009 管理職など40歳、50歳、60歳以上に衝撃かも！？ 10代、20代って「がんばる」の意味も、必要も、共感も、ぜーんぜん無いです！！！

みなさんこんにちは

Hello everyone.

今日もサンポストの時間がやってまいりました

It’s time for Sanpost again today.

実は前回雑談さんに来てますということで

Actually, I came to chat last time.

ご紹介の収録を撮ったんですけれども

I recorded the introduction, however...

今日はここまた雑談さんでお話をしています

Today, I am talking here again with the chat people.

みやみさん今日は何のテーマでお話ししましょうか

What theme shall we talk about today, Miyami-san?

今日はですね

Today is...

頑張るってどういうことっていうことについて

About what it means to do your best.

ビールを飲みながらお話ししていこうと思います

I think I'll have a conversation while drinking a beer.

出た!頑張る!謎のテーマ頑張る

I did it! I'll do my best! I'll do my best with the mysterious theme!

これですね私が常々いろんな人たちにお話をしていて

This is what I often talk about with various people.

かつですねどちらかというと若い人というよりは

Well, rather than young people, it's more like...

若い人を指導する側管理する側

Those in charge of guiding and managing young people.

リーダーとしてついてきてもらいたいと思っている

I want you to follow me as a leader.

今の40代50代もうちょっと上の60代の人たちにも

To those in their 40s and 50s now, and also to those in their 60s.

ぜひ聞いてもらいたいというそういうテーマなんですよ

It's a theme that I really want you to hear about.

頑張るの正体って何?みたいな話なんですけど

What is the true nature of trying your best? It's that kind of conversation.

よくよく突き詰めると頑張るって本当に精神論だし根性論だし

When you really think about it, trying your best is truly a matter of mental attitude and grit.

よくわからない言葉なんですよね

It's a word I don't really understand.

なんでこの話したいかというとですね

The reason I want to talk about this is because...

今の例えば10代20代下手すると30代ギリギリかなと思うんですけど

I think it might be the case for people in their teens, twenties, and possibly even those in their thirties.

もうちょっと頑張れっていうことの意味がまずわからないし

I don't really understand what it means to say "try a little harder."

それに対する価値がわからないっていうことが

Not understanding the value of that.

そもそも僕がこれを話したいきっかけなんですね

This is the reason why I wanted to talk about this in the first place.

私実は数年前まで20代の子たちと一緒に汗を流すような会社をやっていたんですけども

Actually, until a few years ago, I was running a company where I worked hard alongside people in their 20s.

その中で多くの本音お酒飲みながらとかコーヒー飲みながら聞いている中で

Among them, many are listening while drinking alcohol or coffee, expressing their true feelings.

実は頑張れって言われてもよくわからないんです

To be honest, even when I'm told to try my best, I don't really understand it.

うーん

Hmm.

っていう言葉を何人かから聞いたんですよ

I've heard that phrase from a few people.

なるほど

I see.

これは何人かに頑張るの意味がわからないって言われたら解明しないといけないなというふうに思って

I think that if some people say they don't understand the meaning of "doing your best," I need to clarify it.

いろいろですね職業柄もあるんですけど

It varies; it's partly due to the nature of my job.

それは一体どういうことなのかっていうことを20代の子たちにすごくたくさんヒアリングしたんですね

I conducted a lot of hearings with young people in their 20s to understand what that really means.

そこで出てきたのが70点合格ラインの時

The passing line of 70 points came up there.

人は80点を頑張らない説っていうのがあってですね

There is a theory that people don't strive for an 80-point score.

これ例えばですね仕事で言うと100点を目指すのは理想なんだけど

For example, in terms of work, aiming for 100 points is ideal, but...

これ100点を目指すって難しいなだいたい合格ライン70点で決めたとすると

It's quite difficult to aim for a perfect score of 100; if we set the passing line at around 70 points.

上司が部下に対して部長が新人に対してこの資料をこういうふうにしておいて1週間後

The boss told the subordinate to prepare this document like this for the new employee, one week from now.

でだいたい70点を目安これ70点って言わないと思うんですよね

Well, I don't think it's right to say that around 70 points is the standard for "70 points."

なんとなくの合意で70点ぐらいかなこの辺っていうことでバーを設定される

It's set at around 70 points with a vague agreement that this is about the level we're aiming for.

はい

Yes

この時

At this time

20代の子たちがまずとても大切にしてたのが2ポイントあって

Young people in their twenties had two very important points that they really valued.

1ポイント目は70点を下回らない

The first point will not be below 70 points.

つまり赤点を取るっていうのは周りに迷惑をかける行為なので

In other words, getting a failing grade is an act that causes inconvenience to those around you.

とても嫌うと

I really dislike it.

僕らはその70点と言われたら70点以上71点72点を目指して必死に頑張るんだって話をしてました

We were talking about how if we're told we got a score of 70, we'll desperately aim for more than 70, like 71 or 72.

あーなるほどと

Ah, I see.

