村山利栄さん後編！ゴールドマンサックス勤務22年のキャリアから導き出される「ビジネスサバイバル術」とは・・・

interfm

Investor's Sunday

インターファームインベストサンデー西田増美です

I am Masumi Nishida from Interfarm Invest Sunday.

江津玲優子です

I am Reiko Gotu.

それではゲストをご紹介しましょう

Now, let's introduce our guest.

村山理恵さんです

This is Rie Murayama.

おはようございます

Good morning.

それでは村山さんのプロフィールを簡単にご紹介します

Now, let me give a brief introduction of Mr. Murayama's profile.

1981年安田信託銀行現在の水尾信託銀行に入港

In 1981, Yasuda Trust Bank entered the port, which is now Mizuho Trust Bank.

1988年クレディスイスファーストボストン証券

1988 Credit Suisse First Boston Securities

後のクレディスイス証券に入社

Later joined Credit Suisse Securities.

1993年ゴールドマンサックス証券会社入社

Joined Goldman Sachs Securities in 1993.

そして2001年にゴールドマンサックスの

And in 2001, at Goldman Sachs,

マネージングディレクターに就任されます

You will be appointed as the managing director.

その後は総合規制改革会議員経団連国交省等の政府員を歴任

After that, he served as a member of the Comprehensive Regulatory Reform Council, the Japan Business Federation, and the Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism, among other government positions.

国立国際医療研究センター

National Center for Global Health and Medicine

新生銀行などで社外取締役

Outside director at Shinsei Bank and others.

また理事として活動

Also active as a director.

現在はインフロニアホルディングス株式会社

Currently, it is Inphronia Holdings Co., Ltd.

株式会社ライスカレー

Rice Curry Co., Ltd.

株式会社トゥルーデータの社外取締役

Outside Director of True Data Inc.

学校法人山野学園幹事を務めていらっしゃいます

You are serving as a secretary for the Yamano Gakuen Educational Institution.

女性の活躍する場ですとか

Places where women can thrive.

活躍を増やそうというふうに歴代の首相であったりですとか

"Such as past prime ministers who have aimed to increase their activities."

世間が言われていく中で

As the world keeps saying...

実際その現場管理職業務執行役員など

In fact, the site management, job execution officers, etc.

女性の活躍する場ですとか比率っていうのは

It's about the opportunities and ratios for women to thrive.

上がっていってるもんなんですかね

I wonder if it's really going up.

少しずつ上がっているけどまだグローバルスタンドードでは非常に低くて

It's gradually rising, but it's still very low compared to the global standard.

この前もなんかランキングが出ましたけれども

There was some kind of ranking that came out recently, though.

目を覚えたくなるような位置にいるっていうのが実情だと思います

I think the reality is that I'm in a position that makes me want to wake up.

最下位でした

I was in last place.

最下位に近い最下位チームですよね

It's a team that's close to being in last place.

下から2番目とか

Second from the bottom or something.

下から何番目のやる

Which number from the bottom will you do?

はい

Yes

最下位チームってやつですよね

It's the last-place team, isn't it?

そこにいるのは雇用金等をサボったツケが思いっきり出てきてるんだと思いますけど

I think what's there is a result of neglecting things like employment benefits.

これからだからこの比率は上げざるを得ないし

From now on, we have no choice but to increase this ratio.

上げるべきだし上がっていくんじゃないかなと

I think it should rise, and it will probably rise.

というのは日本のその男性生産人口に占める男性の割合

That is the proportion of men in the male working population in Japan.

世界に比率は6%とかそんな感じなの

The ratio in the world is around 6% or something like that.

6%よりもっと低かったかもしれませんけど

It might have been lower than 6%.

本当にマイノリティなんですね

It's truly a minority, isn't it?

はい

Yes

これだけ生産人口に占める男性の割合世界に比率は6%とかそんな感じなの

The percentage of men among the working population in the world is around 6% or something like that.

これだけ生産人口国内で下がっていく中で

With such a decrease in the working population domestically,

雇用を維持するためにはもうダイバーシティを利かせざるを得ないですし

In order to maintain employment, we have no choice but to leverage diversity.

ダイバーシティがないとイノベーションは生まれないので

Without diversity, innovation cannot arise.

そういう形をやっと今

Finally, in that form, now.

日本のいろんな会社の経営人の方が今自覚されていると思いますので

I believe many executives from various companies in Japan are becoming aware of this now.

これからは上がっていかざるを得ないと思っています

I believe that from now on, we have no choice but to rise.

