffering through the days.

また家庭を作って苦しんで

"Creating a family again and suffering."

っていうところがあるってことは

That means there is a certain aspect.

やっぱりつらいよねって思って

I thought, "It's really tough, isn't it?"

そこで

So, there.

そういうことに

That kind of thing.

自分が経験したことでもあるから

Because it's something I have experienced myself.

そこに関わっていこう

Let's get involved with that.

っていうふうに思って

"I think that way."

なんていうかな

What should I say?

そういう勉強じゃないけれども

It's not that kind of study, but...

そういうことを学び出したのが

That's when I started to learn about those things.

きっかけの最初になるんですよ

It's the first trigger.

なるほど

I see.

いやいやそうなんですね

Oh really, is that so?

聞いてしまいました

I ended up hearing it.

でもすごい

But it's amazing.

なんか必然というか

It's like something inevitable.

驚きました

I was surprised.

幼少期から

Since childhood

その環境と

That environment and

その環境から一度離れて

Step away from that environment for a moment.

また知識と出会って

Meeting knowledge again.

深めてっていうことが

It's about deepening.

すごい感動しました

I was really moved.

そうねやっぱり

That's true, after all.

強烈だった

It was intense.

さっきね

Just now.

後ろから笑って

Laughing from behind.

笑ってたら後ろから殴られてきたっていう

I got hit from behind while I was laughing.

お兄ちゃんがいたんですけど

I had an older brother.

彼もね

He too.

普段は仲良かったりするんですけどね

We usually get along well.

彼が実はね

Actually, he...

僕が大学

I am in university.

卒業してからかな

Maybe since graduation.

自死しちゃったんですね

It seems that you took your own life.

そうそうそうそう

Yes, yes, yes, yes.

で

So,

一回そこの地元から出て

"Once, step out of the local area."

県外に就職したんだけども

I got a job outside the prefecture.

うまくいかなくて

It's not going well.

ってのがあって

That's what it is.

戻ってきてわざわざ

"Come back just to..."

そこの施設の裏山で

Behind the facility's hill.

首吊ってたんです

I was hanging.

でそこの

So there.

その遺書の中に

In that will.

あの

Um...

本当になんか自分が

I really feel like I am...

なんで生まれてきたんだ

Why was I born?

なんで自分を産んだんだって

"Why did you give birth to me?"

そんなにね

Not that much.

こんな風な目に合わなくちゃいけない

"I have to go through something like this."

なんで自分を産んだんだって

Why was I born?

それから施設も

And then the facility too.

施設に対する恨み事いっぱい書いてあったんですよ

There were lots of complaints written about the facility.

そうだった

I see.

そう

Yes.

でも

But

施設に対する恨み事たくさん書いてあるけど

There are many complaints written about the facility, but...

施設に戻ってきて

Come back to the facility.

うんうんうん

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

亡くなってるんです

They have passed away.

うん

Yeah.

だからその時のやっぱり

So at that time, after all...

あんなに

So much

衝撃的な

Shocking

あんなに怖いけど

It's so scary, but...

強くって

Strong and tough.

なんか何でもできそうな

It seems like I can do anything.

当時の僕の

At that time, my

僕は兄ちゃん姉さんとか

I have an older brother and sister.

兄ちゃん姉さんが

Big brother and big sister.

そういう気持ちなんだって思った時に

When I thought that's how you feel.

やっぱりその裏に背後にある気持ちを考えると

When I think about the feelings that are underlying it all...

これこのままじゃいかんよねっていう

This can't continue like this, can it?

こうやっていっぱい苦しんでる人がいて

There are so many people suffering like this.

言えずに

Unable to say.

最悪こう

The worst like this.

自信になったりとかするわけじゃないですか

It can give you confidence, can't it?

そこはやっぱり

That's definitely the place.

ちょっとでも

Just a little.

知ってるものから声を上げていかないとね

We have to raise our voices starting from what we know.

っていうのがあったんですよね

That was something that happened, you know.

なるほどなるほど

I see, I see.

うーん

Hmm.

ねえ今はあの

Hey, right now...

表面的に見えてることだけで判断しちゃう

Judging only based on what is visible on the surface.

教育現場とかも多いから

Because it's often found in educational settings.

本当に

Really.

ジュジュガーの活動っていうのは

The activities of Jujugar are...

本当必要とされてるなって思うし

I really feel that I'm needed.