30点取るどころか65点だと

Far from getting 30 points, it's actually 65 points.

5点分周りに迷惑をかけるっていうのは

Causing trouble to people around you for 5 points is...

そういう気持ちが強いんだなーっていうのも結構驚きだったんですよね

I was quite surprised that those feelings are so strong.

はいはい

Yes, yes.

もう1点2点目が例えば仮にできた資料が72点だった時

If, for example, the materials created for points 1 and 2 had a score of 72...

これが自分が頑張ると85点や下手して92点取れる状態であったとしても

Even if this means that I can get an 85 or even a 92 if I work hard.

82点ごめんなさい72点以上は頑張らないっていうのが分かったんです

I'm sorry for the 82 points; I realized that I won't try hard for anything above 72 points.

なるほどはい

I see, yes.

これどうだろう聞いてる人が若い人だと何言ってんの当たり前じゃんなのかもしれないですけど

I wonder how this sounds; for younger people who are listening, it might be obvious, but...

40代50代からすると結構衝撃で

It's quite shocking for those in their 40s and 50s.

うんはい

Yeah, okay.

72点取ってます

I got 72 points.

あともう一頑張りすれば

Just one more push.

下手したら30分頑張ると80点になるかもしれない

If I push myself, I might get an 80 after struggling for 30 minutes.

一晩寝かすと92点になるかもしれない

It might get a score of 92 if you let it sit overnight.

頑張ってみたらって言いがちなんですよね

It's easy to say "Just give it a try."

でこれもし聞いてる方が40代50代とすると

"If the listeners are in their 40s or 50s..."

言ってる言ってる俺言ってるよっていう人いっぱいいると思うんですけど

I think there are a lot of people who say, "I'm saying it, I'm saying it."

はい

Yes

この72点から80点取ってます

I've scored between 72 and 80 points.

この72点から80点になるかもしれないですよね

It may increase from 72 points to 80 points.

80点90点に引き上げることが今の20代30代下手すぎる10代は分からないっていう現象が今の頑張るって何っていう話なんですよ

The phenomenon of how today's 20-somethings and 30-somethings are struggling to raise their scores to 80 or 90 points, while teenagers don't understand it, is what we are talking about when we say "what does it mean to strive today."

ここまでで宮部さんどうですか共感があるのか違和感があるのか

So far, how do you feel, Miyabe-san? Do you find it relatable or does it feel disconnected?

いやもうその風景はものすごく共感があるなっていうのは思いますね

Yeah, I really feel a strong sense of empathy towards that scene.

で正直頑張るっていうのって私平成生まれで今令和ですけど

To be honest, saying that I'm doing my best, I was born in the Heisei era and now we're in the Reiwa era, but...

うん

Yeah.

昭和っぽいなとは

It feels like the Showa era.

昭和のフレームだよね

It's a Showa frame, isn't it?

思います

I think so.

でそのやっぱ80点90点までできるけれど頑張らないっていうことを選択するっていうのは

So, to choose not to try even though I can achieve an 80 or 90 points is...

どちらかというと私も自分の周りに多いかなと思うんですよね

I think that there might be quite a few around me as well.

それはまさに昭和のフレームから平成を通して令和のフレームに変わっていくための一つのトレンドでもあるなと思うんですね

I think it is indeed one of the trends for transitioning from the Showa frame through the Heisei era to the Reiwa frame.

でこれグラデーションだと思います

I think this is a gradient.

はい

Yes

ですから昭和の時代だからといって頑張らなかった人もいると思うんですよ

So I think there were people who didn't try hard just because it was the Showa era.

でもそれがどちらかというとマイノリティでみんな72点だった時はそれを80点にする90点にする95点にする98点にするっていう頑張りをやってた人たちが

But rather, when everyone was scoring 72 points, there were those who worked hard to raise that to 80 points, then 90, 95, and even 98 points.

まあ例えば100人中80人とか90人いたみたいな

Well, for example, it seems like there were about 80 or 90 people out of 100.

これがだんだんだんだん多分少なくなっていって5050ぐらいになって

This will probably gradually decrease and become around 5050.

今の10代とかを見て統計をとると

Looking at today's teenagers and taking statistics...

はい

Yes

多分72点で満足でそれ以上に

Perhaps I'm satisfied with 72 points and nothing more.

何もしたくないっていう人がひょっとするとマジョリティというか80%ぐらいいるのかななんてことを思うんですよね

I wonder if there are actually around 80% of people who say they don't want to do anything, like it's the majority.

そうですねやっぱそのままその72点とかが何提出するものっていうだけじゃなくて生き方みたいになった時に

Well, when it becomes more than just a score of 72 points or something to submit, and becomes a way of life...

自分の働いているっていうのはお父さんのイメージが強いとすると

If the image of working oneself is strongly associated with my father...

100%なんとか100%にしようって思って頑張っているお父さんが果たして幸せそうかっていうと

If you think about whether a dad who is trying hard to achieve 100% really looks happy,

そうは思えないよね

I can't really think that way.

