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To be continued...

and presents more opportunities for the artist for such remote collaboration,

and B, as extra programs complementing or, what is more,

и Б, как дополнительные программы, дополняющие или, что более важно,

running in parallel to already established offline residency programs.

And that would be extremely helpful, I must say,

И это было бы чрезвычайно полезно, должен сказать,

because we know that there are many artists who cannot travel and visit, say, Russia,

due to a number of reasons other than the current pandemic.

из-за ряда причин, помимо текущей пандемии.

With all that in mind, we tried to determine which aspects of traditional art residencies can effectively exist online.

Well, financial support of artists to begin with.

Ну, финансовая поддержка художников, для начала.

This is our number one.

Это наш номер один.

And while the experience of being physically present in a new context

and feeling the atmosphere of the place is not possible for the artist online,

networking and professional exchange definitely are.

Networking and professional exchange definitely are.

Artists can socialize and make new connections.

And the privilege...

Verbial Zoom calls, which we are all pretty sick and tired of, I dare say,

are not the only way to do that.

не единственный способ это сделать.

There are some other formats available.

When artists stay in residence, we always introduce them to people,

When artists stay in residence, we always introduce them to people.

show them galleries and museums.

This is a part of a program.

Это часть программы.

And we are sure that this part can easily be done online.

And sometimes it works even better that way,

because we frequently introduce every new artist to the same people and same institutions, you know?

Потому что мы часто представляем каждого нового художника одним и тем же людям и одним и тем же учреждениям, понимаешь?

Therefore,

we can save time here for everyone.

Мы можем сэкономить время здесь для всех.

Let's say we have someone we know working in a gallery or museum,

Let's say we have someone we know working in a gallery or museum.

who meets new artists in residence not every month, but only several times a year.

For instance, now with the online format,

we can arrange a single meeting and invite five or even ten people at once.

We can arrange a single meeting and invite five or even ten people at once.

This is a practice we are planning to keep as part of our offline residencies in future.

Это практика, которую мы планируем сохранить в качестве части наших офлайн-резиденций в будущем.

We plan on introducing artists to local professionals and institutions,

We plan on introducing artists to local professionals and institutions.

via group calls,

через групповые звонки,

and arrange it on Zoom platform beforehand.

и заранее организовать это на платформе Zoom.

So by the time the artists arrive here in Saint Petersburg,

Так что к моменту прихода артистов сюда, в Санкт-Петербург,

they have their minds made up as to where they want to go

They have decided where they want to go.

and who they want to meet again to continue communication.

We want to transfer the introductory part of our residencies online.

That way, everyone saves time.

When I asked artists about residencies,

they were all united in thinking that it would be great to have a test visit

They were all united in thinking that it would be great to have a trial visit.

before the residency term begins, so that they could get an idea of what it's like.

It seems like a sensible mechanism for an offline residency.

That's true, and it did help a lot.

Это правда, и это очень помогло.

Early introductions were always a part of our practice, but they were limited to basic emails.

Essentially, it would be a brief introduction without any extensive correspondence.

But now we do want to take full advantage of it.

Но теперь мы действительно хотим полностью использовать это.

There is an important point to make about providing workspace.

It's tied to the financial aid provided by such programs in some cases.

Это связано с финансовой помощью, предоставляемой такими программами в некоторых случаях.

When we provide financial support, we give an artist not only money, but time.

We give them precious time.

In the online format, we cannot provide artists with space to work,

In the online format, we cannot provide artists with space to work.

but we give them access to our infrastructure.

но мы предоставляем им доступ к нашей инфраструктуре.

And again, the money we give buys them time.

As we develop new programs, we will be able to provide them with space to work.

When we develop new formats, we always do our best to check whether we can help an artist in a foreign country in any way possible.

Maybe we can rent a studio for them, or help them make a research trip somewhere within the confines of current restrictions.

I think this part can easily be done online, too.

Another aspect which I think is actually improved online is the visibility of the artistic process.

Another aspect that I think has actually improved online is the visibility of the artistic process.

We know that artists in a traditional restaurant,

or in a residential area, visit each other and show one another what they are working on.

But they may also choose not to.

Но они также могут решить этого не делать.

It's totally up to them.

