『死ぬまで生きる日記』１冊目

おはようございます 山口 誠です

Good morning, this is Makoto Yamaguchi.

こんにちは 尾形 太郎です

Hello, I am Taro Ogata.

こんばんは 勝崎です

Good evening, this is Katsuzaki.

この番組は 読書家というわけでもなく 本好きというわけでもない

This program is not particularly for avid readers or book lovers.

20代大学生 30代アナウンサー 40代デザイナーという

A university student in their 20s, an announcer in their 30s, and a designer in their 40s.

生き方も趣味思考もバラバラの3人が 各種取り手に集まってお届けする

Three people with different lifestyles and hobbies come together to deliver a variety of offerings.

読書会ポッドキャストです

It's a book club podcast.

毎回1冊のいろんなジャンルの注目の本を読んで それぞれの視点で語り合います

Every time, we read a noteworthy book from various genres and discuss it from different perspectives.

通勤通学中に軽く聞ける15分ほどの番組で 全10回を予定しております

It is a program lasting about 15 minutes that can be casually listened to during commuting or going to school, and it is planned to have a total of 10 episodes.

はい ということで 第1回が始まりました

Yes, with that, the first session has begun.

うわぁ すごい なんか超始まった感じしましたね

Wow, amazing! It really felt like it just started something incredible.

なんかちょっと緊張してきました

I'm starting to feel a little nervous.

いやもうちょっと緊張しますね 今のね

Well, I'm a little more nervous now.

すごいしっかりしてたなぁ

That was really solid.

位置を持っているコンセプトなので

It's a concept that has a position.

あのー しっかりしてるね

Um, you seem really reliable.

おおー すごーい

Oh wow, that's amazing!

ちょっとアナウンサーの方がいる中 恐縮なんですけど

I'm a bit embarrassed to be among the announcers.

いやいやいや いやいや

No, no, no, no.

今日生放送を終えて今参加してるんですけど

I just finished the live broadcast today and I'm participating now.

生放送より緊張するかもしれない

It might be more nerve-wracking than a live broadcast.

本当っすよね 夕方の帯番組をね 務めてる

It's true, I'm hosting a late afternoon program.

脳科太郎さんですね

It's Mr. Nōka Tarō, isn't it?

ありがとうございます

Thank you.

いやいや どんでもないです めちゃくちゃ楽しみにしてました

No, no, not at all! I was really looking forward to it!

うわぁ いやいや どんでもないです めちゃくちゃ楽しみにしてました

Wow, no no, that's not true at all. I was really looking forward to it!

嬉しい なんかねあのはい太郎さんね単身赴任だから

I'm happy. Well, you see, Mr. Taro is on a solo assignment.

結構よるよる多分寂しいはずなんですよ

It's probably quite lonely at night.

ブーバーしながらやりたいんですよ ああじゃあこれちょうど良かったかもねちょっとした

I want to do it while having fun. Ah, then this might be just perfect, just a little.

あの癒しの時間で

During that healing time.

なるほどねっ ちょっと早速本題入りましょうか

I see. Well then, shall we get straight to the point?

ないん それでは隠し鳥での読書会スタートです

No, then let's start the reading session at the hidden bird.

ん

Hmm.

すべきこの第1巻に取り上げる本は土門蘭さんの死ぬまで生きる日記です 2023年4月に生き延びるブックスさんから出版されました

The book that should be featured in this first volume is "A Diary to Live Until Death" by Ran Domon, published by Survive Books in April 2023.

この本について生き延びるブックスの紹介文を

An introduction to the survival books about this book.

読み上げます

I will read it aloud.

生きづらさを抱えるすべての人に楽しいや嬉しい面白いといった感情はちゃんと味わえるそれなのに死にたいと思うのはなぜだろうカウンセラーや周囲との対話を通してままならない事故を掘り進めた記録ということです作者の土門蘭さんもご紹介したいと思います土門さんは1985年広島県生まれ小説や短歌などの文芸作品やインタビュー記事の執筆を行っていらっしゃいます

Why is it that people who carry difficulties in life can properly savor emotions like joy, happiness, and amusement, yet still want to die? This is a record of exploring these unmanageable circumstances through conversations with counselors and those around us. I would like to introduce the author, Ran Domon. Born in Hiroshima Prefecture in 1985, she writes literary works such as novels and tanka, as well as interview articles.

それなのに死にたいと思うのはなぜだろうカウンセラーや周囲との対話を通してままならない事故を掘り進めた記録ということです作者の土門蘭さんもご紹介したいと思います土門さんは1985年広島県生まれ小説や短歌などの文芸作品やインタビュー記事の執筆を行っていらっしゃいます

I wonder why I feel like I want to die despite that. This is a record of exploring the uncontrollable incidents through conversations with counselors and those around me. I would also like to introduce the author, Ran Domon. Ms. Domon was born in Hiroshima Prefecture in 1985 and has been writing literary works such as novels and tanka, as well as interview articles.

