#11 宮田愛萌とサンキュータツオが振り返る「学問のNUMA」

宮田愛萌＆サンキュータツオ

國學院大學 presents 学問のNUMA

ようこそあなたの知らない知識の世界へ国学院大学プレゼンツ学問の沼

Welcome to the world of knowledge you don't know. Kokugakuin University presents the Academic Swamp.

さあ始まりました学問の沼 mc を務める国学院大学の卒業生タレントで小説家の宮田まなもです

Now let's get started with the swamp of academia. I am Manamo Miyata, a graduate of Kokugakuin University, a talent, and a novelist.

そしてコメンテーターはこの方学者芸人の産休達夫ですよろしくお願いします

And the commentator is this person, scholar and entertainer, Takuto San Kyuu. Thank you for having me.

この番組は知られざる知識が眠る学問をテーマに国学院大学の教授からその魅力を楽しく教えてもらい

This program features the charm of lesser-known knowledge in academia, taught in a fun way by professors from Kokugakuin University.

リスナーの皆さんと一緒に学問の沼にはまっちゃおうという探求型トークバラエティーです

It's an exploratory talk variety show where we delve into the depths of academia together with our listeners.

これまで5人の教授からお話を伺ってきましたが今回の放送で一区切りとなります

So far, I have heard from five professors, and this broadcast will mark the end of this series.

そうなのそうなんです

That's right, that's how it is.

そこで今回は5人の教授の話から

This time, let's talk about the stories of five professors.

印象に残っている

It left an impression.

ことや学びとなったことを振り返っていきたいと思います

I would like to reflect on what has become a thing and a learning experience.

いや面白かったからね

Well, it was interesting.

さらに私と達夫さんがハマっている学びの沼についてもお話ししていきたいと思います

I would also like to talk about the learning pit that Tatsu and I have become engrossed in.

なんとなんと聞けちゃうの楽しみです

I'm really excited to be able to hear it!

楽しみですそれでは学問の沼参りましょう

I'm looking forward to it. Now, let's dive into the depths of academia.

これまで国学院大学の5人の教授から学びのあるお話を聞いてきました

I have heard insightful stories from five professors at Kokugakuin University so far.

お一人ずつ

One at a time.

振り返っていきたいと思います

I would like to look back.

まずは初回のゲスト飯倉教授から振り返っていきましょう

First, let's look back at our initial guest, Professor Iikura.

飯倉先生ね

It's about Dr. Iikura.

飯倉先生面白かったですね

Mr. Iikura was really interesting, wasn't he?

交渉文芸学や現代民俗論などを専門に研究されている教授だったんですけれども

He was a professor who specialized in the study of negotiation literature and modern folklore theory.

知られざる鬼の世界というテーマで

With the theme of the unknown world of demons.

もうシーズン1のこのポッドキャストの初回にふさわしいキャッチーな内容でね

It's already catchy content suitable for the first episode of Season 1 of this podcast.

永遠に喋り続ける機会みたいな感じでしたよね

It felt like an opportunity to keep talking forever, didn't it?

そうですね

That's right.

飯倉先生の体験授業私受けたことがあったんですけど

I had the experience of taking a trial lesson with Professor Iikura.

体験授業って何

What is a trial lesson?

オープンキャンパスとかで

At open campuses and such

オープンキャンパス

Open campus

体験授業をやってくださるんですよ

They will be holding a trial lesson.

それを聞いたことがあったなっていうのを思い出しましたね

I remembered that I had heard that before.

飯倉先生働いてますね

Mr. Iikura is working, isn't he?

僕実はねちょっとポッドキャストでもお話したんですけれども

Actually, I talked about it a bit on the podcast.

飯倉先生は前から面識があって

I have known Doctor Iikura for some time.

僕が

変な論文を読むのが好きなので

I like reading strange papers.

変なって言うと失礼なんですけれども

I don't mean to be rude by saying it's strange, but...

追いかけてくるもの研究っていうタイトルの論文を見つけて

I found a paper titled "Research on Things That Chase You."

なんだこれって思ったら

I thought, "What is this?"

とにかく昔から後ろから追いかけてくるものをモチーフにした

Anyway, it was inspired by something that has been chasing from behind since ancient times.

変な話ばっかりを飯倉先生が集めてて

Mr. Iikura has been collecting nothing but strange stories.

そのパタパタおばあさんって

That flapping old lady, huh?

すごいスピードでパタパタ追いかけてくるおばあさんが

An old woman is chasing after me at an incredible speed.

首なしライダーって言って

They call it the headless rider.

首のないオートバイに乗った人が追いかけてくるとか

A person riding a headless motorcycle is coming after me.

なぜそういう話が昔から現代に至るまであるのかっていうのを

Why stories like that have existed from ancient times to the modern era.

ずっと研究なさってて

You've been researching for a long time.

こういう先生いらっしゃるんだっていうことで

I heard there are teachers like this.

ちょっと僕の本でも紹介したことがあってですね

I have introduced my book a little.

で一発目にこの飯倉先生だったから

Because the first person was this Iikura-sensei.

あれこれ飯倉先生が

Dr. Iikura has various things.

影のボスなのかな

Is it the shadow boss?

確かに

Certainly.

あれみたいな感じだったんですけれど

It felt similar to that.

