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Welcome to another episode of IESP. My name is Lutostański Bartosz and we are Dobra 55 recording this latest episode on one of the most interesting subjects ever, adaptations and my guest today is Dr. Lucyna Krawczyk-Żywko. Hello Lucyna.

Hello. How are you doing today? Great, thank you. Are presents bought already for Christmas? Yeah, of course. Really? Of course. Do you do that early? Yeah, to avoid the hectic atmosphere just before Christmas. It's very reasonable. It is. I wish I could take it into account one of these years. Try it next year. Maybe, maybe.

The thing is that I have lists of presents ready like in November and I promised myself

The thing is that I have lists of gifts ready since November and I promised myself.

every year that it's time to buy the presents right now. But then I sort of procrastinate and now it's the middle of December and I have nothing yet. So it's a, it's a thing. Sorry for this. So Lucyna Krawczyk-Żywko is an expert in adaptation and adaptation studies. Her current, her current research is into the Victorian era, so-called neo-Victorianism and I will ask her about what this

Every year when it's time to buy presents, I procrastinate, and now it's the middle of December and I have nothing yet. So it's a thing. Sorry for this. Lucyna Krawczyk-Żywko is an expert in adaptation and adaptation studies. Her current research focuses on the Victorian era, so-called neo-Victorianism, and I will ask her about what this entails.

is in a second. Her most or particular interest is in Victorian villains and detectives, historic and fictional in popular culture such as Sherlock Holmes and Jack the Ripper. Okay, Lucyna, my question is, the first question is, what is an adaptation? How would you define it as a, as an expert in these things?

is in a second. Her main or particular interest lies in Victorian villains and detectives, both historic and fictional in popular culture, such as Sherlock Holmes and Jack the Ripper. Okay, Lucyna, my question is, the first question is, what is an adaptation? How would you define it as an expert in these matters?

I wouldn't like to define it actually.

Many scholars now are trying to not define what adaptation or adaptation studies is. It's very broad. I think there's no point arguing about terminology. I think that it's more interesting to unpack what is being rewritten, what is being adapted, how it's being done, what does it say about us? Because after all, whenever we adapt, we bring something new.

Many scholars now are trying not to define what adaptation or adaptation studies are. It's very broad. I think there's no point in arguing about terminology. I think it's more interesting to unpack what is being rewritten, what is being adapted, how it's being done, and what it says about us. Because after all, whenever we adapt, we bring something new.

Yeah.

So we address contemporary preoccupations, things that matter to us and it doesn't matter whether we dress it up as an adaptation or we transport it into the future as a science fiction text or into the past and turn it into a historical novel. It's generally about us.

So we address contemporary preoccupations, things that matter to us, and it doesn't matter whether we frame it as an adaptation or transport it into the future as a science fiction text, or into the past and turn it into a historical novel. It's generally about us.

So, so basically adaptation studies is not really about defining adaptation anymore, right?

But into the...

Ale do...

The procedures of turning one thing into another, like a novel into a movie.

Adaptation is the thing that's the text, but also adaptation is a process. So it's worth examining how, the how of it.

Adaptacja to coś, co jest tekstem, ale także adaptacja to proces. Dlatego warto zbadać, jak to się dzieje.

How does it happen, this process, right? Exactly. So how does it happen? I mean, if I think we all know,

um, like we all, um,

Um, like we all, um,

know, have some experience with adaptations, like, you know, we watch, you know, films and TV series based on that novel or another, or play, uh, that one or another.

I know, I have some experience with adaptations, like, you know, we watch, you know, films and TV series based on that novel or another, or play, uh, that one or another.

Um, but as you said, it's a process and I presume it's a very complicated process, right?

Um, why do we do it then? Why, why do we engage in such a, you know, tiresome, taxing,

process?

Ah, why would it be tiresome?

No, because you have to translate all those bits of, you know, characters, uh, setting from, from words, right? From, from written words into some images.

And how do you do that when, for example, a, a novel skips a scene and you seem that it's so important that you have to include it, but you don't know how, you know, these, these things happen, right?

And how do you do that when, for example, a novel skips a scene and you feel that it's so important that you have to include it, but you don't know how, you know, these things happen, right?

They do.

Oni to robią.

But, um, I think we shouldn't be preoccupied.

Ale, um, myślę, że nie powinniśmy być zbyt zajęci.

Um, I think we shouldn't be preoccupied.

Um, I think we shouldn't be overly concerned.

With the question of fidelity and what's, um, what's omitted and what's not, uh, this is, again, something that's been more or less done when it comes to adaptation studies.