著書に加賀集100年後あなたも私もいない日にこちらへと寺田真由美さんとの共著とインタビュー記事の執筆を行っていらっしゃいます

You are writing a co-authored book and an interview article with Mayumi Terada titled "Kaga Collection: On a Day 100 Years from Now When Neither You nor I Will Be Here."

経営者の孤独小説戦争と5人の女エッセイそもそも交換日記こちらは桜林直子さんとの共著ですねこちらがあるということです

A novel about the loneliness of management, an essay on the war and five women, and originally a shared diary; this is a co-written work with Naoko Okabayashi.

はいということで早速この本についてお話ししていきたいと思うんですけどどんな風に皆さん読まれましたか

Yes, so I'd like to talk about this book right away, but how did everyone read it?

勝明さんいかがでした

How was Mr. Katsuaki?

はいえっと僕ねあの土門蘭さんってえっとツイッターかな

Yes, um, I think I saw Domon Ran-san on Twitter.

なんかネットで名前をお見かけするなというのが最初にあって

I first noticed the name somewhere on the internet.

他の本は失礼ながらまだ読んだことないんですけども

I'm sorry to say that I haven't read the other books yet.

この死ぬまで生きる日記っていうのが出た時に結構なんか僕がフォローしている人たちの中では話題になっていて

When this diary titled "Living Until Death" came out, it was quite a topic of discussion among the people I follow.

多分すごい全国的にね話題になっている本だと思うんですけども

I think it's probably a book that is really a hot topic nationwide.

なんか気にはなっていたんですよ

I was kind of concerned about it.

ただまあ

Well, anyway.

タイトルがタイトルなんで

It's called what it is.

あの自分で読もうとまでは思っていなかったんですけども

I didn’t think that I would go as far as to read it myself.

なんかこうつらくらいそうだなと思って

I thought it might be a bit painful or tough.

そうそうだから今回のそのねこの

Yes, yes, that's why this time it's about that cat.

隠し撮りでの読書会をきっかけに

Triggered by a secret recording of a book club.

あのせいちゃんから

From that Seichan.

これを課題図書にね上げていただいたんで

Since you have raised this as a recommended reading.

まあいい機会だなということで

Well, it's a good opportunity, isn't it?

土門蘭さんのあの文は読んでみたかったんで

I wanted to read that text by Ran Domon.

読んでみたっていうのが最初の

The first thing is that I tried reading it.

えー流れなんですけども

Well, as for the flow...

えっとまあなんつかね書かれている内容に関しての前に

Well, before we get to the content that is written...

まずそのめちゃめちゃ読みやすいですね

First of all, it's very easy to read.

その文章として

As that sentence.

そうですよね

That's right.

読みやすかった

It was easy to read.

でえっといわゆるノンフィクションみたいなものだと思うんですけども

Well, I think it's something like non-fiction.

結構小説っぽいなっていうか

It really feels like a novel, or rather.

あのー

Um...

なんだろうな

I wonder what it is.

こうすごい物語っぽい感じで読めたなと思いましたね

I thought it had a really amazing story-like feel to it.

その主人公がもちろん土門蘭さんなんですけど

The protagonist, of course, is Ran Domon.

えっとどうして私はこう死にたいと思うのかみたいな

Um, it's like, why do I want to die like this?

あの謎謎というのかなという答えを探して

I'm searching for the answer to that riddle, I guess.

まあずっと物語がそれを推進力に進んでいくんだと思うんですけども

Well, I think the story is going to move forward with that as its driving force.

そこにカウンセラーの方がいて

There is a counselor over there.

でそのカウンセラーの方との

With that counselor...

別れもあったりして

There were also goodbyes.

この辺ネタバレでもいいですよね

It's okay to have spoilers around here, right?

進んでいく

Move forward.

でちょっとその

Well then, um...

成長していくのかな

I wonder if I'll grow.

どうかなっていうところの

It's a place where I'm not sure.

話の流れが

The flow of the conversation.

すごい小説的というか

It's incredibly novel-like.

すごい読みやすく

Incredibly easy to read.

楽しくておかしいな

It's fun and funny.

面白く読めましたね

I found it interesting to read.

そうですねなんかこう本当土門さん自身の変化とか

Well, it’s like, really, the changes in Domon himself.

そういうのもものすごく丁寧に綴られてますね

That kind of thing is written very carefully.

ありますし

There is.

カウンセラーの本田さん

Counselor Honda.

最初こう

At first like this.

土門さんと一番初めにこうカウンセリングを始める

I will start the counseling with Domon-san for the very first time.

その本田さんのこう問題提起というか

Mr. Honda's issue of raising questions, I suppose.

いろいろこう問いを

Various questions like this.

問いとかなんか宿題を出されるじゃないですか

You get asked questions or given homework, right?

なんかこういうのがすごくこう

I kind of really feel like this.