でもね鬼っていう切り口一つでも結構いろんな話を伺いましたよね

But you know, even just from the perspective of demons, I’ve heard quite a variety of stories.

そうですねなんか鬼っていうと本当にそれこそアニメとか漫画の鬼滅の刃とか有名になって

That's right, when you think of demons, it really brings to mind popular anime and manga like Demon Slayer.

そういうなんか人を食うとかイメージがあったんですけど

I had the image that it was something like eating people.

そういうのだけではなく姿形はなかったっていうところから始まっていったのがすごいな

It's amazing that it all started from the fact that there were no forms or shapes, not just that.

面白いなという風に思いました

I thought it was interesting.

気配がね

There's a presence.

実際体で角が生えてるあの鬼

That oni with horns actually growing from its body.

実はこんな歴史があったんだっていうのもね面白かったですよね

Actually, it was interesting to learn about this kind of history, wasn't it?

そうですね

That's right.

二方目は深澤太郎教授

The second speaker is Professor Taro Fukazawa.

研究開発推進機構というところもね

There's also an organization called the Research and Development Promotion Agency.

はい

Yes

先生でしたね

You were a teacher, weren't you?

ちょっと研究開発推進機構というのが聞き慣れないし言い慣れないことは

I'm not very familiar with or accustomed to the term "Research and Development Promotion Organization."

そうだよね

That's right.

思いながら

While thinking

でももう本当に考古学っていう感じでね

But it really feels like archaeology now.

弥生時代古墳時代の研究や

Research on the Yayoi period and the Kofun period.

伊豆諸島における遺跡発掘や民族義言の調査をするなど

Conducting archaeological excavations and researching ethnographic testimonies in the Izu Islands.

考古学を専門に幅広く研究されている教授で

A professor who specializes in archaeology and conducts extensive research.

邪道な考古学者から学ぶ学問のすすめというテーマでお話しいただきました

I spoke about the theme of learning from heretical archaeologists.

邪道というか本人はね邪道とは思ってないでしょうけれども

It’s not so much that it’s a bad way, but I don’t think they consider it a bad way themselves.

一般的にその学問というとすごい狭いところを

Generally speaking, that field of study refers to a very narrow area.

もうカッチカチここだけは専門みたいな風にやりがちなんですけど

It's easy to get stuck in a rigid mindset here, as if it's our specialty.

やっぱ考古学っていうのはね

After all, archaeology is...

歴史が縦にも横にも広がってつながってるっていう部分もあるので

There is also the aspect that history expands and connects both vertically and horizontally.

割とこうなんだろうなご自身の興味に素直に従って

It seems like you’re quite honestly following your own interests.

考古学をなさっている方という印象でしたね

You gave the impression of someone who is doing archaeology.

なんかこういうふうに幅広くたくさん調べている教授がいらっしゃるっていうと

When I hear that there are professors who do broad and extensive research like this,

なんか実際にこうじゃあ本当に興味のあることやっていいんだっていう風な気持ちになって

It makes me feel like I can really do what I'm genuinely interested in.

よりね学びたい気持ちが高まりましたね

I feel more motivated to learn.

どうだったこの深澤先生

How was this Mr. Fukazawa?

すごい面白くってなんかやっぱりこうご自身でいろいろなこと体験なさってたじゃないですか

It's really interesting, and it seems you've personally experienced various things, right?

実際に山節になって山で修行したって

"I actually became a yamabushi and trained in the mountains."

そんなことある

That can happen.

初めてそれを聞いて本当に山節やってみようってことあるんだと思って

Hearing that for the first time, I really thought there are people who actually want to become yamabushi.

だからコスプレイヤーとしても超一流ってことですよね

So that means you're an outstanding top-tier cosplayer as well, right?

なんて言うんだろうなやっぱ国学院大学って文系の大学だよね

I wonder how to say it, but after all, Kokugakuin University is a liberal arts university, right?

そうですよ

That's right.

かっちり文系の大学で

In a rigid humanities university.

なんかで割と都心にあってアクセスしやすくて

It's relatively located in the city center and easily accessible.

でちゃんと国学院から研究者を育てて

"Then, properly nurture researchers from Kokugakuin."

国学院の先生になってるっていうパターンがやっぱ多くて

It seems that there are many cases where people become teachers at KokuGakuin University.

なんかそれは本当にすごいことなんですよ大学っていう単位で考えると

That's really something amazing when you think of it in terms of university.

そうなんですね

I see.

だいたいやっぱりその他の大学から専門の先生呼んできて

"Basically, I guess we can call specialized teachers from other universities."

若手を育成するとか

Fostering young talent.

あと今だと大学ってやっぱりね普通の4年生大学で終わっちゃうこととか多いんですけど

These days, it's common for people to just finish at a regular four-year university.

ちゃんと研究者を育てて

Properly nurture the researchers.

でそのなんていうか大学で自活してるっていうのはやっぱ歴史がある学校じゃないとできないことなんで

Well, living independently while attending university is something that can only be done at schools with a long history.

そうなんですね

I see.

やっぱ飯倉先生とか福笠先生のお話伺っていて

As expected, while listening to stories from teachers like Iikura and Fukukasa...

本当にいい大学だなってやっぱつくづく思いましたね

I really thought to myself that it’s truly a great university.

ありがとうございます

Thank you.

そうですね

That's right.