Это полностью зависит от них.

When the act of artistic creation is made public,

it gives everyone, total strangers as well as fellow artists,

an opportunity to visit the studio and observe the process.

Many artists admitted that it was a challenge for them to present their work online,

Many artists admitted that it was a challenge for them to present their work online.

to write about it and take pictures of it, among other things.

At the same time it was a huge step in their professional growth,

At the same time, it was a huge step in their professional growth.

because many of them had never documented their work so thoroughly before.

потому что многие из них никогда ранее не документировали свою работу так тщательно.

Is it a sort of psychological therapy for artists?

Is it a type of psychological therapy for artists?

Of course there is a peer support aspect to it.

Of course, there is a peer support aspect to it.

We got together and recognized that all of us ended up in a strange and difficult situation.

We got together and recognized that we all ended up in a strange and difficult situation.

But we didn't have to put our work or our interaction on hold,

Но нам не нужно было ставить нашу работу или наше взаимодействие на паузу,

particularly in the time of strict lockdowns worldwide.

особенно в период строгого локдауна по всему миру.

I recently scrolled down the pages of a journal called,

в первую страницу нашего блога и обрисовал темы, о которых писали артисты.

to the first page of our blog and outlined the topics that the artists wrote about.

Они писали много о жизни и о ситуации в разных местах,

They wrote a lot about life and the situation in different places,

о том, как они лично боролись с новой реальностью и новой нормой.

about how they personally struggled with the new reality and the new normal.

В интервью я спросила датчанинку Марьеллу Венденбергу

In the interview, I asked the Danish woman Marjella Vendenberg.

про опыт, который она получила через программу,

about the experience she gained through the program,

и она ответила с поэтическим описанием.

And she responded with a poetic description.

Во-первых, она чувствовала себя в очень темном углу и не видела пути.

First of all, she felt she was in a very dark corner and couldn't see a way out.

Ничего не работало, все остановилось, и она не знала, что делать.

Nothing was working, everything had stopped, and she didn't know what to do.

Но потом она увидела много других людей в своих собственных темных углах,

But then she saw many other people in their own dark corners,

и она думала, что если они могли быть собраны вместе,

and she thought that if they could be gathered together,

то будет больше света.

there will be more light.

Так что эта интеракция показывает, что,

So this interaction shows that,

независимо от того, как ситуация происходит,

regardless of how the situation unfolds,

мы можем продолжать делать вещи.

We can keep doing things.

Важно отметить чувство коммунизма,

It is important to note the feeling of communism.

коммунизм и профессиональная солидарность.

communism and professional solidarity.

Это очень помогает.

This helps a lot.

Моим вторым гостем сегодня Анна Чифранова,

My second guest today is Anna Chifranova,

ведущая учреждений для иллюстраторов.

leading institutions for illustrators.

И она открыла мне весь новый мир.

And she opened up a whole new world to me.

Я знала только раньше книжных иллюстраторов,

I only knew about book illustrators before.

и не могла понять, почему они нуждаются в учреждениях.

and could not understand why they needed institutions.

Их проекты не специфические,

Their projects are not specific,

поэтому они не должны исследовать любые местные контексты,

therefore they should not explore any local contexts,

и люди.

and people.

Они даже не нуждаются в студиях для массовых канвасов.

They don't even need studios for large canvases.

Они просто иллюстрируют книги.

They simply illustrate books.

Но есть и другие типы иллюстраторов,

But there are other types of illustrators,

у которых работа является реакцией на то,

whose work is a reaction to what,

что происходит вокруг нас.

what is happening around us.

Но как это разнообразно от того,

But how different it is from that,

что делает обычный художник?

What does an ordinary artist do?

Поговорим об этом.

Let's talk about it.

Сначала мы работали над офлайн-проектом.

At first, we worked on an offline project.

Мы хотели использовать формат резиденции.

We wanted to use the residency format.

Мы ожидали микс швейцарских и русских иллюстраторов,

We expected a mix of Swiss and Russian illustrators,

которые сотрудничают друг с другом.

that cooperate with each other.