なんて言うんでしょう

What should I say?

道筋だってどんどん展開されていくのもあって

The storyline continues to unfold more and more.

すごく読みやすいですし

It's very easy to read.

なんかある意味その死にたいとかっていうことを

In a way, it's like wanting to die or something like that.

思ったことがあるんですけども

I've been thinking about something.

本がない人でもなんかこう理解しながら読めるというか

Even people without books can somehow read while understanding.

なんかそういう本になってるのかなと思いました

I thought maybe that's what kind of book it is.

太郎さんはいかがでしたか

How was Taro-san?

あの実は私もちょっと共感するところがあって

Actually, I find myself relating to that a bit.

なんか死にたいっていう気持ち

I have a feeling that I want to die.

僕自身もねちょっと思うときが実はあったんですよ

I actually had moments when I thought about it a little myself.

でもそれって死にたい

But that makes me want to die.

その命を断ちたいっていう意味での

In the sense of wanting to end that life.

死にたいではなくて

It's not that I want to die.

この気持ち何なんだろうって思って

I wonder what this feeling is.

ずっと自分の中で不思議な感覚だったんですよね

It has always been a mysterious feeling within me.

で勝明さんと聖ちゃんに紹介してもらった

I was introduced by Katsuaki-san and Sei-chan.

この本を初めて読んで

This is my first time reading this book.

なんかちょっと自分の中の正解っていうか

It's like there's a bit of my own personal correctness.

俺ってこういう気持ちで死にたいっていう感情が

I have feelings like I want to die with this kind of emotion.

芽生えてたんだなっていうのが

I realize that it was budding.

分かったんですよね

I understand.

本当にあのちょっと本一回閉じて

Could you please close that book for a moment?

自分の胸に手当てて考えるぐらい

To think while placing a hand on my chest.

めちゃめちゃ共感することがあって

I can totally relate to that.

だから本当に出会えてよかったなって思う本でした

So I really felt it was great to have met this book.

めちゃくちゃ語りたかった

I really wanted to talk a lot.

あーいいですね

Ah, that's nice.

今日もすごい楽しみに

I'm really looking forward to today, too!

そうそう

That's right.

泣き上がる気持ちがあって

Feeling like I want to cry.

死にたいと思うことが自分の中で

The feeling of wanting to die is within me.

うわー俺って変わってるなーとか

Wow, I really am different, huh?

弱いなーって思う面も

I think there are also aspects that seem weak.

その時期あったので

It was a time when that happened.

この感情って何なんだろうなーって思ったら

I wonder what this feeling is.

まぁちょっとネタバレなるべくしないようにはするんですけど

Well, I'll try not to spoil too much if I can help it.

決して命を絶つっていう意味でも死ぬじゃなくて

It's not about ending one's life or dying, not at all.

もっとこう別の次元の意味での

In a more different-dimensional meaning.

死にたいっていう感情だったっていうのが

It was a feeling of wanting to die.

あーなんか自分の感情に近いなーって思いました

Ah, I felt like it was close to my own emotions.

なるほどね

I see.

なんかそのタイトルに現れてますよね

It shows up in that title, doesn't it?

その死ぬまで生きるっていうことっていうか

The idea of living until you die, or rather...

なんかすごいいいタイトルだなーと思って

I thought it was a really great title.

なんかこう中にも出てきてましたけど

It seemed to have come out in the middle there, but...

その死にたいっていう気持ちを抱えながら

While holding on to the feeling of wanting to die.

めちゃめちゃこう生きようとしているみたいな

It feels like I'm really trying to live like this.

そういうことをカウンセラーの方がおっしゃってた

The counselor was saying things like that.

セリフの中にもあったかなと思うので

I thought it might have been mentioned in the dialogue.

どう死ねるかを考えてるんじゃなくて

I'm not thinking about how to die.

それを抱えたままどう生きれるかみたいなことを

It's like wondering how to live while carrying that.

多分ずっと考えてる本だから

Maybe it's a book I've been thinking about for a long time.

なんかそういう刺さる部分みたいなのがあるのかなっていうのは

I wonder if there are parts that really resonate like that.

うんそうですよね

Yeah, that's right.

ちなみになんか太郎さんとこの辺こう共感できたっていうか

By the way, it's like I could relate to something with Taro-san around here.

そうですねあの死にたいっていう感情と

Well, that feeling of wanting to die...

顔屋になるっていう本があって

There's a book about becoming a face artist.

あーはいはい

Ah, yes yes.

なんかそれはなんかこう

Somehow, that's kind of like...

なんだろうこう

I wonder what this is.

ストレス社会を生き抜く上で

To survive in a stressful society

決して毎日楽しいことばかりではないと思うんですけど

I don't think it's always fun every day.

自分の感情をもう一人の自分が向き合うみたいな

It's like one part of myself is facing my emotions.

それを受け入れてあげるみたいなので

It seems like they will accept that.