私自身もね

Me too.

家庭でいろいろあったり

There have been various things happening at home.

ちょっと施設にいたりした

I was at the facility for a little while.

あの経験もあるので

Because I have that experience.

もう今なんかすごく

Right now, it's really...

やっぱり深く共感してるんですけど

I definitely resonate deeply with that.

もう本当に

Really now.

うまく言葉にならないけど

I can't quite put it into words, but...

もうできる限り

As much as possible now.

応援したいなって思いました

I thought I wanted to support you.

ありがとうございます

Thank you.

今そんな

Not now.

本当に深い思いと

Truly deep feelings and

あと経験と人生の中で起こったこと

Also, things that happened in my experiences and life.

全部がこう

Everything is like this.

点が全部線になって

All the points become a line.

本当役割を生きてるなって

I really feel like I'm living my true role.

感じてるんですけど

I'm feeling it.

そんな仕事をされてますが

You are doing such work, aren't you?

その仕事で大切にしてることって

What do you value in that job?

何ですか

What is it?

あのね

You know,

その仕事を

That job.

大切にしてることで言えば

Speaking of things that are important to me...

実際に

In reality

仕事にその仕事を

That job at work.

ついてみて思ったんですけど

I thought about it after I experienced it.

僕も

Me too.

施設で働いたりしたんですね

You worked at a facility, right?

うまくいかないんですよ

It's not going well.

うまくいかない

It's not going well.

頭では

In my head.

子供にそういう背景があるんだなとか

It seems that the child has such a background.

今その怒りの気持ちで

Right now, with that feeling of anger.

こういうことがあるんだなとかね

I guess these things happen, huh?

そういうのを頭で学んではいるんですけども

I have learned about that in my head, but...

実際に関わると

When you actually get involved,

そのことの関係性が

The relationship regarding that matter.

じゃあうまくいきますかって

So, will it go well?

なかなかうまくいかないんですよね

It's not going very well, you know.

ぶつかったり衝突したりとか

Colliding or crashing into something.

時には暴言

Sometimes abusive language.

あぶせられたりとか

Such as being abduced.

子供から無視されたりとかもあるし

Sometimes I get ignored by the kids.

こっちもやっぱり人間だから

After all, we're humans too.

ついついやっぱうまくいかなくて

I just can't help but feel that things aren't going well after all.

カッとなることもあるし

Sometimes I can get angry.

そんなことはうまくいかない

That won't work out.

なかなか

Quite a lot / pretty good / rather difficult (depending on context).

なんかね

You know...

なんか

I don't know.

苦しいっていうか

It's not so much that it's painful...

最初に来てくるのが苦しいなっていうことを

It's tough to be the first to arrive.

やっぱりこう

As I thought, this is how it is.

考えてる中で

While I'm thinking.

なんかこう

Somehow like this.

二つあって

There are two.

一つは

One is

その子と

That child

関わる

Involve

その人と関わるときに

When interacting with that person.

なんかすごいやっぱり

It's something amazing, after all.

当事者

Parties involved

としての

as a

声を

Voice

尊重するっていうのすごく大事だなって思って

I think it's really important to show respect.

あの

Um...

結局なんか

In the end, something.

自分たちが

We ourselves

なんかこう

Kind of like this...

相手を

The opponent.

なんていうかな

What should I say?

こうケアするものみたいな

It seems like something that can be cared for like this.

ことであったりとか

or things like that

何かこう

Something like this.

自分たちがいいと思うから

Because we think it's good.

こうやるみたいな形で

In a way like this.

なんかどうしてもついつい上になってしまったりとか

I can't help but end up on top somehow.

勝手にこう考えちゃったりするところが

I can't help but think like this.

やっぱあったんですよね

I knew it was there.

でも大切なのって

But what's important is...

本人当事者が

The person involved.

どう感じてるのか

How are you feeling about it?

どう思ってるのか

What do you think?

例えば

For example

親からそういう周知を受けて

Having received such information from my parents

親からすごく

From my parents a lot.

辛みがあってると

It's spicy.

そういう親許せないよねみたいな形で

It's like, I can't forgive parents like that, you know?

極端な話ですよね

That's an extreme way to put it, isn't it?

思っちゃうんだけども

I can't help but think that way.

でも本人としては

But as for the person themselves...

そういう親も大好きだったりするわけ

I actually love parents like that too.