ちょっと嬉しくなっちゃいました

I felt a little happy.

卒業生だからね

Because I'm a graduate.

でさやっぱこの時代理系の学部がないってやっぱすごいことだと思うんですよ

Well, I think it's really something that there aren't any academic departments related to the track at this time.

確かに

Certainly.

どうしても今世の中の流れとしてすぐに役に立つとかさ

It's just that, as the current trend in the world, it immediately becomes useful or something.

テクノロジーAIとかさ

Technology like AI and so on.

みんな日本人全体的にやっぱ理系に弱いんじゃない

Overall, aren’t Japanese people generally weak in the sciences?

数字に弱いとかさ

"I'm weak with numbers."

もう得体の知れないAIみたいなものに得も知れぬ恐怖を覚えているとか

I feel an inexplicable fear towards something like an unknown AI.

そういうのもあって

Because of that kind of thing.

やっぱデータ使ったりとかさ

I guess using data and stuff.

学問全体ははっきり言って理系っぽいものもあるんだけど

To be frank, there are definitely aspects of academia that feel very much like the sciences.

その中でもねやっぱ理学部とか工学部とかさ

Among those, I think especially the Faculty of Science and the Faculty of Engineering.

理学部がなくて

There is no faculty of science.

それでも成立してる大学っていう意味でも

In the sense that it's a university that is still functioning despite that.

やっぱ文系に欠ける思いというかね

I guess it's a feeling that lacks a certain kind of humanities perspective, you know?

こうやってポッドキャストできるわけじゃん宮田さんと

This is how we can do a podcast, Mr. Miyata.

大学の広報っていう単位で考えても

Even when considering it as a unit of university public relations...

ここまで予算避ける大学ないんですよ

No university avoids the budget this much.

そうなんですよ

That's right.

今の話起きちゃうと

If that story happens now...

だからこのポッドキャストによって大学でどんなことが行われてるのかっていうのを

So, through this podcast, we want to show what is happening at the university.

普通の人にも知ってもらいたいっていう

I want ordinary people to know about it.

試みができるっていう意味でも体力がある大学だなという

It's a university with the physical strength to attempt things.

そうですね

That's right.

たくさん本があって文章とか本とか文献とかがベースになってるっていうのが

There are many books, and the texts, books, and literature are based on that.

結構自慢の大学なので

It's a university I'm quite proud of.

そうなんだね

I see.

3人目が矢部先生

The third person is Mr. Yabe.

はい文学部私学科の矢部健太郎教授です

Yes, I am Professor Kentaro Yabe from the Department of Literature.

うん

Yeah.

織田信長や豊臣秀吉が活躍した戦国時代を中心に研究されている教授でした

He was a professor who specialized in the research of the Sengoku period, during which figures like Oda Nobunaga and Toyotomi Hideyoshi were active.

信長の野望をきっかけでね

It started with Nobunaga's Ambition.

同世代ですよ僕なんかからしたらこんな

We're the same generation, from my perspective, this is nothing.

そこからこの時代のトップの研究者にまで行けるっていうのは夢あるな

To be able to reach the top researchers of this era from there is truly a dream.

なんかゲーム信長の野望がきっかけで戦国時代にハマって

I got into the Sengoku period because of the game Nobunaga's Ambition.

そして本当に研究をするようになったっていう

And then I really started to do research.

なんかゲームとか本とかきっかけで入るってこうちょっと

It feels like entering through something like a game or a book is a bit…

なんかダメかなって思う人も

Some people might think it's not good.

漫画とかねアニメもそうなんですけどね

It's like with manga and anime, you know.

いると思うんですけどでも

I think there is, but...

実際にこの矢部教授が

In reality, this Professor Yabe...

信長の野望をきっかけで

Triggered by Nobunaga's Ambition

研究の道進んだって言われると

When I am told that I've advanced on the path of research...

勇気づけられる

Encouraged.

自分もやっていいんだって

It's okay for me to do it too.

そうなんだよね

That's right.

思いますね

I think so.

私も結構ゲームきっかけで

I also got into it quite a bit because of games.

ちょっと歴史とか勉強しようかなとか思ってたところで

I was just thinking that maybe I should study a little bit of history.

でもゲームきっかけってイーズがと思ってたので

But I thought it was Ease that got me into gaming.

そう

Sure.

そうなんですだから

That's right, that's why.

いいんだと思ってこのまま勉強しようって思いましたね

I thought it was okay, so I decided to continue studying as I am.

何のゲーム

What game?

刀剣乱舞

Touken Ranbu

刀乱舞出ました

Touken Ranbu has been released.

だから日本刀ですよね

That's why it's a Japanese sword, right?

そうなんです

That's right.

そういう意味で言うと

In that sense,

矢部先生はね

Mr. Yabe, you know?

その新たな史実を探る過程は

The process of exploring that new historical fact

真剣を作る刀鍛冶のような感覚っていう

It's like the feeling of a swordsmith creating a serious blade.

なんかルローニ剣士に出てきそうな話してますけどもね

It sounds like we're talking about something that could come out of Rurouni Kenshin.

確かに

Certainly.

その刀鍛冶って例えたのって確かにそうかもしれない

It's true that comparing it to a swordsmith might be accurate.

いろんな角度から

From various angles

その例えば完璧にちゃんと叩けているかとかさ

For example, whether it's being played perfectly or not.