すごく普遍的だなーって思いました

I thought it was really universal.

うんうん確かに確かに

Yeah, yeah, that's true, that's true.

あの私本が出版されてから東京であのイベントをされたことがあって

Um, after my book was published, there was an event held in Tokyo.

あのマリコさんとドモランさんの二人での合同のトークイベントで

At that joint talk event with Mariko and Domoran.

この本のイベントがあったので

There was an event for this book.

北沢に行ったんですけど

I went to Kitazawa, but...

おーすげー

Oh, that's amazing!

あのその時にもそのマザーリングのお話

Well, at that time, there was also the story about the mother link.

自分で自分のお母さんに

To my own mother.

はいはい

Yes, yes.

はい

Yes.

その時もドモンさんがされてて

At that time, Domon-san was also doing it.

であのこの本を書かれてた時よりも

Well, more than when this book was written.

なんかよりその自分の中のおかんがすごい育ってるみたいな話をされてて

It seems like someone was talking about how their inner mother is growing significantly.

なんか

Something.

いやーこの子なんなんなんですみたいなことを

Well, what on earth is this kid?

なんか自分で自分に言うみたいな

It feels like I'm talking to myself.

あのドモンさん関西の方なので

That Domon-san is from the Kansai region.

今関西に住んでらっしゃるので

Since you are currently living in Kansai,

ほんと関西弁であったかいおかんみたいな感じで

It's really like a warm mom with a Kansai dialect.

なんか自分で自分で言うみたいな感じで

It feels like I'm saying it myself or something.

自分で話されてたのが私の最も印象的で

What impressed me the most was when you were speaking on your own.

うんうんうん

Uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh.

なるほどね

I see.

素敵だなと思いました

I thought it was wonderful.

はいはいはい

Yes, yes, yes.

私もなんかあのどうしてもこう印象に残ってるシーンがあって

There’s a scene that really sticks in my mind for some reason.

今日見ましたいなって思ってたんですけど

I was thinking I wanted to see it today.

何回読んでもドモンさんが息子さんとお話をされるシーンで

No matter how many times I read it, the scene where Domon-san talks with his son...

うんうん

Uh-huh.

絶対に泣いてしまうんですね

You'll definitely end up crying, won't you?

なんかなんで泣くのかわからなくて

I don't really understand why I'm crying.

なんか私はその

I somehow feel that...

お子さんいいこと言いますよね

Your child says nice things, doesn't he/she?

いやすごく素敵なお子さんじゃないですか

Well, isn't that a really wonderful child?

でなんかこう

Well, something like this...

もちろん私はその子供を持ったことはないので

Of course, I have never had that child.

母としての立場とか

Regarding the position of being a mother, etc.

なんか気持ちみたいなのはわからないですし

I don't really understand the feeling or anything like that.

自分の身近にそういう風に悩んでる人が

People around me are struggling in that way.

いた

I was.

ご相談を受けたみたいな経験もあまりないので

I haven't really had much experience with consultations like that.

なんかどの立場でどうして涙が出るのか

I wonder from what position and why tears are coming out.

ちょっとわからないですし

I'm not quite sure.

わからないんですけど

I don't understand.

なんか絶対あのシーンを読むといつも泣いてしまって

I always end up crying when I read that scene for some reason.

なんかこう

Something like this...

ちょっとそれについてお話できたらなって思ったんですけど

I was thinking it would be nice to talk about that a little.

ドモンさんがその自分のこう

Mr. Domon has his own way of...

まあ死にたいっていう感情とずっと向き合って

Well, I've been facing the feeling of wanting to die for a long time.

でこうカウンセリングを経てこう変化してきた

Through this counseling, I have undergone changes.

ってなった時に

When that happens

そのお子さんがそれにこう気づいて

That child noticed it.

なんかこう最近すごい楽しそうで嬉しいみたいな

It seems like you've been having a lot of fun recently, and that makes me happy.

うんうん

Yeah, yeah.

楽しそうで嬉しいみたいなことを

It seems like you are happy and having fun.

こう話すシーンなんですけど

This is a scene where we talk like this.

うんうん

Uh-huh.

特にかつあきさんお子さんもいらっしゃると思うんですけど

I believe Mr. Katsuaki also has children.

そうですね

That's right.

まあでも

Well, then.

本当月並みなんですけど

It's really quite ordinary, but...

やっぱ自分なんかも子供に

After all, I too am like a child.

生かされてるなって思う

I feel like I'm being made to live.

思ってますけどね

I'm thinking about it, you know.

なんか

Something.

ちっちゃい時から

Since I was little.

赤ちゃんの時から思いますけどね

I've thought that since I was a baby.

なんかその

Well, um...

あの

Um...

まあ単純にこの子たちを育てなきゃいけないっていうのもあるし

Well, there's also the simple fact that I have to raise these kids.

義務感みたいなのもあるし

There’s also a sense of obligation.