Um, but I still, uh, hear students complaining when we discuss adaptations, uh, for example, that, uh, it was completely different, that the book was better.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's the most, uh, the most, uh, the most frequent complaint, right?

Oh, tak, tak, tak, tak, to jest najczęstsza, uh, najczęstsza, uh, najczęstsza skarga, prawda?

It still is.

The book was better.

Yes.

And I'm, I'm against this approach.

Um, I understand that we love the characters that we co-create because when we read, uh, the character speaks, sounds, looks the way we want the character.

Because we do have the description.

Ponieważ mamy opis.

Yeah.

True.

But the way we picture is part of the story.

Ale sposób, w jaki to sobie wyobrażamy, jest częścią opowieści.

And, um, we may feel somehow, um, uncomfortable.

I, um, we might feel somehow, um, uncomfortable.

Yeah.

I don't want to say offended, but, um, we don't accept someone else's version of our character, right?

So I think that the majority of those complaints that, um, it wasn't like that in the book are actually comments on it wasn't like that in my adaptation of the book, my version of the book, right?

And adaptation doesn't need to be page to screen.

And adaptation doesn't have to be page to screen.

Uh, we've got so many possibilities.

Uh, mamy tyle możliwości.

And, um.

Sure, sure.

Pewnie, pewnie.

Uh, again, this is something that.

Uh, this is something that has been, uh, discussed by adaptation scholars.

Uh, to jest coś, co było, uh, omawiane przez naukowców zajmujących się adaptacją.

Uh, Linda Hatchen in her book, for example, talked about, uh, the Victorians who adapted everything in all possible directions.

Mm-hmm.

Uh, poem into.

Didn't they?

Czyż nie?

Play, painting, um, and whatnot.

Play, painting, um, and things like that.

So.

They were adapting painting into.

Poems into paintings, for example.

Oh, all right.

Oh, w porządku.

So, you know, you, you may say that it's an illustration.

So, you know, you might say that it's an illustration.

Wow.

But actually.

Ale właściwie.

It's an adaptation, right?

To jest adaptacja, prawda?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Because we do get to see the character caught in a particular moment.

Um.

Yeah.

So, you know, from that to moving pictures.

It's just.

Fascinating.

Fascynujące.

Very quick stuff.

Bardzo szybkie sprawy.

Fascinating.

Fascynujące.

Well, speaking of Victorians, uh, and Victorianism, um, you are the neo-Victorianist.

Um, what is this part of the humanities of, uh, of English studies that you're doing?

Uh, you could say that it's a subgenre of, uh, various adaptations of history.

Uh, można powiedzieć, że to podgatunek, uh, różnych adaptacji historii.

Um, because we, uh, we, neo-Victorianists, sorry, neo-Victorianists look at, um, the way, uh, we adapt, uh, the Victorian era, which, again, itself is a very broad umbrella term.

Um, because we, uh, we, neo-Victorians, sorry, neo-Victorians look at, um, the way, uh, we adapt, uh, the Victorian era, which, again, itself is a very broad umbrella term.

And, um, I caution against, uh, saying that the Victorians were like this or were like that.

I, um, caution against, uh, saying that the Victorians were like this or were like that.

If we think of a period that lasted so long.

Um.

And especially.

If we think about the long 19th century.

So from the industrial revolution to the great, uh, war, as it was called at the time.

Um.

So in our terminology, the First World War.

Um.

It, it's not a unified period.

It is not a unified period.

And, um, neo-Victorianism, um, uh, mostly is attempting to give voice, let's say, to those who did not have the voice in the mainstream culture.

So we get a lot of characters who.

Um.

Um, um, um, we're ignored, uh, marginalized, um, and now we bring them to life.

But sometimes you also exploit them.

Ale czasami też je wykorzystujesz.

So.

Mm-hmm.

You know, different things happen.

So how is, um, Sherlock Holmes exploded these days?

So how is, um, Sherlock Holmes doing these days?

Or, or is he?

Maybe he's not.

Może nie jest.

Uh, um, Sherlock Holmes is, um, interesting character because we think that, uh, well,

Uh, um, Sherlock Holmes is, um, an interesting character because we think that, uh, well,

Sherlock Holmes was an extraordinary character.

Sherlock Holmes był niezwykłą postacią.

Sure, I'm a big fan of Sherlock Holmes.

Oczywiście, jestem dużym fanem Sherlocka Holmesa.

I find him a great character.

Um.

But we also have, um, um, a few very interesting heroes.