切れ味がどうかとかさ

How about the sharpness?

検証するっていうのがやっぱ学問だから

Verification is, after all, what academia is about.

そうですね

That's right.

なんかそれにこうやっぱりいい剣を作るには

To create a really good sword, you need something like that.

いい土台がないと

Without a good foundation,

素材がないとっていうので

It's because there are no materials.

やっぱそこの土台にあるのはちゃんとした学びが

After all, what's at the foundation is proper learning.

学問を作ってるんだなっていうのは

It feels like you are creating a discipline of study.

でこの矢部先生の説が

So, this theory of Teacher Yabe...

三谷幸喜さんの目に留まって

Caught the eye of Koki Mitani.

はい

Yes.

真田丸のエピソードにも採用されたという

It is said to have been adopted in the episode of Sanada Maru.

すごいですよね

It's amazing, isn't it?

だからそれでまた真田丸を見た人が

So, because of that, people who watched Sanada Maru...

やっぱミーハかもしれないけど

I might be a bit of a fair-weather fan, but...

この戦国時代に興味を持ってまた研究するっていう人も

There are also people who are interested in this Warring States period and do research on it.

出てくるかもしれないからね

It might come out.

なんかそうやってどんどん次の世代につないでいって

It seems like we are continuously passing it on to the next generation like that.

もっともっと面白い研究ができたらいいなって

I hope to conduct even more interesting research.

そうですよね

That's right, isn't it?

そしてその論文を読みたいなって思います

And I would like to read that paper.

そして4人目が池田先生ですね

And the fourth person is Dr. Ikeda.

はい

Yes

池田先生もずっと喋ってる機会みたいな感じでしたよね

It felt like there were ongoing opportunities for conversation with Dr. Ikeda as well.

そうですね

That's right.

僕池田先生もお話伺ってご縁があったのは

I had the opportunity to speak with Mr. Ikeda, and I feel a connection.

はい

Yes

原稿の怒りの引き上げに僕はクラウドファンディングで出資してたんで

I had invested in the funding for the manuscript's anger through crowdfunding.

よく届くんですよ進捗が松浦市っていうところから

I often receive updates from a place called Matsuura City.

丁寧にやってるなと思ったらそれ池田先生だったっていうのを聞いて

I heard that when I thought someone was doing it carefully, it turned out to be Mr. Ikeda.

ちょっとびっくりしましたね

I was a little surprised.

ご縁が上げますね

It will bring a connection.

俺国学院出身なのかな

I wonder if I graduated from Kokugakuin University.

自分でもちょっと思う

I think so myself a little bit.

俺国学院の先生なのかな

I wonder if I'm a teacher at Kokugakuin.

ぜひ言い出してください

Please feel free to say it.

入りたいな

I want to join.

難しいんだけれどもさ

It's difficult, you know.

いやでもなんか水中にはバクテリアがいないからね

Well, but there aren't any bacteria in the water, you know.

遺跡は腐食せずに当時のまま残っていると

The ruins have remained as they were at that time without corroding.

なのですごく貴重なんだけど探し出すのがすごく難しいっていう話なんだよね

So it's very precious, but the story is that finding it is extremely difficult.

そうですねなんか私は水中の方が残ってるっていうのがすごく意外で

Well, I find it really surprising that I seem to be more present underwater.

なんか魚とかに食べられちゃうんじゃないかなとか

I wonder if I'll end up getting eaten by fish or something.

ずっとそういうこと思っていたので

I have always thought that way.

逆にそうなんだ引き上げるのは大変になる

On the contrary, it will be difficult to raise it.

けれどもっていうので意外でしたね

It was surprising to hear that, though.

綺麗な感じに残っててね

It remains with a beautiful feeling, doesn't it?

でもやっぱさこのレベルになるとさ

But when it reaches this level, you know...

かかってくる予算とかもさ

Like the budget that's coming in and all.

すごいでかくてさ

It's really huge.

これ見つかんなかったらどう責任取るんだろうみたいな

I wonder how they would take responsibility if they couldn't find this.

怖さがある中でちゃんと見つけたっていう話がドラマあったよね

There was a story in a drama about finding something properly despite the fear.

なんかやっぱ見つけた時ほっとしたっておっしゃってて

You said that you felt relieved when you found it.

ほっとしたそうだよね

It seems like you were relieved.

もっと高まる気持ちなのかと思ったが

I thought my feelings would rise even more.

そうだよ

That's right.

ここまでやって見つかんなかったのに

Even after going this far, I still couldn't find it.

よかったらどうしようはあるよね

If you want, there is something we can do.

ですね

That's right.

そうなるとロマンだけじゃできない部分が

In that case, there are parts that cannot be done with just romance.

しかも初めてやることだからさ

Moreover, it's something I'm doing for the first time.

怒りを引き上げた時に折れないようにマットレス使う

Use a mattress to prevent it from breaking when you lift your anger.

発想すごいですよね

The idea is amazing, isn't it?

マットレス?

Mattress?

あの大谷翔平が寝てるやつ?みたいな感じでしたよね

Wasn't it like that time when Shohei Ohtani was sleeping?

面白かったなあいう話もね

That was an interesting story, wasn’t it?

すごかったですね

It was amazing, wasn't it?