それ以上になんかやっぱ

Beyond that, something... after all.

なんですかね

What is it, I wonder?

元気をもらうって言うんですかね

I guess you could say it gives me energy.

なんか

Something.

そういうのがやっぱり常にありますよね

That's something that always exists, isn't it?

だからなんかそのこっちが

So, somehow over here...

子供のことはなんか知ってるけど

I know something about kids, but...

。

.

子供は独立した別の人格の人間なんで

Children are independent individuals with their own personalities.

その子が何かこう思いもしないこととか

That child is thinking about something unexpected or unforeseen.

こんなところで気付いてたんだとか見てたんだっていうことを

I never realized that you noticed or were watching me in a place like this.

言葉にした時に

When it's put into words.

親としてはやっぱりこう

As a parent, I can't help but feel this way.

ドキッとするときってやっぱありますよね

There are definitely times when you feel a sudden shock, right?

だから

So.

そういう部分。

Such aspects.

なんですかね?

What could it be?

なんだろうなぁ

I wonder what it is.

私ね結婚はしてるんですけど

Well, I'm married.

まだ子供がいなくて

I still don't have children.

自分の子供に

To my own child

ハッとさせられる感覚みたいなものが

It's like a feeling that takes you by surprise.

まだ実感できてないのはあるんですけど

I still haven't fully realized it yet.

多分どのランさんのお子さんが

Maybe it's Ran's child.

すごいのではなくて

It's not amazing.

多分どのお子さんも

Maybe any child.

ちゃんと親御さんのことは

Make sure to take care of your parents.

見てるんだろうなっていう

I guess you're watching, huh?

それは感じたかもしれないですね

You might have felt that, huh?

ペットでもありますからね

Because they are also pets.

愛の話も

A story of love as well.

所々出てきたりして

Occasionally appearing here and there.

よく親から子供じゃなくて

Often, instead of children, parents...

子供から親に無償の愛っていうのは

The unconditional love from a child to a parent is

注がれてるんだみたいな話とか

It’s like a story about being poured into.

あると思うんですけど

I think there is.

なんか

Something.

自分の心に欠けてたものを

What was missing in my heart.

何かで埋めようとするみたいな話が

It's like a story about trying to fill something in.

出てきたと思うんですけど

I think it has come out.

途中で

On the way.

もしかしたらそういう

Maybe like that.

お子さんからの愛によって

By the love from your child.

その部分が

That part is

パチって埋まった瞬間というか

It's like the moment it suddenly gets buried.

ハマった瞬間でも

Even in the moment I was hooked

あったのかなとかって思ったりして

I wonder if it was there or not.

私は読んでましたね

I was reading.

ね

Right?

そうですね

That's right.

, 素敵な場面だなと思いました

I thought it was a wonderful scene.

ランさんの経験に嘘、偽り全くなくて

There is no lie or deception at all in Ran-san's experience.

全てを表現してる本だと思うんですけど

I think it's a book that expresses everything.

全然多分表現が重くなくて

It's probably not heavy in expression at all.

それがいいなって思いました

I thought that would be nice.

すごい思いますね

I think it's amazing.

読んだ後に重い気持ちに全くならない

I don't feel heavy at all after reading it.

はい、そうですよね

Yes, that's right.

そういうことを僕も

I feel the same way.

多分言いたかったんだと思います

I think that's what I wanted to say.

なんか物語っぽいっていうか

It feels somewhat like a story.

だから誰でも読めますよね

So anyone can read it, right?

そういう意味ではね

In that sense, yes.

本当に僕おすすめの本です

This is a book that I really recommend.

ひでちゃん結構本いつも読むんですか?

Hide-chan, do you read a lot of books?

いやそんなにたくさんは読まなくて

No, I don't need to read that much.

自分が興味を持ったものだったりとかっていうのは

Things that I have taken an interest in.

こう読んだりするんですけど

I read it like this.

私とその土門さんの出会いみたいなことを

It's like the story of my encounter with that Domon-san.

ちょっとだけお話ししておくと

Just to let you know a little bit...

もともと長野県にあるわざわざさんっていう

Originally, there is a place called Wazawaza-san in Nagano Prefecture.

会社というかお店があって

There is a company, or rather a store.

そこで去年の春頃に

So around last spring...

新しいお店というか施設というか

A new shop or rather a facility.

良き生活研究所っていうところをオープンしますよってなって

We are about to open a place called the Good Living Research Institute.

そのオープンイベントに行った時に

When I went to that open event

お会いしたのが土門さんで

I met Mr. Domon.

ちょうどその時わざわざの代表の平田さんが

At that moment, Mr. Hirata, the representative of Wazawaza, arrived.

本を出されるっていうので

Because they are going to publish a book.

そのライティングを土門さんがされていて

Mr. Domon is doing that writing.

そのオープニングイベントの中で

During that opening event.

その本にまつわるトークタイムというか

It's more like a talk time related to that book.