アファーマティブアクションに関して

Regarding affirmative action

昔私はどうかなと思ってたんですけど

I used to wonder what it would be like back in the day.

これだけ長年ダイバーシティでああだふうだって言って

"For so many years, we've been saying this and that about diversity."

これだけ何も変わってないんだから

Nothing has changed at all.

やっぱり私はアファーマティブアクションは今はもう必要だなというふうに思っていて

I still believe that affirmative action is necessary now.

社外取締役の女性の数を増やすっていうのは

Increasing the number of female outside directors is...

これ表層的な話なので

This is a superficial story, so...

やはり現場の執行ディシジョンメイキングプロセスに

As expected, the decision-making process at the scene of execution.

女性がちゃんと入っていかないとどうにもならないので

If women don't get involved properly, there's nothing that can be done.

そこに対して本当に注力していかざるを得ないんじゃないかなというふうに思っています

I think we really have no choice but to focus on that.

社外取締役と外部からお呼びする感じになるので

It will feel like we are inviting an outside director from outside the company.

本当だと業務が

If it's true, then the business...

業務執行のプロパーの人たちが上にきちんと上がって

The proper people in charge of business operations are coming up properly.

そうなんですよ

That's right.

なればいいけど

I hope that's the case.

そもそものパイが

The original pie.

アスミさんがおっしゃるように

As Ms. Asumi said

女性がもともと少ない中で

With women originally being scarce...

途中で辞められる方も多くて

Many people quit along the way.

なかなか業務執行で役員に上がるっていうのが難しいですよね

It's quite difficult to be promoted to an executive position through performance in the business, isn't it?

これですから今までのやり方

This is why the way we've been doing it until now.

今までの考え方は圧倒的に変えて改めていかなければいけないと思うんですね

I think we need to completely change our way of thinking and reassess it.

先ほどアファーマティブアクション必要だと思いますって申し上げましたけれども

I just mentioned that I think affirmative action is necessary.

この手の話を企業でしていますとですね

When discussing this kind of topic in a corporate setting,

必ずマジックワードが出てくるんです

The magic words will definitely come up.

マジックワード

Magic word

不公平です

It's unfair.

不平等です

It's unfair.

女性だからというのは不公平だし

It's unfair just because she's a woman.

男性社員のモチベーションが下がりますと

When the motivation of male employees decreases,

実際に先日NHKでもそんな番組をやっていて

Actually, there was a program like that on NHK the other day.

大学生の息子が女性だからいいなとか

It's nice that my son, a university student, is a woman.

女性ばっかり取り上げられていいなみたいな話をする

It's a conversation about how it's nice that only women are being focused on.

今のこの直近だと逆にっていうことですよね

It’s the opposite in this immediate situation, isn’t it?

それがやはり非常に阻害要因になっていると思うんですけれども

I believe that is indeed a very significant inhibiting factor.

よく女性でプロモートされた方が

Often, women who have been promoted...

私のところに自分は下駄を履かされていて

I am being made to wear wooden sandals.

辛いというようなご相談を受けることがあるんですけれども

I sometimes receive consultations that mention it's difficult.

その時いつも言うんですけれども

I always say this at that time, but...

分かりました目を閉じてあなたの歴代の上司の顔を思い浮かべてください

Got it. Please close your eyes and imagine the faces of your past bosses.

下駄履いてる人いっぱいいましたよね

There were a lot of people wearing geta, right?

ちょっと増美さんが深くうなずいてるんですけど

Masumi is nodding deeply a little bit.

多分車で聞いてる皆さんうなずいてると思います

I think everyone listening in their cars is nodding along.

不平等とか不公平っていうのを今あえて言ってらっしゃいますけど

You're deliberately mentioning inequality and unfairness right now, but...

じゃあ今不公平じゃなくて今平等なんですか

So is it equal now and not unfair?

そこで急に女性がどうもとかいうことになった途端に

Then, suddenly, when a woman said something like "Thank you,"

不公平なことはできませんっていうようなことをおっしゃるのは

It's like saying that we cannot do anything unfair.

おかしいと思うんですね

I think it's strange.

じゃあこの非常に歪んだ構造をずっと続けていくおつもりですか

So, do you intend to continue this very distorted structure?

例えばよく言われるのは

For example, it's often said that...

いや以前も女性をちゃんと

Well, I did properly deal with women before too.

したんですでもなかなか続かなくて本人の方が辛くなってやめてしまったんです

I tried, but it was difficult to continue, and the person ended up feeling worse and quit.