そうですよね

That's right.

大好きだけども

I love you, but...

でも憎しみもあるし

But there is also hatred.

でも大好きだけど

But I really love you.

その過度で苦しんでる中で

In the midst of that excess, I am suffering.

こちらが逆調ぶって

Here we are, pretending to go against the trend.

なんか言っても響かないわけですよ

No matter what I say, it just doesn't resonate.

だから本当に本人の声

So it's really the person's own voice.

当事者の本人の声を聞くっていうことが

Hearing the voice of the person involved.

すごく大事で

It's really important.

本人がどうしたいのかとか

What the person wants to do, or something like that.

どうやっていきたいのか

How do you want to go?

どう生きていきたいのかっていうのは

How do you want to live your life?

本人に聞くっていうのはすごく重要なんだなって思って

I think it's really important to ask the person directly.

またその上で知識とか

Furthermore, knowledge and so on.

いろいろなものは乗っかるけれども

Many things may pile up, but...

そこがなかったら

If that place didn't exist.

なんか本当に

Really something.

なんかテクニックとか知識とかっていうのも

"Things like techniques or knowledge..."

本当に形だけのものになっちゃうなっていう風に思うので

I think it will really end up being just a formality.

だから本当に

So really

相手の本人の意見を尊重するっていうこと

Respecting the other person's own opinions.

そうすると

Then, if that's the case...

自分も当事者なんですよね

I am also one of the parties involved.

そうなると

In that case.

当事者だから相手だけが主役みたいな

Because we are parties involved, it feels like only the other person is the main character.

そういうことではなくて

It's not about that.

逆転ではなくて

It's not a reversal.

自分もそこの一緒に生きる

I will also live there together.

共に生きる当事者であって

As parties who live together.

その当事者と当事者が

That party and the party involved.

どう尊重し合って

How to respect each other.

生きてる性を作っていくのかみたいな

It's like creating a living sexuality.

そういったところがすごい重要なんだと思うし

I think those kinds of aspects are really important.

そこをやっぱ大切にしなくちゃいけないなっていう風に

I think we really need to cherish that.

思うのが一つです

I have one thought.

本当に

Really.

なんか今聞いてて

I was just listening to something.

私が当事者として聞いてて

As someone involved, I was listening.

本当にこういう人が増えたらいいなって思いました

I really think it would be great if more people like this increased.

私も子供の頃

When I was a child too

いろいろあって

Due to various circumstances.

なんか被害者みたいな扱いをされるのが

I feel like I'm being treated like a victim.

すごく嫌だったんですよ

I really hated it.

嫌で

I don't like it.

いまだにかわいそうっていう言葉が大嫌いなんですよ

I still really hate the word "pitiful."

死ぬほど嫌いなんですよ

I hate it to the point of wanting to die.

だけど相手は優しさで

But the other person is with kindness.

優しさとか思いやりで

With kindness and consideration.

かわいそうって言ってくれてるから

Because you're saying it's pitiful.

そこで

So, then.

何も言えない

I can't say anything.

だけどすごく嫌なんです

But I really dislike it.

相手は優しい気持ちで言ってるからもう

The other person is saying it with kind intentions, so just...

気持ちを処理できなくて

I can't handle my emotions.

もう本当に

Really now.

あの頃出会いたかった

I wish I had met you back then.

そうだね

That's right.

やってたら

If I were doing it.

僕もね

Me too.

昔いっぱいいっぱい失敗して

I made a lot of mistakes in the past.

今ようやく至ったっていう感じだけどね

It feels like I've finally arrived.

私も実際

I actually do too.

子供たちにたくさん

A lot for the children.

私も

Me too.

学童保育の先生とかやっていて

I'm working as an after-school care teacher.

いっぱい関わり失敗したし

I got involved a lot and failed.

もっとこうしていればよかった

I should have done it more like this.

今思うこといっぱいあるので

I have a lot on my mind right now.

プロセスですよねお互いね

It's a process for both of us, isn't it?

でもこれが

But this is...

分かる人本当増やしたいなって

I really want to increase the number of people who understand.

当事者としても

As a party involved

教育者って

What does it mean to be an educator?

立場でも両方の立場で

From both positions.

今すごく深く共感しました

I deeply empathized with it just now.

感動した

I was moved.

すごい

Amazing

ありがとうございます

Thank you.