みたいに思ったりするところがあると

There are times when I feel that way.

72%にした分じゃあその80%90%にする何パーセントかをプライベートにしっかり使っていくとかっていう方が

If you reduce it to 72%, then it's better to use a certain percentage of that 80% or 90% properly in private.

もしくは他の仕事に時間を当てるとかね

Or dedicate time to other work, for example.

そうですねはい

That's right, yes.

なんかそういう方が幸せ本当の幸せっぽいなっていうのは私もやっぱ思いますかね

I also think that kind of thing seems like true happiness.

そうなんですよねだからここには例えばがむしゃらとか猛烈とか

That's right, so for example, there are words like "desperate" or "fierce" here.

そういうこういうキーワードがついている時代を生き抜いてきた人たちの

People who have lived through an era marked by such keywords.

当たり前があって

With the obvious being present

ここのね一つやっぱりこうからくりをもう一個深めてこう言っていくと

Here, I guess if we deepen this mechanism just a bit more and keep saying it...

70点ってまず決めたじゃんって

You said you would aim for 70 points in the first place, didn't you?

要はバーを70点って決めて72点ってことは合格なんですよね

In short, setting the pass mark at 70 points means that scoring 72 points is considered a passing grade, right?

実際にじゃあジャッジをしたらですね

So, if we actually judged it...

こう72点は合格か不合格かって言ったらそれは70点をバーにしているわけですから

If you're asking whether 72 points is a pass or fail, it's using 70 points as the bar.

100人が100人中合格なわけですよ

All 100 out of 100 people passed.

でじゃあその後もうちょっと頑張れるんだから頑張れって

Well then, since you can push yourself a little more after that, just do your best!

ものすごく精神的な感覚だし根性論に聞こえますよね

It feels incredibly psychological and sounds like a matter of willpower, doesn't it?

そうですね

That's right.

そうすると72点をなんとなく80点とかなんとなく90点って言われるけど

In that case, a score of 72 somehow gets said to be around 80 or maybe 90.

それってあなたのさじ加減でしょと

That's up to your discretion, isn't it?

だから僕はどこまで頑張ればいいんですかっていう話にも実はなると思うんです

So I think it actually becomes a conversation about how much more I should try.

だから頑張るの意味がわからないってのはそういうことで

So when I say I don't understand the meaning of trying hard, that's what I mean.

だったら最初から85点って言ってくれれば

If you had said 85 points from the beginning.

いや本当に

No, really.

ってなるわけですよね

That's how it is, right?

はい

Yes

うん

Yeah.

So そこの一つのやり方は

One way to do that is...

1次ゴール2次ゴールを決めてコミュニケーションするっていうこともあるかもしれないし

It may also be the case that we set primary and secondary goals and communicate about them.

でもやっぱり最初に70点って言って72点取ってきたら

But if you said 70 points at first and then scored 72 points...

そっから先は文句言わないっていうのも一つの手かなというふうには思うんですね

I think one approach could be to not complain about anything beyond that point.

はい

Yes

はいはいはいええええええ もうちゃんと2021年 Todlay まず今の時代っていうのはたくさん人が自分に会わせてくれるみたいな感じがしていますね

Yes, yes, yes, oh my goodness. Well, in 2021, it feels like there are many people who adapt to me in this modern era.

そう росばれるときにダメ Thomas jump 生まれたって思うんですよね

I think it's a bad thought when Thomas jumps and says he was born.

まあ絶対にもうその思うの私が weaker or the best of them

Well, I definitely think I'm either weaker or the best among them.

で

So, then.

多くで上向きに頑張ろうとする力を引き出すのって

It's about drawing out the strength to push upwards in many aspects.

今の時代は無意味かも

It may be meaningless in today's era.

無意味というかあんまり理解してもらえないかも

It might be meaningless or perhaps not very understandable to others.

ということを認知してほしいんですよね

I want you to recognize that.

それは本当にすごい思うなと思っていて

I really think that's amazing.

さっきみたいにがむしゃらに頑張るとか

Like I did just now, working desperately hard.

そういうものって私も本当にリスクでしかないなって

Things like that really only seem to be a risk for me as well.

なんていうか道が決まった上でがむしゃらにやるみたいな感じじゃないですか

It's more like, once the path is set, you just go at it with all your might, right?

でも私たちの世代って多分道に対する疑念しかない

But our generation probably only has doubts about the way.

この道を進んで本当に明るい未来なのか正解なのか

Is this path truly the right one for a bright future?

崖はないのかっていうのを誰もわからないもんね

No one really knows if there are no cliffs, right?

そうなんですよね

That's right.

この会社に入って本当に幸せなのかとかっていう問いの方が大きいから

The question of whether I am really happy to be in this company is bigger.

入社したらもうひたすら頑張るみたいなのは

Once I join the company, it seems like I just have to give it my all.

やっぱりちょっと難しいかなっていう

I guess it's a bit difficult after all.