聞き漏らしてる方ぜひ聞いていただきたいですね

I hope those who missed it will definitely listen.

さあそして5人目

Now, the fifth person.

5人目は

The fifth person is

神道文化学部神道文化学科藤本頼夫教授です

This is Professor Yoshio Fujimoto from the Department of Shinto Studies, Faculty of Shinto Culture.

近代神道史をご専門にされているのですが

You specialize in the modern history of Shinto, don't you?

テーマは知っていそうで知らない神社の話ということでした

The theme was a story about a shrine that seems familiar yet unknown.

いやこの神道文化学部ですよ

No, it's the Department of Shinto Culture.

はい

Yes

お友達いた?神道文化学部

Did you have friends? Shinto Cultural Studies Department.

半年だけ入ってたサークルの先輩に一人いました

There was one senior in the club that I only joined for half a year.

そうなんだ

I see.

へえ

Oh really?

やっぱ神道文化学部の人だみたいな感じ?

Is it like, after all, someone from the Shinto Culture Department?

いや全然ないよ

No, not at all.

だから聞くまで知らなくて

So I didn't know until you told me.

そんな学部あるんだみたいな感じ?

Is there really a faculty like that?

なんか服とかが

Somehow, clothes and such.

祭事とかの演習があったりとかすると

If there are rehearsals for events and such,

専用のやっぱり袴みたいなの着てるので

I'm wearing something that is really like a special hakama.

存在は知っているんですけれども

I know of its existence, but...

何をやっているのかはよくわからないっていう感じで

I have the feeling that I don't really understand what is happening.

そういう人が同じキャンパスにいるの面白いね

It's interesting to have someone like that on the same campus.

あとなんかオープンキャンパスで

Also, something at the open campus...

なんか説明会みたいなのがあるんですけど

There's something like an orientation meeting.

したので遅早っていうのを着せていただいたことが

Since I was made to wear something called "late early."

高校生のときにあって

When I was in high school.

それのイメージがすごく強かったです

The image of that was very strong.

そして神道文化学部の藤本先生が

And then Professor Fujimoto from the Department of Shinto Culture

神社の話を色々してくれました

They talked about various things related to the shrine.

神社は結構文化を支えていたっていうのを

Shrines were quite supportive of culture.

そうだよね

That's right.

意外ですね

That's surprising, isn't it?

人が集まる場所っていうかор

It's a place where people gather.

今で言えばもうショッピングモールぐらいの感じのノリだよね

It's like the vibe of a shopping mall these days.

とりあえず神社行こうかみたいな

Let's go to the shrine for now, or something like that.

そうですね

That's right.

公園もないし神社行こうか相撲見ようぜとかそういう感じだよね

Since there's no park, how about we go to a shrine or watch some sumo? That's the kind of feeling.

エンタメも全部神社に集まってたの

All the entertainment was gathered at the shrine.

能もやってくれるわけでしょ相撲もあるわけでしょ完璧だよね

You can also do Noh, and there’s also sumo, right? It’s perfect, isn’t it?

めちゃめちゃコスパが良くないですか

Isn't it incredibly cost-effective?

コスパいいよで何だったら神様もいてくれるわけだからありがたいよね

It’s great in terms of cost performance, and if there’s a god involved, that makes it even more appreciated, right?

そういう感じの場所としての神社っていうお話も

It's also a story about shrines as places with that kind of feeling.

だから日本に8万社の神社があるっていうのを聞いただけでもやっぱすごかったね

So just hearing that there are 80,000 shrines in Japan was really impressive.

そうですね本当にたくさんあるんだなって思いましたね

I really thought there are truly a lot of them.

でまたやっぱ藤本先生もいいのは収録があるぞとかって

And again, Fujimoto-sensei is saying that there are recordings available.

いろいろ脳内でシミュレーションしたんだろうね

I guess you simulated various scenarios in your mind.

ものすごい大量の写真を持ってきてくれたじゃない

You brought an incredible amount of photos, didn't you?

この話の時はこれこの話の時はこれみたいな感じで

It's like this for this story, and like this for that story.

絵描き写真みたいな震災の時の避難場所はこれみたいな感じで出してきてた

It felt like they were presenting the evacuation sites during the earthquake as if they were pictures drawn by an artist.

すごかったですね

It was amazing, wasn’t it?

本当に授業を聞いてるみたいな

It feels like I'm really listening to a class.

みたいな感じでした

It felt something like that.

贅沢だったね

It was luxurious, wasn't it?

今いろんな大学がね

Right now, various universities are...

やっぱ時代に適応しようとして

I guess I'm trying to adapt to the times.

結構どこの大学も似たり寄ったりになりがちなんですよ

Many universities tend to be quite similar to each other.

例えば今データサイエンス流行ってるからデータサイエンス学部作ろうとか

For example, since data science is trending now, let's create a data science department.

データサイエンスの授業入れようとかになって

It is about incorporating a data science class.

昔からある伝統的な

Traditional since ancient times

大学の売りであるような授業とか学問領域が結構消滅しているというか

It seems that many of the classes and fields of study that used to be the selling points of the university are quite disappearing.

本当に職業訓練効果している中で

While the vocational training is really effective,

国学院大学というのはちゃんと老いえげを守ってさらに強くしていってる

Kokugakuin University is properly preserving its traditions and further strengthening them.