イエスアンドって書いてあるけど

It says "yes and."

これは

This is

もう一つ大変にしてくるのは

What makes it even more difficult is...

もう一つがイエスアンドなんですよ

The other one is "yes and."

これイエスアンドってのは

This "Yes, and" is...

インプロの考え方で

In terms of the concept of improv.

インプロって即興だから

Improv is spontaneous.

即興って何やってもいいですよ

Improvisation means you can do whatever you want.

どんなことをオファーしてもいいですよ

You can offer anything you like.

っていうのがあるんだけど

There's something like that, though.

でも一つだけルールがあって

But there's just one rule.

それがイエスアンドなんですよ

That's the essence of "Yes, and."

どんなオファーでも

Any offer.

どんな相手のどんなオファーでも

Any offer from any opponent.

一旦受け止めて

Let's take a moment to absorb it.

そして自分がアンド

And then I am And...

自分のアイデアを乗せていく

Putting my ideas into action.

これによって成り立っている

This is what it is based on.

これ語りだすと奥深いので

This is quite profound once I start talking about it.

すごい30分以上かかる

Wow, it takes more than 30 minutes.

また来てください

Please come again.

何かっていうと

What do you mean?

そうやって当事者として

As a person involved in that way

生きようと思ったとしても

Even if I think about wanting to live.

すごく大変だったり

It was really difficult.

辛かったりとか

It was tough and difficult.

自分の言い方も

My own way of speaking.

間違ってるんじゃないかとか

Isn't it wrong or something?

あれは相手をね

That's for the opponent.

やっぱりダメだって否定してしまったりとか

As expected, I ended up denying it.

どうしても否定っていうのが

I just can't help but deny it.

入ってくるんですよ

It comes in.

それはね

That is it.

どんなに頭で分かってても

No matter how much I understand it in my head.

やっぱりもうついついこう

After all, I can't help but...

言っちゃう

I'll say it.

そして自分を否定しちゃう

And then I end up denying myself.

なんで俺あんなこと

Why did I do something like that?

俺バカだなとか

I'm such an idiot, huh?

どうしようもないなとか

I can't do anything about it.

これ向いてないなとかね

I'm not good at this, you know.

もう一回ね

One more time, okay?

それこそ本当に幼児さん

That's truly a toddler.

ちっちゃい子を担当して

In charge of the little ones.

最初入所してきた日に

On the day I first entered.

朝のね

In the morning.

8時

8 o'clock

ご飯食べて8時から

I'll eat dinner at 8 o'clock.

昼の12時

12 noon

次の担当の方が来る前に

Before the next person in charge arrives.

ずーっと泣かれてたんですよ

They were crying the whole time.

ずーっとその子泣いてて

That child has been crying the whole time.

うわーってなって

I was taken aback.

何やつも泣いてて

"Whatever it is, it's crying."

でもそれの時は

But at that time.

もうどうしようかと思って

I was wondering what to do.

もう俺向いてないわー

I'm just not cut out for this anymore.

みたいな感じで

Like that.

そう思ったりとかして

I sometimes think like that.

そんなことがね

That's the kind of thing.

あったりするんですけど

It sometimes happens.

でもなんか

But somehow...

その中で大切なのって

What's important among them is...

どう状況をイエスするのか

How to say yes to the situation?

イエスって

What is "yes"?

なんていうかな

What should I say?

そこを受け止めて

Accept it there.

なるほどとか

I see, or something like that.

そうきたかとか

So that's how it is, huh?

そういうことねとかね

I see, that kind of thing.

いいねみたいな形で

In a way like "good, right?"

受け止めて

Catch it.

アンドじゃあ自分

And then, myself.

受け止めるだけだったらね

If it were just about accepting it.

何もできないので

Because I can't do anything.

それがいい時もあるけど

There are times when that's good, but...

アンドじゃあ自分が

And then, what about myself?

どういうアクションができるんだろうか

I wonder what kind of actions can be taken.

っていうことを考えていくのが

It's about thinking about that.

大切だなと思ったんですね

I thought it was important.

例えば子供が

For example, a child...

自分に暴言を吐いてきたと

They have been verbally abusive towards me.

うわーって吐いてきたと

I just threw up.

へこんだりする

To be depressed or to feel down.

っていう

It means "I mean" or "that is."

なっちゃうんだけども

It ends up happening, you know.

なるほど今

I see, now.