Мы придумали для них тему,

We came up with a theme for them,

и, наконец,

and, finally,

мы хотели, чтобы они исследовали швейцарские сказки,

we wanted them to explore Swiss fairy tales,

чтобы они могли попробовать найти параллели и различия

so that they can try to find parallels and differences

в фольклоре этих двух культур.

in the folklore of these two cultures.

Однако, когда появилась пандемия,

However, when the pandemic appeared,

мы отключили эту идею.

We dismissed this idea.

В этот момент,

At that moment,

Prokhalvetia предлагала сделать это в онлайне.

Prokhalvetia suggested doing this online.

Итак, наш первый резиденциал был о Zoom.

So, our first residential was about Zoom.

Мы назвали его Windows.

We named it Windows.

Было три швейцарского и три русского иллюстратора.

There were three Swiss and three Russian illustrators.

Все поделились своими мыслями

Everyone shared their thoughts.

и обстоятельствами в связи с пандемией.

and circumstances related to the pandemic.

Так что было шесть рассказов,

So there were six stories,

и каждый резидент должен был изменить каждый из них.

And each resident had to change each of them.

У нас получилось достаточно изменившихся

We ended up with quite a few changes.

для маленького альбома,

for a little album,

и мы даже хотели изменить экспозицию,

and we even wanted to change the exhibition,

но это не получилось из-за пандемии.

but it didn't happen because of the pandemic.

После этого мы решили

After that, we decided.

изменить еще одну швейцарско-русскую коллаборацию в онлайне.

change another Swiss-Russian collaboration online.

Мы попробовали изменить угол

We tried to change the angle.

и хотели исследовать изменившуюся

and wanted to explore the changed

реакцию на мировые события,

reaction to world events,

происходящие в данный момент.

taking place at the moment.

Но в этот раз мы решили

But this time we decided

по-другому.

differently.

Вместо того, чтобы рассказать свои истории,

Instead of telling their stories,

участники обсуждали

the participants discussed

много разных вещей.

many different things.

Каждый сессион имел свой собственный субъект,

Each session had its own subject.

поэтому мы много разговаривали

That's why we talked a lot.

и обращали множество мнений.

and turned to many opinions.

Иллюстраторы, опять же,

Illustrators, again,

предоставили шесть произведений.

provided six works.

В этот раз мы серьезно обсуждаем экспозицию.

This time we are seriously discussing the exposition.

Вы сказали, что они рассказывали истории друг о друге.

You said that they told stories about each other.

Какие истории?

What stories?

Перед резиденцией мы собрали

Before the residence, we gathered.

шесть вопросов для обсуждения.

six questions for discussion.

Иллюстраторам и сенсорщипу,

To illustrators and sensor touch,

в частности, штатам и собственным сенсорщипом.

In particular, to the states and its own sensor chip.

Интересно, что сенсорщип

It's interesting that the sensor is touched.

был основным целью

was the main goal

всей обсуждения,

of the entire discussion,

потому что сенсорщип

because of the sensor touch

очень важен для иллюстраторов.

very important for illustrators.

Например, мы обсуждали,

For example, we discussed,

как сенсорщип работает

how the sensor chip works

для решения, скажем,

for the solution, let's say,

сексуальных проблем.

sexual problems.

В итоге мы узнали, что, например,

In the end, we learned that, for example,

если есть книга о возрасте девушки,

if there is a book about a girl's age,

тому нормально, чтобы ее изменили женщине.

It's normal for him to be unfaithful to a woman.

Вопрос здесь в том,

The question here is,

Мы не можем illustrat stories about girls coming of age.

We cannot illustrate stories about girls coming of age.

That's a problem.

Это проблема.

Girls, for their part, can't really illustrate books about boys' problems,

Girls, for their part, can't really illustrate books about boys' problems.

which they do when they have their coming of age.

что они делают, когда достигают совершеннолетия.

This means that we think we're free, but in reality we're not so free.

Это означает, что мы думаем, что мы свободны, но на самом деле мы не так уж и свободны.

And that's okay.

И это нормально.

We also discussed ethical boundaries and civic stances,

We also discussed ethical boundaries and civic stances.

the ways an illustrator can influence the world with their work.

New media, the merging of digital and analog illustrations was yet another topic.

To what extent can social media shape illustrations?

Does an illustrator intentionally create a square image

Does an illustrator intentionally create a square image?

so they could post it on Instagram later and get likes?