方法で生き残りをかけてるっていうところに

"The situation where we are fighting for survival."

ものすごく志の高さを感じましたね

I felt an incredible sense of ambition.

こういった他の大学にはいないような

Something like this that isn't found at other universities.

先生方のお話を伺えたっていうことが

I'm glad that I could hear the teachers' stories.

僕にとっても非常にいい財産になりました

It has also become a very valuable asset for me.

ありがとうございます

Thank you.

お話を伺って

I would like to hear your story.

私はやっぱり国学院大学出身で

I am indeed a graduate of Kokugakuin University.

これが普通だと思っていたので

I thought this was normal.

そうなんだと思って

I see, I think.

今やっぱり文学部だと外国語を強化して

Now, I think the literature department should strengthen foreign language studies.

国際的な人を育てるみたいなパターンが多くて

There are many patterns that seem to cultivate international-minded individuals.

やっぱり歴史とかそういったものは

After all, things like history and such are...

やっぱりちょっと古典もそうなんですけど

After all, it's a bit like the classics too.

軽視されがちというか

It tends to be underestimated.

ポストが減らされたりとか

The number of posts has been reduced, or something like that.

っていう流れがあったりとかね

There's a flow like that, you know.

あと大学でパワーポイントの使い方を

Also, how to use PowerPoint at university.

一から徹底的に教えるとかね

Teaching thoroughly from the ground up, right?

エクセルの使い方とか

How to use Excel, etc.

パソコン教室でいいじゃんとか思うんだけど

I think it's fine to go to a computer class or something like that.

これ大学でやることかみたいな

Is this something you do at university?

だけどやっぱりそういう需要があるから

But after all, there is still such demand.

そういうふうになりがちなんですけど

It tends to become that way.

うんうんうん

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

そういう意味では大学の武器強みっていうものをね

In that sense, the strengths of the university as a weapon are...

こうやって持ってるっていうのが

This is how I’m holding it.

本当にいい大学だなって思いましたよ

I really thought it was a good university.

はい

Yes.

ありがとうございます

Thank you.

そうなんですありがとうございます

I see, thank you very much.

さあ続いては私たちがハマっている

Now, next up is what we are hooked on.

学びの沼について話していきたいと思います

I would like to talk about the swamp of learning.

まずは辰夫さんにお聞きしたいんですが

First, I would like to ask Mr. Tatsuo.

今ハマっている学びの沼って何ですか

What is the learning obsession you are currently involved in?

学びの沼か

A swamp of learning.

どうなんだろう

I wonder how it is.

このポッドキャストでしゃべれるサイズの話で言うと

Speaking in terms of a story that would fit within the size of this podcast...

なんだろう

I wonder what it is.

日本語

Japanese

結局日本語学僕一応専門なので

In the end, Japanese language studies are my specialization, after all.

国語辞典とかも集めてますし

I'm also collecting dictionaries and things like that.

日々ね気になった表現とかをずっとスマホにつけ続けてる

I've been continuously adding expressions that catch my interest to my phone every day.

そうなんですね

I see.

誰にも話せないんだよね

I can't talk to anyone about it.

そう

Yes.

笑

Laugh

, 女性一人で行くっていうのはなかなかないのかもしれないですけど

It might be quite rare for a woman to go alone.

最近は見かけますけどね

I’ve been seeing it recently, though.

でもなんかこうなんだろうね

But I wonder what it is...

自由って聞いたことあるやっぱ使ってる人

I’ve heard of freedom, and it seems like people are using it.

インターネットでやっぱり見ますね

I guess I still see it on the internet.

なんか実際に周りで言葉に出して使ってる人は見ないんですけど

I don't really see people around me actually using those words out loud.

SNSではよく見ますね

I often see it on social media.

そうだから今年になって2020年くらいに一回ブームがあったんだけど

That's why there was a boom around 2020 this year.

また2024年になって使われ始めたという

It is said that it started to be used again in 2024.

やっぱねちょっと気持ち悪い男の人が

I knew it, he's a bit of a creepy guy.

一昔前はオタクとかさ陰キャとか言ってたわけだけど

A while ago, they used to call people otaku or socially awkward.

やっぱそれで差別じゃん

That's definitely discrimination.

で特定の例えばオタクの中にも明るい人いるし

For example, there are bright people even among specific groups like otaku.

なんか別に眼鏡かけてない人もいるし

Well, there are people who aren't wearing glasses, after all.

でもそれを一括りにオタクって言っちゃうと

But if you lump that all together as otaku...

俺はそんなことないとかオタク差別だとかって声を上げる人たちがいるじゃん

There are people who say things like "That's not true" or "It's discrimination against otaku," right?

地位牛に関しては声を上げないんだよね

They don't raise their voices about the status of cows, do they?

そうなんですね

I see.

僕地位牛ですけどみたいなことを言う人は

People who say things like "I'm a cow"

なかなかいないから

Because they're quite rare.

やんわりと当事者がいないような感じのディスり方というか

It's like a subtle way of dissing, as if the person involved isn't there.

バカにし方みたいなのが広がってるなっていうのは思ったりとか

I've thought that the way of mocking is spreading.

そうなんですね

I see.

しますね

I will do it.

なんでチーズ牛丼なんですかね

Why is it cheese gyudon, I wonder?