この子は

This child is

この暴言を吐くって

This is uttering abusive language.

どんな意味があるのかなとか

I wonder what it means.

それだけやっぱり

That's just how it is.

言いたいことは

What I want to say is

溜まってんのかなとか

I wonder if it's piling up.

あれその時へこんだとしても

Even if he was depressed at that time.

へこんだ自分に対して

Towards my depressed self

あーそっか

Ah, I see.

ちゃんと自分が受け止めたから

Because I properly accepted it.

へこんでんだな

You're feeling down, aren't you?

みたいな形で

In a way like that

一旦イエスした後に

After saying yes once,

じゃあどうしていこうか

So, what should we do?

みたいなのが

Like that.

考えられるようになると

When you become able to think.

ちょっと気持ちが楽になってくる

I start to feel a little more at ease.

っていうか

Well, you know...

もう一回やってみようとか

Let's try it one more time.

もう一回話しかけてみようとか

Let's try talking to them one more time.

そういったことができるようになったな

It seems that I've become able to do such things.

っていうのがあるので

That's why it exists.

このイエスアンドって

What is this YesAnd?

すごく大事だなっていう風に

I think it's really important.

思ってます

I am thinking.

これ一人じゃなかなか難しくて

It's quite difficult to do this alone.

イエスアンド

Yes and

してくれる

Do it for me.

人とか仲間とかが

People and friends.

必要なんだと思うんだけどね

I think it's necessary.

イエスアンド大切だなって

Yes, and that is important.

思います

I think.

なるほどなるほど

I see, I see.

いいですね

That's nice.

私も今仕事で

I'm also at work right now.

ありのままを需要するっていうのを

To accept things as they are.

すごく大事にしていて

I really cherish it.

イエスアンドにすごく近いなって

I feel really close to "yes and."

思いました

I thought.

なんか私とは

It’s something about me.

全然意見が違うし

We have completely different opinions.

全く愛入れないけど

I don't care at all.

あなたはそう感じてるのねとか

I see you feel that way.

私とは違うけど

It's different from me, but...

あなたはそう考えてるのね

I see that you think that way.

っていう風に思えば

If you think of it that way

心から

From the heart.

その表面的な

That superficial چیز

心から

From the heart.

あなたはそうなのねって意味で

It means "That's what you mean, right?"

そうなんだねって言える

I can say, "I see."

だから相手がどんな意見を言おうが

So no matter what opinion the other party expresses,

そうなんだね

I see.

そう考えてるんだね

I see you're thinking that way.

私はねって言うと

When I say "I"

相手もちゃんと聞いてくれる

The other person listens properly too.

それを結構

That's quite something.

いやそれはねって

Well, that's because...

話し始めちゃう人が多くって

There are many people who start talking.

いやって言われたったに

I was told no.

心のシャッター閉まっちゃって

The shutter of my heart has closed.

対話にならないので

Because it's not a conversation.

結構

That's fine.

そうなんだね

Is that so?

そう思ってるんだね

I see you think that way.

って受け止めて

"Take it that way."

から私はこう考えるよって

So I think this way.

相手も

The other party too.

あそうなんだね

Oh, I see.

私はねって言って

I'm saying, "I am."

対話が続くし

The conversation continues.

二人の意見とは

What the two people's opinions are.

全く違う

Completely different.

なんか第三の意見が

It seems like there's a third opinion.

生まれたりとかして

"Like being born and such."

すごく対話が

The conversation is amazing.

クリエイティブになるなってことを

Don't become creative.

現場ですごく感じているので

I am feeling it strongly on-site.

私はそこを大切にしてるんですけど

I cherish that place.

それが今の

That's now.

イエスアンドとすごくつながったな

I really connected with Yes And.

っていう風に感じました

That's how I felt.

そうだね

That's right.

つながってるよね

We're connected, right?

結構いろいろね

Quite a few things, huh?

つながってますね

We're connected, aren't we?

ありがとうございます

Thank you.

ではちょっと最後の質問なんですが

Well, here's a final question.

今までこうしてね

Until now, like this.

やってきたこととか

What has been done or what has come.

大切にしてることとか

Things I treasure.

聞いてきたんですが

I've been listening to it.

どんなところを目指して

What kind of place are you aiming for?

どんなビジョンを持って

What kind of vision do you have?

今やられてるんでしょうか

Are you being done now?