And, as a matter of fact,

how does this whole Internet approval system affect illustrators?

How does this entire Internet approval system affect illustrators?

Financial context was still another subject.

The financial context was yet another topic.

What do illustrators live on, and how does money shape their art?

In fact, we brought together not two, but three worlds.

Along with the Swiss and Russians,

we also have the French,

мы также имеем французов,

who had Belarusian participants,

so they all had things to discuss.

Age-wise, they were both experienced, grown-up illustrators

Age-wise, they were both experienced, mature illustrators.

and people who had just graduated,

и люди, которые только что выпустились,

but had already achieved some things as artists.

но уже достигли некоторых вещей как артисты.

Listening to you, I could no longer understand the difference

Listening to you, I could no longer understand the difference.

between an illustrator and an ordinary artist.

Previously, I thought that illustrators worked with a text,

Previously, I thought that illustrators worked with text,

one way or another.

They can depict it literally, comment on it,

or suggest their own interpretation

that runs counter to the text.

Anything like that.

Ничего подобного.

But if an illustrator makes statements

Но если иллюстратор делает заявления

about relevant political context or gender issues,

о релевантном политическом контексте или гендерных вопросах,

how is their work different from any other artist's?

How is their work different from that of any other artist?

We have a discussion, which means we do have a text.

Maybe it is neither written nor printed, but it exists.

We exchange views on it.

Here's how illustrators typically work with a text.

They read it, note some key moments they will want to illustrate,

They read it, note some key moments they want to illustrate,

and proceed to do it.

и продолжай это делать.

It's the same with us.

We had a spoken text.

Everyone took note of what was significant for them

Everyone took note of what was important to them.

and illustrated it.

и проиллюстрировал это.

The basic mechanism is the same.

As for artists, I think they are guided more by feelings than texts.

As for artists, I think they are guided more by feelings than by texts.

It's curious, because in a world where post-structuralists

have had their say, and basically everything is a text,

even our life is a text,

one way or another, particularly in the world of contemporary art,

we work with a text,

perhaps the format is relevant.

Perhaps the format is relevant.

Illustrations are confined to paper or a screen,

but they are going to evolve.

но они собираются эволюционировать.

We should appreciate illustrators and their art more.

It's an evolving art.

Это развивающееся искусство.

Not too long ago, this was a niche subject,

Not too long ago, this was a niche subject.

because everyone thought that illustrators just draw pictures and nothing more.

But when you take a closer look at their work,

Но когда вы仔细 посмотрите на их работу,

you can see what is going on there,

and you realize its profound effect and importance.

Correct me if I'm wrong,

but illustrators' work involves clients.

Но работа иллюстраторов включает в себя клиентов.

Doesn't that put further restrictions

Doesn't that impose further restrictions?

on statements about political, social, gender,

and other relevant issues?

и другие актуальные вопросы?

The question is, who's the client?

The person who pays?

Or can you be your own client?

If you are your own client and you post your work on Instagram,

of course you can do anything.

Of course, you can do anything.

But in that case, you are just an artist.

Но в этом случае ты просто художник.

But if you have an order,

Но если у вас есть заказ,

and you are tasked with illustrating an ad, for instance,

и вам поручено иллюстрировать рекламу, например,

then there is someone who pays,

and they might not be happy to see any complex statements there.

И они могут не быть счастливы видеть там какие-либо сложные утверждения.

It's not like there are illustrators that draw kittens in the morning

It's not like there are illustrators who draw kittens in the morning.

and blood and guts in the evening.

и кровь и кишки вечером.

Serious illustrators have their own sensibility and style.

So a client must understand

So a client must understand.

that a certain illustrator will work in a certain manner.

They won't draw cute things for you if they don't do cute in principle.

They won't draw cute things for you if they don't do cute things in principle.

You can't force them.

However, a problem Russian illustrators have

is that clients will often ask them

что клиенты часто будут их спрашивать

whether they can imitate a style.

Because of the overall financial situation and low rates,

Из-за общей финансовой ситуации и низких ставок,

some illustrators have to take those jobs.

Некоторым иллюстраторам нужно брать такие работы.

Others say, no, I can do it only in my own style.