なんかちょっとプラスアルファのトッピングして

Add a little extra topping or something.

ちょっと体に悪いやつってことじゃない

It's not that it's really bad for your body.

食べ応えがあって体に悪いやつ

It's filling and bad for your body.

ちょっとお金持ってる人ってことなのかなって

I wonder if it means that they have a little bit of money.

そういうことじゃないです

It's not that kind of thing.

違うんですね

That's not it.

人件数高めの人ってことだとは思いますけれども

I think it's a person with a higher number of staff, but...

自炊をしない外食中心で脂っこいものっていうことだと思いますね

I think it means eating out a lot and relying on greasy food without cooking for oneself.

確かにチーズは脂質が高いですもんね

Certainly, cheese is high in fat.

そうそうそういう言葉を使わない人たちだと思います

Yes, I think they are people who do not use such words.

脂質が高いとかあんまり言わないのかなと思いますけど

I think people don’t really talk about high fat content that much.

なんかこう人をバカにし方っていうのも結構なんか進化してて悪質だなっていう思いますね

I feel that the way people mock others has evolved quite a bit and it can be quite malicious.

そうですね

That's right.

あとねなくなりつつある言葉みたいなのもね結構

Also, it feels like there are words that are gradually disappearing.

デモしてあります

It is being demonstrated.

ダイヤルを回すってもう言わないよね

You won't say to turn the dial anymore, right?

あああああ確かに

Ah, that's true.

ダイヤル回すって言わないよね

You don't say "turn the dial," do you?

日常生活でダイヤル回さないんですもんね

You don't really turn a dial in your daily life, do you?

回さないから

I won't turn it.

だから昔の映画でダイヤルを回せとか言われても

So even if they say to turn the dial in old movies...

多分何の意味かちょっとよくわかんないかなって

Maybe I don't really understand what it means.

確かに私それで言うとずっと気になってるんですけど

I have certainly been concerned about that for a long time, you know.

シャメってシャメトルって言うじゃないですか

They say "shame" and "shame tour," right?

シャメトル言ってたね

You mentioned Shametoru.

シャメトルって私未だに言わないんですからめっちゃ言ってるんですけど

I still don't say "shametoru," but I say it a lot.

言っちゃうんですけど写真付きメール

I'm going to say it, but it's an email with a photo.

今なんて言うんだろう

I wonder what they say now.

写真かな単純に

Is it simply a photo?

普通に写真って言うのかなと思って

I was wondering if it's just called a regular photo.

なるほどね

I see.

やっぱり柄系の時代だと

As expected, it's the era of patterned designs.

写メって言っちゃうんですよ

I end up saying "shame" (or "shame photo").

柄系世代いい

The pattern generation is good.

そういうのを

Something like that.

気になったことをずっとメモしている

I've been keeping notes on things that have caught my attention.

前髪を作るっていう

"I'm going to get bangs."

前髪は作りますよね

You'll be getting bangs, right?

これねでも男の人ほとんど言わない

You know, but men hardly ever say this.

なんて言うんですか

What do you call it?

なんとも言わない

I can't say anything.

前髪を作る公園

A park where bangs are made.

前髪があるっていう

They say having bangs.

前髪あるって言います

They say I have bangs.

今日はどうですか前髪

How is your bangs today?

今日別に前髪作ってない

I didn't make any bangs today.

作りました

I made it.

作った

I made it.

どう使い分けてる

How do you differentiate between them?

前髪があるというのは

Having bangs means that

目にかからない長さで前髪を切って

Cut the bangs to a length that doesn't reach the eyes.

で

So, then.

前髪を作れる前髪を作っているっていう感じで

It feels like I'm making bangs that I can create.

前髪がある状態にするための前髪を作るっていうことですよね

It means creating bangs in order to have bangs, right?

前髪を作るっていうのは

Creating bangs means

朝前髪をきちんとセットしたという

"I heard that you neatly styled your bangs in the morning."

なるほど

I see.

で使ってます

I am using it.

じゃあ前髪がある

Well, then I have bangs.

前髪があるは今日ここに存在している

Today, the bangs are here.

だからそう考えると

So when you think about it that way,

前髪は誰にでもあるじゃんって思うわけ

I think everyone has bangs, right?

あー

Ah—

いや男性はマイガーをやっていますよ

No, men are doing My Guy.

確かに

Certainly.

まあどうなんだろうなメイクとかをちゃんとするその男性

Well, I wonder about that, a man who takes his makeup seriously.

おしゃれ敏感な男性は前髪あるとか作るとかいうかも知れないですけど

Fashion-conscious men might say things like having or creating bangs.

別に前で分けてたって前髪 tiver じゃんて

It's not like it's divided in the front, it's just a front bangs, right?

確かにそれ前任うないって言いますよね

Indeed, they do say that there hasn't been a predecessor.

例えばその女性が前髪作るとか前髪があるって言ってる

For example, that woman is saying she has bangs or is making bangs.

言ってるのを聞いた時に

When I heard what you said

何を言ってんだろうって思ってる人がほとんどだと思います

I think most people are wondering what I'm talking about.

例えば男性だったら男性がよく使うけど女性は知らないとか

For example, there are words that men often use but women don't know.

女性はよく使うけど男性は知らないみたいな言葉も結構あるから

There are quite a few words that women often use but men seem not to know.