そうだね

That's right.

ビジョンっていうのは

What I mean by vision is

無優柔っていうのは

"Being undecided means..."

そういう無優柔っていう

That's called being indecisive.

気が本当にあるんですけども

I really do care about it, though.

そうなんですね

I see.

そうそう実はあるんです

Yes, actually there is.

無優柔っていう気が

I have a feeling of being decisive.

言葉作ったのかと思った

I thought you made up the word.

本当にあるんです

It really exists.

無優柔っていう気が

I feel like there’s no indecisiveness.

でもだからそういう

But that's why.

なんか

Somehow

自分が法人作るときに

When I create a corporation.

団体作るときに

When forming a group

何か木の名前がいいな

I would like a nice name for a tree.

と思ってたんですけど

I thought so, but...

それは何かっていうと

What that means is

みんなが集えるっていうか

It's like everyone can gather together.

安らげるっていうか

It's not so much about feeling at ease...

いろいろね

Various things.

頑張ったりとか

Doing one's best or trying hard.

大変な時があったりとかね

There have been difficult times, you know.

時には乱されたりとかね

Sometimes it gets disturbed, you know.

落ち込む時もあると思うけども

I think there are times when you feel down, but...

でもみんなが

But everyone is...

そういう木の下で休めるように

So that you can rest under such a tree.

行ける場みたいな

A place you can go.

そういうのがあったらいいな

It would be nice if there were something like that.

っていう風に思ったんです

I thought it in that way.

で

Then

なんかそれが

Somehow that's...

本当にその木が

That tree, really...

どんどん大きくなっていって

It keeps getting bigger and bigger.

その木の

That tree's

木の何ていうかな

What do you call a tree?

あれの木陰っていうかね

It's more like the shade of that tree.

で休めるっていうか

You could say it's a way to take a break.

それが大きくなって

It has grown large.

どんどん広がっていって

It keeps spreading more and more.

社会全体が

The entire society

安らげるような

Like a place where one can find peace.

そういった場になればいいな

I hope it becomes such a place.

っていう風に思って

I think of it that way.

その無優柔っていうのを

That so-called indecisiveness.

作ったので

Because I made it.

だから本当にみんなが困ったりとか

So it's really that everyone is having a hard time.

それこそね社会的に困ったり

That's precisely when one encounters social difficulties.

子供と関係困ったりとか

Trouble with relationships involving children.

辛くなったりとか

It gets tough or something like that.

そういうのが

Things like that.

もちろん嬉しい時も来てほしいですけど

Of course, I want you to come when you're happy too.

その時に集って

Gathered at that time.

そこで話したりとか

So we talked there and such.

みんなが笑顔になる

Everyone will smile.

それでまた戻っていったりとか

So I went back again and again.

一緒に活動したりとかできるっていう

We can do activities together and such.

そういったところが

Such places are

場所があるのがいいな

It's nice to have a place.

っていう風に思ってるし

I think of it that way.

そうすることによって

By doing so

目指すのは

What I aim for is

僕の中では大切なのは

What is important to me is

子供の笑顔だなと思ってて

I was thinking it's a child's smile.

ずっと僕

Always me.

ノーチルドリームイザートスマイル

No chilled dream is a (smile).

ってずっと言ってるんですけど

I've been saying that all along.

子供の笑顔を

Children's smiles.

どう作るのか

How to make it?

どうなんていうかな

How should I put it?

社会がね

Society, you know.

そういう子供が笑顔でいられるような

So that such children can smile.

社会にしていくのかっていうのが

Whether to transform society or not.

すごく重要で

Very important.

そこを

There.

目指していきたいなっていう風に

I want to aim for that.

思ってます

I am thinking.

もう共感しかないです

I can only empathize.

ありがとうございます

Thank you.

なんかね

You know, it feels like...

手伝いたいです

I want to help.

ぜひ手伝ってください

Please help me.

なんかできることありますか

Is there anything I can do?

でもこうやって

But like this

お話をしたりとかして

Like talking or something like that.

そういった考えが広まっていったりとか

Such ideas have spread.

っていうこと自体そのものが

The very thing that is being said

その活動の

That activity's

その気を大きくしていく活動だと思うし

I believe it's an activity that amplifies that feeling.

そういう仲間を増やしていくっていうのは

To increase such friends.

すごく大切だなって思うので

I think it’s really important.