私はどちらかというと40代後半に入る世代なんですけど

I belong to the generation that is somewhat in the late 40s.

2000年に会社に入ったんですね

You joined the company in 2000, right?

でも実は一番最初のHPという会社で

But actually, it was at the very first company, HP.

実はその一本道じゃない

Actually, it's not that one straight path.

っていうことをもう気づいてしまったんですよ

I have already realized that.

だからどちらかというと複数の道を

So, rather than that, multiple paths...

本当に先が続いているのかつながっているのかっていうことを

I'm really wondering if the future is connected or if it continues on.

確かめながらやってきた世代とも言えるので

You could say it's a generation that has been progressing while confirming things along the way.

だから今20代の子たちがそういうことを言っていることに対して

So when the kids in their 20s say those things now...

少し共感があるんですよね

I can relate to that a little.

でもまだ私たちの同期の中には

But still among our peers...

一本道をひたすら進むっていうことに

"To keep moving straight down a single path."

喜びとキャリアの花形を見出している人もいっぱいいて

There are many people who are finding joy and a path to a successful career.

会社に入ってまずはグループ長

After joining the company, I first became a group leader.

日本企業で言えば係長、課長、部長、補佐、部長みたいな

In Japanese companies, it would be like assistant manager, manager, department head, assistant, and senior manager.

そういうことを上がっていくことに

Rising to such things.

意味と価値があるっていうことを考える人も多いと思うんですよね

I think there are many people who consider the meaning and value.

今もそれはないとは言えないんですけど

I can't say that it doesn't exist even now.

これだけ副業の時代で転職もしやすくて

In this era of side jobs, changing careers has become easier.

若い人たちからすると特に

Especially for young people.

今ここに残ることも安泰ではなくて

Even remaining here now is not safe.

リスクと考えるとすると

If you consider it a risk

がむしゃらに頑張るわ

I'll do my best with all my might.

本当に正しいですかって正面から聞かれて

"Are you really asking me directly if this is correct?"

正しいとは言えないなと思うんですよね

I think it's hard to say it's right.

その先に見えている方々がすごい幸せだったら

If the people you can see ahead are very happy

あれですけれど

Well, about that...

せちがらいで涙が出てくるね

It's tough, and it makes me want to cry.

あるのかもしれないですかね

It might exist, I suppose.

悲壮感漂い空気が重い状況で

In a situation where a sense of anguish pervades and the atmosphere is heavy.

仕事に詰め込まれて

Pushed to the limits by work.

人生を仕事に奪われてしまう

Life is stolen away by work.

仕事に困っているように見える働き方っていうのは

It seems like a way of working that struggles with work.

会社の中を見てるといっぱいあって

When I look around the company, there are a lot of things.

だからこそ部長その上の本部長が

That's precisely why the department head and the higher-level head of the headquarters...

幸せそうに働いてるかみたいな

It seems like you're working happily.

この幸せの定義みたいなのにも

It's like a definition of happiness.

関わってくるなと思うんですよね

I think you shouldn't get involved.

そうですね

That's right.

いわゆる物欲的な車家なんちゃらみたいなものを

It's something like a so-called materialistic car family or something.

欲しかった世代とはやっぱ違うので

It's definitely different from the generation I wanted.

そうなんだよね

I see.

だからがむしゃらに働けば

So if you work desperately hard,

お金がさらに手に入り

More money comes in.

がむしゃらに働くといいポジションにつけるだろ

If you work desperately, you'll be able to get a good position.

だから働けみたいなロジックなんだけど

So it's like a logic that says you should work.

お金って自分の人生を犠牲にしてまで

"Is money worth sacrificing your own life for?"

欲しいものなのかっていうのが

It's about whether it's something I want.

多分20代とかの持ってるクエスチョンだし

It's probably a question that people in their 20s have.

部長職を手に入れるっていうことが

Acquiring the position of department head means...

幸せなんですかっていうことも

Are you asking if I'm happy?

多分クエスチョンだと思いますし

I think it might be a question.

そうなんですよ

That's right.

下手すると残業規制がかかってて

If we're not careful, we might end up with overtime regulations in place.

がむしゃらに働いたとて

No matter how desperately you work.

残業代つけられないとかね

Like not being able to claim overtime pay, you know?

そうですね

That's right.

そういう制度や風土も相まって

Together with such systems and culture.

なかなか頑張るっていうことが理解できない

I can't really understand what it means to try hard.

これねでも実はこう

Well, actually, this is how it is.

なんかこう喋ってますけど

I'm kind of talking like this, but...

結構多いと思うんです

I think there are quite a lot.

会社の中でこの頑張るの意味が

The meaning of trying hard within the company.

分かってもらえないで苦労している

I'm struggling because I can't get understood.

40代50代

In their 40s and 50s

つまり上司として部下をどうモチベーション

In other words, how to motivate subordinates as a boss.

コントロールしたらいいかとか

Whether to control it or not.