だからやはり日本社会は難しいんですねみたいな感じでちゃんちゃんと終わらせることをおっしゃる方々

So there are people who say things like, "That's why Japanese society is indeed difficult," and they just neatly wrap it up.

それなりにいらっしゃるんですけれども

There are a fair number of them, but...

その時私いつもお伺いするんですけれども

At that time, I always ask.

じゃあその女性の方を幹部に登用した時に

Well, when that woman was promoted to an executive position...

その人をお客様に挨拶周りに連れて行くのは誰でしたか

Who took that person to greet the customers?

よ前任の人です

It is the previous person.

前任の人が誰ですか

Who was the person before?

ダメです本当にこの人を初めて女性としてこのポジションに持っていくんだったらば

It’s really not good, especially if this person is being put in this position as a woman for the first time.

その方をお客様周りに連れて行くのは社長あなたもしくはそこの例えば支店だったら支店長とか

Taking that person around the customers should be done by the president or, for example, the branch manager if it is at a branch.

前任の方じゃないんです

It's not the previous person.

前任の方が普通に連れて行ったら確かに業界によりますしお客様によりますから

If the person before me took them normally, it definitely depends on the industry and the customer.

個別性非常に強い話でひとっくりに話すのは危険ですけれども確かにああそうみたいな形で

It's a very individualized topic, so discussing it all at once can be risky, but it certainly seems to be that way.

確かにああそうみたいな形で

"Certainly, it seems like that."

流されてしまってですねこういろいろ難しいことがある可能性もありますけれどもそこに本当に責任者と思われる方がついてきてくださって弊社としても非常に重要な役割だと思っているのでぜひよろしくお願いしますと何かありましたら私に直接ご連絡くださいというふうにおっしゃってくだされば

There may be various difficulties as things may go awry, but I believe it is extremely important for someone who is truly responsible to accompany us, so I would appreciate your support. If there is anything, please feel free to contact me directly.

であとプロモーションしっぱなしまダメなんですねプロモーションしたからには責任を持ってですね何ヶ月に一度その人とワンノーワンで見たりとか

So, you can't just keep promoting without follow-up. Once you promote, you have to take responsibility and check in with the person one-on-one every few months.

であとプロモーションしっぱなしまダメなんですねプロモーションしたからには責任を持ってですね何ヶ月に一度その人とワンノーワンで見たりとかゴールドマンサックスはその辺は非常にちゃんとやってくれていましたでもそういうのが何かあまりこう

"So it's not good to just keep promoting without follow-up. Once you've promoted someone, you have to take responsibility and meet with them one-on-one every few months. Goldman Sachs was very diligent about that, but it seems like not many others do."

ゴールドマンサックスはその辺は非常にちゃんとやってくれていましたでもそういうのが何かあまりこう

Goldman Sachs was very reliable in that regard, but it doesn't seem like that kind of thing is very...

日本の会社では見ないので

Because I don't see it in Japanese companies.

プロモーションした以上

Since we have promoted it,

任命責任もちゃんと感じて

"I also feel the responsibility of my appointment."

その人がちゃんと定着するように

So that that person can settle in properly.

うまくできるように

To be able to do it well.

最大限のサポートをせずして

Without providing maximum support.

投与したけどダメでしたっていうのは

"I administered it, but it didn’t work."

私それは本当になしだと思っています

I really think that is nothing.

日本企業にあるあるあるかもしれないですけれども

It might be something that commonly happens in Japanese companies, but...

どちらかというと

Rather, it is more like...

より大変な思いをさせようですとか

It seems like I am trying to make things more difficult for you.

かわいい子は他人に落とす

Cute girls attract others.

っていうことわざがあるほど

There is a proverb that says so.

結構やっぱそっちに行きがちだとは思うんですが

I think you tend to go that way quite a bit, after all.

ただ僕は割とそうではなくて

But I'm not really like that.

やっぱりこの活躍する場を提供する上では

After all, in providing a place for this kind of activity...

やっぱり最大限にサポートしないと

After all, we have to provide maximum support.

やっぱり伸びし量のある人は伸びないですし

After all, people who have the potential to grow don't really grow.

むしろ過酷な労働環境に置くことの方が

Rather, it is more about placing them in a harsh working environment.

機械損失の方が高いというふうに考えて

Thinking that the machine loss is higher.

やっぱりその方が自信を持って

I guess that's the way to feel more confident.

お客さんの前に立ってもらうためには

In order to stand in front of the customer.

やはり先ほどおっしゃったような

As you mentioned earlier.

社長のような立場の高い方が

Someone in a high position like the president.

彼女があると思います

I think there is someone.