トークセッションの時間があって

There is a time for a talk session.

そこに土門さん登壇されていらっしゃって

Mr. Domon is taking the stage there.

なんかすごい土門さんの文章に対する考え方とか

I find it really impressive how Domon-san thinks about writing.

書くことに対する考え方とかとか

Thoughts about writing and so on.

みたいなのにすごく惹かれて

I'm really drawn to things like that.

この方の嘘がないというか

It's not that this person has no lies, but rather...

本当に言葉も本当のことを書きたいと

"I really want to write the truth with words."

いつも思ってるっていうのが始まると思うんですけど

I think it starts with what I always feel.

本当にそのまま言葉に全く何か嘘がないというか

It's like there's truly no lie at all in those words.

本当に正直な言葉を紡がれる人だなという風に思って

I think you are someone who weaves truly honest words.

この後またちょっと話そうと思うんですけど

I was thinking of talking a bit more after this.

自分自身が書くことに対する何かコンプレックスみたいなものを持ってたりしたので

I had some kind of complex about writing myself.

何かその土門さんの文章を読むことで

By reading Mr. Domon's writing,

そこが克服できるんじゃないかみたいな

It seems like that's something you could overcome.

ちょっとそういう望みとかもあって

I have some hopes like that too.

この方の書く正直な言葉っていうのを読みたいと思って

I want to read the honest words written by this person.

一番初めて読んだ本がこれだったっていうような感じ

It feels like this was the very first book I ever read.

本当にシンプルにファンっていう話を

It's really a simple story about fans.

書く言葉と話す言葉って

The words we write and the words we speak are...

どう違うんだろうっていうのを

I wonder how they are different.

すごく私は考えてて

I'm thinking a lot.

自分はすごく話すことは好きなんですけど

I really enjoy talking, but...

書くことはちょっと怖いというか苦手みたいなのがあって

Writing feels a bit scary or not my strong suit.

太郎さんも言葉を日々扱っていらっしゃると思うので

I think Taro-san also deals with words on a daily basis.

書くことと話すこと

Writing and speaking.

何か違いとか逆に一緒じゃないみたいなこととか

It's like there's something different, or conversely, it's not really the same.

何かちょっと考えてらっしゃることあったら

If you have been thinking about something, let me know.

ちょっとお聞きしたいなと

I just wanted to ask you something.

確かに僕も一応ですけど話すことを

Certainly, I also have something to talk about, just in case.

なりわいというか仕事にしていて

It's something like a livelihood or a job.

普段の放送ではカメラの向こうに

During the usual broadcast, behind the camera...

お子さんとおじいちゃんおばあちゃんがいるつもりでやってるんです

I’m doing this as if I have children and grandparents.

なるほどね

I see.

同じ世代じゃなくて

Not from the same generation.

より分かりやすく

To make it clearer.

ゆっくりと難しい言葉はなるべく平易な表現にして

Please try to express difficult words in simpler terms as much as possible.

っていうのは心がけてるんですけど

I am trying to keep that in mind.

なんかでも書くと話すって確かに

"Talking does indeed feel different than writing."

せいちゃん言ったみたいに違うなって思ってて

I thought it was different, just like Sei-chan said.

なんだろうな

I wonder what it is.

相手がいるから

Because there is someone else.

そうだね

That's right.

そうですね

That's right.

書く方が自分で考えて

"Writing makes you think for yourself."

なんかもっと自分の気持ちに向き合って

I need to face my feelings more.

時間かけて自分をこうさらけ出すというか

It's about taking time to really expose myself like this.

自分自身を表現するっていう意味では

In terms of expressing oneself

書く方が多分時間はかかるのかなって思ってますね

I think it probably takes more time to write.

別に話すことが時間かかるとは

It's not like it takes a long time to talk about it.

しかも時間かからないっていう意味じゃないんですけど

It doesn't mean that it won't take time, though.

なんかですね

Well, you see...

ちょっと上手く言えないけど

I can't quite put it into words, but...

もう分かりやすく伝えるっていう意味では

In terms of conveying it in a clearer manner...

一緒なのかもしれないですね

It might be together, after all.

うん

Yeah.

太郎さんも自分自身のことを話すみたいなことって

It seems like Taro wants to talk about himself.

あんまりないですよねきっと

There probably aren't many, right?

めちゃめちゃ苦手ですね

I'm really not good at it.

やっぱり取材相手の思いを伝えたいとか

I want to convey the thoughts of the interviewee after all.

この取り組みをいかに分かりやすく伝えるか

How to communicate this initiative in an easily understandable way.

みたいなところで

In a place like that.

仕事をしてきてる分

I've been working.

自分自身の感情を表現するって

Expressing your own emotions is...

めちゃくちゃ難しいですよね

It's super difficult, isn't it?

難しいと思います

I think it's difficult.

だからやっぱりランさんの本すごいなって

That's why I really think Ran's book is amazing.