どうやって皆さんにパフォーマンスを出してもらったらいいか

How can I encourage everyone to perform?

分かんなくて悩んでる人いっぱいいると思うんですよね

I think there are many people who are struggling and don't understand.

でも相変わらず今日のようなお話が

But still, stories like today's are...

なんとなく認知できてないとすると

If you're saying that you somehow can't recognize it...

いいから頑張れになっちゃうっていうか

It's more like, "Just give it your best."

でその頑張ってくれないからこそ

It's precisely because you're not trying hard that...

最近の若者は頑張りが足りないとかね

Recently, young people are said to lack effort, you know.

やる気がないとかいう言葉になるんですけど

It comes down to saying that I'm not motivated.

それはやる気とか頑張るの意味を

That means motivation or effort.

少しよく考えた方がいいですよって

You should think about it a little more carefully.

そういうことがですね

That's just how it is.

お話ししたかったんですよ

I wanted to talk to you.

なるほどそうですね

I see, that's true.

本当にそのだから頑張るっていうことの指標が

That's why the standard for working hard is truly...

85%であるなったら最初から85%を言ってほしい

If it's going to be 85%, I wish you would just say 85% from the start.

っていうのは思うなっていうのもありますし

There are things that I think should not be thought about.

その頑張るっていうことを言うってことは

To say that you're trying hard...

道に迷わずそれをがむしゃらにやれってことだから

It means to do it desperately without getting lost.

その先をやってらっしゃる

I am doing it ahead.

言ってくれてるあなたがとても幸せであったら

I would be very happy if you are saying that.

私はいいなとは思いますかね

I wonder if it's good.

あとだからそれはもう少しフェアに言うんだったら

Well then, if I were to put it a little more fairly...

最初70点っていうバーを出して

Setting the bar at 70 points at first.

72点出てきたから

I got a score of 72.

あと5点頑張ろうと

Let's try our best for another 5 points.

その5点の意味は

What do those five points mean?

それを5点引き上げることによって

By raising it by 5 points.

こういう効能と意味があるよっていうことを

This means that there are such effects and significance.

ちゃんと説明した上で

After properly explaining it.

5点なら5点頑張ろうって言わないと

If it's 5 points, you have to say you'll do your best for 5 points.

もうちょっと頑張ろうかって

Shall we try a little harder?

それはもうもはやゴール言ってないもんね

That's no longer even reaching the goal.

そうですね

That's right.

今こんなこと言ってますけど

I'm saying this kind of thing now, but...

多分私はどちらかっていうと

Maybe I'm more of the type that...

個人的に85%ぐらいにしていくのが

Personally, I think it's good to aim for around 85%.

好きなタイプ

Favorite type.

だからなんか結果的に

So, somehow in the end...

すごくいい感じでこう仕事させてもらう時も

It feels really good to be able to work like this.

あったりするのかなとは思ったりするんですけれど

I wonder if that might be the case.

やっぱりこう世代的なことを考えたりすると

After all, when I think about generational things like this...

そういう人だけではないしっていうのは思いますね

I think it's not just people like that.

そうですね

I see.

だから逆に逆手を取ってですね

So, on the contrary, let's take advantage of it.

20代で頑張る意味なんて分かんないぜって思ってる人も

There are people who think they don't understand the meaning of working hard in their 20s.

仮にこの会社の中で昇進したり

For example, if I were to get promoted within this company...

上の人に気に入られたいと思ったら

If you want to be liked by those above you.

72点で何が悪いんじゃいって思う一方

On one hand, I think, "What's wrong with getting 72 points?"

じゃああと5点だけ頑張りますって言って頑張ると

Then if I say I'll do my best for just 5 more points and give it my all...

あこいつは頑張るやつだなんて思ってですね

"I thought this guy really puts in the effort."

上司から気に入られるっていう可能性はあるかもしれないですし

There is a possibility that I might be liked by my boss.

改めてもう1回頑張ってみてって言われた時に

When I was told to try once more again.

今僕自身は70点を超えて合格ラインにいると思ってるんですけど

I believe that I myself am above the passing line with a score over 70 points.

あとどのぐらい頑張って引き上げた方がいいかは

How much longer should I try to pull up?

ちょっと擦り合わせしたいですっていう

I want to discuss it a bit.

何点上げたいのかを上司から引き出すみたいなテクニックがあるとですね

There's a technique to draw out from your boss what score you want to achieve.

こうむやむやに頑張るとか

Working hard in a vague or unclear manner.

がむしゃらに頑張るが

I’ll do my best with all my might.

もうモチベーション下がるじゃないですか一番

My motivation just dropped the most.

若い子からするとね

From the perspective of a young person, you know.

だって意味わかんない苦行ですよ苦行

Because it doesn't make sense, it's just suffering, suffering.

だからそういう苦行にならないような工夫っていうのもあるのかな

So, I wonder if there are ways to make it so that it doesn't become such a苦行 (harsh practice).