やっぱり僕もずっと外資系に働いてきたので

After all, I've been working in foreign companies for a long time too.

日本企業は分かっているとは全然思わないんですけど

I don't think Japanese companies understand it at all.

むしろ一番分かっていないと言っても

Rather, I would say that I understand the least.

おかしくないと思うんですけれども

I don't think it's strange, though.

でも海外の企業で勤めていると

But when working for a foreign company...

いわゆる社内スポンサー

So-called internal sponsor.

引き上げてくれるというような

It's like saying you'll lift me up.

スポンサーの方が必ずあったりして

There are always sponsors involved.

そういったサポートというのは

Such support is

本当にすごく大事だと考えるので

I really think it's very important.

オープンな戦場にボーンと捨てるのではなくて

Rather than just being thrown into an open battlefield.

要所要所でちゃんとサポートするというのが

"Providing proper support at key points."

本当に大事だとは感じます

I truly feel it is important.

メンターの存在ってすごく大きいと思ってまして

I think the presence of a mentor is really significant.

JS本当にありがたかったのは

What I was really grateful for about JS is...

メンターとかメンティーとかそういうのを

Things like mentor and mentee.

会社がすごく意識して

The company is very conscious of it.

作ってくれたり

Make it for me.

そういう土壌があるから自分からも

Because there is such an environment, I also...

この人私のメンターになってほしいなと思うと

I want this person to become my mentor.

自分からお願いしに

To ask for it myself.

自家ランパンしてメンターになってもらったり

I had them become my mentor by doing my own lamping.

そういう方たちにキャリアの相談をすることで

By consulting with those kinds of people about my career...

非常に救われた部分があります

There are parts that are very comforting.

例えば22年の間には確かに

For example, during the 22 years, there was certainly...

仕事が辛いってやめようと思ったことはなかったですけど

I've never thought about quitting because work is hard, though.

やっぱり子育ての両立というところで

After all, it's about balancing childcare.

非常に辛く思った時期もあって

There was a time when I felt very辛く.

その時にアメリカから来た女性の先輩に

At that time, to the senior woman who came from America,

メンターになってもらったりとかそういうのを

Like becoming a mentor or something like that.

もらってた方に私は母親としても60点

I give myself a score of 60 as a mother to the person I received from.

社会人としても60点

As a working adult, I also score 60 points.

ビジネスマンとしても60点

As a businessman, I rate myself a 60 out of 100.

非常に辛いっていう涙ポロポロ流しながら

While tears are streaming down, saying it's extremely painful.

その人に言ったら

If I told that person

私のメンターだったアメリカの女性の方が

The American woman who was my mentor

いえ60たす60は120

No, 60 plus 60 is 120.

言ってくれて

Thank you for saying that.

私その一言で救われて

I was saved by that one word.

めっちゃいいですね

That's really good!

救われてそっか60たす60は120

I’m glad to be saved, so 60 plus 60 is 120.

あとプラス言っていただいたのは

Also, what you mentioned as a plus is...

あなたフルコース子供も育てて

You raise a full-course child too.

仕事もしたいという

I want to work too.

選んだんだからフルコースはアラカルトより

Since you chose it, a full course is better than à la carte.

料金高いのよ

The price is high.

言われてすごく

I was really told.

ものすごく救われたんですね

You were incredibly saved, weren't you?

だからやっぱりそういう

So that's why, after all, like that...

メンターメンティーみたいなこともそうですし

It's like a mentor-mentee relationship.

あと本当にプロモートしたんだったら

"Also, if you really promoted it..."

責任持ってスポンサーとなって

Become a sponsor responsibly.

よくキックスタートって

It's often called a kickstart.

言いますけど特に

I will say it, but especially...

仕事は戦場だと思っているので

I think of work as a battlefield.

しょうがないんですけど戦場に出すんだったら

It's inevitable, but if you're going to send them into battle...

戦い方をちゃんと

Proper way of fighting.

伝授する

to impart or teach

メンターつけてあげると

I'll pair you up with a mentor.

そういうのが

That's the kind of thing.

あそこに行くと

If you go there,

こういう奴らが右から大砲を放ってくるから

It's because guys like this are firing cannons from the right.

そこで

So, there.

北前進するとか

Are you saying to go north?

あるじゃないですか戦い方って

Isn't there a way to fight?

そういうのを戦略的にやるのと

Doing that strategically and...

任命してはい頑張れ

"You're appointed, now do your best."

みたいな感じでポンと出すので

I'll just go ahead and put it out there.

それはね3秒ぐらいで死んでもしょうがないですよね

Well, it can't be helped if you die in about three seconds.