Ale mamy też, um, um, kilku bardzo interesujących bohaterów.

Um.

We have, um, the Psi or the Psi.

Um.

Uh.

Um.

No.

Hmm.

Uh.

Um.

ale, no, Cheryl Combs jest dla nas, i właściwie od sierpnia ostatniego roku,

but, well, Cheryl Combs is for us, and actually since August of last year,

oficjalnie robi to, bo przez jakiś czas,

officially does it because for some time,

pewne historie są wciąż, nie są z kopii, w Stanach Zjednoczonych.

Certain stories are still not from copies in the United States.

I od 1 sierpnia wszystko jest w domenie publicznym,

And since August 1st, everything is in the public domain.

więc oficjalnie wszystko może być zrobione do charakteru,

so officially everything can be done to character,

ale powinniśmy wrócić do kreatora Cheryl Combs

but we should go back to the creator Cheryl Combs

i tego bardzo często zapisanego piosenka,

and this very often written song,

kiedy aktor, który też napisał, ale też napisał

when the actor who also wrote, but also wrote

adaptację, amerykańską wersję sztuki Cheryl Combs,

the adaptation, the American version of the play by Cheryl Combs,

zapytał Conan Doyle, czy mógłby go zmarzyć.

he asked Conan Doyle if he could draw him.

A odpowiedź była – zmaruj go,

And the answer was – smother him.

zrób coś, co ci się podoba.

Do something that you like.

To jest bardzo biedna parafraza.

This is a very poor paraphrase.

Ale to jest jazza, prawda?

But this is jazz, right?

Tak, tak.

Yes, yes.

Tak, i on był w porządku z tym,

Yes, and he was okay with that,

choć nie był wielkim fanem adaptacji,

though he was not a great fan of adaptations,

które nie były zlicenowane,

which were not licensed,

ale to jest osobista historia.

but this is a personal story.

Ale w rzeczywistości, kiedy zdecydował się zabić Cheryl Combs…

But in reality, when he decided to kill Cheryl Combs...

Do zmarzenia wielu.

To the dreaming of many.

Tak, ale w rzeczywistości do szczęścia wielu też,

Yes, but in reality, many also need it for happiness.

ponieważ to jest moment, kiedy

because this is the moment when

zaczął się fan fiction,

the fan fiction has begun,

fan fiction holmejski.

Holmesian fan fiction.

Czy to prawda, że ludzie organizują

Is it true that people organize?

świątynię dla…

the temple for…

Nie słyszałam o świątyni.

I haven't heard about the temple.

Były instancje tych czarnych armbandów

There were instances of those black armbands.

i tak dalej i tak dalej.

and so on and so forth.

Tak.

Yes.

I piosenki, które zostały napisane.

And the songs that have been written.

Rozumiem.

I understand.

Tak.

Yes.

Ale to jest połączenie z fanami, prawda?

But this is a connection with the fans, right?

Tak.

Yes.

Więc możesz powiedzieć, że ten czas,

So you can say that this time,

kiedy…

when…

pomiędzy ostatnim problemem

between the last problem

i podróżą z otwartej domami,

and a journey with open houses,

te lata,

these years,

naprawdę kształtowały

really shaped

fan fiction holmejski.

Holmesian fan fiction.

Ok.

Okay.

I to, co teraz adaptujemy,

And this is what we are now adapting,

jeśli chodzi o Cheryl Combs,

as for Cheryl Combs,

nie jest…

it is not…

Tak, ale jakie są te kontemporane konteksty,

Yes, but what are these contemporary contexts?

w których Cheryl Combs

in which Cheryl Combs

tak mocno

so strongly

się przyda?

will it be useful?

On ma…

He has...

To jest to, co chodzi o charakter,

This is what it’s about character.

że w jakichś czasach

that in some times

się przyda.

it will come in handy.

Mhm.

Wielu ludzi myśli, że BBC…

Many people think that the BBC…

BBC's Sherlock

był pierwszym tekstem,

it was the first text,

który go modernizował.

which modernized it.

Ale jeśli wrócisz do lat 40.,

But if you go back to the 40s,

Mhm.

To była seria

That was a series.

w latach 40.,

in the 1940s,

i Sherlock Holmes walczył z nazistami, więc…

And Sherlock Holmes fought against the Nazis, so…

Wow.

To jest…

This is…

On był zawsze w stanie

He was always able.

przydać się

to come in handy

naszym…

our...

albo,

or,

wiesz…

you know...

Ok.