本当にすごい

That's really amazing.

それではここからは

From here on,

私のための言葉ということで

Words meant for me.

皆さんが一番グッときた一文を

Please share the sentence that struck you the most.

今までもちょっと印象に残ったところとか

"Places that have left an impression on me until now."

話してたと思うんですけど

I think we were talking about it.

本の中で一番グッときたところ

The part that moved me the most in the book.

教えていただきたいなと思います

I would like you to teach me.

順番どうしましょう

What order should we follow?

とりあえず僕からやりましょうか

Shall I go ahead and do it for now?

はい

Yes.

お願いします

Please.

40代男性から

From a man in his 40s.

あのね

You know.

グッときた一文とはちょっと違うかもしれないけども

It might be a little different from a sentence that really hits home, but...

この本の中に

In this book

一冊の本が出てくるんですよ

A book is coming out.

完全自殺マニュアルっていうね

It's called the Complete Manual of Suicide.

本のことが多分出てくると思うんだけど

I think there will probably be a lot about books.

これって僕はすごい世代なんですよ

I belong to an amazing generation.

僕が15歳ぐらいの時に出た本で

It’s a book that came out when I was around 15 years old.

ベストラッセラーになって

Become a bestseller.

100万部ぐらい売れてて

It has sold about a million copies.

僕もね

Me too.

死にたいとか全然ないんだけども

I don't really want to die at all, though.

死んだらどうなるんだろうとか

I wonder what happens when we die.

死についてやっぱ考えるんですよね

I can’t help but think about death, after all.

思春期だったから

Because I was in my teenage years.

全然深刻なことでもなんでもなくて

It's not serious at all or anything like that.

ただ単に怖いもの見たとか

It's just something scary I saw.

興味関心があったから

Because I had an interest.

普通に買って読んだんですよ

I bought it normally and read it.

僕はね

I am you.

で

So.

まあそれはそれで面白い本だなと思ったんだけど

Well, I thought it was an interesting book in its own way.

まあ親はめっちゃ心配してましたけどね

Well, my parents were really worried about it.

なんで読んでんだみたいな

"Why are you reading it?"

社会的にもいろいろ話題にもなったんですけど

It became a topic of discussion in society as well.

実際wikipediaとか見たらですね

If you actually look at Wikipedia,

特にそれでリサーチ者が増えたっていうデータは出てないし

There is no data indicating that this has particularly increased the number of researchers.

あの特に何の影響もないというか

Well, it doesn't really have any particular impact.

死について考えることとか

Thinking about death.

思うことっていうのは

What I think is that

本当に何も悪いことなくて

There's really nothing wrong at all.

タブーでもなんでもないっていうか

It's not really a taboo or anything.

なんかやっぱりそういうのをちょっと思い出しましたね

I somehow recalled things like that again.

これ読んでから

After reading this.

なんかその死にたいって思うことも

It's kind of like the feeling of wanting to die.

全然悪いことじゃないし

It's not a bad thing at all.

死について考えることとか

Thinking about death and such

死んだらどうなるんだろうとか

I wonder what happens when we die.

無邪気に考えることっていうのは

Thinking innocently is...

何も悪いことないよなって思ったっていう感じですね

It feels like I thought that there’s nothing wrong, right?

改めて

Again

うん

Yeah.

ありがとうございます

Thank you.

じゃあ続いて

Well then, let's continue.

30代の男性です

I am a man in my 30s.

30代男性

Men in their 30s

僕もそうですね

I feel the same way.

印象に残ったフレーズは

A phrase that left an impression.

火星人

Martian

ああ

Ah.

あれ印象的ですよね

That's impressive, isn't it?

なるほど

I see.

なんかその自分にとっての火星

Somehow, it's like my own Mars.

で

and

多分誰もがあるっていうか

Maybe everyone has it.

ここに帰ると安心すると

I feel安心 when I come back here.

これをしてる時の自分が一番幸せだみたいな

It's like I'm the happiest when I'm doing this.

火星と表現したのが

What was expressed as Mars?

なんかすごく腹起きしたというか

I feel like I'm really hungry or something.

あー分かる分かるって思いましたね

Ah, I totally get it.

はいはいはいはい

Yes, yes, yes, yes.

僕もそのちょっと最初の方言いましたけど

I also mentioned that a little bit at the beginning.

その死にたいっていう

"I want to die."

感情が芽生えた経験があったので

Because I had the experience of emotions blossoming.

決してその

Never that.

なんだろう

I wonder what it is.

辛くて

It's辛くて.

もう命を断ちたいじゃなくて

It's not that I want to end my life.

あっ自分にとっての火星に戻りたかったんだみたいな

Ah, it was like I wanted to go back to my own Mars.

なんかそういうところで

In places like that.

なんかはい

Somehow, yes.

なんかあっ自分にとっての火星って

Somehow, for me, Mars is...