たまにあたって

Sometimes it hits.

ですのでそこをもうちょっと戦略的に

So let's approach that a bit more strategically.

やっていただきたいなという風に

I would like you to do it.

すごく思います

I think it's amazing.

武器を持たさないと

We need to not let them carry weapons.

戦えないですもんね

You can't fight, can you?

丸腰でねバンバンバンバンするとこに行かせたら

If you send them to a place like that unarmed, they'll just get shot down.

それはもう

That’s already...

全てにおいてありえないと思います

I think it's unconceivable in every way.

集中砲火を浴びてしまうと

If you get caught in concentrated fire

集中砲火を浴びて特に新人だから目立つ

Being under concentrated fire, especially as a newcomer, stands out.

本当殺されてしまうので

I might really be killed.

そこを

There.

だからそこは人的資本

So that's where human capital comes in.

この人本当に殺していいんですか

Is it really okay to kill this person?

っていうこともちゃんと考えて

Please make sure to think about that properly too.

任命した以上は

Once appointed,

何人かがかりでちゃんとガイダンスして

A few people should properly provide guidance.

守って特に

Especially to protect.

キックスタートの時期はですね

The timing for the kickstart is...

やってあげないと

I have to do it for you.

そりゃあ無理でしょ

Well, that's impossible.

っていう感じはしますね

I have that kind of feeling.

あと専門外ですけど

Well, it's outside my area of expertise, but...

セカハラも結構多いと思いました

I thought there was quite a lot of sekahara (sexual harassment).

男性から女性の

From man to woman

アメリカに行くと

When I go to America

そういった言動とかあると

When there are actions or words like that,

速攻人事とかに

"Quickly to personnel matters, etc."

行って

Go.

多分訴訟の対象とか

Maybe it's something that could be subject to a lawsuit.

訴訟が多い国ですからね

It's a country with many lawsuits, after all.

あと首

Also, the neck.

速攻首になるんですけれども

I'll be fired immediately, but...

日本は割とその

Japan is relatively that.

許容範囲が広いと言いますか

I would say the tolerance range is wide.

昔は結構ね

In the past, quite a bit.

もっと広かったと思うんですけれども

I thought it was larger.

今だいぶ厳しくはなってきましたけど

It's become quite tough now, but...

普通に言われたら

If you say it normally,

アメリカで言ったら

If you were to say it in America.

首になるようなレベルも

A level that could get you fired.

結構日本人の女性は

Quite a few Japanese women are...

笑いながら

While laughing

なんとかさんダメですよみたいな

It's like saying "someone shouldn't do that."

カルチャーがあると思って

I think there is a culture.

あれも

That too.

ごめんなさい僕全然専門外なんで

I'm sorry, but this is completely outside of my expertise.

何言ってもいいですけど

You can say whatever you like, but...

何言ってんだろうと思ってるんですけど

I'm wondering what they're talking about.

あれもちょっとダメだなと

That seems a bit off as well.

もうセクハラとかパワハラは

No more sexual harassment or power harassment.

ダイバーシティを語る以前に

Before talking about diversity

人としてやってはいけない

Things that should not be done as a human.

だから私結構提案はしてるんですけども

So I’m actually making quite a few suggestions.

なかなかあれですけれども

It's quite something, isn't it?

取り入れるのは難しいかもしれないですけども

It might be difficult to incorporate.

やはり人事評価の中に

As expected, within the performance evaluation.

そういうこともセクハラパワハラはもちろん

That's what sexual harassment and power harassment are, of course.

やってないよねみたいなことも含めて

Including things like "you haven't done it, have you?"

より重要なのはやはり

What is more important is indeed

セクハラシティDIみたいな観点から

From the perspective of something like "Sexual Harassment City DI"

この人はちゃんとわかってますか

Does this person really understand?

やってますかみたいなのを

Are you doing that kind of thing?

ちゃんと入れ込まないと

You have to put it in properly.

これやっちゃったら

If I do this...

出世できないんだっていう状況を

The situation where I can't get promoted.

作っていくと

As you create it.

いいんじゃないかなということで

I think it's okay.

提言はさせていただいてますけどね

I am making some suggestions, though.

なかなかその人事評価のシステムを

It's quite difficult to understand the personnel evaluation system.

変えるのは難しいみたいですね

It seems that changing it is difficult.

ですけどやっぱりそうしないと

But still, if I don't do that...

もしかすると

Perhaps.

特に今過渡期だと思ってるんですけど

I think we're in a transitional period right now, especially.