っていうのはちょっと今話してて思いましたね

I just realized that while we were talking.

そうですね

That's right.

なんかこうちょっとこの話また続いちゃうかもしれないんですけど

This might lead to a bit more continuation of this story.

なんか熱量的に頑張るっていうことを

It’s about putting in effort with enthusiasm.

絵の疑問もまあそもそもあるっちゃあるんですよね

There are indeed some doubts regarding the painting from the very beginning.

あるね

It exists.

だからそれって意味あるっていうか

So, does that really mean anything?

ある

There is / There are

なんか多分その時代に

Maybe during that era.

読んでた漫画とかがあるとすると

If there are any manga that I was reading...

ひたすら頑張って汗水垂らして

Just keep working hard and sweating profusely.

叱咤激励されながら乗り越えていくっていう像を

The image of overcoming challenges while being scolded and encouraged.

ちらつく時もあるというか

Sometimes it flickers, or rather.

そうなんです

That's right.

スポコン漫画なんですよ

It's a sports-themed manga.

古くは明日の女王とかね

In the old days, it was called the Queen of Tomorrow.

真っ白な灰になるまで戦うわけです

I will fight until I turn to pure white ashes.

巨人の星

Star of the Giants

肩壊れるぐらいまで強制微物で早い弾を投げる

Throwing fast balls with forced micro-objects until my shoulder breaks.

はい

Yes

でまあ

Well then,

巨人の星

Star of the Giants

簡単に言うとこれの本当の実害がウサギ飛びで

To put it simply, the real harm of this is bunny hopping.

ウサギ飛びって根性論しかなくても

Even if there is only a belief in determination in rabbit hopping...

膝を壊すことしかないっていうのがもう分かってますよね

You already know that there's nothing but breaking your knees.

あとは水飲まないとか

And then, not drinking water or something.

そうそう

That's right.

水分補給をすることでパフォーマンス上がるはずなのに

You should be able to improve your performance by staying hydrated.

なんか飲まないことを美徳にして我慢させるみたいなね

It's like they're making it a virtue not to drink and forcing others to endure it.

なんかそこがやっぱり延長線上に

Somehow, that seems to be on a continuous line.

いいから頑張れにつながってるのは否めなくて

It's undeniable that it connects to "just do your best."

で私の世代はドラゴンボールなんですね

So my generation is Dragon Ball.

ドラゴンボールは多分ワンピースと違って最後のこうなんでしょうね

Dragon Ball is probably different from One Piece in that it ends like this.

天井がない強さ

A strength without a ceiling.

もう一番強かったはずのやつを倒したら

If I defeat the one who should have been the strongest...

さらに強いやつ出てきて神様出てきて神様を超えるみたいな

Furthermore, a stronger one appears, and then a god comes out, surpassing the gods.

なんかそのどこまで上に行くんだろう

I wonder how far up it will go.

はいはい

Yes, yes.

これは僕は金融資本主義と呼ばれる

This is what I call financial capitalism.

1円を100円にして1万円にして100万円にして

Turning 1 yen into 100 yen, then into 10,000 yen, and then into 1 million yen.

1000万円にして1億円にしてって再現がない

There's no way to recreate turning 10 million yen into 100 million yen.

だからそのマネーゲームでゴールがないような状態とちょっと似てるなと思ってて

So I think it's a bit similar to a state where there is no goal in that money game.

それのアレルギーや疲れから来てる

It's due to allergies or fatigue.

ポケモン世代って僕は呼んでるんですけど

I call it the Pokémon generation.

コンプリートが大事

Completing is important.

冒険活劇であり

It is an adventurous drama.

ワンピースも強くはなっていくんですけど

The One Piece is becoming stronger as well.

どちらかというとルフィが100倍強くなるというよりは

Rather than saying that Luffy becomes 100 times stronger,

仲間を見つけて仲間とそれぞれ違う要素を組み合わせながら成長していくみたいな

It’s like finding companions and growing by combining different elements with each other.

そういう物語だと思ってて

I thought it was that kind of story.

やっぱワンピース世代とポケモン世代っていうのが

After all, there are generations of One Piece and generations of Pokémon.

今の頑張るって何って言ってる世代で

What does it mean to "do your best" in this generation?

相変わらず巨人の星だったり

As always, it's the star of Giants.

明日の女王で燃え尽きるぜ俺らはって言ってる人たちが

People who are saying they're going to burn out with Tomorrow's Queen.

おじさまにいて

Please stay with me, uncle.

そこのギャップが分かり合えないみたいなことが起きてるのかななんて

I wonder if there’s some sort of gap that makes it hard to understand each other.

思ったりしてます

I'm thinking about it.

なんかちょっと思考停止感を感じざるを得ないみたいな

I can't help but feel a sense of intellectual stagnation.

ちょっと食い込むね

It digs in a little.

そんなことないぞっていう人がいたらですね

If there are people who say that's not the case, then...

サンポストに意見を出してもらって

I would like you to share your opinions on the Sanpost.