こんなことだろうなっていうのを

I guess it would be something like this.

次の日自転車乗りながら

The next day, while riding my bicycle.

考えて

Think about it.

おもろいっすねなるほどな

That's interesting, I see.

すごいキーワードですよね

It's an amazing keyword, isn't it?

キーワードっすよねほんとほんと

It's really a keyword, for sure.

なんかその

Well, um...

今を生きてる現世と

The present world we are living in now.

死後の世界と

The afterlife and

その別の火星っていうのがある

There is another Mars.

っていうかね

I mean, you know...

なんかそれすごい面白いですよね

That sounds really interesting, doesn't it?

なるほどな

I see.

ちょうど私のなんか印象に残ったところっていうか

It's just that there was something that left an impression on me.

グッときたところがちょうどそこだったので

That was exactly the moment that got to me.

あの抜き出してというか

Well, it’s more like saying to extract...

あの特にって思ったところを

That's the part that I thought was particularly noteworthy.

あの読もうかなと思うんですけど

I'm thinking of reading that.

ぜひ

Certainly.

地球上の誰に理解されなくてもいい

I don't need to be understood by anyone on Earth.

誰に認められなくてもいい

I don't need to be recognized by anyone.

だって私は火星人なんだから

Because I'm a Martian.

自由に思うがままに自分のことを知ってもいいんだよ

It's okay to freely know about yourself as you wish.

言葉で書いたらいい

It's best to write it in words.

っていう風に書かれてて

It's written like that.

でなんか私その書くのが苦手みたいな

Well, it seems I'm not so good at writing.

自分のこと書けないみたいな話を

It's like talking about not being able to write about oneself.

こうちょっとしたけど

I did a little bit of this.

なんかやっぱ私ってこう書くことをしようとした時に

When I try to write like this, it seems like...

もしそれが誰も見ていないもの

If it’s something that no one is watching.

誰も見ない

Nobody sees.

自分のなんか日記とかメモ帳だったとしても

Even if it's just my own diary or notebook.

なんかこうそこにあることが

It feels like just being there.

正しい言葉でなければいけないみたいな

It seems like it has to be the right words.

なんかちょっとそういうプレッシャーというか

It’s just that kind of pressure, or something like that.

なんか

Somehow

言葉に対する責任

Responsibility towards words.

みたいなものを

like something like that

すごくこう書こうとする時に感じて

I feel this when I try to write something really great.

なんかそれが自分で

Somehow that's something I do myself.

こうストップをかけて

"Like this, put a stop to it."

書けないみたいなことが結構

It seems like there's quite a bit that I can't write.

あるんですね

It exists, doesn't it?

でもこうこの文章を

But this sentence...

読んだ時に

When I read it

その

That

地球上の誰に理解されなくてもいい

I don't need to be understood by anyone on Earth.

誰に認められなくてもいいっていうのが

It's okay if no one acknowledges me.

まあそうだよなって

Well, that's true.

改めて気づけたというか

It's more like I've realized it anew.

なんかこう

Something like this.

今そうやって自分で自分に

Right now, by doing that to yourself.

ストップをかけているのを

Stopping it.

なんかもっと優しくなってあげてもいいんじゃないかというか

I feel like we could be a bit kinder, or something like that.

なんか不完全なことでもいいから

It's okay even if it's something incomplete.

なんかこう書き残してあげることで

By writing something like this,

そういう自分にとっての

For someone like me,

火星みたいな

Like Mars

精神世界みたいなものが

Something like a spiritual world.

もっと広がっていったりするのかなと思って

I was wondering if it would spread more.

なんかすごいこう書くっていうことに対する

It's something really amazing about writing.

勇気をめっちゃもらった

I received a lot of courage.

とか

etc.

思うところだったのですごいそれが印象に残ってて

I had been thinking about it, so it left a strong impression on me.

なんか密かに今

Somehow secretly right now.

日記って毎日書こうとかってすると

When you think about writing a diary every day...

またきつくなるので

It will become tight again.

何かこう自分の気持ちが動いた時とかに

When something moves my feelings, or at times like that.

最近はこう書いて残すことを

Recently, I've been writing and leaving it like this.

あのちょっとずつ

That little by little.

そういうのができるようになったのは

I became able to do things like that.

すごいやっぱこの本がきっかけだったなって思ってるので

I really think that this book was the trigger for me.

いいですね

That sounds good.

グッときた

It hit me hard.

はいということで第一回のこの隠し砦の読書会見で

Yes, so this is the first meeting of the hidden fortress book club.

今回はいかがでしたでしょうか

How was it this time?

この番組はスポーティファイや

This program is on Spotify and

アップルポッドキャストでお送りしております

We are delivering this through Apple Podcasts.

ぜひお気に入り登録して

Please be sure to add it to your favorites.

聞いていただけたら嬉しいです

I would be happy if you could listen to me.

ありがとうございました

Thank you very much.