過渡期で会ってほしいですねこの状況

I want to meet during this transitional period, this situation.

変わらないと

It won't change.

変わらないんじゃないかなと思ってます

I think it won't change.

あと結構あるのが

What I have left is quite a bit.

自費的差別っていう言葉を

The term "self-funded discrimination."

私この前初めて聞いた

I heard this for the first time the other day.

自費的差別すごいなと思ったのは

I thought the difference in out-of-pocket expenses was really remarkable.

私もあったんですけれども

I also had it, you know.

いわゆる同調アースクールの中で

In what is known as a "synchronous earth school."

男性が上手なことが多いですけども

Men are often good at it.

その人が例えば

For example, that person.

女性が妊娠した時に

When a woman becomes pregnant.

お子さんもいるから大変でしょって

It must be tough because you have kids, right?

ちょっと残業のない

A little overtime-free.

休んでいいよみたいな感じ

It feels like it's okay to take a break.

に移動させようとしたりとか

"Trying to move it."

ですね

That's right.

私もありました

I had it too.

プロモーションするかしないかの時に

When it comes to whether or not to promote.

上司の方がこれ以上大変になると

If it gets any more difficult for my boss...

あなたが大変すぎて

You are too much.

仕事を辞めてしまうんじゃないかと思って

I think you might quit your job.

心配だって言われたので

I was told that you are worried.

でもその時に本当に

But at that time, really...

私のことを気遣っていただいて

Thank you for your concern for me.

ありがたいんですけれども

I appreciate it, but...

それって私が決めることであって

That's something I decide.

なんとか部長が決めることではないですよね

It's not something that the department head should decide, is it?

ってお話をしたら

When I mentioned that話をしたら,

その方本当にやっぱり賢い方だったんで

That person was really quite wise after all.

瞬時に分かっていただいて

Thank you for understanding instantly.

ごめん

I'm sorry.

体調的に休みたい人もいるし

There are people who want to take a break for health reasons.

それでも

Even so

頑張りたい人もいるから

Because there are people who want to do their best.

そこをきちんと

Please take care of that properly.

ヒアリングしてあげないといけない

I need to do some hearing (listening).

子育てのサポートの状況も

The situation regarding support for child-rearing as well.

今ずいぶん保育園も多くなって

There are now quite a few nurseries.

大丈夫になってきつつ

I’m starting to feel okay.

あるとは思いますけど

I think there is.

昔に比べたらですね

Compared to the past, you know.

だけど本当に個々によって違うので

But it really differs from person to person.

思うばかりやってあげることを

I can only do what I think.

自費的差別って言うそうなんですね

It's said to be called self-funded discrimination.

そういうのもすごくやっぱり

Things like that are really amazing, after all.

思うばかりというのに

Even though I keep thinking about it.

見せかけてる可能性もありますもんね

There is also the possibility that they are just putting on a facade.

そこのところは

About that part.

深いです

It's deep.

深いですね

It's deep, isn't it?

ちょっとあえて言及はしませんけれども

I won't specifically mention it, but...

日曜日の朝では足りないかもしれないですね

Sunday morning might not be enough.

ちょっと別番組を使っていただいたほうが

It would be better to use a different program.

いいかもしれないです

It might be good.

夜に延長しないと

I have to extend it until nighttime.

そうだからそういうのもあって

That's why there are things like that.

やっぱりこう

As I thought, this is it.

でもこれも

But this too.

同調圧力の中でのことですよね

It's about being under peer pressure, isn't it?

だって大変でしょっていうことで

Because it's tough, right?

うちの神さんも大変だもんって

My wife has it tough too.

本当にありがとうございます

Thank you very much.

思うばかりやっていただいて

I can only think of doing my best.

っていう感じなんですけど

It's like that, you know?

この前ちょっと講演をさせていただいたことがあって

I had the opportunity to give a presentation the other day.

自分の使っている部下の方が

My subordinate that I am using.

すごく大変で

It's really tough.

すごく優秀な女性がいるんだけど

There's an incredibly talented woman.

子供が小さいから

Because the child is small.

しょっちゅう熱を出すので

Because I often have a fever.

休まれて

Please take a break.

周りの人が文句言われて

People around are being complained about.

僕は間に立たされて大変です

I'm having a hard time being caught in the middle.

っていうふうにおっしゃったので

You said it like that, so...

そのお子さん何歳ですかって言ったら

When I asked how old that child is…

5歳ですっておっしゃったんで

You said you're 5 years old.

あと2年ですね

Just two more years, huh?

あと2年もすれば

In another two years.