我々の世代はってなると老害ですからね

When it comes to our generation, it becomes old people's problems.

意見がある方はぜひですね

If you have any opinions, please do share.

でもこのテーマってすごい面白いんですよ

But this theme is really interesting.

そういうテーマだと思うんですよね

I think that's the kind of theme it is.

そうですね

That's right.

なんかこうなんていうか

It's hard to say exactly, but...

多分逆を考えれば私たちぐらいの世代が

Maybe if we think of the opposite, our generation is about...

頑張るっていうのの反面で

On the other hand of doing your best...

容量良くなりすぎちゃっていて

It's become too good in terms of capacity.

ポイントばっかり釣ってるみたいなのは

It feels like I'm just catching points.

あんまりよろしくないかなって思った時に

When I thought it might not be very good.

私が結果すごく活用すれるようになったことが

What I have become able to utilize the results greatly is

昔こうあるロボット

A robot that once existed long ago.

犬型のロボットを作られた方から

From someone who has created a dog-shaped robot.

いろいろ仕事を学んでいた時に

While I was learning various jobs,

みやびこれは重要だよって言われたことがあったんですけど

Miyabi, I was told that this is important.

打ち合わせにどこどこに行きますって言った時に

When you said you would go to a certain place for the meeting...

オンタイムに私たちって今

Are we on time now?

路線ナビとかそういうものがあるから

Because there are things like route navigation.

たどり着けるじゃないですか

You can reach it, can't you?

無駄なくなんですけど

It's not wasteful, but...

できれば30分

If possible, 30 minutes.

もし可能であったら1時間前にそこの場所に行って

If possible, please go to that place one hour earlier.

街の風景を見て

Looking at the scenery of the town.

どんな人が住んでるかを見ていきなさいっていう

"Go see what kind of people live there."

ただ行くっていうんじゃなくて

It's not just about going.

そういうふうに全体的に捉えることで

By perceiving it that way overall

人間として

As a human being.

しっかり成長できるからっていうようなことを

It's about being able to grow properly.

言われた時に

When I was told

それって頑張るみたいな

That sounds like trying your best.

なんていうんですかね

What do you call it?

普段言われてること

What is usually said.

必要なこと以上の話なんですけど

It's a conversation beyond what is necessary.

頑張るのとは違って

It's different from just trying hard.

ちょっと違うね

It's a little different.

しっかり効果を

Make sure to have a solid effect.

必要が感じられる頑張るっていうか

It's more like feeling the need to try hard.

僕の表現ではそれは

In my expression, that is...

遊びとか余力とか余白だったりして

It could be about play, margin, or spare capacity.

その話はね

That story is...

この前コスパの話したじゃないですか

We talked about cost performance the other day, didn't we?

そのコスパともつながっていて

It's connected to that cost performance as well.

やっぱりその根性論

That's just the mentality of perseverance, after all.

うやむやに頑張る

Do my best in a vague way.

むちゃくちゃに頑張る

Do my best recklessly.

その頑張るのゴールはないみたいなことの

It seems like there's no goal for that effort.

アレルギーが今の若い人たちのコスパが

Allergies are now a cost-performance issue for young people.

いいものにつながっていくんだけど

It leads to good things, though.

あまりにもコスパを重視しすぎて

Focusing too much on cost performance.

効率的にやりすぎてしまうと

If you become too efficient,

余力や遊びがなくなってしまって

I've run out of spare time and leisure.

まさにその街の風景を感じるって

You can really feel the scenery of that town.

じゃあコスパで言うと

Well, if we're talking about cost performance...

そんなに高いものではないんですよね

It's not that expensive, you know.

はい

Yes

でもその余白や遊びから

But from that margin and play

何か違うものが生まれてきて

Something different is being born.

効率的にコスパの高い状態で出すものが100だとした時に

When we consider that something efficient and high-cost-performance is 100,

これ150になったり

This becomes 150 or something.

下手したら200になったり

It might end up being 200 if things go poorly.

っていうことが生まれてくるっていうことがあるんですよ

There are things that are born from such experiences.

でもほらぐるっと回るでしょ

But you see, it goes around in a circle, right?

そうするとじゃあ150点とか200点とかって

Then, does that mean 150 points or 200 points?

だって最初のゴールが80点だとすると

Because if the initial goal is 80 points,

いらないじゃんって話になるので

It’s a conversation that goes, "Isn't it unnecessary?"

ここはね

This place is...

そうですね

That's right.

堂々巡りなんですよ

It's a vicious cycle.

頑張れっていう単語はやっぱちょっと

The word "do your best" is a bit...

なんかなっていうのは思ったっていうことなんですけど

I thought that something might be happening.

違う意味に変換してもらえたりすると

If you could change it to a different meaning, that would be great.

分かりやすいなっていう気はするんですよね

I feel that it's easy to understand.

あとはやっぱり誰かに

I guess it's still about someone else.

僕はそのハードルを超えることを

I will overcome that hurdle.