結構そこの分断があるなと思って

I think there's quite a divide there.

それこそ一昔前だと触覚を作る

That's exactly what creating tactile sensations was like a while ago.

触覚を作る

Create tactile sensation.

触覚作る触覚あるとか

Having a sense of touch creates a sense of touch.

触覚は確かに加工しないとできないじゃん

Touch can indeed only be achieved through processing.

でも前髪はあるから

But I have bangs.

前髪はあるから

Because I have bangs.

全部後ろに流してる場合ないんですよ

There's no way to just let everything flow behind you.

でも一番前の髪が前髪だから

But the hair at the front is the bangs.

だからそういう前髪を作るあるっていうのを

So that's why there's a way to create bangs like that.

どっからどこまでの意味なのかっていうのを聞き取り調査したりとかね

I conducted surveys to understand the meaning of what it encompasses.

確かに面白いですね

It’s certainly interesting, isn't it?

だから俺全然自分に関係ないけど

So it doesn't really have anything to do with me at all.

女性向けファッション誌のLINEとか登録して

謎の言葉とかいっぱい出てくる

There are many mysterious words popping up.

こんな言葉聞いたことないぞみたいな

I've never heard a word like that.

イエベハルってなんだみたいな

What is this "Ie Be Haru" anyway?

これもう男性ほとんど

This is almost all men.

知らないから

Because I don't know.

そうなんです

That's right.

みんな知ってんのよ女性に聞くと

Everyone knows it when you ask a woman.

骨格診断とパーソナル化学診断と

Skeletal diagnosis and personal chemical diagnosis.

全員通ってきてる道ですね

It's a path everyone has to go through.

どうですか?イエベハル分かります?

How is it? Do you understand "iebeharu"?

スタッフ誰も知らない

No one among the staff knows.

知らない

I don't know.

そうなのよ

That's right.

女性陣分かりますよね

The women understand, right?

当然なんです当然

Of course, it's obvious.

9割知ってます9割5分は知ってますけど

I know 90%, and I know 95% of it.

男性9割5分知らないっていう

About 95% of men don't know.

イエベみたいなね

Like an autumn theme, you know?

イエローベースのハルっていうやつ

It's the one called Haru with a yellow base.

ハルとアキがありまして

There are Haru and Aki.

そういうメモ

That kind of memo.

言葉沼ですよね

It's a swamp of words, isn't it?

そうですね

That's right.

気持ち悪いんであんまりもう話さないようにしてます

I feel weird, so I try not to talk too much anymore.

宮田さんどうですか?

How is Mr. Miyata?

学びの沼何にハマってます?

What are you getting hooked on in the swamp of learning?

そうですねやっぱり最近は

I see, after all, lately...

短歌に一番ハマってますね

I'm really hooked on tanka poetry.

短歌素晴らしいじゃないですか

Tanka is wonderful, isn't it?

そりゃそうだよね

That makes sense.

はい

Yes

名誉集もやってて現代短歌まで

I am also involved in compiling an honor collection, up to modern tanka poetry.

はいそうなんです

Yes, that's right.

それこそきっかけって大学の授業で

That was precisely the trigger in my university class.

現代短歌についての

About modern tanka.

多分あれ国学院の学びだったか

Maybe that was the learning from Kokugakuin.

日本文化を学ぶだったか

Was it to learn about Japanese culture?

そういう科目で

In that kind of subject.

現代短歌について勉強して

Study about modern tanka poetry.

最後に短歌20種作って提出する

Finally, I will create and submit 20 types of tanka.

みたいなのを取ってて

I'm taking something like that.

私それ

That's mine.

リモートワークとかの

Things like remote work.

リモート授業の機会にとって

For the opportunity of remote classes.

授業の最後に感想を送る

Send my thoughts at the end of the class.

記憶がないといけないんですけど

You need to have a memory, though.

それを私間違えて

I made a mistake with that.

感想か短歌3種作って

Please write three short poems or haikus as your impressions.

こう言ったんですけど

I said this.

感想と短歌3種だと思ってて

I think it's a review and three types of tanka.

毎回授業の度に

Every time there is a class.

短歌3種作って送り続けてたんですよ

I had been creating and sending three types of tanka.

感想とともに

With my thoughts included.

最後に短歌20種作ってってやって

Lastly, please create 20 types of tanka.

めちゃめちゃ頑張って

Do your best!

短歌作っちゃったタイプだったので

I was the type who ended up creating tanka poems.

ということはあたり15回あるとして

That means there are about 15 hits.

14、42

14, 42

やっぱ50種、60種ぐらいは作ったってこと?

So, you really made about 50 or 60 kinds, huh?

そうなんです

That's right.

それはもういい成績もらえたでしょもちろん

You've already received a good grade on that, right? Of course.

よかった気がします

I feel it was good.

そこからなんだ

That's where it starts.

はい、でいうので

Yes, that's what I'm saying.

慣れていたのもあってで

Because I was used to it.

前の仕事の時のラジオとかで

On the radio from my previous job.

短歌を学ぶことがあったりとか

There have been times when I learned about tanka.

あとはアイドル歌会っていう歌会に

"Next is a歌会 called Idol Song Meeting."

参加させていただいたりとかしたのをきっかけに

As a result of participating, etc.

短歌やるようになって

Since I started doing tanka.