子供も小学校に入る頃になると

When children start entering elementary school,

なかなか熱も出さなくなるので

It becomes harder to get a fever.

あと数年ですから

It's just a few more years.

周りの方に

To those around you

あと数年だから

It's just a few more years.

一緒にみんなで頑張ってサポートしてあげようよって

Let's all work hard together and support each other.

社長が言ってくださいと

The president asked me to say it.

そしたら

Then.

その社長が

That president.

子供って7歳になると熱出さないんですかっておっしゃったんで

You asked if children don't get fevers once they turn 7 years old.

お子さんいらっしゃるんですかって言ったら

When I asked if you have children...

2人息子がいます

I have two sons.

奥さんに今日帰ったら本当にお礼を言ってください

Please make sure to thank your wife when you get home today.

子供が7歳になると熱を出さない

When a child turns 7, they no longer get fevers.

18歳になると熱を出さなくなることを知らないで

Not knowing that you stop getting fevers when you turn 18.

あなたはここまで来たわけだから

Since you've come this far,

それは奥様に本当に

That is truly for your wife.

謝ってお礼を言っていただきたいですって

I would like you to apologize and express your gratitude.

キョトーンとされてましたけど

You looked taken aback, didn't you?

そういう子供がいる人は

Those who have such children

休むからダメみたいな

It seems that taking a break is not allowed.

これも同調圧力ですよね

This is also peer pressure, isn't it?

そういうのが

That's the kind of thing.

プリベイリングだと

It's pre-bailing.

まん延してると

If it's spreading.

なかなか難しいんだと思います

I think it's quite difficult.

子供は

The child is.

5歳以下は熱を

Children under 5 years old should have a fever.

出すのが仕事ですから

It's my job to put it out.

会社に行く前に

Before going to work.

新聞読むのと同じくらいに

As much as reading a newspaper.

親が仕事で忙しい時に限って

It's just when my parents are busy with work.

熱を出してくださるという

They say they will produce a fever.

大事なプレゼンの日に限って

Especially on important presentation days.

熱が出るとか

It feels like a fever.

私も出張に行く

I will go on a business trip too.

3日前に子供が入院したことがありました

Three days ago, my child was admitted to the hospital.

出張取り消してた

I canceled the business trip.

大変だったんですけど

It was tough, but...

てんてこまいですね

It's a complete mess, isn't it?

てんてこまいです

I'm in a tizzy.

でもそういうのを乗り越えていくと

But when you overcome things like that...

だんだん強くなってくるみたいな

It feels like it's gradually getting stronger.

今後ですね

In the future, you see.

ダイバーシティっていうのは

Diversity is...

進めていきたい

I want to move forward.

僕ら投資家サイドも

We on the investor side also...

やっぱりダイバーシティがないと

After all, without diversity...

やっぱ会社ってリスクは取れない

After all, a company can't take risks.

というふうに思うんですね

I think of it that way.

なのでやっぱりダイバーシティがないと

So, after all, without diversity...

良くないと

It's not good.

企業の成長に

For the growth of the company.

マイナスになるかもしれない

It might become negative.

というところがあって

There is such a thing.

現場でダイバーシティっていうのは

Diversity in the workplace is

いろいろお話しした中で

In the course of various conversations

一つ挙げると

To give one example,

何が一番大事になるんですかね

What is the most important thing, I wonder?

経営人が

Management.

幹部の方が会社のデッションメイキングを

The executives are responsible for the company's decision-making.

する方が

It is better to do.

マシコ役員も含めてだと思いますけれども

I think it includes the Masiko executives as well.

ダイバーシティをちゃんとやらないと

We need to properly implement diversity.

会社は沈むんだということを

The company is going to sink.

頃から認識していただくことだと思います

I think it is important to recognize from that time.

それは事実ですし

That is a fact.

それに

Moreover,

もしやらないと

If you don't do it...

今まで来たら

If you've come this far.

それは今までがラッキーなだけで

It's just that up until now, it's been lucky.

だけど

But

日本の企業の存在価値が

The value of existence of Japanese companies is

グローバルの中で

In the global context

圧倒的に低下したことを含めると

Including the overwhelming decline.

失敗した結果

The result of failure.

いわゆる失敗の本質

The essence of so-called failure.

失敗の本質

The essence of failure.

ダイバーシティ版みたいな形で

In the form of a diversity edition.

企業の競争力を失われたのは

The company has lost its competitiveness.

そこにあるということを

The fact that it exists there.

心から認識していただき

Thank you for recognizing it from the heart.

いわゆる人的資本経営ですかね

I suppose it's what you call human capital management.