Others say, no, I can do it only in my own way.

How do they make a living?

Some give classes. It depends.

Некоторые дают занятия. Это зависит.

You said that the Swiss talked about the impossibility

You said that the Swiss talked about the impossibility.

of making a living as an illustrator.

What did they say when Russians and Belarusians

What did they say when Russians and Belarusians?

talked politics and other issues?

discussed politics and other issues?

They listened with their mouths open.

They walked on thin ice there.

It was a Swiss Russian residency,

It was a Swiss Russian residency.

so Belarusians had a lot to say.

So Belarusians had a lot to say.

We had to make sure everyone had a chance to speak.

The Swiss were astonished to hear about political censorship.

They didn't believe such a thing was possible.

The first mutual surprise was when they discussed censorship

The first mutual surprise was when they discussed censorship.

and self-censorship.

и самоцензура.

The Swiss illustrators said that they only censored themselves

The Swiss illustrators said that they only censored themselves.

for the sake of not hurting people they cared about.

for the sake of not hurting the people they cared about.

They based their work on people from their own lives.

And sometimes they censored themselves

И иногда они самоцензурировались.

and sometimes they sand the edges off so no one is hurt.

и иногда они обрабатывают края, чтобы никто не поранился.

But not doing something out of fear of prison,

Но не делать что-то из страха тюрьмы,

that was a real eye-opener to them.

that was a real eye-opener for them.

That's the point of having residencies.

Вот в чём суть наличия резиденций.

People meet and reveal new things to one another,

asking, can it be this way?

Asking, can it be this way?

Does it happen this way?

Is it happening now?

And my last question is about the online format itself.

I realize that under the circumstances

I realize that under the circumstances.

you didn't have many options.

You didn't have many options.

People wanted to keep in touch any way they could.

People wanted to keep in touch in any way they could.

And they did.

И они сделали.

But if the situation goes back to normal,

But if the situation returns to normal,

will you keep this format for your residencies?

Will you keep this format for your residencies?

Or is real-life communication always more preferable?

Certainly nothing can replace real-life communication.

Certainly, nothing can replace real-life communication.

But having it online is also important

Но наличие этого в интернете также важно.

and it can be interesting.

Online exhibitions definitely get a no from me.

They are meaningless.

Они бессмысленны.

But the online format is very useful for communication

Но онлайн-формат очень полезен для общения.

and we shouldn't discard it.

It keeps cultural exchange and discussion alive.

I saw with my own eyes how surprised people were

I saw with my own eyes how surprised people were.

as their worlds collided.

It was amazing.

It's not something that ordinarily happens.

Это не то, что обычно происходит.

That's the point of having a residency.

Вот в чем суть наличия резиденции.

This podcast about online residencies

This podcast is about online residencies.

is the sixth and final one in our series.

является шестым и заключительным в нашей серии.

Looking back, I realized that the things I could say

about residencies apply to all fast-forward projects.

About residencies apply to all fast-forward projects.

All these projects involve artists, curators,

and musicians proposing temporary solutions

и музыканты, предлагающие временные решения

that would be relevant to the pandemic environment

but no longer required once we go back to normal,

но больше не требуется, когда мы вернемся к норме,

to the good old days when we could fly anywhere

and had no problems.

и не имел никаких проблем.

That's how it seems now, but it's not true.

Вот так это кажется сейчас, но это не так.

The old days were neither easy, nor smooth, nor cushy.

And looking at all these projects,

I realize that they are not about temporary solutions.

The artists used digital space

The artists used digital space.

to create their own small universes.

And they weren't trying to just hang in there

And they weren't trying to just hold on.

until everything went back to normal.

до тех пор, пока всё не вернулось на свои места.

They thought about what all of us wanted to happen next

They considered what all of us wanted to happen next.

and how we wanted it to happen.

This podcast featured Anastasia Patsay,

This podcast featured Anastasia Patsay.

Anna Chifranova, and me, Alina Streltsova.

Anna Chifranova, and I, Alina Streltsova.

Thank you for listening to us.

CULTURAL EXCHANGE: IN SEARCH OF NEW FORMATS. Episode 6. Talk with Anastasia Patsey and Anna Chefranova, online-residencies.