Okay.

tym czasom,

this time,

ponieważ był bardzo

because he was very

kontemporany.

contemporary.

Był częścią świata,

He was a part of the world,

um,

który był

which was

wyjaśniony

explained

Conanem Doylem,

With Conan Doyle,

a on

and he

był

he was

zareagowanym

reacted

Samem

jako

as

prawdziwy

true

charakter,

character,

z Conanem Doylem jako

as Conan Doyle

literaturysty,

literary scholar,

John Watson jako

John Watson as

odpowiedni

appropriate

nie tylko

not only

narrator,

ale i osoba,

but also a person,

która pisała

who wrote

i publikowała

and published

teksty.

texts.

Więc,

So,

tak,

yes,

można go

you can go

przemieszczać

to move

w XXII wieku,

in the 22nd century,

jak był

how it was

karton

cardboard

w latach 90.,

in the 90s,

skupiony na dzieciach,

focused on the children,

um,

Um,

w XXII wieku.

in the 22nd century.

Możesz

You can.

go

przemieszczać

to move

do

to

jakiego

which

czasu

time

chcesz,

do you want,

gdziekolwiek

wherever

chcesz.

you want.

Więc,

So,

w XXII wieku…

in the 22nd century…

Tak.

Yes.

Co…

What…

Co to

What is this?

ludzie

people

robili,

they did,

a więc,

so,

co to było?

What was that?

To samo,

The same,

rozwiązanie

solution

rozwiązania.

solutions.

Ok, ok.

Okay, okay.

Krim…

W tym

In this

kontekście futurystycznym?

in a futuristic context?

Tak.

Yes.

Wow.

Krim

Crimea

był

was

z nami.

with us.

Tak, tak, tak,

Yes, yes, yes,

to niesamowite.

It's amazing.

I potrzebujemy

And we need

tego,

this,

kogoś,

someone,

kto jest

who is it

w stanie rozwiązać

able to solve

prawie

almost

wszystkie

all

rozwiązania.

solutions.

Tak, tak, tak.

Yes, yes, yes.

I ostatnie pytanie. Jako osoba, która prowadzi studia media,

And one last question. As a person who studies media,

zaznaczyłem wiele razy słowo adaptacja transmedialna.

I marked the term transmedia adaptation many times.

Media jest w dzisiejszych czasach buzzwordem.

Media is a buzzword these days.

Jak użyteczna jest adaptacja studia media?

How useful is the adaptation of media studies?

Może zgadniesz się ze mną, że to jest nowe słowo dla tego, co już wiemy.

Maybe you will agree with me that this is a new word for what we already know.

Absolutnie. Adaptacje transmedialne zostały zrobione.

Absolutely. Transmedia adaptations have been made.

Mówiłam o tym, że pewien charakter istniał np. w XIX wieku

I was saying that a certain character existed, for example, in the 19th century.

na scenie, w połowie, w malarzu.

on stage, in the middle, in the painter.

To też jest przykład tego.

This is also an example of that.

Mamy nowe słowo, ale praktyka nie jest nowa.

We have a new word, but the practice is not new.

Możemy wrócić do XIX wieku, do XVIII wieku.

We can go back to the 19th century, to the 18th century.

Generalnie moment, w którym nasza popularna kultura urodziła się,

Generally, the moment when our popular culture was born,

a nowe media zostały dodane, ponieważ mówimy o

and new media have been added because we are talking about

różnych tekstach w różnych mediach.

various texts in various media.

Powiedziałabym, że media się zmieniają,

I would say that the media are changing,

ale proces adaptacji jest mniej więcej taki sam.

but the adaptation process is more or less the same.

Przestajemy rozwijać świat, który kochamy,

We stop developing the world that we love,

i go kochamy.

We love.

Wiedziałem o tym, że media transmedialne są bezwzględne.

I knew that transmedia media are ruthless.

Nie, nie mówmy o tym.

No, let's not talk about that.

Nie, nie mówimy o tym.

No, we are not talking about that.

Dzięki za to, że pracowałeś ze mną.

Thank you for working with me.

To było piękne.

It was beautiful.

Życzę Ci Wysokiego Wi centrum.

I wish you a High Wi center.

Współpracuję z Tobą.

I am cooperating with you.

I musisz również mi życzyć

And you also have to wish me.

sukcesu w przyszłości.

success in the future.

Do zobaczenia.

See you.

Dzięki za oglądanie!

Thank you for watching!

IESP 016 - In Talk with Lucyna Krawczyk-Żywko on Adaptations Studies and Transmediality