どんどん人口が下がっていく中で

As the population continues to decline.

どうやって

How to do it?

それぞれの人が生産性を上げるのか

How each person can increase their productivity.

そこには

There is/are.

D&Iしかないと思っているので

I believe there is only D&I.

そこを認識して

Recognize that.

人事部マターじゃないんですよね

It's not a matter for the HR department, is it?

経営マターなんだということを

It's a matter of management.

心から認識していただく

To recognize from the heart.

それを幹部一同

All the executives.

全部分からせるということに

To make everything understood.

尽きるんじゃないかなと思うんですけど

I think it might run out.

ここ今収録している

I'm recording here now.

インターFMでも

On InterFM as well.

隣がワコールという会社があって

Next to us, there is a company called Wacoal.

ワコールって

What is Wacoal?

僕が言うのもなんですけれども

I shouldn't be the one to say this, but...

女性の下着のブランドなんですけれども

It's a brand of women's underwear.

経営人ってみんな

Everyone in management.

男性なんですよね

It's a man, isn't it?

なんで?

Why?

私も不思議に思いました

I also found it strange.

女性で社外役とか

Like a female outside director.

想像してちょっと不思議ですよね

It's a little strange to imagine, isn't it?

その厄介どうやってんだろうなっていうか

I wonder how they're dealing with that hassle.

分かんないですけど

I don’t know, though.

どういうことを想像しながら

What kind of things are you imagining?

商品とか?

Is it about products?

議論っていうのがされてるのかなっていうのは

I wonder if a discussion is taking place.

今月の新商品は?みたいな感じになっちゃう

This month’s new products are kind of like that.

もちろん現場の声が

Of course, the voice from the field is...

女性でそれを吸い上げて

A woman will suck it up.

それで判断したっていうことも

That's something I judged based on that.

あるかもしれないですけれども

It might exist, but...

僕は思うので

I think so.

こういうのもちょっと

This kind of thing is a bit...

投資家目線で言わせていただくと

From an investor's perspective, I would like to say that...

面白いなとはいつも思います

I always think it's interesting.

投資家は必ずしも

Investors are not necessarily

日本企業に投資しなくていいし

You don't have to invest in Japanese companies.

あなたの会社に投資しなくていいんですと

You don't have to invest in your company.

キャピタルマーケットから見て

From the perspective of the capital markets.

どう見えるかっていうのを

How it looks.

もっと意識していただくっていうのも

It would also mean being more aware.

今以上にですね

More than now.

すごい重要なポイントで

It's a very important point.

そこにやはりそういう視点は必ず入ってくるんですよね

That perspective definitely comes into play there.

売買指定に関しての視点は

The perspective regarding trading designation is

だからまた話が変わっちゃうかもしれませんけど

So the topic might change again, but...

やっぱ上場してることの意味とかね

After all, the significance of being listed, you know.

上場会社についてはですけど

It's about listed companies.

それも本当によくよく考えていただく

Please think about that very carefully.

別にこの株持たなくていいのよ

You don't have to hold this stock, you know.

投資家からしたらというところを

From the perspective of an investor...

やっぱり考えていただきたいなと思いますし

I would really like you to think about it.

考えていただいてるんでしょうけど

I know you're considering it, but...

あと最近もう一つあると思うのが

I think there's one more thing recently.

僕らも投資する前に

Before we invest as well

就職口コミサイトとかで

On job review sites, etc.

参加してるんですよ

I am participating.

オープンワークスとか

OpenWorks and so on.

っていうところがあったりするんですけれども

There are times when that happens, but...

そこにはやっぱり

There it is after all.

辞めていく人のネガティブ評価とか

Negative evaluations of people who are leaving.

ありがちだとは思うんですけれども

I think it's quite common, but...

そのフィルターを外した上でも

Even after removing that filter.

やっぱり

As expected.

いろんな項目があって

There are various items.

働きやすさ

Ease of working

辞めた理由

Reason for quitting.

企業経営に対しての提言とか

Suggestions for corporate management.

今までなかったような情報が

Information that has never existed before.

結構たくさん載ってて

There are quite a lot of them.

その中でもやっぱり

Among them, after all...

女性の働きやすさですとか

Regarding the ease of working for women, etc.

キャリアとかも書いてあって

It also mentions the career.

すごい面白い

Incredibly interesting.

女性にとって働きやすい会社は

A company that is easy for women to work in.

同じく男性にとっても

For men as well

働きやすい会社だと思いますし

I think it's a company that is easy to work for.

間違いないと思います

I think there is no doubt about it.