まず仲間になってくれる

First, will you join me?

嬉しいです

I'm happy.

仲間になれて嬉しいです

I'm glad to be part of the team.

私も子供の笑顔が

I also love children's smiles.

すごく大事だなと思って

I think it's really important.

子供はどうしたら笑顔になるかって

How can we make children smile?

私両親がすごく仲悪くて

My parents have a really bad relationship.

憎しみあっていて

Hating each other.

顔色ばっか伺って

Always looking at your face.

とにかく親を笑わせようとしてたんですよね

Anyway, I was trying to make my parents laugh.

子供ってみんな

All children are like that.

親を喜ばせたいっていうのが

"I want to make my parents happy."

DNA的に入ってる気がするんですよ

I feel like it's in my DNA.

私だけじゃなくって

Not just me.

だから大人が本当に

So adults really...

自分らしく生きていれば

If you live as yourself.

子供は

The child is.

自動的に

Automatically

子供はいじらなくても

Even without teasing the children.

自動的に伸び伸びするので

It automatically stretches out.

大人たちが本当に

Adults really

なんていうのか

What should I say?

心豊かに

With a rich heart.

心がこう

The heart is like this.

うまく言えないんですけど

I can't express it well, but...

自分らしく生きていればいいかなと思って

I think it's fine to just live in my own way.

私はそれを応援することで

I will support that.

子供は

The child is

ほっとけばいいみたいな

It’s like saying you can just leave it be.

そうだね

That's right.

すごく同感で

I totally agree.

先ほどのトージャーの話もそうだけど

It's similar to the story about Tojaa earlier.

子供の笑顔が大切だからって

Because children's smiles are precious.

子供を一生懸命笑顔にするのじゃなくて

Instead of desperately trying to make the child smile,

自分が笑顔になれるように

So that I can smile.

笑顔になれるって

It makes you smile.

自分が笑顔になれるように

So that I can smile.

自分のやりたいことやったりとか

Doing what I want to do.

大切なことやったりとか

Doing important things.

そういったことをして目指す中で

In striving to achieve such things

子供と一緒に生きていく中で

Living together with children.

自然に笑顔ってできていく

A smile comes naturally.

と思うので

I think so.

そういったことができればいいのかなって

I wonder if it would be nice if we could do such things.

本当にそうですね

That's really true.

こういうふうに思っている人も

There are people who think like this too.

どんどん増えてつながっていっているので

It's increasing and connecting more and more.

時代はどんどん変わっているな

Times are changing rapidly.

というふうに感じます

I feel that way.

今日は

Hello today.

本当に素敵なお話をありがとうございました

Thank you for the really wonderful story.

心から応援して

I support you from the bottom of my heart.

します

I will do it.

最後に何かお知らせとかあったら

If you have any final announcements or anything else to share.

ぜひ教えてください

Please let me know.

そうなんですよ

That's right.

先ほど言った

I mentioned it earlier.

イエスアンドの僕の原型だった

It was my original form of "Yes, and."

インプロの

Improvisation

即興劇のショーを

An improv theater show.

4つやでやるんですね

It's going to be four, huh?

それが6月26日の

That is on June 26th.

日中に

During the day

アラジンってあるじゃないですか

There’s something called Aladdin, right?

アラビアナイトの

Arabian Nights

話を題材に

Taking the story as the theme.

即興劇をやれていくっていう

It's about being able to perform improv theater.

そういうのをやるので

Because I do those kinds of things.

もしよかったら

If it's okay with you.

ぜひ見に来てください

Please come and see it.

どこに

Where?

わかるんですか

Do you understand?

こちら

Here.

出ない

Not coming out.

ポッドキャストの説明に出るかも

It might appear in the podcast description.

26日の昼間だけじゃなくて

Not just during the day on the 26th.

他の曜日に

On other days

僕は他の曜日は出れないんですけど

I can't make it on other days.

他の曜日も

Other days as well.

23日、23日、24日、25日もやっているので

It will also be open on the 23rd, 23rd, 24th, and 25th.

もし興味があって

If you're interested,

都合つく人は

Those who can adjust their schedule.

連絡ください

Please contact me.

こちらに

Over here.

はい

Yes

ありがとうございます

Thank you.

ではでは

Well then.

ボロボロやん

It's all torn up.

最後

The end.

ボロボロ

Tattered.

ボロボロボロ

Boro Boro Boro