強要されたくないというか

It's not that I want to be forced.

ホームラン打つって本人の感覚だから

Hitting a home run is a matter of personal feeling for the player.

だからその100点や80点を

So, those 100 points and 80 points...

合格ラインで目指したときに

When aiming for the passing line

その余白をまず感じてほしいっていうのは

I want you to first feel that blank space.

若い人たちにあるんですよね

It's among young people, isn't it?

感じたときにそれが150点や200点になる感覚は

The feeling when it becomes 150 points or 200 points is

まさにその経験でしかないので

It's precisely that experience.

一回それやってみると

When you try it once,

それのすごさとか意味とかっていうのが分かるので

I can understand the greatness and meaning of that.

毎回毎回それをやれってことじゃないんですよね

It's not that you have to do that every single time.

だからその必要性があったりとか意味があったり

So there was necessity or meaning in that.

ここは大事だなと思ったときに

"When I thought this was important."

そういうことをやってみるってことを

Trying to do things like that.

まさに経験で学んでほしくて

I want you to learn through experience.

いいからやれからは

Just do it, okay?

あんまりそれを乱されないような

So that it doesn't get too disturbed.

気がするんですよね

I have a feeling.

だからおじさま代表として言えることは

So what I can say as a representative of the uncle is...

効率的コスパがいいはOK

Efficient cost performance is good.

そして頑張るのを盲目性に対しては

And as for striving against blindness...

上司に頑張って突っ込んでいこうと

Let’s work hard and confront the boss.

だけれども余白や遊びを忘れないでね

But don't forget to leave some white space and playfulness.

っていうことはあるので

That can happen.

コスパの高い状態だからこそ

It's precisely because it's in a high cost-performance state.

余力を生んで

Create余力.

その余力の中で成果が2倍にも3倍にもなるような

So that the results can double or triple within that capacity.

簡単に言うと感性味がこうなんだけどね

To put it simply, the sensitivity taste is like this.

感性や余裕を持って仕事ができるといいな

I hope I can work with sensitivity and余裕.

なんてことは思ったりします

I sometimes think about such things.

若者代表に近いような感じで

It feels like I’m close to being a representative of the youth.

言わせていただきましたけれども

I had to say it, but...

第三者の人が本音では

What third parties truly think.

そういう単語まで思ってるのかなって

I wonder if they're even thinking about those kinds of words.

思っていただけると

If you could think of it that way.

ちょっと代弁ができたりすると嬉しいなと

I would be happy if I could speak on someone else's behalf a little.

あと実際にはみやびさん

Also, in reality, Miyabi-san.

今20代代表みたいな顔してますけど

You're looking like a representative of your twenties right now.

30歳しかかりましたから

I have only reached 30 years old.

私も分からない感覚

I also don’t understand the feeling.

全然分かるんですよね

I totally understand.

だから例えば40代50代から仕事を振られたり

So for example, being assigned work from people in their 40s and 50s...

話をした時に

When I talked to you

その文脈少しだけ分かるんですよね

I understand that context a little bit.

だからその部分は残っているっていう前提で

So on the premise that that part remains.

でも20代の人たちともたくさん仕事してる中で

But while working a lot with people in their 20s,

私もそうですけど

Me too.

感じるギャップみたいなことを

Like the feeling of a gap.

今頑張って言語化していただいたのかな

Did you just work hard to put that into words?

っていうふうに思います

I think it's like that.

ぜひなんかいろんな意見があるかもしれないですけれども

There may certainly be various opinions about it.

アトマーク

At Mark

s-u-n-b-o-s-tで

With s-u-n-b-o-s-t.

もしよかったら

If it's okay with you.

このご感想などつぶやいていただけますと

If you could tweet about your thoughts like this, it would be great.

私たちもゴールが分かってるわけですから

Since we also understand the goal.

ツイッターのハッシュタグですね

It's a Twitter hashtag.

ハッシュタグs-u-n-b-o-s-tさんポストに

To the post by hashtag s-u-n-b-o-s-t.

ご意見いただければと

I would appreciate your feedback.

あとはフォームがありますんで

There's also a form to fill out.

今日の話なんかは結構ね

Today's story is quite something, you know.

重たい話だったり

It was a heavy topic.

いやこういうこと思ってんだっていう人がいたら

Well, if there's someone who thinks about things like this, then...

ぜひそのフォームを使って

Please definitely use that form.

ご意見いただければと思います

I would appreciate your feedback.

概要欄からご覧ください

Please see the description box.

はいということで今日は

Yes, so today...

頑張るという話について

About the topic of trying hard.

みやびさんとお話をしてみました

I tried talking with Miyabi-san.

はいありがとうございました

Yes, thank you very much.

今日はまた違うテーマで

Today, let's talk about a different theme.

さんポストを楽しんでみてください

Please enjoy the post.

それでは今日はこの辺で失礼します

Well then, I'll take my leave here for today.

バイバーイ

Bye-bye.